I was let go from my job today, and a chat about quiet quitting

[Brujah]

You give it your all, but all your income is dependent on that one person who decides your fate.

I'm an American citizen, but I've spent years overseas to be with my family then I was fed up with the conditions of the country I was living in
and moved back to the US with only $5,000 and hope. I got a crappy job at a diner. I worked there diligently for 3 years, often pulling 12-hour shifts. At first, I was really bad at it, but after two years, I persevered and became one of the servers who made the most money. One day, a customer complained, and I got fired. All my tenacity and work in those 3 years? Gone. In one single day. Then I enrolled in a coding BootCamp. I've spent months of hell trying to learn to code and change my life while the money in my checking account was dwindling every day as we couldn't work during the BootCamp. 10 months later, I finally landed a job at a tech company. Then COVID happened. People got laid off, I survived, but I wasn't happy.

They completely changed my job role, I offered to volunteer for tasks, but they didn't let me. I still did what I was assigned to; I started out as a web developer, turned into content manager, handling SEO on the side. I graduated with a degree in architecture, worked as a web designer. I'm a jack-of-all-trades but master of none.

Half of the company quit, but I stayed for the paycheck. Big mistake. "Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do" "the client isn't paying us enough for the solutions you produce".

Every Sunday night, I went to bed with crippling anxiety, not able to sleep. My entire livelihood being dependent on a single source and today my worst fear came true. I have no income and no health insurance.

I've been following these forums for about 6 years now. I've always wanted to have my own business, but I made excuses, and I was exhausted from the emotional toll my jobs took on me. I've read The Millionaire Fastlane but didn't take action, and I regret it very deeply, but I've learned my lesson. From now on, I'll do whatever it takes to build an independent income, to get away from the corporate drones and the rat race.

I don't aspire to be super-rich. I just want enough independent income to visit my aging parents in my country and not worry about meeting my basic living expenses. I think today sealed the deal for me. It was the push that I needed.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Bekit]

You give it your all, but all your income is dependent on that one person who decides your fate.

I'm an American citizen, but I've spent years overseas to be with my family then I was fed up with the conditions of the country I was living in
and moved back to the US with only $5,000 and hope. I got a crappy job at a diner. I worked there diligently for 3 years, often pulling 12-hour shifts. At first, I was really bad at it, but after two years, I persevered and became one of the servers who made the most money. One day, a customer complained, and I got fired. All my tenacity and work in those 3 years? Gone. In one single day. Then I enrolled in a coding BootCamp. I've spent months of hell trying to learn to code and change my life while the money in my checking account was dwindling every day as we couldn't work during the BootCamp. 10 months later, I finally landed a job at a tech company. Then COVID happened. People got laid off, I survived, but I wasn't happy.

They completely changed my job role, I offered to volunteer for tasks, but they didn't let me. I still did what I was assigned to; I started out as a web developer, turned into content manager, handling SEO on the side. I graduated with a degree in architecture, worked as a web designer. I'm a jack-of-all-trades but master of none.

Half of the company quit, but I stayed for the paycheck. Big mistake. "Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do" "the client isn't paying us enough for the solutions you produce".

Every Sunday night, I went to bed with crippling anxiety, not able to sleep. My entire livelihood being dependent on a single source and today my worst fear came true. I have no income and no health insurance.

I've been following these forums for about 6 years now. I've always wanted to have my own business, but I made excuses, and I was exhausted from the emotional toll my jobs took on me. I've read The Millionaire Fastlane but didn't take action, and I regret it very deeply, but I've learned my lesson. From now on, I'll do whatever it takes to build an independent income, to get away from the corporate drones and the rat race.

I don't aspire to be super-rich. I just want enough independent income to visit my aging parents in my country and not worry about meeting my basic living expenses. I think today sealed the deal for me. It was the push that I needed.

Sorry you got let go.

It sounds like you have been in some terribly toxic environments.

But it also sounds like you have developed some skillsets that are extremely versatile and transferable.

What if you get some good, solid rest over the next few days, take a step back and assess all your options, and spring for the one that looks the most reliable.

If I were in your shoes, I would at LEAST want some income rolling in the door while you regroup, recover from the burnout that your previous position has caused you, and take steps toward your plan. Even if that means working as a server again temporarily, just get paid something, somehow. Otherwise, anxiety will skyrocket if you are stressing over basic survival.

Questions I would be asking....

