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Why Value? Can't we just make money?

Anything related to matters of the mind

JustmeSD

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Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to the forum.
So far I consider it's awesome, and so is the community! I feel it worths my time.
I was looking at a few successful stories, and I've noticed something that's been bugging me.
It's not absent on the forum, not by far, but I think we all should learn and use a certain language.
Something I think we can change and improve. Now you may agree, or not. Here it is:

Many describe their success, which I get and which I respect. Of course, who's not happy when things get moving...

Yes, these people deserve congratulations and respect and support from the community.

What I didn't see that often, was some points about how they managed to deliver value.
Some also describe how they came up with the idea - that's a takeaway. So important.
And more, the replies that follow are most of them about : congrats, how did you do this, how did you do that.
Don't get me wrong, that is important information for me too! For all of us, no matter the stage of the business. We learn new things like that.
But how about asking:
- How did you manage to deliver better value?
- Do you have customer feedback? What did they say?
- Did you had negative feedback? What did they say?

Why is that important?
We would have a better understanding and a different mindset.
E.g:
I had success because:
- I delivered a cheaper product of the same quality. Or service...
- I managed to respond really fast to customer calls or emails.
- I refused to give up and search for a way to learn and improve this or that( This I see often and I like it).
- I used better materials for my product.
- I improved a lot the loading time of my webpage.
- I deliver my service in 12h comparing to my competitor's 24h...

Everyone could learn a lot from this. No need for the owner of the post to reveal secrets, but value generator actions.
I see quality people here on the forum, and I like that.
So my message would be:

A: for the newcomers - get interested in how value is created. And you'll have a business. That's what the book's about.
B: for the post owners when describing their road: tell us something about the value you created. So you, the ones that understood that, make others understand too.

In fact, this community is that good, as it delivers value. But what stops everyone to maximize that?
As such, everyone would learn from that, and build a mindset focused on spotting and generating value.
Value has different meanings for all of us. My product could mean nothing to you, but it does mean something to the people that decided to buy/reserve it.
The question would be: why?
I also wrote PM to others asking for certain technical things. But also checked-out that person's product, to see what makes it special.

Also, I was enlightened recently by Andy, about the difference between "subscribers" and "people".
Without realizing, seeing all kind of videos on the web, we get to use the term subscribers. I did. But when you think of them as people...it's something else.

My apologies if there's already another post like this. I haven't got to read everything here.
Now, do you, the reader find this post to be useful? Or not?
 
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Andy Black

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Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to the forum.
So far I consider it's awesome, and so is the community! I feel it worths my time.
I was looking at a few successful stories, and I've noticed something that's been bugging me.
It's not absent on the forum, not by far, but I think we all should learn and use a certain language.
Something I think we can change and improve. Now you may agree, or not. Here it is:

Many describe their success, which I get and which I respect. Of course, who's not happy when things get moving...

Yes, these people deserve congratulations and respect and support from the community.

What I didn't see that often, was some points about how they managed to deliver value.
Some also describe how they came up with the idea - that's a takeaway. So important.
And more, the replies that follow are most of them about : congrats, how did you do this, how did you do that.
Don't get me wrong, that is important information for me too! For all of us, no matter the stage of the business. We learn new things like that.
But how about asking:
- How did you manage to deliver better value?
- Do you have customer feedback? What did they say?
- Did you had negative feedback? What did they say?

Why is that important?
We would have a better understanding and a different mindset.
E.g:
I had success because:
- I delivered a cheaper product of the same quality. Or service...
- I managed to respond really fast to customer calls or emails.
- I refused to give up and search for a way to learn and improve this or that( This I see often and I like it).
- I used better materials for my product.
- I improved a lot the loading time of my webpage.
- I deliver my service in 12h comparing to my competitor's 24h...

Everyone could learn a lot from this. No need for the owner of the post to reveal secrets, but value generator actions.
I see quality people here on the forum, and I like that.
So my message would be:

A: for the newcomers - get interested in how value is created. And you'll have a business. That's what the book's about.
B: for the post owners when describing their road: tell us something about the value you created. So you, the ones that understood that, make others understand too.

In fact, this community is that good, as it delivers value. But what stops everyone to maximize that?
As such, everyone would learn from that, and build a mindset focused on spotting and generating value.
Value has different meanings for all of us. My product could mean nothing to you, but it does mean something to the people that decided to buy/reserve it.
The question would be: why?
I also wrote PM to others asking for certain technical things. But also checked-out that person's product, to see what makes it special.

Also, I was enlightened recently by Andy, about the difference between "subscribers" and "people".
Without realizing, seeing all kind of videos on the web, we get to use the term subscribers. I did. But when you think of them as people...it's something else.

