Sales As A Service

[Vilox]

I recently overcame my fear of cold calling and earned quite a bit of money in the process. Long story short, I decided to take the plunge and get some 'real' entrepreneurial experience.

I was thinking of something along the lines of 'Sales As A Service'. I got the idea because a lot of people asked me to do sales for them. And since I'm just starting out, I'd like to focus on what I already know: selling websites on the upper end of the spectrum through cold calling.

I'm aware that cold calling isn't the most efficient way of going about things. But here's why I'm a fan:

It works
Yes, fancy technology has changed the purchasing behavior of people. That being said, the fundamentals of salesmanship that worked 100 years ago work just as well today, and will keep working in the future.

Choose your customers
With outbound sales I can pick a target and go for it. Inbound sales is more like hanging a fishing rod in the water and hoping that the fish you desire will bite.

Immediate results
Cold calling doesn't take time to build up. Especially in the early stages you can achieve rapid growth by picking up the phone.

Higher level of engagement
"People buy from people, not companies". Not sure where I heard that, but it stuck. There is nothing more powerful than a human one-on-one interaction when it comes to engaging with your customer. Every other method pales in comparison if you want to impact individual buyers.
Credit to Steli Efti. Thanks, man!​

I realize that this isn't a Fastlane project per se, and it isn't meant to be. Instead I see it as an opportunity to learn more about sales. Whether it's dating, making friends or making money, I truly believe that sales is one of the most transferable and valuable skills to have.

I know for certain that the idea works; at least on a small scale. I already registered a company and semi-automated the process of generating qualified leads, which should save me a lot of time. That doesn't change the fact that I have no idea what I'm doing, though. Ironically enough, I can get clients through cold calling. But when should I make my first hire? What CRM should I get? There are a ton of questions I don't have an answer to. And that's okay. I'll figure things out as I go.

With this thread I'd like to keep you posted on my current progress, and to share whatever I feel is valuable. Feedback on how I'm doing is always appreciated. Updates aren't on a fixed schedule, but I aim to make reading them worth your while.

Thanks!

 

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[The-J]

@Andy Black @Tweeve11

AndyTalks with @Tweeve11 about generating web design leads and business learnings

Check out this call; there's another forum member doing what you do but on the other side of the world.

His marketplace ad is somewhere there as well.

Good luck.

 

[Andy Black]

This will be interesting... especially if you're as relentless as you were in your other progress thread:

• GOLD - Getting Rid of Cold Calling Anxiety Using Brute Force

 

[Echizen]

I read your other thread and I'm wondering why you don't learn to create the websites by yourself ? It could take you 1 or 2 days do learn enough and then improve while working for the customers you get. You'll earn more money. Don't you think ?

 

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[Andy Black]

I read your other thread and I'm wondering why you don't learn to create the websites by yourself ? It could take you 1 or 2 days do learn enough and then improve while working for the customers you get. You'll earn more money. Don't you think ?

I can't answer for @Vilox...

Personally, I'd rather be the sales person building relationships with business owners than the techie building websites.

Commercial skills beats technical skills.

Myself and @Random_0 chat about that in this call:

• AndyTalks to Random_0 about Growing a Local Lead Gen Business

 

[Vilox]

I read your other thread and I'm wondering why you don't learn to create the websites by yourself ? It could take you 1 or 2 days do learn enough and then improve while working for the customers you get. You'll earn more money. Don't you think ?

The people I sell websites to, they need a new site. They're losing potential customers every day as long as their old website is up. But I don't want to be the guy who shoves a product down people's throat and never contacts them again. I want to establish a relationship based on trust. The other party should know that I only have their best interest in mind. Therefore I want them to get a site that will get the job done. And I don't think I could learn how to do that in two months, let alone two days.

Even if I could, why would I? There are a lot of people out there who do very good work. But especially small- to mid-sized design agencies don't have a dedicated sales team. I'd rather stick with Adam Smith and specialize on building a massive sales infrastructure other businesses can leverage for growth. If I want to, I can even move away from websites entirely if I so desire.

