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GOLD Learning to Program is STUPID! (or SMART?!)

Discussion in 'Business Models, Niches, Industries' started by healthstatus, Jul 14, 2012.

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  1. LiveEntrepreneur
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    LiveEntrepreneur Contributor

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    I think you didn't understand my comment, what I was trying to say was that it seemed like to me that marketing/sales seems more valuable to spend my time on. But somethings changed actually, I decided to give it another try, I have an idea I am going to work on. About me having a shortcut mentality, it's hard to say I have a hard time been honest with my self. I did say no above but I could be wrong and could still be looking for shortcuts. But luckily things are starting to get better.
     
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  2. workinprogress
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    workinprogress Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    How big or quality of a portfolio did have to build up in order to be impressive enough to land a job using it, sans degree? How long did it take to build up that portfolio? What kind of position did you get with your portfolio?

    Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk
     
  3. • nikita •
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    • nikita • Contributor

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    Just a portfolio with a nice UI and about 6 of my projects. These were projects I did from the front end course on Free Code Camp. I highly recommend FFC because it guides you through making that portfolio and projects. Took me about 4 months but I had no job as it was straight out of HS. I got a junior web developer job. I was a massive beginner, but enough to get a job.

    I highly recommend this learning path if you want the fast track to a web dev job: p1xt-guides/job-ready.md at master · P1xt/p1xt-guides · GitHub
    This one is longer and more comprehensive, takes you from junior to senior: p1xt-guides/cs-wd.md at master · P1xt/p1xt-guides · GitHub

    Protip: If you're good at design, you're much more likely to land a job as a beginner because you can mask your poor programming skills with good design.
    Also, having an active Github is a major plus to employers.

    I love this field because anyone can get a good job starting from nothing. My childhood was a disaster, kept changing and dropping out of schools, got mediocre results, and never went to university. I'm young af. But somehow they took me. Almost too good to be true.
     
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  4. Brander
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    Brander Bronze Contributor

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    If you can't afford in-house coders and an overseer/tester dealing with online freelancers is a losing game. They don't care about doing a great job because you're just one deal to them not a livelihood. You either put in the time or money, your choice.
     
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  5. • nikita •
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    • nikita • Contributor

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    This is my worry. I want to automate one day, but I can't trust Upwork freelancers. Even if they're good, everyone has a different style and your work will end up looking inconsistent, which is bad for a brand.
     
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  6. A1roller
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    A1roller Contributor FASTLANE INSIDER

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    Great to read about someone from the UK about programming as I have considered learning to program to get a better slowlane job and put myself into a position where I am problem-solving and learning skills that work the entrepreneurial muscles. Just a few questions if you would be so kind as to humor me -
    Did you go from complete beginner to getting a job in 4 months?
    How good is the salary on the job you managed to get? (hope this one isn't too personal, but the reason I ask is I work in an unskilled customer service job at the moment and a lot of web devs posting on reddit seem to earn less than me)
    How easy was it for you to get a job, and do you think living in London was a big help in securing employment?
    How much do you feel that coding is helping you in terms of entrepreneurship?

    The last question might be a difficult answer, but my hope in learning to code is that I can gain an understanding for example of how data can be manipulated through programming to bring a valuable product to market via an opportunity which may not be obvious without having learned to code. Do you think coding will open doors like this or has opened doors like this for you personally? Or do you think that ideas for digital apps/services are just as easy to come up with without any prior coding knowledge?
     
  7. • nikita •
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    • nikita • Contributor

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    Hey there!

    1) Yes, I went from complete beginner to job-ready (though by job-ready I mean very junior level). I started with not even knowing basic HTML.
    2) The salary for web devs is awesome for a slowlane job. It's almost too good to be true, considering you don't need an education to get a job. I skipped university, and that was a major plus for me. My first junior job I started on £20k, and my second £28k. I was told your salary as a dev rises by £5k a year. Again, pretty good for a slowlane job.
    3) First time very easy. I just finished Free Code Camp and decided to go for it despite barely having any skills. You have to apply to every job, even if it has crazy requirements like 10 years experience or some shit. Watch this video on it:
    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3kQyqMFpQ

    I went on angel.co and filled in my profile completely, personalised it and shit. People literally scout you. I got called in for a job rather than applying.
    Second time it was much tougher because my first experience was a shitstorm and I wanted more than just a startup with crazy commutes. I applied to a bunch of remote jobs and got one. They're not based in London, so I don't think me being in London helped. Though yes, living in a large city definitely helps.
    4) Absolutely. Want to design an app? Learning the programming language is easier. Want to set up ecomm stores? Editing the theme will be simple. Want to start up a web design agency? Well, obviously coding is a big part.

    Though I think the best part is that even if I start a business and it fails, there are so many programming jobs out there that I won't have to worry about finding a job again.
     
  8. mathnkrayon
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    mathnkrayon Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    The truth is it doesn't really matter what will you choose. Programing copywriting or whatever it may be. As long as your execution is perfect then, success is inevitable. The only limiting factor is TIME.

    Time will differentiate the two.
     
  9. Aaron T
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    Aaron T Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Without programming I would be nothing today. It is a skill that if the worst thing happened to me and I lost everything in life, I could still do and earn a really damn good income to bootstrap anything I want to do and super fast.

