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Lex DeVille's: Guru Cults Exposed: The Tactics "Experts" Use To Pull You In & Suck You Dry

Smith11B

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Just reading your post made me uncomfortable. Man oh man.

Great insights


The stuff is scary powerful man. If you cannot deliver you can really ruin someones life. But there's a deeper part of it even.

The true secret to high ticket is in being able to articulate the problem better than anyone else and direct it onto one of the LF8. This is what the gurus study along with the cult stuff and is the real key. This is also the reason why niches work, but most people don't understand it.

The LF8 are 8 desires you are born with and really can't shake. I won't go into detail on them here but you'll find them in the book Ca$hvertising.

Here's why it's so powerful.

Let's say you are a gym coach or online personal trainer or whatever.

Most people understand that you have to talk about problems and pain to market to someone well. So most pin point pains like this:

"You don't like how you look"
"You can't look in the mirror"
"Not being able to go to the beach sucks"
"Picking things up and losing your breath sucks"
"Not being able to play sports with your friends sucks"
"You can get diabetes."
"You're at risk for heart attack"

These are legit pains right? They hurt a lot. So they craft their message around them.

Here's how a high level gurus selling high ticket personal training would do it.

"You don't understand. That feeling that you feel? That lack of confidence in getting naked? That lack of pride in yourself when its time to hit the beach? Its so pervasive and has you so ashamed that you shy away from showing up in a sexual way with your wife. Instead you turn to porn and it's leaving a rift in your marriage. This has lead to a lack of connection and its probably to the point where shes thought more than once about more attractive men, or worse, ending the marriage entirely. Completely destroying your family. Your child's life altered. Your own life altered and headed down a dark path. All because you couldn't get your body together."

Now.. notice how the problem shifted from "I want to get in shape" to "I want to keep my family intact and give my wife the love she deserves." What is the latter worth? It's priceless. And so you take out your wallet.

If you can get this right, persuasion becomes easy. The close after that is just a precaution.

This is the power of a good copywriter like @SinisterLex (or myself if I can toot my own horn.)

It's also why Gurus are so dangerous, and why they make boatloads of cash.
 
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LeoistheSun

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GREAT NOW I AM SUPER PARANOID!!!:rofl:

@SinisterLex Thanks for the awesome thread! I've heard Ca$hvertising mentioned a few times now, the 48 laws of power and presuasion. Any other good resources?

It seems like the best way to spot these schemes is to be fluent in this skill yourself.
 

GMSI7D

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GREAT NOW I AM SUPER PARANOID!!!:rofl:

@SinisterLex

1) Any other good resources?

2) It seems like the best way to spot these schemes is to be fluent in this skill yourself.



1) the others ressources are anything that raises you above the crowd

if you have more skills, more knowledge, more will, more whatever then you can become a guru


to teach something in this guru business, you don't have to own a PHD

you just have to know a little more than your customers



let's be precise again with a case study :

David Angelo is well known for his dating products


david angelo.jpg


but he is not a seducer at all !

his real name is Eben Pagan, a famous businessman, not a seducer !!


do you think David Angelo / Eben Pagan is really a seducer ?


david.jpg




NO !!

he is just a smart businessman who just figured out how to make money by reading books and doing an info product business with this knowledge !!!


here is the real " seducer " we are talking about :

eben.jpg

his real skill is making money, not seducing girls

---> so, he is a false dating guru but a real business man


by the way his get altitude symbol is an esoteric symbol which really means that awareness ( enlightened people) will use people's energy to get what it wants

EbenPagan_GetAltitude.png



2)
yes


you can't be protected from manipulative intents unless you 've got knowledge in this area


let's think about this saying:

" the truth shall set you free "



truth.jpg




.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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Argue

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I've seen some of his facebook ads, they're actually quite brilliant. You would do well to mimic what he does.
I agree, no doubt. I was tongue in cheek.
He does everything Lex talked about.

However, I'm taking notes. His website is good. His copy is excellent.
His video does a good job on getting attention. He's tier 1.

Definitely worth taking notes and mimicking him.
 
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I avoid Facebook like a pimple on prom night.

Screenshots please! ;)

I've since quit using the platform, save for chatting with a few people. It's pure cancer.

I can't locate the ad on YT either :(
 

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Step by Step Guide on How to
Make Big Bucks Online Today

Even if you don't have any knowledge or real experience
Have you tried to build an online business that after all your hard work failed miserably? Stop wasting YOUR time. This step by step guide has been engineered to take you by the hand from broke to freedom.

It requires little effort and has proven results. It works as magic, believe it or not.