Next, the money. I don't intend to become an Indian appointment setter. I'll send you a friend who might even refer you to other businesses if you do good work. And I believe that if you take care of other people, other people will take care of you. Besides, you can't place a monetary value on a healthy, long-term relationship with your customers.

That being said, I'm fairly certain that focusing on pure sales is vastly more profitable. I don't have the numbers to prove it, but I'd imagine that in the time it takes me to build a quality site I might as well have made three more sales.

Lastly, I just like it more. As @Andy Black said, I enjoy building relationships. I admit that doing so over the phone is an acquired taste, but it's really fun once you get the hang of it.

 

[MakeItHappen]

Are you calling german businesses?
How do you make sure you don't risk any lawsuits? As far as I am concerned b2b cold calls are a grey area in germany and only legal under certain circumstances.

 

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[Vilox]

Are you calling german businesses?
How do you make sure you don't risk any lawsuits? As far as I am concerned b2b cold calls are a grey area in germany and only legal under certain circumstances.

I'm no lawyer, so take everything that I say with a grain of salt.

According to my research, you're not allowed to make cold calls with "einfacher Sachbezogenheit". Say I sold office chairs. I wouldn't be allowed to make cold calls just because it's reasonable to assume that most companies require chairs. In order for my call to be legal, I need reason to believe that I can solve one of their problems. Which is the case, since I only call companies whose sites are in desperate need of a rework.*

Naturally no judge will care about what I tell myself, so you're right. I should probably consult a lawyer.

Even if I'm not allowed to continue, I'll keep doing my thing abroad if need be. A client from the US already got in touch with me through the forum, and I don't really care whether I talk to Germans or Americans. If anything, it gives me an opportunity to get rid of my accent. Ever since I started recording my calls I've been meaning to take some elocution lessons anyway.

Thanks for the input!

*Small edit for clarification

 

[MakeItHappen]

I'm no lawyer, so take everything that I say with a grain of salt.

According to my research, you're not allowed to make cold calls with general relevancy. Say I sold office chairs. I wouldn't be allowed to make cold calls just because most companies require office chairs. In order for my call to be legal, I need reason to believe that they actually need what I'm selling. Which is the case, since I only call companies whose sites are in desperate need of a rework.

Naturally no judge will care about what I tell myself, so you're right. I should probably consult a lawyer.

Even if I'm not allowed to continue, I'll keep doing my thing abroad if need be. A client from the US already got in touch with me through the forum, and I don't really care whether I sell in German or English. If anything, it gives me an opportunity to get rid of my accent. Ever since I started recording my calls I've been meaning to take some elocution lessons anyway.

Thanks for the input!

Yeah this is my understanding of the situation as well. Just asked because the legal situation in germany makes me feel uneasy.
The likelihood of lawsuit is likely not that high (after all you haven't had any problems so far). But its probably a good idea to get legal advice from a lawyer to know what the worst case scenario would be financially speaking.

Good luck! Looking forward to your progress. The last progress thread of yours was gold.

 

[RoadTrip]

Sounds like a service a lot of people would consider very helpful. Could you team up with @Fox? He teaches web design and has a good following in his Facebook group.

In addition to this you may give Facebook ads a try. Target web designers and you'll find out if there's an interest soon enough


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

 

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[Vilox]

Finding suitable leads
I've always wondered how professional sales people get their leads. I've been doing a little bit of research and want to share my results with you. I also showcase my own method for collecting and pre-qualifying leads. Get yourself a cup of coffee, this is a long one:

