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[RANT]: Raise the minimum wage! This is so unfair!

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twdavis

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I see people posting this picture and similar ones all the time on my Facebook timeline all with the same message, but for some reason today it irritated me more than usual.

The simplest delta between the Slowlane/Sidewalk lifestyle and the Fastlane lifestyle is:

***Drumroll**


Mindset



jxcY7pb.png



Wahh wahhh boo hoo.


The 99% needs to shut the f*ck up and get off their a$$ and create value so that you can be that "CEO" guy.

Technically, the last girl is headed in the right direction, maybe. Just depends where her "second online income" is coming from and how much time it's costing her.

About a year ago, I was these people. I thought the exact same way they do, which is the same way my mother and most of my family still does. Complaining because "the price of groceries is going up! This is outrageous", well maybe you people should do something about that! Yanno...something other than continuing down the same path of insignificance that society pre-subscribes you to.

I mean I know this is constantly talked about on here, but it took me until this year to really flip my mindset from "value-consumer" to "value-producer", and everything that goes along with it, and also it took me until this year to realize that this is how roughly 99.999997% of people think.
Then they get to be 65 or late 50s and I have to hear them whine and bitch because they worked all their lives and have back problems and now they have nothing to show for their 50+ years of toil.

I mean is this REALLY how most people are content living and thinking?
 
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SBS.95

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I have a habit of straying close to breaking the "no political talk" rule. So I'll just give you the +rep and see myself out.

Have to get one comment in though:

The MINIMUM wage is not, nor was ever meant to be, nor ever should be, the LIVING wage. They are not the same. Why the f*ck anyone would ever want to only be "the minimum" is beyond me.

I have to go now before I get too riled up.
 

twdavis

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I have a habit of straying close to breaking the "no political talk" rule. So I'll just give you the +rep and see myself out.

Have to get one comment in though:

The MINIMUM wage is not, nor was ever meant to be, nor ever should be, the LIVING wage. They are not the same. Why the f*ck anyone would ever want to only be "the minimum" is beyond me.

I have to go now before I get too riled up.

Thank you lol.

As you said, I'm also going to just leave the political side of this go and keep it strictly Fastlane oriented. I could go on for years
 

Mr.B

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MJ DeMarco

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Yup, I see a picture with 3 paths... hopefully the coincidence isn't lost on the folks here. ;)
 

Mbc

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Have to get one comment in though:

The MINIMUM wage is not, nor was ever meant to be, nor ever should be, the LIVING wage. They are not the same. Why the f*ck anyone would ever want to only be "the minimum" is beyond me.

Not to start a political debate either. But that is EXACTLY what the minimum wage was meant to be:
"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."
-President Franklin Roosevelt

Now maybe you don't agree with him, which is fine, but don't go rewriting history.

I would also be careful in assuming that it's a bad thing for society if the minimum wage was a living wage.

This should be more of an economic debate than a political one. (as if that could happen though)
 

SBS.95

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Not to start a political debate either. But that is EXACTLY what the minimum wage was meant to be:
"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."
-President Franklin Roosevelt

Now maybe you don't agree with him, which is fine, but don't go rewriting history.

I would also be careful in assuming that it's a bad thing for society if the minimum wage was a living wage.

This should be more of an economic debate than a political one. (as if that could happen though)

I'll bite. Guess this shows my (lack of) self-control. I tried, I really tried. :(

The first time the idea of a "minimum wage" was kicked around was 1912, long before FDR. This is what I was referring to in my earlier post. At the time when it was established in Massachusetts, it was intended for women and children.

Now I'm not trying to be sexist here, but this is 1912, so stick with me. "Women and children" basically meant simple and uneducated. Again, not my opinion, but we're talking about a decade before knee-skirt-wearing flappers were a thing. This is a time period when a man was the sole earner for a family, so to have this wage rate established for women and children (read: not men) meant that it was not intended for the primary money maker of the household.

This was not a law created for the men of 1912. Which is to say, this was not a law created for those earning a living in 1912. When we adopted minimum wage nationwide years later--that's when this whole minimum=living wage thing began.

FDR's opinion on the matter does not change mine. If we want to bring this back to economics; I believe the market should decide what the minimum wage is, not some slimy politician who's simply pandering to his constituents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States
 
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"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."
-President Franklin Roosevelt

In that same respect, no business which depends on free traffic from the Google SERPS has any right to be in business.

