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DeletedUser2

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NOTE: I originally was going to post this on another thread, but after writing it, I decided it needed to live in this thread, and a link to the other post was a better Idea.



Here is the orginal qoute by sean
I've been doing a ton of reading on successful real estate investors (mainly Sam Zell). It seems as though there is a correlation between the mega-successful leaders in this industry. They took advantage of distressed markets and when everything went back to normal(or better) they profited on a massive scale. With the economy the way it is I have the belief that an amazing opportunity to invest in real estate is upon us. What are your comments on this belief?
Sean

look, there are dozens of strategies in real estate, Im going to list a couple below.
the most successful guys usually pick 1 or 2 maybe 3 strategies and employ them relentlessly, over and over.

the secret is to not do every type of deal out there. its to pick your deal style, and goal, and go after that.

each one requires different skill sets, focus and temperament.

an example Rickson buys and holds for pretty much forever. I am WAY to ADHD to do that. (the forever bit)
but I will lay out some of the ones I know, and ones I have Done, as well as ones I have not done.

basically there are 2 main schools of thought.

cashflow
and capital gains (there are others but for now, let me speak to these)

1. in the cash flow model, you buy with the focus of keeping properties bringing in cash flow over and over for a long period of time.
2. capital gains, you buy with the intention to creating as much mass cash as possible

as for timing the markets, well that's one way, but it may mean if you use that strategy exclusively, then you may have to wait a decade or more for another crash. so while it sounds great, its a 1 legged stool. best to not rely on it.

so about cashflow.
1. in 1996 I started buying apartment complexes. I would buy 15-50 units at a time. the goal was to get at least 100/month per apartment in net take home profit. (im not going to explain the financial mechanics here im going over the concept first)
if i bought a 15 unit apt complex.

I would sometime get to take home between 1,000 and 2,000 a month. if you look at it that way, doesn't seem very attractive at first. lots of work, risk ect for just 1000. ugh.

HOWEVER after a year, it was closer to 2000 consistently (kicking out bad tenets ect helps.) but 24K a year in income, not really able to retire on. I know people do 300-500 a month on some houses they buy but apartments are different.

after getting 1 under control I went shopping for more. I bought another 16 unit 6 months after teh first on. suddenly I added another 1500 a moth to my income. 6 months later I bought a 44 unit apartment, adding another 3500-4500 to My income.
fast forward to 2 1/2 yrs later I had 250 apartments and I was doing between 30-40K a month. NOW it seemed worth it.

The income was also used to improve the apartments, increasing the rent, over time, and to pay down debt. so eventually they could be debt free, and if done right, you could be pretty close to debt free in about 8-12 yrs depending on your strategy.

this is an example of a cashflow model. other cash flow models include
buying mobile homes, renting them
buying and selling mobile homes on contract (notes) and keeping the cash flow with no landlord issues
buying land, renting it to ranchers, or farmers,
buying mobile home pads renting them to mobile home owners
renting commercial buildings to businesses
lending money on real estate
buying notes, or holding notes (installment contracts for sale) on real estate
these are just some examples. there are alot more.

The Advantages:
keeps money coming for Years or even decades after your initial transaction.
disadvantages: it can require money up front to start (not always) it can take a couple years to build it to the point of making enough money to kill off a job.


Capital Gains

many people believe you need cash to buy the properties (you dont) but if you wanted to make money fast to be able to buy cash flow properties, then it requires a different type of thinking.
you become transaction focused. buying and selling a property (flip) or wholesale ect, are examples of this. the whole idea is to acquire something at a lower price and sell it for a higher price in a short period of time. since you mentioned the crash, i will just say, this can work in any market. what alot of people dont realize is the market crash happens every day, someplace.

let me say that 1 more time. markets crash every day. it may not be the wider market, it may just be someones personal market.

here is an example of what I mean.

Death,
Divorce
Debt
Distress (the 4 horseman of personal crashes) or the 4D's

these are when people may have an asset but loses its value TO THEM. time becomes their enemy and you can make money in the "crash" that happens. an example is someone came to me with a house that was worth 170K.
they only owed about 90K on it. BUT the 4 horseman came calling, in the form of a divorce. the wife owned the house, and she was devastated when her husband asked for a divorce.

she sold it to me for 5K in cash (provided I could pay that day. She then moved out, and left.) a personal housing crash, left me with an 70K+ profit because of a market crash (it was in 2005 when the markets were still booming) and yet crashes can still happen

examples of transaction based capital gains strategies
1. buy fix sell (flip)
2. Whole Sale to other investors
3. subject to, then sell,
4. develop land build house and sell
5. foreclosure and sell.
ect ect ect.

