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[RANT]: Raise the minimum wage! This is so unfair!

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Kevin88660

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My thoughts on the minimum wage argument is that I don't know if it will actually work.

But one thing that has fascinated me is the moral indignation that comes up regarding this topic. A huge portion of the population is, to be blunt, simply too stupid to achieve much in either the fast lane or the slow lane.

But that isn't to say that they can't offer useful contributions to society as a whole, and I think that an advanced society such as this should look for ways to lift its people out of poverty (while still acknowledging that unfortunately, poverty will always exist).
I do not think it is the right policy either.

But it is good to have some form of basic social safety net/income supplement, even from a businessman’s point of views.

It is not that easy to make money in an environment where most people are dead broke.

If you look at the latest development in business-AI/automation/offline to online..fundamentally it is about Cost Cutting.

Global Business Community loves the good old days when North America and Europe loads on debt and do binge consumption. I mean it literally.
 
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abcdefgh

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I see people posting this picture and similar ones all the time on my Facebook timeline all with the same message, but for some reason today it irritated me more than usual.

The simplest delta between the Slowlane/Sidewalk lifestyle and the Fastlane lifestyle is:

***Drumroll**


Mindset



jxcY7pb.png



Wahh wahhh boo hoo.


The 99% needs to shut the f*ck up and get off their a$$ and create value so that you can be that "CEO" guy.

Technically, the last girl is headed in the right direction, maybe. Just depends where her "second online income" is coming from and how much time it's costing her.

About a year ago, I was these people. I thought the exact same way they do, which is the same way my mother and most of my family still does. Complaining because "the price of groceries is going up! This is outrageous", well maybe you people should do something about that! Yanno...something other than continuing down the same path of insignificance that society pre-subscribes you to.

I mean I know this is constantly talked about on here, but it took me until this year to really flip my mindset from "value-consumer" to "value-producer", and everything that goes along with it, and also it took me until this year to realize that this is how roughly 99.999997% of people think.
Then they get to be 65 or late 50s and I have to hear them whine and bitch because they worked all their lives and have back problems and now they have nothing to show for their 50+ years of toil.

I mean is this REALLY how most people are content living and thinking?
Yes, yes it is. They are perfectly content bitching about other people's prosperity, rather than focusing on what they can do to better themselves.

It's far easier to criticize others than it is to reflect on one's own decisions.
 

abcdefgh

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My thoughts on the minimum wage argument is that I don't know if it will actually work.

But one thing that has fascinated me is the moral indignation that comes up regarding this topic. A huge portion of the population is, to be blunt, simply too stupid to achieve much in either the fast lane or the slow lane.

But that isn't to say that they can't offer useful contributions to society as a whole, and I think that an advanced society such as this should look for ways to lift its people out of poverty (while still acknowledging that unfortunately, poverty will always exist).
Poverty is relative. What's considered poverty in America is considered middle class in Guatemala. Absolute poverty is like 1% of the population in America.

The reason minimum wage doesn't work is because it increases unemployment. Wages are the price for labor. Like any price, it's regulated by supply and demand.

The price for something stabilizes at the point where the quantity demanded (jobs offered with certain qualifications) is equal to the quantity supplied (candidates for jobs who have such qualifications).

When you artificially raise the price of labor (through minimum wage), the supply of labor exceeds the demand for it. This creates an unsellable surplus of labor. This unsellable surplus is commonly referred to as unemployment.
 

Mark_Entr

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That was your generalization not mine, "all poor", "all rich" ... Logic fallacy: Strawman

You're probably right regarding the written words being my generalization, however, the picture does imply them, don't you think ?
- people would see the poster & think "the poor are just lazy".
 
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Kevin88660

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You're probably right regarding the written words being my generalization, however, the picture does imply them, don't you think ?
- people would see the poster & think "the poor are just lazy".
There are hardworking and lazy people in slow lane and minimum wage job. I think there are comparative less lazy business people because it is very demanding to deal with so many aspects but I do not want to generalize.

I think it is especially true in this economic climate. In Singapore there are people who work in retail in day time and drive delivery at weekends To make more money. I definitely will not say that they are lazy. Probably they are not academically inclined at school when they are young to make in college.

