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AMA - I built a software company worth 8 figures

relentless_j

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Hello @Ravens_Shadow

Im a developer, and was recently presented with a concept by a dental practice owner, who thinks theres some value in modifying existing dental practice management software to solve a need

My question is, since i have a lot of potential opportunities like this that i constantly bounce back and forth on, how do you determine

- potential success/ROI of a potential solution?
- the hiring offer proposed to initial team members when VC is not an option, and initial funding is limited?
- build something from the start with the intention to sell it?

For example,

The potential solution: the dentist who spoke with me has said hes discussed this problem with other practice owners at conventions, and everyone seems to have the same problem. Ok, so we have a market needing a solution, with constituents who can afford to pay. We have a biz model that can scale ~infinitely. But how do you REALLY evaluate the opportunity here? What i mean is, Dental Practice Management software is a niche that is spoken for. for multiple decades now. We're definitely not breaking new ground with this concept (at least i dont think). In my mobile dev experience of hearing people's "App ideas", 99% of them are crap. either they would have low enterprise value, they dont solve a significant enough problem, or theyre catering to a market that cant pay. So what framework could be used to really eval if the juice is worth the squeeze on something like this, assuming your goal is a solid exit valuation?

The Hiring Offer: software projects, esp disruptive ones, are never simple to achieve. to get a minimum viable product out takes a whole team, and not just developers. How do you craft your hiring offer to attract top tier talent when youre not VC funded, and have little funding to start?

Build To Sell: name of a book ive read on the topic, but aside from managing books early on, making sure employee retention is good, having solid enterprise value etc, how do you approach ensuring the project youre building is something thats sellable within a year or two of its creation?

Thanks!
- Jim
 
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Yah-is-King

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I've been wanting to do an AMA (Ask me anything) for a while. I've built a desktop software company worth 8 figures, but I'm aiming for $1 billion, not to be a unicorn, but just because I think its the natural progression of where I'm headed. I started the company in 2016 and I have 15 employees and I've never taken on investor money despite rejecting quite a few offers. In MJ's own words he thinks that my company will be the first 9 figure (hopefully 10 though) exit on the forum. I built everything from the ground up on the business end by myself. I brought on my initial founding partner with equity and a few initial employees with equity. I've had experience negotiating a multi-million dollar contract and building an entire IP from nothing which has seriously upset an industry as we came out of nowhere. We also follow profit first accounting methods and do quarterly dividends. I don't want to publicly name the company here but I'm happy to answer general business questions or give advice on situations you may be in.

I don't really believe in outsourcing cheap labor or paying/treating employees like dispensable objects. Everyone in my company makes a minimum of $80,000 a year, even if in their country it's perfectly acceptable that they're paid a fraction of what we pay them. I believe in treating both customers and employees as well as I possibly can in an effort to retain their strong talents.

Ask me anything about:

  • Managing employees and building a team
  • Subscription and permanent license based software
  • Bootstrapping your business & working on the biz while you have a day job
  • Dividend distributions and taking money out of your business
  • Building a successful software company, even if you can't code (I can't)
  • General business advice, mindset, etc
  • Anything that you feel you want to know about someone who's gotten as far as I have

Hi Raven shadow I was wondering how you got started. I guess I'd like to know your journey I'm someone currently is looking for work at 23 and have been doing so for sometime. So I would like to know kind of mindsets have helped you on your journey to allow you to get to where you are now
 

DougRMR

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Hey @Ravens_Shadow , congrats on your huge success. Really inspires other aspiring entrepreneurs.

Quick questions: 1) how would I go choosing a software company to code an app if I have no understanding of coding? How will I know if I'm wasting time and money for an app that might or might not work? Is there some red flags I should look out for?

2) As a startup with a small budget, what's the best way to market software B2B?
 

MexicanCreator48

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Anything that you feel you want to know about someone who's gotten as far as I have
Congratulations on your success! I have some questions:

1. Did you incorporate in Delaware or in your local state?
2. How did you find your cofounder?
3. How did you calm down and relax when things were rough in your company?
 