My apologies if there's already another post like this. I haven't got to read everything here.
Now, do you, the reader find this post to be useful? Or not?
Very nice.

I like how you finished with a question / call-to-action. That’s how to start a discussion.

You have me wondering if I document enough of *how* I deliver value. I’ll bear this in mind going forward.

Maybe we could ask this ourselves every Monday:

“How will I add more value this week?”
 

Ronak

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Any particular thread you can reference?

For the most part, value is inherent in success-- it's the market responding positively to something they find valuable. I can't think of any example on the forum where that's not been the case. There may not be an explicit list laid out neatly regarding what you mentioned, but it is sprinkled throughout the the various threads. Are you looking for a "book summary" type post for some of the major success stories here?
 

JustmeSD

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Any particular thread you can reference?

For the most part, value is inherent in success-- it's the market responding positively to something they find valuable. I can't think of any example on the forum where that's not been the case. There may not be an explicit list laid out neatly regarding what you mentioned, but it is sprinkled throughout the the various threads. Are you looking for a "book summary" type post for some of the major success stories here?
Hi Ronak. Pick few gold threads by yourself. Read the comms. Se how many ask about how the post owner creates value. The see how many ask other things than value. I am not saying value is disregarded, on contrary. All i say that each post should emphasize somehow the value created by the owner of company X. When you read post after post and value creation is repetitive, something clicks. It’s just a small thing about how I think this community can be improved...just my 3 cents :)
 
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Ronak

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You have a point-- one way you can add value to the forum is to address the question in specific threads to get the discussion going.
 

JustmeSD

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Very nice.

I like how you finished with a question / call-to-action. That’s how to start a discussion.

You have me wondering if I document enough of *how* I deliver value. I’ll bear this in mind going forward.

Maybe we could ask this ourselves every Monday:

“How will I add more value this week?”
@Andy Black, I doubt you're the one that has to ask himself this question.
I see plenty of valuable content from you on this forum. So it looks through my eyes.
But here's another thing:
I PERSONALLY think you don't have a good mindset because you're the moderator. I think you are the moderator because you have a good mindset. Your value precedes your status, not the other way around. From my pov. Most likely this is why a certain someone trusted you to be the moderator.

A proof of what I say is your humble attitude, of asking yourself how you deliver value. When one is like this, it means that person(you in this case), don't need approval and admiration from others, as you know your value already. I think your modesty comes from the fact you have an open mind, and an open mind is a good field for seeds of learning. Also, this shows you don't have in your head the idea that you need to be right all the time, which again makes you opened to mind upgrades:)
For me, so far, you are a good example.
And yes, I'm will start my week from now on asking myself the question you suggested. A good idea :)
 
Last edited:

MJ DeMarco

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I had success because:
- I delivered a cheaper product of the same quality. Or service...
- I managed to respond really fast to customer calls or emails.
- I refused to give up and search for a way to learn and improve this or that( This I see often and I like it).
- I used better materials for my product.
- I improved a lot the loading time of my webpage.
- I deliver my service in 12h comparing to my competitor's 24h...

All value skew.

One customer might buy because of #1, or #2, or #8, or a combination of all.

Ya never know what brings the buyer over the finish line.
 
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Johnny boy

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Offering value is always important.

But, there's many, many, many people in business who are the "nice guys" who do a great job, offer great service, treat employees well and still get shit on because they don't know how to put themselves first.

I think you need to have empathy to be able to get inside the customer's brain and "deliver value" by knowing what will make them want to hand over their money, and the cunning ability to maximize your own benefit instead of just being the nice guy in business.
 

JustmeSD

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Offering value is always important.

But, there's many, many, many people in business who are the "nice guys" who do a great job, offer great service, treat employees well and still get shit on because they don't know how to put themselves first.

I think you need to have empathy to be able to get inside the customer's brain and "deliver value" by knowing what will make them want to hand over their money, and the cunning ability to maximize your own benefit instead of just being the nice guy in business.
I totally agree with empathy. I think there must be a balance between empathy and the ability to maximize own benefits. When the latter surpasses empathy to much I don't think it's ok. To less empathy translates in low value offered and big thirst for money, and that means bad reviews and no reorders. But on the other hand, I'm here to learn, not to teach...
Is there any experience behind that, and if yes would you mind sharing?
 

LightHouse

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I love your line of thinking. People all have different levels of ability in their communication skills though. No single framework will ever be adopted.

What I think will be important, is if you (or anyone) asks those questions in relevant threads. That's where value gets elicited in a public forum setting.