In any event, I parodied the picture for your Fastlane enjoyment.

minumum-wage-and-responsibility.jpg
 
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Trivium iz rC

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It's always funny when talking to someone with the "Entitlement" mindset & the whole minimum wage issue.

"I've been working at McDonalds for 8 years as a fry cook and i'm only making $8.10/hr". McDonalds/Wal-Mart should be paying us $15.

I always tell friends that are stuck in the rat race that McDonalds & Wal-Mart don't control the price of labor THE MARKET & your skills do. No ones putting a gun to your head and saying "Your My Slave Now You Must Work Here Forever" as any other job in the states you have a right to quit or leave if your not satisfied with the work place or work pay.

A cashiers job, fry cook, retail clerk are all jobs made for people entering the work force with no experience, not for some 32 year old man/women to work trying to raise a family of 3.

There are plenty of opportunities in these big corporations to move up but sadly, "The Entitlement" disease has crippled many americans to say "I want the pay raise, but I don't want the responsibility & hard work of the higher paying jobs."

"Ya I support higher wages for Wal-Mart employees" Yet no one would votes with there wallet.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Peter+Schiff+Wal-mart

"But Kosta you're not being fair CNN says the middle class is shrinking" Ya the middle class is shrinking and you're right, in 2008 there was a fork in the road for the middle that said "Wealthy" or "Poverty". Some chose wealth and some chose poverty, we don't live in the industrial age anymore were you can work in a factory for 40 years & do mindless work then retire. You have to be constantly improving and adding skills to your tool box & adapting to change in the Information Age. Those who can't adapt or improve in business or work will lose.

What the poor and middle class don't understand is, it's not the minimum wage that's the problem. The decreasing purchasing power of the dollar is the main enemy for the middle class and the poor. It doesn't matter if the minimum wage gets raise to $20/hr if they keep inflating & doing QE it won't matter how much you get paid an hour because your purchasing power will go down the toilet.

To everyone who read my post we are living in the greatest time the world has ever seen, We have all the information of the world in our finger tips, and you can literally learn any skill you want to online & improve yourself Physically, Mentally, Emotionally. Yet all people do is complain.
 

Mbc

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I'll bite. Guess this shows my (lack of) self-control. I tried, I really tried. :(

The first time the idea of a "minimum wage" was kicked around was 1912, long before FDR. This is what I was referring to in my earlier post. At the time when it was established in Massachusetts, it was intended for women and children.

Now I'm not trying to be sexist here, but this is 1912, so stick with me. "Women and children" basically meant simple and uneducated. Again, not my opinion, but we're talking about a decade before knee-skirt-wearing flappers were a thing. This is a time period when a man was the sole earner for a family, so to have this wage rate established for women and children (read: not men) meant that it was not intended for the primary money maker of the household.

This was not a law created for the men of 1912. Which is to say, this was not a law created for those earning a living in 1912. When we adopted minimum wage nationwide years later--that's when this whole minimum=living wage thing began.

FDR's opinion on the matter does not change mine. If we want to bring this back to economics; I believe the market should decide what the minimum wage is, not some slimy politician who's simply pandering to his constituents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

Is Roosevelt a slimy politician? He's a great example of a man who lived up to his potential. Politicians pander to everyone; constituents, companies. It's what they do.

Anyway I don't vote, and I'm not american, so I don't really give a f*ck what you do with your minimum wage. And I'm not at all emotionally involved.
Some economists say it's actually better for the economy to have a higher minimum wage. Or maybe they would just spend it on more debt and consumer goods like MJ is saying.
Either way, it merits actual empirical research and proper debate.
 

twdavis

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The think I've also found is that most people from the baby boomer era don't want to hear this.

Go over to Reddit, especially the /r/PersonalFinance or pretty much any other sub pertaining to money and finance today in terms of wealth building.


This one guy posted in a thread recently (I lost the thread):

Literally the only way to get rich is:

1. Be born into a family that started a company years ago (Gee cause that's impossible to do today)
2. Win the lottery


I lost a few IQ points.
 
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twdavis

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Is Roosevelt a slimy politician? He's a great example of a man who lived up to his potential. Politicians pander to everyone; constituents, companies. It's what they do.

Anyway I don't vote, and I'm not american, so I don't really give a f*ck what you do with your minimum wage. And I'm not at all emotionally involved.
Some economists say it's actually better for the economy to have a higher minimum wage. Or maybe they would just spend it on more debt and consumer goods like MJ is saying.
Either way, it merits actual empirical research and proper debate.

