Why Can't We Change?

[Black_Dragon43]

And if his environment changes to back to what it was? It wouldn't be a lasting change if throwing yourself out of that environment would change you behavior again.

For example, surround me with party-goers and I won't change. I'll simply retreat.

I find it strange that despite all the adaptability we have as human beings, we aren't really that easily adaptable to such little things, let alone the big ones.

Yes, that’s why I said that the change must be enforced in the beginning. Someone has to force you to do those things. If you can run away or retreat you’d be breaking the process, which is exactly how people behave as adults, which is why most don’t change.

I’d be much the same if placed amongst the party goers. But that’s because I’m now an adult - and I can make my own choices. As a kid though, you can’t do that. Your family is going to a party, you don’t want to go, tough luck, you’re going! Friends are coming over for a party? You don’t want that? Tough luck, you have nowhere to go!

The environment and your identity are self-reinforcing. By the time a new identity has crystalized, your environment is quite entrenched, to the point that you’ll fight to defend it. So once that change is achieved, you’ve presumably cut ties completely with your old environment.

Think of someone leaving drugs or a life of crime behind. To be successful, they get rid of all their old friends, acquaintances, places they used to go to, everything!

After that, they will defend against that environment ever trying to creep back in.

For me it's just because I don't work well with other people and wouldn't want to have such a lifestyle. But then the question is: why am I so loyal to these values? Maybe writing comes easy to me but maybe this would also come easy. I've never tried so I can't tell with certainty.

You’re loyal to those values because it’s part of your identity. Part of how you’ve been conditioned.

If you hadn’t been successful with self-publishing initially, maybe necessity would have conditioned you differently. Same if you grew up in a different family or in a different culture.

The same is true for me. Imagine the first time I tried my hand as a teenager at making money by selling services online I wouldn’t have made any… then I wouldn’t have gone into this fulltime after college, I wouldn’t have developed the skillset I did, and likely I wouldn’t be doing any consulting/coaching today. It’s all tied together.

Sometimes you wonder if your biggest successes aren’t also your biggest chains. What could you have achieved had you failed?

Similarly, you can't tell that a different business model wouldn't come easy to you.

There are stories of people who tried something for the first time and quickly realized that somehow they're much better at it than others. Nims Purja comes to mind. He had never climbed any big mountains in his life and suddenly became one of the greatest at it.

Yes that’s true… but, if this occurs later in life, it’s usually related to something they’ve done or had experience in before.

Nims Purja - he may not have climbed big mountains BUT he was familiar with living off very scarce resources (his family was very poor), he was used to pain and struggle (practicing kickboxing), and used to discipline and managing one’s environment (military experience). So he had most of the skills required for success in climbing already. It’s normal that it would come natural to him.

 

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[heavy_industry]

As I mentioned in my reply to Andy, I posted this thread because I've been thinking about this recently in general (why people pick certain roles and never change them).

Every thought and action that you perform fires electricity through neurologic pathways in your brain. If you do something repeatedly, the pathways associated with that behavior get better electrical insulation, therefore the signal propagates faster and with greater accuracy.

Your personality is made out of a huge collection of such patterns of thinking and behavior. Early life experiences are very important, because they are the starting point of the patterns. But with enough time and effort, almost anything can be overwritten - the brain is highly adaptive throughout our life.

What is the price we have to pay in order to change? Death.
The "you" that you've created in your head doesn't want to change - it wants to stay the same. The only way of moving forward is to let the old self die. And it's going to be a painful process, because the old you will scream in agony.

That's why people don't change. Because it is hard, painful, and frightening to step into the unknown.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUywkaYTQ8Y&ab_channel=Bite-sizedPhilosophy

 

[fastlane_dad]

Sometimes I feel that once we start playing some kind of a role in our lives, we can't ever change it. In a way, we start behaving as programmed NPCs in some game who always say and do the same things, always to be found in the same places, never questioning their path.

Why is it so hard to change this? What's blocking us so much that we can't change ourselves even if we hate our situation or simply want to try something else?

For example, imagine that you're a shy, insecure, non-confrontational guy who's always ignored. You wish you were confident. You wish you could speak your mind and be respected. Yet, years go by and you're still that same guy. What's blocking that person?

Or let's imagine you're this responsible, dependable but ultimately boring guy who has no excitement in his life. You wish you could be more adventurous and spontaneous but your rational side can't let it happen. Why is it so hard to do something out of your character, even once?

Or let's imagine that you're stuck in your home town, living a satisfying (from the outside) life. Yet you feel dead inside. You wish you could change it and reinvent yourself. Why is it so difficult to leave the stuff that you hate anyway and do something new?

Why do we get stuck with the same unsatisfying job/business, relationship, place where we live, character, etc.?

Why do we feel this need to keep repeating the same behaviors, even if we're fully aware that we hate our life and want something else?

I know that for some roles there are physiological reasons as well. An obese person may have a f*cked up body that acts against them. Same for a smoker or a junkie.

But for most roles in our lives, there's no clear physical reason why we can't change them. So why is it so hard to do that?

