The Entrepreneur Forum | Startups | Entrepreneurship | Starting a Business | Motivation | Success

HOT TOPIC Can you add too much value?

OP
OP
L

LittleWolfie

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Jun 28, 2018
695
381
147
Holbeach Hurn
Whoa whoa whoa dude.. yea you're completely missing the concept. Have you read the books?
Yup, see badges and post. Good video. Notes

Note, he never gives the tuna to the cat, just has the plate. Showing you have value (or something the other party desires) is totally different to adding value. The question becomes what do the people (with money) want? What showcases my value?

I have heard people talking about adding value all the time, it is called a barter club. In the exchange we both add value to the other party, no money is exchanged.

Selling $100 bills for $50 is a good way of adding value, nobody runs a business literally doing that though even though it adds value. If you think it works that way, are you selling $100 bills for $50? When you do I will believe, you talk is cheap, money talks. Or are you only doing transactions that add value to you too.

Book is a good example you add value to people who add value to you with money (he could have given it away for free)

This value equation is basic economics of an economy and money, weird he says he isn't talking about it. Perhaps unaware but he is doing precisely that.

What have I created?


2 hard disk laptop (product, I have tried to sell)

EXECUTION - Stock Trading software attempt (another product)

WEB SCHOOL - Working out how to add (almost 3 million ) in an afternoon. (attempt to showcase skills, needs work)

Also my software for finding bugs in the requirements stage . (Savings of $1400 to $9900 per bug) (1)

It is about convincing people you can add value.

No one appears to see value in me saving them $1400, growing their stock portfolio or increasing their SAAS revenue.

I could create things to improve productivity all day, unless I can convince the right people of the value. No one will exchange. A consumer is hardly going to care about saving on bug cost. A startup cares, and offers me valueless equity. Or I could make videos (plenty of youtubers creating those videos,people see enough value to subscribe and make positive comments, never enough to part with money.

Perhaps I'm wrong and none of those add any value or perhaps I'm casting pearls before swine. What is your biggest problem and how much would you pay for a solution?

Talk is cheap.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Last edited:

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
1,947
3,349
772
Islands of Calleja
Yup, see badges and post.
Well there's no badges for the books on your profile. But anyway, watch the video.. I feel like that will clarify a lot.
 

Brewmacker

Bronze Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Jun 17, 2019
91
104
121
35
The Netherlands
There is a great book on it. It was mentioned in another thread (probably many times).

It's "Give and Take" by Adam Grant.

In a nutshell you should approach people and give value upfront without expectation to get something back. Then you can continue if you see the person/client is interested. You should probably feel it (I know it's vague, but it is common sense and experience). I don't think you could translate it to hours etc...

The author in the book says it should be at the third time (when you 'give' something for free), when you should stop 'giving' if you don't get anything back from this relationship. And this is the way the most successful 'givers' operate.

So give them one hour and see. You need to sacrifice more than that to prepare for a particular client anyway. He is also investing this hour to talk to a complete stranger to see if he can benefit. But don't do too much free work for one person. Usually they tend not to appreciate it or just don't know how to benefit from it anyway. When somebody is ready to open his wallet it means he is mentally prepared to take it seriously (sorry for vagueness but it applies to many areas).
Woowhoo! A new book! Time to spend a new audible credit!!!

Really cant believe it, I hit a road block yesterday when thinking how to formulate this exchange of giving and receiving on paper whilst writing copy for my business and moved on (usually I crack these riddles standing over the toilet at a random moment in time). Brilliant! Thanks!
 

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
8,331
35,206
4,306
Ireland
I am unable to work out how you demonstrated value to @Late Bloomer to the point that they would pay you straight away, rather than looking for free work.
Do you know what makes someone referrable?
  1. They have manners. They say please and thank you.
  2. They turn up on time.
  3. They do what they said they'd do, or at least let you know what's happening.
  4. They're competent.
If you're excellent at 4) it won't make up for being cr@p at 1-3.

It's the same for hiring someone.


Soo... does @Late Bloomer think I'm competent enough at Google Ads?
What if he's read one or more of these threads?

What about 1-3?
  • Do I appear to have manners? Would I be someone pleasant to work with?
  • Would I turn up on time?
  • Would I do what I said I'd do, or communicate what's happening if things aren't going to plan?

If @Late Bloomer answers Yes to these as well, then he'll consider working with me.

Why would he not need a free trial? Because he's already seen all the free stuff I've done because he's come across it in his travels in the forum. That was the free, try-before-you-buy already.
 

