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Early 2023 UPDATE:
We have raised our official program prices for 2023.
Which means for anyone signing up through our own official website the price is now higher.
But... we have kept a special deal available for all members of this forum.
It means you will save nearly $500 by signing up at the moment.
If you are interested - just fill out the form through this link, and I’ll send the Fastlane Deal over to you.
>>> Click here to get the Fastlane Deal <<<
-------------- End of Update -----------------
Is web design still a profitable business in 2023?
If you have been following me for a while on here or on Youtube, you probably know I first started a web design business back in 2016. If you missed it, I have a full gold thread on how it went here.
In short, things went very well; I posted about it online, others wanted some help starting their own online web design businesses, and eventually, the school (and now this program) got started.
But as far as things go, a lot has changed since 2016 – the economy is now much more unpredictable, and there is a lot of speculation as to where things might be going. Every week there is some new global event or drama, and it is easy to get discouraged.
While on the surface, it looks like there are rough times ahead, I don’t think that is the case.
I strongly feel that business, and the principles behind it, actually haven't changed one bit.
And that those who focus on the right things will only thrive in the coming years.
So if you are ready, let’s get into it …
Can web design still work in 2023, and is it a good choice?
This thread somewhat assumes you are open to the idea of starting a web design business. Maybe you have even thought about trying web design in the past, but you were not 100% sure if it was the right thing for YOU to pursue among all the different options out there.
Either way, the most common questions (and what we will cover in this thread) are:
My goal is that by the time you finish reading this thread, you can definitively say either—“Yes, web design is a good option that fits with my long-term Fastlane plans”,—or—“No, I can safely rule out web design for now.”
If you get stuck at any point, just post up your questions below this thread and I’ll personally get back to you.
On top of this, you likely want a business to tick some important boxes:
These are the common personal requirements we see people asking about when it comes to web design. They are not questions exactly but more “will it be possible to achieve this” type goals.
Let’s cover them first...
So what does it take to succeed in web design in 2023?
For the last 4+ years, I’ve been lucky enough to help a lot of people get started with web design. Through Fox Web School, this forum, and several other places, we have built a great community of people who have learned web design in a practical and profitable way.
I try not to promote too heavily on the forums, but there have been at least a few hundred members on here I have worked directly with. I also started the Fox Web School YouTube channel that has now over 26,000 subscribers, and we used to have a Facebook group with over 12,000 members.
This has allowed me to work with, teach and coach thousands of web designers. What I want to cover below are the clear trends I have noticed on why some people succeed, while others get stuck or fail over and over.
With the right approach, students have made very fast progress with zero previous experience (I'll give specific examples in just a moment).
They have sold their very first website for MORE than some web designers with 5+ yrs experience have ever made from a single project.
AND the best part is these students do an amazing job at helping their clients get REAL business results..
It is a total win-win for everyone involved.
I have seen the different approaches people follow when it comes to web design.
In short—when people follow the right approach, they do very well—with the wrong approach, it never works.
“So what are the different approaches, and why do some people succeed when others don’t?”
Let's get right into it by first looking at what NOT to do...
The 2 common approaches to web design that WON’T make you profitable (or create freedom)
Wrong Approach #1 – You focus 100% on coding and technical skills instead of becoming a well-rounded business person.
95%+ of web designers fail to reach freedom because they spend all their time developing technical skills. They think if they are experts at Javascript or WordPress they will be in high demand and profitable.
They quickly find out, though, that it just doesn’t work that way. Business owners don’t think in terms of code and design — they focus on their most important business challenges.
Can you imagine a business meeting where the owner tells his team, “We badly need to put more money into HTML and CSS this month”? That is never going to happen!
What matters most to a business owner is what keeps their business running and growing. Things like increasing sales, attracting new customers, or smooth business operations.
It is these key business areas where you need to show how you can help.
This is now twice as important in 2023. If you can’t help with creating sales, customers, or better systems, most businesses will not want to listen to you. They want big results - right now.
You must show them how you can help them in these key business areas.
To succeed, you have to present what you can offer in a way that matters to them. If they can’t see the value in what you are selling, they will put it at the bottom of the list with 1,000 other things that need to be done someday.
What gets their attention is “here is how you can get more customers”, not “I could improve your old Javascript”.
The people who do best don’t focus on selling the technical stuff - instead, they look for ways to create value and then make it appealing for a business owner to invest in. Often they actually have very little or average technical skills.
While advanced coding skills can get you a job, by themselves they won’t make you an entrepreneur. Focusing too heavily on your technical skills usually leads to you just becoming another cog in someone else’s business. With a “must keep learning more code” mindset, it is easy to become overqualified without any clear way to make money or sell yourself.
Unfortunately, many web designers never see this and keep heading in the wrong direction. And when it fails to work, they mistakenly double down on the exact skills that are already hurting them the most... “I don’t get it - I can code amazing - why can’t I find work?”. I get these types of DMs all the time - it just doesn’t work.
Also, there are so many easy ways to make a website in 2023 with very basic coding skills; anything extra on top of that can be outsourced. The truth is you don’t need to be that good technically to run a profitable web design business. The real skills that make you profitable are often not technical.
(Many old-school web designers or people who paid big money for coding degrees will disagree. BUT these same people complain they can’t get hired, and there are no good clients. Business and selling skills always come first.)
Wrong Approach #2 – You focus on building beautifully-designed, custom-coded websites.
A lot of web design gurus out there will teach people that this is where the money is — spending weeks building fancy, custom-coded websites. But this approach doesn’t work either.
First, you will end up working around the clock to make the perfect design. When you focus on selling design, you attract clients who think about how things look, rather than how well they work. You’ll have clients focused on the design of every pixel, section, and button. Many times, it means a lot of extra hours added to the project and dozens of rounds of changes.
I am sure some people on here have horror stories of these sorts of projects! Design-focused projects can be a nightmare.
Very few businesses care about design in the first place. When they don’t know what they want, they might say, “design,” but what they are really after is a solution to a deeper problem.
Your clients don’t really need elaborate custom illustrations, 3D graphics, tons of animations, and award-winning design. They don’t care much about a totally unique, fully custom website that’s nothing like a visitor has ever seen before.
What they are looking for is a real change in their business. They secretly hope the fancy new design helps them get more sales, or brings in new customers. Often when you get to the core issue, it was never really about design - it was something bigger they were after.
