Takes forever to program my site... Do you also have this problem?

[ollimatrix]

(There is no sub-forum for "execution" - but it's the most important aspect of the Fastlane... Hitting the accelerator! Well, I hope mine fits in here anyways)

--- you can skip all this part if you dont care about my story, and wanna get right into the problem I want to talk about ---

Here's my story: I've had this idea for a website that helps a specific niche/industry and full fills a lot of their needs. The idea first came into full shape after I watched The Social Network... For a couple months I hadn't done anything about this idea however, until like 7 months later a site launched which - at the time I thought - did exactly what I was going to do... crap... Oh well... Around the same time I considered going into business with my own company in exactly this industry which my fastlane idea targets...

I was then searching for ways to make money, had been into Bitcoin mining for a while, and also discovered the book TMF . Even though I thought it started out kind of slow not getting to the point of what I should do to avoid Sidewalk and Slowlane and get into the fast lane, it turned out to be a great eye opener and changed a lot of my views and perspectives. AND it revived the idea for my website. Because after all even though my competitor has over 100,000 members by now, I believe that my website will fill the need better... And will be better in general...

--- continue reading here for the actual topic ---

So after a little bit of name searching I purchased a domain in May 1012. Also around that time in the spring I had done some experimenting with my php skills, working through some tutorials and so on, to improve my coding skills. I was not only coding a whole lot, I was also developing my idea more and more. Kinda both went hand in hand.

So back then in August I had a week off work, because work was closed for a week. I figured I'm really gonna use that week for a coding marathon and launch at the end of the week. But what happened instead was, that I learned about a new coding technique (a more secure way to access my database) and I came up with a couple of ideas how to make my code more structured and easier to maintain. I considered a complete rewrite from scratch - it ended up being a mix between a rewrite and a refactoring session.

Therefore in August I still hadnt launched the site, nor was the site anywhere near launch ready. In the fall my next launching goal was the end of 2012. Because I realized some things about modern webdesign, and issues I had I needed to address - but my CSS skills were practically non existent - I chose to hire a webdesigner for around a thousand bucks. He did an awesome job and contributed a lot to the front end of the site. But between the both of us we didnt launch in 2012. So I aimed for March 2013. It still didn't happen.

However between March and April the Site was at a level where I could create a promotional video and post it on facebook and linkedin. Got about 100 clicks on youtube, 20 email addresses through my landing page, and around 20 - 30 likes on all plattforms. Not bad, and it kind of served as a marked validation for me, and I really really wanted to show my idea to the world...

So when I had a trip coming up in May I was going to release a closed BETA accessible to those who signed up. Because my coding skills had skyrocketed and the scope of the project gotten really big I new I had to do another rewrite/refactoring session soon. I thought I'd launch BETA first - until I realized that all beta testing will be for nothing if I end up changing my code anyways...

So now it's June, I'm still not launched, and I quit setting goals such as "I'll launch in August". My only goal is to code every day for at least one hour.

Has anybody else experienced that? That it takes for-fu(k!ng-EVER to get a website pieced together??

I cant wait to get my service out in the market place I know its going to be awesome! It is going to be a great asset, which I'll be able to scale and expand, while at the same time running completely automated without my time tied to the business. Except for the HUGE amounts of time it's taking me to actually build the asset...

So I was just wondering what your experiences were, if you had any suggestions how to work more effective when it comes to programming a website, or any other comments.

 

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[EastWind]

if you can't program it, hire someone who can program it. be prepared to pay them. you get what you pay for too.

 

[karmazon]

You should release whatever you got, it's never going to be perfect, and this way you'll get feedback from your market not from your own biases.

 

[elliot]

Use Wordpress if your not great at making a site and need something quick my website I just started and don't laugh I created with my gf as a bit of a seo experiment is to do with Gadgets just for girls. I don't know hardly anything about programming but this site was created during one evening this week basically about two hours so its really not hard. I know what your saying is a bit more detailed and you need ideas, etc. I agree with the above post as I remember seeing a project from Dane Maxwells first project when it was launched looked so basic also there is a site with examples like eBay when it first was launched.

 

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[fukrs]

Did you use a php framework like http://symfony.com/ ? Or did you write the code without any framework?
If u stick with a framework it will be simpler to have somebody else developing new features... So you have more time for marketing

 

[DennisD]

I had the problem but I didn't learn to code. I hired somebody. worst mistake of my career. I spent 100% of what I had on a high end developer... sunk thousands and thousands into the guy when I was working a $9/hour job and had a passive income site on the side...

by the end of the whole thing... the guy took off, I had nothing to show for it, I had no savings left and it plummeted me into homelessness.

It's good you're learning to do the work yourself... relying on other people sucks.


I'd release what you have right now. You will ALWAYS find something you need to change. You will always find something you need to update. The code will ALWAYS need a complete overhaul, because you'll keep finding better techniques as you grow, and technology will keep evolving. Was the first version of microsoft word perfect? Was the first version of windows perfect? No. That's why they keep updating and improving and completely overhauling the system.

At some point you've just got to release it, imperfect, knowing you WILL have to redo the entire thing at some point. It's really more important to get feedback from your target market. Yes you will need to rework the coding and backend, but you'll also have to rework the value proposition, design, and front end content... which you'll only figure out once you get customer feedback.

 

[ollimatrix]

Thanks for all the answers!

@EastWind: I do know how to program (except for the front end / CSS) - or at least I'm learning it while I go - it's just that I am coding, coding, coding, and still haven't had it at a level where I'd feel comfortable launching it...

