You guys are trying to scam me

[eifesu]

Greetings,

I've been doing quite the amount of lurking in this forum after reading TMF and this led me down the path of venturing into building a web design freelance business and I am running across a problem I find on way of solving.

So far, my prospecting method has been cold calling and I managed to land a handful of appointments where I could get the chance to learn more about their business. For the appointments where the clients were not a good fit nothing bad happened but I encountered a problem twice and this is where I would need advice : TRUST

My offer is to take care of the branding and web design of their company for X dollars with 50% paid upfront.

What happened twice (which is more than enough) would be that after the meeting the prospect would be convinced and more than ready to pay but would have to talk about it to their business partners before making the decision and this is where things go downhill. During the appointments they usually ask if I have an office where I can be found (that I do not have for obvious reasons) and this comes off as a red flag to them and they tend to think that they are getting scammed.

Whenever I would call back for payment and starting work they would say that even though they are ready to pay and agree with the offer they do not want to take the risk of getting ripped off and this is honestly frustrating because I've been missing deals because of this and I have no idea how to look more credible without renting a whole office.

How could I go about this ?

 

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[Cano]

My offer is to take care of the branding and web design of their company for X dollars with 50% paid upfront.

Don't take 50% up front when you're just starting out.

the market doesn't trust you yet, build trust first and then structure your offer that way.

 

[bpbrewer]

What if you go through 3rd party escrow service, or do the first few jobs through a service like upwork.com? They offer escrow services. The client may feel better that there's some protection on their end.

 

[dompie85]

When I started my IT company, my very first client was for a security camera installation and they paid 50% up front. I didn't have an office, or tools (yet), or any experience with the project (but i knew i could do it), or anything to show for (in regards to project history). What i did have was a pamphlet of information and a price breakdown so they knew what they were paying for. Also, it wasn't a small mom and pop shop. It was a client who owned part of a franchise. This may sound arrogant, but show some more effort that youre not trying to scam them. Build something easy for them, show them youre actually doing the work, and when they pay your deposit, scrap that "sample" and work on what you need to for them

 

[Skroob]

Are they giving you any reasons why they don't trust you?

My suggestion would be to break your work into more payments and more milestones. Instead of 50 upfront and 50 on completion, in your proposal you can lay out a timeframe with specific deliverables and require a payment at each one. They see work getting accomplished, they're inclined to believe in you more, which means more payments, repeat business, word of mouth, etc. Worked great for me back in my freelance days.

Oh, and for what it's worth, modern companies know that freelance web designers don't usually work out of an office. If they're demanding to come to your office "to prove that you're not a scam" or whatever, it's an excuse.

 

[heavy_industry]

Don't rent an office lol.

Create a professionally looking website for your business and start building a portfolio of reviews from clients.

Until you establish enough credibility you will have to take the risk yourself by doing the work first and getting paid afterwards (for the clients that don't want to pay upfront only).

 

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[eifesu]

Don't take 50% up front when you're just starting out.

the market doesn't trust you yet, build trust first and then structure your offer that way.

I understand, I have actually been thinking about it.
I will try this approach during my next meetings and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[eifesu]

Don't rent an office lol.

Create a professionally looking website for your business and start building a portfolio of reviews from clients.

Until you establish enough credibility you will have to take the risk yourself by doing the work first and getting paid afterwards (for the clients that don't want to pay upfront only).

I already have a good looking website and I also already have a portfolio of a handful of clients with my biggest one showcased on the website. I will probably take the risk of working first and getting paid afterwards as @01i said.

 

[Jeix]

I've seen friends of mine having the same issue in a variety of fields and I've felt it personally when I was trying to get some work as a translator.
If I were to do it today, I would start by making content showcasing how well I know the language and how I can be a benefit to anything who chooses me as their translator.
Nowadays, I've moved on to another industry (hobbies and collectibles) but I know the struggles of friends of mine who were flipping cards as a hobby, it was hard to get people to trust them and they were forced to use an escrow platform where they had to compete with giant stores who could beat them in both volume and service, leaving them with scraps.
It was a huge deal when we actually opened our store and had our own brand, I was surprised at the fact that people were willing to buy from us at an increased price because they trusted us over some random on social media, the face of the brand alone was driving sales.
I think the advice you received from the others is solid, just know that you are not the only one I've seen with this issue.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Greetings,

I've been doing quite the amount of lurking in this forum after reading TMF and this led me down the path of venturing into building a web design freelance business and I am running across a problem I find on way of solving.

