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YOMANU

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Me and a friend will be doing website building together. How can we make the concept that Fox explains, work with 2 people?

We can build sites separately, but maybe there will be some friction because the one makes more money for the company than the other (we already have a venture together).

A possible solution would be that we split every project: one makes the websites himselves and the other does the copywriting. However, I'm doubting about this. Workload is not equal for example and our ideas about the site may be contradictory. Maybe it's better for one to do the whole thing himselve.

Any advice anyone?
 

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Siddhartha

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Webdev against the odds of the market and even some threads on this forum that say otherwise is impressive. Has this been scaling well for you, or have you moved on to greener pastures since it's been about 3 years?

EDIT: This thread brought it out in me to jump back into webdev; I'm almost fully re-acquainted with my old html5/css skills after 4 days and already have a project to re-do a website with a local organization.
Hoping this continues to pay out in dividends as I keep putting time in; and cheers.
 
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GradyS

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To those that are asking if he's still pursuing this, a quick look at his YouTube channel (in his signature) shows a video posted last month titled "Building a Website for a Small Business"

Sounds like it's still going to me, and this is absolutely what I'm focusing on for 2019. My wife has a successful design business but ends up outsourcing a good deal of her website design to others. Basically giving up 40-50% of the profit of the job to the web developer. I'd like to help her grow that part of her business, while also focusing on local service companies that have terrible websites.

Thank you @Fox for all of this awesome info.
 

DaDream

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I've had clients complain they aren't getting enough leads... till we put a tracked number in place and show them they weren't even picking up 50% of calls.

I've sent enquiries to potential clients via their contact forms, to find the forms don't actually work.

I've designed landing pages to have the CEO's wife not like the colour.

I've had a client praise their call centre staff on their Lead-To-Sale-Rate, who therefore didn't log an Enquiry as a Lead unless they thought they could convert it into a sale (and thus make my metrics look bad).

I just shake-my-head a lot now...
What service do you use to track call metrics and such? First time I come across the concept.
 

Andy Black

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What service do you use to track call metrics and such? First time I come across the concept.
You can use Google Forwarding numbers, and there’s solutions like Callrail too.

Knowing a call was generated by your efforts is only half the battle though. What if they’re all tire-kickers and none are buying? Ideally the business tells you how well the calls are converting into sales, and if you’re generating good quality customers.
 
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Fox

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My bad for not keeping this thread up to date.

I am working on a 12k euro project right now, another project for a friends biz, and also a medical type project with two senior members on here.

I basically have been overwhelmed with students and interest on this - I got over 400 private students right now and around 10k in the free group I run. It is a lot of people and I just don't have time to respond to everyone, unfortunately.

I love the forums but I took a little break from posting about web design on here. I come here to kinda get away from it at the moment haha!

Right now I am looking at ways to cut back the 80% and focus on the 20% that will make the most impact.

If you are looking to get into web design as a good service business it is still possible to really well. The game has changed a little since I started this thread (or I have changed) and it is very much about systems and sales at the moment.

Ill post when I can, thank everyone.
 

DaDream

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So this is a topic that gets talked about a lot in my web design group. I go for "big kills" and make around 10-20k a month doing so. If I want to take a month off (I do next month) then I have no commitments or obligations. If I want to make double I work twice as hard.

"Assuming you charge $3,000 per client and have a 1% conversion rate"

My conversion rate is something like 30 - 50% with a warm lead, 80% with a referral. $3,000 is the smallest site I have done this year, it is usually much higher. I don't do much/any cold calls anymore - I have guys for that and they are very happy making 30%. I know how to do them but I like to outsource that part and focus on where I work best - closing sales and design. This year so far I have maybe made 20 sales calls - It is usually only an hour or two per week.

I won't be going "Fastlane" with strict web design (for other people) - it is a way to stack a lot of capital, learn some business skills and launch my own businesses. Last year I made several million in sales for the companies I worked with, I will be putting those skills to work for myself.

I could easily do it the other way but it is not aligned with my goals. I don't even charge for hosting mostly cause I don't want the hassle. I leave money on the table so I can enjoy time off and don't have to have a phone with me 24/7. In the next month I will be in 5 difference countries traveling and meeting family and friends - this is more important to me then an extra few dollars.

When you are starting off you don't need to focus on scaling, you need to focus on learning. Learn how to add value and solve problems. When these skill sets are solid then you can switch up your business and scale. @MJ DeMarco didn't try scale web design - he paid the bills, learned some skills and then put those to use in another area to add massive value. If he had tried from day one to be scaling I doubt it would have worked out so well.