• Buying lists: There are quite a few providers out there that will sell you just about everything. Last week I bought around 100 company phone numbers for 0.30$ per lead. And while it's certainly convenient to have a clean list of numbers, I wouldn't recommend it. The data was out-dated. Around 20% of numbers were no longer in service, which apparently is to be expected. So not only do I have to pay for the data, I have to be okay with every fifth call being a guaranteed waste of time. Even if the call goes through, without knowing anything about their current website I can't really make a good pitch. But if you're just running a numbers game (high quantity, low quality) this is certainly a viable option.
• Web scraping: What I personally do currently (more on that down below). Basically you let a program extract contact data from a website. For German companies, I found the Yellow Pages to be quite useful, especially since you can filter for niches. That being said, web scraping is another candidate for the 'high quantity, low quality' category.
• Have a dedicated lead gen team: Yeah, that's a thing. There are people out there who will manually find leads for you, based on criteria you give them. Dope. Haven't used such a service just yet, but I'd imagine that this one is 'low quantity, high quality'.

My Method
When I first started out, I used to do everything by hand: Checking websites, writing down contact data... Suffice it to say that I spent more time collecting data than I spent making calls. I created my own solution since then, which allows me to pre-qualify around 700 companies within an hour.

First I use a scraper to collect raw data. The structure of the Yellow Pages never changes, so I just have to supply a list of URLs (think pages of a phone book I want to go through) and specify the fields I want to extract (company name, phone number, website link). Then I just gotta wait for a few minutes and end up with lots of juicy data.

Supplying URLs

Results

Now comes the sexy part: I wrote myself a little VB script that opens the first website in the list and a dialogue window. I look at the site and choose whether I want to keep the entry or delete it. I keep all the companies whose sites need a rework. Here's a short video with dummy data to demonstrate how it works.

Again, it takes me around an hour to get a list of at least a few hundred companies, all with a shitty website. Enough to keep me busy for a week. Certainly not a 'clean' solution, but it allows me to focus on making calls and learning more about sales, which is all that matters at the end of the day.

Sounds like a service a lot of people would consider very helpful. Could you team up with @Fox? He teaches web design and has a good following in his Facebook group.

In addition to this you may give Facebook ads a try. Target web designers and you'll find out if there's an interest soon enough

Sorry for the delayed reply, only saw your post just now.

I'm pretty sure the interest is there, as I already have more partnership offers than I can handle. But I don't want to expand too rapidly, lest I create a job for myself if that makes sense. Right now I clear enough money to cover my living expenses and set a significant amount aside as savings. I don't need to 10X my revenue each year. I'd rather grow at my own pace and enjoy the journey.

 

[Ika]

Have a dedicated lead gen team: Yeah, that's a thing. There are people out there who will manually find leads for you, based on criteria you give them. Dope. Haven't used such a service just yet, but I'd imagine that this one is 'low quantity, high quality'.

Maybe you could try to build your own team and combine it with your scraper?

First you run the scraper to get the contact information of every business in the niche.
Then you hire a VA from SEA to go through the leads.

You create a checklist of criteria for your VA to look for - and then weight each criteria.
[ ] Loading time > 3 sec (10)
[ ] No responsive version (15)
[ ] No call-to-action above the fold (5)
[ ] No descriptive headline above the fold (8)

And if the total sum is below 80 points, the VA deletes the lead. If it is above 120 points, the VA marks it as "important".
That way you have a more structured list of leads.

Problems can be the language barrier and subjective criteria (like colors or fonts).

Now that I wrote it down it doesn't sound like that great of a plan anymore haha

Now comes the sexy part: I wrote myself a little VB script that checks for duplicates. Next, it'll open the first website and a dialogue window. I just have to choose whether I want to keep the entry or delete it. I keep all the companies whose sites need a rework. That process repeats itself until all entries have been covered. Here's a short video with dummy data to showcase how it works.

That is a great idea! Have you thought of selling that package (scraper + VB script) as a bundle?
I'm not using cold calls for my webdesign business at the moment, but if I were this software could save me a lot of time!


Anyways, I'm following this thread, I'm interested where you are going!

 

[Andy Black]

... or someone like me can generate form fills or phone calls of people looking for websites etc.