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FIFL

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The potential solution: the dentist who spoke with me has said hes discussed this problem with other practice owners at conventions, and everyone seems to have the same problem. Ok, so we have a market needing a solution, with constituents who can afford to pay. We have a biz model that can scale ~infinitely. But how do you REALLY evaluate the opportunity here? What i mean is, Dental Practice Management software is a niche that is spoken for. for multiple decades now. We're definitely not breaking new ground with this concept (at least i dont think). In my mobile dev experience of hearing people's "App ideas", 99% of them are crap. either they would have low enterprise value, they dont solve a significant enough problem, or theyre catering to a market that cant pay. So what framework could be used to really eval if the juice is worth the squeeze on something like this, assuming your goal is a solid exit valuation?

This is actually a pretty good question, and what I'm thinking through right now myself.

Right now I know of an industry, that has a need, and I've spoken to multiple companies that have all confirmed that need. My approach is to build a prototype and test it with a friendly in the game. If it helps them, then I'm rolling.
 

watchopt

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So what framework could be used to really eval if the juice is worth the squeeze on something like this, assuming your goal is a solid exit valuation?
My phone won't paste. Ugh. Search the forum using
'CENTS evaluator'
 
A

Anon101637

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Hi ! I'm a developer, and I'm building my anti-addiction company where I could also build software that would block access to addictive content and revolutionize my own way the computer science world right now I own a website which do nothing except being on the internet and I plan to work my a$$ on it this summer to add my own ecommerce.

Also, I'm going to learn Flutter this summer so I can build cross-platform mobile application where user can access from every devices to my mobile application so I have to restart all over again but with experience acquired now so I would come back fast and flutter would even help me with some functionality.

My question is how can I make my anti-addiction business successful I plan to make an anti-addiction business also based on a sport brand and surpass brand like adidas, Nike, Gymshark etc. But at the same time I want to make a software company that could become a Google competitor but I imagine being a billionaire would be kind of hell and I don't want to support that my entire existence as up for the name of the brand it would be Achilles but Android Studio would be called like Ashield which means Achilles with the shield basically the thing with this is it would deny access to explicited content website without requiring google extensions I would want to build my own programming language like trojan or I don't know what cool name I could pick but yeah you get the idea.



As for the location of the business I plan to establish it somewhere else in the state most google office are in the state such as Silicon valley




Thanks!
- Alexis Autotte
 
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Antifragile

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I do not want my competitors, or my customers to know details about how I operate the business or what I went through. I don't want it to be searchable on google and lead people to here, which then leads people to my INSIDERS thread that details a massive majority of what i've done to build my company. It is a competitive advantage if they read my trials and issues i'm facing.

Will respond to everyone else soon. :)
I’m in the same boat as you. I want to help, but don’t want to be searchable from Google. And don’t want my staff to read about themselves if I chose to share. It has prevented me from doing a deeper dive here discussing my own business. I chose to focus on general AMA, and hope it’s enough to make a small difference for this who are just starting out.

Congrats on your success to date and if you do have an exit, I hope it’s 10 figures!
 

Danny_Cox

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I've been wanting to do an AMA (Ask me anything) for a while. I've built a desktop software company worth 8 figures, but I'm aiming for $1 billion...
Congratulations. Amazing to see so many successful folks congregating here, testifying for the Fastlane model. May you enjoy the fruits of your substantial labour, may MJ enjoy a warm fuzzy feeling inside, and may the rest of us learn everything we need to find our own successes
 

Issi007

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Patents for software are almost useless in my opinion. When speaking of IP i really mean our product in general. It was something that hadn't been done before in the way we did it. I started with a gigantic problem I wanted to solve and I don't know why anyone would do anything other than that. I knew the problem, I formulated a hypothesis on how to solve that, I built a crude prototype myself and then showed it to people I wanted to bring onboard. They eventually agreed to build it for me for equity and here we are making more money that we thought we could.
Congratulations mate @Ravens_Shadow !

I could recap your process this way:
Problem definition ---solution hypothesis---prototype--- partners search.
In my opinion, the process is logical and straightforward but i am wondering without coding skills how were you able to prototype ? Do you have any prototyping tips you could share to a newbie like I ?
I would appreciate your take on this,

Thank you for sharing and the value you are building in the FL community!
 
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Ritchie.