Hey, let's not forget, the people that we (myself) are bitching about (the minimum wage bitchers) are the reason there's a Fastlane in the first place.


"Help the slowlane continue to live the slowlane, so you can live the Fastlane"


;)
 

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The fact of the matter is that if you are truly worth more than you are getting paid you could get it elsewhere. There is a market rate for labor just like there is a market rate for everything else. Why should I ever pay someone more than they are worth?

If I were a stockholder in a company that decided to take a dumb stance and pay living wages to unskilled workers I would sell my stake immediately.

Not only should we not raise it... There should be no minimum wage at all.
 

KLaw

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The fact of the matter is that if you are truly worth more than you are getting paid you could get it elsewhere. There is a market rate for labor just like there is a market rate for everything else. Why should I ever pay someone more than they are worth?

If I were a stockholder in a company that decided to take a dumb stance and pay living wages to unskilled workers I would sell my stake immediately.

Not only should we not raise it... There should be no minimum wage at all.

How do you actually determine an employee's worth?
 
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Kak

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How do you actually determine an employee's worth?

What is the task worth to you? What are people willing to do it for? What are the industry standard labor rates for the work at hand?

It's not rocket science.

If I have 6 people lined up and ready to do a task for 100 dollars and one guy wants 150 for the same task obviously I won't hire the 150 guy. Labor is a buyer's market folks. Unskilled labor is almost a commodity.;)
 
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SBS.95

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Is Roosevelt a slimy politician? He's a great example of a man who lived up to his potential. Politicians pander to everyone; constituents, companies. It's what they do.

Anyway I don't vote, and I'm not american, so I don't really give a f*ck what you do with your minimum wage. And I'm not at all emotionally involved.
Some economists say it's actually better for the economy to have a higher minimum wage. Or maybe they would just spend it on more debt and consumer goods like MJ is saying.
Either way, it merits actual empirical research and proper debate.

1) Calm down. My reply was pretty lighthearted, I don't know why you're freaking out.

2) FDR was a very good war-time President, but that hardly means I have to agree with every one of his socialist ideas. The "slimy politicians" comment was not in reference to him.

3) If you "don't give a f*ck" about the American minimum wage, why are you in a thread about the American minimum wage? You tried to discredit my earlier post, so obviously you have an opinion on the topic. Share it.

4) "Some economists" saying something is not an argument. For someone who talks of proper debate, you have little.

-----

I believe a higher minimum wage is worse for the economy. It leads to inflation. So the Wal-Mart employee making $12/hour instead of $8/hour is happy for about 14 seconds before he realizes that a Big Mac now costs $7 instead of $4.

My other reservation is that it will just lead to a loss of jobs, which, being as the American infrastructure is still in pretty shit shape, is the last thing we need. When McDonalds is forced to pay employees $12/hour instead of $8/hour, they will find ways to cut costs. It will be more economically viable for them to invest in technology that outsources employees. No one will take your order, you will use a touch screen. We have cars that can drive themselves, you don't think we can have a machine that lowers shredded potatoes into a fryer for 30 seconds?
 

KLaw

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What is the task worth to you? What are people willing to do it for?

If I have 6 people lined up and ready to do a task for 100 dollars and one guy wants 150 for the same task obviously I won't hire the 150 guy. Labor is a buyer's market folks. ;)
I dont think it's that simple. Let's say the $100 guy does exactly as you expect - nothing more - and has a negative attitude about your company. This attitude affects other team members' attitudes. Now, lets say the $150 guy does exactly as you expect, but has a great attitude and is always looking to promote your company and goes above and beyond your expectations?
 
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Kak

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I dont think it's that simple. Let's say the $100 guy does exactly as you expect - nothing more - and has a negative attitude about your company. This attitude affects other team members' attitudes. Now, lets say the $150 guy does exactly as you expect, but has a great attitude and is always looking to promote your company and goes above and beyond your expectations?

I don't have time for the classic Klaw argue in circles bullshit.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and educate yourself like the "CEO Guy" and do some research on supply and demand of labor.
 

Mr.B

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I dont think it's that simple.

It is that simple. Unless the person doing the hiring is an idiot.

I don't have time for the classic Klaw argue in circles bullshit.