 

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[MakeItHappen]

@Vilox very nice post and progress.
How many webdesigners do you sell leads to atm and how much do you get paid per lead? With the nice system you are building I bet you can generate more leads that most single agencies can handle.
Also how do make sure you get paid for every lead? Isn't this system based on trust or do you follow up with the leads you sell to make sure everything is fine?

How much money do you make per phone call atm? If your hourly is high enough you could also hire people and build a team in the future (scale).

One thing that might be a good idea (in case you aren't doing it already) is to make sure that the agencies you sell your leads to are building higher ticket websites. As your sales skills improve you should be able to close deals for bigger budgets which should also increase your profit per lead.

 

[Vilox]

How many webdesigners do you sell leads to atm and how much do you get paid per lead? With the nice system you are building I bet you can generate more leads that most single agencies can handle.

Right now* I work with two people, both with their own design agency. I send them a warm lead, and if they close the deal I earn a commission.

Also how do make sure you get paid for every lead? Isn't this system based on trust or do you follow up with the leads you sell to make sure everything is fine?

Frankly, I don't have an ideal solution. Generally I rely on them being honest with me. I've been very fortunate in the sense that I can be selective about the people I work with. Naturally I don't know them very well, but they all want to do the right thing; at least according to my judgement. Does this mean I'll never get ripped off? Of course not. In fact, I'm expecting it. But if I have to choose between giving the benefit of the doubt and mistrusting everyone, I'll take the former every single time.

That being said, I follow-up with prospects. To make sure they are happy with what they've got. Because I'm curious whether their new site actually got them results. I pride myself in having an amazing relationship with the people I talk to. I want them to know that they can call me whenever they have a problem. When in doubt, I could just tell them about the arrangement I'm having and whether they paid as much as I was told.

How much money do you make per phone call atm?

Please keep in mind that this varies depending on how I perform, and the volume of the deals that get closed. If you take my last 500 calls as a baseline (I like to think that I get better daily, so I'm hesitant to go too far in the past) I make 21 Euros / 25 bucks per call before taxes.

If your hourly is high enough you could also hire people and build a team in the future (scale).

Down the line, that's the idea. I want to build a massive sales infrastructure other businesses can leverage for growth. Here's what I don't understand, though. I know that there are countless sales people in the corporate world who are perfectly happy earning 100 grand a year. But if you are half-decent at your job, and are willing to work 30 hours a week... Even now I could pay you twice as much and still make a gargantuan profit. Obviously I haven't been doing this long enough to properly extrapolate, but this just seems too easy.

It's worth noting that I don't want some appointment setter. I'm a big fan of Andy Frisella's saying 'Make a friend, make a sale'. I want people who can do that. So I was thinking of having my 'employees' (I'd rather call them partners) primarily work for commission. Just like they handle it at the higher levels of Investment Banking. On paper people are employed by the company, but in reality the just use their employer as a platform to leverage their own business. Everybody wins.

This is just what's currently going through my head. Fortunately I still got some time before I actually have to make a decision. As always, any kind of feedback is appreciated!

One thing that might be a good idea (in case you aren't doing it already) is to make sure that the agencies you sell your leads to are building higher ticket websites

Noted. Out of the last five sites that got sold, only one was valued below 5000.

That is a great idea! Have you thought of selling that package (scraper + VB script) as a bundle?
I'm not using cold calls for my webdesign business at the moment, but if I were this software could save me a lot of time!

I have not. The scraper is not mine, and the VB script is far from being universally applicable. But I like your way of thinking!

 

[Scuur]

This is amazing. Watching your thread from the beginning to this is very inspiring. You could also add in things like majestic and other tools to your script to have a detailed list of exactly what the website needs.

