GOLD! [RANT]: Raise the minimum wage! This is so unfair!

[Azure]

Ontario recently raised the min wage something like 30% this year.

Guess what?

Min wage workers got laid off, reduced hourage and are being worked harder than they were before the raise.

Guess what?

Services that rely on min wage workers are raising their prices (day care, etc).

 

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[Counter]

It is one the biggest flaw in the capital system. A woker works his a$$ off and he still does not get his share of the profit. There is a minimum salary limit whereas there is not a maximum salary cap. Billionaires can earn on the blood and sweat of poor workers and they get away with it.

 

[Galaxy16]

not a maximum salary cap.

At least not fot entrepreneurs.

 

[jazb]

It is one the biggest flaw in the capital system. A woker works his a$$ off and he still does not get his share of the profit. There is a minimum salary limit whereas there is not a maximum salary cap. Billionaires can earn on the blood and sweat of poor workers and they get away with it.

Why would you come on an entrepreneurial forum and spout this crap?

 

[Kak]

It is one the biggest flaw in the capital system. A woker works his a$$ off and he still does not get his share of the profit. There is a minimum salary limit whereas there is not a maximum salary cap. Billionaires can earn on the blood and sweat of poor workers and they get away with it.

I'm sorry, who held a gun to the head of the worker and forced them to preform the labor at that rate? What is “his share” of the profit? I would argue his share is his paycheck. If he wants to OWN part of the company than he needs to buy its stock.

This is the most unidimensional thinking I've ever seen in a post. I don't know if you're going to fit in here very well.

 

[Waspy]

It is one the biggest flaw in the capital system. A woker works his a$$ off and he still does not get his share of the profit. There is a minimum salary limit whereas there is not a maximum salary cap. Billionaires can earn on the blood and sweat of poor workers and they get away with it.

Think you stumbled into the wrong forum buddy...

 

[Kak]

Think you stumbled into the wrong forum buddy...

He was looking for a social justice warrior forum. Like MJ put so eloquently earlier in this thread... An intellectual apocalypse has begun.

 

[IGP]

 

[Roveso]

WOW reality check at its best!!

 

[Kak]

It is one the biggest flaw in the capital system. A woker works his a$$ off and he still does not get his share of the profit. There is a minimum salary limit whereas there is not a maximum salary cap. Billionaires can earn on the blood and sweat of poor workers and they get away with it.

I guess it was just a drive by communist remark.

 

[Sagemoney]

Cool thing is burgers will actually end up being cheaper when this becomes ubiquitous(I think).

 

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[Kak]

Cool thing is burgers will actually end up being cheaper when this becomes ubiquitous(I think).

Bring back 50 cent burgers!

 

[GoGetter24]

I guess it was just a drive by communist remark.

Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!

 

[DVU]

Here is an unpopular opinion:

(I agree with the original post and would like to bring this up to discuss)

All the complaining 15$/h people are complaining because they don't know any different.

Mindset as the OP pointed out.

In their heads, it is how it has to be and it can't change. Its what they have been thought.

If someone has been taught their whole life that 2+2=3(they are poor/not rich by someone else's choice), and random people here and there telling them its 4, wont really change their opinion because they have believed that it is 3, and to switch to 4(everything is my fault and not the "system") would be just "too much" to handle. So they reject it because on top of "too much to handle" come 99% of people around them think the same. And if everyone around me is saying its 3, then it must be true.

It's not like they choose the shittier path by choice when on the other side is Fastlane and the good life.

I guess some people just cope with it while others just reject it and look for another truth.

So shouldn't we be blaming/talking about someone/something else than just simply pointing the finger at 15$/h people and saying they are just stupid for not doing anything else?

I'm just trying to understand how they think and what is the reason they stay in that "its unfair and I should have more" mindset.

 

[Sagemoney]

Here is an unpopular opinion:

(I agree with the original post and would like to bring this up to discuss)

All the complaining 15$/h people are complaining because they don't know any different.

Mindset as the OP pointed out.

