The Entrepreneur Forum | Financial Freedom | Starting a Business | Motivation | Money | Success

[RANT]: Raise the minimum wage! This is so unfair!

Learn how to build wealth and win financial freedom the Fastlane way!

Say "NO" to mediocre living rife with jobs, ascetic frugality, and suffocating savings rituals— learn how to build a Fastlane business that pays both freedom and lifestyle affluence. Join more than 70,000 entrepreneurs who are making it happen.
Join for FREE Today
Get the books
Remove ads? Join Fastlane INSIDERS
(Registration removes this block)
A detailed account of a Fastlane process...

Butschal

Minister of Silly Walks
Feb 24, 2015
8
4
Pennsylvania
Well I'm a student currently, just recently read the book and joined the forum, so I'm not exactly looking to drop out immediately, or at all.

Anyhow, I notice two things with my classmates that really bother me. The fact that they think better of themselves than they should, and the flippant attitude they have towards debt.

As far as their self-value is concerned, everybody thinks they're special. It's a fact that if you go up to most "gender studies" or "marketing" majors on this campus, and ask what kind of career they want to pursue, they'll say "Oh, I want to work as a consultant" or "I want to, work for Apple" or "You know, I'm really not sure." These people don't have a realistic view of the world. Very few will ever work for Apple, or Google, or Accenture with the degrees they pursue, yet they seem to think that they are entitled to, or will just be handed a "good" career working for one of these companies because they went to Uni! Unless you are a valuable resource that these companies need (Engineers, Doctors, Quants) you are not going to get hired, yet plenty of liberal arts students go through school nonchalantly, and are surprised when they have to go move back in with mom and dad. The utter lack of planning and the lackadaisical attitude is perverse, yet everywhere.

Second, the attitude of some of these students towards debt. I'm all for making smart investments, getting a mortgage if you can beat the interest with the money you don't pay, taking out a loan while you're young to start a business, and other intelligent uses of credit. However, I think that one message I received from a female friend really sums it up. "Just got my check from the bank, time to hit Chipotle!!!" Are you kidding me? You just got done complaining to me how you have no money, then, knowing that you are already heavily in debt, you use the money that should pay for your education to eat out at an overpriced Mexican Grill? The attitude some of these people have is disgusting. I literally have heard people say "Oh, I really shouldn't go to Tijuana for break, but what is another $3K in loans at this point? YOLO" and it is disgusting. They're not getting any value by using this credit that is so easily obtained from Uncle Sam, they're just mortgaging their futures for the hedonistic pleasures of now.

I could go on about the amount of good jobs available to people without college degrees, and how many people would be better served by pursuing those, but it looks like that has been covered already.
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

ChickenHawk

Legendary Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
Aug 16, 2012
1,279
5,999
Butt in Chair
Anyhow, I notice two things with my classmates that really bother me. The fact that they think better of themselves than they should, and the flippant attitude they have towards debt.
Your analysis of this seems to me, spot-on, and it should serve you well as you move forward. Some people never learn by their own mistakes, much less from the mistakes of others, so it seems to me that you're way ahead of the curve, at least as far as mindset is concerned.
 

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,776
2,768
31
brooklyn
While i completely agree that many many people don't get ahead in life because of their own bad choices and slowlane brainwashing, I actually feel that the minimum wage SHOULD be higher.

We got banksters bankrupting the economy, the government is controlled by private interest groups, etc etc etc etc.

There will always be RICH and POOR, there has to be, not everyone can be a CEO, otherwise who the hell is gonna make your burger, wash your dry cleaning, drive your limo?

But there doesn't have to be anything necessarily wrong with the concept of RICH and POOR, winners and losers, as long as the POOR aren't living in poverty.

I know that we on this forum feel very VERY strongly about being our own boss, not wasting our precious precious life living a mediocre life earning just a "living" wage, but from my personal experience from talking to friends, coworkers, people in general, the AVERAGE person is HAPPY(or at least ok with) living an AVERAGE LIFE. The average person just wants a SECURE 40 hour a week job, make a DECENT amount of money so he can enjoy a vacation now and then and buy some toys and drink at the bar and pick up a girl once in a blue moon, marriage, get old, retire and die. To people like us this would be a suicide inducing existence, but that's why we're different.

If we gave all average people such an existence, there would still be PLENTY of money left for the CEO's, and THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS. It's pure GREED at the highest levels.

