Why are sales letters selling only 1-4%?

[MRiabov]

Any good businessman had to become a good salesman at some point. For some, if was direct mail advertising, for some it was selling exterior cleaning outside of prospect's doors, and some got away with affiliate marketing.

For Robert Collier - one of the direct mail salesmen of 20th century, a good rate of conversion was 1.5%. 2% and people started looking at his copy. 3% and they threw a party. 4% and they published it in his book.

1-4%! Ask a man on the street to tell you time, and you'll get a "yes" almost every time you approach someone. But ask a man to order something with a risk-free guarantee by mail, and suddenly 1 in 50 - if you can write really good copy 1 in 25 - agrees to buy something he from you.

Not to be the starry-eyed entrepreneur, but can't we really get a commitment from 1 in 10 people? What does it take to raise a conversion of cold audience to such level?

Where is the man who did 10x ROAS on this forum? :-D

 

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[Johnny boy]

You can get 10x ROAS with a 1% response rate.

Cost per advertising unit delivered: $1

Deal rate: 1%

Cost per deal: $100

Average deal profit: $1000

1000/100=10x ROAS

Now you see why selling T-shirts to a broad audience on facebook where you make $6 profit on a sale becomes hard, but selling something that nets you $1000+ each sale targeted to a specific niche that needs your solution and can afford it, can be very lucrative.

My opinion is that the most important thing, if you are selling something normal and not the cure to cancer or anything, is to work backwards from the delivery and targeting of your outreach.

You need to be able to find the people you want to present your offer to...

And you need to be able to present it in bulk...

And it needs to be dirt cheap compared to the units of attention you get from each delivery.

For example:

I found software that scrapes the info of facebook groups and then sends 100 messages a day to the members one by one as to avoid getting banned.

I would see THAT as my business, just as much as the thing I'm actually selling.

Then you need to solve a problem for type of person who is on a facebook group who has that problem, and craft them an irresistible offer.

If you can't find the people and get in front of them for cheap, you are relying on selling something so good that everyone needs it immediately and tells people about it. That's very hard. You should have a business that does that ideally, but it is NOT easy.

If you succeed in business, there will be a REASON for it. This is a very important thing to understand. Something must be fundamentally different for there to be an edge that will explain your growth, unless you want average results.

You can make it cheaper. You can make it faster. You can have a unique product/service that is so much better than anyone else's.

But your ability to attract leads and convert can make you lethal in any business.

We mow lawns.

If you're in a facebook community group, your a$$ is getting a message from me.

If you call in and look for a service we don't offer, no worries, a local partner is showing up and giving you a quote for a deck or whatever you need, and we give them coupons for a free month of lawn care to give to you so it sweetens the deal for you to signup, they get paid commission for a referral, and now you have our advertisement coupon in your hands.

I get lists of phone numbers and send out ringless voicemails for 1.2 cents. So it costs $12 to tell $1000 people "hey, my name's John I have a local lawn care company in (city), and if you wanted lawn care services just give me a call! We do great work!". I just pick all numbers in an entire area code 0000-9999, someone's gonna call back.

To answer your post directly, you should focus on targeting, the method of outreach, being creative, presenting a good offer, and offering something where your LTV affords a ridiculous amount of outreach to be worth it.

There's a combo in there somewhere.

Something where it costs a very little to deliver
They'll pay attention to it
You know they are potentially in the market for what you offer
Scalable
etc.

Things like scraping fb groups and sending messages automatically.

List of businesses in an industry and sending ringless voicemails to them.

Stuff like that.

 

[MRiabov]

You can get 10x ROAS with a 1% response rate.

Cost per advertising unit delivered: $1

Deal rate: 1%

Cost per deal: $100

Average deal profit: $1000

1000/100=10x ROAS

Now you see why selling T-shirts to a broad audience on facebook where you make $6 profit on a sale becomes hard, but selling something that nets you $1000+ each sale targeted to a specific niche that needs your solution and can afford it, can be very lucrative.

My opinion is that the most important thing, if you are selling something normal and not the cure to cancer or anything, is to work backwards from the delivery and targeting of your outreach.

You need to be able to find the people you want to present your offer to...

And you need to be able to present it in bulk...

And it needs to be dirt cheap compared to the units of attention you get from each delivery.

For example:

I found software that scrapes the info of facebook groups and then sends 100 messages a day to the members one by one as to avoid getting banned.

I would see THAT as my business, just as much as the thing I'm actually selling.

Then you need to solve a problem for type of person who is on a facebook group who has that problem, and craft them an irresistible offer.

If you can't find the people and get in front of them for cheap, you are relying on selling something so good that everyone needs it immediately and tells people about it. That's very hard. You should have a business that does that ideally, but it is NOT easy.

If you succeed in business, there will be a REASON for it. This is a very important thing to understand. Something must be fundamentally different for there to be an edge that will explain your growth, unless you want average results.

You can make it cheaper. You can make it faster. You can have a unique product/service that is so much better than anyone else's.

But your ability to attract leads and convert can make you lethal in any business.

We mow lawns.

If you're in a facebook community group, your a$$ is getting a message from me.

If you call in and look for a service we don't offer, no worries, a local partner is showing up and giving you a quote for a deck or whatever you need, and we give them coupons for a free month of lawn care to give to you so it sweetens the deal for you to signup, they get paid commission for a referral, and now you have our advertisement coupon in your hands.