• Are you in a city?
• How high is your local cost of living?
• Can you move somewhere cheaper? (Not to the ghetto, but to a more affordable state or region)
• What are your local job options?
• Can you move somewhere with better job options?
• What are your remote job options?
• What kind of work is going to be the easiest for you to land?
• What kind of work is going to be the best pay in exchange for the least stress?
• What kind of work is going to be the best pay in exchange for the least time?
• What are the 3-5 companies who would be your dream employers? I know your endgame is not a job, but if the wolf is at the door, your fastlane journey will be severely hindered.
• On the other hand, if you have some savings and a little bit of runway, what business can you start and get profitable fast? (The obvious one seems like web design since you already know that - have you read @Fox 's book The $1 Million Web Designer Guide?)

 

[Xeon]

When you do work for another company again, remember to practice quiet-quitting.

 

[Bekit]

When you do work for another company again, remember to practice quiet-quitting.

Here's my pushback on that.

When I was working for one of those companies (The toxic ones, the kind that really deserve for their employees to quiet quit, the ones who keep saying, as OP put it, "Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do"), I felt this immense pressure to do just that.

Just check out.

Just settle for doing what I was told.

Just stop going above and beyond.

Just stop thinking.

Just do the bare minimum.

Just jump through their hoops and collect a paycheck.

You know why I didn't do that?

Because I knew that behavior would change ME.

Who I am is a curious, intelligent, creative problem solver. Who I am is someone who goes above and beyond. Who I am is a leader. Who I am is someone who doesn't just settle for "it can't be done" just because my boss said so.

And if I don't fit in because my employer doesn't appreciate me being that way, I need a different job. (Or, of course, a fastlane business.)

If I had "quiet quit" in those days, it would have subtly broken me.

If I had ever consented to bow to that pressure, one part of me would believe that "it was good for my survival to do this," but another part of me would have known that I was relinquishing my sense of agency, my ability to make my own choices, my right to engage with my surrounding and assert who I was and how I would participate.

This would have created immense cognitive dissonance. It would have suggested to me that "maybe I'm not all those good things that I define myself as." It would have made me ashamed of myself, my effort, my output, and my quality as a human being. It would have made me see myself as a parasite and a sidewalker and a low-caliber person.

This mindset shift would have been reinforced when I eventually got fired and I knew I only had myself to thank for it due to not putting in legitimate effort.

And once I reached that point, it would have taken a massive amount of effort to build back to the same habits and personal standards and strength of mind I had previously.

It's one thing to ACTUALLY quit. By all means, do that. The minute you discover that an employer is toxic, start sending out your resume and land a different position in a better environment. There is no point in putting up with abuse at work. That kind of employer should not be rewarded with one more minute of your time, even if you're just hanging around leeching off them as long as possible. Just being in that kind of environment is not worth the toll on your mental health.

So in my mind, quiet quitting is not the answer. It keeps you in a toxic environment when you could have pivoted into a better one. It damages the individual who does it. And it doesn't really solve anything.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[c23r]

I would try the following:

Are you still in contact with your ex-colleagues?
Where did they go?
Are there jobs available at their company?
Can they recommend you?

 

[c23r]

Who I am is a curious, intelligent, creative problem solver. Who I am is someone who goes above and beyond. Who I am is a leader. Who I am is someone who doesn't just settle for "it can't be done" just because my boss said so.

And if I don't fit in because my employer doesn't appreciate me being that way, I need a different job. (Or, of course, a fastlane business.)

If I had "quiet quit" in those days, it would have subtly broken me.

Interesting thought.
I just can't stop thinking how to improve things, even if I wanted.

 

[Oso]

This mindset shift would have been reinforced when I eventually got fired and I knew I only had myself to thank for it due to not putting in legitimate effort.

Unfortunately the world isn't black/white and the entire system is setup to make you believe if you aren't killing yourself to make others rich, then you're simply adding to the problem. Corporations get away with how they treat people because of mentalities such as these.

You can give your employer exactly the amount of effort they deserve/pay you for without sacrificing your personal standards/integrity. You "quiet quit" at work, but the instant you go home, you turn into the problem solving, technically-inclined monster you seem to be. I'm a web developer (for a "career") and implement this very logic myself.

Having said all that, ultimately the point is moot as you've already been fired. I suppose that IS the point though. Regardless of whether or not you gave them your full-a$$ or half-a$$, they still control and determine the outcome of your employment.

While I am sincerely sorry for you being fired, it simply emphasizes your point of you more than likely being better off as the boss vs being the employee.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[SteveO]

When you do work for another company again, remember to practice quiet-quitting.

This is one of the ways that people with no integrity go about their life...

 

[SteveO]

All my tenacity and work in those 3 years? Gone. In one single day.

Not gone. Life experiences that you will carry with you.

 

[Oso]

This is one of the ways that people with no integrity go about their life...