This is all about the act of buying for the purpose of selling.
advantages? big chunks of cash all at once
the disadvantages? the cash stops the moment you stop doing transactions.

Skills, Focus and temperament needed
as you pick and work your fastlane you will find that you either have the skills, and temperament for it. or you dont. lacking the skills can be fixed, (see below) by skill acquisition. lacking the temperament, is much much harder, and more likely to end in failure.

Ask rickson to start flipping properties, evaluate hundreds of properties a month, buy and flip them.

You will most likely find him to abandon the whole project before breakfast. ask someone who is highly active, and believes that they are not really working unless they put in 18 hrs a day. So the idea of sitting, buy 1 property at a time, and then sit on it for years? "
You will find that person failing in that particular strategy, before they even get started.



for cashflow
Skills,
understand the time value of money, TVM calculations, and TVM evaluation
I picked up a book called calculator power, and after spending 2 weeks with a financial calculator, and the book I had a good understanding of how TVM worked. how it affected buying decisions, valuation and profit of cashflow property. once you have acquired this skill (about 2 weeks +/-) then you can confidently asses your options, and decisions, and make money here.

Temperament:
more patient, analytical, willing to put in the time on the computer to asses a property, or deal, slower to act. willing to revisit the deal several times before its structured the way you want. willing to put in the work, understanding that its 6 months to 6 yrs before you realize your goals. can see the future, and understand it a process. not in a hurry. typically will take time to aim to shoot 1 good bullet to get 1 good deal rather than spray and pray.

Focus activity: They scan the landscape understanding the market as a whole. and look for the right deal that "pops up" from time to time.
consistent actions in small amounts every day. say 1 hr in the morning looking over deals, waiting for the right ones.

for Capital Gains
Skills: They have a understanding of the current market. what others are willing to pay for the product, what others are willing to do to buy. constant updating of market information. finding out what others are doing, what the market speed is (how fast things are selling) what the market pitch is, (uptrend or down trend) how fevered is the pitch, how market pressures are affecting prices in in the next 30-90-180 days. mostly ignores the market past 180 days.
can BUY quickly, asses the property quickly due to market knowledge, sell quickly because they network with other buyers. or future buyers.
Sales Skills, People Skills, Networking Skills. a hustler. making it happen.

Temperament: this person is usually high activity. Right now is barely soon enough, a hustler. kinda pushy. which is perfect for this market.
always looking for a deal.

Focus activity: while scanning for deals, instead of looking for 1 perfect deal right now, they want to do 10 ok deals right now.willing to settle for smaller profit margins on larger volume. 10 deals at 10K a profit each per month is better than waiting 3 months to find a 100K profit deal. churn and burn activities.


depending on where you are at in your life, you will tend to gravitate towards one or the other. once you master 1 you will see that while markets go up and down, you can do what Sam Zell Does if you have that temperament and focus. or, you can still achieve huge wealth regardless what the market does. if your strategy is not market dependent, then the market fluctuation are just gravy on a otherwise solid strategy.

so picking your strategy is more about deciding where you are on the temperament scale, adding the skills needed and training your focus for the most effective and profitable process. NOT what the markets may be doing.

so while there are LOTS of strategies out there. they still focus on 1 of the 2 basics. cashflow or capital gains.

so if you hear about;
mobile homes,
paper buying
notes,
flipping
renting
rehabbing
subject to
lease options
commercial
shortsales
land
development
tax liens
storage units
land contracts
land trusts
apartments
hardmoney lending
rent to own
ect,

you will know these are all strategies that follow one of the 2 basic formats, and are usually responses to where the larger markets are in the cycle of ups and downs.
Hope this helps

Z
 
D

DeletedUser2

Guest
a great way to get to retirement income quickly is to use both

exactly,

I was trying to illustrate that WHO you are, and your temperament has more effect on what strategy works for you. (all strategies work at some market point...)