So far, my prospecting method has been cold calling and I managed to land a handful of appointments where I could get the chance to learn more about their business. For the appointments where the clients were not a good fit nothing bad happened but I encountered a problem twice and this is where I would need advice : TRUST

First, congrats on taking action! You're ahead of 99% of the folks here on the forum. It's exciting to hear you DID something and got a result (might not be the result you WANT yet... but it'll get there!).

Second, two times is not a pattern, it's a coincidence.

As salespeople, if you put all your eggs in one basket, you're never going to have a good time.

It's frustrating when you're putting all your hopes, dreams, and desires (and bills) on these TWO clients. That risk needs to be spread out over 20 or 200 potential clients.

Because SOME won't have the money, SOME won't trust you, SOME won't get permission from the real decision maker -- there will be a reason a percentage of folks fall off. So if you have a LOT of booked meetings and potential clients, you'll be much happier.

Keep doing what you're doing just at a larger scale.

My offer is to take care of the branding and web design of their company for X dollars with 50% paid upfront.

This is pretty standard for most web design folks. If you're struggling to get your first clients, you might take the advice of these folks above -- but if I were you, I'd just get more confident in asking for the 50% AND create an agreement with them that clearly lays out what will be done by when.

You can use a delayed billing strategy, if you'd like, but you might find yourself working for free at times.

Maybe instead of a 50%, you change the language to $500 (or whatever)

What happened twice (which is more than enough)

Again, it's not a pattern. Don't let this freak you out. But I can share some language for you if it'll make you feel more confident below.

would be that after the meeting the prospect would be convinced and more than ready to pay but would have to talk about it to their business partners before making the decision and this is where things go downhill.

If you're doing a sale call appropriately -- you should NEVER get an objection.

There are 10 doors you need to close before you ever ask for money. If you get an objection, it was because you didn't close the door before you asked for money.

This objection you're talking about is the spouse/partner objection. "I have to check with X."

You didn't handle this upfront. One of your first questions in the discovery is if they're the decision maker -- BUT if you ASK someone if they're the decision maker or if their husband needs to be on the call -- you've lost them immediately (what a douchey thing to say).

So here's some language:

"I like this business you've built! Is it just you?"

"No, it's actually my partner and I."

"Oh cool, have you talked to your partner about building a new site? Or is this like a secret phone call we're on right now?"

"Haha, no we've talked about how our website is bad. We really need to update things"

This is a ridiculously oversimplified version but if at the end of the call, they say they need to talk to them, you can bring this up. "You told me here you talked about it before... would they be upset if you just went ahead and make an executive decision to get this up and running sooner rather than later?"

But hear me again: if you get this objection -- you didn't actually close that door up front. It's something you need to talk about in the discovery.

During the appointments they usually ask if I have an office where I can be found (that I do not have for obvious reasons) and this comes off as a red flag to them and they tend to think that they are getting scammed.

I don't know a SINGLE web developer who has an office.

Something you must be saying or doing is bringing up this objection. It's super weird. Are you Nigerian?

Why wouldn't you just say "I have a home office like every single professional web developer I've ever met! ... and actually I'll probably work on your website from the beach! Don't tell me you're a little jealous now!"

Whenever I would call back for payment and starting work they would say that even though they are ready to pay and agree with the offer they do not want to take the risk of getting ripped off and this is honestly frustrating because I've been missing deals because of this and I have no idea how to look more credible without renting a whole office.

How could I go about this ?

Again this is SUPER weird.

Give us the conversation in detail. Lay it out step by step.

 

[eifesu]

I've seen friends of mine having the same issue in a variety of fields and I've felt it personally when I was trying to get some work as a translator.
If I were to do it today, I would start by making content showcasing how well I know the language and how I can be a benefit to anything who chooses me as their translator.
Nowadays, I've moved on to another industry (hobbies and collectibles) but I know the struggles of friends of mine who were flipping cards as a hobby, it was hard to get people to trust them and they were forced to use an escrow platform where they had to compete with giant stores who could beat them in both volume and service, leaving them with scraps.
It was a huge deal when we actually opened our store and had our own brand, I was surprised at the fact that people were willing to buy from us at an increased price because they trusted us over some random on social media, the face of the brand alone was driving sales.
I think the advice you received from the others is solid, just know that you are not the only one I've seen with this issue.

Glad to know there are people in the same boat. There is definitely some work I can do to showcase more of the service I am providing and what I have done before.
I'll make sure to update on how things are going and apply this advice.

 

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[eifesu]

First, congrats on taking action! You're ahead of 99% of the folks here on the forum. It's exciting to hear you DID something and got a result (might not be the result you WANT yet... but it'll get there!).