I feel like I changed 'roles' many times in my life.

Role as a supportive son for my family helping out with finances as immigrants to the USA, where every penny counted
Role as a student through 12 + 6 years of schooling, acquiring a professional degree
Role as an engineer for several years
Role as a weekend partier consuming bottomless redbull vodkas
Role as packing up my sh*t and moving 2K miles away to sunnier pastures
Role as an entrepreneur for 20+ years building up / selling a business
Role as a husband, and now currently a dad
Role as a semi-retired entrepreneur currently, transitioning to trying different business models and work then I have done the last 20+ years

I feel that many people go through various degrees of the same.

Sure my temperament and personality have remained relatively the same.

I have even LESS desire to do anything today I don't strictly wanna do , due to being financially independent, and the role of 'family and dad role' overtaking the majority of my TIME and VALUES currently.

It is much harder for me to deviate to being a SURFER BOY IN HAWAII, or a WEEKEND BINGE PARTIER, or a HARD CHARGING TRAVELING CEO currently, due to my obligations, responsibilities and 'duty obligation' personality.

So what else is left?

Almost all the habits in my life daily I do because I believe all of them are beneficial to me or I enjoy them, otherwise I don't believe I would be doing them.

Any motivation for me NOW to 'change' would be a marked perceiving of me getting something 'better' - either in the present or in the future. So much philosophy then ensues - of what COULD even these betters be?

Many of them seem like better on the surface, but I don't fully 'believe' they would add to my life (i.e. 6% bodyfat, 6 pack, 100 Million dollars, stable full of exotics, 12K square foot house, etc).

For every 'better' I can dream of, I immediately rebut it with a list of CONS I would not want that come with it, so very little is left for me to aspire to a different 'better' (although I try going through the exercises in my mind hard daily).

So yes - at the end of the day, some of my values / beliefs and 'ROLE' that I play now is getting more solidified with each day (primarily due to an increasing load and role of responsibilities I chose to put onto myself).

It is this responsibility and commitment that bring value, purpose and enjoyment to my life. Sure - more adventure and 'spontaneous' sounds sexy and appealing (and what the media sells) - but there is a REAL PRICE TO PAY for any and all of those actions, that is too high of a price given my obligations.

I believe I chose my 'betters' daily and will continue doing so until my beliefs or values change to significantly alter that. I make a daily commitment to choosing to be an entrepreneur. I make a commitment daily to be good dad and a great spouse. I choose to do a daily hour of exercise to keep my body and mind healthy. I chose to eat clean purposely to ensure I live a long and healthy life. I limit my alcohol intake because I don't see a clear benefit or a 'better' to having more then a glass of wine a night (if that). I pursue my hobbies because I enjoy those hobbies and the connections it brings me.

But I never had the lack of 'courage' or 'action' to change to get what I wanted out of life.

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@MTF Is there something you 'desire' that you don't seem to have the capability of changing for? Or adapting? Or trying?

Maybe the degree of change you are talking about is scales larger then I illustrated above?

 

[Antifragile]

Not at all and you are definitely NOT an average person.

I apologize if my wording was confusing. I'll use myself as an example to avoid further misunderstandings.

Objectively speaking, I'm successful now. But I've settled into a narrowly-defined role, a routine of doing the same things that reflect my character. I'm a very predictable person with some painfully frustrating at times qualities.

I don't feel like I differ much from a person who doesn't have such a "successful" life. Both of us are following some kind of a programming, without breaking out of character.

Hate to break it to you, but you have little in common with the "can't leave the basement" guy. You did the exact opposite of following programming to achieve your current status. By any definition, you are in the successful minority group. I expect you don't do drugs, aren't lazy, don't weigh 300kg while watching "American Football" and complaining about quarterbacks being "lazy" etc. Look, who we as society see as unsuccessful is easy to describe!

Yes, maybe according to some standards my life is "better" than the life of the basement guy. But just as he is trapped as a basement guy, I'm trapped as a writer/solopreneur lone wolf guy.

F*ck. Your life is infinitely better!

No, you are not trapped. You made a lot of money being a writer. Feedback mechanism taught you "it's good to be a great writer, it'll set you up for life". Now you are learning that the world for writers has changed on you. Let's use a wolf analogy (I love wolves as animals). A hungry wolf finds a reliable source of food, he's now well fed. He sees the same place where he had all this food now doesn't have the food. He's not hungry yet but thinks he needs a new source. Problem is... he stashed some food and is not in a hurry. Now suddenly he thinks he is no different than a hungry wolf. F*ck no. He is well fed with reserves. He's not hungry. His life is infinitely better.

My question is: why do we have such a strong need to stay in this character for our entire life?

Why not? Your character got you a lot of success. As they say "if its not broken, why fix it?". If you were living in your parent's place, bitching to your mom about food being not as tasty as restaurant and to your dad for lack of wealth to just give it to you... then we'd be talking "WTF?! Get your a$$ in gear!" But that's not you.