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
8,331
35,206
4,306
Ireland
So give them one hour and see. You need to sacrifice more than that to prepare for a particular client anyway. He is also investing this hour to talk to a complete stranger to see if he can benefit.
This is a very good point. People forget that while you're giving an hour of your time for free to talk to someone, they're also giving an hour of their time to you for free. It's why people find it hard to just get someone on a quick call - they don't realise that to even get on that call the recipient of your free hour needs to believe it’s worth *their* hour.
 

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
8,331
35,206
4,306
Ireland
I like helping people. If anything I have to be careful lest I end up spread too thin. What works for me is to help people and be seen helping people. Then I'm leveraging the time spent helping one person to help more people.

If I repeat myself a lot then I write a formal thread and link to it in future, again leveraging my time better.

If you're going to help people then see how you can help others at the same time. Try to scale it.

I record chats with people I've had and drop them in the forum. That helps the first person, and then anyone else who comes across the recording.

MJ wrote a book to help even more people. Even when he's asleep.
 

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
8,331
35,206
4,306
Ireland
There is a great book on it. It was mentioned in another thread (probably many times).

It's "Give and Take" by Adam Grant.

In a nutshell you should approach people and give value upfront without expectation to get something back. Then you can continue if you see the person/client is interested. You should probably feel it (I know it's vague, but it is common sense and experience). I don't think you could translate it to hours etc...

The author in the book says it should be at the third time (when you 'give' something for free), when you should stop 'giving' if you don't get anything back from this relationship. And this is the way the most successful 'givers' operate.
I had a couple of Audible credits so have purchased this. Thanks for the heads-up @Everyman.
 

biophase

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 25, 2007
6,513
29,147
5,083
Scottsdale, AZ
I am unable to work out how you demonstrated value to @Late Bloomer to the point that they would pay you straight away, rather than looking for free work.
This is odd to me that you don't see value in that. You don't see value in people responding to your questions on this forum? @Andy Black has demostrated his knowledge of Adwords by responding to many posts here. By demostrating his knowledge, people who are looking for Adwords help will hire him without additional vetting.

Are you saying that you would rather ask Andy to do free work for you (because he's a nice guy and he might say Yes) rather than offering to pay him for his time to specifically help you?
 

biophase

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 25, 2007
6,513
29,147
5,083
Scottsdale, AZ
Likes are vanity, profit is sanity. I measure my value add in terms of money gained. I have no interest in being liked.
You are missing the whole point of likes on this forum. Do you think I'm trying to get likes? Is that my motivation for replying to your post right now? Is my motivation to extract money from you? What is my motivation for choosing to hit the reply button?

Because you measure your value add in terms of money gained, that is precisely the reason that it is eluding you.

If I were to use your thinking... this is how I would have replied to your initial post.

"Sure you can add too much value. I bet you are giving away too much for free. I can show you exactly how to do just enough to show that you are competent to make it easier for people to want to pay you. PM me, and we can talk on Skype, It would only be $300 an hour."
 

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
1,947
3,349
772
Islands of Calleja
You could add even more value by giving them ten sessions "for free" though. Why not spend all day value adding with that client? I presume you have some kind of point where you would cut this short.
Why not 40 hours a week "value adding" to them "for free" ( actual "offers")
There's a concept in psychology called Reciprocity (covered extensively in Robert Cialdini's book 'Influence'.) Aside from sociopaths, most people feel very guilty if they're taking more than they're giving. If they take more then they give, they feel like grubs. If they give more than they take, they feel taken advantage of and used. Even if you do free work , it generally comes back and benefits you in some way shape or form.

People have to believe that by giving you their money, they will be in a better place than if they didn't.

Read "The Go Giver"

But the point isn't to become a charity. Please go back and watch the video I posted. It's not long and will save us a lot of headaches.

If you go buy a cheeseburger for $4.00, it's because you perceive that the cheeseburger has more value than the $4.00 in your pocket. The point of creating value isn't necessarily to give away free shit... it's to make something that's more valuable then the price you're asking so people are compelled to buy.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
L

LittleWolfie

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Jun 28, 2018
695
381
147
Holbeach Hurn
Do you know what makes someone referrable?
No

  1. They have manners. They say please and thank you.
  2. They turn up on time.
  3. They do what they said they'd do, or at least let you know what's happening.
  4. They're competent.
If you're excellent at 4) it won't make up for being cr@p at 1-3.
Thanks

What about 1-3?
  • Do I appear to have manners? Would I be someone pleasant to work with?
  • Would I turn up on time?
  • Would I do what I said I'd do, or communicate what's happening if things aren't going to plan?
You say please,thank you and rarely swear in various conversations so yes to polite.

