Why Quiet Quitting Is Holding You Back in Life

[NeoDialectic]

I struggle with this sometimes on things that don't seem to matter. Do I really need to get it perfect?

For example, I'm cutting a tile for a floor and the edge is off by 1". However, this tile is in the back of the laundry room and will be covered by the dryer. Do I use a whole new tile and recut it?

I think there is theory and then there is reality. It's why we all acknowledge that Bob #3 may be the result, even if Bob #4 is the goal. I've spent most of my life being Bob #3. I acknowledge that I would be further ahead if I was Bob #4, but we all have our struggles!

In real life we have competing interests and values that demand our time.

In real life , we also all have different goals. If you don't care about a space in the back of the laundry room, then why should you care to fix it? We can do anything, but not everything.

While doing our best is a good lesson, the most important lesson is locus of control. Bob's #1 and #2 blame everyone else for their problems. Bob #3 takes responsibility and isn't doing less work out of spite. He's doing less because of juggling multiple values

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[RicardoGrande]

What are you talking about? Are you an unskilled construction worker? Is this a forum for unskilled construction workers?

I'm not, which is worse because I should be able to afford a home, a family, and all that comes with that as someone working the duties of three job positions as a professional working in America and for a VERY specialized skill and job subset within the American workforce.

You've done an excellent job parroting the talking points from your favorite ideologue

No, I am unfortunately painfully aware of these points looking to the past and discussing with and hearing the tales of baby boomers who were magnanimously blessed to be born into the most prosperous human generation to ever exist and completely fail to pass on the torch to their children and ultimately my generation.
Yes and I am quite miffed that I have to work 10x as hard to have a fraction of what a high-school dullard would have back in the 1960s.

You've thrown a word salad at me and accused me of following others when all I did was stated my own observations of the facts that economic conditions have never been worse- and especially for millennial Americans trying to find our way.
I never attacked you but based on your writing you took my response as ill will...
I know you and fastlane dad are part of "my generation" on paper, but those that were fully matured and could take advantage of the INTEREST-FREE GROWTH EXPLOSION following 2008 is just a little but different different than the beleaguered fighter working 16 hours hoping to make his side-business idea work here in the 2020s.

Hard work and intelligent work is needed, there are no free handouts... But there has never been a time when focus and attention has had to be better spent to see any return on investment and value than now in the 2020s.

I'm tired of being blamed and people grandstanding about my generation; when my generation was handed a nuclear sh!t sandwich and told to pucker up and deal with it as the boomers and others laughed their ways into retirement in their RVs while the best of my generation have to fight off mountains of student and other debt just to have the slightest fraction of what previous generations did.

Still gonna keep up and start and amazing business despite your interjections though bae, fastlane dad already hooked me up with the mind virus <3

 

[NeoDialectic]

---------

It seems like you've got it all figured out. Best of luck!

 

[John Clancy]

To me that just says, "I don't sweat the small stuff and I don't like to be wasteful when the "perfect" version wouldn't really matter."

Does that describe "how you do everything"?

If so, the saying holds true.

This is probably just a couple of throwaway lines for you, but as someone following along with the varying opinions in this thread - this is profound.

It's easy to write off the the idea of "how you do anything is how you do everything" as a binary proposition. However you are, you always are. And for anyone that sees themselves as disciplined in one area while lacking in another, they can immediately dismiss it (as it doesn't seem true from their experience).

But with this broader perspective...

Rather than needing to see patterns of behaviour matching each other across different context, you can pay attention to how they echo instead.

Powerful. Thanks for sharing!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[biophase]

Before any boomers explode in a fury at me- A unskilled construction worker in the 1970s had a REAL shot at having a home and being able to support a wife and a few kids if they were smart with their budgeting. I myself have a family member who likes to fondly wax about how his first blue-collar job in the 70's allowed him to blow almost half of his monthly pay ordering pizzas (too lazy to cook) but was still able to rent and save enough to ultimately buy a house.

My parents bought a house in 1976 for $65k. Their new car was $5500. Both were professional white collar workers that made a combined total of $15k a year.

These ratio are striking similar to today's numbers where they would be making around $150k combined, a car is around $55k and shockingly the house they bought for $65k is worth around $500k.

Housing interest rates were 8.5% at the time.

In 1994 when I graduated, I was paid $32k, a house was about $160k and interest rates were 9%. The most a lender would lend me was $80k. So as a person with a MS engineering degree, I couldn't afford anything but a 1 br condo in a crappy neighborhood.

It's a really rough deal for people in my generation and younger that I don't believe older Americans or those blessed enough to be able to champion their own time and the paths of their own lives realize. I actually mentally struggle with meeting and exceeding my own job duties while also working my @$$ off on my side hustle and not getting terminally depressed like I used to. Even despite my efforts, the clock is ticking and I don't even have half of what my own parents had when they were in the mid-20s.

Your deal is same or similar to what everyone else has gone through.

Honestly I would argue that it's much easier right now than it was for me in 1994. I had a bunch of friends graduate with me with electrical engineering degrees only to work at bestbuy. Times weren't easier back then.

I didn't have no doc loans. I didn't have 3% interest rates. I didn't have the internet. I can only imagine where I'd be today if this was all available to me in 1994.