I'm not looking to argue in circles either, just to clarify.

I'm the '$150 guy' and have no trouble getting work. However, this is because I provide a lot more value than the '$100 guys'.
 

KLaw

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I don't have time for the classic Klaw argue in circles bullshit.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and educate yourself like the "CEO Guy" and do some research on supply and demand of labor.

I am not "arguing" anything. I am just trying to understand how different folks evaluate an employee's worth. In the words of Aaron Rodgers: R-E-L-A-X. So much for an engaging conversation. Later.
 
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The fact of the matter is that if you are truly worth more than you are getting paid you could get it elsewhere. There is a market rate for labor just like there is a market rate for everything else. Why should I ever pay someone more than they are worth?

Totally agree. The problem is people are loathe to work harder in their job until they are paid for it. They don't understand the concept that to get a pay rise they HAVE to provide the increased value FIRST.

Technically if you want to better yourself in your job you will always be in a position of being underpaid as you constantly strive to provide MORE value to get yet ANOTHER pay rise. Most people on minimum wage see their pay per hour not as a ladder but as their position in life.

I like the late, great Jim Rohn's take on minimum wage:

 

The-J

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Not gonna get political or economic here... but if you're older than 22 and are still working at a minimum wage job... and HATE IT... then you really need to take a good hard look at what got you there and change your damn path.
 

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Kid Money

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I don't have time for the classic Klaw argue in circles bullshit.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and educate yourself like the "CEO Guy" and do some research on supply and demand of labor.


Damn that was good. Laughed my a$$ off. On a serious note to Klaws hypothetical question. One thing you learn as a business owner is that literally anyone can be replaced. I guarantee you can find 100 workers that will bust a$$ just as much as the more expensive guy. You might have to go through a few but you'll eventually find a hard working person that works hard AND has all of the best intentions and pay them accordingly. You go promote my business and land me 20k in work then I have no problem giving you a cut.
 

socaldude

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Notice how they try to subconsciously influence your perception with the wage trio.

The CEO guy is fat and is colored red. Fat is greed. Red is danger, death and destruction.

These beliefs regarding wealth are becoming more prevalent in our society. Becoming wealthy means you did it by screwing others over.

Despite the laws of economics say that being entrepreneurial is one of the best things you can do to help the wealth of society in general.
 

RHL

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I propose that mustaches, top hats, canes, and monocles are mandatory attire for Fastlane Meetup 2015.

On a serious note, a fitness instructor/model whose workouts my wife follows has a saying I really like, because even though it's not applied to money in her context at all it's 100% applicable-

"Make the same choices, get the same results."

It's really the heart of the fastlane, and something that I was really dissapointed that I never figured out before TMF . Why would you waste time bitching about the CEO guy, which changes nothing, when you could spend the same amount of time *becoming* the CEO guy???

*EDIT, JUST SAW THIS:

>The CEO guy is fat and is colored red. Fat is greed. Red is danger, death and destruction.

Yep, and it's funny because wanting something you haven't earned is the definition of greed, and obesity is far more prevalent among the first "path" on that chart than the last one. If you're too fat, you won't be able to fasten the seat belt in your Countach. Just ask Matt Farah.

*EDITEDIT: HOLY IRONY GOLD BATMAN.

I just ran the hash tag of the girl who posted the original meme on facebook. Guess what Novaelife is. Take a guess. Go on. I dare you.
http://www.novaelife.com/
http://www.novaelife.com/

You guessed it! Although it camouflages itself as an entrepreneurship coaching program that "doesn't want to sell you anything," at the bottom of the page are three very expensive starter kits that you can't buy without entering the name of the person that referred you. Although info is limited, it walks and quacks like that paragon of the sidewalk, an MLM.

"I'm earning extra income online." No you're not, you're being sold as a product and action-faking on the sidewalk. Damn is this depressing.
 
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Even Steven

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Totally agree. The problem is people are loathe to work harder in their job until they are paid for it. They don't understand the concept that to get a pay rise they HAVE to provide the increased value FIRST.

Technically if you want to better yourself in your job you will always be in a position of being underpaid as you constantly strive to provide MORE value to get yet ANOTHER pay rise. Most people on minimum wage see their pay per hour not as a ladder but as their position in life.

I like the late, great Jim Rohn's take on minimum wage:


Wow. Last 15 seconds of that video are pure gold. Thanks for posting @RazorCut .
 

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