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Dividend distributions and taking money out of your business
Amazing thread Raven, Congratulations. I have read your replies to people's questions and I have learned a lot.
I would love to know how you distribute dividends and how you decide what percentage to take out of the business?
 

Dadars10

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I've been wanting to do an AMA (Ask me anything) for a while. I've built a desktop software company worth 8 figures, but I'm aiming for $1 billion, not to be a unicorn, but just because I think its the natural progression of where I'm headed. I started the company in 2016 and I have 15 employees and I've never taken on investor money despite rejecting quite a few offers. In MJ's own words he thinks that my company will be the first 9 figure (hopefully 10 though) exit on the forum. I built everything from the ground up on the business end by myself. I brought on my initial founding partner with equity and a few initial employees with equity. I've had experience negotiating a multi-million dollar contract and building an entire IP from nothing which has seriously upset an industry as we came out of nowhere. We also follow profit first accounting methods and do quarterly dividends. I don't want to publicly name the company here but I'm happy to answer general business questions or give advice on situations you may be in.

I don't really believe in outsourcing cheap labor or paying/treating employees like dispensable objects. Everyone in my company makes a minimum of $80,000 a year, even if in their country it's perfectly acceptable that they're paid a fraction of what we pay them. I believe in treating both customers and employees as well as I possibly can in an effort to retain their strong talents.

Ask me anything about:

  • Managing employees and building a team
  • Subscription and permanent license based software
  • Bootstrapping your business & working on the biz while you have a day job
  • Dividend distributions and taking money out of your business
  • Building a successful software company, even if you can't code (I can't)
  • General business advice, mindset, etc
  • Anything that you feel you want to know about someone who's gotten as far as I have



If you know the company I run or my industry, please do not mention it in this thread. It is irrelevant, and if anything it's a harder industry to be in than most.
I Know this sectot is really profitable, but im not programmer, i have some ideas. My question are:

1. What is in details a software business? I just need to create a product or find client and create product for them?
2. How scale this business?
3. I can start this business whitout program skills?

Thanks bro
 
A

Anon101637

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Hi ! I'm curious to know
1- how much did you invest on the building where employees work ?
2- How did you find clients to sell your products or ideas
3- What happened during the process execution fear of execution, fear of getting judged by others, fear of failure etc. etc.
 
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Equilibrium

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You mentioned you have declined funding offers. Why? What made you choose to not take additional funding?
Did you start as simply a product, launch as a LLC or go through another red tape form process?
 

Ravens_Shadow

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Do you have an in-house legal team? If yes, at what point you brought it into your business? If not, how do you manage contracts and such?
We use an external business lawfirm that is buddy-buddy with our accounting firm.

Thank you for sharing all your knowledge.

Does the company buy back equity from employees who want to leave or do you personally buy back equity? At an evaluation of 8 figures, buying back equity is expensive. How do you do that? Do you pay out leaving equity owners in full or is there some payment scheme...



Follow up questions:
- How do you pick yourself up after failing? I feel quite beaten down after recent my second failure.
- Did you start your full-time job in order to gain industry knowledge just to be able to start your own successful statup? Did you have your startup in mind when starting your full-time job?

If someone leaves and they have equity, we buy it back at a negotiated multiple. Probably less than actual market value. We would come up with a payment plan that all parties can agree to in almost all cases.

Hi, thank you for the AMA. Great thread.
Somewhere earlier in the thread - you wrote that hiring is hard. I run a medical clinic -and I find HR/employees to be one of the biggest challenges. A couple of questions:
1) For hiring - have you gotten to the point of having HR professionals? do you outsource this, or bring someone in house for it? Even though this can be a time saver, it can lead to different challenges. I'd love any advice on this you can share.