 

[Isaac Odongo]

I was reading this thread on quiet quitting and felt like the people in favor of it were missing the point. Winning their dynamic with their boss was more important than winning in life. They were missing the forest for the trees.

The point

Meet Bob. Bob is 30 years old, has a wife with two kids, and works for GE on the factory floor.

Bob has realized that he is not happy with his lot in life and has 4 choices.

1. Bob, the disgruntled worker
Bob feels like he is not being appreciated at work. He decides that since he is not being appreciated at work and is not being paid his value, he will start quiet quitting. This means that he will no longer work for a minute after 5 pm or pick up any extra duties which are not mandatory. He will do the bare minimum not to be fired. Every promotion he is passed up on and every raise that he is shortchanged on becomes further proof that Bob chose wisely not to do good work for this unappreciative employer. Such is life in late-stage capitalism. Bob works like this until he is fired. Then he goes on Twitter to complain about how horrible America is. The rest of his career is a repeat of this disaster until he retires.

2. Bob, the quiet quitter with FTE moment

In the meantime, he will work on his SAAS idea, which he thinks will finally prove his worth. He no longer wants to work for selfish bosses.

3. Bob, the reasonable
Bob thinks that even though his employer may be compensating him for the value he provides the company, he could be making a lot more doing something else. He decides that even the best positions in this company limit the appreciation ($$$) he could receive, so he needs to find a way to provide more value. So, Bob starts to build his SAAS business that will enable him to provide immense value to others and unlock the appreciation ($$$) that he believes he deserves.Since Bob needs to continue supporting his family, he decides to remain at his job until he can afford to quit.

Bob continues providing the value at work that he was hired to provide, but he will no longer go the extra mile. That means he will not work after 5 pm or pick up any additional duties that are not mandatory. Not out of spite. It's just that he only has so much time and energy in a day and anything extra spent at work could mean stealing from his family and growing business. He needs to go right home at 5 pm so he could start working on his business. When Bob gets passed up for promotions or receives a smaller raise than others, he acknowledges this is the price he pays for choosing this job is of lower value than other things in his life. Even if Bob gets laid off, he can empathize with the employer.

4. Bob the Ideal

Bob recognizes that his name is on the line every time he shows up. He sees his friends slack off, but he continues working as hard as ever. He isn't working hard because he thinks there is a carrot at the end, but rather because Bob's identity is being a hard worker. Bob is someone you can expect to get things done.

After six months of hard work with his employer and his SAAS business on the side, the business is finally ready for its first customer. During a company meeting, Bob finds out that, as luck would have it, his boss's brother is precisely the type of customer that needs his SAAS solution. So, with a good word from Bob's boss, he just landed his first customer!

---

There is a crucial lesson between every Bob #1 - #4

• Bob #1 is the typical disgruntled worker.
• Bob #2 is the bare minimum expected of you when you join this forum. If you have read the books, you should have realized that you need to take some action that provides value to improve your life. If, after spending time on these forums, you end at this level, you have quiet quit your entrepreneurial journey!
• Bob #3 is a giant leap in mindset as his Locus of Control is not internal. He isn't just a neutral observer as the world is happening to him. Things that happen to him may not always be his fault, but they are always his responsibility. He also recognizes that his actions have consequences and accepts them as costs.
• Bob #4 is the Übermensch. He recognizes everything the previous Bobs do but also recognizes that his actions define him as a person. Other people's actions do not change who Bob is. Their actions determine who they are, and that's it. People respect those that have a code and live by it. Respected hard workers are highly valued in society. Opportunity and luck seem to always find them.

The goal should be #4, but at minimum, you should be at #3. It may be ok if you tried to do #4, but the output looked more like #3. We don't always live up to our ideals.

Everyone knows there are bad bosses out there. *yawn*. The test of your mindset is what your response is to the bad boss. It's not that your actions while at your work necessarily hinder your long-term business prospects directly. It's that the mindset that leads you to those actions will hamper your long-term business prospects directly.

The wisdom here is gold, no wonder more gold has been mined from the minds of men than from the ground. Wallace D Watles handles the foolishness of quiet quitting well. Quiet quitting is a losers game. A zero sum game. Life already has many problems, why should I add complaining, blaming, worrying and doing nothing to them. It has been proven that paying attention to problems and only whimpering like puppies just magnifies the problems. That's what quiet quitters do and get. Suddenly the whole world is a forest of problems. Suddenly everyone is complaining. And that's a losers approach.

There are many great things happening in life. There are many great opportunities out there. Even those problems a quiet quitter sees are actually opportunities, maybe grand opportunities. But a quiet quitter misses them and only gets buried in the illusion of the world full of problems. The world is also full of good things and great beautiful people. Get better as a person. Become more valuable everyday. Keep getting better. Beautiful people will surround you. Stop complaining. Complaining is going to kill you for nothing. Help people. Give more. Of yourself. It works. I do it and it works. I am a teacher. I read MJ's books just weeks ago but I read others a few months ago and it works. You have an anchor. You Don't shake about with the wind like a rootless tree that gets uprooted and thrown over. It dries and decays. You flourish. Get out there and solve those problems you and others complain about. That's better. Find some you can solve. But first stop looking at only black and grey. There is green as well. And that's what's going to make the difference. Give people. They will give you in return.