Are you pleasant to work with? I'm unsure, I get the feeling your culture will require a lot of small talk and other unpleasant wasting of time, before we can get down to business. I think your probably far too figurative for me to say yes to that.

Would you turn up on time? How should I know? I see no evidence where you have turned up before the appointed time. No indication in the thread where you say you will do something at time x then do it 5 minutes before that. I'd need references to determine that.

Would I do what I said I'd do? I see no indication where you said you would do something and have done it,; Although I expect most people to do what they say they will do, until they prove otherwise, so I'd say yes, why should you be any different?

Or communicate what's happening if things aren't going to plan? I would say no, as you seem to have trouble with bringing up negative things(few people on this forum are posting their complaints and rants, so I doubt the ability of most to do this in the lack of any evidence)

As to competent, if I could judge that why would I hire an Adwords person, I'd do it myself.

If @Late Bloomer answers Yes to these as well, then he'll consider working with me.

Why would he not need a free trial? Because he's already seen all the free stuff I've done because he's come across it in his travels in the forum. That was the free, try-before-you-buy already.
It is interesting, that presented with the same information we can both draw differing conclusions. Though I have to convince people who are unlike me of the value

I presume there is something I can add somewhere on some topic that has similar results, though it bedevils me as to the what,where,and why.

Giving value and demostrating value aren’t the same thing.
Show them this post?
Have you read the books?
Do you know what makes someone referrable?
  1. They have manners. They say please and thank you.
  2. They turn up on time.
  3. They do what they said they'd do, or at least let you know what's happening.
  4. They're competent.
If you're excellent at 4) it won't make up for being cr@p at 1-3.

It's the same for hiring someone.


Soo... does @Late Bloomer think I'm competent enough at Google Ads?
What if he's read one or more of these threads?

What about 1-3?
  • Do I appear to have manners? Would I be someone pleasant to work with?
  • Would I turn up on time?
  • Would I do what I said I'd do, or communicate what's happening if things aren't going to plan?

If @Late Bloomer answers Yes to these as well, then he'll consider working with me.

Why would he not need a free trial? Because he's already seen all the free stuff I've done because he's come across it in his travels in the forum. That was the free, try-before-you-buy already.
This is a very good point. People forget that while you're giving an hour of your time for free to talk to someone, they're also giving an hour of their time to you for free.
Actually that's barter. 1 hour of time for 1 hour of time, free would be if you gave away an 1 hour of your time without taking their time back.

recipient of your hour needs to believe it’s worth *their* hour
Yes and this is why I say there is no free hour there. They also need to be worth your hour after all a business has to make money and that is why you choose to work with the people you do. It is a simple economic transaction regardless of the medium of payment there is is no "helping people for free" unless your a charity.



This is odd to me that you don't see value in that. You don't see value in people responding to your questions on this forum?
I'm hoping by working out the oddness, we can figure it out. In a lot of cases, no I see no value. There are some posts in which I see value (some times with few likes) one I think went in landfill. Value is subjective, unless it can be quantified.

@Andy Black has demostrated his knowledge of Adwords by responding to many posts here.


By demonstrating his knowledge, people who are looking for Adwords help will hire him without additional vetting.
By that logic anyone with a Github portfolio should be able to get work without additional vetting. They demonstrate their knowledge via using it as source control for their projects. That is emphatically untrue. How do you explain that? What is the missing part of the equation? Would it work if the source code was here instead? Or is it harder to see value in programming than in adwords? Or does it only work if your a contractor?

Are you saying that you would rather ask Andy to do free work for you (because he's a nice guy and he might say Yes) rather than offering to pay him for his time to specifically help you?
No, I'm trying to work out why that is all the offers I get and why Andy isn't expected to do that?

You are missing the whole point of likes on this forum. "
Quite possibly. I usually ignore them, likes are cheap and easy, which makes them poor quality feedback. People who think I have added value can make donations via paypal or crypto. Talk is cheap, money talks.


Is my motivation to extract money from you? What is my motivation for choosing to hit the reply button?
Yes, I think it is enlightened self interest. You know that doing it will increase your chances of more wealth and that is why you do it. After all if you increase the amount of wealth in the world, you can be even richer, so it is in your own best interests.

