Older brother just tried to recruit me into a pyramid scheme LOL

[MHP368]

So a little background, my older brother has a lot of health issues (started with a genetic thing and kind of spiralled), he had to drop out of his PHD program (got a amsters0 and now lives with my parents (he's in his mid 30's, definitely not the dream life)

So he gets me on the phone a few days ago and tells me he has a gig as a "financial advisor" but he needed to come run his shpiel by me and the wife as part of the training, ok? , I mean thats a little odd but not red flag territory, plus he was vague. I was just psyched he had a real job lined up (he's been job hutning for years, his masters is in a STEM field btw not underwater basket weaving)

So it turns out its selling insurance through the "PHP Agency", his recruiter guy came as well (he didn't mention this) and the whole time I was like "oh ok, insurance sales, thats fine thats still a job and you can do pretty ok if you can hustle" but then at the end (guy still sitting their) my brother turns to me and says he needs a "business partner" ,I was like..."do you need me to loan you money for the insurance sales tests? or..." , some back and forth questions (me asking about the commision structure etc) , well it turns out if you get three "down line" guys (a term I through out that made the recruiter sort of uncomfortable, yeh buddy, I've been hit up by herbalife before!) they increase your commission on new sales.

anyway, I made the guy uncomfortable, my brother was totally oblivious even as he left my house and I just now finally got around to telling my brother his job offer is BS.

These MLM guys keep finding a new angle though, my word.

The last one was a few years back, nurse I worked with got involved with a travel package MLM.

Anyway I told my brother if he wanted a job doing this to contact Edward Jones.

Anyone have any good MLM / Pyramid Scheme stories to share?

 

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[FMJJ]

So a little background, my older brother has a lot of health issues (started with a genetic thing and kind of spiralled), he had to drop out of his PHD program (got a amsters0 and now lives with my parents (he's in his mid 30's, definitely not the dream life)

So he gets me on the phone a few days ago and tells me he has a gig as a "financial advisor" but he needed to come run his shpiel by me and the wife as part of the training, ok? , I mean thats a little odd but not red flag territory, plus he was vague. I was just psyched he had a real job lined up (he's been job hutning for years, his masters is in a STEM field btw not underwater basket weaving)

So it turns out its selling insurance through the "PHP Agency", his recruiter guy came as well (he didn't mention this) and the whole time I was like "oh ok, insurance sales, thats fine thats still a job and you can do pretty ok if you can hustle" but then at the end (guy still sitting their) my brother turns to me and says he needs a "business partner" ,I was like..."do you need me to loan you money for the insurance sales tests? or..." , some back and forth questions (me asking about the commision structure etc) , well it turns out if you get three "down line" guys (a term I through out that made the recruiter sort of uncomfortable, yeh buddy, I've been hit up by herbalife before!) they increase your commission on new sales.

anyway, I made the guy uncomfortable, my brother was totally oblivious even as he left my house and I just now finally got around to telling my brother his job offer is BS.

These MLM guys keep finding a new angle though, my word.

The last one was a few years back, nurse I worked with got involved with a travel package MLM.

Anyway I told my brother if he wanted a job doing this to contact Edward Jones.

Anyone have any good MLM / Pyramid Scheme stories to share?

PHP Agency is run by Pat Bet David. He has a pretty popular YouTube channel based on entrepreneurship, Valuetainment. It seems like a good channel that has some good advice. I wonder why he'd run a shady company. I recall seeing bad reviews on his company when I did a quick Google search. Haven't looked too much into it though.

 

[MattR82]

I just saw a cousin of mine post a video on facebook today of him with some slimy dude inviting people to their free no strings attached bla bla session.

Guy grew up in a very wealthy family who paid for a couple degrees from an extremely expensive university and set him up in their property development company where he made a lot of money. Now he's in mlm... fitness shake stuff.

I've never EVER seen one of these sales pitches sound good. I just cannot figure out how people get drawn in. It's mind boggling.

An actual quote was "90% of the work is just showing up!" Gtfoh. I'd love to call him out but would cause some family problems. This guy is a shark though, preying on uneducated people, 100%

 

[Roli]

he needed to come run his shpiel

Love learning new Yiddish words! Thanks

his masters is in a STEM field btw not underwater basket weaving)

#CoffeSpittingMoment

These MLM guys keep finding a new angle though, my word.