The cool thing is that when you identify what matters, you can get much better results with much less work. There are way more effective (and easier) ways to help create sales than spending 100 hours on photoshop making custom graphics.
Of course, this doesn’t mean that visual design is useless or bad. It’s just one of the tools we can use to build great results. Just like with technical skills - it is nice to have, but don’t let it be what you rely on to build your web business.
----
Where both of the above examples go wrong is the same - putting specific skills before an overall approach that works.
Business owners don’t go to sleep thinking of code or design. They are thinking about their actual business.
Web design gets (very) profitable when you start to think bigger than just code and design...
The main reason people succeed with web design is by shifting their mindset to what really matters.
Instead of focusing on code or design, they start to look at things from the business owners' perspective.
These web designers only focus 20% of their time on learning technical skills and design, but the other 80% on mastering how to use and market those skills.
Many are not the “best” coders or designers, but they understand how to make their skills extremely valuable in the marketplace.
They realize that running a web design business has very little to do with technical skills or your design ability.
>>> It is all about creative problem solving and adding value. <<<
To give some examples, here are a few of the skills you can quickly develop to be running a profitable web design business in a short amount of time:
1) Problem Solving
Learn to see the overall situation and develop creative solutions that make a difference. This is like the story of the expert who charged $20,000 for fixing one small part in a large factory. He wasn’t paid for the work involved - it was for knowing the right solution
2) Creating Value
This forum knows that money always flows towards value. When you learn to see web design as a tool to be used to help a business solve their problems and achieve their goals, you can quickly increase your prices by 2, 5, 10 or more times. Business owners will always pay well for websites that offer real value.
3) Master Selling
Businesses need cash flow to survive. And every business is interested in either securing their cash flow or growing it. Most likely both. So knowing how to build a website that helps with sales is a super valuable and profitable skill set. (And knowing how to sell helps you get bigger and better web design deals, too).
4) Communicating and Messaging
Along with selling, businesses also need a lot of help ensuring they have the right message that reaches the right people. You become extremely valuable when you can help create and improve their messaging. This skill requires you to identify customer needs and understand the marketplace.
5) Mindset and Self-Management
This is an easy area to work on that gives you a massive boost over the competition. Most web designers struggle with managing themselves and their business. Being able to do both means you can make rapid progress and also see gains in other areas of your life too.
6) Combining Simple Skills
Scott Adams (creator of the Dilbert comic) calls this ‘Talent Stacking’. It is about combining several skills to create massive value. When you have basic proficiency in a bunch of different areas like web design, copywriting, email marketing and so on, you start to open many very profitable opportunities for yourself.
How many of these require a degree in computer science or a certificate from a fancy design school? None.
But these are the sort of skills that put you at the top of the marketplace. They are what make you profitable and in demand. If you look at any success thread on this forum, you are going to see the people who succeeded have used a combination (or all) of these skills.
These types of skills are what you need to focus on to succeed. They will set you up for long-term success as a web designer, but also in the bigger picture as an entrepreneur.
With that in mind, let’s look at how you can get started with learning and developing these core business skills...
A realistic plan to succeed at web design in the short, medium, and long term
There are three main stages you will progress through in your web design journey. These stages also show why web design is such a great way to learn the key skills we talked about above and to prepare for your future Fastlane ventures.
***I’ve included student case studies from people on this forum to show you what to expect at each stage. If you are one of the people (or another student), then feel free to add in more details below if you wish.***
The first stage: Getting started
This is where most people are going to be when they first join the program. You will either have just started learning the basics of code or will have some coding skills but struggle with sales.
The first goal here is to change how you view web design and to focus on what matters most to a business owner. When you can see why they would buy, you can start to align what you are selling with what they want. This makes it a lot easier to sell, but it also means that what they hire you for is much more valuable for them, too. It is 100% win-win.
The second goal is to help develop the best mindset possible for business (and life). After hundreds of emails, Facebook messages, and interactions with students, I’ve noticed that mindset is one of the biggest things that holds most people back. So we put a fair amount of focus on helping you overcome mindset issues such as self-doubt, procrastination, perfectionism or poor self-management.
In around 1-3 months, our students will typically land their first $1,000 project. Getting that first win under your belt feels great and creates a ton of momentum! While this isn’t life-changing money, it’s still a great first milestone, and it helps to validate the fact that you’re building a solid foundation of skills. You’re learning how to sell, how to close deals, and how to manage a project. You’re changing the way you see business. You’re beginning to help others and be in demand.
A good example of this is Owen...
Owen joined in May of last year after seeing this thread on here. He had little in the way of coding or web design experience...
By August, he was using the sales and business skills from the program to land website and SEO deals...
And then, by November was able to hit a big personal goal and quit his job. ..
For a student who shows up and takes action with the program, these are the sort of results we would expect them to hit.
Another great student example is @Isaac Oh
Isaac started a few months back and has gone from a $500 project to a $2,500 project to just recently enjoying his first month of over $10,000. Keep in mind that he only just started to learn code when he joined, too. This isn’t about just charging massive prices either - his clients are getting massive value and huge results from his websites.
These posts above are taken from the private FB group, and we see results like this every week. As I was updating this post, this was a recent one...
Now keep in mind these are some of our top student results, but it goes to show what is possible within just a few months with minimal technical skills, just by working on the right steps in the right order, addressing your mindset and approach, and having the support to keep you on track.
Medium Term (2-3 years):
This is where you start to focus on stabilizing your income and building a solid base of clients and referrals. While we all love a big payday project, but to succeed long-term, you also want to build that reliable base of consistent cash flow.
So this stage is all about building the right relationships, helping businesses in a big way, and being seen as more of a trusted advisor than a freelancer.
The cool thing is that as you build more trust with each new client, you also get to learn a lot about how successful businesses grow and thrive. You get an inside look at how their businesses run and develop real, transferable skills. On some projects, you can get dozens of hours working directly alongside seasoned business owners.
This experience helps with a lot more than just web design. It can be very hard to get this kind of insight elsewhere, but with web design, business owners share openly with you as you work together. You get a lot of exposure to what makes a business successful, what creates sales, and what keeps customers coming back. It’s like a free mini MBA of sorts.
To give a few examples of people at this stage who started with just making websites and now have mastered several very valuable Fastlane skills…
A great example of this is @GuitarManDan. You probably have already seen his own great gold progress thread on here, but I will quickly cover his progress....