Providing value is one thing, CRONY CAPITALISM is a whole nother issue, and that's what's ruining everything and driving this world downhill.

Let the people have their average lifestyle, don't abuse the people further and further with stock market crashes and disappearing retirement 401k's.

If this goes on, it's gonna end in REVOLT, eventually there will be riots and non of us want that to happen, riots and poverty are bad for business, unless the plan is to cash in on that as well(start selling molotov cocktails...)

The sidewalker may be lazy or whatever and not believe in what we do, but even they put in the work to get something to EAT!

Of course nobody on this entire forum I'm sure belongs to the highest level elite that's decimating this planet, are there any trillionaires on this forum?
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

PedroG

Silver Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 1, 2013
298
768
NH
While i completely agree that many many people don't get ahead in life because of their own bad choices and slowlane brainwashing, I actually feel that the minimum wage SHOULD be higher.

We got banksters bankrupting the economy, the government is controlled by private interest groups, etc etc etc etc.

There will always be RICH and POOR, there has to be, not everyone can be a CEO, otherwise who the hell is gonna make your burger, wash your dry cleaning, drive your limo?

But there doesn't have to be anything necessarily wrong with the concept of RICH and POOR, winners and losers, as long as the POOR aren't living in poverty.

I know that we on this forum feel very VERY strongly about being our own boss, not wasting our precious precious life living a mediocre life earning just a "living" wage, but from my personal experience from talking to friends, coworkers, people in general, the AVERAGE person is HAPPY(or at least ok with) living an AVERAGE LIFE. The average person just wants a SECURE 40 hour a week job, make a DECENT amount of money so he can enjoy a vacation now and then and buy some toys and drink at the bar and pick up a girl once in a blue moon, marriage, get old, retire and die. To people like us this would be a suicide inducing existence, but that's why we're different.

If we gave all average people such an existence, there would still be PLENTY of money left for the CEO's, and THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS. It's pure GREED at the highest levels.

Providing value is one thing, CRONY CAPITALISM is a whole nother issue, and that's what's ruining everything and driving this world downhill.

Let the people have their average lifestyle, don't abuse the people further and further with stock market crashes and disappearing retirement 401k's.

If this goes on, it's gonna end in REVOLT, eventually there will be riots and non of us want that to happen, riots and poverty are bad for business, unless the plan is to cash in on that as well(start selling molotov cocktails...)

The sidewalker may be lazy or whatever and not believe in what we do, but even they put in the work to get something to EAT!

Of course nobody on this entire forum I'm sure belongs to the highest level elite that's decimating this planet, are there any trillionaires on this forum?

Your premise is incorrect. You assume that raising the minimum wage would actually help the poor. it wouldn't. If it did, why not raise it to $100 per hour? Because it would increase unemployment. Well, the same thing happens at whatever amount you would set it to, if it is above what the market would have it at.

Raising the minimum wage actually hurts the poor and unskilled. Think about what would happen if we raised the price of chicken artificially. Now all of a sudden, chicken is competing with steak at restaurants because their prices will be similar. Now if people are going to spend that much, they would rather just pay for the steak, so chicken sales would go down, not only because of the higher price, but because it would be competing with a superior product.

The same thing would happen to unskilled people. Raise their wage, and not only does the demand for their labor go down (law of supply and demand), but now they could be competing with people that are more skilled, who now would consider working at McDonalds instead of being a bank teller because they both pay the same. Now you have increased competition for the unskilled, which is the last thing they need.

Not all jobs are supposed to support a family or even one person living alone. Some jobs are great for college kids. If someone spends a decade making minimum wage, there is something wrong with the person who isn't making any effort to improve and become a more valuable employee.

You increase your wage by providing more value to an employer. People pay you for the value you provide, not based on how many bills you have to pay or whether or not you need help to support your family.
 

twdavis

The Danger
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
Jul 20, 2013
283
399
IMO we need more greedy fat cats. If not for the greedy fat cats the poor wouldnt even have a minimum wage to live on and we'd have no economy in the first place.

I dont personally think the minimum wage should be raised because it solves nothing other than making everything more expensive.