I get lists of phone numbers and send out ringless voicemails for 1.2 cents. So it costs $12 to tell $1000 people "hey, my name's John I have a local lawn care company in (city), and if you wanted lawn care services just give me a call! We do great work!". I just pick all numbers in an entire area code 0000-9999, someone's gonna call back.

To answer your post directly, you should focus on targeting, the method of outreach, being creative, presenting a good offer, and offering something where your LTV affords a ridiculous amount of outreach to be worth it.

There's a combo in there somewhere.

Something where it costs a very little to deliver
They'll pay attention to it
You know they are potentially in the market for what you offer
Scalable
etc.

Things like scraping fb groups and sending messages automatically.

List of businesses in an industry and sending ringless voicemails to them.

Stuff like that.

By the way, how much is your conv rate for voicemail?

... And the corrolary of conversion rates is this your post is this: if emails are personalised and they maybe pull 5% conv rate, there are at least 20, and probably 40-50 emails that need to be sent out before you can expect any results.
Because as of recent I've been spending 15-20.

For anyone new reading this: learn copy! I've tried to emulate pros by doing the exact same things, phrases and structures, but if you can't evoke the principles behind them, it'll never work.

Robert Collier's Letter Book is a godsend. I don't know the exact reasons behind the last 24 chapters other than source copy, watch Robert succeed and look Robert succeed, but I guess it'll be more necessary as I'll start actually sending it out. Read it if you know the basic rules of copy, and written a few letters, because without it you will not ever understand it. It's the practice which he reinforces, as well as good knowledge.

 

[Johnny boy]

By the way, how much is your conv rate for voicemail?

Super damn low

Depends on what I’m using it for and to who.

Takes thousands of messages sometimes lol

But it’s so cheap to send

 

[Two Dog]

Any good businessman had to become a good salesman at some point. For some, if was direct mail advertising, for some it was selling exterior cleaning outside of prospect's doors, and some got away with affiliate marketing.

For Robert Collier - one of the direct mail salesmen of 20th century, a good rate of conversion was 1.5%. 2% and people started looking at his copy. 3% and they threw a party. 4% and they published it in his book.

1-4%! Ask a man on the street to tell you time, and you'll get a "yes" almost every time you approach someone. But ask a man to order something with a risk-free guarantee by mail, and suddenly 1 in 50 - if you can write really good copy 1 in 25 - agrees to buy something he from you.

Not to be the starry-eyed entrepreneur, but can't we really get a commitment from 1 in 10 people? What does it take to raise a conversion of cold audience to such level?

Where is the man who did 10x ROAS on this forum? :-D

I'm betting your direct mail response rate is 0.00%. Go ahead and figure out why no one has run a 2 minute mile yet.

 

[RicardoGrande]

I'm betting your direct mail response rate is 0.00%. Go ahead and figure out why no one has run a 2 minute mile yet.

IIRC, @Oso running his old web dev agency sent about 5000 mailings/flyers and got his biz off the ground before he switched to hiring commission salesmen for lead gen and sales.

 

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[Guest050x2]

IIRC, @Oso running his old web dev agency sent about 5000 mailings/flyers and got his biz off the ground before he switched to hiring commission salesmen for lead gen and sales.

This is correct.

Nearly every potential client around me at the time was a business owned by older folks. I expected paper marketing to work, and as expected, my response rate was high.

Given how many businesses are still owned/operated by older folks - all over the world - paper marketing is solid, imo. Double check your numbers though in regards to cost. You'd be surprised to see how quickly the cost of shipping 5000 pieces of paper can skyrocket.

Cheers.

 

[Two Dog]

IIRC, @Oso running his old web dev agency sent about 5000 mailings/flyers and got his biz off the ground before he switched to hiring commission salesmen for lead gen and sales.

I didn't mean that DM doesn't work and can't be highly effective. I'm literally dusting off a 15YO sales letter campaign to send out in Oct. exactly because the market and buyers haven't changed in the slightest. The response and conversion rates are almost certainly going to be the about the same.

This post is just someone wondering why the best DM marketers "only achieve X while pocketing hundreds of millions of dollars" instead of actually doing anything at all. Or even doing ten minutes of basic industry research to ask a useful question. That's worth pointing out every once in awhile.

 

[Walter Hay]

For Robert Collier - one of the direct mail salesmen of 20th century, a good rate of conversion was 1.5%. 2% and people started looking at his copy. 3% and they threw a party. 4% and they published it in his book.

I ran a successful business back in the late 60s, with advertising and marketing along these lines:
Direct Mail. Conversion rate 4% +. How did it work? A killer headline that forced the recipient's brain to want to read on. In addition to that there was a PS in what looked like handwriting.

Most marketers won't bother with a PS, but they were often the lead producer.

USE A SAMPLE. I was selling small metal items and one was included in every envelope. Its presence could not be missed, so every envelope was opened out of curiosity. Included was a price list and colored brochure.

I won't go into my other marketing tactics, but overall sales grew so fast that to cope I had to franchise the business all over the country and three other countries. I will just leave you with my view on Direct Mail.

Walter

 

[Kybalion]

This graph generally represents the marketplace segments (for whatever offer) at any given time:


A good direct response campaign converts the 3% who are ready to buy.