Dan started his web design business in 2018 using our previous course and had a very decent year or two. However, he wanted to take things to the next level and didn’t want to get complacent. He then joined the Fox Legends Program.
Since joining, he has made even more progress, and along with some big website sales, he has done really well with building recurring revenue too. To give just one example, he landed a $25,000 sale from a cold email technique that I shared in the course (but Dan gets all the credit for taking tons of consistent action!).
Now while the big sales are cool the great thing is Dan has built an amazing (and highly valuable) skillset that is a great foundation for moving to more Fastlane business ventures. He now has the cash flow, experience, confidence and mindset that I am sure will lead to a ton of future success.
*** Update To Dan's Story***
Since writing the above last year, Dan has experienced even more success. He has created a truly Fastlane business on top of his web design business with massive potential. It is still in the early stages of scaling it up, but I am sure he will crush it, and it is the exact goal we love people to hit with this program/approach.
Long-term (3-5 years)
I hinted at this with Dan's story, but our end goal with this approach to web design is much bigger than just making some websites. This last stage is really what separates our school from other courses.
As much as we love web design (and we do!), we always see it more of a launching pad than an end destination.
Our end goal is always for our students to use their web design experience to go on to even bigger and better things.
This is a great first goal for someone who is struggling right now, but the better goal is that once you are profitable, you start transitioning from web design to launching an even bigger and better business.
If you think about any successful Fastlane business, you are going to need a certain set of skills. You need to learn how to find unfulfilled needs in the marketplace, how to create a valuable product or service, how to sell that service, how to market and scale your business, and so on.
Once you have those skills, you’ll probably want to move on to something bigger than web design. It is a natural next stage and one we have built into the way we teach from the very beginning. We have done our job right when you get to a stage where you are ready to use what you have learned (and your cash flow from projects) to reach for that next level.
A good example of this is @MJ DeMarco himself. Now obviously, MJ isn’t a student or has taken any of my training, but if you look back at MJ’s story (before his big successes), he first started paying his bills and improving his skills through web design work...
“I aggressively marketed my website. I sent out emails. Cold-called. Mailed letters. I learned search engine optimization (SEO). Because I couldn’t afford books, I visited the Phoenix library daily and persisted to read about Internet programming languages. I improved my website, learned about graphics and copywriting. Anything that could help me, I consumed.
Then one day I had a breakthrough; I received a call from a company in Kansas who raved about my website service and wanted me to design their website. Sure. I obliged with a price of $400. They thought the price was a steal and within 24 hours, I built the company their website. I was ecstatic. In 24 hours, I had most of the rent payment. Then ironically, not 24 hours later, I received another call from a company in New York asking for the same thing… a new website. I designed theirs for $600 and it took me two days to complete. I had another rent payment! Now, I know this isn’t a lot of money, but from poverty to $1000 in three days felt like winning the fifty million dollar Powerball.
My first few months in Phoenix, I gained traction and survived on my own for the first time in my life. No flower boy. No bus boy. No pizza delivery. No sponging off mom. I was purely self-employed! I was momentous acceleration, a wind at my back that foreshadowed a directional change into a new universe of wealth generation.’
and...
“I took a contented pause thankful of my recent move and glanced at my bank balance. It was more than $5,000 and it was more money than I ever knew. Now I realize that $5K is not a lot of money, basically it is bankrupt. However at that moment in my life, it meant not having to get a job for at least another year. You see, that $5,000 bought me one year of freedom. Freedom to pursue success. Freedom to do what was necessary. Freedom to pursue my dream. For the next year, I was guaranteed to own every hour of my life.”
Links:
https://www.mjdemarco.com/my-story/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/one-year-of-flf.56628/#post-417628 (post #17)
This is a great example of starting web design in the best way possible - with a focus on using it to go much further when the time is right. And I fully agree with MJ here and think web design is NOT a great long-term option. The best web designers are always people who used web design to go on to do something much bigger! That is how you make it truly Fastlane.
But for someone on here right now without a solid business plan, who doesn’t have a ton of money in the bank to invest, and who might be struggling with core business abilities such as mindset or sales, then web design can be a perfect option to get you to where you want to be long term.
What are the key ingredients to make Web Design work for me?
The mistake I have seen over and over is people who have the best of intentions, but head completely down the wrong road. They focus on developing the wrong skills, working with the wrong type of clients, and having no idea how to increase their sales or results.
What can seem like progress at first can quickly turn into a dead end. They end up working for free or cheap for months on end, yet things are still not improving. They are no closer to big sales or any real success.
Web design is definitely not an area where hard work is necessarily going to pay off - you have to think strategically.
Where is a good place to start?
Get a good game plan. No matter how low your current skills or experience might seem, with a solid plan to follow you can make way faster progress than the other 90% of people going in circles. With a smart approach, one or two projects done the right way will add up very fast.
Along with that surround yourself with the people who are already getting good results and learn from them. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel. The people who run successful web design businesses use the same effective tactics over and over again. This is where a coach or mentor is going to be key. You might think I am biased (since I also coach) but I invested a lot in coaching and training when I first started. I still do.
On top of this it's crucial to have a solid support system to keep you motivated and focused. Working as a web designer can be disastrous if you are alone. By being a part of a group of like minded peers though you can keep yourself accountable while making a ton of personal and business progress. You got to have a strong network.
These core ingredients to web design success is why we have structured Fox Web School the way we have. We saw what was needed and transitioned from video courses and “do it alone” content to building a school that provides you with everything you need to succeed.
What Fox Web School Can Offer
Nobody needs another generic course that gets you average results. There are plenty of these, and they churn out people who will never make more than a few $100 for a website.
What you need right now is the right coaching and blueprint (along with a proper community) for creating real success. You want a proven program to develop the right skills for you in the right order - and that keeps you motivated and moving in the right direction.
That is exactly what you get when you join Fox Web School.
We focus on helping you master important business skills that make a real difference.
What I have in mind here are sales skills, persuasion, communication, business strategy, mindset, finding big needs in the marketplace, problem solving, taking huge amounts of action, and self control.
We take people who are struggling to progress, and quickly get them moving towards their goals.
In fact, since this program launched in 2019, we have already done this with 200+ members directly from this forum plus over 500 students total. We have worked hard on making a great program and community that over delivers and consistently gets results.