This is one of the ways people that know their value go about their life.

Edit: I do agree with the sentiment of "your work isn't gone, it simply turns into life experience."

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[SteveO]

This is one of the ways people that know their value go about their life.

So you lie and cheat your way into value...

 

[Oso]

So you lie and cheat your way into value...

How is it lying and cheating? Lying would be claiming I'm a web developer, get a web developer job, and then it turns out... I can't code and don't know shit about web development. That would also count as "cheating your way into value."

I'm simply encouraging people to "act their wage," and understand that having a job doesn't mean the company owns you.

 

[SteveO]

How is it lying and cheating? Lying would be claiming I'm a web developer, get a web developer job, and then it turns out... I can't code and don't know shit about web development. That would also count as "cheating your way into value."

I'm simply encouraging people to "act their wage," and understand that having a job doesn't mean the company owns you.

Of course they don't. Can't people find their way without stealing?

I had a guy that was on salary and wasn't working very much. He told one of the other workers that he wasn't paid enough to work more hours. So I let him go find a place where he would be. We made an original agreement that he did not fulfill.

It is also lying to quit fulfilling what you are being paid to do without actually doing it.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Oso]

Of course they don't. Can't people find their way without stealing?

I had a guy that was on salary and wasn't working very much. He told one of the other workers that he wasn't paid enough to work more hours. So I let him go find a place where he would be. We made an original agreement that he did not fulfill.

Right, but that right there. There's a difference between "quiet quitting" and someone being outright useless/lazy.

 

[SteveO]

Right, but that right there. There's a difference between "quiet quitting" and someone being outright useless/lazy. Here, I'll give you a personal example.

At 31, my girlfriend has been in healthcare for 10 years now. 3 years ago, a fresh-graduate entered her office. Said new girl has friends in both HR and is friends with one of the in-office doctors. Within 1 year of being in the industry, said girl was promoted in front of my girlfriend and the other 3 women that have been there for 10+ years (despite a flawless history of work performance, etc.). Cool, she has connections.

The problem is she's a monster. She makes everyone miserable, says extremely outlandish things (to the extent of she shouldn't have a job), and she constantly takes responsibility away from everyone else. All of the doctors turn and look the other way because "it doesn't immediately effect them, so they don't care."

It is now to the point of if you complain about said person, you're told you're not a team player, you're toxic, etc. despite the fact it's THIS ONE PERSON making EVERYONE miserable. Recently, my girlfriend informed me herself and 3 other office workers are planning on leaving. Their office is about to lose a combined 40+ years of experience because 1 person is on a power trip.

This is what I'm talking about. They did everything by the books and the problem persists. In an industry people are already flocking away from in droves, toxicity is still encouraged. And unfortunately, this same story can be told about any industry.

When the people in charge don't care about the well-being of those below them, they create a breeding ground filled with resentful, miserable employees that feel completely unheard, which leads to... you guessed it! Quiet quitting.

Thankfully times are changing. The days of being expected to act as an emotionless work drone are long-gone and I hope they never return.

Edit: Perhaps the confusion comes from the definition of "quit quitting." It is essentially doing the job you agreed to do, without going above and beyond. These people are still doing their jobs to the fullest extent. They're simply now acknowledging that they're nothing more than a number and their attitude reflects that.

Sorry. I got myself into a slowlane conversation that I don't understand. I have a different definition.

To the OP, sorry that I hijacked your thread.

 

[Oso]

Sorry. I got myself into a slowlane conversation that I don't understand. I have a different definition.

To the OP, sorry that I hijacked your thread.

Guess that's the problem with most bosses/companies. It's easier to look away and say, "care about my profit," then it is to make sure your employees are happy. Good luck though, my dude, something tells me you're going to need it.

OP: Also sorry if I participated in hijacking.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

You give it your all, but all your income is dependent on that one person who decides your fate.

I'm an American citizen, but I've spent years overseas to be with my family then I was fed up with the conditions of the country I was living in
and moved back to the US with only $5,000 and hope. I got a crappy job at a diner. I worked there diligently for 3 years, often pulling 12-hour shifts. At first, I was really bad at it, but after two years, I persevered and became one of the servers who made the most money. One day, a customer complained, and I got fired. All my tenacity and work in those 3 years? Gone. In one single day. Then I enrolled in a coding BootCamp. I've spent months of hell trying to learn to code and change my life while the money in my checking account was dwindling every day as we couldn't work during the BootCamp. 10 months later, I finally landed a job at a tech company. Then COVID happened. People got laid off, I survived, but I wasn't happy.