If I were to use your thinking... this is how I would have replied to your initial post.

"Sure you can add too much value. I bet you are giving away too much for free. I can show you exactly how to do just enough to show that you are competent to make it easier for people to want to pay you. PM me, and we can talk on Skype, It would only be $300 an hour."
That actually sounds really tempting, and could well motivate me to make money or try and barter or try and bring you down. I would have been delighted by that reply.

I certainly see a lot of value in that offer. I have a problem and you are offering to solve it. I'm pretty certain your being sarcastic though, which makes me sad. So I'm probably totally missing the point.

Here are some PMs I got

The 1 hour per day can be different, depending on the peak times for your page's niche. The automation tools get you followers naturally, Are you looking for me to guide you with Instagram automation or Instagram management, or both? I charge a one time consultation fees of $3,500 to consult you and guide you step by step for both Instagram management and automation. Tell you the A to Z of it so you can either grow your own pages or even start an Instagram marketing business yourself.


The link I refer to is for the Proven Amazon Course (PAC) and the part of the $399 course that teaches how to find in demand products not currently sold on Amazon is ProvenPerformanceInventory. You can browse through PAC here: https://ko296.isrefer.com/go/pac/whay/

This link partially reimburses me for allowing Jim Cockrum to include my book for free in PAC.

Regards,
<name removed by mod>

Neither of those sound like they would add the kind of value your offer would....
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Last edited by a moderator:

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
1,947
3,349
772
Islands of Calleja
I'm warning you right now. You're on the verge of pissing a bunch of really high profile members off. I've been on this forum long enough to know the warning signs, and your combative questioning is going to lead you down a path to fastlane leprosy.

I am unable to work out how you demonstrated value to @Late Bloomer to the point that they would pay you straight away, rather than looking for free work.
Because most people aren't going to work for free.

Andy is an expert on AdWords. Maybe it's not enough to know that from just the posts in this thread, but if you've been on this forum long enough, you'd know that. Now if someone thinks "hey i need some AdWords help" they're going to message Andy first. Why? Because they believe that by giving him their money, they will be in a better place than if they didnt. Not many people are going to ask him to work for free, because they're not douchebags and know he deserves to get paid for his work.

I don't know what you're thinking here. Do you think that people are just going to take advantage if you do free shit? I've found that to not be the case. I do free stuff all the time and it pays off in spades.


Would you turn up on time? How should I know? I see no evidence where you have turned up before the appointed time. No indication in the thread where you say you will do something at time x then do it 5 minutes before that. I'd need references to determine that.

Would I do what I said I'd do? I see no indication where you said you would do something and have done it,; Although I expect most people to do what they say they will do, until they prove otherwise, so I'd say yes, why should you be any different?
No one referred him yet. He's posting a list of things that make you referable. I'm sure lots of people refer him, but where do you even see a referral?

Dude what is your central thesis? What is your exact question? Because right now it just seems like you're nitpicking a bunch of very experienced posters for god-knows-what reason.
 
OP
OP
L

LittleWolfie

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Jun 28, 2018
695
381
147
Holbeach Hurn
Do you think that people are just going to take advantage if you do free shit?
Yes. It has happened to me before, I believed in the promise of "just do this well and then paid work will follow"

I['ve found that to not be the case. I do free stuff all the time and it pays off in spades.
I have found the opposite, so if we compare notes. I am hoping we can figure out where I went wrong. What free stuff did you do for whom and how did it pay off?
 
Last edited:

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
1,947
3,349
772
Islands of Calleja
Are you saying that you would rather ask Andy to do free work for you (because he's a nice guy and he might say Yes) rather than offering to pay him for his time to specifically help you?
No, I'm trying to work out why that is all the offers I get and why Andy isn't expected to do that?
Gee I F*cking wonder

You are missing the whole point of likes on this forum. Do you think I'm trying to get likes? Is that my motivation for replying to your post right now? Is my motivation to extract money from you? What is my motivation for choosing to hit the reply button?
Quite possibly. I usually ignore them, likes are cheap and easy, which makes them poor quality feedback. People who think I have added value can make donations via paypal or crypto. Talk is cheap, money talks.
Yea and if there were a donation system, the same people who get 'likes' would be the same people who get donations.