This program is known as the “Fox Legends Program" and it was built with a specific end goal of first getting profitable with web design and then using web design to go even bigger.
To keep this post a bit shorter we haven’t packed it full of reviews but if you look around this thread or on Trustpilot, you will find many. We are still always working hard to improve things but right now the students who are joining are seeing great results and consistent progress.
Based off what has been proven to work best so far the 2023 structure is:
a) Stage one - Get Dialled In
(This is an overview of the general stages - you can find a more detailed breakdown of the course content in the link at bottom of this thread)
Also, you get access to our amazing community...
Monthly live calls
Every month, we have group video calls where you can share your progress, ask questions, get direct feedback, and speed up your learning pace. These group calls are a great place to connect and take advantage of our super engaged and valuable community.
You will get to hear from and talk to dozens of members who are taking tons of action and sharing their results. These are students just like you who are aiming for the same goals as you, or who have already hit them. Either way, you get to see what is working for others and quickly apply it to your own situation. I personally run each one, and you can talk to me directly about whatever you wish.
*At this stage, there are 100s of success stories and sales coming directly from these calls. It is just one part of the program, but these calls alone are super valuable and enough to get you going.
Since we get asked this a lot – we record all calls and have a system in place to get your questions answered if you can’t make a call.
Membership to the private Fox Legends Program Facebook group
You’ll also get full access to our private Facebook group, where you can interact with your fellow students. You all know what a private Facebook group is, but this one is different. For a change, this one is actually very active and high value with detailed posts and daily engagement. You won’t need to wait longer than a few hours at most to get a response to your question.
I have a deal with the students – if you post about it, we will help you get it sorted.
This applies to sales, client issues, and even topics outside of business and web design. You can post up about anything and everything.
It is common to see whole sale pitches and proposals get created and then successfully closed in the Facebook group each week. If you join, and have any issues with web design, your business, motivation, mindset etc. – we are always in the group ready to help.
*If I’m being honest, this is probably my favourite part of the program. Pretty much everyone who joins is blown away by how supportive all of the members inside the Legends community are.
I know from experience just how critical it is to surround yourself with other motivated people if you want to hit your goals. And while I might be a bit biased, I truly believe our community is one of the best places to do that.
Extra Resources
If you join, you will get a lot of extra bonuses that go with this program. If you are interested, just click the link below and it will take you to a page with the full details (this thread is already huge!).
To name a few though: we got bonus courses on Google Ads and copywriting from forum members @andyblack and @Bekit, guest calls with industry experts, extra (proven!) templates and ready-to-go resources.
Inside, there is everything you really need to make massive progress in a very short amount of time.
What you need to be able to join…
Compared to a lot of other coaching programs on this level we are very reasonably priced. On one side we have set up the content and training to get you going as soon as possible. On the other side though we have built the community to be enjoyed for a long time. We give you lifetime access to both the content and the community and many members stay around for years - even long after they have used web design to build several other businesses.
So for a bargain price to join, you get both huge results in the short term and a group of people who want to see you succeed over the next few months and years.
We run a tight operation though, and do require a few things from you to make sure it makes sense to work together:
- willingness to commit and stick with a proven plan
- a few hours of time each week to learn and apply what we teach you
- some savings or cash flow to cover your cost of living as you learn the business
- you want guidance and coaching to help you take the shortcuts and avoid the long detours
But on the other hand, here are some things that you don’t need to join:
- advanced or even intermediate coding and programming skills
- prior business experience - we teach you business skills from scratch
- a ton of free time - we get that you have a life and maybe a job to support yourself before the biz takes off
- a personal website, business cards etc. - there are better ways to get started without wasting time
- living in an English-speaking country (we have students from around the world, including Europe, South America and Asia)
- a perfect mindset - it’s ok if you have some fear and doubts about these types of things. That’s what we’re here for!
We aren’t miracle workers, but if you are willing to apply yourself and have the minimal resource to make this possible, this is a realistic option to start learning web design the right way. If you are a good fit, we will do everything we can to ensure you succeed.
There’s never been a better time to join…
The Fox Legends Program of course isn’t the only way to jumpstart your web design business but we do think it is the best way:
What all of these approaches also miss is a real community who actually cares that you succeed and a system in place to make sure you stay on track. Plus a coach who actually cares if you succeed or not.
The bottom line is that joining Fox Legends Program is super reasonable for the value you get:
The Price:
*******
Early 2023 UPDATE:
We have raised our official program price to $1200 for 2023.
This means that for people who join directly through my school website etc - the price is $1200.
But... we have a special deal available for all members of this forum.
As you can see on my profile, I've been a member of this forum for close to 8 years now.
I owe a lot of my growth during that time to the guidance I received from MJ and the other members here.
So offering a deal like this is my chance to give back to the community that has contributed so much to my own success.
If you are interested - just fill out the form through this link, and I’ll send the Fastlane Deal over to you.
Also - we ask for students to leave an open Trustpilot review if possible.
Many of these students who have left reviews are people from the Fastlane forums (thanks!).
You can find 100+ detailed such reviews here: Fox Web School is rated "Excellent" with 4.9 / 5 on Trustpilot.
We have raised our official program prices for 2023.
Which means for anyone signing up through our own official website the price is now higher.
But... we have kept a special deal available for all members of this forum.
It means you will save nearly $500 by signing up at the moment.
If you are interested - just fill out the form through this link, and I’ll send the Fastlane Deal over to you.
>>> Click here to get the Fastlane Deal <<<
-------------- End of Update -----------------
Is web design still a profitable business in 2023?
If you have been following me for a while on here or on Youtube, you probably know I first started a web design business back in 2016. If you missed it, I have a full gold thread on how it went here.
In short, things went very well; I posted about it online, others wanted some help starting their own online web design businesses, and eventually, the school (and now this program) got started.
But as far as things go, a lot has changed since 2016 – the economy is now much more unpredictable, and there is a lot of speculation as to where things might be going. Every week there is some new global event or drama, and it is easy to get discouraged.
While on the surface, it looks like there are rough times ahead, I don’t think that is the case.
I strongly feel that business, and the principles behind it, actually haven't changed one bit.
And that those who focus on the right things will only thrive in the coming years.
So if you are ready, let’s get into it …
Can web design still work in 2023, and is it a good choice?