@elliot / fukurs: I chose not to use a CMS or framework or anything, and instead write the entire code from scratch... Mostly because I wanted to and I like the challenge (vs. the challenge of trying to understand someone else's code), but also because of all the ideas I've put into it, I really wanted a custom system, which I can further build on in the future.

@Dennis: Thanks for your response, it was very nice and encouraging to read those lines... Sorry you had such a crappy experience with your contractor :-/

Everybody seems to agree on "just go ahead and release it"...

And I think I discovered something about myself, which I kinda already knew:

I'm a perfectionist because I am afraid of failure.

So I keep perfectionizing things, I keep procrastinating with tasks to keep my busy and I'm keeping the site under development...

so rather than putting the site out there and letting it fail, crash, burn, get hacked, exploited, misused, laughed at, abused, overloaded, frozen, sued, deleted, or whatever horrible thing could happen to it - I continue to rewrite my code to protect it from any errors and scenarios I could think of. :-|

Alright I'm gonna let that realization just stand there for a moment and post again a little later.

 

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[fukrs]

If you rewrite your code, use a framework because 80% of the code was written before. You would save alot time NOT inventing the wheel again and focus on that 20% of code that makes your site unique and awesome. Your code will be more secure and structured. Plus you have the Option to hire somebody later on for New Features to scale

 

[Chris_Willow]

Your app will never be perfect, so it's important to start getting some real customer feedback right away. It also helps growth if you have a bit of money coming in from the beta users.

If you rewrite your code, use a framework because 80% of the code was written before

This is legit advice.

I had a saas app remade with CodeIgniter and that was probably the best programming related decision of my life.

The code is much cleaner, more secure, everything is easier to maintain. And it's easier for other developers to understand everything (which saves you money, of course).

 

[ollimatrix]

Alright, I'll look into some frameworks...

This is kinda OT, but: how do I have to image such a framework? Will it give me essentially a toolbox of functions (like insert into db queries, select from db queries, etc?)



And by the way:

I just made a "silent" BETA launch, sending the link to access beta to the 20 people who signed up with their email on my landing page...

Thanks again everyone!

 

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[dknise]

I had the problem but I didn't learn to code. I hired somebody. worst mistake of my career. I spent 100% of what I had on a high end developer... sunk thousands and thousands into the guy when I was working a $9/hour job and had a passive income site on the side...

by the end of the whole thing... the guy took off, I had nothing to show for it, I had no savings left and it plummeted me into homelessness.

It's good you're learning to do the work yourself... relying on other people sucks.

BAM! I hope healthstatus sees this, Dennis.

There's an ongoing debate thread about whether to learn to code or to outsource, and as a coder I'm strongly for learning to code (I believe healthstatus is a coder too). Having worked for an outsourcing company, I've been personally reprimanded for asking questions, delivering more features in a sprint than were in scope, and gaining a personal relationship with the client. Those sound like great things right? Building an excellent product, higher than expectations, ahead of schedule, with great customer relations? Wrong. They wanted me to come in and do the absolute bare minimum on the project to get by so they could bill for my hours and take their cut. A lot of independent contractors work the same way. They just want to get it and get out, cause let's face it, they do, not, care, about, your, product!

Glad to see you're doing better Dennis.

 

[DennisD]

BAM! I hope healthstatus sees this, Dennis.

There's an ongoing debate thread about whether to learn to code or to outsource, and as a coder I'm strongly for learning to code (I believe healthstatus is a coder too). Having worked for an outsourcing company, I've been personally reprimanded for asking questions, delivering more features in a sprint than were in scope, and gaining a personal relationship with the client. Those sound like great things right? Building an excellent product, higher than expectations, ahead of schedule, with great customer relations? Wrong. They wanted me to come in and do the absolute bare minimum on the project to get by so they could bill for my hours and take their cut. A lot of independent contractors work the same way. They just want to get it and get out, cause let's face it, they do, not, care, about, your, product!

Glad to see you're doing better Dennis.

I've come to the conclusion that the only circumstance I will be working with a coder is if I am his/her full-time employer. I won't want other clients competing for their time, I don't want them chasing the dollar, I don't want them working on a SaaS application or business for themselves.

I want to hire a dedicated individual who cares as much about my mission statement as I do, and has a vested interest in helping my company to succeed. In the time I spent dealing with the individual above, I could have just learned to do it myself.

 

[jayo2k]

It is long, especialy when you are learning while doing.
Before I launched my website, I didn't even know what DOCTYPE!, echo, for loop... meant... That tells a lot. But I was determined to do it. The first results wasn't good at all... I was learning while doing, After like 3 months, I had a website where you could register, log in, comment, post, share, follow people, change background... a fully functional dynamic website in PHP but it didn't met the wanted expectations mainly due to poor CSS. So I went back to programming and learning at the same time and learned a lot. and it took me 4 more months until I get to the final version of the website. I didn't wanted to pay someone because I knew I could learn. Now my website is online, fully functioning and my traffic rank keep increasing every passing days. Once a while I add an option here and there. Like the last option I added was the possibility to send a private message to someone without even going to his page; let say that person's name is "bob", to talk to bob, just type "@bob@Your message..." and that is it. No matter which page you are, when you type this on a text field, bob will receive the message... And since I refused to pay someone to program for me, I learned a lot thus I added that little option in what 5 minutes...
Some will ask me "Why @bob@ and not @bob?" Well, because I wrote a system that you can have whitespace in your username meaning you can be like Bob dole and not Bob_dole if you want to... Believe me, you did right by learning while doing because you won't have to pay someone each time you need to add an option.
You can see my website here (the final version is only 1.5 months old)
buzztc
I encourage you to use it since it help people being seen. some people are promoting their brand on the site

 

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