The other thing I think to note, is that value is subjective and in the eye of the one whom received it. The business owner can make broad assumptions based on feedback, but every customer is going to see a different value. And that would be difficult to articulate and likely boring for people to read in every thread.

The world is always looking for the most salacious content, and that starts with hitting the big points with lots of numbers and excitement, it takes the community after to ask good (and bad) questions to get what each user wants to know, out of the OP.

Great thought @JustmeSD
 
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Johnny boy

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I totally agree with empathy. I think there must be a balance between empathy and the ability to maximize own benefits. When the latter surpasses empathy to much I don't think it's ok. To less empathy translates in low value offered and big thirst for money, and that means bad reviews and no reorders. But on the other hand, I'm here to learn, not to teach...
Is there any experience behind that, and if yes would you mind sharing?
Yes, my experience is this.

Customers, employees and businesses all have their own goals (generally speaking).

Customers want the most or highest quality products or services for the lowest cost. This means in a customer's perfect world they would have millions of dollars worth of work done or products delivered and they would pay nothing for it.

Employees want to be paid the most money for doing the least work. This means in an employee's perfect world, they would be paid millions of dollars for doing nothing.

Businesses want to do the least amount of work (or spend the least amount of money for that work to be done) and be paid the most money. This means in a business' perfect world, they would be paid millions of dollars for doing nothing. (Or they would be paid millions of dollars while employees work for free).

If you do not INTENTIONALLY FIGHT for your own interests, you will have employees and customers tipping the scale in their favor, resulting in a more perfect scenario for them and a less perfect scenario for you.

Because I intentionally fight for my own interests, I enjoy the following benefits.

1. I make much more money
2. I work a lot less

My question isn't "how can I make the customer as happy as possible?"

1. Some customers are assholes. I try to get in front of as many customers as possible so I can charge a premium, get rid of problem customers and profit as much as possible. I want the most low-maintenance, high paying customers that give me no headaches. And that's what I get for the most part!
2. The customer would be very happy if our service was dirt cheap. It's pretty expensive.
3. The customer would be happy if we did extra services and "went above and beyond". We offer basic services that take a short amount of time so we can get a lot of them done in a day.

Instead, almost everything about our business is designed with US in mind.

1. We only do recurring services so WE have an easier time scheduling.
2. We only do contracts so WE are in control and don't let customers take advantage of us.
3. We only do basic services so WE can easily train low wage workers and spend less time managing, fixing mistakes, dealing with headaches.
4. We pay employees on a schedule that ensures that they aren't caught up and are always owed money since low wage jobs are notorious for unreliability and quitting without notice.

On paper, according to the "just provide value and think of others" way of thinking, I have a awful and mean company.

We have a high customer retention rate, a 35%+ profit margin, a 4.7 rating on google, and a humongous return on ad spend.

Something must be working.
 

JustmeSD

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Yes, my experience is this.

Customers, employees and businesses all have their own goals (generally speaking).

Customers want the most or highest quality products or services for the lowest cost. This means in a customer's perfect world they would have millions of dollars worth of work done or products delivered and they would pay nothing for it.

Employees want to be paid the most money for doing the least work. This means in an employee's perfect world, they would be paid millions of dollars for doing nothing.

Businesses want to do the least amount of work (or spend the least amount of money for that work to be done) and be paid the most money. This means in a business' perfect world, they would be paid millions of dollars for doing nothing. (Or they would be paid millions of dollars while employees work for free).

If you do not INTENTIONALLY FIGHT for your own interests, you will have employees and customers tipping the scale in their favor, resulting in a more perfect scenario for them and a less perfect scenario for you.

Because I intentionally fight for my own interests, I enjoy the following benefits.

1. I make much more money
2. I work a lot less

My question isn't "how can I make the customer as happy as possible?"

1. Some customers are assholes. I try to get in front of as many customers as possible so I can charge a premium, get rid of problem customers and profit as much as possible. I want the most low-maintenance, high paying customers that give me no headaches. And that's what I get for the most part!
2. The customer would be very happy if our service was dirt cheap. It's pretty expensive.
3. The customer would be happy if we did extra services and "went above and beyond". We offer basic services that take a short amount of time so we can get a lot of them done in a day.

Instead, almost everything about our business is designed with US in mind.

1. We only do recurring services so WE have an easier time scheduling.
2. We only do contracts so WE are in control and don't let customers take advantage of us.
3. We only do basic services so WE can easily train low wage workers and spend less time managing, fixing mistakes, dealing with headaches.
4. We pay employees on a schedule that ensures that they aren't caught up and are always owed money since low wage jobs are notorious for unreliability and quitting without notice.