Follow-up can get the 7%.

Content marketing/nurture campaigns etc can influence the prospects who have a need but are not ready to act.

Branding campaigns (think CocaCola ads) make them aware they actually have a problem (and therefore a need) so they move up the pyramid.

 

[Walter Hay]

Direct mail is not dead and in fact it is thriving. See this article: Direct Mail Marketing: Advantages and How to Use It for Your Business

Walter

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

Any good businessman had to become a good salesman at some point. For some, if was direct mail advertising, for some it was selling exterior cleaning outside of prospect's doors, and some got away with affiliate marketing.

For Robert Collier - one of the direct mail salesmen of 20th century, a good rate of conversion was 1.5%. 2% and people started looking at his copy. 3% and they threw a party. 4% and they published it in his book.

1-4%! Ask a man on the street to tell you time, and you'll get a "yes" almost every time you approach someone. But ask a man to order something with a risk-free guarantee by mail, and suddenly 1 in 50 - if you can write really good copy 1 in 25 - agrees to buy something he from you.

Not to be the starry-eyed entrepreneur, but can't we really get a commitment from 1 in 10 people?

The greatest study of life is how it is, not how we wish it would be.

With every consulting client I've ever taken on, I've had to have a ridiculous amount of conversations about expectations for offers, opt-ins, conversions, ads, spend, and everything. 99.9999% of people I've ever met have a ridiculous expectation of how *THEIR* offer/pitch/ad is going to perform (because, obviously, they're different/better/special/unique).

I've just learned now that every freaking phone call I get on I have to say ... "and what's our motto about brand new ads??? that's right... anything that works the first time is a complete F*cking miracle!"

Everyone forgets that context actually matters.

The Attention / Interest / Desire / Action process is different in every medium of sales. The reason you can't sell 1 out of 10 people (online or direct mail) is that you don't have their full attention.

If it's a direct mail piece, you're expecting someone to drop everything they're doing, and everything they're worried about, and all the other pieces of mail, all the bills, the kids screaming, the phone ringing, the schedule they have to keep -- to stop ALL that -- open up your letter, read the entire thing, and do exactly what you ask of them... what are the chances the heavens open up and all of those things stop all at once the second they receive your letter?

What about online? How many notifications are on your phone right now as you're reading this? How many emails? How many dings or buzzes? How many Tiktok videos did your buddies send you just now? Hey did you know Kim Kardashian's boobs are on the new American Horror Story? Oh hey check out these cats. What was I doing again? I'm hungry. Oh shoot I forgot to send that work email. I wish those kids would quiet down. They're probably making a mess again. I'd better go check to make sure. God I could use a drink. The damn cat puked on the rug again!

Where is the man who did 10x ROAS on this forum? :-D

I routinely get 10-30x ROAS. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But average around 15ish. I just did August numbers for for a client and it was only 5.88x which made me Hulk Smash (my keyboard).

What does it take to raise a conversion of cold audience to such level?

2 things: you stack the deck and you create contingency plans.

If you know 99/100 aren't going to buy the first time they see your offer... what should you do? Most people try to force it like you would in 1-on-1 sales. You put the pressure on. Use whatever sleazy sales tactics they can. Lie, cheat, steal, discount, negotiate, whatever it takes to make the sale... so they might get 2 out of 100...

Strategically, that's dumb and short-sighted. Instead of asking for a sale immediately, you can ask for less of a commitment. Ask them to raise their hand and see who's interested or not. Request a free report, join a free presentation, download an audio, watch a video -- something that warms them up to the idea of buying before they are even asked to buy.

Traditionally, that's what a sales letter should do... but without their contact information (and permission to market to them)... you've got one shot, one opportunity, to seize all mom's spaghetti. So the strategic move is not to get a customer but to get a lead (again, a lead is contact info + permission to market to them) ... then you've got MANY MANY more chances to sell to them...

I'm getting about a 50% opt-in for 3 different offers right now and a 10-15% for most of the others... but think about the difference in numbers. Instead of selling to just ONE out of 100... I now have 50 people who have raised their hands and said they are at least slightly interested AND they've given me permission to follow-up with them. That's how you move someone from "not interested" to "don't think I"m interested" to "maybe I'm interested" to "interested" to "buying now"

My dirty secret:

Everyone was always really impressed with my closing from stage. I can usually get 60-80% of the people in a room to buy a 1-3k product... but most people didn't understand I was stacking the deck. Here's an optional webinar/live presentation... you don't HAVE to be there... but it's on subject X... and there will be an invitation at the end.

If someone hates the subject, they won't show up. If they don't want to be there, they won't be there. If they aren't interested, they wont' show up... so just by the nature of those people being in that room -- they're already really far down the football field and very close to a "touch down" ... it just takes answering some questions/objections, showing proof, demonstrating the product does what you say it does and voila -- 80% conversion rate...

That being said... live in-person is different from online again. My best close for a webinar was 30% and usually average 20%... my best close for live from stage was 180% (most of the room bought more than 1)... with an average of 50%.

I guess here's my point with all this:

If you aren't so rigid with the rules, you can achieve ANY closing ratio you want... if you're flexible in your approach.. if you're financially able to wait longer for the purchase... (like you aren't desperate for immediate sales)... and you have super solid follow-up (where most sales are made anyways)... you can keep increasing it.