In their heads, it is how it has to be and it can't change. Its what they have been thought.

If someone has been taught their whole life that 2+2=3(they are poor/not rich by someone else's choice), and random people here and there telling them its 4, wont really change their opinion because they have believed that it is 3, and to switch to 4(everything is my fault and not the "system") would be just "too much" to handle. So they reject it because on top of "too much to handle" come 99% of people around them think the same. And if everyone around me is saying its 3, then it must be true.

It's not like they choose the shittier path by choice when on the other side is Fastlane and the good life.

I guess some people just cope with it while others just reject it and look for another truth.

So shouldn't we be blaming/talking about someone/something else than just simply pointing the finger at 15$/h people and saying they are just stupid for not doing anything else?

I'm just trying to understand how they think and what is the reason they stay in that "its unfair and I should have more" mindset.

To put it succinctly...comfort.

It's human nature to resist change especially in a hyperconnected world with mountains of delicious dopamine dripping from every device.

Unscripted actually answers your last question very thoroughly.

It's much easier to want someone to GIVE you more rather determining what you can GIVE to them to make yourself more valuable.

Some people will never have the desire to better themselves, After reading TMF I bought some copies for my friends and handed them out because they continue to ask me "Sage why have you been so happy lately?!?"(lol I hate this because it makes it seem like a bible.) I politely asked them to read a few chapters. I check in a few weeks later and not a single one has read anything but the first thing they ask me is if I watched X show on Netflix!!! while scrolling through Instagram.

The will to change/make choices is the most powerful tool at our disposal. So yes what we blame is the SCRIPT for teaching everyone to live this way, everyone on this forum was once apart of that script until we made the CHOICE to find another path.

So shouldn't we be blaming/talking about someone/something else than just simply pointing the finger at 15$/h people and saying they are just stupid for not doing anything else?


Nope, Because you always have control over your life. Even with outside influence you always have control. Even in the face of death or doing something disgusting. You still have the choice to die.

 

[Gunther Herzog]

It is one the biggest flaw in the capital system. A woker works his a$$ off and he still does not get his share of the profit. There is a minimum salary limit whereas there is not a maximum salary cap. Billionaires can earn on the blood and sweat of poor workers and they get away with it.

Never heard anything this twisted and this SCRIPTED. It is exactly the other way around.

Employee:
Hard work? Well maybe from 9 to 5. Monday to friday. Probably not really. What does he do then? Goes home, watches TV, plays video games, drinks beer, rants about the rich guys. But isn`t producing any value.

Founder/CEO:
Blood, sweat and tears, especially in the beginning of the fenture. Sleepless nights, partners screwing thing up, 70-100h weeks for years straight. Weekend? Forget it.
Often it is also his own money at stake, that makes things even more scary for him. He produces real value nearly all of his time he is awake!

And then, 5-10 Years later he earns more them the employee. What a surprise. How unfair.
Bullsh*t! Take responsibilty @Counter and get yourself to the top through providing value!

 

[GoGetter24]

We used to not think twice about hiring the homeless..... hired!

Good man

He talks about retiring but he has a cush job making $450,000 a year and works maybe 15 hours a week.

What kind of job pays that rate?

Its funny that a forum of so called millionaires argue about minimum wage

Would you like pepper with that salt?

The minimum wage is a classic case of a band-aid solution, that is no solution at all. All a government can do is stop things. First they made do with stopping invaders, criminals, and disputes. Then they expanded into stopping good things too. A government worker is a stopper. Case-in-chief: India, where all government workers do is stop people doing anything, until they pay an appropriate bribe that is.

So they stop people being hired below rate $X, and then it stops, and then they say "OK look, we raised living standards for workers" (conveniently ignoring the unemployed created). They are anti-social S.O.B.s, and anyone who supports them is anti-social too.