Start now with step one:

Step 1: setup

You will need some tools to get started, so:

- Setup a leadpages.net account
- Setup a teachable.com account
- Setup a gotomeeting.com/webinar account, or any other webinar platform
- Download Camtasia or any other screencast program
- (Optional) Setup a paypal or stripe account

Step 2: create your high-quality, high-ticket content

Don't worry, this is going to be easy. You don't need any knowledge or experience.

The only skill you need is to know how to copy and paste content, basic computer use, and basic English understanding.

If you are reading this, you already have all the skills you'll need.

Let's go:

- Copy all the content from this thread into a document (google docs, MS Word, ... whatever)
- Remove every reference to a guru and replace it with something about your client's success and the quality content you are providing. I.e. you have to turn a statement like "A high-ticket guru CTA almost always leads to one of three places" in something like "Your high-ticket CTA must lead to one of this three places".
- (Optional) Extra mile: you can rewrite all the content using your own words for maximum impact. But if it seems like too much work, you can avoid it.

Step 3: recording your content for maximum impact

This step requires a little bit of work, but it's easy and actually you can do it very quickly.

- The document from Step 2 is your script. Now, go and create some powerpoint presentations with titles and bullet points that summarize that script. One presentation for each topic (each SinisterLex post here).
- Record some videos with your preferred screencast program. Just record your screen with the powerpoint presentation in it, as you are reading your script.
- Upload your videos to your teachable account.

Step 4: promoting your content

Congratulations! If you have reach this point, you already have a great product to sell. A product that a lot of people desperate for making money is going to buy. You only have to take one more step to earn your freedom.

Here you have it. You are going to use all the tactics you have copied in your document to promote your own course.

But first, you will need to do some stuff to increase your credibility and authority:
- Get dressed in your best suit. If you don't have a suit, don't worry. You can dress shorts, flip-flops and sunglasses instead.
- Go to the richest part of your city accompanied by your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend/cat/dog/ferret/friend (whoever you have at hand)
- Locate some luxury cars parked and take several pictures of you and your companion leaning on the car, as if it were yours.

Now, let's go for the online promotion:
- First, create a pre-recorded webinar following the steps layout in the post about webinars. Use the pictures you've taken before for this webinar.
- Then, create a landing page with leadpages using the tactics explained in the post about landing pages. Use here more of the pictures you've taken before. This landing page will fill your webinars attendance.
- Don't forget to create a sales script to follow later, with the content in the post about the call.

Now is when money starts rolling in:
- Start a facebook ads campaign with the copywriting tactics exposed in the post about facebook ads. Those ads will link with your landing page.
- Wait for the first calls to happen. Note that using a call is optional, but highly recommended. You can have all the process working on automatic, linking your pre-recorded webinar with your teachable sign-up page. But high-tickets usually happen in calls.
- Collect the money with paypal, stripe, bank transfer... and then,
- give your new client access to your teachable high-quality, high-ticket content.

That's it.

This 4 easy steps cover all you need to start making money online TODAY and earn the freedom that you deserve.

The only thing you DON'T need is ethics.

So, what's stopping you?

EDIT: I hope that nobody takes this as a serious attempt to teach something and actually do it :D
 
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ENTER THE CULT - THE NEARLY UNSTOPPABLE POWER OF WEBINARS

Tier 1 gurus teach most of their techniques to students. They'll show you how to use Authority and Future Pacing and Framing. But there's one thing they won't tell you. No Tier 1 guru ever mentions how they studied cult indoctrination. They also don't mention how those techniques are applied in their webinars (as well as every webinar their students create).

Lucky for you, I'm the guy who trained their students how to structure, write, and build their webinars for maximum impact. And fair warning...I've studied cult indoctrination.

So today's lesson is on webinars. I'll show you both sides of the technique patterns. From influence and persuasion, to NLP, and finally cult indoctrination. We may have to break this one into multiple parts.

5-Shifts.png


WEBINARS HAPPEN IN PHASES

Any Guru who's been trained doesn't just make a webinar. There's a structure and format they follow. It's been tried and tested over many years even before the internet. Digital marketing has simply optimized it. A couple things you need to know:

1) Most webinars are NOT designed to give you answers (they create questions).
2) Most webinars are NOT meant to give value (they're meant to sell to you).
3) Most webinars are structured to shift you from curious onlooker to card ready buyer.

Breaking down a full webinar slide by slide would take forever. So we'll look at the sections you'll find in most webinars instead. This will give you a high-level overview that you can carry forward if ever you find yourself in a webinar funnel. The phases of a webinar are:

Phase 0 - Pre Webinar
Phase 1 - Introduction, Targeting, & Promises
Phase 2 - Reframing, Future Pacing, & Authority
Phase 3 - The Magical Life-Altering Shifts
Phase 4 - Recap, The Choice, Close



PHASE 0 - PRE WEBINAR

Pre-webinar happens when you first enter the room. You open the screen and you either get a live person or not. Either way, the speaker begins establishing authority instantly before the webinar starts. They do this by saying, "Hi John, Hi Mark, Hi Cindy...we'll get started in a moment."