2) For managing employees and workload - especially in a completely virtual work environment - do you have clear job responsibilities for each employee (ie written for them to reference)? how do you monitor productivity/deliverables (are there managers checking on employee productivity)? Have you had issues with employees who weren't productive (presumably visiting facebook or instagram, or shopping on amazon during work hours), and how did you manage that?
Thanks!
Kenny

1. We don't use any HR firm, we just post on our website and linkedin that we're looking and generally get qualified applicants within a day or so and hire them fast.
2. I don't care what my employees are doing at any given time. They may only code for 4 hours a day, but if they get their work done for each 6 week work cycle we follow then if they get it done early, good for them! We do have an operations guy who checks in every few days on each employee to ensure that they are progressing. So yeah, no monitoring of employees.
Hi Raven shadow I was wondering how you got started. I guess I'd like to know your journey I'm someone currently is looking for work at 23 and have been doing so for sometime. So I would like to know kind of mindsets have helped you on your journey to allow you to get to where you are now
I needed to win so badly. I was tired of being broke, missing rent, and the like. I needed to win because I saw no other way.
Hey @Ravens_Shadow , congrats on your huge success. Really inspires other aspiring entrepreneurs.

Quick questions: 1) how would I go choosing a software company to code an app if I have no understanding of coding? How will I know if I'm wasting time and money for an app that might or might not work? Is there some red flags I should look out for?

2) As a startup with a small budget, what's the best way to market software B2B?
1. No clue, i've never done it and generally would recommend having an inhouse team.
2. Linkedin and youtube, its free!
Congratulations on your success! I have some questions:

1. Did you incorporate in Delaware or in your local state?
2. How did you find your cofounder?
3. How did you calm down and relax when things were rough in your company?

1. Local state, but may have been a mistake. Trying to figure this out now.
2. Discord programming server
3. I still have trouble calming down to this day. But in general I try to realize that stress only makes me sick and I can't be stressed about things that won't be an issue in a few months.
Huge wall of text
- Alexis Autotte
Just build something but don't immediately expect to outpace google or nike etc. Thinking you can do that from the start will be a sure fire way to discourage you. See this: NOTABLE! - MINDSET - Managing Your Expectations Is Everything! Expectations.. An Integral Piece To Your First Million In Sales.
In my opinion, the process is logical and straightforward but i am wondering without coding skills how were you able to prototype ?
1. I bought a book that taught me basic coding and I cobbled libraries and other open-source projects together and asked friends for advice to get a basic prototype.
I would love to know how you distribute dividends and how you decide what percentage to take out of the business?
Profit first: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HCGYTH4/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20
1. What is in details a software business? I just need to create a product or find client and create product for them?
2. How scale this business?
3. I can start this business whitout program skills?

Thanks bro
1. Find a problem to solve, don't build random software because you think the market is lucrative.
2. Get customers and build a good product
3. Sure you can, I did.
Hi ! I'm curious to know
1- how much did you invest on the building where employees work ?
2- How did you find clients to sell your products or ideas
3- What happened during the process execution fear of execution, fear of getting judged by others, fear of failure etc. etc.
1. We work remote, no building.
2. Twitter, youtube, linkedin, forums, discord
3. I cried, i got stressed, I got angry, I got insulted by people, etc. I just pushed forward because I wanted to win.
You mentioned you have declined funding offers. Why? What made you choose to not take additional funding?
Did you start as simply a product, launch as a LLC or go through another red tape form process?
I don't want to relinquish control to someone who can possibly have a say in controlling my own destiny. I'd rather run a successful company for 30 years and collect healthy dividends each quarter than sell out to a company that I despise or risk my dreams for. I also just want to guard the equity I have. We launched as an LLC.
 

Chrisrod2597

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I've been wanting to do an AMA (Ask me anything) for a while. I've built a desktop software company worth 8 figures, but I'm aiming for $1 billion, not to be a unicorn, but just because I think its the natural progression of where I'm headed. I started the company in 2016 and I have 15 employees and I've never taken on investor money despite rejecting quite a few offers. In MJ's own words he thinks that my company will be the first 9 figure (hopefully 10 though) exit on the forum. I built everything from the ground up on the business end by myself. I brought on my initial founding partner with equity and a few initial employees with equity. I've had experience negotiating a multi-million dollar contract and building an entire IP from nothing which has seriously upset an industry as we came out of nowhere. We also follow profit first accounting methods and do quarterly dividends. I don't want to publicly name the company here but I'm happy to answer general business questions or give advice on situations you may be in.