I no longer rehabb properties. because I found out that every time I pick up a hammer or paint brush I'm losing money. its not my core skill set. its no longer in my temperament range. (if i rehabbed now, it would have to be 100% hands off)

since most people have a hard time starting, or being successful in even 1 of the above strategies, I was trying to show that temperament, and who you are, is important on picking a strategy to get started. LATER you can expand into both, core structures.

as you go along, you may even pick up several or a dozen strategies. honing your skill until you can swap out strategies like a tool box, to match any market.

in any case thanks for that, long term cashflow, or cash bundles. both are cool, whats in your wallet?



Z
 

Gsuz

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There is a course "Introduction to Finance" over at coursera.org, starting in 2 weeks.

https://www.coursera.org/course/introfinance


"This course is primarily devoted to the fundamental principles of valuation. We will learn and apply the concepts of time value of money and risk to understand the major determinants of value creation. We will use both theory and real world examples to demonstrate how to value any asset. "

Just found it and thought I'd let you guys know. Planning on doing this, I think this is something that can be useful in a lot of situations.

Any thoughts on this?
 
D

DeletedUser2

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one of our websites.

we did this video. I liked it. it was pretty powerful.

5 Powerful Alzheimers Prevention Steps (version1)
5 Powerful Alzheimers Prevention Steps (version 2)
5 Powerful Alzheimers Prevention Steps (version 3)
(these pages are cookied so you may have to clear your cache to see the other ones.)

Thought I would share. the video was short, and powerful.
NOTE: it took 6 rewrites, and 22 shots to get this 1.

Process.
1. lay out the pain points, and the simple call to action.
2. put it in story format.
3. write SHORT sentences
4. edit the crap outta it.
5.shoot, edit, reshoot

6. cut and cut and cut the words out until only the most critical ones for getting your message across are left.
reshoot.

Tip: we ran the music in the back ground so steve could coordinate the cards with the music. then we ripped the audio out of the video edit, and played the real music back as a fresh audio. it allowed us to move the timing around, and allowed for a clean version of the music, with out the back ground noise.


Let me know how It makes you FEEL. because that's the point of this video.


Z
 

Eskil

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Very powerful to be honest. Maybe I am biased to say so, because my own grandmother who I loved very dearly - died from this a couple of years back. It runs in my family and it is one of the reasons I am personally passionate about having my supplement made available.
 

Stu_Hefner

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Hey, Zen. I'm interested to know the outcome and some details from the Adtech deal. If you don't mind sharing? It's so interesting how fast you can organize something on such a large scale.

I take it you outsource all your internet stuff? as you seem busy and I don't imagine you going at it completely alone.
we got:
money to fund a new company, all the product and traffic we can buy.
a company to provide us with a super high quality product we can sell
a company to do the entire website process, setting up, ect
a company to bring us all the traffic we need
a bank to provide us with difficult processing
several experts who can improve our already good conversions

I'm just wondering do you have a team that takes care of design, landing pages, copy, ads, optimization and testing of ads, banners, landing pages? The quote above sounds like you got some conversion rate optimizers on board for that business.I would love to learn how to work out my metrics to do similar things. I take it capital is needed if one chose to go in this direction.

Copy-writing and conversion testing/optimizing fascinates me. But I have virtually no design programming skills to take the ideas in my head into the internet world.

Any information regarding the Adtech deal, when you have the time to will be awesome.

P.S the Alzheimer videos captures the emotion really well.

Cheers.
 
D

DeletedUser2

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how to filter out bullshit interactions from people who waste your time.
Context: someone asked me how to stop getting so many crappy emails, from people who cant write their way out of a paper bag.

INTERACTION FILTERS:

HERE is what I did.

I used to have a bunch of sales people run up to me and say Hey I got this guy who wants to buy a property. and they would launch into the details of the deal...

now I was a CEO of a public company at the time, and was constantly bombarded by accounting, the attys, operations, sales ect.

So I created a series of interaction filters for each and enforced it.

for sales
1. if you bring me a deal and you want a yes/no on the spot, bring me 4 things. A. how much we bought the property for B, how much are they offering C our profit D the speed at which they could close
And I would give them a yes no on the spot

for the attys.