Usually you won't have access to the other participants. You might not have any way to know if this webinar is pre-recorded or live. But the speaker mentions people by name so everyone watching knows (believes) there are other people watching even if no one else is there (including the speaker lol!).

This technique helps put you at ease. You feel like you're not the only fool in the room. Plus, if others are watching, this person must be someone others thought was worth listening to. So maybe it's worth a few more minutes of your time, because who knows...this might be the webinar that changes everything for you.

This tactic is especially useful for unknown gurus, but even well-knowns use it.

One other thing that happens in this phase is the guru says something like:

"To get the most out of this webinar, be sure to silence your phone and close out other screens. Make sure you have time to watch in a quiet place away from other distractions. Give me your undivided attention so you can come away with profound insights."

Yes, they want your attention, but there's more to it than that. By closing out other distractions, you don't just give your attention. You give your focused attention to the ideas they want you to consume (mainly that following their words and their system will pave the way to riches). This is another Cialdini approved presuasion method.



PHASE 1 - TARGETING & PROMISES

When the webinar begins, the speaker either gives a very brief introduction, or skips it for now. Then they go straight into targeting so they can grab their ideal client's attention. This happens in one to two slides usually titled "Who This Is For."


Who This Is For:

This is for anyone who wants to make millions selling books about topics they aren't qualified to sell. Coaches, consultants, NLP practitioners, middle age dude with the beer gut watching from your couch in your underwear. If you use insights you don't have to create unique breakthroughs for other people, then this is for you...


If you fit the description, then they have your attention, even if only for a moment. After that the webinar continues straight into promises. First a series of slides with small promises and then a big promise at the end.


My Promise To You:

Today I'll show you how to turn your ability to use vague language and minimal research to build a 6-figure business selling kindle books even if that seems impossible right now. I'll show you how to become a best-selling author practically overnight without spending years learning the trade. I'll also show you how to put yourself on a path to your first $1,000 $2,000 or $10,000 months as quickly as possible.

My promise to you is to show you a step-by-step strategy to 6 figures per month.

The promises are always something they know their ideal target wants. They know this because they've researched it (as you've already seen). They've spent time figuring out exactly what this person wants to hear and conveniently, that's exactly what they say. :D

At this point your interest is peaked, but you're still skeptical and cautious. You know at some point they'll probably try to sell you something. Gurus know you know this. Which is why the next slide is this...


There Is Nothing For Sell
But if you stay to the end, you will get a free gift.

This isn't a lie. There's nothing for sell...on this webinar. But by the end they will pitch for your cash. This slide is to help you drop your guard for now. It also uses future pacing to incentivize you to stay to the end.

Before they can sell to you, they have to get you to be open to the idea of being sold to. That starts by changing your beliefs about what this webinar is. Once you believe there's nothing for sale you have no reason not to believe this webinar might actually offer real value.



PHASE 2 - REFRAME, FUTURE PACING, SUMMARY, AUTHORITY

Knowing there's nothing for sale, and there's a gift at the end, you become more interested. A key moment opens up, and now the webinar hits you in the gut with pain points. So the next couple of slides cover your pains as you describe them.


Does This Sound Like You?

Do you write long direct-response stories on popular forums about your expertise, but still people won't buy? Do you post direct response paid ads, and sometimes people buy, but you don't make millions? Do you have some months where cash pours in, but you can't maintain it? Are you struggling to bring in a consistent flow of clients no matter how hard you try?

DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE 100% ON THE RIGHT PATH BUT NOBODY CARES?

So they've brought you face to face with your pain. They've said all the things you say to yourself when you're laying in bed at night. They replace your "whys?" with their "do you?"

And then they blow your mind...


THE REAL PROBLEM?
You haven't made the "shifts" yet...
OH SNAP!

This simple reframe is a real eye-opener. It says everything you thought was the problem, isn't the real problem. Since you were wrong about the problem, it suddenly makes sense why your solutions didn't work. But now you have a question...what are the shifts??? dun dun dun...

Right after that slide you'll move into future pacing slides. They won't tell you what the shifts are just yet. Instead, they tell you what you'll get once you make those shifts. This allows you to imagine that future and how much better it will be.

There's another NLP technique used here too. It's called a presupposition. Presuppositions are assumptions about events that will occur. In this case it is presupposed that you will be making these shifts at some point. Sales gurus would call it assuming the sale.


ONCE YOU MAKE IT...