If those working minimum wage jobs dont like it (other than high school or college kids) then find a new job or start a business. Nobody's holding a gun to your head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

DayIFly

Bronze Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Jul 16, 2012
110
152
Your premise is incorrect. You assume that raising the minimum wage would actually help the poor. it wouldn't. If it did, why not raise it to $100 per hour? Because it would increase unemployment. Well, the same thing happens at whatever amount you would set it to, if it is above what the market would have it at.

Raising the minimum wage actually hurts the poor and unskilled. Think about what would happen if we raised the price of chicken artificially. Now all of a sudden, chicken is competing with steak at restaurants because their prices will be similar. Now if people are going to spend that much, they would rather just pay for the steak, so chicken sales would go down, not only because of the higher price, but because it would be competing with a superior product.

The same thing would happen to unskilled people. Raise their wage, and not only does the demand for their labor go down (law of supply and demand), but now they could be competing with people that are more skilled, who now would consider working at McDonalds instead of being a bank teller because they both pay the same. Now you have increased competition for the unskilled, which is the last thing they need.

Not all jobs are supposed to support a family or even one person living alone. Some jobs are great for college kids. If someone spends a decade making minimum wage, there is something wrong with the person who isn't making any effort to improve and become a more valuable employee.

You increase your wage by providing more value to an employer. People pay you for the value you provide, not based on how many bills you have to pay or whether or not you need help to support your family.

Sorry man, you can´t throw around first semester economics and tell me that´s how the world works.
2007-12-06_140655.gif


I wrote about this earlier in the thread already, but again, you have to base your thinking on certain assumptions. One of the assumptions for this model is e.g., a perfect market with perfect competition and so on, BUT this isn´t the case in the real world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_market

If it would be so easy, there would be a general consensus about this in the world.

Look, you could say:
If the wage goes up, people have more money and then they can buy more stuff. More stuff is sold, businesses need to produce more and hire more employees and so on.
--> But it would again be oversimplified (like the above graph).

I think the problem is that many view it as black and white. But there are lots of (50 xD) shades of grey.
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

PedroG

Silver Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 1, 2013
298
768
NH
Sorry man, you can´t throw around first semester economics and tell me that´s how the world works.
2007-12-06_140655.gif


I wrote about this earlier in the thread already, but again, you have to base your thinking on certain assumptions. One of the assumptions for this model is e.g., a perfect market with perfect competition and so on, BUT this isn´t the case in the real world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_market

If it would be so easy, there would be a general consensus about this in the world.

Look, you could say:
If the wage goes up, people have more money and then they can buy more stuff. More stuff is sold, businesses need to produce more and hire more employees and so on.
--> But it would again be oversimplified (like the above graph).

I think the problem is that many view it as black and white. But there are lots of (50 xD) shades of grey.

Umm, no you don't need to assume a perfect market to know that when something costs more than what it's worth to you, you're not going to purchase it or you are going to purchase less. The problem with minimum wage supporters is that they think they know how much to raise the minimum wage by without causing unemployment. In a market of over 300 million people, no one person or group of persons could possibly know what the right price of anything should be. The only ones making assumptions are those who think they know what a wage should be.

There's no need to assume a perfect market here. Put a minimum price on cars. Let's say $3,000. What happens to cars that are worth less than 3,000? Do you think they will be purchased at the same rate? No, because they will now be competing with cars that are actually worth 3,000. Why would I buy a car that's really worth $500 for $3,000 when I can get the nicer car for $3,000? Also, a poor couple that could afford 2 cars at $1,500 can now afford only 1.

There's no assumptions there. Just logic and common sense. And those who claim raising the wage is good for the economy because people will spend more? That's more than over-simplifying. That's complete ignorance. Raise the wage to 1 million dollars then. Every one will spend so much money, we'll all be rich. They completely ignore the other side of the equation; those who are being forced to provide the 1 million in that case. No way does that compare to the points that I've made.
 
Last edited:

DayIFly

Bronze Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Jul 16, 2012
110
152
What are you trying to convince me off? I didn´t say anything about my stance on the topic. I simply pointed out that you use introductory stuff to explain complex issues. The stuff you are talking about is for students with the goal to learn how to work with a model. Nothing more.

There's no assumptions there. Just logic and common sense.
What are you talking about? Logic and common sense is BASED on assumptions, every single time. First, you get an idea, then you try to prove it until it works or you find out that your assumptions are wrong.