Hopefully it's helpful and not all rambling.

 

[MRiabov]

The greatest study of life is how it is, not how we wish it would be.

With every consulting client I've ever taken on, I've had to have a ridiculous amount of conversations about expectations for offers, opt-ins, conversions, ads, spend, and everything. 99.9999% of people I've ever met have a ridiculous expectation of how *THEIR* offer/pitch/ad is going to perform (because, obviously, they're different/better/special/unique).

I've just learned now that every freaking phone call I get on I have to say ... "and what's our motto about brand new ads??? that's right... anything that works the first time is a complete F*cking miracle!"

Everyone forgets that context actually matters.

The Attention / Interest / Desire / Action process is different in every medium of sales. The reason you can't sell 1 out of 10 people (online or direct mail) is that you don't have their full attention.

If it's a direct mail piece, you're expecting someone to drop everything they're doing, and everything they're worried about, and all the other pieces of mail, all the bills, the kids screaming, the phone ringing, the schedule they have to keep -- to stop ALL that -- open up your letter, read the entire thing, and do exactly what you ask of them... what are the chances the heavens open up and all of those things stop all at once the second they receive your letter?

What about online? How many notifications are on your phone right now as you're reading this? How many emails? How many dings or buzzes? How many Tiktok videos did your buddies send you just now? Hey did you know Kim Kardashian's boobs are on the new American Horror Story? Oh hey check out these cats. What was I doing again? I'm hungry. Oh shoot I forgot to send that work email. I wish those kids would quiet down. They're probably making a mess again. I'd better go check to make sure. God I could use a drink. The damn cat puked on the rug again!




I routinely get 10-30x ROAS. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But average around 15ish. I just did August numbers for for a client and it was only 5.88x which made me Hulk Smash (my keyboard).



2 things: you stack the deck and you create contingency plans.

If you know 99/100 aren't going to buy the first time they see your offer... what should you do? Most people try to force it like you would in 1-on-1 sales. You put the pressure on. Use whatever sleazy sales tactics they can. Lie, cheat, steal, discount, negotiate, whatever it takes to make the sale... so they might get 2 out of 100...

Strategically, that's dumb and short-sighted. Instead of asking for a sale immediately, you can ask for less of a commitment. Ask them to raise their hand and see who's interested or not. Request a free report, join a free presentation, download an audio, watch a video -- something that warms them up to the idea of buying before they are even asked to buy.

Traditionally, that's what a sales letter should do... but without their contact information (and permission to market to them)... you've got one shot, one opportunity, to seize all mom's spaghetti. So the strategic move is not to get a customer but to get a lead (again, a lead is contact info + permission to market to them) ... then you've got MANY MANY more chances to sell to them...

I'm getting about a 50% opt-in for 3 different offers right now and a 10-15% for most of the others... but think about the difference in numbers. Instead of selling to just ONE out of 100... I now have 50 people who have raised their hands and said they are at least slightly interested AND they've given me permission to follow-up with them. That's how you move someone from "not interested" to "don't think I"m interested" to "maybe I'm interested" to "interested" to "buying now"

My dirty secret:

Everyone was always really impressed with my closing from stage. I can usually get 60-80% of the people in a room to buy a 1-3k product... but most people didn't understand I was stacking the deck. Here's an optional webinar/live presentation... you don't HAVE to be there... but it's on subject X... and there will be an invitation at the end.

If someone hates the subject, they won't show up. If they don't want to be there, they won't be there. If they aren't interested, they wont' show up... so just by the nature of those people being in that room -- they're already really far down the football field and very close to a "touch down" ... it just takes answering some questions/objections, showing proof, demonstrating the product does what you say it does and voila -- 80% conversion rate...

That being said... live in-person is different from online again. My best close for a webinar was 30% and usually average 20%... my best close for live from stage was 180% (most of the room bought more than 1)... with an average of 50%.

I guess here's my point with all this:

If you aren't so rigid with the rules, you can achieve ANY closing ratio you want... if you're flexible in your approach.. if you're financially able to wait longer for the purchase... (like you aren't desperate for immediate sales)... and you have super solid follow-up (where most sales are made anyways)... you can keep increasing it.

Hopefully it's helpful and not all rambling.

You'd bet it's helpful

Well, as detailed in my execution thread, I've written some copy and now am sending it to masses. For now my open rates are 20% and response is none. I've used a "Send me your phone number" CTA initially, but I now changed the title to "Reply so I can talk through what marketing can do for your business"...

What kind of actions are best for cold emailing? I've read somewhere that asking for a meeting is too huge of a commitment initially. (yes, I will have to check it myself, but I can send only 50-100 emails per day - I can't just snap and know the best results for everything yet)

Just in case, copy attached here:

How a Businessman Won: Discover *what* will take your business to the next level​

So you did it. You've started and scaled a business, which now makes good profits and satisfies enough desires that you can lay on your money like those robbers from Breaking Bad



Now what?

WELL, now you want MORE!

More business, more orders, more customers...

What if you could get more customers?

The kind of ones that come to you themselves, willing to buy...

The kind of every architect loves and treasures: private residentials, 2000ft+ space...
Who don’t shop on the price, because they want your service.

What is the secret sauce? It is good marketing of your services.