They completely changed my job role, I offered to volunteer for tasks, but they didn't let me. I still did what I was assigned to; I started out as a web developer, turned into content manager, handling SEO on the side. I graduated with a degree in architecture, worked as a web designer. I'm a jack-of-all-trades but master of none.

Half of the company quit, but I stayed for the paycheck. Big mistake. "Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do" "the client isn't paying us enough for the solutions you produce".

Every Sunday night, I went to bed with crippling anxiety, not able to sleep. My entire livelihood being dependent on a single source and today my worst fear came true. I have no income and no health insurance.

I've been following these forums for about 6 years now. I've always wanted to have my own business, but I made excuses, and I was exhausted from the emotional toll my jobs took on me. I've read The Millionaire Fastlane but didn't take action, and I regret it very deeply, but I've learned my lesson. From now on, I'll do whatever it takes to build an independent income, to get away from the corporate drones and the rat race.

I don't aspire to be super-rich. I just want enough independent income to visit my aging parents in my country and not worry about meeting my basic living expenses. I think today sealed the deal for me. It was the push that I needed.

How you do anything, is how you do everything. This dedication to your employer and jobs will lead to great things in your business.

Don't be hard on yourself, give yourself some due credit.

Also, if you can be a server/waiter and deal with the public effectively, you're well ahead of the game.

Think of your experiences as business training. And you scored excellent in the training.

Good luck though, my dude, something tells me you're going to need it.

He owns a golf course with probably 50 employees on payroll. I'd say he's already dismissed luck as a factor in his success. This is why he takes issue with slouches who show up to get their check, but don't show up to do their job.

 

[Yogi_Fastlane]

You give it your all, but all your income is dependent on that one person who decides your fate.

I'm an American citizen, but I've spent years overseas to be with my family then I was fed up with the conditions of the country I was living in
and moved back to the US with only $5,000 and hope. I got a crappy job at a diner. I worked there diligently for 3 years, often pulling 12-hour shifts. At first, I was really bad at it, but after two years, I persevered and became one of the servers who made the most money. One day, a customer complained, and I got fired. All my tenacity and work in those 3 years? Gone. In one single day. Then I enrolled in a coding BootCamp. I've spent months of hell trying to learn to code and change my life while the money in my checking account was dwindling every day as we couldn't work during the BootCamp. 10 months later, I finally landed a job at a tech company. Then COVID happened. People got laid off, I survived, but I wasn't happy.

They completely changed my job role, I offered to volunteer for tasks, but they didn't let me. I still did what I was assigned to; I started out as a web developer, turned into content manager, handling SEO on the side. I graduated with a degree in architecture, worked as a web designer. I'm a jack-of-all-trades but master of none.

Half of the company quit, but I stayed for the paycheck. Big mistake. "Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do" "the client isn't paying us enough for the solutions you produce".

Every Sunday night, I went to bed with crippling anxiety, not able to sleep. My entire livelihood being dependent on a single source and today my worst fear came true. I have no income and no health insurance.

I've been following these forums for about 6 years now. I've always wanted to have my own business, but I made excuses, and I was exhausted from the emotional toll my jobs took on me. I've read The Millionaire Fastlane but didn't take action, and I regret it very deeply, but I've learned my lesson. From now on, I'll do whatever it takes to build an independent income, to get away from the corporate drones and the rat race.

I don't aspire to be super-rich. I just want enough independent income to visit my aging parents in my country and not worry about meeting my basic living expenses. I think today sealed the deal for me. It was the push that I needed.

Hi Brujah,

I can relate with you, almost everyone doing a job faces this situation and it hurts bad to those people who take their jobs too seriously, It's tough overcoming an environment which limits you, I think people need to be more self-aware while working for a company. You work for the wage, not for the role/position or the Failure/Success of the Company that job is with the Corporate team.

My manager used to say passion is a must for the role, he himself quit the job when promotion was denied to him for someone relatively unknown just because the other person had a bigger college on their resume, be passionate for the in-demand skill or work.

Never put all your eggs in one basket, Side hustle~Moonlighting is a MUST for anyone working in a job in the present day, the data says so, you can check people's profiles on LinkedIn, very few actually work longer than 3 years for a company especially in the IT sector unless you land in the Corporate management roles, all the other guys working in other areas are considered dispensable and that essentially means Blue-collar workers, the promises, the bonds, agreements are all fake shit.

If you developed this mindset, you won't be unhappy right now, MJ called this Fastlane mindset, the one you described is the Slowlane mindset which is bound to fail.

