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integrity

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@JasonR, thanks for an excellent thread.

It had originally flown over my head a few weeks ago as I was doing mostly affiliate stuff, but re-reading it now makes me realize this is just as important no matter what you are doing.

In fact, this should be especially important for affiliate marketers.

While affiliates are only getting paid $40/sale (for example), the offer owners are making much more than that on the back end. So when it comes time to driving traffic to these offers, affiliates are already at a huge disadvantage when it comes to getting the lion's share of traffic volume at a profitable CPC for them, as the product owners themselves can afford to pay much more for clicks.

The solution? Increase your LCV -- Like you said.

And how do you increase your LCV as an affiliate? Build a funnel with more affiliate offers.

Gold thread man. So sorry to hear about the scumbags attempting to rip your business. I'm sure you'll resolve that quickly.
 
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Emanuel

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When you have people copying you and stealing your ideas, you know you're on the right track :) Every copycatter you find should give you more motivation to continue improving your project. Just keep your head up and continue moving forward. I'm sure you learned a lot from this problem you're facing.

Remember, it's great to share your experiences and knowledge but it's never a good idea to share everything you know. Some details are best left untold.

Good luck!
 

Mike Kavanagh

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In the spirit of giving value, I believe its in the overall best interest to keep this post up.
Sad to see you go however I'm happy that you stayed as long as you did. Sometimes 1 person ruins it for everyone...
You've been an inspiration and a help to me personally.

Thank you
Mike
 
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RHL

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Jason really laid it all on the line to help other people. The crappiest thing about this is that this dude gave away, in various places on the internet, information worth tens of thousands of dollars in terms of how to blow up a kind of nondescript product to "Immanent Retirement" levels. Every time some douche does this, people who have succeeded are going to withdraw farther and farther away from wage slaves hoping to get out and let them twist in the wind of uncertainty and goo-roo flatulence.

If the copycat has any kind of Amazon, Google+, etc. sales front we should light that sucker up with a dearth of negative reviews.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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I think Jason will be back when I start bragging about beating him in Fantasy Football. ;) I'll make sure to gloat here.

In all seriousness, guys read the SECRECY thread. Contribute to the forum in a manner which doesn't jeopardize your own meat and potatoes. There are plenty of things you can share without handing out the keys to your castle.

I think Jason became too visible and open for his own good, the Reddit thread, this thread + the INSIDERS thread, and then the ForeverJobless podcast ... all of this accumulated into something a few individuals (I'm sure there might be others as @IceCreamKid mentioned) found all too easy to copy, and I mean COPY. The real danger is linking your business to actual sales/profit figures as this sets you up to be a target. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm excusing this slime-bucket because I'm not. It just really makes me sick and proves once again, the 1% f*ck it up for the other 99%.

As for the offender, I contacted him seeking explanation and then I removed him. And if anyone else wants to repeat the same type of thievery, you will be removed as well.

Hopefully Jason will recover from this and find it just a nuisance to his business and not a threat.

Ohh yea, and YOU CANNOT HIDE. Steal and you will be outed. Both times the person thought they could covertly copy and slither away unnoticed. Nope.
 
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randomnumber314

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I think Jason will be back when I start bragging about beating him in Fantasy Football. ;) I'll make sure to gloat here.

In all seriousness, guys read the SECRECY thread. Contribute to the forum in a manner which doesn't jeopardize your own meat and potatoes. There are plenty of things you can share without handing out the keys to your castle.

I think Jason became too visible and open for his own good, the Reddit thread, this thread + the INSIDERS thread, and then the ForeverJobless podcast ... all of this accumulated into something a few individuals (I'm sure there might be others as @IceCreamKid mentioned) found all too easy to copy, and I mean COPY. The real danger is linking your business to actual sales/profit figures as this sets you up to be a target. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm excusing this slime-bucket because I'm not. It just really makes me sick and proves once again, the 1% f*ck it up for the other 99%.

As for the offender, I contacted him seeking explanation and then I removed him. And if anyone else wants to repeat the same type of thievery, you will be removed as well.

Hopefully Jason will recover from this and find it just a nuisance to his business and not a threat.

Ohh yea, and YOU CANNOT HIDE. Steal and you will be outed.

This thread blew up today, but it gave me a good reminder to give thanks where it is due. Jason's reddit AMA lead me to the Millionaire Fastlane book, which lead me to this forum, which was the fire under my butt I needed to get out and start doing something, which lead me to start my company.

So Jason, you have provided incredible value in your publicity, it's too bad that others try to copy you in an attempt to shortcut--which most of us know can't be done. I know it may not mean much to you, to have some random idiot in Minnesota running a small company, but were it not for your AMA I might still be "searching for the magic answers"

Rep transferred.
 