Second, two times is not a pattern, it's a coincidence.

As salespeople, if you put all your eggs in one basket, you're never going to have a good time.

It's frustrating when you're putting all your hopes, dreams, and desires (and bills) on these TWO clients. That risk needs to be spread out over 20 or 200 potential clients.

Because SOME won't have the money, SOME won't trust you, SOME won't get permission from the real decision maker -- there will be a reason a percentage of folks fall off. So if you have a LOT of booked meetings and potential clients, you'll be much happier.

Keep doing what you're doing just at a larger scale.




This is pretty standard for most web design folks. If you're struggling to get your first clients, you might take the advice of these folks above -- but if I were you, I'd just get more confident in asking for the 50% AND create an agreement with them that clearly lays out what will be done by when.

You can use a delayed billing strategy, if you'd like, but you might find yourself working for free at times.

Maybe instead of a 50%, you change the language to $500 (or whatever)



Again, it's not a pattern. Don't let this freak you out. But I can share some language for you if it'll make you feel more confident below.



If you're doing a sale call appropriately -- you should NEVER get an objection.

There are 10 doors you need to close before you ever ask for money. If you get an objection, it was because you didn't close the door before you asked for money.

This objection you're talking about is the spouse/partner objection. "I have to check with X."

You didn't handle this upfront. One of your first questions in the discovery is if they're the decision maker -- BUT if you ASK someone if they're the decision maker or if their husband needs to be on the call -- you've lost them immediately (what a douchey thing to say).

So here's some language:

"I like this business you've built! Is it just you?"

"No, it's actually my partner and I."

"Oh cool, have you talked to your partner about building a new site? Or is this like a secret phone call we're on right now?"

"Haha, no we've talked about how our website is bad. We really need to update things"

This is a ridiculously oversimplified version but if at the end of the call, they say they need to talk to them, you can bring this up. "You told me here you talked about it before... would they be upset if you just went ahead and make an executive decision to get this up and running sooner rather than later?"

But hear me again: if you get this objection -- you didn't actually close that door up front. It's something you need to talk about in the discovery.



I don't know a SINGLE web developer who has an office.

Something you must be saying or doing is bringing up this objection. It's super weird. Are you Nigerian?

Why wouldn't you just say "I have a home office like every single professional web developer I've ever met! ... and actually I'll probably work on your website from the beach! Don't tell me you're a little jealous now!"




Again this is SUPER weird.

Give us the conversation in detail. Lay it out step by step.

Thanks for taking the time to write such an extensive answer, I am currently amazed at what I am reading.

It is true that I might be trying to find a pattern to early in this situation, it is just that it is extremely frustrating and wanted to find a way to avoid this in the future and lead potential clients into trusting me more. I actually do not intend on getting an office anytime soon as it would not make any sense at all at this point.

About where I live, I indeed live in a 3rd world country.

Regarding how the last situation went, here is a more detailed retelling:

- I met with a lead I had cold called in his office and spent the time asking him questions about his situation, where he wants to be and how I can help him. We had a great talk as I was able to qualify him and made an offer on helping them with their branding and web development. At the end of the meeting he said that he would have to talk to it with his partner before making the decision and paying so we could get started and I just left and handed him my business card.

- A few days pass so I call him to get an idea of how things are going so far and he tells me that even though he trusts me to some extent, his partner told him that making a deal without me even having an office is kind of suspicious and they are kind of on their guards due to them being scammed out of a deal before. I now have the contact of this partner and will be setting up an appointment for next week.

I am currently in the process of making a client brochure with more information on the process as well as previous clients and I plan to bring it to that appointment. I would also love to know more about that closing doors you mentioned in your reply.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Thanks for taking the time to write such an extensive answer, I am currently amazed at what I am reading.

It is true that I might be trying to find a pattern to early in this situation, it is just that it is extremely frustrating and wanted to find a way to avoid this in the future and lead potential clients into trusting me more. I actually do not intend on getting an office anytime soon as it would not make any sense at all at this point.

There are zero reasons for having an office. It's a virtual world.

BUT I'm starting to get a clearer vision here which leads me to...

About where I live, I indeed live in a 3rd world country.

Shoot me straight:

1. Where are you in the world
2. Why do you believe this is a bad thing

and you can probably guess my next question...