On paper, according to the "just provide value and think of others" way of thinking, I have a awful and mean company.

We have a high customer retention rate, a 35%+ profit margin, a 4.7 rating on google, and a humongous return on ad spend.

Something must be working.
Thank you for sharing that :)
Probably you have a lot of experience in entrepreneurship.
I guess someone took advantage of your kindness at one point.
I was not suggesting that businesses need to play the slave role, in order to make bank.
Just saying, like in the comment of @LightHouse, that understanding their needs is what one needs, and doing something about it.
Now I don't have as much experience in entrepreneurship as you do, and I won't contradict you there, but when it comes to employees...that's another story.
I never lost any of my team. Ever. They had offers that were better financially. They chose to tell me about it and refuse them. I advised them to go to the interviews. They went. Many times. Simply because I treated them as my colleagues, and my accent was put on developing their skills, they chose to stay and grow instead of running after money.
They didn't leave because of the environment they were in. I'm not saying to be at extremes. I'm also selfish sometimes.
But if we at least could understand the other's selfishness, things would be different. I do not judge your way, not saying good or bad, as I said, I'm here to learn, not teach.
We can not care for the whole's planet's worries and pains, and needs. Too much for one mind. But understanding what they wish, and delivering just a bit over their wish...that makes the difference.
But who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
Whenever I go to the garage, my mechanic treats me like golds.
When speaking to me doesn't use his phone. He always tries to solve my issue asap. Also when he says he'll be don, he is done. But for that, I don't treat him as my slave. I respect him and his business.
He treats my brother the same. He acts the same with my 3 other friends that go to him.
I went to my car's official dealer/garage, they asked me 5g's without even lifting up my car. Cause you know...when I shit, in their minds, money comes out. The problem wasn't even what they said. My guy fixed it with $700, original parts, 2 years warranty. He charges per hour the same as them, but he treats me differently.
This is what I'm talking about, respect and empathy from both sides, but it rarely starts from your client. Agree with all you said about what they want, about their or better said ours also selfishness, cause we're also clients for other businesses. But if everyone acts selfish, then we'll all starve...
 

Tats1515

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Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to the forum.
So far I consider it's awesome, and so is the community! I feel it worths my time.
I was looking at a few successful stories, and I've noticed something that's been bugging me.
It's not absent on the forum, not by far, but I think we all should learn and use a certain language.
Something I think we can change and improve. Now you may agree, or not. Here it is:

Many describe their success, which I get and which I respect. Of course, who's not happy when things get moving...

Yes, these people deserve congratulations and respect and support from the community.

What I didn't see that often, was some points about how they managed to deliver value.
Some also describe how they came up with the idea - that's a takeaway. So important.
And more, the replies that follow are most of them about : congrats, how did you do this, how did you do that.
Don't get me wrong, that is important information for me too! For all of us, no matter the stage of the business. We learn new things like that.
But how about asking:
- How did you manage to deliver better value?
- Do you have customer feedback? What did they say?
- Did you had negative feedback? What did they say?

Why is that important?
We would have a better understanding and a different mindset.
E.g:
I had success because:
- I delivered a cheaper product of the same quality. Or service...
- I managed to respond really fast to customer calls or emails.
- I refused to give up and search for a way to learn and improve this or that( This I see often and I like it).
- I used better materials for my product.
- I improved a lot the loading time of my webpage.
- I deliver my service in 12h comparing to my competitor's 24h...

Everyone could learn a lot from this. No need for the owner of the post to reveal secrets, but value generator actions.
I see quality people here on the forum, and I like that.
So my message would be:

A: for the newcomers - get interested in how value is created. And you'll have a business. That's what the book's about.
B: for the post owners when describing their road: tell us something about the value you created. So you, the ones that understood that, make others understand too.

In fact, this community is that good, as it delivers value. But what stops everyone to maximize that?
As such, everyone would learn from that, and build a mindset focused on spotting and generating value.
Value has different meanings for all of us. My product could mean nothing to you, but it does mean something to the people that decided to buy/reserve it.
The question would be: why?
I also wrote PM to others asking for certain technical things. But also checked-out that person's product, to see what makes it special.

Also, I was enlightened recently by Andy, about the difference between "subscribers" and "people".
Without realizing, seeing all kind of videos on the web, we get to use the term subscribers. I did. But when you think of them as people...it's something else.

My apologies if there's already another post like this. I haven't got to read everything here.
Now, do you, the reader find this post to be useful? Or not?
Totally agree @JustmeSD These questions are the base of what really makes a business deliver the numbers, online or offline... getting the insights on what, why, when and how, helps get a clear understanding of the gaps in critical painpoints on how your product or service is really solving or delighting customers, or on the other hand, what needs to be changed.
 