If you are an employee paid minimum wage and you get better everyday over five years then you have high probability to make a contribution that saves the company or takes it miles up to another level and your contribution will be noticed, it will be noticed. If not within then without. But it will be noticed. A quiet quitter never will ever have this probability. He has destroyed them all. It is a zero sum game for him. He makes no positive impact because he can't. He has negated everything for himself. The positive average is not enough. It doesn't add up. Everybody else gives it. Why should a company quadruple my salary when I do what everybody else is doing? Stop complaining and blaming and justifying, get better, so you can give more. I read a lot so at school I am capable of providing more to the learners and other staff members. I am capable of being trusted with more responsibility as a result. I am trusted. I know the outcome of getting better is better. I'd sit and read something on habits than join a bunch of staffers bickering about pay and the new school the boss's children attend. I get better as a result and am happier and more capable.

Quiet quitting is shit. Quiet quitters shouldn't actually be employed. They sabotage the progress of companies. Somebody on this thread said employees don't mind the business of their employer, in that case why should the employer pay them more. Do it like it is yours, then you'll see the difference.

 

[biophase]

My parents bought a house in 1976 for $65k. Their new car was $5500. Both were professional white collar workers that made a combined total of $15k a year.

These ratio are striking similar to today's numbers where they would be making around $150k combined, a car is around $55k and shockingly the house they bought for $65k is worth around $500k.

Housing interest rates were 8.5% at the time.

In 1994 when I graduated, I was paid $32k, a house was about $160k and interest rates were 9%. The most a lender would lend me was $80k. So as a person with a MS engineering degree, I couldn't afford anything but a 1 br condo in a crappy neighborhood.


Your deal is same or similar to what everyone else has gone through.

Honestly I would argue that it's much easier right now than it was for me in 1994. I had a bunch of friends graduate with me with electrical engineering degrees only to work at bestbuy. Times weren't easier back then.

I didn't have no doc loans. I didn't have 3% interest rates. I didn't have the internet. I can only imagine where I'd be today if this was all available to me in 1994.

Sorry to harp on this even more, but after writing this post I pulled up this chart.

Tell me how much easier it was to buy a house in the 70's through the 90's. Yes, I understand that because of these high interest rates the housing prices were kept lower.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[eliquid]

I struggle with this sometimes on things that don't seem to matter. Do I really need to get it perfect?

For example, I'm cutting a tile for a floor and the edge is off by 1". However, this tile is in the back of the laundry room and will be covered by the dryer. Do I use a whole new tile and recut it?

Are you saying you struggle bc you disagree? And you use this setup as the example?

If so, then it is still right.

It shows you know how to prioritize what's important, and ( somewhat ) discard on what's as important.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I struggle with this sometimes on things that don't seem to matter. Do I really need to get it perfect?

For example, I'm cutting a tile for a floor and the edge is off by 1". However, this tile is in the back of the laundry room and will be covered by the dryer. Do I use a whole new tile and recut it?

No, I lay it as is. Hell, I'm not even sure I'd do behind the washer/dryer.

But I look at this aiming for maximum efficiency.

 

[Panos Daras]

Imo, there's a large chunk of quiet quitting that rests with self-agency.
If you believe that what you do is unimportant, or believe that you are completely replaceable (See all the jobs most prone to quiet quitting: amazon floor worker, barista, fast-food worker, menial office spread-sheet bot) and there COULD be better things they could do, then why expend your energy and time? Don't forget, a lot of millenials and zoomers watched their parents lose sleep, hair, and even get sick stressing themselves out over jobs that never took them above 20$/hr despite 15/20/30 years of work while they themselves feel underpayed and overworked.

On the other hand, and one that hits closer to home for me: With the devaluation of the U.S. Dollar and decoupling of U.S. worker wages from productivity... what's the point? You won't be able to own a home, you won't be able to have a family (It costs about 60,000$ to have a baby now, doesn't it?). Most cars cost as much if not more than the average american worker's salary too and this doesn't even factor in things like skyrocketing insurance rates and inflation impacting groceries.

Before any boomers explode in a fury at me- A unskilled construction worker in the 1970s had a REAL shot at having a home and being able to support a wife and a few kids if they were smart with their budgeting. I myself have a family member who likes to fondly wax about how his first blue-collar job in the 70's allowed him to blow almost half of his monthly pay ordering pizzas (too lazy to cook) but was still able to rent and save enough to ultimately buy a house.
On the other end in the 2020s, I'm a full-time professional worker doing the jobs of three different people at my job, I only JUST received a pay-bump this year after a half-decade of commendable performance at work that makes my pay only SLIGHTLY competitive for my job role in my job market... and I could never dream of owning a house let alone rent a place all to myself (even if it was just a particle board shack next to a graveyard in the bayous of louisiana).

It's a really rough deal for people in my generation and younger that I don't believe older Americans or those blessed enough to be able to champion their own time and the paths of their own lives realize. I actually mentally struggle with meeting and exceeding my own job duties while also working my @$$ off on my side hustle and not getting terminally depressed like I used to. Even despite my efforts, the clock is ticking and I don't even have half of what my own parents had when they were in the mid-20s.