Ok, I understand not everyone can start on the Fastlane, you need to get to the Right place (Country), Create enough savings to survive (6 months worth), and Find the right set of people (Start making connections, it may take years)
There is no shame to start small as well, either do a job with moonlighting or maybe do a business which doesn't provide a lot of future scope but provides a lot more control than being in a job, who knows you can perhaps identify a market need meanwhile developing the connections from a fastlane perspective.

Times will be tough, as tough as losing a job and that will be the daily norm but they will get better gradually and permanently.

You have got the skills, you need to identify a Market need using Worst Case Consequence Analysis (WCCA) and Weighted Average Decision Matrix (WADM), if you're doing what everyone else is doing, you won't succeed, Facebook is redundant and if you create Facebook that will fail, Try to find new solutions to existing problems, Facebook solved the community problems with connectivity, later it solved boredom, today it solves nothing with the evolution of Whatsapp and Instagram.

The market "need" you would identify should sound ridiculous to the extent that few people have tried it, innovate upon the same.

 

[BizyDad]

Good luck though, my dude, something tells me you're going to need it.

That was the comedy I didn't know I needed today.

It's easier to look away

Only someone who doesn't have employees thinks this. It's not a profit vs employees equation. It's not easier to look away, because looking away ultimately impacts your profit.

It's easier to let the person go. If someone is mentally checked out, they should go. Make allowances for life events, etc, ok, but setting those aside, if the problem is simply "I don't like my boss so I'm going to do the bare minimum required of me", then someone has to initiate that break up. Either the employer fires them or the employee should actually quit.

Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do" "the client isn't paying us enough for the solutions you produce".

But would the clients actually pay if they knew these solutions existed? What problems are you/did you solve? This is how the seeds of business ideas are planted.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Antifragile]

How is it lying and cheating? Lying would be claiming I'm a web developer, get a web developer job, and then it turns out... I can't code and don't know shit about web development. That would also count as "cheating your way into value."

I'm simply encouraging people to "act their wage," and understand that having a job doesn't mean the company owns you.

How you act at your job is just an indication of how you’ll act in all aspects of your life. Typically I’d wager a bet on anyone “quiet quitting” never making it as an entrepreneur. People like that lack the grit required.

Also, how do you define “act your wage”? How do you remove your own bias from thinking you are worth more than you are paid? You are in for a shock when you realize that your value isn’t decided by you! Instead, market decides what you are worth. Same with your business’ products or services.

 

[Kevin88660]

You give it your all, but all your income is dependent on that one person who decides your fate.

I'm an American citizen, but I've spent years overseas to be with my family then I was fed up with the conditions of the country I was living in
and moved back to the US with only $5,000 and hope. I got a crappy job at a diner. I worked there diligently for 3 years, often pulling 12-hour shifts. At first, I was really bad at it, but after two years, I persevered and became one of the servers who made the most money. One day, a customer complained, and I got fired. All my tenacity and work in those 3 years? Gone. In one single day. Then I enrolled in a coding BootCamp. I've spent months of hell trying to learn to code and change my life while the money in my checking account was dwindling every day as we couldn't work during the BootCamp. 10 months later, I finally landed a job at a tech company. Then COVID happened. People got laid off, I survived, but I wasn't happy.

They completely changed my job role, I offered to volunteer for tasks, but they didn't let me. I still did what I was assigned to; I started out as a web developer, turned into content manager, handling SEO on the side. I graduated with a degree in architecture, worked as a web designer. I'm a jack-of-all-trades but master of none.

Half of the company quit, but I stayed for the paycheck. Big mistake. "Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do" "the client isn't paying us enough for the solutions you produce".

Every Sunday night, I went to bed with crippling anxiety, not able to sleep. My entire livelihood being dependent on a single source and today my worst fear came true. I have no income and no health insurance.

I've been following these forums for about 6 years now. I've always wanted to have my own business, but I made excuses, and I was exhausted from the emotional toll my jobs took on me. I've read The Millionaire Fastlane but didn't take action, and I regret it very deeply, but I've learned my lesson. From now on, I'll do whatever it takes to build an independent income, to get away from the corporate drones and the rat race.

I don't aspire to be super-rich. I just want enough independent income to visit my aging parents in my country and not worry about meeting my basic living expenses. I think today sealed the deal for me. It was the push that I needed.

Find a job with health insurance that also gives you some free time? It doesn’t have to pay too well.

 

[Antifragile]

Guess that's the problem with most bosses/companies. It's easier to look away and say, "care about my profit," then it is to make sure your employees are happy. Good luck though, my dude, something tells me you're going to need it.

OP: Also sorry if I participated in hijacking.