I am thinking ten years down the line - for now I don't want to scale.
So much value in this answer. Scaling too quick. Too fast. Without all the right skills results in failure most of the time.
 

DaDream

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Hello,

Thanks for all the info in this thread. I have done the Udemy course, and learnt about SEO and CRO. Problem is, what I read the most is for products / SaaS (making the copy about the customer, showing the benefits..). I have some compagnies in my country that I can target (manufacturing compagnies) but I would not really know how to proceed with copy for industrial compagnies.

For example, if I take this theme : Manufactory: Multi-Industrial HTML Template Preview - ThemeForest

I saw your drawing about the flow process, but how do you edit these themes to include more CTA, or redesign the flow ? Again, the problem with most of these compagnies is that they show their services, which are sort of always the same ones from a company to another. Do you ask them for competitive advantage, USP, that you use in your headline ?

This is where I'm having difficulties. Most of my examples and experience come from online tech product, which is totally different.

Thanks
Learned something new. "Compagnies"
upload_2019-5-21_15-26-54.png
 

DaDream

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Do you guys do Google Adwords or SEO?

If you guys do SEO, how do you build your links?
I made two websites for my clients and refunded both. I couldn't get the results on time. These domains were new and didn't have any sites on them.
But I still want to help market their services anyway.

How can I do that?
My brother. I don't know if someone else already responded this for you. The answer to your question is to PROVIDE VALUE to someone with an AUDIENCE that likes/wants/buys the products your client sells. Look into influencer marketing. Find bloggers in the industry. You want backlinks. Provide value and you will get them. The easiest form of value is to provide free products or money to those influencers in exchange for featuring the website of your clients in their blogs, youtube videos or Instagram posts if you want to go that route. Influencer marketing is one of the cheapest and most effective ways to market anything provided you do it right.

PS: Google doesn't like when people buy links. So there is a method to buying backlins which are beneficial to your clients. All links are not the same. Research a little bit. Educate yourself. Put some of the budget you earn from your clients to build a few high quality backlinks for them and you will get much better results. True backlinking is about good relationships. Building friendships with people in a parallel or similar industry with REPUTABLE websites/digital assets which do not directly compete BUT are RELATED. Those are the links you want for your clients. In the end it all comes down to business. You can try doing everything by yourself and burn yourself out (like I did once). Or you can add value to other people and get good backlinks to build a better reputation for the website you are working on.
 
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Twice weakly

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Its taking away from the clients value by spending so much time coding from scratch when there are many solid base templates to work off. My websites are definitely not cookie cutter but I do like to build upon clean code and then customize from there.


Must reads for this thread:

Breaking the Time Barrier: How to Unlock Your True Earning Potential

How to think about your work, the value you add and price your jobs accordingly.


GOLD! - Lex DeVille's: How to Make $1,000 a Week with no Degree, no Feedback, & no Portfolio.

@SinisterLex


GOLD! - The "Astonishing Secrets" Thread

@IceCreamKid
I hear the recommendation of breaking the time barrier by Quickbooks so many times on podcasts but this time I've finally downloaded it. It's well worth the read.
 
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Champion

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Hey Fox, big thanks for posting this thread, its a great gift!

When you approached these "bigger" companies at first, where you incorporated? In Germany you need a minimum of 25k to incorporate a GmbH (which will give me the respect I need to approach larger companies).

There is also a possibility to start a UG which is also limited liability, however, you can already start that from 1 Euro and the image is not great if you know what I mean...

Would be great to hear your opinion on this.

Best,
Champion
 

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Fox

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Hey Fox, big thanks for posting this thread, its a great gift!

When you approached these "bigger" companies at first, where you incorporated? In Germany you need a minimum of 25k to incorporate a GmbH (which will give me the respect I need to approach larger companies).

There is also a possibility to start a UG which is also limited liability, however, you can already start that from 1 Euro and the image is not great if you know what I mean...

Would be great to hear your opinion on this.

Best,
Champion
No.

To be honest I did a lot of cash work since I was living in Colombia and over time went more legit. I’m not recommending that - just what I did.

You are fine to operate as a solo freelancer when you start (whatever that is in your tax terms). You don’t need fancy business names or such for a long time. Just do the basic tax set up for a solo operator.
 

Mr992

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Hey Fox, big thanks for posting this thread, its a great gift!

When you approached these "bigger" companies at first, where you incorporated? In Germany you need a minimum of 25k to incorporate a GmbH (which will give me the respect I need to approach larger companies).

There is also a possibility to start a UG which is also limited liability, however, you can already start that from 1 Euro and the image is not great if you know what I mean...