3. Why aren't you selling to Americans?

Regarding how the last situation went, here is a more detailed retelling:

- I met with a lead I had cold called in his office and spent the time asking him questions about his situation, where he wants to be and how I can help him. We had a great talk as I was able to qualify him and made an offer on helping them with their branding and web development. At the end of the meeting he said that he would have to talk to it with his partner before making the decision and paying so we could get started and I just left and handed him my business card.

This is making more sense. I was imagining you on a zoom call with this person. You met locally and cold-called. You can certainly put your home office on your business card but for some local brick & mortar business owners (regardless of what country you're in) -- have a weird old-school way of looking at things.

I've had a business card maybe once or twice in my life... and if anyone were to ask me for my business card these days I'd laugh at them (probably not an appropriate response in this situation )

- A few days pass so I call him to get an idea of how things are going so far and he tells me that even though he trusts me to some extent, his partner told him that making a deal without me even having an office is kind of suspicious and they are kind of on their guards due to them being scammed out of a deal before. I now have the contact of this partner and will be setting up an appointment for next week.

This should've been handled in the discovery, too. One of the questions you can ask is

"What have you tried in the past?" or "What have you tried that didn't work for you?"

I am currently in the process of making a client brochure with more information on the process as well as previous clients and I plan to bring it to that appointment.

Visual aids are incredible sales tools. Not only to keep you on task but to get someone to understand the process. "Step 1 is this. Step 2 is this."

Whenever I give presentations, I often use shapes. A triangle or a diamond. "Do me a favor, Mr. Eifesu I know we're talking on the phone and this is kind of weird but would you just draw a diamond on your notes? At the top write down "Discovery" because our first step in this process is to TRULY understand what you want your customer to do and how you want them to interact with you on your webpage... (yadda yadda)

I would also love to know more about that closing doors you mentioned in your reply.

That's a few hour seminar I've taught many times but I can share a few notes here:

Before you ask for money or even present the solution you need to know...

• Why now?
• What is causing their problems?
• What's the impact?
• How is it effecting them personally/emotionally?
• What is the motivation to want to change?
• Why not stay where they are?
• Why haven't they been able to do this on their own?

Ultimately they need to be telling THEMSELVES they have a clear gap & a strong desire to change immediately. And the final thing is making sure they A.) have the money, and B.) are willing to spend it to get what they want.

A lot of people have the money but no desire to spend it. And a lot of people have the desire for the service, but no money.

AFTER you've gotten all these answered, THEN you can go into the transition and presentation and the offer.

 

[eifesu]

There are zero reasons for having an office. It's a virtual world.

BUT I'm starting to get a clearer vision here which leads me to...



Shoot me straight:

1. Where are you in the world
2. Why do you believe this is a bad thing

and you can probably guess my next question...

3. Why aren't you selling to Americans?




This is making more sense. I was imagining you on a zoom call with this person. You met locally and cold-called. You can certainly put your home office on your business card but for some local brick & mortar business owners (regardless of what country you're in) -- have a weird old-school way of looking at things.

I've had a business card maybe once or twice in my life... and if anyone were to ask me for my business card these days I'd laugh at them (probably not an appropriate response in this situation )



This should've been handled in the discovery, too. One of the questions you can ask is

"What have you tried in the past?" or "What have you tried that didn't work for you?"




Visual aids are incredible sales tools. Not only to keep you on task but to get someone to understand the process. "Step 1 is this. Step 2 is this."

Whenever I give presentations, I often use shapes. A triangle or a diamond. "Do me a favor, Mr. Eifesu I know we're talking on the phone and this is kind of weird but would you just draw a diamond on your notes? At the top write down "Discovery" because our first step in this process is to TRULY understand what you want your customer to do and how you want them to interact with you on your webpage... (yadda yadda)



That's a few hour seminar I've taught many times but I can share a few notes here:

Before you ask for money or even present the solution you need to know...

• Why now?
• What is causing their problems?
• What's the impact?
• How is it effecting them personally/emotionally?
• What is the motivation to want to change?
• Why not stay where they are?
• Why haven't they been able to do this on their own?

Ultimately they need to be telling THEMSELVES they have a clear gap & a strong desire to change immediately. And the final thing is making sure they A.) have the money, and B.) are willing to spend it to get what they want.

A lot of people have the money but no desire to spend it. And a lot of people have the desire for the service, but no money.

AFTER you've gotten all these answered, THEN you can go into the transition and presentation and the offer.

Regarding my exact location I do not want to disclose it. I also do not see it as a bad thing in itself.

I have actually never thought of selling to Americans, I think I can make a difference on a local scale and that is what I am going for, at least for now.