You'll feel it when you have a couple of calls from a system that was set up mere hours ago, closing leads from which seems to be particularly simple. You'll feel it when you'll find a review of "I've found them on the Internet and they were absolutely amazing!".
Moreover, you'll remember that this customer brought in a couple of friends, too.

Yes, advertisement does not take away any of the word-of-mouth. In fact, if you can deliver truly supreme services, people will share even more. More customers. Bring more customers. More money that you take home... MORE!

And the best thing? You don’t even have to do anything about it. Set it up once, send some visitors to it (which we do), and enjoy how your phone is ringing, and how your bank account pops up.
And you may be afraid of committing before you see any results. And rightfully so. That's why you'll get our services for FREE UNTIL we get you 3, paying customers.
And if at any point until we get you first customers you suddenly want to cancel, or the business is suddenly out of cash - you can no-worry cancel our services before we finish.
And if at any point until we get you first customers you suddenly want to walk away , or the business is suddenly out of cash - you can no-worry cancel our services before we finish our work - no risky commitments here.
Yes, we are getting you customers for free.
And to claim this risk-free wonderful offer, allow us to call you in the time that suits you. Reply to this email, and send the time that feels good for a discussion of your business, and we'll show you how you can take your business to the next level.
But beware: we have only enough personnel to handle 2 free-until-results projects at once, and one is already in the works. There is only one place left, and if you don’t inquire, someone else may take it. Reply to this email right now, and maybe you'll get a chance to work through the no-risk scheme (and the next will, sadly, have to pay).
So send us your phone number right now and we'll build you a system that gets you customers - and you'll get at least 3 customers - or we don't charge you a penny. But beware: we have only enough personnel to handle 2 free-until-results projects at once, and one is already busy working. Send your contacts right now, and maybe you'll get a chance to work through the no-risk scheme. (and the next inquirer will have to pay).
Sincerely yours,
Max
P.S. I am creating a system for you that generates customers on autopilot for FREE. You can sit back and enjoy the profits flowing, and we won’t charge you a penny until we get you first 3 customers – free. Reply with the time that suits you and we'll talk through how you can take your business to the next level.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

You'd bet it's helpful

Well, as detailed in my execution thread, I've written some copy and now am sending it to masses. For now my open rates are 20% and response is none. I've used a "Send me your phone number" CTA initially, but I now changed the title to "Reply so I can talk through what marketing can do for your business"...

What kind of actions are best for cold emailing? I've read somewhere that asking for a meeting is too huge of a commitment initially. (yes, I will have to check it myself, but I can send only 50-100 emails per day - I can't just snap and know the best results for everything yet)

Just in case, copy attached here:

How a Businessman Won: Discover *what* will take your business to the next level​

I'll read through the execution thread after dinner but immediately red flags pop up with cold emailing..not that its a bad strategy but you're probably not sending NEAR enough... and you probably don't have a proper cold outreach campaign with multiple offers and angles... here I'll dm you a quick video and then I'll come back and try to give some better response here and on the execution thread

 

[ChrisStanton]

I know a guy that has ridiculous close rates from direct mail.

He uses large plain envelopes worth everything handwritten and something 3D inside to make it “lumpy.” It’s obvious there is something inside which makes people open it. It’s always something very cheap but relevant.

He then has an amazing headline in huge bold red letters right there that no one can miss.

He used Hormozis book to help him craft a great offer and combined that with solid copywriting skill. He’s selling something for 7k and makes around 5k profit for each sale.

I think direct mail is only worth it for most people if selling a high priced product with high profits.

 

[MRiabov]

Alright, I am thinking through it right now, and generally I think I need to improve 3 points in my prospecting:

1. The offer that I am sending

2. The copy (the length of it, at least. It's 2 A4 pages long)

3. The people who I am sending to and the mediums through which I am sending them to. (can't send cold email to electricians because they, well, don't have an email). I've collected electricians in one US state today, and they had a whopping 63 people who have a phone number but don't have a website. Either cold call, texts or voicemail drops then...

 

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[StrikingViper69]

I found flyers to would get a phone call 0.1% of the time. That was still enough to get loads of clients.

Following up worked 0% of the time across 100s of prospects. People either bought or they didn’t.

Whatever the particular rate is doesn’t matter. All that matters is - is it profitable?

 

[Antifragile]

@Kung Fu Steve already nailed it with a lengthy quality reply.

I'll add to it by saying that the reason why 1% can be seen as a good rate of conversion is because every transaction requires 3T: Triangulation, Transfer and Trust.

With cold email/letters/texts/calls ... you are shooting in the dark. It's a problem for 3T. You are trying to reach people who want your product in a huge crowd of people who don't. You want them to trust you, in the age where fraud is everywhere...

For example, from Michael Munger, sharing platforms can solve the three Ts quickly and cheaply:

• Triangulation means coordinating everyone involved in the transaction. In a food delivery transaction, those are the customer, the restaurant, and the delivery driver. Until recently, solving this coordination problem was so difficult that most restaurants did not offer delivery at all. And the ones that did had to hire their own drivers to work exclusively for them. Unless business was both brisk and consistent, this was a risky proposition. Today, sharing platforms can solve triangulation problems in seconds. As a result, restaurants that might not be able to afford full-time delivery staff can now share drivers with other businesses and earn additional sales, while customers gain additional choices.
• Transfer means making sure everyone gets paid. Uber, for example, has all parties’ payment info stored in the app. It automatically charges customers the right amount, pays restaurants and drivers, and handles tips. That is far easier than in the old days of cash, checks, or reading out your credit card number over the phone.
• Trust is all parties having confidence that everything will go as it should. This is what ratings systems contribute. Riders can avoid drivers with low ratings and drivers can avoid problem customers. They can do this in seconds just by glancing at their ratings. On the other side of the coin, high ratings can be lucrative for vendors, giving them a greater incentive to keep customers happ than a traditional cab driver. And keeping that five-star rating can encourage more civil behavior from customers. It doesn’t pay to be a Karen.