As long as the desire to get rich quick is there, we will have MLM.

Guy grew up in a very wealthy family who paid for a couple degrees from an extremely expensive university and set him up in their property development company where he made a lot of money. Now he's in mlm... fitness shake stuff.

Weird, either it didn't work out for him or he's addicted to the concept of "easy" money.

 

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[Sadik]

I feel sorry for your brother. Maybe you should gift him TMF , if you haven't already.

 

[MattR82]

Weird, either it didn't work out for him or he's addicted to the concept of "easy" money.

It is weird. Maybe he hadn't made as much as I thought, but he also seems to really enjoy being in front of the camera and on stage so that may also have something to do with it.

 

[MHP368]

Maybe you should gift him TMF , if you haven't already.

Yeh actually thats what I did (that and "unfuck yourself" and "the ultimate jim rohn library" on audible), the latter two because if he's going to try a sales thing with no actual leads being fed to him he's gonna need to get a new mindset and fast and TMF , well, when I said "the only one whos making real money with this is the guy who founded the company" his eyes glazed over.

 

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[Rabby]

Poor guy

Well if he already has his license, insurance can be a good business to be in, either as a job seeker or an entrepreneur. Just, in my opinion, the P&C side is better because the commissions recur every year (or 6 months) at renewal. Start an independent agency and actually execute well, and there's no question you can get rich in insurance.

But... structured as MLM, it's sure to waste time, alienate friends, cost your family a bunch of money on shitty policies they buy out of charity, and I would be shocked if the contracts weren't the worst coverage that can legally be sold in the state... assuming they are legally sold.

 

[Disciple96]

PHP Agency is run by Pat Bet David. He has a pretty popular YouTube channel based on entrepreneurship, Valuetainment. It seems like a good channel that has some good advice. I wonder why he'd run a shady company. I recall seeing bad reviews on his company when I did a quick Google search. Haven't looked too much into it though.

I knew I'd heard of PHP agency somewhere.

As far as MLMs go, it's probably not that bad... With that said, it's still an MLM. Great fastlane for Mr. Bet-David, for your brother... Probably not so much. With that said, I might look into it more for your brother's sake, OP.

 

[Rabby]

Ok, MLM story time.

I started an entrepreneurship meetup group a few years ago. Usually I would get 5-6 people, and we would do talks on technique, strategy, finance, or some topic of interest. Half the time it was me talking to people who were trying to get started, which was fine. I remember one of the regular attendees had shared the Nobel Prize in physics for <some invention I don't understand>. That was cool.

Well one day 12+ people show up. Wow, word's getting out right? Nope, turns out 6 of them are all from, of course, an MLM insurance company. They can sell you a policy that only covers a heart attack, or one that pays you a whole $1,000 if you're hospitalized and quadriplegic on a Thursday during the full moon (or whatever). But even better, they can offer you an opportunity.

These guys were going around to any meetups related to entrepreneurship so they could "spread the word" about their amazing opportunity. Read: try to hijack the meetup. You could have your OWN business as part of their downline, by building a downline of downlines, with absolutely terrible insurance products, and there was no end to the money you could make down the downline of downlines! Wow!

I was polite and got them to tell me roughly how much they were making (one of them was a "manager" with the others in his downline). For all the hype, they were not making much. Part of the pitch was "one local producer is making over $70,000!" They were making less. With the same time and effort, and less annoyance, they could have been making more than that selling almost any real product on commission in a non-MLM company.

 

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[Red]

I got recruited into one around 2000, I think it was Quixtar? It was rebranded Amway I think? Learned that lesson with a quickness.

Now I tell friends that if they're still doing it a year from now, then I'll sign up. It shuts them up & I have a way out of the conversation/room. I have never been taken up on that in almost 20 years.

 

[Charnell]

Oh boy, I've had 2 great encounters.

The first was right after I got out of the Marines. My best friend was involved with some supplement MLM (Evolve?) and was calling me up continuously about it. Not interested ever.

A few weeks after getting out, I was pretty much living with him before I went to college. One night after the gym he calls me up telling me about a little get-together a friend of his was having. Cool, I'm interested in that.