From Friends show:
Chandler : Oh, I know, this must be so hard. "Oh no, two women love me. They're both gorgeous and sexy. My wallet's too small for my fifties AND MY DIAMOND SHOES ARE TOO TIGHT."

How do I know that this is really the "best" version of me if I always stay faithful to my decided some time ago role in life? I keep making improvements here and there but they're improvements of a few percent, consistent with that narrowly defined role.

First of all, we never achieve the "best" version of ourselves. That's life. Get over it. We continue to improve but to think you can achieve the "best" means there is finality to your ability to improve. There isn't. Not in life as a whole. Maybe in a narrow sports field but not in life.

Can you imagine living a life where one day you decided "I'll now be an introvert" and shut down all communication with friends who knew you as the "life of the party!" just a year ago? That whiplash effect would be devastating. No one would want the ability to change over and over like that.

How about your loved ones? Can you imagine your relatives, closest people to you not see your for a year and suddenly instead of a balanced predictably reliable person, a Wolf of Wallstreet is here to get their money.

I plan to do something out of my character but it's damn painful and feels almost like fighting against gravity. That's strange to me. What is this force and why do most humans pick a role and keep playing it for the rest of their lives?

That's the thing. If the role you speak of was a useless lard alcoholic thief ruining your family... then we should be asking this very question. But for good people, it is about incremental improvements, not drastic changes. I bet you aren't the exact same person you were 5 years ago. You are true to your core, but still not the same person. Core being hard working, reliable, successful. And no, the grass is not greener on the other side.

/eclectic thoughts

 

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[Kevin88660]

Sometimes I feel that once we start playing some kind of a role in our lives, we can't ever change it. In a way, we start behaving as programmed NPCs in some game who always say and do the same things, always to be found in the same places, never questioning their path.

Why is it so hard to change this? What's blocking us so much that we can't change ourselves even if we hate our situation or simply want to try something else?

For example, imagine that you're a shy, insecure, non-confrontational guy who's always ignored. You wish you were confident. You wish you could speak your mind and be respected. Yet, years go by and you're still that same guy. What's blocking that person?

Or let's imagine you're this responsible, dependable but ultimately boring guy who has no excitement in his life. You wish you could be more adventurous and spontaneous but your rational side can't let it happen. Why is it so hard to do something out of your character, even once?

Or let's imagine that you're stuck in your home town, living a satisfying (from the outside) life. Yet you feel dead inside. You wish you could change it and reinvent yourself. Why is it so difficult to leave the stuff that you hate anyway and do something new?

Maybe you do not want to change badly enough?

These are very subjective description like “getting confident” or “reinvent yourself”. It is not even clear to me that they are beneficial.

It is not like if you want an exact behavior change, waking up early or speak to five more strangers per day to train social and conversational skill.

Why do we get stuck with the same unsatisfying job/business, relationship, place where we live, character, etc.?

Why do we feel this need to keep repeating the same behaviors, even if we're fully aware that we hate our life and want something else?

Relationship without exception is the real or perceived lack of other option/alternative.

You hate your boss but you need to pay the bill, for example.

Poor effort and poor planning. But easier said than done to be in a stage of having “plenty of good options” in life. If you have no cards to play you got to call it a pass.

Having the ability to take other people’s shit is also an essential skill, especially when you are nobody having no resources at the start. You just have to calculate which cards you need to accumulate and whose shits you have to eat for the time being.

I don’t think that is the case for you MTF, but for people 90 percent of the time if they are stuck in an unhappy relationship is due to a lack of options.

 

[Kevin88660]

As I mentioned in my reply to Andy, I posted this thread because I've been thinking about this recently in general (why people pick certain roles and never change them).

On a more personal level, there are some aspects of my personality I want to change but that I don't really want to discuss on a public forum. The one I can share is that I'm a very non-confrontational person and it has landed me in trouble or generated a lot of frustration. Yet, I can't seem to change it. I find myself blocked when I try to be assertive.

I see it as a skill based and experience based problem rather than a personality based problem.

The art of saying no diplomatically, in short.

Every scenario is different but you are not the first person in the world to have faced it.

The most common issue is what to do when someone close enough to you borrow money from you.

I learnt it with life experience with financial cost as well that, If I lend out the money there is no possibility of getting it back.

People who have no problem with money do not borrow. People who borrow have no means to pay back.

Lending out money with expectation of wanting it back will further damage the relationship in additional to financial loss. He or she will hate you for chasing back your own money.

I have the excuse standby today, that my money is “trapped in crypto and stocks”.

 

[socaldude]

We usually look at this from the perspective of changing from bad to good. But none of us would want to go from good to bad. There’s a clue there as to why change is hard.

You wouldn’t wanna wake up tomorrow with some addiction or mental illness. Changing in an instant.

Change or re-configuration requieres not only interdiction in an occurrent sense but retro diction as well. We need to go back and re contextualize our past patterns of behavior and our psychological casual trajectory.

 

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[MTF]

I think you need something like a strong WHY or FTE to get on the path to change, then your habits over time make it easier. I don't think you'd ever go back to being the person you was. How far you can change is infinite.