 

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[MakeItHappen]

Frankly, I don't have an ideal solution. Generally I rely on them being honest with me. I've been very fortunate in the sense that I can be selective about the people I work with. Naturally I don't know them very well, but they all want to do the right thing; at least according to my judgement. Does this mean I'll never get ripped off? Of course not. In fact, I'm expecting it. But if I have to choose between giving the benefit of the doubt and mistrusting everyone, I'll take the former every single time.

Maybe the agencies could send you a copy of the invoice (maybe not possible because of privacy laws...)? They could still rip you but maybe the hole process makes it more unlikely.

I know that there are countless sales people in the corporate world who are perfectly happy earning 100 grand a year. But if you are half-decent at your job, and are willing to work 30 hours a week... Even now I could pay you twice as much and still make a gargantuan profit. Obviously I haven't been doing this long enough to properly extrapolate, but this just seems too easy.

Haha that doesn't make sense to me ether. Time will tell.

Noted. Out of the last five sites that got sold, only one was valued below 5000.

That sounds great! How long do you have to wait for a lead to become a confirmed sale? I would also want to make sure that the agencies are capable of following up and closing the lead as fast as possible.
One more idea that might be useful for your... i would "split test" the agencies you work with. Make sure you track how much you get paid per lead on average. In the midterm I would keep adding and testing new agencies and only keep working with the ones that your leads are most happy with and the ones that pay the most. Of course that's a process and there is no reason to rush all of that.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Kastosaurus]

Thanks for sharing.

Couple of follow-up questions:

How did you approach the designers?

What criteria did you have when searching for designers?

How and when did you handle administering a business entity when you decided you wanted to earn money with it?

 

[Vilox]

How did you approach the designers?

I started looking for mid-sized design agencies, not individuals. I had a checklist where each question needed to be answered with 'yes', otherwise I'd no longer consider them as a potential partner:

1. Does their portfolio suggest that they've been servicing companies with yearly revenues above 5 million USD?
2. Call the company. Are they satisfied with their new site compared to their old one?
3. Call the agency. Are they willing to let me do commission-based sales for them?
4. On average, do they sell their design services for 10,000 USD or more?
5. Are they willing to offer me at least 50% commission?

It took a few hundred calls, but eventually I found two agencies that fit all those criteria.

How and when did you handle administering a business entity when you decided you wanted to earn money with it?

Back when I was doing this as an experiment I was focusing on the bare necessities to move forward. I registered a German 'Einzelunternehmen' because one guy (I was working with local freelancers back then) required me to send him an invoice. This took less than two hours.

 

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[Kastosaurus]

I started looking for mid-sized design agencies, not individuals. I had a checklist where each question needed to be answered with 'yes', otherwise I'd no longer consider them as a potential partner:

1. Does their portfolio suggest that they've been servicing companies with yearly revenues above 5 million USD?
2. Call the company. Are they satisfied with their new site compared to their old one?
3. Call the agency. Are they willing to let me do commission-based sales for them?
4. On average, do they sell their design services for 10,000 USD or more?
5. Are they willing to offer me at least 50% commission?

It took a few hundred calls, but eventually I found two agencies that fit all those criteria.


Back when I was doing this as an experiment I was focusing on the bare necessities to move forward. I registered a German 'Einzelunternehmen' because one guy (I was working with local freelancers back then) required me to send him an invoice. This took less than two hours.

1. You said at Day 2: "I also got in touch with three designers who I think do good work, offering to do sales for them. Didn't get a reply just yet, but things will work out somehow.". A few hundred calls within 2 days to find 2 suitable agencies?

2. What did you tell them when you called the agencies? Because 50% commission in sales is rather an exception than the norm. Especially if you merely provide leads and don't close the actual deal yourself. You don't handle customer service and account management either, you're working from home instead of approaching prospects in-person, you lack sales experience, (probably) don't have an enormous network of million dollar German companies in need for your webdesign service, which all give the agency more reason not to do a 50:50 deal. How did you come up with that number? How were you still able to convince them to do a 50/50 commission structure?