You'll be able to package your overnight insights into 2,000 word ebooks that break the payment system from so many buyers. You'll have as many clients as you want every single month on autopilot without you doing anything. You'll hit 6 or 7 or 12-figures whenever you're ready for it. Your bank account will skyrocket and you'll be able to afford a biosphere home on the moon. AND you'll do all of this while remembering the beautiful joy of what it means to be a true entrepreneur.

By now the webinar is about a 3rd of the way complete. At this point you might start to wonder if you're getting anywhere. Gurus know this.

So they move into the final part of Phase 2, authority. This is where they finally introduce themselves. They throw whatever credibility markers at you that they've got. The purpose is to prove that they are someone worth listening to, and that they can therefore help you out.


Who I Am:

I'm an NLP Master Practitioner with years of study. I've had 100,000 app downloads. I've played poker with @MJ DeMarco. I've talked to 100's of women all over the world. I've completely eliminated phobias in at least 5 people who wouldn't publicly disagree.


Credibility establishes authority. People listen to authorities. Credibility markers are things like big numbers, name dropping, places they've worked or been featured (Forbes, Entrepreneur) important titles, testimonials, downloads, likes, shares, etc.......

Tier 1 and Tier 2 gurus are more likely to use actually sales numbers to establish authority. Tier 3 and 4 use more vague concepts like app downloads, or number of likes and shares, so they don't have to straight up lie about sales achievements.

One other thing I've seen Tier 1 and 2 gurus add recently is some pictures of their family. They'll have a slide covering some awesome vacation they took. This helps you feel like they're a real person just like you who's just trying to give their family a good life. It also implies what the viewer will have once they make the shifts.


PHASE 3 - THE MAGICAL LIFE-ALTERING SHIFTS

And so...we finally reach the shifts.

The 5 (or 7 or 10 or 3) Shifts (or changes, or steps, or leaps) consume a major portion of the rest of the webinar. This is the supposed "meat and potatoes" you signed up for. Really this is just the part where they change how you think about the purchase you'll later make.

Each shift, like every other part of the webinar, follows a specific structure and contains specific information in a series of slides. With many of my past clients we used the following tactics in these slides:

1) Shock
2) Support
3) Stakes
4) Stuff
5) Story
6) Summary

Shock -
They say something shocking or unexpected to get attention.
Support - They back up what they say with some kind of evidence.
Stakes - They let you know what's at stake if you do this or if you don't do this.
Stuff - This is the tiny little part of the webinar where they might teach you something of value.
Story - They reinforce what they just taught you with a story or testimonial.
Summary - They summarize the whole thing.

The structure of the 5 shifts is done in a way that lowers your guard, and prepares you to take the correct actions later on in the funnel. For that reason, you'll find the shifts usually go something like this:

SHIFT 1 - ALWAYS TRY TO HELP PEOPLE
This isn't about you helping people. It's about you believing they help people.

SHIFT 2 - CHARGE A PREMIUM
This isn't about you charging a premium. It's about you beginning to understand and accept that they charge a premium.

SHIFT 3 - USE THE SECRET TOOL
The secret tool...is webinars, and you have to agree that it works because you're still watching it!

SHIFT 4 - LEVERAGE YOUR TIME
This shift describes separating your time from your pay. But it's really about them subtly overcoming your objection to spending X amount for something that doesn't take that much time for them to deliver.

SHIFT 5 - INVEST IN MENTORING
The final shift is ALWAYS to invest in mentoring. Mentoring gives you accountability and insights and blah blah blah. If you really want to hit 12-figures, you'll need a mentor.

As you can see, these shifts are NOT designed to HELP you. They're designed to SELL you. More specifically, they prep you to be open and accepting of the upcoming sales pitch.



PHASE 4 - RECAP, A CHOICE, THE CLOSE

When you get past the 5 shifts, you're feeling good. You feel confident. You feel excited. You've just discovered some crazy insights (or so you believe). Good luck implementing them without a mentor though...

You feel a sort of high at this point. Part has to do with the webinar information. Another part has to do with the speaker him or herself. Tier 1 & 2 gurus know how to change the speed, pitch, and tone of their voice to hype you up (even though they'll say they don't do that anymore because it wasn't an ethical way to sell).

FYI...they still do it.

So now there's a couple of slides that recap the entire 5 shifts to remind you of everything you just learned, and also to explain how the guru delivered what they promised (so you don't feel cheated). Then you get a slide that says you have a choice.


Now You Have A Choice:

You can keep reverse engineering funnel after funnel, going nowhere in life, making sh*t pay, and having no clients and no food on the table OR....

AND FINALLY...

The truth comes out. Once they remind you of how shitty life is right now, they drop this bomb on you...