I was actually thinking about you and your recent post from another thread:

Same here mate. I actually read through some of my old posts in this forum from like 5 years ago and nothing has changed. Seen my old Facebook post in memories the other day from 11 years ago saying Can't stand these dark nights, roll on January for our next holiday. And that's still exactly the case now.

The good thing is I know why nothing has changed. Too much reading, too much spending time on this forum looking at posts that don't solve my immediate problem. Not enough action, not enough prospecting to find new clients for my business.

Would you say that your why isn't strong enough for you to finally make the move? Because in theory it isn't as complicated as you make it to be and you're clearly suffering a lot by living in the UK.

 

[MTF]

Can you give us a scenario?

Some people in my social circle have terrible conversational habits. They interrupt me, don't let me finish my sentences, or try to one-up my story instead of responding to it. It's been very frustrating.

But I can't find it in myself to tell them how annoying it is because I don't want the confrontation. I just tell myself that I prefer peace and it's not like it's a super important person in my life anyway.

I also have friends who I know much better and I still can't tell them when they're being annoying. Maybe because I know that I'm most likely annoying at times as well so it's kind of hypocritical to tell them that. But it ultimately leads to less and less satisfying relationships until I see friends just a few times a year because I don't feel good talking with them.

And just to clarify: this isn't everyone, just specific people. Talking with someone without these habits is reinvigorating.

I don't find this frustrating.

I even came across a way of thinking that helped me:

Whenever you have the urge to do something that's a distraction, then take note... that's your lizard brain panicking that you're about to do something that will move you forward. Use that urge as a signal NOT to get distracted.

Your status-quo seeking lizard brain is now an asset and friend. It can tell better than you what your next step should be.

(Take with a pinch of salt. I see this more to make use of the emotional part of us that may hold us back.)

The worst example of this: you're in a relationship but your animal side can't stop looking at other women. It makes you feel the fear of missing out, even if you logically know that you can't simply judge people by their appearance.

 

[MTF]

I believe you have to feel comfortable breaking out of old patterns. I break out of stuff every year since I understand nothing stays the same long-term.

Unless it's too personal, can you give any examples of breaking out of your old patterns every year?

 

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[MTF]

So my answer would be why are you attached to (have respect for, are comfortable with) being peaceful more than being attached to speaking truth.

Is speaking truth pointless or less worthy than keeping a peaceful, albeit shallower, level of communication?

Peace of mind is one of the most important values in my life. So yes, I guess I prefer a peaceful, shallower level of communication than a potential fight and an awkward situation.

I know that it makes no sense logically but I'm this kind of a guy who thinks that even a single confrontation inevitably destroys the relationship. I always find it strange that people can fight (sometimes violently) and then still be in a relationship or stay friends.

The only time I confronted a friend because I was dead tired of his behavior was the moment our friendship died. We still talk to this day and sometimes see each other but very rarely.

 

[MTF]

Sometimes you wonder if your biggest successes aren’t also your biggest chains. What could you have achieved had you failed?

That's a great way to put it and something I alluded to earlier when I asked: "How do you know that the role you're playing now is really the best you can do?"

I succeeded as an introverted writer. But what if I could be much more successful (and feel more satisfied, too), if I were, say, a music producer like Calvin Harris? Not that I delude myself that I could replicate his success lol.

 

[MTF]

Every thought and action that you perform fires electricity through neurologic pathways in your brain. If you do something repeatedly, the pathways associated with that behavior get better electrical insulation, therefore the signal propagates faster and with greater accuracy.

Your personality is made out of a huge collection of such patterns of thinking and behavior. Early life experiences are very important, because they are the starting point of the patterns. But with enough time and effort, almost anything can be overwritten - the brain is highly adaptive throughout our life.

Assuming that's real science, that's a nice rational response to my question that makes most sense. In other words, we keep playing the same character because it's just the easiest thing to do for our brains.

 

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[MTF]

Many of them seem like better on the surface, but I don't fully 'believe' they would add to my life (i.e. 6% bodyfat, 6 pack, 100 Million dollars, stable full of exotics, 12K square foot house, etc).

For every 'better' I can dream of, I immediately rebut it with a list of CONS I would not want that come with it, so very little is left for me to aspire to a different 'better' (although I try going through the exercises in my mind hard daily).

Can't we come with a list of cons for every single improvement in life? How can we trust when we have legitimate cons and when they're just rationalizations?

For example, let's say that I could decide to run an ultramarathon. But then I tell myself that I don't believe it would add to my life. In fact, it could wreck it with a terrible injury, a huge time commitment, etc. But how do I know that these are legitimate justifications and not just nicely wrapped excuses?

It is this responsibility and commitment that bring value, purpose and enjoyment to my life. Sure - more adventure and 'spontaneous' sounds sexy and appealing (and what the media sells) - but there is a REAL PRICE TO PAY for any and all of those actions, that is too high of a price given my obligations.

To clarify first: this isn't targeted specifically at you, it's more of a general question.

What if what you wrote isn't true but it's just an excuse because you're too lazy to change?