About the questions I asked during the discovery, I certainly asked some of them, what they are willing to change, why do they want to change, if they have the money, so far and so forth. It is however true that I do not quite yet master this phase of the appointment and do not spend as much time in this phase as I probably should.

One thing to note is that this was a cold lead, so I kind of have to make them aware of the gap as you have said. They also reassured me that they had the money ready.
But I can definitely say that at the end of the meeting they had a clear idea of the issue and a strong desire to change, things just went downhill when they met their partner, which already happened before.

Delaying payment sounds like what I may want to do for now, while this is definitely not ideal, I do not see any other actionable alternative for now.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Regarding my exact location I do not want to disclose it. I also do not see it as a bad thing in itself.

Secret agent man

I have actually never thought of selling to Americans, I think I can make a difference on a local scale and that is what I am going for, at least for now.

320 million people with means and money. There are 86 million small businesses in the U.S. ... do you think some of them might have a shitty website? (i.e. all of them)

About the questions I asked during the discovery, I certainly asked some of them, what they are willing to change, why do they want to change, if they have the money, so far and so forth. It is however true that I do not quite yet master this phase of the appointment and do not spend as much time in this phase as I probably should.

If you tell them, they can argue.

If they tell themselves, it has to be true.

One thing to note is that this was a cold lead, so I kind of have to make them aware of the gap as you have said. They also reassured me that they had the money ready.

The only difference is crossing the barrier between stranger and meeting. You got the meeting so it wasn't cold anymore.

The way you overcome this is the offer.

But I can definitely say that at the end of the meeting they had a clear idea of the issue and a strong desire to change, things just went downhill when they met their partner, which already happened before.

Again, because you didn't cover the "spouse" door before you even said what you were going to do for them or how much.

Delaying payment sounds like what I may want to do for now, while this is definitely not ideal, I do not see any other actionable alternative for now.

That comes down to the offer. I'll do X or your money back...

Or, I'll do X and don't pay me until it's done AND you get your first client from your website.

That's another way to phrase the offer. I wouldn't ever do it that way but I hope it helps get the gears turning

 

[Jeix]

From personal experience, I often "talk to my partners about it" and then tell you they said no because I'm too ashamed to saying no myself after the appointment we had and the time you took for me. I'm sure it's not a thing that happens all the time and for that same reason you shouldn't believe it's always the partners that ruin it. Often if people are looking for something they'll ask more than just you and then compare to find the best offer. When we were looking for a bank for our company we booked an appointment with the first one we went to but then we canceled because the second one we visited offered us a better deal.

As for what you could offer, you could go for a payment based on milestones (a bit at the start, a bit after a certain goal has been reached and the rest at the end), you could offer a discount if the customer chooses to pay a bigger chunk (or everything) up front and so on, there's no rules really.

As other people have said, 2 people isn't a trend, it's a coincidence. Most of your leads will go nowhere, it's very much a funnel where you start with a big group and it keeps getting smaller and smaller until you find the actual customer. Without the big group at the start though you'll never find the actual customer. I'm sure you've already noticed this trend based on how many appointments you get per call you make.

If your technique is good, eventually you'll find one and you can start building your portfolio from there.

Hope this helps.

 

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[Albert KOUADJA]

Awesome thread for prospecting. Thank you to everyone who intervened to tell what he knows about prospecting.

Yes, it's normal for people to have a shadow of doubt in their brains, especially those who have no idea of online services. it's not physical, and Human beings trust things they've seen before. But that's no excuse not to Continue to present your services. A developer does not necessarily need an office. if he has a website it's good to establish trust with his prospects and if he doesn't it's also good but just that he needs enough convincing arguments to obtain prospects.

For example, I started prospecting. I talked to retail store owners about setting up a website for them but they had a hard time figuring out what it was. When I talk to them, they say they'll think it over and get back to me later. Even our Head of Service, when I talk about this, he directly says that they have a . and when i got him to show it to me because i knew they didn't he showed me their email address. And I was shocked that an intellectual leader like him couldn't understand online services. It's really ridiculous but it's the reality.

now I would be more focused on big business. Those who don't have one I will try to create one for them and if they have one I will try to find improvements to make to their site.

concerning, small businesses, they, I will work on my site and as soon as it is online, I will do with them.I'm sure our deal would work since it would be free. They will pay if and only if their product has been purchased.

We have work to do so get to work ✊✊

 

[Archer_Zero]

Greetings,

I've been doing quite the amount of lurking in this forum after reading TMF and this led me down the path of venturing into building a web design freelance business and I am running across a problem I find on way of solving.