This thread somewhat assumes you are open to the idea of starting a web design business. Maybe you have even thought about trying web design in the past, but you were not 100% sure if it was the right thing for YOU to pursue among all the different options out there.
Either way, the most common questions (and what we will cover in this thread) are:
- Is web design still a good option right now?
- How hard is it to learn and make money?
- Can I learn this with no past experience?
- How much coding skills do I have to learn to sell websites?
- How fast can I sell my first project?
- Is it too late for me to compete against others doing this for years?
- Can I take this step without getting stuck in something that's NOT right for me?
My goal is that by the time you finish reading this thread, you can definitively say either—“Yes, web design is a good option that fits with my long-term Fastlane plans”,—or—“No, I can safely rule out web design for now.”
If you get stuck at any point, just post up your questions below this thread and I’ll personally get back to you.
On top of this, you likely want a business to tick some important boxes:
These are the common personal requirements we see people asking about when it comes to web design. They are not questions exactly but more “will it be possible to achieve this” type goals.
Let’s cover them first...
- You are looking for a viable business model that can actually work - no playing around
- You’re looking for a business model with very little or no downside risk
- You need to be cash-flow positive in a short amount of time. You can’t wait all year to start making money.
- You don’t have the ability to invest $10,000s to buy a business or be able to order a bunch of inventory
- You don’t want to have to go back to zero and start entirely from scratch—or even worse, try to get a job
- You don’t want to get involved with “the next big thing” that is gone a week later
- You want something easy to run with no need for staff, an office, in-person meetings or supply chains
- You prefer to build a skill set that is transferable if needed and useful in all business areas
- You want something that can be part of your bigger long-term Fastlane plan
- You need to be able to start right away using only the skills and resources you already have
So what does it take to succeed in web design in 2023?
For the last 4+ years, I’ve been lucky enough to help a lot of people get started with web design. Through Fox Web School, this forum, and several other places, we have built a great community of people who have learned web design in a practical and profitable way.
I try not to promote too heavily on the forums, but there have been at least a few hundred members on here I have worked directly with. I also started the Fox Web School YouTube channel that has now over 26,000 subscribers, and we used to have a Facebook group with over 12,000 members.
This has allowed me to work with, teach and coach thousands of web designers. What I want to cover below are the clear trends I have noticed on why some people succeed, while others get stuck or fail over and over.
With the right approach, students have made very fast progress with zero previous experience (I'll give specific examples in just a moment).
They have sold their very first website for MORE than some web designers with 5+ yrs experience have ever made from a single project.
AND the best part is these students do an amazing job at helping their clients get REAL business results..
It is a total win-win for everyone involved.
I have seen the different approaches people follow when it comes to web design.
In short—when people follow the right approach, they do very well—with the wrong approach, it never works.
“So what are the different approaches, and why do some people succeed when others don’t?”
Let's get right into it by first looking at what NOT to do...
The 2 common approaches to web design that WON’T make you profitable (or create freedom)
Wrong Approach #1 – You focus 100% on coding and technical skills instead of becoming a well-rounded business person.
95%+ of web designers fail to reach freedom because they spend all their time developing technical skills. They think if they are experts at Javascript or WordPress they will be in high demand and profitable.
They quickly find out, though, that it just doesn’t work that way. Business owners don’t think in terms of code and design — they focus on their most important business challenges.
Can you imagine a business meeting where the owner tells his team, “We badly need to put more money into HTML and CSS this month”? That is never going to happen!
What matters most to a business owner is what keeps their business running and growing. Things like increasing sales, attracting new customers, or smooth business operations.
It is these key business areas where you need to show how you can help.
This is now twice as important in 2023. If you can’t help with creating sales, customers, or better systems, most businesses will not want to listen to you. They want big results - right now.
You must show them how you can help them in these key business areas.
To succeed, you have to present what you can offer in a way that matters to them. If they can’t see the value in what you are selling, they will put it at the bottom of the list with 1,000 other things that need to be done someday.
What gets their attention is “here is how you can get more customers”, not “I could improve your old Javascript”.
The people who do best don’t focus on selling the technical stuff - instead, they look for ways to create value and then make it appealing for a business owner to invest in. Often they actually have very little or average technical skills.
While advanced coding skills can get you a job, by themselves they won’t make you an entrepreneur. Focusing too heavily on your technical skills usually leads to you just becoming another cog in someone else’s business. With a “must keep learning more code” mindset, it is easy to become overqualified without any clear way to make money or sell yourself.
Unfortunately, many web designers never see this and keep heading in the wrong direction. And when it fails to work, they mistakenly double down on the exact skills that are already hurting them the most... “I don’t get it - I can code amazing - why can’t I find work?”. I get these types of DMs all the time - it just doesn’t work.
Also, there are so many easy ways to make a website in 2023 with very basic coding skills; anything extra on top of that can be outsourced. The truth is you don’t need to be that good technically to run a profitable web design business. The real skills that make you profitable are often not technical.
(Many old-school web designers or people who paid big money for coding degrees will disagree. BUT these same people complain they can’t get hired, and there are no good clients. Business and selling skills always come first.)
Wrong Approach #2 – You focus on building beautifully-designed, custom-coded websites.
A lot of web design gurus out there will teach people that this is where the money is — spending weeks building fancy, custom-coded websites. But this approach doesn’t work either.
First, you will end up working around the clock to make the perfect design. When you focus on selling design, you attract clients who think about how things look, rather than how well they work. You’ll have clients focused on the design of every pixel, section, and button. Many times, it means a lot of extra hours added to the project and dozens of rounds of changes.
I am sure some people on here have horror stories of these sorts of projects! Design-focused projects can be a nightmare.
Very few businesses care about design in the first place. When they don’t know what they want, they might say, “design,” but what they are really after is a solution to a deeper problem.
Your clients don’t really need elaborate custom illustrations, 3D graphics, tons of animations, and award-winning design. They don’t care much about a totally unique, fully custom website that’s nothing like a visitor has ever seen before.
What they are looking for is a real change in their business. They secretly hope the fancy new design helps them get more sales, or brings in new customers. Often when you get to the core issue, it was never really about design - it was something bigger they were after.
The cool thing is that when you identify what matters, you can get much better results with much less work. There are way more effective (and easier) ways to help create sales than spending 100 hours on photoshop making custom graphics.