I get to these pretty nice apartments and the get together was in one of the conference rooms in the apartment. He's there with a few people from the gym and some people I don't know.

It was not a get-together. It was a cult meeting. They tried to recruit me and I told them it seemed like a cult meeting and I gtfo of there. Told him if he ever did that to me again I'd beat him up.

***

The second was during my internship required for graduation. The company had an end of the summer golf tournament for customers, and I sat with a few random customers. One of them and I started talking about the internship and what I was doing after I graduated. He gave me his card to talk about a job after graduation and we talked about meeting up for coffee.

About an hour before we were set to meet, I had a gut feeling this was going to be an MLM pitch. It sure was. This dickhead was out there preying on college students to join his MLM. He tried to hit me with some Robert Kyosaki so I hit him with the MJ DeMarco.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

The MLM pitch is always funny... until you realize they snagged someone close to you and now they're the one pitching.

My thoughts are with your brother.

 

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[Tourmaline]

PHP Agency is run by Pat Bet David. He has a pretty popular YouTube channel based on entrepreneurship, Valuetainment. It seems like a good channel that has some good advice. I wonder why he'd run a shady company. I recall seeing bad reviews on his company when I did a quick Google search. Haven't looked too much into it though.

Oh wow, I didn't realize that it's his.

Smart guy!

So the new MLMs are all about a good product and then having a downline pyramid type model.

It's not quite a standard pyramid scheme since the product itself is usually legit. But you don't want to work for one at all.

Everyone just copies Amway's business model.

 

[Vairavan]

until you realize they snagged someone close to you and now they're the one pitching.

It's like the zombies. The victim becomes a predator.

 

[Andy Black]

I feel I’m missing out. Is there no-one pitching MLMs in Ireland or the UK?

 

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[Charnell]

I feel I’m missing out. Is there no-one pitching MLMs in Ireland or the UK?

It sounds like an OPPORTUNITY to me!

 

[Fastlane Liam]

I KNEW IT!

I always suspicious of Patrick Bet Davids company

The seminars and way his staff interacted with him like he was a god. I always thought his company had a massive MLM/cult vibe about it

 

[ShamanKing]

Worlds Financial Group.

 

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[G-Man]

I got hit up with one for FOREX trading a couple weeks ago.

I tried to steer my friend toward considering that day trading FOREX is something banks use rocket scientists and AI to do, and if these guys have such a foolproof system, why would they share it.... then he called is recruiter or whatever you call it.

Eff.

 

[MattR82]

I feel I’m missing out. Is there no-one pitching MLMs in Ireland or the UK?

You're in luck Andy! We do it all through zoom conference calls now. Check out this screenshot of 20 smiling faces on our zoom conference. Go team!

 

[Andy Black]

You're in luck Andy! We do it all through zoom conference calls now. Check out this screenshot of 20 smiling faces on our zoom conference. Go team!

Oh, actually, I’ve seen that. And there’s the Facebook groups showing you how to create profitable Facebook groups. The top guys know their stuff alright. It’s just that you then get friended by loads of business coaches promoting their Facebook groups. (Exit Andy stage left.)

 

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[Kevin88660]

So a little background, my older brother has a lot of health issues (started with a genetic thing and kind of spiralled), he had to drop out of his PHD program (got a amsters0 and now lives with my parents (he's in his mid 30's, definitely not the dream life)

So he gets me on the phone a few days ago and tells me he has a gig as a "financial advisor" but he needed to come run his shpiel by me and the wife as part of the training, ok? , I mean thats a little odd but not red flag territory, plus he was vague. I was just psyched he had a real job lined up (he's been job hutning for years, his masters is in a STEM field btw not underwater basket weaving)

So it turns out its selling insurance through the "PHP Agency", his recruiter guy came as well (he didn't mention this) and the whole time I was like "oh ok, insurance sales, thats fine thats still a job and you can do pretty ok if you can hustle" but then at the end (guy still sitting their) my brother turns to me and says he needs a "business partner" ,I was like..."do you need me to loan you money for the insurance sales tests? or..." , some back and forth questions (me asking about the commision structure etc) , well it turns out if you get three "down line" guys (a term I through out that made the recruiter sort of uncomfortable, yeh buddy, I've been hit up by herbalife before!) they increase your commission on new sales.

anyway, I made the guy uncomfortable, my brother was totally oblivious even as he left my house and I just now finally got around to telling my brother his job offer is BS.