The root cause of low wages is low skills, which in turn is created by bad education, which in turn is the responsibility of bad parents. The commandable hourly rate of the average high school leaver is a joke. A 17 year old leaving any school should have some skill by which he can make at least $10/hour. Every single one of them. Anyone who feeds useless crap to a kid for 12 years, thereby leaving him useless and incapable of fending for himself, isn't even just a bad person, they're a bad animal (in the wild even mother cats give live mice to their young to train them).

We don't need minimum wages, we need minimum education standards, measured in exit dollars per hour.

Unions (which should be more widely used) are perfectly capable of guarding employees from power asymmetry (using collective action), so long as they too are competitive rather than given powers from the state. No politicians needed.

 

[minivanman]

He never says exactly what he does. He has a few degrees, 1 in computer science. It has something to do with inventory control with large companies and the government but other than that, I'm not exactly sure and we have been best friends since 1989. What ever he does, he can't/doesn't like to talk about it.

 

[chuckypita]

In that same respect, no business which depends on free traffic from the Google SERPS has any right to be in business.

In any event, I parodied the picture for your Fastlane enjoyment.

View attachment 8777

THAT POSTER IS PERFECT.

 

[LittleWolfie]

Unions (which should be more widely used) are perfectly capable of guarding employees from power asymmetry (using collective action), so long as they too are competitive rather than given powers from the state. No politicians needed.

Works well in Switzerland. Any employer that doesn't want to pay the minimum wage can always move there. A mass exodus would be a hell of a wake up call. Enjoy your prices that make Silicon Valley look affordable.

 

[GoGetter24]

Works well in Switzerland. Any employer that doesn't want to pay the minimum wage can always move there. A mass exodus would be a hell of a wake up call. Enjoy your prices that make Silicon Valley look affordable.

You've the most lingering shittiest response to business failure I've ever seen. I hope you pull your act together, stop vomiting into the internet, and man up. Good luck. Erased from feed.

 

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[The Abundant Man]

Not gonna get political or economic here... but if you're older than 22 and are still working at a minimum wage job... and HATE IT... then you really need to take a good hard look at what got you there and change your damn path.

If you were 22 that worked a minimum job and HATED IT how would you change your path?

 

[LittleWolfie]

It is one the biggest flaw in the capital system. A woker works his a$$ off and he still does not get his share of the profit. There is a minimum salary limit whereas there is not a maximum salary cap. Billionaires can earn on the blood and sweat of poor workers and they get away with it.

Doesn't Switzerland effectively have a maximum salary cap (and dividend limit) for those who own companies paying less than the living wage? Since there is no legal minimum wage, they make it so companies not paying enough for people to afford rent, transport,etc can't have any profit. If there's no profit, what's the incentive to cheap out on the workforce?

 

[LittleWolfie]

Employee:
Hard work? W. But isn`t producing any value.

The employee is producing value for the employer, otherwise they wouldn't have a job. It's a question of how much value you add, and how you monetise it.

 

[sparechange]

There was an increase to $15 in Ontario (Canada) not to long ago, lots of people got laid off and had benefits slashed.

All that does is inflate prices not accomplishing anything.

Funny enough I work with some people that have brand new cars and we are living cheque to cheque

 

[The Abundant Man]

What's everyone thoughts on Universal Basic Income?

 

[Mark_Entr]

In that same respect, no business which depends on free traffic from the Google SERPS has any right to be in business.

In any event, I parodied the picture for your Fastlane enjoyment.

View attachment 8777

- I disagree with this idea, while millions might be poor because of their bad decisions or inaction, I think millions are poor because they are born poverty, with minimal or no access to knowledge, with a ton of bad influence + facing very bad & expensive health or other circumstances which are very hard to recover from.

- I think this generalization "all the rich are brilliant & all the poor are just lazy" is a flawed & very wrong model of reality.
- I think many people like this generalization because it satisfies our subconscious moral voice, allowing us to more easily abandon the responsibility of helping the poor, justifying poverty as their fault.

to summarize:
1.I hope people embrace the entrepreneurial mindset, however:
2. the above mentioned generalization is very flawed
3. I don't think it's even theoretically possible that all humanity succeed in creating a fastlane business.