Herein lies the reason Andy gets paid for his AdWords work, and people want you to do free shit. The root cause is the same as why you're not getting 'likes' on this forum. Me personally? Based off what I've seen I don't know that I'd actually want to pay for your work. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I don't get the impression you would add much value to whatever I was doing. Andy is helpful, personable, knowledgable. You're combative and argumentative and keep trying to nitpick everyone's posts.

Phase 1) don't be a dick
Phase 2) do awesome work
Phase 3) ???
Phase 4) PROFIT
 
OP
OP
L

LittleWolfie

Bronze Contributor
Speedway Pass
Jun 28, 2018
695
381
147
Holbeach Hurn
I'm warning you right now. You're on the verge of pissing a bunch of really high profile members off.
Thanks for the warning, I will stop posting as I want to avoid further antagonistic questions. Would you like to continue via PMs?
 

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
1,947
3,349
772
Islands of Calleja
Thanks for the warning, I will stop posting as I want to avoid further antagonistic questions. Would you like to continue via PMs?
No that's fine, but just if you seem like you're nitpicking posts people are going to get agitated. Keep in mind, no one is getting paid for this and they're trying to help you.


Yes. It has happened to me before, I believed in the promise of "just do this well and then paid ork will follow"

I have found the opposite, so if we compare notes. I am hoping we can figure out where I went wrong. What free stuff did you do for whom and how did it pay off?
Too many to list. I have a client roster that's full of famous podcasters, internet personalities, authors. I mean you also have to do really good work (adding value) but half the time I just message them like 'wow, that's a really cool project you're working on... if you need help let me know!'

I mean I don't do it purposely to make money. Half the time I forget to invoice my clients lol. I just do my best and try to add something to the world. Just a side effect of that is usually money. I don't even really care about profit. Like Elon Musk just wants to change the world and make eco-friendly electric vehicles the norm in order to create a better planet. An (almost accidental) side effect of that is money.
 

Jon L

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2015
925
2,266
561
Santa Maria, CA
There was a book I read (can't remember the name) where the author did some academic research into the various mindsets of employees at various companies. He broke the mindsets down into three categories:
  1. scarcity / stinginess (always looking out for number 1, gotta get mine, zero sum game, etc)
  2. Helpful / always giving (would always look for a way to add value to a situation, regardless of the personal cost)
  3. Helpful / giving when appropriate (I don't remember the term he used for this mindset, which is too bad because it was really good, but the key was that these people had a mindset of adding value wherever they went, but not at the expense of their own personal goals.

Guess which mindset made the most money / was promoted the fastest / etc?

The third one, by far.

It sounds like you're thinking with a #1 mindset. It also sounds like you think everyone here is preaching a #2 mindset. We're not. We're preaching #3.
 

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
8,331
35,206
4,306
Ireland
There was a book I read (can't remember the name) where the author did some academic research into the various mindsets of employees at various companies. He broke the mindsets down into three categories:
  1. scarcity / stinginess (always looking out for number 1, gotta get mine, zero sum game, etc)
  2. Helpful / always giving (would always look for a way to add value to a situation, regardless of the personal cost)
  3. Helpful / giving when appropriate (I don't remember the term he used for this mindset, which is too bad because it was really good, but the key was that these people had a mindset of adding value wherever they went, but not at the expense of their own personal goals.

Guess which mindset made the most money / was promoted the fastest / etc?

The third one, by far.

It sounds like you're thinking with a #1 mindset. It also sounds like you think everyone here is preaching a #2 mindset. We're not. We're preaching #3.
I strayed too much to #2 recently and got myself a bit burned. Thank you for writing this up.
 

Jon L

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2015
925
2,266
561
Santa Maria, CA
I'm a total #2 by default. I have to remind myself pretty regularly to not fall into that trap. Not easy to do.
If I remember right, the #2's were the least successful but most liked. #1's were more successful but disliked, and #3's were the most successful and both liked and respected.
 

Process

Bronze Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Jul 19, 2017
154
350
191
Solving Pain
It’s like giving a sample of your new snack. Give them a smell or taste of how valuable it can be.


They don’t get the whole box unless they buy the whole box.
 

Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe.

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
8,331
35,206
4,306
Ireland
If I remember right, the #2's were the least successful but most liked. #1's were more successful but disliked, and #3's were the most successful and both liked and respected.
Being a #2 by default is a great start. It’s especially helpful starting out when you’ve less value to add than a willingness to work.

For folks who default to #2 then I agree that we have to make a conscious effort to put systems/processes in place to not get taken advantage of, and to ensure we “put our own oxygen mask on first.”