Would be great to hear your opinion on this.

Best,
Champion

I believe you can also open a mini GmbH in Germany. Which costs like 1 Euro. Which is exactly for small businesses.

Then, when your business grows and you have 25k, you can change your company to a normal GmbH.

And anyway this is up to you to figure out. Spend some time researching business in your country and how other entrepreneurs are set up these days.
 

Champion

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I believe you can also open a mini GmbH in Germany. Which costs like 1 Euro. Which is exactly for small businesses.

Then, when your business grows and you have 25k, you can change your company to a normal GmbH.

And anyway this is up to you to figure out. Spend some time researching business in your country and how other entrepreneurs are set up these days.
Hey Mr992, thanks for the reply.

I know UG is possible, thats what im founding right now. The problem with larger companies (GmbH's) is that usually they will not take UG's very seriously and HERE's WHY:

1. As an UG, by definition, everyone knows that u have less than 25k in your bank account.

2. As an UG, you have limited liability, to the same extent as a llc or GmbH.

My experience with the UG so far, is that people take you even less seriously and make your life more difficult then we you start a sole proprietorship. Why? Because if you are a sole proprietor, then at least if you are not able to pay ur bills, they have the ability to go after your house, car or whatever else (unlimited liability). For a UG, they know you only have 25k (maximum) and incase you are not able to pay, you are protected by limited liability, which makes lots of more established businesses shy away from doing businesses with a UG.

In reality for me so far: only hassle I have had was that the bank I wanted to open an account with did not allow me to do so for the UG (although they did for my sole proprietorship business lol).

Anyways, im opening my bank account with another bank next week Friday and the fee's will be a bit higher, nothing too bad. Atleast I have the privilege of enjoying limited liability, which was very important to me, since my ventures are online business.

Dam... this text got a bit longer than I had hoped for, but incase any german readers take a look at this, it might be useful to them :)

Best,
Champion
 

Mr992

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Hey Mr992, thanks for the reply.

I know UG is possible, thats what im founding right now. The problem with larger companies (GmbH's) is that usually they will not take UG's very seriously and HERE's WHY:

1. As an UG, by definition, everyone knows that u have less than 25k in your bank account.

2. As an UG, you have limited liability, to the same extent as a llc or GmbH.

My experience with the UG so far, is that people take you even less seriously and make your life more difficult then we you start a sole proprietorship. Why? Because if you are a sole proprietor, then at least if you are not able to pay ur bills, they have the ability to go after your house, car or whatever else (unlimited liability). For a UG, they know you only have 25k (maximum) and incase you are not able to pay, you are protected by limited liability, which makes lots of more established businesses shy away from doing businesses with a UG.

In reality for me so far: only hassle I have had was that the bank I wanted to open an account with did not allow me to do so for the UG (although they did for my sole proprietorship business lol).

Anyways, im opening my bank account with another bank next week Friday and the fee's will be a bit higher, nothing too bad. Atleast I have the privilege of enjoying limited liability, which was very important to me, since my ventures are online business.

Dam... this text got a bit longer than I had hoped for, but incase any german readers take a look at this, it might be useful to them :)

Best,
Champion

I think you are thinking too much about what could go wrong. Don't focus too much on that. Focus on what could go right. Be realistic, not negative.

As far as I know, Germany is really bureaucratic. In the US or the UK, everyone starts a business with only a few hundred $$$ (actually in the UK you only pay like £10 for a Limited company).

But this really shouldn't matter to you. Yes, there are businesses that will not take you seriously because you are not a normal GmbH, but there are still plenty of businesses that will do business with you. So just get the more hassle-free company formation you can and then focus on bringing in new clients/customers. If you do that, you'll have your GmbH in no time.

Don't let bureaucracy ever stop you. Get a good accountant (Steuerberater?) and let him sort out the bureaucracy stuff while you can focus on bringing in $$$. Can't afford one? Just bring in clients/customers, nobody cares who you are as long as you bring them value.
 

Chapas

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Wow. The insane amount of value in this thread. Thank you @Fox and the rest of you who have contributed. I have taken SO many notes and learned so much.

I actually didnt plan to spend my weekend reading, but so happy I did that now. When I finished reading Sunday evening, I quickly sat down and tried to implement this in my plan. After 10 minutes I just said f^^^ it. No need to overplan. Better just to take the golden nuggets from here and take action immediately.

One of the golden nuggets from this thread was someone mentioning finding accountants as clients as they have a lot of business connections. That makes sense. Business owners use accountaints. They trust their accountants more than they trust their wives.