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RHL

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he really did copy everything. Even the FB page layout, design, and implementation.

BUT GUISE I WUZ JUST DOING IT TO LEARN COPY
 
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marklov

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It will be sad to see Jason go but I have learned so much as a matter of fact my greatest moment of clarity so far came from reflecting on some of the huge a$$ gold nuggets he dropped.

Im glad this thread will remain here because I like to look through it from time to time to get that fire relit.

You have provided tons of value to a lot of people Jason and don't you forget that :)
 
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Five Star

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Sorry to hear that this has happened especially by someone on this forum! It'll definitely put people off posting too much info, which is a real shame.

Trying to learn from this, how can someone protect their business? Don't businesses get copied / emulated all the time by competitors, unless there is a product patent in place? I am in no way condoning it by the way, just trying to understand....
 

SteveO

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Businesses will always be copied. The problem here is that this person used information that Jason gave to people to help them start a business, to directly compete with him.
 

Vigilante

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Businesses will always be copied. The problem here is that this person used information that Jason gave to people to help them start a business, to directly compete with him.

Beyond that. Stole images, copy, format, and other possible IP. It's one thing if you want to compete with Nike. It's second thing if competition, in your eyes, is to "borrow" Nike's intellectual property.

The last time this happened on the forum, it had a chilling effect on fast laner's interest in sharing.

Keep in mind, on this forum, and even in the INSIDERS group... the ratio of people lurking to contributing is probably 100-1.

There was actually one jackass that went to a non-sanctioned meet up, met a bunch of people, heard a bunch of business details, and left the meet up to go replicate and copy the people he met.

If you don't know the difference between capturing a process and emulating success, and stealing intellectual property, then leave. Now. Just get the f*ck out of here. This is not the first time this has happened, and won't be the last.

People ask MJ for specific details about how to create a limos.com type of aggregator service. I can guarantee you that rather than people absorbing the thought process and paradigm shift he outlined in The Millionaire Fast Lane, there have probably been more than one dumb a$$ that have tried to replicate limos.com.

"Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're the greatest. So can you tell me specifically how you advertised Limos.com?"

As if. As if it even matters. MJ, you're not afraid of a little competition, are you? Tell me exactly what steps you took to cash out ten years ago, will you? I don't need all the BS, just the business plan and code. Thanx.
 
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twdavis

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Ah man this reminds me of that time biophase got ripped off for that soap. Gota say this is much worse by the sound of it.

All the best though, this was/is a great thread.
I've only been on here a year but I believe @biophase got ripped off on a different type of ecommerce site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Mike Kavanagh

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I've only been on here a year but I believe @biophase got ripped off on a different type of ecommerce site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's human nature to take the path of least resistance but ethics are also instilled in almost everyone at a young age. That is why I'm flabbergasted at the fact that this has happened not once or twice but many times. Twice to @biophase if I remember correctly.

I'm all for a VIP or Hustler's section. I think the democratic process would be the best way to go. However, it's likely to not even be safe there.
 

dotyy

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Hate cheaters. It's a shame someone decided to be lazy. Well, it caught up to them.

Anyone have a link to the AMA on reddit? I can't seem to find it.
 
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dotyy

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Hopefully it's been taken down or heavily edited just so no one else takes a stab.

I don't think Jason would take it down though.
I don't believe the AMA has any information in it. I think that's what the thread about secrecy was about. I was just curious to see what everyone was mentioning.
 

niftyg

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Wow... I come back to the forum after several weeks of developing my business and this....?

It makes me so sad that this is has become such a BIG forum, but on the other hand, I only found out about it a year or two ago myself.

I kept thinking if I ever had a great idea how I would share everything with everyone.... at least this has given me a very good reminder of what the mass of the internet can do.

I guess those paranoid 'people might copy me' folks might be right.....
 
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RHL

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I guess those paranoid 'people might copy me' folks might be right.....

I think MJ had it exactly right in his book. Unless your idea is very, very, very special, it's not at risk until it's successful. If you disclose an idea and execute on it, you can't talk about how successful it is. If you disclose your success, you can't talk about your idea. People have gone both ways on this on the forum and been fine, note that Likwid never talks profits even though tons of his product is out there (he also has a patent, which helps), while ChickenHawk never talks about the genre or name of her books but does talk about sales.