Here's How I Can Help:

My team and I have set aside some time to talk with you about how you can apply these ideas in your business today! And the best part? It's totally FREE!

After that you're almost done. You've only got a couple more slides. The final slides get more specific with targeting. You'll usually have the following:

Who This Is For
Says things about you that you would agree are true.

Who This Is Not For
Describes the kind of person you don't want to think of yourself as.

Why We're Doing This

This slide is where they first mention selling to you. They say on the call they'll talk with you about your strategy (And they will, but they won't help you refine it. We'll cover that later) and if you both think you're a fit, they may invite you to become one of the new clients they accept this month (the words "this month" add a scarcity element).

If We Work Together
This is a future pacing slide that also lets you know there will be expectations of you if you get accepted (you will be expected to conform to their standards). Again they play on scarcity and ego too. The very fact you could be denied compels you to be among the first to get your free call.

Call To Action
The final slide of the webinar is a call to action. For Tier 3 & 4 gurus, this often goes to a sales page. Tier 1 and 2 gurus know it's better to send people straight to a booking page for a call (because $10,000+ sales happen on calls).


AND THAT'S THE WAY THE COOKIE CRUMBLES BABY...

By the end of the webinar, you've gone from skeptic who's never heard of the speaker, to extremely interested, motivated, informed prospect who needs to take action RIGHT NOW before you miss your chance to get your FREE strategy session where you'll learn how you can start to apply the 5 shifts to your business (remember one of those includes getting mentoring!).

Whew...

That was quite a read.

A little bit later we'll talk more on some of the cult indoctrination that's taking place here. I'll probably just do an entire lesson that brings all of those pieces together after we finish the main funnel topics.

Up next...

The FREE Strategy Call

Stay tuned...

P.S.

Imagine you weren't a savvy Fastlane entrepreneur...you hate your job and your life. You don't know about process. You still search for events. Can you see how easy it would be to "fall" for a webinar after reading the post above? But it can happen just as easily to Fastlaners too, and that's why we're talking about it. Never think it can't happen to you. You'll be the first person it happens to.

You're dropping bombs bro!

ol3sAJC.gif


AMAZING STUFF!!!!! You're on some next level shit.

Honesty.... thanks for sharing this stuff. It will help a lot of people from falling prey to these gurus. And you've given us wanna be gurus some really useful insight into how to improve our game whilst providing real value. I want to use this information for good, not just sell shit to the masses/hungry and run.

Rep+ given....

 
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Lex DeVille

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They don't teach to go for the kill with the credit card anymore.

Both silence and asking for the card are used and they both work. I've used the card line within the last year or so for programs over $2k and it worked just fine. Silence works fine too. But the card line is definitely still being taught because it works. I used to use it in collections and was always amazed by how some people would almost magically whip out their card and start reading off numbers if you said the right things.
 

Andy Black

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What Lex is showing is why I don’t like “online marketing”, even though you could argue that’s what I do.


I’m happy doing nice simple paid search ads.
  1. Search: “plumber dublin”.
  2. Ad: “Dublin Plumber”.
  3. Landing Page: “We’re plumbers. We’re in Dublin. Call Now”.

Similar to @Fox, I can’t quite work out how to help folks online without using all this guru-sh*t.

I won’t be reading Russell Brunson’s stuff, because he has “Secrets” in his book titles, and he is a genius online marketer who knows about “the hero’s journey” and how to create “the perfect webinar”. He even talks about how to create a cult-ure.

I actually have one of Russell’s books but it sits on my shelf unopened.

I like Russell’s stuff. I like Gary V’s stuff. But I stopped consuming their stuff a while back.


This is a case of I’d rather be right than rich.

Call me stubborn, but I’ll work out how to do this my own way.
 
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dgr

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This is a case of I’d rather be right than rich.

Call me stubborn, but I’ll work out how to do this my own way.
I used about 60% of the tactics exposed by SinisterLex to market a (quite good) online course I did several years ago. It worked quite well, but I stopped selling it.

I didn't feel good about it.

And the course was so impregnated with this kind of marketing that I refused to continue with it.

So I can understand what you say.

However, I still consume some "secrets" and guru shit, but more as entertaining purposes. It fascinate me how our minds and instincts react under certain words or stimulus.
 

Lex DeVille

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It worked quite well, but I stopped selling it.

I didn't feel good about it.

This is a big part of why I stopped running my programs and courses (except the low price ones on Udemy). I never built a full blown webinar funnel for myself. Just couldn't bring myself to do it. But I've used funnels in a similar fashion through other means. Most of my funnel systems come from places where people already get value. For instance, YouTube, and a paid ad on this forum.