Luckily I've been able to network and run into a lot of people that worked their @$$es off and found fortune and are making 140k+ in their jobs or 10x that in their businesses... but we're talking only a sliver of the millenial demographic cohort... only few get to be that lucky- or earn it.

I agree. In addition, and on a similar note to what you are describing, working more than the allocated time can sometimes show that you have big problem prioritizing and sizing your work.
By clocking in and out on time, you can more easily focus on your work during the hours that you are on the clock. This can help you be more productive and efficient, which can ultimately benefit both you and your employer. At the office now where I work, I see all the time people fooling around and then having to stay overtime.
It has become so common it is scary.

On the other end of the spectrum, I recently spoke with a Taiwanese colleague of mine that was working for Alibaba while living in China. In that company, employees were given huge pay rises if they managed to perform and deliver big projects. But most of the people work 9-9 and weekends.

Even though he stopped working there and now works for a relaxed European company, he was considering doing it again. The reason? He saw it as a challenge, and the monetary reward when you succeeded was big. Chinese people he told me, are very direct. If you make mistake they will point it out, but if you perform well they will also praise you for your hard work.

In the western companies, IMHO, things are quite annoying because often you really don't know if you do well or bad. Everything is muddied in politically correct sugar coated, bs feedback.
In addition, most of the times monetary rewards come from who you know and who you blow.
So there are three main strategies to have a big paycheck increase:
1) Be good in PR and politics - Slowlane
2) and/or change companies every two years. - Slowlane
3) OR start your own godamned business - Fastlane

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[NeoDialectic]

One thing that I think is worth adding to the discussion:
What choices do you have as a worker (besides quiet quitting) when your working conditions are terrible?

Here's an example.

My sister is a dental hygienist.

She is an incredibly faithful, diligent, high-caliber worker. No matter what she sets her mind to, she does it efficiently and tirelessly. She is incredibly strong. (As an example, she has summited all the fourteeners in Colorado and has done multiple marathons, a 50-mile run, and a 100 km run.) Knowing my sister, work ethic or low energy is not the problem.

Well, all of a sudden, the dentist where she works gets a consultant that comes in to "make the practice more profitable."

The consultant wants the hygienists to "do more with each appointment."

So they have been loading the hygienists with a superhuman workload that they simply can't keep up with. My sister can't drink water at work because she doesn't have time to pee all day. She has been dealing with constant anxiety at work (which is totally brand new, not like her). And she has been having debilitating migraines that are getting worse and more frequent because she's leaning over a patient's mouth all day (which puts a terrible strain on your head and neck when done long-term) and it's made worse because she's unable to drink enough water.

I think it's fair to sum all this up by saying that she is operating in terrible working conditions that are putting her physical and mental health at risk. And the working conditions are this bad because the practice is solving the wrong problem. They did not have a problem with lazy hygienists. They actually had good, competent, hard-working hygienists. So it's unfair. It's an unhealthy environment. And I think the employer legitimately deserves to suffer some consequences for this.

So what choices does someone like my sister have?

1. She could raise a ruckus.
Set boundaries. Stand up for yourself. Use your voice. Be assertive. Communicate to the boss that the expectations are unattainable and unacceptable, and they will not be followed. Join hands with the other employees and lay down an ultimatum. "We're not doing this. We'll go this far, but no further." I would argue that this is NOT quiet quitting. This is just saying no and giving pushback when the conditions cross a line. In my mind, if you're at the point where no amount of a raise would offset the awfulness of the work environment, the conditions have crossed a line. And if you're literally unable to keep yourself adequately hydrated because you know you won't be able to use the bathroom when you need to, no amount of money would make sense to pay me extra to put up with that. Well - raise a ruckus. See if the boss will grant some concessions. He probably will. In my sister's case, a dentist without hygienists is going to be hurting. So he's going to have to relent on some of this stuff. Easier said than done? Sure. I know my sister is not going to find this easy. She's so gentle and kind and non-confrontational that it's definitely not something that would come naturally to her. But if that's too scary, then just do #2!

2. She could apply to different jobs.
Changing jobs is a quick and straightforward way to get out of a terrible situation. In my sister's case, the demand for dental hygienists makes it an easy job market. You're not going to be unemployed for long, because there are tons of jobs. If the dentist is pushing people to quit because the conditions are so bad, then he's not going to have a practice. And then so much for the fancy consultant who is promising to make the practice more profitable.

3. She could quiet quit, but what would that accomplish for her?
Let's say raising a ruckus hasn't worked, and let's say that rather than changing jobs, she decides to hunker down and just survive this one for a little longer. What will that accomplish? Nothing good. She's still stuck in an environment that gives her anxiety. Quiet quitting isn't going to bring her bathroom breaks or migraine relief. If doing the "bare minimum" in this case is already herculean level, then she's going to remain stressed and miserable for longer than she needs to. I guarantee you not every dentist operates their practice this way. She's not stuck in an environment where there's no other choice. So what good would quiet quitting even do?

Genuine question:
For people who believe in quiet quitting, why would you choose that rather than #1 or #2?

Fantastic example.