For example, I can say "There's a real price to pay for being more adventurous" and use it as an excuse to keep living my boring, predictable life.

Richard Branson kept cultivating his adventurous spirit despite being a father and husband. So there are examples of people who show that it's possible to have both things.

@MTF Is there something you 'desire' that you don't seem to have the capability of changing for? Or adapting? Or trying?

Maybe the degree of change you are talking about is scales larger then I illustrated above?

I would say probably the biggest one is my inability to become a dick. I'm only half-joking. I like being nice and helpful but it feels like it's not giving me the results that people who don't give a F*ck get. I always put the needs of others above mine and rarely state what I want, feeling that my needs don't matter.

It has gotten to such an extreme level that I feel more loyal toward someone I have only a loose relationship with than to my own plans and goals. For example, I may have a hard time ending a relationship with a coach. I had a fitness coach for over a year, even though most of the time he didn't really do his job and didn't help me get the results I was after (in fact, I ended up with one of the worst injuries in my life). It took me many months and a good, accumulated over months, list of excuses to finally end this relationship, and I still felt awkward about it.

A few years ago I read No More Mr. Nice Guy which talks about this syndrome. Maybe I need to read it again for some fresh ideas.

 

[MTF]

Why not? Your character got you a lot of success. As they say "if its not broken, why fix it?".

Yet we don't use the same reasoning when we want to improve our lives. You may tweak your workout plan even if it's not broken. You may try adding or removing things in your everyday routine. And so on. Yet we don't test our characters the same way.

Can you imagine living a life where one day you decided "I'll now be an introvert" and shut down all communication with friends who knew you as the "life of the party!" just a year ago? That whiplash effect would be devastating. No one would want the ability to change over and over like that.

Michele Graglia's book Ultra: Top Model to Top Ultra Runner is basically about that. He went from that crazy party-going handsome model guy to a "boring" (and probably very stinky) ultra-athlete. He seemed to be very satisfied with his decision.

But for good people, it is about incremental improvements, not drastic changes.

Okay, the way you put it in that post makes sense. I tend to go extreme in life and don't really see the incremental improvements as something as valuable as a drastic change.

 

[MTF]

I don’t think that is the case for you MTF, but for people 90 percent of the time if they are stuck in an unhappy relationship is due to a lack of options.

You may have options but feel loyalty to a certain person. And because you're a nice guy, you don't want to hurt them. It can apply to your boss, coach, partner, friend, or anyone else.

I see it as a skill based and experience based problem rather than a personality based problem.

The art of saying no diplomatically, in short.

You may develop the skill but still be incapable of using it because of how you're wired. For example, a calm, peaceful guy who gets into martial arts is still extremely unlikely to use it on anyone else, even in a heated situation. Meanwhile, a street hoodlum won't have such issues, even if he doesn't have the skills.

 

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[MTF]

We usually look at this from the perspective of changing from bad to good. But none of us would want to go from good to bad. There’s a clue there as to why change is hard.

You wouldn’t wanna wake up tomorrow with some addiction or mental illness. Changing in an instant.

Change or re-configuration requieres not only interdiction in an occurrent sense but retro diction as well. We need to go back and re contextualize our past patterns of behavior and our psychological casual trajectory.

I'm pretty sure that if I were to try drugs, I'd become a drug addict on that same day. So at least some change can be instant, due to a specific aspect of your personality (in this case, an addictive personality).

 

[Antifragile]

Yet we don't use the same reasoning when we want to improve our lives. You may tweak your workout plan even if it's not broken. You may try adding or removing things in your everyday routine. And so on. Yet we don't test our characters the same way.



Michele Graglia's book Ultra: Top Model to Top Ultra Runner is basically about that. He went from that crazy party-going handsome model guy to a "boring" (and probably very stinky) ultra-athlete. He seemed to be very satisfied with his decision.

Thanks to you, I know the book very well. And think you misinterpreted it. One could argue that he was deeply unhappy being a model because it didn’t align with his value system. The change wasn’t as dramatic as seems on the surface - he was briefly a model by accident… then went back being consistent with his values.

Okay, the way you put it in that post makes sense. I tend to go extreme in life and don't really see the incremental improvements as something as valuable as a drastic change.

That to me is like comparing winning $1,000,000 lottery VS earning $1,000,000 in your business. One is immediate, the other is typically slower. But businesses can repeat that 100x with incremental improvements… same with life.

Good thought provoking thread. Hope you find your answers.

 

[Mattie]

Unless it's too personal, can you give any examples of breaking out of your old patterns every year?

This year, i basically changed the influence of those around me. As i did meet one friend, that is a bit more influential in publishing, writing, art, music, and literature. It's new eyes, a new perspective, and taking myself a specific environment and did place myself in another environment. As what i focus on, the environment, the people that influence me typically does affect whether I am moving forward.

I have been learning more about Graphic Arts since the beginning of the year. i am learning about Barnes and Noble and trying a new platform. I am breaking out of the self-limiting beliefs about what i would normally write.

i do not have a problem with weeding out what is not working. While it's tough choices sometimes, it's where you have to evaluate what is having a cause and effect on your success.