Even with providing value first, I still don't like the sales methods for those high priced programs. It's hard to gauge how much value is enough to justify it, even when you "charge your worth."

One thing I like about studying how modern funnel systems work (even though this is a guru thread and not a funnel thread) is you can start to see their fail points. Those fail points become opportunity points in the future. So I like to look at how markets are being failed right now. That way I can figure out how to serve them better later on.
 

dgr

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One thing I like about studying how modern funnel systems work (even though this is a guru thread and not a funnel thread) is you can start to see their fail points. Those fail points become opportunity points in the future. So I like to look at how markets are being failed right now. That way I can figure out how to serve them better later on.
What a great mindset/approach. I'll wait for the progress thread for one of that fails ;)
 
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This thread really hits home for me.

I don't think there are too many people on here who offer high price courses but its a tough line when you do.
I have priced mine historically from $500-$2,500 and at the moment have close to 150 students.

Basically it is tough cause you know this kind of stuff works, you see everyone else using it, but of course you don't want to be one more passenger on the guru train.
I seen a 10X conference video yesterday where Grant Cardone was being lowered down from the roof on a platform with smoke, lights, and electronic rave music while everyone was cheering. Compare that to the recent reports of the Fastlane meetup where everyone is super low key, approachable, and genuine. I know which one I want to be at.

There is a lot wrong in the coaching/speaker industry. Probably always has been.

My approach moving forwards is to be really open about what I do, who I am, and what the course entails. I have been meaning to start a student thread in here so people can see that some succeed more than others and that a course can only get you so far. Any good course should give the students a place to provide direct and honest feedback.

But... a course is a tool, not a ticket.
Buying into any program (even legit ones) doesn't guarantee success. Neither does enrolling to be a doctor.
You got to show up, do the work, and apply and adjust what you learn.

If you are thinking of getting into teaching I recommend two things:

- Facebook group
Show people what you are about and help as many as you can for free. Build a community and give back as much as you can. I have posted on mine for over an hour a day easy for nearly 1.5 years. Jimmy-guru-webinar won't ever have that kind of track record. If you build it and maintain it they will see you are authentic.

- Youtube Channel.
Facebook has the depth but it doesn't have the reach. You can't have a 100,000 person group and keep order. If you want to get your message in front of a lot of people you need to go somewhere that has the big numbers. A video like "how to build a website" (in my niche) might have 5 million views. No way you can get in front of that amount of people anywhere else. Of course give as much value up front as possible and keep your videos promotion free. The select few who want to know more will seek it out through video links etc.

Also... The Course
You wouldn't knock a video on how to change the oil on your car. Or a detailed video course on how to learn guitar.
My point is real courses that offer clear value exist. Be one of those courses.
Build a program that delivers on what it promises and walks people through all the stages of learning. Provide support and a course community.
Maintain and update the content and make it better from feedback and past student results.

---

Kind of a rant post (!) but it is possible to have a legit course and get your message out there.
Also as a student its possible to take legit courses and see real progress. This thread is a great reference to show you how to decide which is which.

Excellent thread @SinisterLex and I hope it makes an impact on everyone on both sides of the fence here.
 
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Best content to come along in a LONG TIME.
Why take marketing in college when you can learn from @SinisterLex?

If You Make 'Em Cry, They'll Buy.
.

Mass-people venues like seminars use this trick too.

I went for a study camp when I was still in high school.

In one of the last days, the coaches asked us to close our eyes. The entire room was darkened.

One of the coaches, a lady, started speaking in a rather 'controlled' voice:

It went something like this:

'Imagine that you are all alone in the dark.'

'A door opens. You see your mother and father.'

'They were the ones that raised you from birth. They paid for you to go to this expensive camp, and they worked very hard for your sake.'

'Your parents are standing in the doorway, tears running down their cheeks.'

'They are saying, 'We're sorry. We couldn't be better parents for you. Can you forgive us?'


Guess what?

The entire room was filled with bawling kids.

I didn't join them. But there was some kind of voice in my head saying, 'She's right, you know. You have got to do something to make your parents happy. And that involves doing whatever the hell these coaches tell you to.'

And yes, the kids were either:
- Upsold into more support programs that bring more cash

or

- Became attendees of the NEXT study camp (WTF?)

This was from the Adam Khoo study camp I told you of, @Xeon

IMO, the effectiveness of the 'make them cry' method depends on existing guilt in the target.

Guilt of:
-Not doing enough work or effort (wantrapreneural tendencies)
-Not getting enough of resources ( money, dating leads, etc.)
-Not receiving enough attention from people
-Not getting rewards or social validation
And much more!

Guilt is probably the most prevalent human emotion, besides laziness. It's unbelievably FREE because if you know the pain points of people, guilt is weaponised by default!
 