Simply google "case for minimum wage" and the first entry
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/the-case-for-a-higher-minimum-wage.html?_r=0
states (quote):

"The weight of the evidence shows that increases in the minimum wage have lifted pay without hurting employment, a point that was driven home in a recent letter to Mr. Obama and congressional leaders, signed by more than 600 economists, among them Nobel laureates and past presidents of the American Economic Association.

That economic conclusion dovetails with a recent comprehensive study, which found that minimum wage increases resulted in “strong earnings effects” — that is, higher pay — “and no employment effects” — that is, zero job loss."


Without me taking a stance here, there is without a doubt more to it in regards to pros and cons than "You know if you sell a car for 3000 that´s worth less... Look what happens if you raise their wage to 1 million!", etc.
 

PedroG

Silver Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 1, 2013
298
768
NH
What are you trying to convince me off? I didn´t say anything about my stance on the topic. I simply pointed out that you use introductory stuff to explain complex issues. The stuff you are talking about is for students with the goal to learn how to work with a model. Nothing more.


What are you talking about? Logic and common sense is BASED on assumptions, every single time. First, you get an idea, then you try to prove it until it works or you find out that your assumptions are wrong.

Simply google "case for minimum wage" and the first entry
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/the-case-for-a-higher-minimum-wage.html?_r=0
states (quote):

"The weight of the evidence shows that increases in the minimum wage have lifted pay without hurting employment, a point that was driven home in a recent letter to Mr. Obama and congressional leaders, signed by more than 600 economists, among them Nobel laureates and past presidents of the American Economic Association.

That economic conclusion dovetails with a recent comprehensive study, which found that minimum wage increases resulted in “strong earnings effects” — that is, higher pay — “and no employment effects” — that is, zero job loss."


Without me taking a stance here, there is without a doubt more to it in regards to pros and cons than "You know if you sell a car for 3000 that´s worth less... Look what happens if you raise their wage to 1 million!", etc.

Here's the thing. You talk about the assumptions I'm making but you have yet to point them out. Your making very vague points about how the issue is more complex but you aren't specific about anything. Which assumptions am I making? The point I'm making is that it isn't as complex as people think. Price controls don't work, period. It doesn't matter if it's labor or any other good. Price controls don't work. If it doesn't work for chicken it doesn't work for labor. It's not based on assumptions. It's based on human behavior. To think that artificially raising or lowering a price has no effect on the behavior of the person purchasing that good IS an assumption.

The ones making assumptions are supporters of the minimum wage. I've been specific about what those assumptions are. You, on the other hand, have yet to tell me which assumptions I'm making.

600 economists, huh? There are 2 camps in economics. And to give an example of the difference between them, there are those that were spot on in predicting the 2007 housing crisis and those who were dead wrong. Those who were dead wrong have completely politicized the field to the point where they will find a way to explain anything to advance an agenda whether it goes against the most basic laws of economics or not.

So providing me with an article that states "the weight of the evidence..." doesn't prove anything. It wouldn't take me long to provide you with some real information from economists with much more credibility.
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

DayIFly

Bronze Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Speedway Pass
Jul 16, 2012
110
152
All you say is, "I am right and you are not." You say, you don´t need assumptions, it´s human behavior, logic and common sense. Yet you use oversimplified models in a verbose way which ARE based on assumptions. And yes, I posted a link to wikipedia above to show you which assumptions the model you use is based on.

In all honesty, I give up. You see black and white, like in your example about the housing crisis. You again divide them up into 2 camps. Like one side is 100% wrong and the other is 100% right.

Before someone beats me to it: Let´s just chill out and calm down here :notworthy:
You can have the last word, if you´d like.
 

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,776
2,768
31
brooklyn
Your premise is incorrect. You assume that raising the minimum wage would actually help the poor. it wouldn't. If it did, why not raise it to $100 per hour? Because it would increase unemployment. Well, the same thing happens at whatever amount you would set it to, if it is above what the market would have it at.

Raising the minimum wage actually hurts the poor and unskilled. Think about what would happen if we raised the price of chicken artificially. Now all of a sudden, chicken is competing with steak at restaurants because their prices will be similar. Now if people are going to spend that much, they would rather just pay for the steak, so chicken sales would go down, not only because of the higher price, but because it would be competing with a superior product.

The same thing would happen to unskilled people. Raise their wage, and not only does the demand for their labor go down (law of supply and demand), but now they could be competing with people that are more skilled, who now would consider working at McDonalds instead of being a bank teller because they both pay the same. Now you have increased competition for the unskilled, which is the last thing they need.