Of course, this doesn’t mean that visual design is useless or bad. It’s just one of the tools we can use to build great results. Just like with technical skills - it is nice to have, but don’t let it be what you rely on to build your web business.
----
Where both of the above examples go wrong is the same - putting specific skills before an overall approach that works.
Business owners don’t go to sleep thinking of code or design. They are thinking about their actual business.
Web design gets (very) profitable when you start to think bigger than just code and design...
The main reason people succeed with web design is by shifting their mindset to what really matters.
Instead of focusing on code or design, they start to look at things from the business owners' perspective.
These web designers only focus 20% of their time on learning technical skills and design, but the other 80% on mastering how to use and market those skills.
Many are not the “best” coders or designers, but they understand how to make their skills extremely valuable in the marketplace.
They realize that running a web design business has very little to do with technical skills or your design ability.
>>> It is all about creative problem solving and adding value. <<<
To give some examples, here are a few of the skills you can quickly develop to be running a profitable web design business in a short amount of time:
1) Problem Solving
Learn to see the overall situation and develop creative solutions that make a difference. This is like the story of the expert who charged $20,000 for fixing one small part in a large factory. He wasn’t paid for the work involved - it was for knowing the right solution
2) Creating Value
This forum knows that money always flows towards value. When you learn to see web design as a tool to be used to help a business solve their problems and achieve their goals, you can quickly increase your prices by 2, 5, 10 or more times. Business owners will always pay well for websites that offer real value.
3) Master Selling
Businesses need cash flow to survive. And every business is interested in either securing their cash flow or growing it. Most likely both. So knowing how to build a website that helps with sales is a super valuable and profitable skill set. (And knowing how to sell helps you get bigger and better web design deals, too).
4) Communicating and Messaging
Along with selling, businesses also need a lot of help ensuring they have the right message that reaches the right people. You become extremely valuable when you can help create and improve their messaging. This skill requires you to identify customer needs and understand the marketplace.
5) Mindset and Self-Management
This is an easy area to work on that gives you a massive boost over the competition. Most web designers struggle with managing themselves and their business. Being able to do both means you can make rapid progress and also see gains in other areas of your life too.
6) Combining Simple Skills
Scott Adams (creator of the Dilbert comic) calls this ‘Talent Stacking’. It is about combining several skills to create massive value. When you have basic proficiency in a bunch of different areas like web design, copywriting, email marketing and so on, you start to open many very profitable opportunities for yourself.
How many of these require a degree in computer science or a certificate from a fancy design school? None.
But these are the sort of skills that put you at the top of the marketplace. They are what make you profitable and in demand. If you look at any success thread on this forum, you are going to see the people who succeeded have used a combination (or all) of these skills.
These types of skills are what you need to focus on to succeed. They will set you up for long-term success as a web designer, but also in the bigger picture as an entrepreneur.
With that in mind, let’s look at how you can get started with learning and developing these core business skills...
A realistic plan to succeed at web design in the short, medium, and long term
There are three main stages you will progress through in your web design journey. These stages also show why web design is such a great way to learn the key skills we talked about above and to prepare for your future Fastlane ventures.
***I’ve included student case studies from people on this forum to show you what to expect at each stage. If you are one of the people (or another student), then feel free to add in more details below if you wish.***
The first stage: Getting started
This is where most people are going to be when they first join the program. You will either have just started learning the basics of code or will have some coding skills but struggle with sales.
The first goal here is to change how you view web design and to focus on what matters most to a business owner. When you can see why they would buy, you can start to align what you are selling with what they want. This makes it a lot easier to sell, but it also means that what they hire you for is much more valuable for them, too. It is 100% win-win.
The second goal is to help develop the best mindset possible for business (and life). After hundreds of emails, Facebook messages, and interactions with students, I’ve noticed that mindset is one of the biggest things that holds most people back. So we put a fair amount of focus on helping you overcome mindset issues such as self-doubt, procrastination, perfectionism or poor self-management.
In around 1-3 months, our students will typically land their first $1,000 project. Getting that first win under your belt feels great and creates a ton of momentum! While this isn’t life-changing money, it’s still a great first milestone, and it helps to validate the fact that you’re building a solid foundation of skills. You’re learning how to sell, how to close deals, and how to manage a project. You’re changing the way you see business. You’re beginning to help others and be in demand.
A good example of this is Owen...
Owen joined in May of last year after seeing this thread on here. He had little in the way of coding or web design experience...
By August, he was using the sales and business skills from the program to land website and SEO deals...
And then, by November was able to hit a big personal goal and quit his job. ..
For a student who shows up and takes action with the program, these are the sort of results we would expect them to hit.
Another great student example is @Isaac Oh
Isaac started a few months back and has gone from a $500 project to a $2,500 project to just recently enjoying his first month of over $10,000. Keep in mind that he only just started to learn code when he joined, too. This isn’t about just charging massive prices either - his clients are getting massive value and huge results from his websites.
These posts above are taken from the private FB group, and we see results like this every week. As I was updating this post, this was a recent one...
Now keep in mind these are some of our top student results, but it goes to show what is possible within just a few months with minimal technical skills, just by working on the right steps in the right order, addressing your mindset and approach, and having the support to keep you on track.
Medium Term (2-3 years):
This is where you start to focus on stabilizing your income and building a solid base of clients and referrals. While we all love a big payday project, but to succeed long-term, you also want to build that reliable base of consistent cash flow.
So this stage is all about building the right relationships, helping businesses in a big way, and being seen as more of a trusted advisor than a freelancer.
The cool thing is that as you build more trust with each new client, you also get to learn a lot about how successful businesses grow and thrive. You get an inside look at how their businesses run and develop real, transferable skills. On some projects, you can get dozens of hours working directly alongside seasoned business owners.
This experience helps with a lot more than just web design. It can be very hard to get this kind of insight elsewhere, but with web design, business owners share openly with you as you work together. You get a lot of exposure to what makes a business successful, what creates sales, and what keeps customers coming back. It’s like a free mini MBA of sorts.
To give a few examples of people at this stage who started with just making websites and now have mastered several very valuable Fastlane skills…
A great example of this is @GuitarManDan. You probably have already seen his own great gold progress thread on here, but I will quickly cover his progress....
Dan started his web design business in 2018 using our previous course and had a very decent year or two. However, he wanted to take things to the next level and didn’t want to get complacent. He then joined the Fox Legends Program.