Sometimes it can just be a different platform, different audience, different environment, different people influencing your life.

it is evaluating what is working and not working and doing something different.

This is just what I've always done. I don't worry about where other people are doing.

 

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[Andy Black]

Some people in my social circle have terrible conversational habits. They interrupt me, don't let me finish my sentences, or try to one-up my story instead of responding to it. It's been very frustrating.

But I can't find it in myself to tell them how annoying it is because I don't want the confrontation. I just tell myself that I prefer peace and it's not like it's a super important person in my life anyway.

I just allow folks like that to chatter how they want. I don't think that's being non-confrontational. It's not my role to teach people manners who are old enough to know better. I won't go out of my way to meet them again.

I also have friends who I know much better and I still can't tell them when they're being annoying. Maybe because I know that I'm most likely annoying at times as well so it's kind of hypocritical to tell them that. But it ultimately leads to less and less satisfying relationships until I see friends just a few times a year because I don't feel good talking with them.

And just to clarify: this isn't everyone, just specific people. Talking with someone without these habits is reinvigorating.

Again, I don't try to change people. There's so many people in the world. Why not just make friends with the people you love chatting to the way they are and where you're comfortable being yourself? I don't think I'm non-confrontational, just pragmatic. It's like the phrase "sales is a screening process". Friendship is the same.

The worst example of this: you're in a relationship but your animal side can't stop looking at other women. It makes you feel the fear of missing out, even if you logically know that you can't simply judge people by their appearance.

Personally, I think your animal side can stop looking or people (should) have enough self-control to stop.

 

[MTF]

Thanks to you, I know the book very well. And think you misinterpreted it. One could argue that he was deeply unhappy being a model because it didn’t align with his value system. The change wasn’t as dramatic as seems on the surface - he was briefly a model by accident… then went back being consistent with his values.

You may be right because he writes:

At first, I was still tied to my old values, so I was always the one to say, “No, no, no…” But then, the whole thing finally overwhelmed me. That lifestyle makes you lose touch with reality. You’re floating in a bubble on an idyllic tropical island where it’s always summer, and you’re in shorts and a T-shirt—or without even that—every single day.

Waking up late (because you partied until dawn), you start to get ready. If there’s a shoot, you do the shoot; otherwise, you drop in at the agency to say hi or go to a few castings. I was constantly on the move, usually cruising down on my longboard.

And then this:

That first year had been a blast, but I still tried to remain true to the values I’d been raised with. Yeah, sure, we went out and drank and partied, but it was always fairly under control up until that moment. The others did their thing, but not me. I didn’t smoke. I didn’t do anything, really. I resisted because throughout my childhood, my group of friends and I were raised by parents who went out of their way to protect family values and keep a healthy lifestyle. I’d left home at nineteen, but I lived a mile down the road from my parents. Even when I worked, I’d always go back home to my mother’s for lunch. Then I moved to Miami and stepped into this razzle-dazzle world.

And here I was.

This birthday party marked my entry into the wild. I let go of the reins and took off. And for almost a year, I lived a thousand miles an hour.

That to me is like comparing winning $1,000,000 lottery VS earning $1,000,000 in your business. One is immediate, the other is typically slower. But businesses can repeat that 100x with incremental improvements… same with life.

That's a good way to put it.

 

[MTF]

I just allow folks like that to chatter how they want. I don't that's being non-confrontational. It's not my role to teach people manners who are old enough to know better. I won't go out of my way to meet them again.

What if that's just a rationalization to avoid the confrontation? I'm saying that because that's how I would tend to answer this as well. As in: it's not my job to teach others how to communicate.

Again, I don't try to change people. There's so many people in the world. Why not just make friends with the people you love chatting to the way they are and where you're comfortable being yourself? I don't think I'm non-confrontational, just pragmatic. It's like the phrase "sales is a screening process". Friendship is the same.

Sometimes the only option you have is that person. For example, if you really want to learn how to play golf and there's only one guy in your city who's teaching it (and he's a good teacher but a poor conversationalist), then you either not learn golf or end up in a situation like this.

And yes, I know there may be other options like driving to another city or learning by yourself but they aren't optimal.

Or maybe that's even your family member who you don't want to cut out of your life.

All I want to say is that sometimes you can't avoid dealing with such a person.

Personally, I think your animal side can stop looking or people (should) have enough self-control to stop.

A lot of scientific research went into this and as far as I know the conclusion is that it's impossible not to look. Yeah, maybe you can stop, but it's completely natural and unavoidable to want to look. Or at least I don't know anyone who doesn't feel the same way. Maybe there are people living in fairytale relationships who never do that but I have never met anyone like that.

 

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[Andy Black]

What if that's just a rationalization to avoid the confrontation? I'm saying that because that's how I would tend to answer this as well. As in: it's not my job to teach others how to communicate.

It's not a rationalisation. I'll stand up if I want to.