You seem to have a victim mentality with “brilliant” insights. I encourage you to use the search function of this forum and learn what Steve did over the years. It’s a hard path that led to living life on his own terms. Your little “good luck” was funny because of how badly you missed the mark. This forum exists to encourage and learn from each other. Some needed it more than others.

Gold threads from Steve will also serve well to the OP. Don’t let this get you down. This is your FTE, now you climb up from here. You can do it and plenty of people are here to help you succeed.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

Sorry to hear you were let go, but at the same time, I am happy to see the revelation you got from it.

Remember the enemy of the best isn’t always some disaster, it can be second best. A comfortable job can lead to complacency and an reduced motivation for something better.

There is some new generation garbage advice in this thread, but it’s pretty easy to filter.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

Here's my pushback on that.

When I was working for one of those companies (The toxic ones, the kind that really deserve for their employees to quiet quit, the ones who keep saying, as OP put it, "Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do"), I felt this immense pressure to do just that.

Just check out.

Just settle for doing what I was told.

Just stop going above and beyond.

Just stop thinking.

Just do the bare minimum.

Just jump through their hoops and collect a paycheck.

You know why I didn't do that?

Because I knew that behavior would change ME.

Who I am is a curious, intelligent, creative problem solver. Who I am is someone who goes above and beyond. Who I am is a leader. Who I am is someone who doesn't just settle for "it can't be done" just because my boss said so.

And if I don't fit in because my employer doesn't appreciate me being that way, I need a different job. (Or, of course, a fastlane business.)

If I had "quiet quit" in those days, it would have subtly broken me.

If I had ever consented to bow to that pressure, one part of me would believe that "it was good for my survival to do this," but another part of me would have known that I was relinquishing my sense of agency, my ability to make my own choices, my right to engage with my surrounding and assert who I was and how I would participate.

This would have created immense cognitive dissonance. It would have suggested to me that "maybe I'm not all those good things that I define myself as." It would have made me ashamed of myself, my effort, my output, and my quality as a human being. It would have made me see myself as a parasite and a sidewalker and a low-caliber person.

This mindset shift would have been reinforced when I eventually got fired and I knew I only had myself to thank for it due to not putting in legitimate effort.

And once I reached that point, it would have taken a massive amount of effort to build back to the same habits and personal standards and strength of mind I had previously.

It's one thing to ACTUALLY quit. By all means, do that. The minute you discover that an employer is toxic, start sending out your resume and land a different position in a better environment. There is no point in putting up with abuse at work. That kind of employer should not be rewarded with one more minute of your time, even if you're just hanging around leeching off them as long as possible. Just being in that kind of environment is not worth the toll on your mental health.

So in my mind, quiet quitting is not the answer. It keeps you in a toxic environment when you could have pivoted into a better one. It damages the individual who does it. And it doesn't really solve anything.

Bekit, are you on LinkedIn?

You know those super cringey smiling faces who act as LinkedIn influencers but are really just recruiters for big corporations and write those cheesy feel good posts like "your employer should let you never work! who's with me?"

Well, you need to go on there and write posts like THIS to combat that!

This is AWESOME!!!

 

[Oso]

You seem to have a victim mentality with “brilliant” insights. I encourage you to use the search function of this forum and learn what Steve did over the years. It’s a hard path that led to living life on his own terms. Your little “good luck” was funny because of how badly you missed the mark. This forum exists to encourage and learn from each other. Some needed it more than others.

Gold threads from Steve will also serve well to the OP. Don’t let this get you down. This is your FTE, now you climb up from here. You can do it and plenty of people are here to help you succeed.

Thank you for your input, however I do not have a victim mentality. There is a cause and effect to everything in life, and I'm simply pointing it out based on what I've seen (out of/from others/my past employees), personal experiences, and data. Yes, there will always be lazy and entitled people. Similarly, there will always be overworked and underappreciated people.

I'm well aware of his golf course/contributions based on his past posts I've seen. Having said that, while I personally have not hired/fired more than ~30 people (vs his 50++), I'd be open to betting you that the data points to the same conclusion:

when you treat your employees like actual people, they tend to care more about doing an amazing job and making you money; they tend to be open to staying late/coming early and going above and beyond. When you make it abundantly clear all you care about is profit, then you tend to get employees that ultimately don't care (call it "quiet quitting," "jerking off at their cubicle," etc. it's all the same).

There's a balance between "F*ck you, make me money" and treating people like people. You can be pro-profit while not treating people like empty seats. There's a reason companies have been struggling to find qualified, experienced workers. While not all of is the company's fault, a good portion of it tends go back to "pay" and "how they're treated." So much so, that if you look at employer review websites (Glassdoor, etc.) you'll find the 2 most referenced "cons" are in regards to "pay" and "how they treat you."