I don't really believe in outsourcing cheap labor or paying/treating employees like dispensable objects. Everyone in my company makes a minimum of $80,000 a year, even if in their country it's perfectly acceptable that they're paid a fraction of what we pay them. I believe in treating both customers and employees as well as I possibly can in an effort to retain their strong talents.

Ask me anything about:

  • Managing employees and building a team
  • Subscription and permanent license based software
  • Bootstrapping your business & working on the biz while you have a day job
  • Dividend distributions and taking money out of your business
  • Building a successful software company, even if you can't code (I can't)
  • General business advice, mindset, etc
  • Anything that you feel you want to know about someone who's gotten as far as I have



If you know the company I run or my industry, please do not mention it in this thread. It is irrelevant, and if anything it's a harder industry to be in than most.
What advice would you give someone who is committed to starting a software company but has no experience or money to start with?
 
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focusedlife

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I was never scared of someone running away with the idea because most programmers by default aren't even thinking about running a business anyway.
Thanks for posting this... cool if I ask, how'd you arrive at this idea and why do you suppose more programmers DON'T think about macro problem solving in the same entrepreneurial way?

Also, how'd you know who to try and partner with?

What would have been your resolve had your programmers proven to be more underhanded?
 

AyoEpic

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Patents for software are almost useless in my opinion. When speaking of IP i really mean our product in general. It was something that hadn't been done before in the way we did it. I started with a gigantic problem I wanted to solve and I don't know why anyone would do anything other than that. I knew the problem, I formulated a hypothesis on how to solve that, I built a crude prototype myself and then showed it to people I wanted to bring onboard. They eventually agreed to build it for me for equity and here we are making more money that we thought we could.

Did you ever test the market for your idea? If so, how ?

I have an idea with potential Everyone I've asked from people I know all over the country says it’s something that’s done by hand and takes hours and hours. There's not much competition, the one that was for sure using a software said it sucked. But since everyones doing it by hand. I'm concerned about the NEED of it, but hours and hours across hundreds of establishments across U.S. adds up to alot so I think theres potential. I'm still look

I'm currently asking groups in reddit and facebook groups but I'm not sure if im asking the right questions

Any advice?

Thank you
 

Ravens_Shadow

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Did you ever test the market for your idea? If so, how ?

I have an idea with potential Everyone I've asked from people I know all over the country says it’s something that’s done by hand and takes hours and hours. There's not much competition, the one that was for sure using a software said it sucked. But since everyones doing it by hand. I'm concerned about the NEED of it, but hours and hours across hundreds of establishments across U.S. adds up to alot so I think theres potential. I'm still look

I'm currently asking groups in reddit and facebook groups but I'm not sure if im asking the right questions

Any advice?

Thank you
Not really, I just said "I'm doing this thing" and people either said that it wasn't possible or went wild with excitement. Just build it if you think it can solve a serious issue that people will pay to solve. Doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
 
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WillHurtDontCare

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I cried, i got stressed, I got angry, I got insulted by people, etc. I just pushed forward because I wanted to win.

This is how winners think - emotions are subordinated to action and long term goals.

I still can't believe that you can get the real time business journals of people building billion dollar companies for only $100 per year.

Thank you @Ravens_Shadow and @MJ DeMarco
 

Two Dog

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Great story. I'll have to dig around and find the progress thread, but I'm assuming it covers several years.

Could you launch the business today and expect the same outcome? What would be different?

A big part of MJ's success with lead gen was that it was novel at the time. It's hard to remember that the circumstances that enabled a particular business in the past often wouldn't work today. I couldn't launch my SaaS today and get any traction. Not a chance. Completely different business model and product would be needed for success.

Software was always hard. It was hard twenty years ago, harder ten years ago and ridiculously hard today. The world now expects completely amazing web apps that perform miracles for free. Or you can buy the much better version for $0.99 / month. Our expectations have been shaped by an immense amount of VC capital flowing into tech startups who will spend $5M - $10M to build a product that will be given away. Devs are super expensive. The technology changes daily. Startups have the cash to hire the smartest marketing people on the planet. Everything can be easily cloned.

If you haven't started or run a bootstrapped software company, that probably sounds really pessimistic. Yes and no. Launching and running a lifestyle size SaaS is about the same degree of difficulty as any other online business that will sell for 40 - 55x multiples. Difficult, but doable. Raising $100M+ and going public in three years is like winning a lottery ticket.
 