If you want a high closing ratio, solve for the 3T and your conversion will skyrocket.

It's not easy, but it is simple.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

How a Businessman Won: Discover *what* will take your business to the next level​

This is your first email? If so, I know what you're getting a lack of response... It's just not as good as you think it is.

I sent you that video so you create 5 different outreachs with the intention of capturing different types of thinkers -- but I'll say this: most business owners are High D (in the DISC profile), meaning your communication has to be short and to the point.

"What I've got, what it's going to do for you, what to do next"

Example:
======================
Subject: are the leads coming through?

Hey Bob,

I'm MRiabov and I'm a web designer focused on [insert their business] here.

I saw your page and I'm wondering... are you getting enough leads and sales from it every day?

I only ask because there are a few things your site is NOT doing that usually generate others in your industry incredible results and daily leads.

I made a mockup showing you the difference here: [insert link to a solo page showing their current site vs what they should be doing].

Would love to chat about it and you're the type of business I specialize in (and would like to partner with). Check out my portfolio below and if you think I might be "your guy" to get you more leads and sales from your website, I'd love to chat about it.

Portfolio: [insert link here]

MRiabov
Voice: +55555555
Text: +1235132516

==============================

Short, to the point, you're proving you can do the job. You're highlighting their weaknesses in a direct (but nice) way. And showing you know what you're talking about.

Not pushy, not needy, but direct.

If you were working with me, and in a perfect world, I'd have you call them the next day. "Hey Bob, this is MRiabov. I'm the web guy, did you see my email?"

... and then you'd send another email if he didn't pick up or respond

===================

SUBJECT: did you see this?

Hey Bob,

I sent you an email the other day but I didn't hear back right away. No problem, life's crazy over here, too. Here's the email again and let me know what you think about my proposal to partner up. Cheers.

I'm a web designer focused on getting leads for [insert their business] here.

I saw your page and I'm wondering... are you getting enough leads and sales from it every day?

I only ask because there are a few things your site is NOT doing that usually generate others in your industry incredible results and daily leads.

I made a mockup showing you the difference here: [insert link to a solo page showing their current site vs what they should be doing].

Would love to chat about it and you're the type of business I specialize in (and would like to partner with). Check out my portfolio below and if you think I might be "your guy" to get you more leads and sales from your website, I'd love to chat about it.

Portfolio: [insert link here]

MRiabov
Voice: +55555555
Text: +1235132516

=====================

Create 3-4 more of these. Schedule out the sequence. Find your top 100 folks you want to go after. And then just follow this process until you get 10 clients. Email 1, Call 1, Email 2, Call 2...

Focus on businesses you know you can get a good result for. Go the extra mile to take a screenshot of their current page and what it COULD look like right next to each other. Also point out 2-3 things they're missing (phone number, lead capture, FAQs, contact info, whatever)

Hope it helps.

 

[Walter Hay]

This thread seems to have become a catch-all for various sales, marketing, and advertising ideas, so I would like to add mine that adds the subject of Warm Calling.
SEE:

How I started and built my B2B importing empire​

WALTER

 

[MRiabov]

I found flyers to would get a phone call 0.1% of the time. That was still enough to get loads of clients.

Following up worked 0% of the time across 100s of prospects. People either bought or they didn’t.

Whatever the particular rate is doesn’t matter. All that matters is - is it profitable?

What kind of business are you doing? Followup should be effective...

This is your first email? If so, I know what you're getting a lack of response... It's just not as good as you think it is.

I sent you that video so you create 5 different outreachs with the intention of capturing different types of thinkers -- but I'll say this: most business owners are High D (in the DISC profile), meaning your communication has to be short and to the point.

"What I've got, what it's going to do for you, what to do next"

Example:
======================
Subject: are the leads coming through?

Hey Bob,

I'm MRiabov and I'm a web designer focused on [insert their business] here.

I saw your page and I'm wondering... are you getting enough leads and sales from it every day?

I only ask because there are a few things your site is NOT doing that usually generate others in your industry incredible results and daily leads.

I made a mockup showing you the difference here: [insert link to a solo page showing their current site vs what they should be doing].

Would love to chat about it and you're the type of business I specialize in (and would like to partner with). Check out my portfolio below and if you think I might be "your guy" to get you more leads and sales from your website, I'd love to chat about it.

Portfolio: [insert link here]

MRiabov
Voice: +55555555
Text: +1235132516

==============================

Short, to the point, you're proving you can do the job. You're highlighting their weaknesses in a direct (but nice) way. And showing you know what you're talking about.

Not pushy, not needy, but direct.

If you were working with me, and in a perfect world, I'd have you call them the next day. "Hey Bob, this is MRiabov. I'm the web guy, did you see my email?"