These MLM guys keep finding a new angle though, my word.

The last one was a few years back, nurse I worked with got involved with a travel package MLM.

Anyway I told my brother if he wanted a job doing this to contact Edward Jones.

Anyone have any good MLM / Pyramid Scheme stories to share?

Finance is a heavily regulated industry. I don’t think you
have many layers of unlimited downlines.

In Singapore we have one managing directors with managers below him/her. The managers will have salespeople below him or her. That’s the maximum level of “pyramid” allowed.

The sales advisory process is heavily regulated as well with compulsory need analysis, financial situation fact find and anti-money laundering procedures... The guy with your brother is probably his trainer who is supposed to go through a few session of mandatory “joint fieldwork” as required.

 

[GeoffP]

So a little background, my older brother has a lot of health issues (started with a genetic thing and kind of spiralled), he had to drop out of his PHD program (got a amsters0 and now lives with my parents (he's in his mid 30's, definitely not the dream life)

So he gets me on the phone a few days ago and tells me he has a gig as a "financial advisor" but he needed to come run his shpiel by me and the wife as part of the training, ok? , I mean thats a little odd but not red flag territory, plus he was vague. I was just psyched he had a real job lined up (he's been job hutning for years, his masters is in a STEM field btw not underwater basket weaving)

So it turns out its selling insurance through the "PHP Agency", his recruiter guy came as well (he didn't mention this) and the whole time I was like "oh ok, insurance sales, thats fine thats still a job and you can do pretty ok if you can hustle" but then at the end (guy still sitting their) my brother turns to me and says he needs a "business partner" ,I was like..."do you need me to loan you money for the insurance sales tests? or..." , some back and forth questions (me asking about the commision structure etc) , well it turns out if you get three "down line" guys (a term I through out that made the recruiter sort of uncomfortable, yeh buddy, I've been hit up by herbalife before!) they increase your commission on new sales.

anyway, I made the guy uncomfortable, my brother was totally oblivious even as he left my house and I just now finally got around to telling my brother his job offer is BS.

These MLM guys keep finding a new angle though, my word.

The last one was a few years back, nurse I worked with got involved with a travel package MLM.

Anyway I told my brother if he wanted a job doing this to contact Edward Jones.

Anyone have any good MLM / Pyramid Scheme stories to share?

I'm familiar with PHP. Basically, its an offshoot of WFG which is itself an offshoot of Primerica. Patrick Bet David was a WFG guy who realized he could make more money by starting his own MLM because then he'd be at the top of the pyramid, rather than middle management. PHP in some areas is scarier than WFG because they had Grant Cardone and his minions train people.

 

[COSenior]

These MLM guys keep finding a new angle though, my word.

Anyone have any good MLM / Pyramid Scheme stories to share?

A) There is a difference between a pyramid scheme and an MLM. One is illegal; the other is a legitimate business model that requires a thick skin and a self-development mindset.
B)Insurance and financial services sold on the MLM business model is not new. Primerica was doing it at least 20 years ago, and I'm not sure Primerica's predecessor, A.M. Best, wasn't doing it before that.

Here's my MLM story from Primerica. It was the first time I'd ever heard 'Buy term and invest the difference'. Good idea, if you can do it, but not everyone can. Nevertheless, I went out and got my insurance license and when it was done, presented myself at the office one evening. My recruiter handed me a stack of the old track-fed, green and white striped computer printouts that was at least six inches high, and said, "Call everyone on this list and tell them they've been recommended as a Vice-President in our company and set them up for an interview." Naturally, I was skeptical. I asked, "Who should I say recommended them?" He snapped at me. "Just say what I said and don't go off-script." Chastened, I went in the other room and attempted to do as he said. After the first five or so people either hung up on me or asked me the question I had asked and I couldn't answer, I went back. "They're asking me who recommended them." "Just don't answer. Ask them again when they can come in for an interview." I tried it for another half-hour, and not surprisingly, didn't set one appointment. I gave him back the stack, resigned, and never went back.