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Great story. I'll have to dig around and find the progress thread, but I'm assuming it covers several years.

Could you launch the business today and expect the same outcome? What would be different?

A big part of MJ's success with lead gen was that it was novel at the time. It's hard to remember that the circumstances that enabled a particular business in the past often wouldn't work today. I couldn't launch my SaaS today and get any traction. Not a chance. Completely different business model and product would be needed for success.

Software was always hard. It was hard twenty years ago, harder ten years ago and ridiculously hard today. The world now expects completely amazing web apps that perform miracles for free. Or you can buy the much better version for $0.99 / month. Our expectations have been shaped by an immense amount of VC capital flowing into tech startups who will spend $5M - $10M to build a product that will be given away. Devs are super expensive. The technology changes daily. Startups have the cash to hire the smartest marketing people on the planet. Everything can be easily cloned.

If you haven't started or run a bootstrapped software company, that probably sounds really pessimistic. Yes and no. Launching and running a lifestyle size SaaS is about the same degree of difficulty as any other online business that will sell for 40 - 55x multiples. Difficult, but doable. Raising $100M+ and going public in three years is like winning a lottery ticket.

Your comments above are only true if you believe them to be true. And these are limiting beliefs that will hold you back. It's like dragging a parachute behind a race car, no matter how much horsepower you got.

Lately I've been in a philosophical mood... contemplating business things. This has been the best year for my business yet and I am somewhat run down from massive effort that went into it.
  • Our business seems to have impossible barriers to entry. Back in 1970s a person could walk into the bank and borrow $30M against a $10k net worth. I keep hearing those stories from boomer generation who made it, how they took the money and the "risks". People similar to me in age/wealth etc, today believe that entering development of RE is an impossible task. Worse than money, the process got harder, bylaws are more nuanced, ESG, consumer demands - EVERYTHING is harder. People similar to me should not be able to make it in this business, but... bumble bee isn't aerodynamic, yet it doesn't know it, so it does flies! I think there is a huge need for young people in RE Development and that just about anyone with a good head on their shoulders can do it.
  • Someone posted about not knowing what business to start in another thread. I channeled my inner satire into a reply "I am willing to do whatever it takes, except show up or put any kind of effort" type. If I didn't have a business and wanted to start new today, how? What would I do? ... surprisingly I see the need for better software every step I take. Investor reporting at affordable prices would be #1, as it's a pain point for me. How to decide? It's not about how hard it is to code, it is about being in the room where no one thinks like you! Real estate developers are typically old and their teams aren't thinking of software the same way someone on this forum might. Get invited into the room where you don't belong, listen to them bitch and complain - solve that problem. It's actually not as hard as you make it seem in your post.
This isn't my thread. I am not in software. I am not in e-comm. I never met MJ and know only what he shared in his books about his businesses (very little). None of that matters! I can tell you: business is never harder or easier, that's marginal thinking. Business is a processes that begins with finding pain points and then removing those. Call it "need" or "value" or whatever. Get in the room with people who typically don't associate with you, then LISTEN to them, really listen. They'll bitch and complain about stuff. Pick one and go. Problems are so abundant, there is not way you don't hit payday quickly.

edit: some spelling
 
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Two Dog

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Your comments above are only true if you believe them to be true. And these are limiting beliefs that will hold you back. It's like dragging a parachute behind a race car, no matter how much horsepower you got.