I appreciate you pushing me to explain my stance, and I hope we both walk away from this having gained some type of additional insight.

P.S. I'd like to believe @SteveO understands I was simply debating the best course of action for handling employees, not outright disrespecting his stance, and/or the way he handles his business/employees. Regardless though, how he handles his business/employees has nothing to do with me and I'm not invested. I more or less find it interesting how vastly different business owners/bosses handle day-to-day things, and the way in which they handle said things. Debating such topics also helps further develop and grow our own stances/views in regards to operating said businesses and handling said employees.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[SteveO]

Thank you for your input, however I do not have a victim mentality. There is a cause and effect to everything in life, and I'm simply pointing it out based on what I've seen (out of/from others/my past employees), personal experiences, and data. Yes, there will always be lazy and entitled people. Similarly, there will always be overworked and underappreciated people.

I'm well aware of his golf course/contributions based on his past posts I've seen. Having said that, while I personally have not hired/fired more than ~30 people (vs his 50++), I'd be open to betting you that the data points to the same conclusion:

when you treat your employees like actual people, they tend to care more about doing an amazing job and making you money; they tend to be open to staying late/coming early and going above and beyond. When you make it abundantly clear all you care about is profit, then you tend to get employees that ultimately don't care (call it "quiet quitting," "jerking off at their cubicle," etc. it's all the same).

There's a balance between "F*ck you, make me money" and treating people like people. You can be pro-profit while not treating people like empty seats. There's a reason companies have been struggling to find qualified, experienced workers. While not all of is the company's fault, a good portion of it tends go back to "pay" and "how they're treated." So much so, that if you look at employer review websites (Glassdoor, etc.) you'll find the 2 most referenced "cons" are in regards to "pay" and "how they treat you."

I appreciate you pushing me to explain my stance, and I hope we both walk away from this having gained some type of additional insight.

P.S. I'd like to believe @SteveO understands I was simply debating the best course of action for handling employees, not outright disrespecting his stance, and/or the way he handles his business/employees. Regardless though, how he handles his business/employees has nothing to do with me and I'm not invested. I more or less find it interesting how vastly different business owners/bosses handle day-to-day things, and the way in which they handle said things. Debating such topics also helps further develop and grow our own stances/views in regards to operating said businesses and handling said employees.

My employees really like and have respect for me. I have pretty low turnover, pay decently, offer benefits, etc... I work along side of them every day.

I also have about 35 years of management under my belt that includes extensive training.

Not greedy either.

I do appreciate your input and am happy to hear it but we do not agree on this topic.

We are all entitled to our opinions though

 

[Kak]

The irony of the accused “evil profits over all” mentality is that:

1. If profits were really over all, a capitalist entrepreneur would protect and build their long term business prospects and stellar reputation. It’s literally in an entrepreneur’s best interest to have happy employees instead of a wake of people that hate them.

2. Quiet quitting is literally the employee version of an employer not giving a rat's a$$ about anyone or anything, but their immediate “profits” and is massively hypocritical.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

2. Quiet quitting is literally the employee version of an employer not giving a rats a$$ about anyone or anything, but their “profits” and is massively hypocritical.

Yup, this is the employee version of being extremely selfish and greedy - gimme for nothing.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Antifragile]

@Oso

It all starts and then goes the same way, for anti-work and quiet quit to a victim mentality.

The story is something like this...

I went above and beyond my job duties the other day, I did such a great job but no one even noticed. My co-worker Bobby agrees, I did great but did my boss even say "thank you"? Of course not. Worse than that, they just promoted this one guy Kenny who's nowhere near as good as I am or Bobby, but did we get a promotion? NO. I shouldn't care but I am the kind of person who always cares. Promotions like this one ruin the culture at our company. No wonder so many people are unhappy. Bobby agrees with me, we can see it, but the bosses are idiots.

I had this great idea for how to save company millions, I even sent an email to Daniel in operations, he said he'd look into it. Nothing ever happened. I did my part, it's the company's fault for having such bad bosses, clearly owners don't care, why should I? That's it, Bobby and I agree, no more going above and beyond. It's just not worth it, let's only do what we are paid for and that's it. It's called Quiet Quitting.

Pretty sure my value is way higher than what I am getting here, I just asked for a promotion but why should I even be asking? Should't my boss know my value? I even got a call from a recruiter telling me the market for my skills is way more. That's the problem with businesses lately, these greedy owners only care about profits and people are furniture to them. I mean, I got a raise, but it is no where near my real value.