A. what is the JV deal and with who
B. is it outside the normal parameters of our deals
C. If yes, HOw much and what are they offering to offset us for a parameter change
D. Do we fund or do they fund
they would get a yes/no or a full answer on the spot

for the accounting

A. was it approved, by whom
B. Is this the final price
C. paid by when

For the tech/software guys
1. if there is a problem come with a high level Problem
2. Come with a solution
3. does your current solution violate any other parameters we already have (software limits, speed limits ect) if so, how badly
4. How much will the solution cost
5. how fast will the solution be ready to go
6. Does this need a full head on meeting

if they did this I could answer simple questions and they could move forward.
I enforced this. and went from a super busy CEO to one who had control of hte information flowing to me, to only the essential information. cutting down on the INFO clutter 1000%

we would schedule regular meeting to discuss in depth stuff. but if people came to me while i was walking around, or at lunch, i said, give it to me in that format or the answer was a no.

by training people how to bring you information in a strict criteria based interaction you create a filter that trains people

For someone who asked me recently how to cut down on the amount of junky poorly written emails, I suggested this as a start

Emailing me? Fill this form.
1. is this your opinion?
2. Is this time sensitive and critical?
3. Is this a major change to what we already agreed upon, if so , see above question 1 and 2.
4.Do i really need to apply the things you just wrote me, as an off the top of your head thought, and trash all the carefully planed out road maps we have already agreed upon? or can I just ignore your random bits of mental flotsam?



This is about building criteria based filters
The model for building criteria based interaction filters is actually pretty simple really
you boil it down to what criteria do I need to make a on the spot decision,
Then you lay it out in a priority list.
Then you communicate it, and the importance for following it, to the people who keep dropping random stuff in you lap, and you give a reward for bringing information to you in the right format. Like giving a fast yes/no.

also, increase the pain for someone who brings it to you in the wrong format.

It will train the people you interact with, very very quickly.


Z
 
D

DeletedUser2

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Some one pinged me recently and here is my reply, I thought I would share it since I had a blast writing it.
Enjoy


Background a 17 yr old asked if I could mentor him....
here is my response.




so, your in high school. great. you want some real quick advice? dont got to collage. that's just my experienced opinion. Go start a business instead. You will learn more, faster.

your young yet, so to be honest, I usually wait until someone is in their mid 20's to begin mentoring them.

why?

because at your age, you dont even know what you dont know. and I have tried mentoring younger guys, but really, they are so busy trying to tell me how the world works, they they dont seem to have time to listen to what I have done, and what I know.

So, I let them talk, and several years later they apologize and ask again.

what you need at your age is a coach. someone who can kick your a$$ a little bit, and can help you focus. not really a mentor.

a coach can say, you want to do biz? go do this and this and this. let me know how it goes.

mentoring is a whole nother level.

the people I mentor are people who

1. are ready for a mentor,
2. have a burning desire to succeed, (and will probably succeed even with out my help)
3. are in the industry or sector that I am already in.
4. have a symbiotic relationship, with what ever I am doing at the time, adding value to me and my time. (example, if im buying apartments, then the people I mentor are usually in real estate, if im selling shit online, then they are online focused, if i am investing in companies then they have the resources to do so as well, or know others who can)


now, good on you for contacting me. most people are just to chicken shit to reach out to someone they want to meet with. dont know why. but there ya have it.


so what I'm going to do for you is give you some advice. then, you can come back to me and let me know what advice you took, and more importantly what advice you didn't take, and why.

if there is a synergy, well, maybe we can chat from time to time. but to be honest, I get alot of people pinging me asking for the short cut.

so here is the short cuts. funny part is, few people actually believe it, or use it. :)


short cut.

Skip collage. go start a business. any business. fail at it. start another.

if you want to learn, (and you need to on a damm near daily basis) look up classes, or weekend workshops for what ever skill or info you are looking for

learn to be discerning about people who you learn from. find them. track them down, ask high quality questions and then act on it.

DO IT. what ever needs to be done, dont think about it, dont worry forever about it. just do it. regardless what others say. failure is the best lesson, and 1 good failure is worth 10,000 opinions from other people. f*ck em. they are not you, so get over what ever they say. they just dont know.

Take action. every day, towards your goals. get out of the chair get off the couch. get it done.

if you have an xbox, a ps3 or if you do pc games. Kill it for the next few years. seriously give that shit away. and read instead.

Discover your why. why the hell do you want to work that hard to make money? its 2-10x harder than a job. why work so hard? if you dont have a good why. your f*cked. find it. and use it as leverage on yourself to get shit done.

if you need someone to kick your a$$ to get shit done. pay them.
Give 10 checks for 100 bucks each to someone, and then promise to get it done, or they get to cash the check. believe me, that has worked for years.