Lately I've been in a philosophical mood... contemplating business things. This has been the best year for my business yet and I am somewhat run down from massive effort that went into it.
  • Our business seems to have impossible barriers to entry. Back in 1970s a person could walk into the bank and borrow $30M against a $10k net worth. I keep hearing those stories from boomer generation who made it, how they took the money and the "risks". People similar to me in age/wealth etc, today believe that entering development of RE is an impossible task. Worse than money, the process got harder, bylaws are more nuanced, ESG, consumer demands - EVERYTHING is harder. People similar to me should not be able to make it in this business, but... bumble bee isn't aerodynamic yet it doesn't know it so it does fly! I think there is a huge need for young people in RE Development and that just about anyone with a good head on their shoulders can do it.
  • Someone posted about not knowing what business to start in another thread. I channeled my inner satire into a reply "I am willing to do whatever it takes, except show up or put any kind of effort" type. If I didn't have a business and wanted to start new today, how? What would I do? ... surprisingly I see the need for better software every step I take. Investor reporting at affordable prices would be #1, as it's a pain point for me. How to decide? It's not about how hard it is to code, it is about being in the room where no one thinks like you! Real estate developers are typically old and their teams aren't thinking of software the same way someone on this forum might. Get invited into the room where you don't belong, listen to them bitch and complain - solve that problem. It's actually not as hard as you make it seem in your post.
This isn't my thread. I am not in software. I am not in e-comm. I never met MJ and know only what he shared in his books about his businesses (very little). None of that matters! I can tell you: business is never harder or easier, that's marginal thinking. Business is a processes that begins with finding pain point and then removing that. Call it "need" or "value" or whatever. Get in the room with people who typically don't associate with you, then LISTEN to them, really listen. They'll bitch and complain about stuff. Pick one and go. Problems are so abundant, there is not way you don't hit payday quickly.
Agreed those are self-limiting beliefs. Doesn't mean paying attention to them is wrong. It saves time.

I'm not going to run a five minute mile. Never. Even with bionic legs. My comments about striking gold in the field of software are accurate. For many, many people, that just means they should look for easier opportunities. You're 100% correct about the abundance of opportunities that exist connected with need that are solvable with software. My observation is simply that those particular opportunities attract the best candidates imaginable in every way and the average bear should find an easier place to play.

Heck, I'm moving on from software to cutting lawns in a few months. No competition.

The brilliant 18YO kid doing my website already has a SaaS company on the side. Time is on his side. LOL.
 

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Agreed those are self-limiting beliefs. Doesn't mean paying attention to them is wrong. It saves time.
Paying attention to self-limiting beliefs to change and eliminate them is good. Yet I am not sure what you mean by "it saves time". Saves time from trying when you believe you'll fail? Like I said, it's true if you believe it to be true.

I'm not going to run a five minute mile. Never. Even with bionic legs.
Why not?

My comments about striking gold in the field of software are accurate. For many, many people, that just means they should look for easier opportunities.

This is true for most business ventures. Entrepreneurship is not easier than just getting a job. From that angle, everyone who has limiting beliefs (external locust of control) should not seek to start a business and stick to having a job.

You're 100% correct about the abundance of opportunities that exist connected with need that are solvable with software. My observation is simply that those particular opportunities attract the best candidates imaginable in every way and the average bear should find an easier place to play.

Crazy thought... people on this forum are not "average" by virtue of simply seeking, finding and being here.

But even average entrepreneur can do very, very well.
Heck, I'm moving on from software to cutting lawns in a few months. No competition.

I am not sure I follow. No competition in landscaping? Seems as saturated as it can be, lowest barrier to entry etc. Anyone with a lawn mower can get started.

The brilliant 18YO kid doing my website already has a SaaS company on the side. Time is on his side. LOL.

Ray Kroc discovered and made MacDonalds into mega success ... his kids were older than that. Seems like another limiting belief - age.
 

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Ray Kroc discovered and made MacDonalds into mega success ... his kids were older than that. Seems like another limiting belief - age.
Ray and Colonel Sanders are both striking examples of middle-aged late success. The reason they stand out is there are few people standing alongside them with walkers. I feel you're being a bit lofty and argumentative to make the point about personal beliefs. At some point - especially where age is involved - it rapidly starts to sound silly. It definitely sounds silly when you attach specific timeframes for contrived situations.

Silly, but sure: Why not have a 78YO starting pitcher for the Yankees?
Deluded: My 13YO daughter can be the starting pitcher on Opening Day 2023 for the NY Yankees.

In all fairness, there really is no bright line test to tell the difference between the two. All depends on motivation.
 
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I am not sure I follow. No competition in landscaping? Seems as saturated as it can be, lowest barrier to entry etc. Anyone with a lawn mower can get started.
That is true. It's one of the things I struggled to figure out for the CENTS framework. The barrier to entry is exceedingly low for getting started with lawn mowing and landscaping. However, I eventually realized it's exceedingly high for building out a national lawn care company with 100+ locations doing $1M+ each. It took time to identify all the roadblocks, figure out solutions and understand why only a few people have accomplished it.