My hack is to realise I won’t help as many people as I could if I go out of business.
 

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
1,947
3,349
772
Islands of Calleja
There was a book I read (can't remember the name) where the author did some academic research into the various mindsets of employees at various companies. He broke the mindsets down into three categories:
  1. scarcity / stinginess (always looking out for number 1, gotta get mine, zero sum game, etc)
  2. Helpful / always giving (would always look for a way to add value to a situation, regardless of the personal cost)
  3. Helpful / giving when appropriate (I don't remember the term he used for this mindset, which is too bad because it was really good, but the key was that these people had a mindset of adding value wherever they went, but not at the expense of their own personal goals.

Guess which mindset made the most money / was promoted the fastest / etc?

The third one, by far.

It sounds like you're thinking with a #1 mindset. It also sounds like you think everyone here is preaching a #2 mindset. We're not. We're preaching #3.
If you can remember the name of that book, that would be way helpful. Or if you could remember enough details to find it on Google.


I strayed too much to #2 recently and got myself a bit burned. Thank you for writing this up.
If I remember right, the #2's were the least successful but most liked. #1's were more successful but disliked, and #3's were the most successful and both liked and respected.
Yep, I have a tendency to be a #2 as well. Have to remind myself.
 

Jon L

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2015
925
2,266
561
Santa Maria, CA
Being a #2 by default is a great start. It’s especially helpful starting out when you’ve less value to add than a willingness to work.

For folks who default to #2 then I agree that we have to make a conscious effort to put systems/processes in place to not get taken advantage of, and to “put our own oxygen mask on first.”

My hack is to realise I won’t help as many people as I could if I go out of business.
haha! yes. Hard to help people from the gutter.
 

Jon L

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2015
925
2,266
561
Santa Maria, CA
If you can remember the name of that book, that would be way helpful. Or if you could remember enough details to find it on Google.





Yep, I have a tendency to be a #2 as well. Have to remind myself.
Its called "Give and Take" by Adam Grant.

Reading through some of the synopses, I got some of the details wrong. The essence, though, is correct - be a giver, but not too much, and you'll likely be very successful.
 

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
1,947
3,349
772
Islands of Calleja
I have no idea right now. I'll keep thinking about it. It could have been anything from a podcast to a full-on book.
Okay cool... if you happen to find it in your Amazon or iTunes history or whatever I'll totally buy you lunch.

But yea, I sometimes have issues with being a #2. Thank god most of my clients are great about it

There was also some research showing that being too Agreeable correlated with a lower income, further corroborating that idea.

Edit:

Its called "Give and Take" by Adam Grant.

Reading through some of the synopses, I got some of the details wrong. The essence, though, is correct - be a giver, but not too much, and you'll likely be very successful.
Ahhh, someone literally just recommended that in another thread! Now I'm definitely gonna grab it. Thanks a million
 

Jon L

Gold Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
Aug 22, 2015
925
2,266
561
Santa Maria, CA
Okay cool... if you happen to find it in your Amazon or iTunes history or whatever I'll totally buy you lunch.

But yea, I sometimes have issues with being a #2. Thank god most of my clients are great about it

There was also some research showing that being too Agreeable correlated with a lower income, further corroborating that idea.
just found it ... see above.

And yes, I've had clients give me more money than I asked for. (not sure what this is telling me...perhaps I should raise my prices? naw...)
 

ChrisV

Platinum Contributor
Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
May 10, 2015
1,947
3,349
772
Islands of Calleja
Its called "Give and Take" by Adam Grant.

Reading through some of the synopses, I got some of the details wrong. The essence, though, is correct - be a giver, but not too much, and you'll likely be very successful.
just found it ... see above.

And yes, I've had clients give me more money than I asked for. (not sure what this is telling me...perhaps I should raise my prices? naw...)
Yep, edited my post when i saw. Thanks!

And I've had the same experience. Many of my clients have offered me more money than I charge. I think that further illustrated how honest most people usually are. People usually want to pay you fairly for your work. They feel guilty otherwise. Again, not everyone, but I'd say most people.
 

Andy Black

Any colour, as long as it's red.
Staff member
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Millionaire Fastlane
Speedway Pass
May 20, 2014
8,331
35,206
4,306
Ireland
Ha. I’m literally just listening to the first chapter of “Give and Take” and was about to ask if that was the book @Jon L.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.



Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum. Subscribe to become an INSIDER.

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Monthly conference calls with doers
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Top Bottom