Your brother has some learning to do before he'll be successful, but if his recruiter is any good, he'll train him about how to say things, without resorting to underhanded tricks. Today's MLM is a different animal from the late 90s and early 2000s. You may not want to participate, but please don't shoot your brother down. He's trying.

Now about those health issues of his... put him in touch with me.

 

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[Bekit]

Massive loss of respect for Patrick Bet David. I was subscribed to his youtube channel a while back and thought he had a lot of good content. There was always a sneaking suspicion in the back of my mind, though, that it would be brutal to work under him.

My MLM story
I was in a Wendy's in 2013 with a friend I'll call Jez. Jez turned out to be a pathological liar and a sociopath, but I was gullible and under her charm and didn't see it at the time.

I had already formed my own conclusions about MLM's after watching my mom work for Arbonne for 5 years. I was pretty indignant at the setup.

"HOW convenient!" I thought. This company gets to make money off the backs of clueless people who are not businesses savvy. They dangle enormous promises in front of them to get them on board. Work from home! Be your own boss! Schedule your own hours! Build your own team! Win that Mercedes! And all the while, they don't have to pay anybody's salary. They don't have to offer benefits. They get all these people working for $2/hour (or free, or negative wages). And in exchange, they've got a salesperson out there, singing the praises of this product and alienating all their friends. Sweet deal for the MLM owner. Not for anybody else.

So we're there at the Wendy's and I walk from my table to get some napkins or ketchup or something. This creepy older dude makes eye contact with me and compliments me on what I was wearing.

Right away, I have my guard up. I don't appreciate strangers making comments on my physical appearance.

Then he comes over to our table and starts to try to strike up a conversation with me. I don't know it's an MLM yet. So far it's just a creepy dude hitting on me.

I'm giving him non-answers and unfriendly hints to give up, but Jez encourages him. "Sit down!" she says with a big, friendly smile. "I like you. What are you up to?"

I'm cringing inside now. Why are we inviting this guy to our table for a conversation???? I mean, looking back, I know now that Jez was NOT my friend. Maybe she got a kick out of destroying people. Maybe she wanted to see if this would invite some kind of damage to my life.

Thus encouraged, slimy dude launches into his MLM pitch.

It's all aimed at me, not Jez.

Where did I work? How much did I make? How much did I want to make? It's clear that I'm different. I'm not your average person. I would do really well in this. He could just see from looking at me that I was an ambitious go-getter. This is a perfect fit for me. etc. etc. etc.

It's terrible sometimes to have a kind heart. Gets me into difficult situations.

So instead of being harsh and rude to the guy and sending him packing, I'm feeling trapped into being nice to him.

NICE! To this creeper who has the audacity to flirt with me in a Wendy's and then PITCH HIS MLM TO ME!!!!

I asked him a few questions. The answers showed me that it was just as cult-like and distasteful as any MLM.

So I was out.

He weaseled and weaseled to get my number from me. I said I would take his number and get back to him.

He gave me his card.

Somehow we got away from him.

#shudder

#shakeshead

#somepeople

 

[Kid]

I've never EVER seen one of these sales pitches sound good. I just cannot figure out how people get drawn in. It's mind boggling.

My take on equation would be = "stupidity + greed = MLM!"

Edit: Sometimes the first ingredient might be naivety...

 

[MHP368]

the other is a legitimate business model that requires a thick skin and a self-development mindset.

I disagree, if it has the word "downline" its a scam, if your product or service can stand on its own feet in the market you wouldn't need "distributors" and every customer to be a salesmen recruiting other salesmen.

Is the insurance product my brother sells bad? probably not, herbalife makes great protein powder, still no valid reason it requires a downline sales structure except the fact that the people who thought it up realized they could line their pockets.

 

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[becks22]

Another way to spot it's a SCAM and MLM is if you have to pay for your supplies. A pharma rep doesn't pay for their medical samples in order to sell them; A legitimate sales position won't require you to pay for your product samples, conferences, etc. MLMs you have to pay for all of that.

 

[tabulaRasa]

I wonder if anyone's ever argued that selling candybars for their little league team or school preps kids to get duped by BeachBody later?