So far, my prospecting method has been cold calling and I managed to land a handful of appointments where I could get the chance to learn more about their business. For the appointments where the clients were not a good fit nothing bad happened but I encountered a problem twice and this is where I would need advice : TRUST

My offer is to take care of the branding and web design of their company for X dollars with 50% paid upfront.

What happened twice (which is more than enough) would be that after the meeting the prospect would be convinced and more than ready to pay but would have to talk about it to their business partners before making the decision and this is where things go downhill. During the appointments they usually ask if I have an office where I can be found (that I do not have for obvious reasons) and this comes off as a red flag to them and they tend to think that they are getting scammed.

Whenever I would call back for payment and starting work they would say that even though they are ready to pay and agree with the offer they do not want to take the risk of getting ripped off and this is honestly frustrating because I've been missing deals because of this and I have no idea how to look more credible without renting a whole office.

How could I go about this ?

if there are shared offices / coworking spaces in your city, they can be an affordable option that you can rent & list as your office.

 

[Fox]

Greetings,

I've been doing quite the amount of lurking in this forum after reading TMF and this led me down the path of venturing into building a web design freelance business and I am running across a problem I find on way of solving.

So far, my prospecting method has been cold calling and I managed to land a handful of appointments where I could get the chance to learn more about their business. For the appointments where the clients were not a good fit nothing bad happened but I encountered a problem twice and this is where I would need advice : TRUST

My offer is to take care of the branding and web design of their company for X dollars with 50% paid upfront.

What happened twice (which is more than enough) would be that after the meeting the prospect would be convinced and more than ready to pay but would have to talk about it to their business partners before making the decision and this is where things go downhill. During the appointments they usually ask if I have an office where I can be found (that I do not have for obvious reasons) and this comes off as a red flag to them and they tend to think that they are getting scammed.

Whenever I would call back for payment and starting work they would say that even though they are ready to pay and agree with the offer they do not want to take the risk of getting ripped off and this is honestly frustrating because I've been missing deals because of this and I have no idea how to look more credible without renting a whole office.

How could I go about this ?

They can't see a clear way to trust you.
No trust = no payment.

But you don't need an office, you just need proof you are legit.

Go do some free work for a reputable business that shows you really helped them.
Highlight this work in a portfolio site and also link to some personal content platforms like Twitter or Linkedin.

They just need to see you are a real person.

Also, make sure your email name, photo, zoom set up etc. all look professional also.

 

[eifesu]

They can't see a clear way to trust you.
No trust = no payment.

But you don't need an office, you just need proof you are legit.

Go do some free work for a reputable business that shows you really helped them.
Highlight this work in a portfolio site and also link to some personal content platforms like Twitter or Linkedin.

They just need to see you are a real person.

Also, make sure your email name, photo, zoom set up etc. all look professional also.

I understand this.

I already have work that I have done for two businesses among which one is on my website. I mentioned these previous works and how it benefited them but probably brushed over it and I do not think they visited the website at all. I will make sure to highlight it more from now on.

I am also pretty confident they know I am a real person since we met (lol).
I will definitely see how I can make the whole thing look more legit, it be reworking the website or talking about it more in-depth.

 

[Andy Black]

Ha. Great thread title. Came in as a moderator wondering wtf was going on and expecting a train wreck or flame-war.

Adding my 2c in case it helps. I don't do websites but we build Google Ads campaigns and landing pages so it's not a million miles away.

1) All my enquiries are inbound, mostly referrals from current or past clients, or referrals from people who've read content I posted online.

2) I post a lot of content online, and it's mostly in forums, Facebook groups, or on social media profiles. I don't have a website per se, or a blog. My YouTube channel is so people I've already spoken to can check me out. I don't get enquiries from YouTube.

3) Most of what I post is business related but not about Google Ads. People can check out my profiles to learn more about me, and they can follow the breadcrumbs to my personal branded website. AndyBlack.net is just a single Linktr.ee style page linking to my social media profiles, articles on this forum, a workshop on YouTube, some courses, and an enquiry form.

4) I don't have lead magnets or otherwise build an email list. People mostly make contact by messaging me via social media platforms (LinkedIn and Facebook mainly).

5) I converse with people via messenger and sometimes go to Zoom. Those are just chats and not discovery calls. Maybe they're discovery calls in a way but I approach them as a way to make friends, build relationships, and create win-wins. I just like chatting to people.

6) I don't have a portfolio per se, but drop in lots of stories by way of explanation, and this also helps "show, don't tell" my experience. No-one's every asked for a portfolio, but maybe I've pre-empted it with all the experience on my LinkedIn profile and all the stories I told on the call.