Remember that idea they didn't do anything with? Yeah, that was worth millions. They are lucky to have me here, I don't feel bad at all working on my side hustle while at work, no one can see my screen. But that's not even the point, the point is, I am not being paid enough for what I do here. I am easily worth double. So I work half a day and the rest of the time I work on my own thing. It's fair, Bobby is the same. Kenny is there putting in 12 hour days but no one likes him, he's in everyone's business, very annoying and bad for culture.

These days I work from home, the job I am paid to do I can literally knock out in 1-2 hours max, the rest of the time I just do my own thing. But the problem is my consultants/people, they charge too much. I am in debt already, I can't afford to hire good people yet. I even landed a client, but he wanted me to do all this extra work but that's above and beyond what I thought we agreed to do. He paid me a good deposit, so I don't care, I promised to deliver what I told him and that's it.

Man oh man, I can't wait for one day to be dealing with better clients to afford a better team. If only I paid off my debts. It's the damn government, I am telling you - why can't education be free? We pay so much taxes, they should just wipe out my student debt. I'd be killing it in business if I didn't have this debt and had to hang on to this job. Lucky I am very good at what I do and can get my shit done in 2 hours and focus on my side business...

...

6 years later

...

I can't believe I've been on this forum for 6 years already. Unfortunately, business didn't go as well as I hoped. Problem is I didn't have the money, the people I hired sucked and did a bad job. Also, some clients are real jerks, they just keep asking for more and more, changing their minds. My product is great, I know it, I talked to Bobby and he agrees. I guess luck plays a big role in business success... We just missed the big launch by literally two weeks and our stupid clients freaked out, like it's that big a deal, I mean they didn't pay me to go above and beyond, I delivered what they paid. What's the big deal? People really need to treat programmers better, the world sucks.


Meanwhile...
Steve is playing golf, goes 4x4ing, no debt, high net worth. Forgot this debate even happened.


@Oso, I enjoyed writing this fable. Hope it helps you snap out of your ways and see that it's all the same. Have a solid work ethic, good moral compass and that'll improve your odds of success in business. All this quiet quitting and other bullshit like it is road to nowhere good.

P.S. Most of us who employ people care deeply about our staff. Finding good people is a real challenge and we do go above and beyond to keep them. At the same time, the minute I identify a "quiet quitter" - I can't fire them fast enough. They do have a great tell, they are typically unproductive and nervous around me, have nothing to add to a conversation, prefer to have private space with screens turned away etc.

 

[ZCP]

You give it your all, but all your income is dependent on that one person who decides your fate.

I'm an American citizen, but I've spent years overseas to be with my family then I was fed up with the conditions of the country I was living in
and moved back to the US with only $5,000 and hope. I got a crappy job at a diner. I worked there diligently for 3 years, often pulling 12-hour shifts. At first, I was really bad at it, but after two years, I persevered and became one of the servers who made the most money. One day, a customer complained, and I got fired. All my tenacity and work in those 3 years? Gone. In one single day. Then I enrolled in a coding BootCamp. I've spent months of hell trying to learn to code and change my life while the money in my checking account was dwindling every day as we couldn't work during the BootCamp. 10 months later, I finally landed a job at a tech company. Then COVID happened. People got laid off, I survived, but I wasn't happy.

They completely changed my job role, I offered to volunteer for tasks, but they didn't let me. I still did what I was assigned to; I started out as a web developer, turned into content manager, handling SEO on the side. I graduated with a degree in architecture, worked as a web designer. I'm a jack-of-all-trades but master of none.

Half of the company quit, but I stayed for the paycheck. Big mistake. "Don't come up with your own solutions, do what we tell you to do" "the client isn't paying us enough for the solutions you produce".

Every Sunday night, I went to bed with crippling anxiety, not able to sleep. My entire livelihood being dependent on a single source and today my worst fear came true. I have no income and no health insurance.

I've been following these forums for about 6 years now. I've always wanted to have my own business, but I made excuses, and I was exhausted from the emotional toll my jobs took on me. I've read The Millionaire Fastlane but didn't take action, and I regret it very deeply, but I've learned my lesson. From now on, I'll do whatever it takes to build an independent income, to get away from the corporate drones and the rat race.

I don't aspire to be super-rich. I just want enough independent income to visit my aging parents in my country and not worry about meeting my basic living expenses. I think today sealed the deal for me. It was the push that I needed.

Congratulations! You now have the push needed, the thing to always bring up each time you want to slow down, the evidence that the sheep life is not the way. Now go crush it!!

Reminder that you may need to use a j-o-b to fuel the machine you are building. That is ok. Just build the machine.
Take control of your life and your future. You got this!!