There is also a lot of anxiety For office workers in the slow lane. There is constant fear of jobs getting outsourced or replaced by AI. There is constant pressure to get another industry certification, or “learn to code” or “network to know the right people”.

Business owners of course are the ones taking the most risk, and in this post 2008 and post Covid economy, took the biggest hit.

There isn’t so much of a “class animosity” here Where I live because everyone sort of intuitively know the it is extremely hard to be a business owner. When the workers work in small companies they see how their employers bust their a$$, risking their houses taken away by the bank. You see it everyday when you work for them.
 

P789

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In that same respect, no business which depends on free traffic from the Google SERPS has any right to be in business.

In any event, I parodied the picture for your Fastlane enjoyment.

View attachment 8777
I have some serious rant about “being poor is not a choice”.

Article after article and debate after debate, most people say that being poor is not a choice but a reflection of society.

This is one of the articles made by an online newspaper based here in the Philippines.

And what is the point here. They make excuses to help themselves.
 

Kevin88660

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I have some serious rant about “being poor is not a choice”.

Article after article and debate after debate, most people say that being poor is not a choice but a reflection of society.

This is one of the articles made by an online newspaper based here in the Philippines.

And what is the point here. They make excuses to help themselves.
There are many hardworking people who are not getting what they want.

But I have rarely seen a lazy rich/successful person. In fact none I could recall.
 
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Mihaiio

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I see people posting this picture and similar ones all the time on my Facebook timeline all with the same message, but for some reason today it irritated me more than usual.

The simplest delta between the Slowlane/Sidewalk lifestyle and the Fastlane lifestyle is:

***Drumroll**


Mindset



jxcY7pb.png



Wahh wahhh boo hoo.


The 99% needs to shut the f*ck up and get off their a$$ and create value so that you can be that "CEO" guy.

Technically, the last girl is headed in the right direction, maybe. Just depends where her "second online income" is coming from and how much time it's costing her.

About a year ago, I was these people. I thought the exact same way they do, which is the same way my mother and most of my family still does. Complaining because "the price of groceries is going up! This is outrageous", well maybe you people should do something about that! Yanno...something other than continuing down the same path of insignificance that society pre-subscribes you to.

I mean I know this is constantly talked about on here, but it took me until this year to really flip my mindset from "value-consumer" to "value-producer", and everything that goes along with it, and also it took me until this year to realize that this is how roughly 99.999997% of people think.
Then they get to be 65 or late 50s and I have to hear them whine and bitch because they worked all their lives and have back problems and now they have nothing to show for their 50+ years of toil.

I mean is this REALLY how most people are content living and thinking?
If there was no CEO guy there would be no milk to buy
 

Kal-El1998

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People who think we need to raise the minimum wage need to take high school economics again.
 

Here

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I see people posting this picture and similar ones all the time on my Facebook timeline all with the same message, but for some reason today it irritated me more than usual.

The simplest delta between the Slowlane/Sidewalk lifestyle and the Fastlane lifestyle is:

***Drumroll**


Mindset



jxcY7pb.png



Wahh wahhh boo hoo.


The 99% needs to shut the f*ck up and get off their a$$ and create value so that you can be that "CEO" guy.

Technically, the last girl is headed in the right direction, maybe. Just depends where her "second online income" is coming from and how much time it's costing her.

About a year ago, I was these people. I thought the exact same way they do, which is the same way my mother and most of my family still does. Complaining because "the price of groceries is going up! This is outrageous", well maybe you people should do something about that! Yanno...something other than continuing down the same path of insignificance that society pre-subscribes you to.

I mean I know this is constantly talked about on here, but it took me until this year to really flip my mindset from "value-consumer" to "value-producer", and everything that goes along with it, and also it took me until this year to realize that this is how roughly 99.999997% of people think.
Then they get to be 65 or late 50s and I have to hear them whine and bitch because they worked all their lives and have back problems and now they have nothing to show for their 50+ years of toil.

I mean is this REALLY how most people are content living and thinking?
This is an old thread, so I don’t know if it’s been said, but I’m pretty sure that last girl is in an mlm. That’s why she’s posting, so others will see her post and say hey, I’d better start a business too! How do you do it? And bam, she has another member in her down line.
 