Nothing in my post is meant to defend bad bosses, poor work environments, or deteriorating economic trends. The point is that if you believe you are underappreciated, do something positive about it. "Getting back at" your boss by barely working is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[geronalb]

Or maybe it's precisely the traits that made them successful in business that make them shitty at relationships or health choices. Just like Goggins is a massive success at sports/physical tasks, but struggles with relationships.

But you do make an interesting point.

Life is more nuanced than the self-help industry would like you to believe.

And it's very difficult to capture that nuance in a framework.

All frameworks sound good. On paper.

Talk to your customers. Build something people value. And so on.

It sounds good, but what happens when you talk to your customers and you get 1-word answers? Or they just give you unthoughtful answers because they can't be bothered? What if you've spoken to 200 people and can't get ones who give you meaningful data? These are all questions that you have to find the answers to yourself.

Entrepreneurship isn't the kind of thing where someone gives you step by step instructions, and you can just follow in their path and be successful. You have to tailor it to your own circumstances, personality, and so on.

I must agree. In my research and attempts at attaining customer feedback, seldom were there any to provide substantial or applicable input. Of course, my sample size for said feedback has been small as of until now, but I digress.

Indeed, the most crucial aspect of our ventures remains within our problem-solving capabilities, critical thinking, creativity and initiative. Doing something different tends to get a strong reaction. I suppose that's one way to get feedback immediately.

Beyond that, my own family served as an example of your initial argument. My father has cut several ties with previous best friends and even family members. His social life is restricted to the clients he retains and us and home. Anecdotal and biased evidence, sure, but I doubt he could have run all the local competition out of business otherwise.

Nothing is as simple as we hope. Taking frameworks and modeling them to fit our own inertia is a notable feat. Perhaps therein lies a skill in it of itself.

 

[Antifragile]

From LinkedIn post by https://www.linkedin.com/company/historic-moments/ account.


Imagine you were born in 1900.

When you are 14, World War I starts, and ends on your 18th birthday with 22 million people killed.
Later in the year, a Spanish Flu epidemic hits the planet and runs until you are 20.
Fifty million people die from it in those two years. Yes, 50 million.

When you're 29, the Great Depression begins.
Unemployment hits 25%, global GDP drops 27%.
That runs until you are 33.
The country nearly collapses along with the world economy.

When you turn 39, World War II starts. You aren’t even over the hill yet.
When you're 41, the United States is fully pulled into WWII.
Between your 39th and 45th birthday, 75 million people perish in the war and the Holocaust kills six million.

At 52, the Korean War starts and five million perish.

At 64 the Vietnam War begins, and it doesn’t end for many years.
Four million people die in that conflict.

Approaching your 62nd birthday you have the Cuban Missile Crisis, a tipping point in the Cold War. Life on our planet, as we know it, could well have ended. Great leaders prevented that from happening.

As you turn 75, the Vietnam War finally ends.

Think of everyone on the planet born in 1900.

How do you survive all of that?

A kid in 1985 didn’t think their 85 year old grandparent understood how hard school was. Yet those grandparents (and now great grandparents) survived through everything listed above.

Perspective is an amazing art. Let’s try and keep things in perspective.

Let’s be smart, help each other out, and we will get through all of this.

In the history of the world, there has *never* been a storm that lasted.

This too, shall pass."


Credit to HistoryCoolKids via Joe Rogan.

Photo by Lewis Hine

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Tiago]

I was reading this thread on quiet quitting and felt like the people in favor of it were missing the point. Winning their dynamic with their boss was more important than winning in life. They were missing the forest for the trees.

The point

Meet Bob. Bob is 30 years old, has a wife with two kids, and works for GE on the factory floor.

Bob has realized that he is not happy with his lot in life and has 4 choices.

1. Bob, the disgruntled worker
Bob feels like he is not being appreciated at work. He decides that since he is not being appreciated at work and is not being paid his value, he will start quiet quitting. This means that he will no longer work for a minute after 5 pm or pick up any extra duties which are not mandatory. He will do the bare minimum not to be fired. Every promotion he is passed up on and every raise that he is shortchanged on becomes further proof that Bob chose wisely not to do good work for this unappreciative employer. Such is life in late-stage capitalism. Bob works like this until he is fired. Then he goes on Twitter to complain about how horrible America is. The rest of his career is a repeat of this disaster until he retires.

2. Bob, the quiet quitter with FTE moment

In the meantime, he will work on his SAAS idea, which he thinks will finally prove his worth. He no longer wants to work for selfish bosses.

3. Bob, the reasonable
Bob thinks that even though his employer may be compensating him for the value he provides the company, he could be making a lot more doing something else. He decides that even the best positions in this company limit the appreciation ($$$) he could receive, so he needs to find a way to provide more value. So, Bob starts to build his SAAS business that will enable him to provide immense value to others and unlock the appreciation ($$$) that he believes he deserves.Since Bob needs to continue supporting his family, he decides to remain at his job until he can afford to quit.