So I actually managed to find one account company with 8 employees who were ranked 2nd or 3rd for "accountant + their city". Not a big city, nevertheless, when you have 8 employees you have some kind of business going on. Their website was non-responsive and quite boring. They also had an error so it was redirected to some therapist when you wrote the domain without www.

I used a script someone posted about cold emails for web design in here and twisted it with my own feel (had great success with cold email before). Composed the email in like 30 minutes. Sent it out in the train on my way to the slowlane job next morning. 2 hours into my slowlane day I finally got a REALLY LONG reply and they agreed for me to do their website. I will do it for free though, but they even mentioned themselves that they would recommend me to their clients and keep using me if they liked the job. Their ideas are quite similar to mine and they want a static website, and do not want to update it at all. They like simplicity and only have like 3 or 4 pages so it couldnt be better.

I have started a small Facebook Ads agency where I have recently lost my first 2 clients, and I believe that expanding into creating simple, but powerful websites could grow my Facebook Ads business as well.

So it is actually not that difficult. Bring value and people will want to work with you.

Now to a little advice. I have onced 3-4 years ago completed the course on CodeAcademy and almost do not remember any HTML/CSS anymore. Wordpress and Elementor I have build my own site it. Would you recommend me to just make their website with Wordpress and Elementor, or take some extra time to get the basics of HTML and CSS. I have most of the weekend free. Do you think it is possible to learn the basics in order to create a website from an HTML template? Just asking in case if it takes 3-4 weeks to learn the basics, then I would probably pursue the Wordpress/Elementor path with this client.

YOU GUYS ARE THE F^^^^^^ BEST!
 

Mr992

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Nov 29, 2016
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Wow. The insane amount of value in this thread. Thank you @Fox and the rest of you who have contributed. I have taken SO many notes and learned so much.

I actually didnt plan to spend my weekend reading, but so happy I did that now. When I finished reading Sunday evening, I quickly sat down and tried to implement this in my plan. After 10 minutes I just said f^^^ it. No need to overplan. Better just to take the golden nuggets from here and take action immediately.

One of the golden nuggets from this thread was someone mentioning finding accountants as clients as they have a lot of business connections. That makes sense. Business owners use accountaints. They trust their accountants more than they trust their wives.

So I actually managed to find one account company with 8 employees who were ranked 2nd or 3rd for "accountant + their city". Not a big city, nevertheless, when you have 8 employees you have some kind of business going on. Their website was non-responsive and quite boring. They also had an error so it was redirected to some therapist when you wrote the domain without www.

I used a script someone posted about cold emails for web design in here and twisted it with my own feel (had great success with cold email before). Composed the email in like 30 minutes. Sent it out in the train on my way to the slowlane job next morning. 2 hours into my slowlane day I finally got a REALLY LONG reply and they agreed for me to do their website. I will do it for free though, but they even mentioned themselves that they would recommend me to their clients and keep using me if they liked the job. Their ideas are quite similar to mine and they want a static website, and do not want to update it at all. They like simplicity and only have like 3 or 4 pages so it couldnt be better.

I have started a small Facebook Ads agency where I have recently lost my first 2 clients, and I believe that expanding into creating simple, but powerful websites could grow my Facebook Ads business as well.

So it is actually not that difficult. Bring value and people will want to work with you.

Now to a little advice. I have onced 3-4 years ago completed the course on CodeAcademy and almost do not remember any HTML/CSS anymore. Wordpress and Elementor I have build my own site it. Would you recommend me to just make their website with Wordpress and Elementor, or take some extra time to get the basics of HTML and CSS. I have most of the weekend free. Do you think it is possible to learn the basics in order to create a website from an HTML template? Just asking in case if it takes 3-4 weeks to learn the basics, then I would probably pursue the Wordpress/Elementor path with this client.

YOU GUYS ARE THE F^^^^^^ BEST!
This is great, keep it up!

Instead of overthinking and overreading, you used a few golden nuggets and taken action, which is all what entrepreneurship is about. Great work.

The only thing you could have done better is getting paid for the website, I don't like doing work for free, but if it's your first client, good for you.

And for the tech behind a website, you should use whatever you feel most comfortable with. HTML, CSS & JS without any Wordpress would be better, from a tech point of view, because Wordpress is a bloatware (but it does work). If you can code, use pure HTML, CSS & JS. If not, use Wordpress. It's up to you. But knowing how to code (even small websites) it's a great skill to have.

Ultimately the client doesn't care what tech you used or how you built it, as long as it gives them what they want (more sales).
 

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