... and then you'd send another email if he didn't pick up or respond

===================

SUBJECT: did you see this?

Hey Bob,

I sent you an email the other day but I didn't hear back right away. No problem, life's crazy over here, too. Here's the email again and let me know what you think about my proposal to partner up. Cheers.

I'm a web designer focused on getting leads for [insert their business] here.

I saw your page and I'm wondering... are you getting enough leads and sales from it every day?

I only ask because there are a few things your site is NOT doing that usually generate others in your industry incredible results and daily leads.

I made a mockup showing you the difference here: [insert link to a solo page showing their current site vs what they should be doing].

Would love to chat about it and you're the type of business I specialize in (and would like to partner with). Check out my portfolio below and if you think I might be "your guy" to get you more leads and sales from your website, I'd love to chat about it.

Portfolio: [insert link here]

MRiabov
Voice: +55555555
Text: +1235132516

=====================

Create 3-4 more of these. Schedule out the sequence. Find your top 100 folks you want to go after. And then just follow this process until you get 10 clients. Email 1, Call 1, Email 2, Call 2...

Focus on businesses you know you can get a good result for. Go the extra mile to take a screenshot of their current page and what it COULD look like right next to each other. Also point out 2-3 things they're missing (phone number, lead capture, FAQs, contact info, whatever)

Hope it helps.

Okay, so today I will sit down, and create simple mail merge mockups from what you've posted and just excel sheet all the images and text into it for speed. Then send to about 30-50 people with GMass and maybe, I will get one conversion from it.

 

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[StrikingViper69]

What kind of business are you doing? Followup should be effective...

People always say that. I came to the conclusion that business are different. This was for teaching guitar locally.

I followed up on 100s of people, through text, email, phone calls; they just weren't interested. In retrospect, it was a mammoth waste of time. I'd have been more productive using that time to take a nap.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Okay, so today I will sit down, and create simple mail merge mockups from what you've posted and just excel sheet all the images and text into it for speed. Then send to about 30-50 people with GMass and maybe, I will get one conversion from it.

What's the first rule of advertising...?

Anything that works the first time is a ... that's right... complete F*cking miracle!

Build, send, edit, send, try again.

And mass emailing kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it? ... I mean the whole point of screenshotting their website and showing them where they have weaknesses that you fix?

 

[Antifragile]

I think of cold outreach very differently than most people.

Most people here will tell you to go super personalized and deliver a lot of value.

I disagree.

In my experience that is a complete waste of time.

I once did that for 100 people. Literarily took an in-depth look at them, went hyperpersonalized, did a loom for them etc.

Most of them didn’t even look at it. Can you imagine? They don’t even open it or give it 2 seconds.

So why put so much work into it? Send the same email to 1,000 people, and do the personalization AFTER once they’ve raised their hands and showed some interest.

Why would you invest effort if people show no interest? I guess this is in disagreement with people like @Antifragile but I think marketing is about, excuse the word, finding the marks. The people who will bite.

Doesn’t mean you scam them, it just means you filter for the people who are open to the idea. If they’re not open, what’s the point of going in-depth on their website?? It won’t help anyway.

So first figure out who is open to doing business via cold email and has some interest to find out more about what you do. Only THEN provide your value and personalization.

Thanks for the tag. I don't know if we disagree on this. The whole point of advertising is to reach the largest audience possible in effort to capture attention of those who will buy. If I never knew of a toothpaste that was awesome but saw an ad and tried it and now I buy 100s of them for me and my family, am I a "mark" or a consumer? Clearly no one cheated me with just an add.

Same with sales letters.

My comment on 3T was to demonstrate that when you are doing mass advertising, there is still a better and worse way of going about it. The best ads are still targeted. If I had a way to eliminate 80% of people who are my clear "NO", why shouldn't I do it?

Example: what if your letter was advertising repair for motorcycles. Now what if you could eliminate all 70+ year olds who do not want a motorcycle repair service? Why send those letters if you already know they aren't hitting "the mark"?

It's hard work to do that, but the point stands. 3T: Triangulation, Transfer and Trust - explain why the response ratio is low.


Lastly, my personal example. There is a group in UK that does renderings. They are trying to earn my business. They did everything right. Researched my business, found a way to connect to me on LinkedIn. Went as far as getting my number. Emailed my assistant. Emailed me. Called me. Left me a voicemail and then another. Followed up with another email and a LinkedIn private message! And none of it worked. They did all of that at the time when I had no time to deal with this small sub-set of our business needs. They wasted a lot of time and effort. Even if their product is 10x better than the group I am using locally, it still didn't matter. Now they are exhausted and will probably not contact me ever again. And I don't blame them. From that point of view, your comment stands well - try to get to the conversion asap. Knowing WHY it didn't work with me: wrong time for me! That's the secret. Contact me again in December and you probably get traction.

How do you solve for that with letters? It's next to impossible. But in lawn care you can program for it better. In my business someone could have looked up my projects and their permit status to time it better etc. There is always a way to do it better. That was the only point I wanted to make.

In short (too late for that lol), I don't think we disagree. We are just debating small details.

 

[Michael Ankrah]

This is your first email? If so, I know what you're getting a lack of response... It's just not as good as you think it is.