Bob continues providing the value at work that he was hired to provide, but he will no longer go the extra mile. That means he will not work after 5 pm or pick up any additional duties that are not mandatory. Not out of spite. It's just that he only has so much time and energy in a day and anything extra spent at work could mean stealing from his family and growing business. He needs to go right home at 5 pm so he could start working on his business. When Bob gets passed up for promotions or receives a smaller raise than others, he acknowledges this is the price he pays for choosing this job is of lower value than other things in his life. Even if Bob gets laid off, he can empathize with the employer.

4. Bob the Ideal

Bob recognizes that his name is on the line every time he shows up. He sees his friends slack off, but he continues working as hard as ever. He isn't working hard because he thinks there is a carrot at the end, but rather because Bob's identity is being a hard worker. Bob is someone you can expect to get things done.

After six months of hard work with his employer and his SAAS business on the side, the business is finally ready for its first customer. During a company meeting, Bob finds out that, as luck would have it, his boss's brother is precisely the type of customer that needs his SAAS solution. So, with a good word from Bob's boss, he just landed his first customer!

---

There is a crucial lesson between every Bob #1 - #4

• Bob #1 is the typical disgruntled worker.
• Bob #2 is the bare minimum expected of you when you join this forum. If you have read the books, you should have realized that you need to take some action that provides value to improve your life. If, after spending time on these forums, you end at this level, you have quiet quit your entrepreneurial journey!
• Bob #3 is a giant leap in mindset as his Locus of Control is not internal. He isn't just a neutral observer as the world is happening to him. Things that happen to him may not always be his fault, but they are always his responsibility. He also recognizes that his actions have consequences and accepts them as costs.
• Bob #4 is the Übermensch. He recognizes everything the previous Bobs do but also recognizes that his actions define him as a person. Other people's actions do not change who Bob is. Their actions determine who they are, and that's it. People respect those that have a code and live by it. Respected hard workers are highly valued in society. Opportunity and luck seem to always find them.

The goal should be #4, but at minimum, you should be at #3. It may be ok if you tried to do #4, but the output looked more like #3. We don't always live up to our ideals.

Everyone knows there are bad bosses out there. *yawn*. The test of your mindset is what your response is to the bad boss. It's not that your actions while at your work necessarily hinder your long-term business prospects directly. It's that the mindset that leads you to those actions will hamper your long-term business prospects directly.

Man I SO appreciate you writing this. I'm currently in #3, but my mentor kicked my a$$ to become #4. This is exactly what I needed to read.

 

[NeoDialectic]

Haha - I don’t disagree MJ. I do think thoughts and beliefs influence actions. But - I think that the faster way to change thoughts and beliefs is by changing how you act. Action is the most powerful lever you can pull to change your self-image.

New actions = new thoughts, new beliefs. It’s why even in therapy most conditions such as depression, anxiety and even OCD aren’t overcome until the patient starts acting differently. That’s when the thoughts and feelings start shifting the fastest, and the same thoughts and emotions that used to trouble the patient lose their grip.

It’s really the realisation that one CAN, in fact, act differently that leads to shifts happening. This realization cannot be obtained fully by theorizing - only by actually acting differently.

So in this case Bob #1’s issue is that he’s taking no action. And the lack of action makes him see himself as a victim - because the truth is that in his condition and state of not being proactive at all, he IS a victim. He perceives clearly that he will be stuck in his job so long as he doesn’t change his actions.

So his belief that he is a victim - it’s 100% true for him. He would be deluded to see himself any differently. The way he can start shifting that in the fastest way possible is by realizing he’s not happy with what he’s getting and taking small steps towards moving in a different direction. As he starts seeing progress and he sees he CAN actually influence his life due to the actions he’s taking, his beliefs will shift.

Of course he could THINK that he doesn’t have to be a victim and try to chip away at that belief that way… but it won’t really work that much. Because feelings, which are the emotional part of beliefs, don’t shift that easily just by thinking differently. I can THINK I’m not a victim, but that doesn’t mean I stop feeling like a victim and perceiving myself as being a victim. That perception and the attendant emotion that go along with the belief don’t go away when thoughts change. Those positive thoughts can be the beginning of a journey, but it’s just a tiny spark - unless followed by action, which is the key component in change, nothing happens.

Bob #2 on the other hand starts taking action. He sees himself making progress on his SAAS. He understands that his SAAS may become a lot more valuable than his job. His beliefs start to shift based on the actions he’s taking.

The way I see the progression from Bob#1 to Bob#4 is how someone’s mindset changes based on the actions they take. In #1 actions aren’t aligned with their goal & circumstances. In #4 they are completely aligned.

Take any member of TFL who isn’t successful yet - and let’s define that as still working a job years after reading TMF . I’m quite sure we have such people around. Why aren’t they acting differently? They KNOW they could start a business. They KNOW that it’s possible. They’ve visualized themselves doing it. Recited mantras. Practice the law of attraction… but they still can’t let go of the job. They still can’t focus on creating real value. So why are they stuck?

And then take someone like me - I started out I’d say with quite crappy beliefs. But I took action, that was aligned with my vision. I never held a job in my life. I was scared, I thought I’d fail, I was angry at the world. Did any of that stop me? No - why not? Just because I took action. And by taking action my beliefs started to change. I no longer saw myself as incapable old me, because hey, this month I made $10K. I no longer felt as scared because hey, now I’m managing 18 people! And so on. You cannot lie to yourself - your mind KNOWS who you are based on the actions you took. That’s how your beliefs are formed. It’s a very inefficient way to shit beliefs by thinking differently, it’s very hard to trick your mind.