Do it. get shit done.

dont be a pussy. stop being afraid. quit dicking around. what the hell are you afraid of? GO. DO IT.

Do things that scare the shit out of yourself. do massive things. make big plans and then push past them.

you will learn on the way. you dont need to know everything right now. you just need to find someone who needs something, and go get it for them.

you are seriously not too good to make coffee, fetch things, or do shit work. that's part of the price you pay of not having money get over yourself.

Help people for free. help those that are in a position to pay you well, and do it for free. it will come back to you in ways you never would have imagined. seriously.

leap, and the net will appear. sometimes the net will look alot like the ground. that's ok, its there to break your fall. :)

you will fail, you will suck, and it will take a while for that shit to stop happening on a regular basis. TRUST THAT THIS IS TRUE and life will be easier for you. (the upside is, at some point you stop sucking, and start really shining! )

ignore your friends. they will go out and get jobs, get nicer cars. go out partying, and shit like that. the parties they do now, will be epic for them later, when all they have is the memory of the parties, and the mortgages they pay. while you will be able to party for the rest of your life, with no mortgage, if you just learn to not suck :)

they say it takes 10,000 hrs
to really master something. focus on that, and f*cking master something. and no, its not call of duty or the latest assassins creed.

learn to network with the best and brightest people in the world, and you will have all the resources you ever need only a phone call away.

Hire people smarter than you, and fire yourself as fast as possible

make your "list" of must have skills then focus on getting them. take a class, take a weekend seminar, watch youtube vids on the topic, look up open source education, and learn stuff. Learn how to learn. you will never be behind if you do that.

ok, good luck, and have at it. when you get out of school ping me again, see where your at, and we may chat then.

Z
 

Tom.V

Tom
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Holy Christ! Definitely didn't know this thread existed, but to my next point..

Why is this thread NOT STICKIED?!

I'll sponge it up later today, huge thanks Dale.
 
D

DeletedUser2

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someone asked me recently on how I learned to manage people.
Here is an excellent podcast that I used to listen to when I was growing a larger business.

its a good way to learn some corporate training, that you may not have if your a young entrepreneur. and if you grow a business. at somepoint you will need to have these skills.

knowing about them, ahead of time, helps.

to the up and coming CEO's here

http://www.manager-tools.com/podcast/manager-tools
 

LightHouse

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Also, find groups of employees that like their manager, and cross them with those managers executives who also like the manager and learn from that person. I've met and learned from several people like this.

The key is to be a leader not a boss

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4
 

splok

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The key is to be a leader not a boss

Depends a bit on the people though. Different management styles are better suited to different types of people. A fast-food restaurant staffed with f*ck-ups who don't really want to be there probably needs a boss. But a group of highly skilled developers who really want to make the thing they're making? Sure, leadership/visionary all the way.

leadership_situational_styles_6x4.png
 

LightHouse

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So many people fail at this. The first supervisor I liked gave me one of my main principles I follow to this day.

"Don't make anyone do anything you wont do. Just do it yourself, it will get done faster and people wont hate you."

I don't know about that, If i had to do everything myself because I didn't want to make someone else do it, i might as well not have employees, the key there is to not make it seem as though you just don't want to do it even though you are capable.


Depends a bit on the people though. Different management styles are better suited to different types of people. A fast-food restaurant staffed with f*ck-ups who don't really want to be there probably needs a boss. But a group of highly skilled developers who really want to make the thing they're making? Sure, leadership/visionary all the way.

Even if you are managing people who have no motivation, you can still lead them. Sometimes this will lead to those people growing into responsibility because you are different. You note their victories as much as their mess ups. People need to have positive at some point, but at the same time you can't let everything slide either.
 

robotunicr0n

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Great thread Z thanks for the tips. Subscribed for your future updates :)

Also funny.. I clicked on the link you posted back in May, right after your actual post in here about mentors, and it lead to that mentor thread I started back then. Didn't realize it was mine until I finished reading your post there. That post and the urging of others has been really helpful :)
 

Paul Thomas

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Is there any process/philosophy behind how you come up with business ideas to run with regardless if they fail or not? I find this is the hardest thing is to think of something "solid enough" to work with.

Thanks for all of the gold in this post as well - I've read the whole thread.
 

gdup3784

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Holy Crap! Gold nuggets? This thread is Plutonium to say the least. Thanks for this Zen!
 