I would love to hear any counter arguments from the community

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Easily abandon the responsibility of helping the poor,

Responsibility? Logic fallacy: False Premise.

I'm sorry I missed the law or the words in the constitution that says it is my responsibility to help the poor. I was poor and no one helped me -- I helped myself. Now I pay more in taxes in 1 quarter than most people pay in twenty years. That's my contribution. Yes, that's my "fair share" to help society with education, public works, and whatever else the collective governance deems to be for the greater good, including the poor.

all the rich are brilliant & all the poor are just lazy

That was your generalization not mine, "all poor", "all rich" ... Logic fallacy: Strawman.

 

[Rabby]

Responsibility? Logic fallacy: False Premise.

I'm sorry I missed the law or the words in the constitution that says it is my responsibility to help the poor. I was poor and no one helped me -- I helped myself. Now I pay more in taxes in 1 quarter than most people pay in twenty years. That's my contribution. Yes, that's my "fair share" to help society with education, public works, and whatever else the collective governance deems to be for the greater good, including the poor.



That was your generalization not mine, "all poor", "all rich" ... Logic fallacy: Strawman.

Yes, "fair share" in quotations for sure. With progressive, multi-level taxation under threat of force, you're doing much more than your fair share. That's not even considering the knowledge and experience you give back. The beneficiaries of your tax dollar will never acknowledge your contribution, but I can say thanks... Thanks

3. I don't think it's even theoretically possible that all humanity succeed in creating a fastlane business.

I would love to hear any counter arguments from the community

They probably won't because there is a huge population of people who want nothing to do with it. They would much rather be directed in their actions. Not to mention their thoughts. And for whatever reason they're uncomfortable with wealth or personal responsibility.

That said, and with exceptions for the profoundly disabled, your assertion depends on a belief that human labor is the only direct source of production. It is not. The more you automate and systemize, the more you'll see that. Thought, planning, and artifice can magnify human output to the point where a trivial effort creates great value.

And then what? People lose their jobs and cry? No, they build the assets that produce value, one time, and then benefit from the production for years afterwards. And their neighbors, family, friends, and customers benefit. The obsession over human labor instead of actual value produced, and labor's artificial relationship with the hours in a day, is a plague.

Back to minimum wage... this thread started in 2014, wow. I actually know restaurant owners who started buying kiosks when the minimum wage "debate" (ahem, attempt at manufactured consent) heated up. At $15 per hour, certain economic realities just become too obvious. I can pay for this kiosk one time. Or I can pay this person to do the same thing, but make more mistakes, at a now-higher rate, and have to pay higher payroll taxes, still be surprised when they call in sick, etc. This is a fundamental reality of economics:

labor <----> capital

If labor becomes too expensive, I can use capital equipment to do the same thing. Labor is just cheaper than developing or buying the equipment that can replace it, for now. So get used to owning capital equipment, and using it to produce value. Or get good at something that's so valuable nobody will manufacture a replacement for it any time soon.

Raising minimum wage == depriving low skilled workers of their jobs.

If that's what ya wanna do, fine. Hell, I'm interested in seeing all the burger-flipping robots people are inventing now. But now whose responsibility is it to train the low skilled workers to do harder things? Theirs? But you told them you were saving them by sticking it to the man right? Or do we watch them become impoverished because you wanted to raise wages without even a basic economic understanding? Or shall we threaten to kill or imprison the higher skilled people so you can give their money to the ones whose jobs you abolished with your minimum wage stuff? The morality of that is what you make of it.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

My thoughts on the minimum wage argument is that I don't know if it will actually work.

But one thing that has fascinated me is the moral indignation that comes up regarding this topic. A huge portion of the population is, to be blunt, simply too stupid to achieve much in either the fast lane or the slow lane.

But that isn't to say that they can't offer useful contributions to society as a whole, and I think that an advanced society such as this should look for ways to lift its people out of poverty (while still acknowledging that unfortunately, poverty will always exist).