3. At day 4 you say: "Well, what's your budget? We can structure the deal in different ways. If you tell me how much money you're willing to put into this, I can tell you if and how we can make it work.".

How? How could you talk about price structures, budgets, send offers etc. while you did not even have some designer or agency as your partner? Did you just made up a number based on your gut feeling and then hoping some designer would do it for that price? I am curious how you could talk in-depth about a product/service without even having one and even send offers.

When exactly in the process did you refer the prospect to one of 'your designers'?

I look forward to hearing from you, really interesting experience.

 

[Vilox]

Good questions!

1. You said at Day 2: "I also got in touch with three designers who I think do good work, offering to do sales for them. Didn't get a reply just yet, but things will work out somehow.". A few hundred calls within 2 days to find 2 suitable agencies?

The reason why there are two different threads is that I started from scratch twice, with this one being a 'serious' business endeavor. The post you're referring to was made when I was treating the whole thing as a public journal documenting my fight against that silly anxiety of mine. The purpose of the thread was accountability, but people suggested that I might as well earn some money while doing it. So I wrote emails (didn't even call them haha) to several freelancers asking whether I could send some leads their way. I ended up working with a few guys in their early twenties. Commission was 25%, ticket price was a lot lower and (at least initially) all I did was set-up appointments. Things got a little more sophisticated over the following weeks, but that's how it started.

I approached the agencies when the initial experiment was over and I decided to do this full-time.

2. What did you tell them when you called the agencies? Because 50% commission in sales is rather an exception than the norm. Especially if you merely provide leads and don't close the actual deal yourself. You don't handle customer service and account management either, you're working from home instead of approaching prospects in-person, you lack sales experience, (probably) don't have an enormous network of million dollar German companies in need for your webdesign service, which all give the agency more reason not to do a 50:50 deal. How did you come up with that number? How were you still able to convince them to do a 50/50 commission structure?

You're focusing on what I can't do and what I don't have. Naturally I structured my pitch around my strengths.

I usually make two calls with prospects before sending them to the agencies, one to judge their interest, one to make sure they see value before cost. The leads I get you want a new site and are prepared to drop five figures, because they see that it's just an initial investment to generate even more profit down the line. The agency only has to cover the technical side of things and actually set a price. And since it's commission based it's completely risk-free for them.

Why 50%? I dunno. Why do the agencies charge up to 30,000 per site? At the end of the day it's just a number that comes down to the return on your investment, and getting half of a big cake is still better than getting no cake at all. Not to mention that they profit from all the personal referrals that may happen because of that initial deal.

How? How could you talk about price structures, budgets, send offers etc. while you did not even have some designer or agency as your partner? Did you just made up a number based on your gut feeling and then hoping some designer would do it for that price? I am curious how you could talk in-depth about a product/service without even having one and even send offers.

I couldn't have cared less about price at that point in time. I was a stuttering, insecure mess that just randomly called you. Of course you'd try to get rid of me by saying that my service is too expensive, whatever the price. The goal was to keep the conversation going by slowly diverting the flow. Did it work? Most of the time, no. But it sure yielded better results than me just giving them a price and them saying it's too expensive.

When exactly in the process did you refer the prospect to one of 'your designers'?

Again, that's not how I handle things now, but back then I would refer them as soon as they suggested that they wanted a new site.

 

[BlakeIC]

Did you get objections related to credibility? If so how did you deal with it?

I am starting cold calling this Monday (pointless on a Sunday in my opinion, lot's of American business owners take Sundays off).

Currently, have hired a VA to collect leads for me with XYZ criteria. So I know these people will get value out of my service.

Man, I am so pumped to cold call Monday! Fortunately for me, I don't have cold calling anxiety.

edit: You are the reason I am giving cold calls a shot, it totally left my mind that there is still success with this form of selling.

 

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[Vilox]

Did you get objections related to credibility? If so how did you deal with it?

A few times, but not nearly as often as you would think.

It's important to remember that everyone started out small, and you have a solution that can help them acquire new customers. That's the only thing that matters.