I don't gave an office and no-one's ever asked.

7) Sometimes people hire me after those chats. Most of the time that's one more person out there who refers people to me ... for many years to come.

8) This compounds over the years. I only get a trickle of inbound enquiries, but it's enough since my business is sticky (we only offer a monthly recurring service).


Here's a video where I discussed with a forum member how I chat with people who approached me looking for help:

MARKETING - A chat about selling marketing services

@xShepherdx posted last week about his frustrations hiring a marketing freelancer. We've never spoken but I offered to hop on a call and chat about it. If you watch then please add your notes and I'll add them to this opening post. What's your takeaways? What will you do different going...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

 

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[Andy Black]

That’s interesting Andy, I can see why people do that - everyone who gets on a call with you can see that you genuinely care and aren’t in it just for the money.

I’m curious though, isn’t it hard to scale without a reliable outbound way of getting clients? I mean referrals are awesome, but it tends to be something that you don’t fully control, maybe they come, maybe they don’t!

Great question.

I'm not trying to scale my consulting. There's only so many clients I can deal with personally and I don't want to delegate for many reasons.

For productised services we're mostly white-labelled to agencies. We only need a few agencies to get swamped with work.

Me bouncing around online brings enough enquiries from agencies and businesses as it is.

If I was to try to scale quicker I'd use inbound more intentionally before looking at outbound.

I'll get round to running ads given that's my skillset. I'll probably even run ads to B2C offers before doing B2B outbound.

 

[eifesu]

Ha. Great thread title. Came in as a moderator wondering wtf was going on and expecting a train wreck or flame-war.

Adding my 2c in case it helps. I don't do websites but we build Google Ads campaigns and landing pages so it's not a million miles away.

1) All my enquiries are inbound, mostly referrals from current or past clients, or referrals from people who've read content I posted online.

2) I post a lot of content online, and it's mostly in forums, Facebook groups, or on social media profiles. I don't have a website per se, or a blog. My YouTube channel is so people I've already spoken to can check me out. I don't get enquiries from YouTube.

3) Most of what I post is business related but not about Google Ads. People can check out my profiles to learn more about me, and they can follow the breadcrumbs to my personal branded website. AndyBlack.net is just a single Linktr.ee style page linking to my social media profiles, articles on this forum, a workshop on YouTube, some courses, and an enquiry form.

4) I don't have lead magnets or otherwise build an email list. People mostly make contact by messaging me via social media platforms (LinkedIn and Facebook mainly).

5) I converse with people via messenger and sometimes go to Zoom. Those are just chats and not discovery calls. Maybe they're discovery calls in a way but I approach them as a way to make friends, build relationships, and create win-wins. I just like chatting to people.

6) I don't have a portfolio per se, but drop in lots of stories by way of explanation, and this also helps "show, don't tell" my experience. No-one's every asked for a portfolio, but maybe I've pre-empted it with all the experience on my LinkedIn profile and all the stories I told on the call.

I don't gave an office and no-one's ever asked.

7) Sometimes people hire me after those chats. Most of the time that's one more person out there who refers people to me ... for many years to come.

8) This compounds over the years. I only get a trickle of inbound enquiries, but it's enough since my business is sticky (we only offer a monthly recurring service).


Here's a video where I discussed with a forum member how I chat with people who approached me looking for help:

MARKETING - A chat about selling marketing services

@xShepherdx posted last week about his frustrations hiring a marketing freelancer. We've never spoken but I offered to hop on a call and chat about it. If you watch then please add your notes and I'll add them to this opening post. What's your takeaways? What will you do different going...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

That’s an interesting way to go about things and that is something I am honestly considering after getting clients.

However I believe this takes a lot of time to snowball to the point where you are and I would like to know more how you would approach outbound sales or if you have any useful links about this.

 

[Andy Black]

That’s an interesting way to go about things and that is something I am honestly considering after getting clients.

However I believe this takes a lot of time to snowball to the point where you are and I would like to know more how you would approach outbound sales or if you have any useful links about this.

It didn't take long for me to get initial clients. Check out my Inbound/Sales thread in my signature.

 

[Johnny boy]

“Our central office is at *list some coworking space, who gives a shit* but we receive mail at “po box 69420” and right now all of our developers are working remotely since covid, since we don’t work on your website with hammers and shovels, it’s pretty cool we can do it all online and all meetings are done via zoom”.

This should make them feel like a moron for asking.