Not all jobs are supposed to support a family or even one person living alone. Some jobs are great for college kids. If someone spends a decade making minimum wage, there is something wrong with the person who isn't making any effort to improve and become a more valuable employee.

You increase your wage by providing more value to an employer. People pay you for the value you provide, not based on how many bills you have to pay or whether or not you need help to support your family.

The problem is that with the current minimum wage, people can't even afford the chicken to start with, let alone something as extravagant as steak.

You're right that not all jobs are supposed to support a family, but not even one person living alone? that's crazy! You're working 40 hours a week FULL TIME! minimum wage or not, that should be more than enough hours to at least support a person's basic needs like food and shelter!

Why does survival in a civilized society have to be so cutthroat, if a person simply doesn't have the ambition to make something of themselves and works minimum wage for 10 years, surely they deserve a "living" wage to support themselves? they don't deserve to die.

They'll never afford a nice house, a Lamborghini, or any form of extravagant lifestyle, but at least they'll have a roof over their heads and food to eat, basic human needs that the minimum wage is struggling to meet.
 

PedroG

Silver Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 1, 2013
298
768
NH
All you say is, "I am right and you are not." You say, you don´t need assumptions, it´s human behavior, logic and common sense. Yet you use oversimplified models in a verbose way which ARE based on assumptions. And yes, I posted a link to wikipedia above to show you which assumptions the model you use is based on.

In all honesty, I give up. You see black and white, like in your example about the housing crisis. You again divide them up into 2 camps. Like one side is 100% wrong and the other is 100% right.

Before someone beats me to it: Let´s just chill out and calm down here :notworthy:
You can have the last word, if you´d like.

And still you won't say which assumption you are talking about. You post links and provide only vagueness.

I'm the one that gives up here. It sounds like the FACT that the price of something affects demand...you believe that to be an assumption apparently. Since you haven't really addressed any of my points, there is nothing else for me to add. Good day.
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.
Last edited:

PedroG

Silver Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 1, 2013
298
768
NH
The problem is that with the current minimum wage, people can't even afford the chicken to start with, let alone something as extravagant as steak.

You're right that not all jobs are supposed to support a family, but not even one person living alone? that's crazy! You're working 40 hours a week FULL TIME! minimum wage or not, that should be more than enough hours to at least support a person's basic needs like food and shelter!

Why does survival in a civilized society have to be so cutthroat, if a person simply doesn't have the ambition to make something of themselves and works minimum wage for 10 years, surely they deserve a "living" wage to support themselves? they don't deserve to die.

They'll never afford a nice house, a Lamborghini, or any form of extravagant lifestyle, but at least they'll have a roof over their heads and food to eat, basic human needs that the minimum wage is struggling to meet.

You said "You're working 40 hours a week FULL TIME!". My problem with that statement is that it implies that you should get paid according to how much you work. In reality you get paid based on the value you are providing. You can't just say anyone that has a job, regardless of the job, should get paid X amount. What if the job is extremely simple? You want to force people to pay a higher amount for that job?

So if plumbers weren't making enough money to survive, am I supposed to be forced to over-pay for their services, as a charity to them?

Or what about fastlaners who haven't made it yet and are struggling with their ideas. Why not force everyone to pay them a minimum price for their product? That would help them, no? We have to make sure everyone makes a living wage, right?

As fastlaners, we should all understand that if we want to be entrepreneurs we need to provide value to make money.

If a job doesn't pay a living wage, it should be a stepping stone, not permanent.
 
Last edited:

luniac

Platinum Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
Dec 7, 2012
1,776
2,768
31
brooklyn
You said "You're working 40 hours a week FULL TIME!". My problem with that statement is that it implies that you should get paid according to how much you work. In reality you get paid based on the value you are providing. You can't just say anyone that has a job, regardless of the job, should get paid X amount. What if the job is extremely simple? You want to force people to pay a higher amount for that job?

So if plumbers weren't making enough money to survive, am I supposed to be forced to over-pay for their services, as a charity to them?

Or what about fastlaners who haven't made it yet and are struggling with their ideas. Why not force everyone to pay them a minimum price for their product? That would help them, no? We have to make sure everyone makes a living wage, right?

As fastlaners, we should all understand that if we want to be entrepreneurs we need to provide value to make money.