Sometimes the only option you have is that person. For example, if you really want to learn how to play golf and there's only one guy in your city who's teaching it (and he's a good teacher but a poor conversationalist), then you either not learn golf or end up in a situation like this.

I'd bring it up somehow, or ignore it.

If it's a family member I let it pass. I don't see that as being non-confrontational. It doesn't bother me enough to bring it up.

Maybe there are people living in fairytale relationships who never do that but I have never met anyone like that.

Why does it have to be a fairytale relationship? I'll see/notice an attractive lady but I'm not turning my head. I presume they're tired of being ogled. Anyway, that's going off topic.


I don't feel I'm helping as I can't visualise what's happening.

What's the golf instructor doing and why is it bothering you? Do you want to say something but can't bring yourself, or don't know how?

If I thought he was being rude to me I'd speak up. If he was just a poor conversationalist then I'd not.

 

[heavy_industry]

Assuming that's real science, that's a nice rational response to my question that makes most sense. In other words, we keep playing the same character because it's just the easiest thing to do for our brains.

Here's an interesting video on habits and how the brain needs to physically change in order to learn / change behavior:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls_VFIU1Dv4&ab_channel=WhatI%27veLearned

 

[MTF]

What's the golf instructor doing and why is it bothering you? Do you want to say something but can't bring yourself, or don't know how?

If I thought he was being rude to me I'd speak up. If he was just a poor conversationalist then I'd not.

If you're in the middle of telling a story and a person interrupts you with their own story and don't let you finish yours, is it being rude or being a poor conversationalist?

If that happens repeatedly to the point that you know that you won't be allowed to say more than one or two sentences before being interrupted so you rush your sentences, it gets really frustrating really fast.

Coming back to the topic of this thread: a non-confrontational person like me will get really frustrated in such a situation but won't tell anything and instead suffer in silence. Then the same pattern repeats for any other problem similar to that and you end up resentful and perhaps even sabotaging your relationships. Yet, still, you can't act against your character and simply, as a rational human being, voice your displeasure.

 

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[Simon Angel]

If you're in the middle of telling a story and a person interrupts you with their own story and don't let you finish yours, is it being rude or being a poor conversationalist?

If that happens repeatedly to the point that you know that you won't be allowed to say more than one or two sentences before being interrupted so you rush your sentences, it gets really frustrating really fast.

Coming back to the topic of this thread: a non-confrontational person like me will get really frustrated in such a situation but won't tell anything and instead suffer in silence. Then the same pattern repeats for any other problem similar to that and you end up resentful and perhaps even sabotaging your relationships. Yet, still, you can't act against your character and simply, as a rational human being, voice your displeasure.

I think it just comes down to you trying it. Might be more uncomfortable for you than skydiving (something I don't have the balls to do) or hiking 50000 zillion miles with a heavy rucksack on, but what do you have to lose? You only have to gain - especially when it comes to respect.

I've had quite a few instances where people interrupted me before I finished talking. Friends, relatives, girlfriend, girlfriend's dad, clients, etc. If it happened like ONCE and out of sheer enthusiasm or something, I just let it slide. But if it happens twice or more times - I just tell them "Hey, I'm not done talking, let me finish".

However, I've had people not get the memo, unfortunately, and when that happens I just talk over them until they stop interrupting me - and I usually avoid talking to them at all from that point onwards.

 

[Paul David]

I was actually thinking about you and your recent post from another thread:



Would you say that your why isn't strong enough for you to finally make the move? Because in theory it isn't as complicated as you make it to be and you're clearly suffering a lot by living in the UK.

I have a strong internal why but factors outside my control make it not as strong. For example my wife wouldn’t move whilst kids were still of school age (12 and 14) and she said my business would need to be more financially stable. (This I can control)

So we’re talking at least another 6-8 years before they leave school. Which seems like a long time away.

If I was single right now with no kids, I’d move to Dubai for winter then back to Spain when it starts getting warm maybe May time.

 

[Kevin88660]

You may have options but feel loyalty to a certain person. And because you're a nice guy, you don't want to hurt them. It can apply to your boss, coach, partner, friend, or anyone else.



You may develop the skill but still be incapable of using it because of how you're wired. For example, a calm, peaceful guy who gets into martial arts is still extremely unlikely to use it on anyone else, even in a heated situation. Meanwhile, a street hoodlum won't have such issues, even if he doesn't have the skills.

It perhaps comes down to your value system.

No one really wants to do something that they deeply believe that it is wrong.

From my pov I agree with being non-confrontional, because walking away applies to 95 percent of the situation.

If you beat up a street hoodlum you probably gets a fine in court and end up paying his medical bill. There is nothing winnable in a street fight. The winner gets a fine and loser ends up in hospital. The court decides whether your self defense argument is valid. Most stares and street nonsense don’t end up in real fights. And hooligans pick on weaker and small targets always. Having a pending court case interrupting your life for 1-2 years is a big no no..

Walking away from someone closer to you is indeed tricky and a hard decision. In my culture the question to ask yourself is have you contributed enough back to the person an amount that far exceeds what he or she has helped you before. If you are quite sure that you don’t have a “net debt” in favor that you have provided value 2-3x cumulatively than what you have received from the person, and carrying on the relationship will continue to drain you, then it is time to call for a stop.