This should not be needed to be taught to you, you should just know how to communicate.

Life has about 500 million little fake roadblocks where you just walk around it and only morons are stuck there still.

 

[eifesu]

“Our central office is at *list some coworking space, who gives a shit* but we receive mail at “po box 69420” and right now all of our developers are working remotely since covid, since we don’t work on your website with hammers and shovels, it’s pretty cool we can do it all online and all meetings are done via zoom”.

This should make them feel like a moron for asking.

This should not be needed to be taught to you, you should just know how to communicate.

Life has about 500 million little fake roadblocks where you just walk around it and only morons are stuck there still.

View attachment 46688

Appreciate your message, your delivery a little less.
Thanks nonetheless.

 

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[Kevin88660]

Greetings,

I've been doing quite the amount of lurking in this forum after reading TMF and this led me down the path of venturing into building a web design freelance business and I am running across a problem I find on way of solving.

So far, my prospecting method has been cold calling and I managed to land a handful of appointments where I could get the chance to learn more about their business. For the appointments where the clients were not a good fit nothing bad happened but I encountered a problem twice and this is where I would need advice : TRUST

My offer is to take care of the branding and web design of their company for X dollars with 50% paid upfront.

What happened twice (which is more than enough) would be that after the meeting the prospect would be convinced and more than ready to pay but would have to talk about it to their business partners before making the decision and this is where things go downhill. During the appointments they usually ask if I have an office where I can be found (that I do not have for obvious reasons) and this comes off as a red flag to them and they tend to think that they are getting scammed.

Whenever I would call back for payment and starting work they would say that even though they are ready to pay and agree with the offer they do not want to take the risk of getting ripped off and this is honestly frustrating because I've been missing deals because of this and I have no idea how to look more credible without renting a whole office.

How could I go about this ?

50% of what?

Does X dollar mean you will take care of the brand and website for your entire lifetime?

If you want them badly just ask for smaller down payments. It is like if they do not want to take the risk of trusting you then you have to take more risk by trusting them for it to work.

When you have a bigger portfolio to show off and more credentials to display you can call the shots.

The fastest way to gain trust is to show that you are willing to trust them.

Statistically, even if you meet two jerks for very good client who is going to have a lot of referrals, you will still have net long-term gains.

You have to see the two sides that while they don't trust you, you don't trust them entirely as well.

But it seems strange that your clients want to see a physical office when you are providing a service that is online in nature.

I would see the physical office as a "red flag" because the higher customer acquisition cost has to be eventually passed to me. I am far more likely to be ripped off.

 

[eifesu]

UPDATE #1
9/1/23

I managed to get a meeting with the collaborator of the prospect that led me down the path of learning how to earn trust.

We met an hour ago, and he had a few questions on the actual deliverables that they would get in this project as well as the cost of the project. He apparently did not get much information from my prospect as he was missing a lot of crucial information regarding the project.

I tackled their concern about risk as soon as I could and tried my best to relate as much as I could and explain how the actual process would go as well as the fact that I understand that paying upfront for a service can seem risky and I am willing to receive compensation on completion as @O1i had suggested.

He seemed very understanding and said that he understood that they were getting a steal for how much they would be getting and that the only issue he had was that since it was a considerable amount of money this risk could be a dealbreaker to them and that he will report back to my prospect and call me very soon.

I have had my fair share of call promises during this sort adventure but I am quite optimistic about this.

Besides, one thing I had neglected when reading @Fox ’s as well as what @O1i said is that I had not yet garnered the market’s trust by doing enough relevant portfolio/free projects to showcase actual results. I will keep this in mind for my upcoming meetings and proposals.

 

[Cojo]

320 million people with means and money. There are 86 million small businesses in the U.S. ... do you think some of them might have a shitty website? (i.e. all of them)

I'm afraid to cold call U.S businesses due to my Nigerian accent. I have cold called them before though but didn't get any result

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

I'm afraid to cold call U.S businesses due to my Nigerian accent. I have cold called them before though but didn't get any result

American women love an accent. Maybe you just got the wrong people!

How many calls did you make? Have you tried following up with an email every time?

Call, Email, Call, Email.

I could probably teach a masterclass on cold calling these days. What you think is your liability is actually your asset.

My mentor taught me to "mind read" the audience. Tell them the worst possible thing they could be thinking before they think it/say it out loud.

Why not have fun with it? "Wait! Don't hang up! I'm not a Nigerian Prince! ... my brother is... but I'm a web designer! I know there's never a good time to talk about getting leads and sales from your website... but is now a halfway decent time?"