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JustmeSD

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Totally agree @JustmeSD These questions are the base of what really makes a business deliver the numbers, online or offline... getting the insights on what, why, when and how, helps get a clear understanding of the gaps in critical painpoints on how your product or service is really solving or delighting customers, or on the other hand, what needs to be changed.
That kinda sums it up, YES. We train our minds to value. I mean, in his books MJ has certain words he uses. One of them is Value. Often used. Very often. And it is used so much because it is very important, exactly like in the example with catching a cat...
 

JAJT

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While the word "value" is commonly associated with lofty ideals, the reality is that when we say "value", we're not talking about an abstract concept or physical attribute - we're talking about "market value" and your product or service's "value proposition".

The truth of the matter is that people don't spend money on things in the market where they see no value. So we can naturally assume that ANY purchase has shown some form of value proposition to the buyer, but WHAT exactly that value is could be literally anything.

Here's the kicker - your product's value proposition can actually go directly against the grain of how anyone in their right mind would normally define value as it pertains to your product or service.

If I asked you what you thought of being sold a barely cold, mediocre fountain drink for for $7 I'm positive the word "value" wouldn't exactly be in your first hundred thoughts. But put that fountain drink in a baseball stadium or movie theater and suddenly the value reveals itself. The value is in the captive audience and in that audience feeling like they are missing out if they don't buy one as part of the experience. Value was just created directly against the grain of anyone's normal definition of value. Ask someone what they think of paying that much for that product and they'll tell you it's a terrible rip off for a terrible product but chance are they'll tell you this with the drink in their hand!

I think too many people look at 'value' as this lofty ideal to strive for, and while there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, it bares repeating that value can be anything and come from anywhere and even in some cases be perceived as negative (monopolies, captive audiences, fear of missing out, feelings of obligation, etc).
 

Kevin88660

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Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to the forum.
So far I consider it's awesome, and so is the community! I feel it worths my time.
I was looking at a few successful stories, and I've noticed something that's been bugging me.
It's not absent on the forum, not by far, but I think we all should learn and use a certain language.
Something I think we can change and improve. Now you may agree, or not. Here it is:

Many describe their success, which I get and which I respect. Of course, who's not happy when things get moving...

Yes, these people deserve congratulations and respect and support from the community.

What I didn't see that often, was some points about how they managed to deliver value.
Some also describe how they came up with the idea - that's a takeaway. So important.
And more, the replies that follow are most of them about : congrats, how did you do this, how did you do that.
Don't get me wrong, that is important information for me too! For all of us, no matter the stage of the business. We learn new things like that.
But how about asking:
- How did you manage to deliver better value?
- Do you have customer feedback? What did they say?
- Did you had negative feedback? What did they say?

Why is that important?
We would have a better understanding and a different mindset.
E.g:
I had success because:
- I delivered a cheaper product of the same quality. Or service...
- I managed to respond really fast to customer calls or emails.
- I refused to give up and search for a way to learn and improve this or that( This I see often and I like it).
- I used better materials for my product.
- I improved a lot the loading time of my webpage.
- I deliver my service in 12h comparing to my competitor's 24h...

Everyone could learn a lot from this. No need for the owner of the post to reveal secrets, but value generator actions.
I see quality people here on the forum, and I like that.
So my message would be:

A: for the newcomers - get interested in how value is created. And you'll have a business. That's what the book's about.
B: for the post owners when describing their road: tell us something about the value you created. So you, the ones that understood that, make others understand too.

In fact, this community is that good, as it delivers value. But what stops everyone to maximize that?
As such, everyone would learn from that, and build a mindset focused on spotting and generating value.
Value has different meanings for all of us. My product could mean nothing to you, but it does mean something to the people that decided to buy/reserve it.
The question would be: why?
I also wrote PM to others asking for certain technical things. But also checked-out that person's product, to see what makes it special.

Also, I was enlightened recently by Andy, about the difference between "subscribers" and "people".
Without realizing, seeing all kind of videos on the web, we get to use the term subscribers. I did. But when you think of them as people...it's something else.

My apologies if there's already another post like this. I haven't got to read everything here.
Now, do you, the reader find this post to be useful? Or not?
The English word value also means what your clients actually value-what is important and what is not as important.

Not everyone is the same. But in every industry that could be some rules of thumb that experienced people will tell you.

In the building and construction industry a contractor’s ability to meet scheduled deadline and pay its sub-contractors on time is more important than price. In another words you have a good reputation you could squeeze a bit more on both ends, charging a bit higher than market and paying a bit lower than market. This is just one example.
 
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