I spoke with an old friend awhile ago (Gordon Alexander from sowpub - he’s known in a few biz op & copywriting circles) and he mentioned that most people need to change their beliefs to be successful… but then there’s the odd one who cannot change his beliefs, but does the thing anyway. I believe that the underlying mechanism in both cases is the DOING - that is what shifts things inside the most. Just that in the case of the majority, they are led to believe that their thoughts change first, then their actions, and they fail to observe that it’s actually acting differently that’s slowly changing their beliefs.

Good insight.

This is why I separate my beliefs into three categories.

1. Beliefs that I logically think are true. (Said another way: Beliefs that my thinking brain has concluded are probably true)
2. Beliefs that I feel are right. These are my emotional beliefs that I would probably verbalize based on feelings or intuition.
3. Implied Beliefs that are derived from my actions. I consider Action beliefs to be the true picture of my beliefs and values. When rubber hits the road, my actions imply that I actually believe or value X, Y , Z.

Ideally those categories should all be the same, but in real life they aren't and I don't necessarily think it's always best to try to force them together.

As long as you have some kind of motivation or reason to change a belief, the easiest belief to change is the logical one. I think this is where most people are when TMF opens their eyes to a different world. In my opinion it is both easy and simple to change your logical beliefs if you "want" that outcome. But it also does the least to spur action. The next hardest belief to change is the action belief because you actually have to do something that puts you out of your comfort zone and that's just hard. So it's hard, but it's simple (just start doing). In the short term it is the most important one as it is the connection to real world outcomes.

The hardest are emotional beliefs because it is both hard and not simple. Not only does it take a long time of trying (hard), but I don't think there is any guaranteed formula to directly do so (not simple). While the emotional beliefs may not matter in the short term, I think they are paramount in the long term. Otherwise continuing to take action starts to become overwhelmingly hard and will surpass anyones discipline eventually.

As you mentioned, I do think that the best way to start the process of changing emotional beliefs is by doing. Acting out the beliefs. I won't provide the process or examples as your post does so perfectly.

The only disagreement I would have is your claim that action has to come before belief change. It may simply be a difference in semantics since you weren't separating beliefs into many categories like I am and you may agree with me. In my head though, you must to have buy-in from your logical beliefs to even spur any action in the first place. So some kind of belief change does happen before action. So the purpose of starting my thread is to convince an otherwise skeptical reader that it is in fact beneficial for them to be bob #4 and they didn't just figure out the cheat code to life by Quiet Quitting. I am speaking to their thinking brain. The work required past that is their cross to bear......

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Good insight.

This is why I separate my beliefs into three categories.

1. Beliefs that I logically think are true. (Said another way: Beliefs that my thinking brain has concluded are probably true)
2. Beliefs that I feel are right. These are my emotional beliefs that I would probably verbalize based on feelings or intuition.
3. Implied Beliefs that are derived from my actions. I consider Action beliefs to be the true picture of my beliefs and values. When rubber hits the road, my actions imply that I actually believe or value X, Y , Z.

Ideally those categories should all be the same, but in real life they aren't and I don't necessarily think it's always best to try to force them together.

As long as you have some kind of motivation or reason to change a belief, the easiest belief to change is the logical one. I think this is where most people are when TMF opens their eyes to a different world. In my opinion it is both easy and simple to change your logical beliefs if you "want" that outcome. But it also does the least to spur action. The next hardest belief to change is the action belief because you actually have to do something that puts you out of your comfort zone and that's just hard. So it's hard, but it's simple (just start doing). In the short term it is the most important one as it is the connection to real world outcomes.

The hardest are emotional beliefs because it is both hard and not simple. Not only does it take a long time of trying (hard), but I don't think there is any guaranteed formula to directly do so (not simple). While the emotional beliefs may not matter in the short term, I think they are paramount in the long term. Otherwise continuing to take action starts to become overwhelmingly hard and will surpass anyones discipline eventually.

As you mentioned, I do think that the best way to start the process of changing emotional beliefs is by doing. Acting out the beliefs. I won't provide the process or examples as your post does so perfectly.

The only disagreement I would have is your claim that action has to come before belief change. It may simply be a difference in semantics since you weren't separating beliefs into many categories like I am and you may agree with me. In my head though, you must to have buy-in from your logical beliefs to even spur any action in the first place. So some kind of belief change does happen before action. So the purpose of starting my thread is to convince an otherwise skeptical reader that it is in fact beneficial for them to be bob #4 and they didn't just figure out the cheat code to life by Quiet Quitting. I am speaking to their thinking brain. The work required past that is their cross to bear......

How does this post have no likes, I think it deserves GOLD on its own. I am pretty much in agreement with this.

I think it’s ideal if your emotional beliefs as you call them are aligned with your action beliefs. Unfortunately from my experience that’s not something that you can count on OR easily control or change.

Your emotions are the result of a long conditioning process, it’s quite difficult to change them.