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What Lex is showing is why I don’t like “online marketing”, even though you could argue that’s what I do.


I’m happy doing nice simple paid search ads.
  1. Search: “plumber dublin”.
  2. Ad: “Dublin Plumber”.
  3. Landing Page: “We’re plumbers. We’re in Dublin. Call Now”.

Similar to @Fox, I can’t quite work out how to help folks online without using all this guru-sh*t.

I won’t be reading Russell Brunson’s stuff, because he has “Secrets” in his book titles, and he is a genius online marketer who knows about “the hero’s journey” and how to create “the perfect webinar”. He even talks about how to create a cult-ure.

I actually have one of them but it sits on my shelf unopened.

I like Russell’s stuff. I like Gary V’s stuff. But I stopped consuming their stuff a while back.


This is a case of I’d rather be right than rich.

Call me stubborn, but I’ll work out how to do this my own way.
We don't need to apply 100% of these things.

And it comes down to the product and the actual relief it gives.

At the end of the day, I might see such techniques as sugar.

Sugar sweetens the cake, but I don't put a ton of it in the mix.
 

Gary

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This morning I logged into this thread first thing to catch up on this riveting tale. I then shifted on over to LinkedIN and the ad greeting me on my page was for Gurulocity. I might never have thought twice about it if @SinisterLex hadn't started this thread, but now I want to spit on this guy's website just because of the redonkculous name of his company.
 
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The-J

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What Lex is showing is why I don’t like “online marketing”, even though you could argue that’s what I do.


I’m happy doing nice simple paid search ads.
  1. Search: “plumber dublin”.
  2. Ad: “Dublin Plumber”.
  3. Landing Page: “We’re plumbers. We’re in Dublin. Call Now”.

Similar to @Fox, I can’t quite work out how to help folks online without using all this guru-sh*t.

I won’t be reading Russell Brunson’s stuff, because he has “Secrets” in his book titles, and he is a genius online marketer who knows about “the hero’s journey” and how to create “the perfect webinar”. He even talks about how to create a cult-ure.

I actually have one of Russell’s books but it sits on my shelf unopened.

I like Russell’s stuff. I like Gary V’s stuff. But I stopped consuming their stuff a while back.


This is a case of I’d rather be right than rich.

Call me stubborn, but I’ll work out how to do this my own way.

I agree. Nothing wrong with selling information. But there is something wrong with selling a dream. I have tried selling dreams, and every client I've gotten with that has honestly been the wrong kind for me.

Online marketing gets a bad rep because of the shady shit out there. Even the mainstream sees online marketing as a bit of a sleazy business.

There is a middle ground, and I think you've found it. Talk to business owners with pressing business problems and present what you can do as a solution. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, also great. How profitable is that middle ground, though, and can it be grown?
 

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There is a middle ground, and I think you've found it. Talk to business owners with pressing business problems and present what you can do as a solution. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, also great. How profitable is that middle ground, though, and can it be grown?
Maybe I'm wrong, but all of these guru tactics seem to be for B2C businesses?

I prefer having a B2B business than a B2C business. I want to spend my time in the company of business owners who wouldn't dream of sitting through an automated fake-live webinar.

I've no idea how much is spent every year by wannabe coaches and consultants. Probably a lot because there's many people being preyed on, but I suspect they don't get much ROI.

There's billions being spent every year by business owners to grow their business - because they have products to sell and many billions more is being earned.

Ultimately, it's my client's customers that pay me. If I can't get them more revenue via new customers, then my client eventually can't pay me and churns.
 

Smith11B

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Maybe I'm wrong, but all of these guru tactics seem to be for B2C businesses?

I prefer having a B2B business than a B2C business. I want to spend my time in the company of business owners who wouldn't dream of sitting through an automated fake-live webinar.

I've no idea how much is spent every year by wannabe coaches and consultants. Probably a lot because there's many people being preyed on, but I suspect they don't get much ROI.

There's billions being spent every year by business owners to grow their business - because they have products to sell and many billions more is being earned.

Ultimately, it's my client's customers that pay me. If I can't get them more revenue via new customers, then my client eventually can't pay me and churns.


You would think that was the case (and this was exactly my thought going in.), but in my year+ working there, I've seen it work from small guys starting social media agencies targeting local businesses to people who install $50k sound systems for corporations at events. We even had a guy who sold $25k whiteboard videos that you could find on Fiverr for like $10.

One of the most famous was an 18-year-old kid who sold $10k packages of Facebook ad management to large eCommerce stores. He's now doing $60 to $80k months and he isn't old enough to drink yet.

In the end, they're people too, and people can be exploited by the psychology of it. You just have to know who you're talking to.
 