Regrettably, because he was excited and kind and helpful and people are shit, Jason did both, and I think the straw that broke the camel's back was definitely the ForeverJobless pod cast. IMO (although, again, this is just me thinking it through, it's not like I'm a veteran of fielding interviews), anybody doing a business podcast wherein they disclose ANY specifics about their business is making a HORRIBLE mistake, for the following reason:

Really, the only reason to take time off from executing to field interviews is to promote your product. That's why people go on talk shows and late night shows and do Reddit AMAs. Ever notice how 99.99% of actors and authors only do it when a new movie/book is coming out? Therefore, you want to go to casts/interviews for put on by websites/groups/or podcasts that aggregate large groups OF YOUR POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS for easy access. Going to Forever Jobless as an entrepreneur isn't doing that, it's going to do an interview to a group that aggregates your competition and gives them easy, anonymous access to YOU. FJ benefits with a wildly successful podcast about a wildly successful business owner, FJ's listeners benefit by getting an extremely clear and comprehensive path to success including vital information about how to avoid blind alleys and pitfalls. The only person who doesn't really get anything from it is Jason, and although that makes him a great guy, unfortunately the world is such that our desire to help others can help they destroy us if we're not careful. Jason now has two competitors who are ranked more highly in a google search for his product than he is.

For Jason, he should have angled for an interview on a pet supply website or a pet owner's podcast, but never for FJ. The FJ podcast was a bad decision because people listening to FJ will only give a shit about *buying* his product if its by accidental overlap, they're entrepreneurs who randomly happen to be pet owners. Most of them won't care about buying his product though, but almost all of them will care quite intensely about *selling* his product, because they see that he is "jobless" and they want that too.

It sucks because he was only trying to help, and it sucks because it cripples the ability of forums like this to provide value to subscribers, but that's the reality in which we live. My guess is that meetups like C&B or the former B&P are going to become more and more important in the future as this site continues to grow.
 
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G

Grimaldo

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Likwid never talks profits even though tons of his product is out there
I would only add that it also affects how EASY it seems to execute. Jason was making a lot of money on ads on facebook. "If I just copy his website and put ads on fb I could make a lot of money too!"
Like copying someone who sells on Amazon. "If I just put the same product on Amazon I can make the same sales!"

If someone is on TV is more difficult to get there and that stops them.

Copycats only see events...
 

KLaw

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If his product was that easy to copy then doesn't that break the barrier to entry commandment? Just curious.
 
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ExecutionisKing

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If his product was that easy to copy then doesn't that break the barrier to entry commandment? Just curious.

It was "easy" to copy when you STEAL everything needed. SteveO and Vig said it best:

Businesses will always be copied. The problem here is that this person used information that Jason gave to people to help them start a business, to directly compete with him.

Beyond that. Stole images, copy, format, and other possible IP. It's one thing if you want to compete with Nike. It's second thing if competition, in your eyes, is to "borrow" Nike's intellectual property.

If you don't know the difference between capturing a process and emulating success, and stealing intellectual property, then leave. Now.
 

csalvato

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It was "easy" to copy when you STEAL everything needed. SteveO and Vig said it best:
Yuppp

It's one thing to see a product you love and say, "Oh I can do that better!" and give it a go.

It's another thing entirely to sit in a room with someone telling you about their business, trying to help you, and you turn around and use that confidential info to steal his business.
 

RHL

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If his product was that easy to copy then doesn't that break the barrier to entry commandment? Just curious.

I don't think I'm wrong to say that his product was a little weak in this area in particular. However, the "Commandments" are actually more like guidelines, and every buisiness is going to be more or less vulnerable in certain commandments than others. For example, developing a new kind of cruise missile is going to be very week in the N of CENTS (only a few dozen large buyers worldwide, very expensive, few units ordered), but incredibly strong in the E because you need a team of MIT-trained rocket scientists and a thousand miles of paperwork to break into the field. Ecom businesses are typically weak in entry, but they're still great ways to get rich because they can be pretty strong in the E, S, and T.

However, the inexcusable thing that was done here is that the person took what was already a suboptimal barrier to entry that was inherent to producing an uncomplex commodity and removed basically all of the barrier by stealing the knowledge from Jason's mistakes without paying the price themselves. I can tell you, just in trying to make my youtube channel, I've made mistakes that set me back for months, and a few that cost me over $1,000. Those are my "dues" that I will have paid at the end. When you steal an idea and the execution for it, you're bypassing all those dues, which gives you an insane advantage. For example, another business I started that's supporting me right now, I could begin again from scratch today with only my knowledge of what I did last time and save probably $6,000 and 800-1000 hours of wasted effort. That's the real "crime" that occurred here, that knowledge is the fruit of success, and somebody made off with it without paying for it. They tried to "cheat the grind." I hope Jason smokes them. I don't have any use for his product in my own household but I have three friends that do and I pointed them to his website because I appreciate the insights about advertising he shared.
 
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Wuz

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I think the barrier entry was is marketing.

He discover how to market the product well.
 

RHL

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^ This 105%. That was the area where he went big and cleaned up. IIRC, someone was already making a product like his before he was, but they were strictly small potatoes compared to what he did. He's a marketing genius.
 

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