I sent you that video so you create 5 different outreachs with the intention of capturing different types of thinkers -- but I'll say this: most business owners are High D (in the DISC profile), meaning your communication has to be short and to the point.

"What I've got, what it's going to do for you, what to do next"

Example:
======================
Subject: are the leads coming through?

Hey Bob,

I'm MRiabov and I'm a web designer focused on [insert their business] here.

I saw your page and I'm wondering... are you getting enough leads and sales from it every day?

I only ask because there are a few things your site is NOT doing that usually generate others in your industry incredible results and daily leads.

I made a mockup showing you the difference here: [insert link to a solo page showing their current site vs what they should be doing].

Would love to chat about it and you're the type of business I specialize in (and would like to partner with). Check out my portfolio below and if you think I might be "your guy" to get you more leads and sales from your website, I'd love to chat about it.

Portfolio: [insert link here]

MRiabov
Voice: +55555555
Text: +1235132516

==============================

Short, to the point, you're proving you can do the job. You're highlighting their weaknesses in a direct (but nice) way. And showing you know what you're talking about.

Not pushy, not needy, but direct.

If you were working with me, and in a perfect world, I'd have you call them the next day. "Hey Bob, this is MRiabov. I'm the web guy, did you see my email?"

... and then you'd send another email if he didn't pick up or respond

===================

SUBJECT: did you see this?

Hey Bob,

I sent you an email the other day but I didn't hear back right away. No problem, life's crazy over here, too. Here's the email again and let me know what you think about my proposal to partner up. Cheers.

I'm a web designer focused on getting leads for [insert their business] here.

I saw your page and I'm wondering... are you getting enough leads and sales from it every day?

I only ask because there are a few things your site is NOT doing that usually generate others in your industry incredible results and daily leads.

I made a mockup showing you the difference here: [insert link to a solo page showing their current site vs what they should be doing].

Would love to chat about it and you're the type of business I specialize in (and would like to partner with). Check out my portfolio below and if you think I might be "your guy" to get you more leads and sales from your website, I'd love to chat about it.

Portfolio: [insert link here]

MRiabov
Voice: +55555555
Text: +1235132516

=====================

Create 3-4 more of these. Schedule out the sequence. Find your top 100 folks you want to go after. And then just follow this process until you get 10 clients. Email 1, Call 1, Email 2, Call 2...

Focus on businesses you know you can get a good result for. Go the extra mile to take a screenshot of their current page and what it COULD look like right next to each other. Also point out 2-3 things they're missing (phone number, lead capture, FAQs, contact info, whatever)

Hope it helps.

Ok, so for the first half of this year, I was away from here learning as much as I could about web design since I was moved by what I saw from OG like Fox, so now I think I finally know enough to offer results for clients.

So my question is, I really like this outreach template here and I wanna use it, and although I do have a portfolio, it's full of mock projects(since I haven't really done it for anyone yet, so what I wanna ask is, how can I pitch to people without case studies and tell them that I can improve their conversion numbers by 30% over the next 60 days or they don't pay?

Would really love if someone to hear from someone that handle this recently take on this

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Ok, so for the first half of this year, I was away from here learning as much as I could about web design since I was moved by what I saw from OG like Fox, so now I think I finally know enough to offer results for clients.

So my question is, I really like this outreach template here and I wanna use it, and although I do have a portfolio, it's full of mock projects(since I haven't really done it for anyone yet, so what I wanna ask is, how can I pitch to people without case studies and tell them that I can improve their conversion numbers by 30% over the next 60 days or they don't pay?

Would really love if someone to hear from someone that handle this recently take on this

@Fox just did a challenge on Instagram you might want to check out

 

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[Andy Black]

I do have a portfolio ... full of mock projects

What is a mock project? Does that mean it's not for a real business?

If you're going to create a site for free then why not do it and give it to someone who'll use it and then sing your praises?

I never mocked up anything, I just found people who needed help and then helped them.

Initially I helped people for free, then I started charging very low fees, then gradually raised them as I was able to take on bigger and bigger clients.

I still help people for free, mostly friends or their kids.

Ha... reminds me of how I signed up a firm of private investigators when I was just getting started:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/xYEEhRyF1qA?si=8poGpw2zfa5K5bPM

 

[NervesOfSteel]

For Robert Collier - one of the direct mail salesmen of 20th century, a good rate of conversion was 1.5%. 2% and people started looking at his copy. 3% and they threw a party. 4% and they published it in his book.

do you know what he sold before getting published?

 

[Michael Ankrah]

@Fox just did a challenge on Instagram you might want to check out

If it's the 100K in 30 Days challenge I saw it

 

[Michael Ankrah]

What is a mock project? Does that mean it's not for a real business?

If you're going to create a site for free then why not do it and give it to someone who'll use it and then sing your praises?

I never mocked up anything, I just found people who needed help and then helped them.

Initially I helped people for free, then I started charging very low fees, then gradually raised them as I was able to take on bigger and bigger clients.

I still help people for free, mostly friends or their kids.

Ha... reminds me of how I signed up a firm of private investigators when I was just getting started:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/xYEEhRyF1qA?si=8poGpw2zfa5K5bPM

It's actually a redesign of real websites that I found running ads to it, that I know with a few changes(which I did with the redesign) it can convert more visitors, and I'm currently sending it people who it can help their business asap, but to convince them that this new redesign is better is kinda the issue now