You need to find your own moral compass to guide you.

 

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[MaximilianT]

Seems like you wanted to get feedback/praise on your progress recently and you didn't get any.

Do you see any "change" in David Goggins in recent years? I don't but I think David sees it for sure.

Beside it, I am sure you don't need to change character for further grow like David didn't change.

I would disagree because especially in business personal development is as essential as the development and growth of the company itself. There is a major difference in mindset and stuff between a millionaire, a multimillionaire and a billionaire and everything above.

 

[BizyDad]

Random thoughts on MTF's comments in this thread.

why do most humans pick a role

Most people don't choose their life. Most people are not captains of their ship. Most people takes the path of least resistance, do not question or think critically and thus most people have their life and roles thrust on them.

Yet, still, you can't act against your character and simply, as a rational human being, voice your displeasure.

MTF, for all his "logic" is also one of these types of people. He does think critically, just not critically enough. He often blames outside influences or an adherence to "peace of mind" or "character" for his "inability" to assert himself.

But one can disagree, one can call someone annoying, and still have peace of mind.

For example, if you define yourself as a great parent, you'll be unlikely to take risks as that will go against being responsible.

Because MTF sees himself as stuck, he says stuff like this and it sounds true to him. But plenty of great parents take risks and do irresponsible things. A critical thinker should be able to spot the over-generalization.

Just casually scrolling through the thread and seeing paragraph after paragraph written by MTF. I wonder if maybe there is a reason why some people feel the need to interrupt. A lot of words being typed to say many of the same points with different words.

Anyways, personally, I come from a family of interrupters. If you don't interrupt, and loudly, you probably won't ever get a word in.

In my family, this is just accepted and no one considers it rude. Instead we assume that if you didn't fight hard enough to voice what you think or what you believe, then it must not have been all that important. I mean, sure, it was important to you, but if you feel all butt hurt about it you are the only one who can fix that problem by fighting for what you believe.

I married into a family of polar opposites. So I have a better appreciation now for how the other half lives. I understand how nice it can be for people to wait their turn to speak and everyone can go on for 5 or 10 minutes at a time without fear of being cut off.

And frankly, I don't know that one is any better than the other. These are two opposite ends of a spectrum and the real world is a mix of both.

But I stand by the notion that this thread is chock full of a whole lot of whining, overthinking, passivity, and lack of personal responsibility. And these are not words I would normally ascribe to MTF, so I decided to chime in.

If you don't like your life, change it. You know what you need to do to change it. You just don't wanna.

And because your crazy limbic system is scared of confrontation, your logical brain has constructed all these pithy, truthy sounding excuses for why you "can't" do anything about it.

Even your allegedly valuing of peace of mind above all is a fallacy because you feel resentment. Resentment and peace of mind cannot coexist.

So why aren't you speaking up? Fear?

As I see it, and I say this with respect, you simply don't want to accept the responsibility for changing because you are full of fear. I'm not sure if you are afraid of losing people, of facing their judgment, of facing your own judgement, or what.

And you can keep typing till the cows come home, but it won't do no good until you face your fears and speak up. Sure, you'll screw up at first, and get egg on your face. But if you don't give up, through trial and error, you'll realize that there are perfectly healthy, maybe even fun, ways of speaking up which still leave you with a sense of peace of mind. And it can even make your relationships stronger.

Most people don't want to choose. They want to be told. They want to be led. Your introverted self doesn't want to responsibility of leading anyone, hence all (most?) of your projects only rely on you. Ok, but your choices have consequences and I've skimmed 3 pages of you not liking the consequences.

Lastly, speaking as someone who eaten crow too many times to count, I'd suggest you are missing out on one key piece of life, and that is the act of humbling yourself after you have screwed up, and owning the mess up.

My friendships get so much stronger when new people see that I am not afraid to screw up and I am not too proud to learn from my mistake.

People start getting really honest with me in return. And I love it.

And my old friends will often tease me in a group, but privately thank me for saying the things that everyone knew needed to be said but everyone was too afraid to say it. And I don't stress over it or lose peace of mind over it because I like "being that guy".

Lastly, I have recently (the last 2-3 years) been experimenting with keeping my mouth shut and the results have been eye opening. I plan on writing a post about it someday soonish. So I'm learning I like being the guy who keeps his mouth shut too.

Today, if I allow someone to interrupt me, it is a conscious decision, and I don't feel resentful. Since I know I am capable of talking over anybody, I just don't need to do that all the time anymore, thus I feel like a more grace filled human being by keeping my mouth shut.

But I still wouldn't say, nor would those who know me say that my character is that of "keeping my mouth shut". I am operating out of my usual programming. It's not hard. I just chose to try it some years back and saw good results. So I am doing it more and more.

It is interesting that the similar situations have me feeling respectful, connected, and empowered and you feeling resentful, disconnected and disempowered. So I thought I'd share and I hope this helps.