If a job doesn't pay a living wage, it should be a stepping stone, not permanent.

yes, in my opinion the lowest form of full time taxable employment should be a "living" wage, i feel that's fair and results in the most general happiness in society.

A product is different, you're now trying to achieve more in life and are taking the risk accordingly.

But its okay, if you become too big to fail, the government will give you a trillion dollars collected from the taxes of the lazy minimum wage bums all around the country...
 

jon.a

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
Sep 29, 2012
4,306
14,078
Near San Diego
yes, in my opinion the lowest form of full time taxable employment should be a "living" wage, i feel that's fair and results in the most general happiness in society.

A product is different, you're now trying to achieve more in life and are taking the risk accordingly.

But its okay, if you become too big to fail, the government will give you a trillion dollars collected from the taxes of the lazy minimum wage bums all around the country...
It sounds like you're in the wrong forum.
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

jon.a

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Speedway Pass
Sep 29, 2012
4,306
14,078
Near San Diego
based on my opinion on this topic? or by my daily action to reach the fastlane?

Based on this...

yes, in my opinion the lowest form of full time taxable employment should be a "living" wage, i feel that's fair and results in the most general happiness in society.

A product is different, you're now trying to achieve more in life and are taking the risk accordingly.

But its okay, if you become too big to fail, the government will give you a trillion dollars collected from the taxes of the lazy minimum wage bums all around the country...
 

ZCP

Legendary Contributor
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Oct 22, 2010
3,191
10,906
Woodstock, GA
You increase your wage by providing more value to an employer. People pay you for the value you provide, not based on how many bills you have to pay or whether or not you need help to support your family.

VALUE. Create value.
 

happybhoy

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
Jan 2, 2015
176
312
33
Ecosse
In the UK, our generous benefit culture means that for a large number of people having a job at minimum wage is not enough. There are many people who are actually better off sitting at home claiming benefits.
It would be better for people and our benefits bill to atleast make it worthwhile to work.

*oops, didn't realise it wasn't an active conversation.
 
Last edited:

kph200

Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
Feb 2, 2015
51
62
30
Pune, India
Most of the people working at jobs that pay minimum wages are in company of very stupid group of individuals. They work 5 days a week and on weekend spend all of it on alcohol and movies.
Even if the employer increases wages guess what happens more party and more alcohol. They buy more liabilities likes iPhone, HD-TV, etc
Hardly you will see anyone trying to save as much as possible and takes effort to build assets.
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.
Last edited:

twdavis

The Danger
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
Jul 20, 2013
283
399
Just saw this nugget on Facebook, thought I'd add it here.
[emoji41]
9a39dd0fc0ebfb18f25c8ca15a1d3713.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

AgainstAllOdds

Legendary Contributor
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
Dec 26, 2014
2,274
14,508
30
Chicago, IL
Most of the people working at jobs that pay minimum wages are in company of very stupid group of individuals. They work 5 days a week and on weekend spend all of it on alcohol and movies.
Even if the employer increases wages guess what happens more party and more alcohol. They buy more liabilities likes iPhone, HD-TV, etc
Hardly you will see anyone trying to save as much as possible and takes effort to build assets.

And this is bad for us (thefastlaneforum) .... how?
 

MJ DeMarco

Administrator
Staff member
FASTLANE INSIDER
EPIC CONTRIBUTOR
Read Rat-Race Escape!
Read Fastlane!
Read Unscripted!
Summit Attendee
Speedway Pass
Jul 23, 2007
33,474
128,815
Alpine, UT
Here's what $15/hour looks like...

11109688_10100288229273132_5011667100435011439_n.jpg

[HASHTAG]#RaiseTheWage[/HASHTAG] ??

How about [HASHTAG]#RaiseYourValueSoYourWorth15AnHour[/HASHTAG]
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

ClaytonAlbright

Bronze Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
Apr 25, 2015
167
169
41
Cumming, GA
I think this is relevant to the topic at hand. Anyone, literally anyone that want's to escape minumum wage and make their way up to an 80k job can do it following these steps. It simply takes a small amount of self-discipline and sacrifice, and this is the slow lane without much risk.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...l-this-job-market-is.60385/page-2#post-460829

1. Go on amazonand buy the comptia A+ study guide for $35.

2. Study your a$$ off. Do free online practice questions.

3. Pass the A+ certification. Make sure you keep practicing after you take the exam so you retain the information.


4. Move to the metro Atlanta area. You can find a room in someone's house for $300.

5. Get on career builder and search for things like "field tech" or "A+". You'll find tons of people that will pay you 15+/hr to go out on small contract jobs. These jobs last hours to months so they don't require much more than an A+ and companies are desperate for them (since most good techs have better positions) and will hire anyone off the street.