All their objections can usually be framed in a positive way:

"Your team isn't big enough!"
vs.
"You get the undivided attention of myself, a design expert"​

"You guys don't have clear hierarchy or a fixed set of responsibilities. That's a disaster waiting to happen"
vs.
"Whereas other companies have to schedule meetings and get approval from higher-ups, we can make decisions quickly and solve problems in a fraction of the time."
​

Once you closed a few deals, it's a walk in the park. Next time someone voices concerns, just show them how you helped a similar company (same niche, approximately same number of employees, et cetera). That's all the credibility you'll ever need.

Good luck with your calls! Let me know how it goes.

 

[MakeItHappen]

How did the last 3 weeks go? Everything fine?

 

[Vilox]

How did the last 3 weeks go? Everything fine?

Thanks for asking! Here's the gist of it:

• A personal issue came up, and I had a hard time dealing with it. I dropped everything for a week without notice. Silly me. I've been fortunate in that the people I work with have been very understanding, but I'm still a little upset about the whole thing and violating my own standards in the process.
• I started calling people in America, and so far it's been underwhelming. The difference in time zones makes it difficult (I've always been a morning person), and as of right now I get appropriate leads by hand, which is very time consuming. On the bright side, I've found an excellent partner for the American market.

Here are a few ideas I'm playing with. Nothing set in stone yet, though:

• Get a Virtual Assistant. Right now I use LinkedIn Sales Navigator to acquire American leads. It's an amazing tool. You can filter for all sorts of things, like revenue or employee count. But again, it's very time consuming. A VA would save a lot of time. I've also tried a few lead gen businesses. While the overall quality has been decent, it wasn't nearly as good as I had hoped.
• Streamline my sales process. The idea is to teach an employee (I like to call them 'partner') the basics. I wasn't planning on hiring so soon, but I have a few offers from some amazing people that I can't accommodate.
• Move to (South) America for a few months. I like to think of it as the solution to all my problems. It allows me to:
  • ... have easier access to potential hires who are willing to make calls in English
  • ... slowly shift away from the German market (which apparently is a grey area when it comes to B2B cold calls)
  • ... call Americans in the morning
  • ... practice my spoken English and gain access to a bigger market.

Thanks for sticking with me!

 

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[Villain]

I was looking into web scraping and it turns out to be illegal. Yell places fake listings in the data to catch people who are using it for marketing. Sucks since I was going to try this.

Phones4U hit by writ over web 'rip-offs' | This is Money

 

[Denim Chicken]

I was looking into web scraping and it turns out to be illegal. Yell places fake listings in the data to catch people who are using it for marketing. Sucks since I was going to try this.

Phones4U hit by writ over web 'rip-offs' | This is Money

It doesn't necessarily mean it's illegal. It's just against this particular directories terms and conditions

 

[Villain]

It doesn't necessarily mean it's illegal. It's just against this particular directories terms and conditions

Ok I see. OP has been scraping from the same company, albeit in a different country.

Do you think OP or anybody who wants to try this should be worried about getting sued? I don't know enough about the cold calling industry to know whether that's a realistic threat or not.

 

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[Vilox]

I'm no lawyer, but based on what Google just told me I'd call it a grey area, especially if you're outside the US.

But if you're uncomfortable doing it or if it's outright illegal, don't do it. I stopped calling German companies because of questionable legality. I had to put two hugely successful partnerships on hold and missed out on quite a bit of money for what other people have called an incredibly stupid reason. Could I have kept going without ever being bothered? Probably. Most likely, even. But at the end of the day you have to be able to look yourself in the mirror. No shortcut is worth taking if you can't sleep well at night because of it.

 

[Scuur]

Just checking in and seeing how everything is going!? I also have a question, I remember what you posted last time about when the potential client states "We already have a guy doing that". Do you have a different method now then you did a couple of months ago. I always get caught up in the statement.