The vast majority of the 600,000 lawn care companies are owner/operator with only a few dozen accounts because they're incapable of scaling. They lack vision, marketing expertise, technology, money and desire in varying degrees. The single biggest barrier by far is the lack of interest in solving the mission critical problem facing the industry (and all service industries really): recruiting, hiring, training and retaining field workers. It's viewed as a crap job and that's the talent pool it attracts.

In the end, I'm putting together a technology company that happens to be delivering lawn care services. All the marketing, scheduling, billing, recruiting, branding, communication, etc. systems are pulled directly from any technology startup playbook. Everything except field ops runs from a distributed online workforce managed with cloud apps. It's actually really similar to designing software. Just replace code with systems, people and equipment.

I'll start a process thread shortly. Been too buried in startup land to actually write about being in startup land.
 

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I feel you're being a bit lofty and argumentative to make the point about personal beliefs. At some point - especially where age is involved - it rapidly starts to sound silly.

Allow me to clarify - age in sports matters. Beauty of business is that in 10 years a person can go from literally zero $ to 8-9 figure net worth. Whether you are 19 or 49 matters far less than how you do it.

The reason why there are fewer examples of older (when starting out) successful entrepreneurs might be that beliefs become too sticky. After 50+ years of thinking you can’t … it harder to change your mind.

Good luck with the scaled version of lawn care. It’s typically a commodity service, how will you differentiate your offering? Let me know when you get that thread going.
 

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Could you launch the business today and expect the same outcome? What would be different?

I feel like if I'd done the same thing starting today I would struggle a bit more given the knowledge I had back then. I could spin up another company in my industry, find needs, and make just as much money if not more though given the knowledge, skill, drive, and connections I have. Instead of it taking 10 years from idea to fruition I could do it in 2.
 
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I've been wanting to do an AMA (Ask me anything) for a while. I've built a desktop software company worth 8 figures, but I'm aiming for $1 billion, not to be a unicorn, but just because I think its the natural progression of where I'm headed. I started the company in 2016 and I have 15 employees and I've never taken on investor money despite rejecting quite a few offers. In MJ's own words he thinks that my company will be the first 9 figure (hopefully 10 though) exit on the forum. I built everything from the ground up on the business end by myself. I brought on my initial founding partner with equity and a few initial employees with equity. I've had experience negotiating a multi-million dollar contract and building an entire IP from nothing which has seriously upset an industry as we came out of nowhere. We also follow profit first accounting methods and do quarterly dividends. I don't want to publicly name the company here but I'm happy to answer general business questions or give advice on situations you may be in.

I don't really believe in outsourcing cheap labor or paying/treating employees like dispensable objects. Everyone in my company makes a minimum of $80,000 a year, even if in their country it's perfectly acceptable that they're paid a fraction of what we pay them. I believe in treating both customers and employees as well as I possibly can in an effort to retain their strong talents.

Ask me anything about:

  • Managing employees and building a team
  • Subscription and permanent license based software
  • Bootstrapping your business & working on the biz while you have a day job
  • Dividend distributions and taking money out of your business
  • Building a successful software company, even if you can't code (I can't)
  • General business advice, mindset, etc
  • Anything that you feel you want to know about someone who's gotten as far as I have



If you know the company I run or my industry, please do not mention it in this thread. It is irrelevant, and if anything it's a harder industry to be in than most.
Any suggestion for books you have read to start a SAAS company with no coding knowledge? I too want to start a software myself and i doesnt know how to code. My current step now is learning coding. After reading about your post, wondering if i should stop the learning process and jump start to building the software by outsourcing.
 

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Any suggestion for books you have read to start a SAAS company with no coding knowledge? I too want to start a software myself and i doesnt know how to code. My current step now is learning coding. After reading about your post, wondering if i should stop the learning process and jump start to building the software by outsourcing.
Learning to code and learning to outsource are two entirely different skills that build on each other.

It's really difficult to outsource coding when you know nothing about it.

If you don't want to code, figure out that part first.
 

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