RogueInnovation

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so here is the short cuts. funny part is, few people actually believe it, or use it.


short cut.

Skip collage. go start a business. any business. fail at it. start another.

if you want to learn, (and you need to on a damm near daily basis) look up classes, or weekend workshops for what ever skill or info you are looking for

learn to be discerning about people who you learn from. find them. track them down, ask high quality questions and then act on it.

DO IT. what ever needs to be done, dont think about it, dont worry forever about it. just do it. regardless what others say. failure is the best lesson, and 1 good failure is worth 10,000 opinions from other people. f*ck em. they are not you, so get over what ever they say. they just dont know.

Take action. every day, towards your goals. get out of the chair get off the couch. get it done.

if you have an xbox, a ps3 or if you do pc games. Kill it for the next few years. seriously give that shit away. and read instead.

Discover your why. why the hell do you want to work that hard to make money? its 2-10x harder than a job. why work so hard? if you dont have a good why. your f*cked. find it. and use it as leverage on yourself to get shit done.

if you need someone to kick your a$$ to get shit done. pay them.
Give 10 checks for 100 bucks each to someone, and then promise to get it done, or they get to cash the check. believe me, that has worked for years.

Do it. get shit done.

dont be a pussy. stop being afraid. quit dicking around. what the hell are you afraid of? GO. DO IT.

Do things that scare the shit out of yourself. do massive things. make big plans and then push past them.

you will learn on the way. you dont need to know everything right now. you just need to find someone who needs something, and go get it for them.

you are seriously not too good to make coffee, fetch things, or do shit work. that's part of the price you pay of not having money get over yourself.

Help people for free. help those that are in a position to pay you well, and do it for free. it will come back to you in ways you never would have imagined. seriously.

leap, and the net will appear. sometimes the net will look alot like the ground. that's ok, its there to break your fall.

you will fail, you will suck, and it will take a while for that shit to stop happening on a regular basis. TRUST THAT THIS IS TRUE and life will be easier for you. (the upside is, at some point you stop sucking, and start really shining! )

ignore your friends. they will go out and get jobs, get nicer cars. go out partying, and shit like that. the parties they do now, will be epic for them later, when all they have is the memory of the parties, and the mortgages they pay. while you will be able to party for the rest of your life, with no mortgage, if you just learn to not suck

they say it takes 10,000 hrs to really master something. focus on that, and f*cking master something. and no, its not call of duty or the latest assassins creed.

learn to network with the best and brightest people in the world, and you will have all the resources you ever need only a phone call away.

Hire people smarter than you, and fire yourself as fast as possible

make your "list" of must have skills then focus on getting them. take a class, take a weekend seminar, watch youtube vids on the topic, look up open source education, and learn stuff. Learn how to learn. you will never be behind if you do that.

Agreed,

Making collages is for suckers ;) (stupid joke)
To me this says "you did it right as all hell". The mistake in biz would be to really not scare the shit out of yourself (lol, and everyone around you).

My friends gimme a little crap about my biz stuff, but when they see products on the table, they are like "WOW!!! You could be like, a real biz guy!", lol (as opposed to a make believe one, haha). Or they are like "wow, that almost looks like a real thing" (because mine is made from imaginary code, colors, and words).

"make your "list" of must have skills" this part was new to me. How do you know which ones are must have? Keeping in mind that you also wanna fire yourself early (as you said).
Maybe wiping out any beliefs that are atrocious?

(off the top of my head, code, some art and design aspects)
Ok then, I'll try to avoid atrocious stuff across the board. (goes to a coding board and graphics board)


You are right that it is HARD to believe in that short cut method though. For me, that stuff BURNT like sticking my hand in acid. The whole time I thought I was fighting for a chance to be ok at biz with that stuff, but being engaged enough to be afraid, is being engaged enough to be "for real" about it.

My key indicator for a guys success is fear. Spot it, and see him grinding, and not giving up, and you got yourself a contender.

Cheers, I found this all kind of heartening (hard to find in the white wash)
Nicely put, you gave that guy a gem
 

TedM

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
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Zen....thanks...
 
D

DeletedUser2

Guest
WHEN TO GET A LOGO!

one of the people I mentor, and who is now part of one of our subsidiaries, came to me with the request if he could spend money to get a logo.


my repsonse.

SURE

as soon as you get your first sale.

He was out the door in 40 seconds.


Lets see when he gets his logo...


Z
 

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