Take an example of say cold calling. Most people find that terrifying. It will take them months, maybe even years of practice, and that fear may never go away completely, although in most cases it will drastically reduce. Imo the ability to act in spite of your emotions is an extremely important and very often not talked about secret to success!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Tiago]

How does this post have no likes, I think it deserves GOLD on its own. I am pretty much in agreement with this.

I think it’s ideal if your emotional beliefs as you call them are aligned with your action beliefs. Unfortunately from my experience that’s not something that you can count on OR easily control or change.

Your emotions are the result of a long conditioning process, it’s quite difficult to change them.

Take an example of say cold calling. Most people find that terrifying. It will take them months, maybe even years of practice, and that fear may never go away completely, although in most cases it will drastically reduce. Imo the ability to act in spite of your emotions is an extremely important and very often not talked about secret to success!

100% correct. I was petrified about cold calling.

For the first 10 days, I cried almost every day. Did 19 dials one day, the next one 22 dials, the other one 25 dials. Always wanted to improve by 10%.

Now I can knock out 200 dials a day. It still makes me a little scared, but not as much as it did before.

Action changed my beliefs. I said "No way in hell I can sell a 5k program to someone on the phone". Alas, I can.

 

[Kevin88660]

Imo, there's a large chunk of quiet quitting that rests with self-agency.
If you believe that what you do is unimportant, or believe that you are completely replaceable (See all the jobs most prone to quiet quitting: amazon floor worker, barista, fast-food worker, menial office spread-sheet bot) and there COULD be better things they could do, then why expend your energy and time? Don't forget, a lot of millenials and zoomers watched their parents lose sleep, hair, and even get sick stressing themselves out over jobs that never took them above 20$/hr despite 15/20/30 years of work while they themselves feel underpayed and overworked.

On the other hand, and one that hits closer to home for me: With the devaluation of the U.S. Dollar and decoupling of U.S. worker wages from productivity... what's the point? You won't be able to own a home, you won't be able to have a family (It costs about 60,000$ to have a baby now, doesn't it?). Most cars cost as much if not more than the average american worker's salary too and this doesn't even factor in things like skyrocketing insurance rates and inflation impacting groceries.

Before any boomers explode in a fury at me- A unskilled construction worker in the 1970s had a REAL shot at having a home and being able to support a wife and a few kids if they were smart with their budgeting. I myself have a family member who likes to fondly wax about how his first blue-collar job in the 70's allowed him to blow almost half of his monthly pay ordering pizzas (too lazy to cook) but was still able to rent and save enough to ultimately buy a house.
On the other end in the 2020s, I'm a full-time professional worker doing the jobs of three different people at my job, I only JUST received a pay-bump this year after a half-decade of commendable performance at work that makes my pay only SLIGHTLY competitive for my job role in my job market... and I could never dream of owning a house let alone rent a place all to myself (even if it was just a particle board shack next to a graveyard in the bayous of louisiana).

It's a really rough deal for people in my generation and younger that I don't believe older Americans or those blessed enough to be able to champion their own time and the paths of their own lives realize. I actually mentally struggle with meeting and exceeding my own job duties while also working my @$$ off on my side hustle and not getting terminally depressed like I used to. Even despite my efforts, the clock is ticking and I don't even have half of what my own parents had when they were in the mid-20s.

Luckily I've been able to network and run into a lot of people that worked their @$$es off and found fortune and are making 140k+ in their jobs or 10x that in their businesses... but we're talking only a sliver of the millenial demographic cohort... only few get to be that lucky- or earn it.

I think the whole quiet quitting apply to people who could afford to quiet quit.

Floor worker, spread sheet bot or fast food worker do have the heavy workload to deal with. You cannot quiet quit without quitting literally. Not getting sacked requires you to finish the heavy load within time.

I think it refers to more like office based, project themed jobs where it is possible to do bare minimum and not get sacked and other hardworking dudes putting in more work are expecting a promotion.

In any setting there are people who “just do the minimum” and the other who aspire to do more.

Quite quieting happens when the people who aspired to do more finally gave up because they didn’t see a difference.

It is more like the incentives structure being broken. Either the companies need to reward those who are doing more or they need to fire the existing quite quitter. If you run your company like a state owned socialist enterprise that no one gets extra reward and no one gets fired don’t be surprised with what you get.

 

[NeoDialectic]

How does this post have no likes, I think it deserves GOLD on its own. I am pretty much in agreement with this.

I think it’s ideal if your emotional beliefs as you call them are aligned with your action beliefs. Unfortunately from my experience that’s not something that you can count on OR easily control or change.

Thanks. I think most people don't make it past page 1 of a thread haha

Your emotions are the result of a long conditioning process, it’s quite difficult to change them.


Take an example of say cold calling. Most people find that terrifying. It will take them months, maybe even years of practice, and that fear may never go away completely, although in most cases it will drastically reduce.

I wonder if the things that are extremely difficult to change are rooted in something deeper. It is probably no coincidence that most people hate cold calling and it's hard to get comfortable with.

Imo the ability to act in spite of your emotions is an extremely important and very often not talked about secret to success!

Good point. Agreed. It's such a powerful principle that it is universal to basically all endeavors. Another well known (in the field) example is in the workout scene. Your success in achieving the body you want is based on you coming in to the gym on the days you really don't want to.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.