    No offense to all the people that refuse to put the time in to learn, but I can turn around a project at a very high rate and easily make 15k in a week or 2 for specific projects (hint flat rate bid mobile app jobs in a pinch if you know you can do it and don't let on how long it takes to do it.)

    Is it a waste of time to learn to program? Nope. Is it something everyone can do? Clearly not. Everyone should learn a thing or two about it.

    But if you put in the time to learn to do it well enough to get junior level jobs, then you can learn to bootstrap about anything you need to do if you lose everything else in life. I do a lot of Sales and Marketing, specially online marketing, and I can't say that I have been able to repeat the sheer dollar amount as fast, but that would be my second skill in terms of hard skills. Along with that is ability to write ad copy/copy write type work. Lastly an entrepreneur sense of what to do.

    One thing I do love is having an idea, quickly creating it the online site for it. Being able to identify and know what I am going to do to push. Just enough design until I can afford a real artist to get me past bootstrap. Get marketing pieces all done. All on my own. Of all the parts in the beginning the development/programming would be the most expensive. Just knowing enough to get a site up and doing the things you want to do with it (not just a wordpress site) is even worth the effort.

    Final word: It is hard, it is a fastlane skill. It isn't for everyone. It is also my opinion. It is also the one thing that I can honestly say is how I have made my life, "retired" early.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017 at 12:57 PM
  10. Obiwan
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    Obiwan New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    Hi CryptO, fromyour name are you anything to do with Cryptocurrency? I'm looking for coders in Cryptocurrency. Know anyone in this forum?
     
  11. lowtek
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    lowtek Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    If you aren't a phd level programmer with a brilliant mind and some equally brilliant friends with a vision or sitting on top of millions in liquid capital, there is little point in chasing that dragon. The execution on such a project .... is astronomically challenging.

    Not trying to piss on your parade, but I gotta be real. This isn't some app on the app store ...
     
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  12. Obiwan
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    Obiwan New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    Thank you for your opinion, but you did not answer my question. And therein lies the anomaly, by not answering the question you did answer my question.

    However, for your information, I do have a Masters Degree in Computer Science, Numerical Analysis/ScientificComputation, but I know my limitations. I have been doing this since 1966, 6/6/1966 to be precise, and therein lies the rub, I'm not as young as I used to be and therefore not as sharp. But I do have a very good understanding of the nature of the beast.

    As for brilliant friends, that I do not have, not in this field anyway, and that is why I put the question on The Fast Lane Forum. I could go to India and find some of the most brilliant young developers on the planet. However, I have been warned by people whom I respect, that six months later someone else would be offering my unique development to the world. So, in debating the problem with myself I was reminded of the speech by Shakespeare's Henry V, "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers"; and immediately thought of all the like-minded "band of brothers" on the forum. Sadly, my "band of brothers" optimism has been dashed, and I must look elsewhere.

    As far as the "...millions in liquid capital..." I am presenting this concept in conjunction with a few other features to a bank in South Africa, is we get the go ahead, money is the least of the problems.

    Also, your superlative "astronomically challenging", no, nowhere near it. Challenging yes! Astronomically, no! AI, that's astronomically challenging.
     
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  13. lowtek
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    lowtek Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    My apologies. I didn't know your background, and we get some folks here with ideas that are less than connected with reality.

    Old school CS is good enough, and having some investment backers is even better.

    You may want to check out the thread on web 3.0 / ethereum and ping the OP - perhaps he knows someone.
     
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  14. Aaron T
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    Aaron T Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Excited to see another old school developer on here!

    You certainly have the background to see this thing through so that is awesome. You don't need to understand all aspects as you are well aware but enough to know when the people you are working with are diverting from the goals, the code is bad (do your code reviews), and enough to get the requirements set to keep it moving.

    I hope you find what you are looking for. While blockchain work is not astronomically difficult, it is a harder problem. I have some experience with it (not an expert!) and testing some ideas for another investment I am looking into. There is so much potential and it is a bit wide open right now, however it pays to get it right up front. If you need an older curmudgeon, developers ear for anything, please PM me. I would love to help in any way possible and may have some value for you.
     
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  15. Obiwan
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    Obiwan New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    Thank you. I will take your advice and check out ethereum.
     
  16. Obiwan
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    Obiwan New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    Thank you for your offer of help, I may just take you up on that in the future. The problem with us old farts is that coding really is a young persons game. It's not that I don't know what to do, it's that I have to think about it. In my early twenties, when I tackled a problem, I didn't have to debate with myself, I just knew what I had to do. True, I made a few mistakes, but nothing major. It's like talking, one does not have to think of the words that you are going to use, you just talk.

    Today, I look at the bigger picture. I know what I want, layout the requirements and let the young blood do the coding. I was hoping I might find some "Young Blood" on this forum.

    From my research I think I agree with "lowtek" I would like to piggy back on the ethereum blockchain, but there are some specific requirements of the target audience that I do need to be incorporated. As "lowtek" suggested, maybe the OP can advice.
     
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  17. Aaron T
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    Aaron T Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    There is some truth to that, but in a lot of ways I haven't grown up. Certainly love my toys :). Anyway I code almost on a daily basis. I enjoy it. It is thing I do. It is almost like meditation for me. The harder the problem, the more I enjoy it. Then there are periods where I just go away for a while and don't tough the laptop, write much code, full of grid and travel. Also love that.
     
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