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sparechange

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Onakosa

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Minimum wage/Living wage/whatever you want to call it, as far as I'm concerned if you can't afford to pay people a decent wage then you don't have a viable business. It really is that simple.

I'm not a socialist btw. I think the whole benefits system in my country is skewed and has actually been used to subsidise the big corporations crappy wages thereby keeping them low for the last 20 years.

This is a massive topic and as per @Mbc above, it's an economic argument not really a political one.
 

GPM

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Minimum wage/Living wage/whatever you want to call it, as far as I'm concerned if you can't afford to pay people a decent wage then you don't have a viable business. It really is that simple.

I'm not a socialist btw. I think the whole benefits system in my country is skewed and has actually been used to subsidise the big corporations crappy wages thereby keeping them low for the last 20 years.

This is a massive topic and as per @Mbc above, it's an economic argument not really a political one.
A "decent wage" is what you accept for your time. If it was not decent you would not work there.

Or tell me what is decent? $15/hr. $25/hr? Why not just make it $100/hr?
 
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Rabby

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Good God, look how small that HDTV is, he can barely enjoy playing GTA on his PS4 in the air-conditioned 3 bedroom apartment full of snacks. I know PhDs in other countries, teaching engineering and medicine full time, who are worse off in terms of quality of life.

The poorest working people here have more because of one thing, and that's markets. Tear the markets apart if you want, but you'll be striking the wrong enemy... and it'll only make things worse.
 

Onakosa

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A "decent wage" is what you accept for your time. If it was not decent you would not work there.

Or tell me what is decent? $15/hr. $25/hr? Why not just make it $100/hr?
It's relative to where you live. I believe that it is cheaper to live in Malaysia or Bolivia than in London or New York. Ergo a decent wage in Malaysia or Bolivia would be lower than in London or New York.
 

Lyinx

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a new argument for banning the minimum wage: The average worker in the US is not grateful to have a job

real-life example: Worker was working for construction guy, the worker drops some nails by accident... the driver of the work crew decided to be helpful and picked the nails up, and hands them to this worker. Worker puts out his hands to receive the nails, looks directly into the driver's face, and then drops the nails on the ground. For some reason he had an attitude against everyone :(Long story short, he's fired from the other job that he had due to similar reasons... this is the man's 4'th job in 3 years :(

Another person's husband wouldn't work when they first got married (attitude problems, just like worker, or similar) and got it turned around. He had to lose all of his money, and start from the ground up, and then he became thankful to have a job.

The average worker in the US is not grateful to have a job, they think that they are entitled to it. They will need to lose it all in order to gain appreciation for a job again.

An entitled employee will not create value, they are looking to just get paid. Once an employee becomes grateful to have a job, then they will start to create value...
 
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MJ DeMarco

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a0k68ZJEQU


Awesome little youtube clip

I know someones going to comment on the video games..

Sure, I will.

Let's see...

Big gas guzzling luxury car with custom rims and tires. Check. :check:
PS4 with $1000s in games and accessories. Check. :check:
Crying poor me about the system. Check. :check:

The average American has no idea what real poverty looks like ... that is, unless they AirPlay this PBS segment from their iPhone 12 to their brand new 72" 4K TV.

Today's "impoverished Americans" live like yesterday's emperors.

It is almost comedic.

Reminds me of this Ronnie Chiang monologue...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGEAiUeiaKs
 

Simon Angel

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Sure, I will.

Let's see...

Big gas guzzling luxury car with custom rims and tires. Check. :check:
PS4 with $1000s in games and accessories. Check. :check:
Crying poor me about the system. Check. :check:

The average American has no idea what real poverty looks like ... that is, unless they AirPlay this PBS segment from their iPhone 12 to their brand new 72" 4K TV.

Today's "impoverished Americans" live like yesterday's emperors.

It is almost comedic.

Reminds me of this Ronnie Chiang monologue...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGEAiUeiaKs

Well-put. I was just about to comment on how marginally different a minimum wage-earning American's quality of life is compared to an individual from an Eastern European country, but then again, we're all spoiled and privileged. Even in my rotted post-soviet era "democratic" country. Americans are used to a certain standard and they base off their entitled behaviour on that. If most people had the capacity and self-awareness to realize what it's like for the majority of the world's population, they'd never complain ever again.