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The-J

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Maybe I'm wrong, but all of these guru tactics seem to be for B2C businesses?

I prefer having a B2B business than a B2C business. I want to spend my time in the company of business owners who wouldn't dream of sitting through an automated fake-live webinar.

I've no idea how much is spent every year by wannabe coaches and consultants. Probably a lot because there's many people being preyed on, but I suspect they don't get much ROI.

There's billions being spent every year by business owners to grow their business - because they have products to sell and many billions more is being earned.

Ultimately, it's my client's customers that pay me. If I can't get them more revenue via new customers, then my client eventually can't pay me and churns.

I would say you're not far off. It's not the tactics that scream 'B2C', it's the imagery used.

The tactics could easily say "grow your profit/shareholder value/company cohesiveness" instead to make it more appealing to business owners. Instead, they say things like achieving dreams, not having money worries, etc. and they try to paint a lifestyle picture in the person's head.

Not only that, but painting a lifestyle picture works on business owners as well. Maybe less "go on vacation and live it up" or "finally have the money to do the things you want to do", but "imagine meeting with clients less and focusing more on getting shit done" (marketing automation) or "imagine prospects ringing your phone off the hook" (lead generation) or "imagine no longer having to deal with customer complaints" (customer service outsourcing).

Just a different way to paint the picture.
 

Andy Black

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I would say you're not far off. It's not the tactics that scream 'B2C', it's the imagery used.

The tactics could easily say "grow your profit/shareholder value/company cohesiveness" instead to make it more appealing to business owners. Instead, they say things like achieving dreams, not having money worries, etc. and they try to paint a lifestyle picture in the person's head.

Not only that, but painting a lifestyle picture works on business owners as well. Maybe less "go on vacation and live it up" or "finally have the money to do the things you want to do", but "imagine meeting with clients less and focusing more on getting sh*t done" (marketing automation) or "imagine prospects ringing your phone off the hook" (lead generation) or "imagine no longer having to deal with customer complaints" (customer service outsourcing).

Just a different way to paint the picture.
Maybe I'm hung up on it... but how many busy business owners will sit through an hour long webinar following "The Formula"? And fall for yet another hero's journey? I spent $999 in December to join an online community, mostly because there *wasn't* a webinar. Just lots of free content on a podcast that convinced me the guy knew his sh*t, and was authentic. I liked his material. I liked his style. I hit the buy now button.

I remember being on a Facebook course for local business owners. We were all asked if we used Facebook ourselves and everyone laughed. "I have an account, but I don't use it" was the consensus.

For me, "Sales is a screening process" rather than a persuading process.


Anyway... I feel I'm belabouring the point.

Carry on with the masterclass Sir Lex!
 

The-J

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Maybe I'm hung up on it... but how many busy business owners will sit through an hour long webinar following "The Formula"? And fall for yet another hero's journey? I spend $999 in December to join an online community, mostly because there *wasn't* a webinar. Just lots of free content on a podcast that convinced me the guy knew his sh*t, and was authentic. I liked his material. I liked his style. I hit the buy now button.

I remember being on a Facebook course for local business owners. We were all asked if we used Facebook ourselves and everyone laughed. "I have an account, but I don't use it" was the consensus.

For me, "Sales is a screening process" rather than a persuading process.

I don't think you're belabouring the point, I think you're supporting it. The webinar thing clearly caters to someone with that kind of time and who is already in a place to watch the webinar.

Instead of a hero's journey, a busy business owner mainly wants a solution to a problem and also wants to know how it fits. They also need to be sold on the person in the room/on the phone. That's your domain. Show, not tell.

But if you can't show, you better have something compelling to tell.
 
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used about 60% of the tactics exposed by SinisterLex to market a (quite good) online course I did several years ago. It worked quite well, but I stopped selling it.

I didn't feel good about it.

This is a big part of why I stopped running my programs and courses (except the low price ones on Udemy).

I've felt the same. I did B2C sales funnels and marketing emails, and the way those sell the best is with a lot of copy that is borderline manipulative.

The logic is that "hey, if it helps people, the ends justify the means!"

So people trick themselves into thinking they are helping people, when they are actually wreaking havoc on their internal dialogue. They become delusional.

I currently have an info-product that still sells on autopilot, and it does help people and I get happy messages from those customers all the time.

But I also cringe to show people I meet the product, the copy, the sales process. I am embarrassed to point the people I meet in my Yoga class to a product that can legitimately help them because of the sales tactics used to close the sale.

BTW, this definitely works B2B @Andy Black ....I closed a $5000 sale with a business owner for a B2B service. It doesn't work on employees (they don't want to be seen as being stupid), but it definitely works with people who have unilateral decision making power.
 

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