6. Do these jobs until you build up a resume. This counts as experience.

7. Once you have around 6 months of experience start looking for help desk or desktop positions. These can start between 35-45k. Desktop is way less stressful since your not answering phones but much harder to find.

Then you'll get stuck looking at those 80k jobs on servers or networking since your comfortable and start saving up your 401k.

While I sway back and forth on the minimum/living wage debate. It's really moot if you just work on improving yourself instead of demanding more from others for the exact same work.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

consultwithu

New Contributor
FASTLANE INSIDER
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
Oct 1, 2010
8
7
Arizona
Yeah, raising the minimum wage is not the answer.

Getting the gov't out of the peoples pocket is!

If you add all the taxes that we pay , federal, state, local, sales tax,
FICA (who ever the hell that is) in some states like California it is over
70!

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/total_taxes/total.html

the above article from CNN only highlights the income and sales taxes.

This is not rocket science.

You want to raise the minimum wage to $15? GREAT! Give the businesses a redeeming
tax cut. So if that new minimum wage cause your payroll to jump by $300,000 then that
money comes right off the top of taxes due.

Of course doing it this way would almost force the gov't to make cuts to it's budget and we all
know THAT will happen when Democrats and Republicans agree to term limits.
 
Don't like ads? Remove them while supporting the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

jazb

Silver Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Speedway Pass
Nov 24, 2013
361
824
The U.K
Yeah, raising the minimum wage is not the answer.

Getting the gov't out of the peoples pocket is!

If you add all the taxes that we pay , federal, state, local, sales tax,
FICA (who ever the hell that is) in some states like California it is over
70!

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/total_taxes/total.html

the above article from CNN only highlights the income and sales taxes.

This is not rocket science.

You want to raise the minimum wage to $15? GREAT! Give the businesses a redeeming
tax cut. So if that new minimum wage cause your payroll to jump by $300,000 then that
money comes right off the top of taxes due.

Of course doing it this way would almost force the gov't to make cuts to it's budget and we all
know THAT will happen when Democrats and Republicans agree to term limits.


Yeah, they have done this in the UK. Our conservative government is cutting corporation tax and increasing the minimum wage. meaning business owners can pay more, but it gets taken off the tax at the end of the year.

So that is £9/hour wage and 18% corporation tax. very very good for both sides if you ask me.

now you guys in the states have 40% corporation tax and want to increase minimum wage to $15. absolute madness.
 

Posiedon

New Contributor
Read Fastlane!
Jul 13, 2015
15
13
29
I never really understood the concept of minimum wage and what is the point of increasing it. I am currently in the USA (since about a year) but I come from a country that has no minimum wage concept. I just looking up some stats online and I see it is about $2-$3 PER DAY(yes you read it right). Needless to say you can imagine the economy and with the level of corruption there are people who are getting way less than that. It all comes down to the level of competition and how much others with equal skill level as yours are willing to work for.

So say you are willing to do work X for $10 but someone says he will do it for $9, everything else being equal the second guy gets the job. The whole point of this is that the value of something is determined by everyone else other than you.

If tomorrow everyone gets a minimum wage of $15, the people who are currently making $15 will start earning $25 and those who are earning $25 will start earning $35. It is all relative.
Another example would be say everyone has a $1 million. What would the price of a gallon of milk then be? Would it still be $4? It would be say around $1000.

All I am trying to say is that wages and net worth everything is relative. $1 million is a lot if only 5% of the population has >1 million. It is pocket change if >95% has it.

Note that I have no background in economics. All I understand in economics is demand and supply. So if I am wrong please educate me :)
 

Post New Topic

Please SEARCH before posting.
Please select the BEST category.

Post new topic

New Topics

Fastlane Insiders

View the forum AD FREE.
Private, unindexed content
Detailed process/execution threads
Ideas needing execution, more!

Join Fastlane Insiders.

Must Read Books...

Explore books recommended by MJ DeMarco and other members of the Fastlane entrepreneurial community.
Fastlane Bookstore
Top