Just look south, or east. Hell.
 

P789

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Related to that, a student from a prestigious university here in the Philippines Tweeted this, rejecting the offer of the salary of P37,000 thinking she deserved P60,000 for an entry level job and it exposed the reality of the Filipino Workers.

View: https://twitter.com/legitrosho/status/1388183171796070406?s=20
 
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ZF Lee

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Related to that, a student from a prestigious university here in the Philippines Tweeted this, rejecting the offer of the salary of P37,000 thinking she deserved P60,000 for an entry level job and it exposed the reality of the Filipino Workers.

View: https://twitter.com/legitrosho/status/1388183171796070406?s=20
Entry-level marketing associate...

In the old days, copywriters like John Carlton and even Dan Kennedy were stuck to 100% commissions rate. Which means your marketing pieces had to sell, or else you don’t get paid a SINGLE cent.

no base pay or expenses or whatever.
Commissions.

I guess now if agencies tried to do this, they would totally get a backlash.

So maybe such a pay isn’t that bad after all?

I personally wouldn’t mind working my way up to bigger accounts (and higher pay), but I hate it when I had to work with junior copywriters who just wrote like paper-mills for decent brands.
 

MitchM

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Like with so many issues, I think we try to fix a social problem with a policy solution.

I'm not an idealist who believes that everyone can be well off, but if you see the economic landscape of the U.S. as one where there is mobility for those with valuable skills - a hierarchy that rewards you for competence - then you will at least put in the effort to find some success.

The problem is, such a large percentage of our population is completely brainwashed. Everyone focuses on outcomes and disparities. Responsibility is almost never discussed. Methods for coping are much more marketable.

Hearing messages that communicate "it's not your fault" and "f*ck those people" serves as an anti-depressant for so many people. Then you get the negative feedback loop of lack of owner-ship -> worse results -> more coping/attention to media that feeds it.

Our whole incentive structure on social media is warped, and I consider the people who are stuck in it unfortunate.

Being dealt a bad hand isn't earning minimum wage. Being dealt a bad hand is earning minimum wage and not thinking you can do anything to improve it.

Like others have said, being poor in the US today is like being a king a few hundred years ago. Unfortunately, this knowledge doesn't help.

Humans are social creatures. We compare ourselves to others. When the perceived distance between yourself and another person is too great, conspiracy and ignorance often fill the gaps.

If those same people weren't so mentally tortured, they would see the difference isn't that great.

The true gap in America isn't money. Sure, money is a much bigger obstacle for some than others. But I think the true gap is belief.

Those that believe they have the power to improve their lives, that don't worry about what other people are up to all the time - that's the "1%."

Two men can make $50k a year. One can be financially savvy and be happy with what he has and make a plan for progress if he wants. The other can feel like he has been f*cked by the world.

Which one is winning?
 

P789

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So maybe such a pay isn’t that bad after all?
IF living in the province, it isn't bad, however in the capital, the pay is bad. Its because based on the data, the average rent in Metro Manila is almost P51,000 per month but the rest of the provinces, the rate is less than P15,000 in provincial cities.
 
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Dora Wi

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This is an old thread, so I don’t know if it’s been said, but I’m pretty sure that last girl is in an mlm. That’s why she’s posting, so others will see her post and say hey, I’d better start a business too! How do you do it? And bam, she has another member in her down line.
That was my first thought as well. It's quite ironic given the fact that an overwhelming majority of MLM'ers end up earning even less than minimum wage.
 

Lyinx

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I'll share a different story than most here, where a company is raising the $$$/hr rate of their employees and their business is booming!

In my local area, there is a huge supply/demand gap for labor. 100's of job openings, but not so many workers.

The company that I'm talking about just started a few years ago, they are offering quite a lot more per hour for starting workers. As a result, they can hire quite a few people. As a result of hiring this many people, they can often do jobs sooner than other companies in the local area, therefore, they can charge more, which lets them hire more workers at a higher rate, and raise their prices even more.

Basically, they end up with a monopoly on local work done (in the long run) if they keep raising the wages and no other companies would be able to hire anybody (as they couldn't even compete with the wages, given time)
 

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