Since joining, he has made even more progress, and along with some big website sales, he has done really well with building recurring revenue too. To give just one example, he landed a $25,000 sale from a cold email technique that I shared in the course (but Dan gets all the credit for taking tons of consistent action!).
Now while the big sales are cool the great thing is Dan has built an amazing (and highly valuable) skillset that is a great foundation for moving to more Fastlane business ventures. He now has the cash flow, experience, confidence and mindset that I am sure will lead to a ton of future success.
*** Update To Dan's Story***
Since writing the above last year, Dan has experienced even more success. He has created a truly Fastlane business on top of his web design business with massive potential. It is still in the early stages of scaling it up, but I am sure he will crush it, and it is the exact goal we love people to hit with this program/approach.
Long-term (3-5 years)
I hinted at this with Dan's story, but our end goal with this approach to web design is much bigger than just making some websites. This last stage is really what separates our school from other courses.
As much as we love web design (and we do!), we always see it more of a launching pad than an end destination.
Our end goal is always for our students to use their web design experience to go on to even bigger and better things.
This is a great first goal for someone who is struggling right now, but the better goal is that once you are profitable, you start transitioning from web design to launching an even bigger and better business.
If you think about any successful Fastlane business, you are going to need a certain set of skills. You need to learn how to find unfulfilled needs in the marketplace, how to create a valuable product or service, how to sell that service, how to market and scale your business, and so on.
Once you have those skills, you’ll probably want to move on to something bigger than web design. It is a natural next stage and one we have built into the way we teach from the very beginning. We have done our job right when you get to a stage where you are ready to use what you have learned (and your cash flow from projects) to reach for that next level.
A good example of this is @MJ DeMarco himself. Now obviously, MJ isn’t a student or has taken any of my training, but if you look back at MJ’s story (before his big successes), he first started paying his bills and improving his skills through web design work...
“I aggressively marketed my website. I sent out emails. Cold-called. Mailed letters. I learned search engine optimization (SEO). Because I couldn’t afford books, I visited the Phoenix library daily and persisted to read about Internet programming languages. I improved my website, learned about graphics and copywriting. Anything that could help me, I consumed.
Then one day I had a breakthrough; I received a call from a company in Kansas who raved about my website service and wanted me to design their website. Sure. I obliged with a price of $400. They thought the price was a steal and within 24 hours, I built the company their website. I was ecstatic. In 24 hours, I had most of the rent payment. Then ironically, not 24 hours later, I received another call from a company in New York asking for the same thing… a new website. I designed theirs for $600 and it took me two days to complete. I had another rent payment! Now, I know this isn’t a lot of money, but from poverty to $1000 in three days felt like winning the fifty million dollar Powerball.
My first few months in Phoenix, I gained traction and survived on my own for the first time in my life. No flower boy. No bus boy. No pizza delivery. No sponging off mom. I was purely self-employed! I was momentous acceleration, a wind at my back that foreshadowed a directional change into a new universe of wealth generation.’
and...
“I took a contented pause thankful of my recent move and glanced at my bank balance. It was more than $5,000 and it was more money than I ever knew. Now I realize that $5K is not a lot of money, basically it is bankrupt. However at that moment in my life, it meant not having to get a job for at least another year. You see, that $5,000 bought me one year of freedom. Freedom to pursue success. Freedom to do what was necessary. Freedom to pursue my dream. For the next year, I was guaranteed to own every hour of my life.”
Links:
https://www.mjdemarco.com/my-story/
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/one-year-of-flf.56628/#post-417628 (post #17)
This is a great example of starting web design in the best way possible - with a focus on using it to go much further when the time is right. And I fully agree with MJ here and think web design is NOT a great long-term option. The best web designers are always people who used web design to go on to do something much bigger! That is how you make it truly Fastlane.
But for someone on here right now without a solid business plan, who doesn’t have a ton of money in the bank to invest, and who might be struggling with core business abilities such as mindset or sales, then web design can be a perfect option to get you to where you want to be long term.
What are the key ingredients to make Web Design work for me?
The mistake I have seen over and over is people who have the best of intentions, but head completely down the wrong road. They focus on developing the wrong skills, working with the wrong type of clients, and having no idea how to increase their sales or results.
What can seem like progress at first can quickly turn into a dead end. They end up working for free or cheap for months on end, yet things are still not improving. They are no closer to big sales or any real success.
Web design is definitely not an area where hard work is necessarily going to pay off - you have to think strategically.
Where is a good place to start?
Get a good game plan. No matter how low your current skills or experience might seem, with a solid plan to follow you can make way faster progress than the other 90% of people going in circles. With a smart approach, one or two projects done the right way will add up very fast.
Along with that surround yourself with the people who are already getting good results and learn from them. You don’t need to reinvent the wheel. The people who run successful web design businesses use the same effective tactics over and over again. This is where a coach or mentor is going to be key. You might think I am biased (since I also coach) but I invested a lot in coaching and training when I first started. I still do.
On top of this it's crucial to have a solid support system to keep you motivated and focused. Working as a web designer can be disastrous if you are alone. By being a part of a group of like minded peers though you can keep yourself accountable while making a ton of personal and business progress. You got to have a strong network.
These core ingredients to web design success is why we have structured Fox Web School the way we have. We saw what was needed and transitioned from video courses and “do it alone” content to building a school that provides you with everything you need to succeed.
What Fox Web School Can Offer
Nobody needs another generic course that gets you average results. There are plenty of these, and they churn out people who will never make more than a few $100 for a website.
What you need right now is the right coaching and blueprint (along with a proper community) for creating real success. You want a proven program to develop the right skills for you in the right order - and that keeps you motivated and moving in the right direction.
That is exactly what you get when you join Fox Web School.
We focus on helping you master important business skills that make a real difference.
What I have in mind here are sales skills, persuasion, communication, business strategy, mindset, finding big needs in the marketplace, problem solving, taking huge amounts of action, and self control.
We take people who are struggling to progress, and quickly get them moving towards their goals.
In fact, since this program launched in 2019, we have already done this with 200+ members directly from this forum plus over 500 students total. We have worked hard on making a great program and community that over delivers and consistently gets results.
This program is known as the “Fox Legends Program" and it was built with a specific end goal of first getting profitable with web design and then using web design to go even bigger.
To keep this post a bit shorter we haven’t packed it full of reviews but if you look around this thread or on Trustpilot, you will find many. We are still always working hard to improve things but right now the students who are joining are seeing great results and consistent progress.
Based off what has been proven to work best so far the 2023 structure is:
a) Stage one - Get Dialled In
- How to quickly develop the mindset of a successful entrepreneur
- Why people will buy websites from you (at a high price)
- How to quickly learn the business of web design and use it to start any online business
- How to control your own internal mindset and actions
- This section of the course will show you how to go from zero to charging $10,000 plus for web design projects. We will cover all you need to know and how to do this with zero previous skills.
- You’ll also master selling, prospecting, copywriting, proposals, communication and how to spot and solve large business problems. These are the core skills you need in any business.
- You’ll also learn the bigger skills needed to grow and guide a business like goal setting, strategy, planning, thinking big, and creating a vision you and your team can buy into.
- In this final section, you’ll be ready to use your combined web experience, skills, and cash flow to start creating your own Fastlane business on top of web design.
- We will give you the tools to start finding ideas, know how to add value, how to start a new business around strong market needs, and how to get your first customers rolling in.
- The goal of this stage is to help get you ready to create a truly “Fastlane” type business that you can transition into from web design. Web design is great and a fantastic place to start but we will make sure to see you the whole way through to even bigger business success.
(This is an overview of the general stages - you can find a more detailed breakdown of the course content in the link at bottom of this thread)
Also, you get access to our amazing community...
Monthly live calls
Every month, we have group video calls where you can share your progress, ask questions, get direct feedback, and speed up your learning pace. These group calls are a great place to connect and take advantage of our super engaged and valuable community.
You will get to hear from and talk to dozens of members who are taking tons of action and sharing their results. These are students just like you who are aiming for the same goals as you, or who have already hit them. Either way, you get to see what is working for others and quickly apply it to your own situation. I personally run each one, and you can talk to me directly about whatever you wish.
*At this stage, there are 100s of success stories and sales coming directly from these calls. It is just one part of the program, but these calls alone are super valuable and enough to get you going.
Since we get asked this a lot – we record all calls and have a system in place to get your questions answered if you can’t make a call.
Membership to the private Fox Legends Program Facebook group
You’ll also get full access to our private Facebook group, where you can interact with your fellow students. You all know what a private Facebook group is, but this one is different. For a change, this one is actually very active and high value with detailed posts and daily engagement. You won’t need to wait longer than a few hours at most to get a response to your question.
I have a deal with the students – if you post about it, we will help you get it sorted.
This applies to sales, client issues, and even topics outside of business and web design. You can post up about anything and everything.
It is common to see whole sale pitches and proposals get created and then successfully closed in the Facebook group each week. If you join, and have any issues with web design, your business, motivation, mindset etc. – we are always in the group ready to help.
*If I’m being honest, this is probably my favourite part of the program. Pretty much everyone who joins is blown away by how supportive all of the members inside the Legends community are.
I know from experience just how critical it is to surround yourself with other motivated people if you want to hit your goals. And while I might be a bit biased, I truly believe our community is one of the best places to do that.
Extra Resources
If you join, you will get a lot of extra bonuses that go with this program. If you are interested, just click the link below and it will take you to a page with the full details (this thread is already huge!).
To name a few though: we got bonus courses on Google Ads and copywriting from forum members @andyblack and @Bekit, guest calls with industry experts, extra (proven!) templates and ready-to-go resources.
Inside, there is everything you really need to make massive progress in a very short amount of time.
What you need to be able to join…
Compared to a lot of other coaching programs on this level we are very reasonably priced. On one side we have set up the content and training to get you going as soon as possible. On the other side though we have built the community to be enjoyed for a long time. We give you lifetime access to both the content and the community and many members stay around for years - even long after they have used web design to build several other businesses.
So for a bargain price to join, you get both huge results in the short term and a group of people who want to see you succeed over the next few months and years.
We run a tight operation though, and do require a few things from you to make sure it makes sense to work together:
- willingness to commit and stick with a proven plan - a few hours of time each week to learn and apply what we teach you - some savings or cash flow to cover your cost of living as you learn the business - you want guidance and coaching to help you take the shortcuts and avoid the long detoursBut on the other hand, here are some things that you don’t need to join:
- advanced or even intermediate coding and programming skills - prior business experience - we teach you business skills from scratch - a ton of free time - we get that you have a life and maybe a job to support yourself before the biz takes off - a personal website, business cards etc. - there are better ways to get started without wasting time - living in an English-speaking country (we have students from around the world, including Europe, South America and Asia) - a perfect mindset - it’s ok if you have some fear and doubts about these types of things. That’s what we’re here for!We aren’t miracle workers, but if you are willing to apply yourself and have the minimal resource to make this possible, this is a realistic option to start learning web design the right way. If you are a good fit, we will do everything we can to ensure you succeed.
There’s never been a better time to join…
The Fox Legends Program of course isn’t the only way to jumpstart your web design business but we do think it is the best way:
- You could lose $200k and 4+ years of your life getting a degree in computer science or graphic design—only to be stuck working a job for someone else.
- You could go through a coding boot camp ($10-25k) and get a foundational knowledge of how to build websites—only to still be stuck working for someone else at the end of the program.
- You could take dozens of cheaper courses and programs that focus on coding and design. You end up skilled in one area but without a clear, consistent way to make money.
- You could try “google” your own way. We get many students joining after doing this for months and years. They often get badly stuck and have to spend even more time unlearning bad approaches and “work for cheap” mindsets.
The bottom line is that joining Fox Legends Program is super reasonable for the value you get:
The Price:
*******
Early 2023 UPDATE:
We have raised our official program price to $1200 for 2023.
This means that for people who join directly through my school website etc - the price is $1200.
But... we have a special deal available for all members of this forum.
As you can see on my profile, I've been a member of this forum for close to 8 years now.
I owe a lot of my growth during that time to the guidance I received from MJ and the other members here.
So offering a deal like this is my chance to give back to the community that has contributed so much to my own success.
If you are interested - just fill out the form through this link, and I’ll send the Fastlane Deal over to you.
Also - we ask for students to leave an open Trustpilot review if possible.
Many of these students who have left reviews are people from the Fastlane forums (thanks!).
You can find 100+ detailed such reviews here: Fox Web School is rated "Excellent" with 4.9 / 5 on Trustpilot.
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