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Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour WW

Ubermensch

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Amazon.com: Dr. Toad's review of Awakening the Entrepreneur Within:

I'm going to check out Michael Gerber's stuff. I found these comments on Amazon.com... thought I'd ask for people's responses and opinions.

GREEN AND GROWING'S REPLY TO THE REVIEW:

The whole idea behind e-myth is building systems for your company. Does it work - all you have to do is check out the e-myth website to see the testimonials. These systems are universal to small businesses. E-myth worldwide charges less than the cost of minimum wage employee to give excellent advice to entrepreneurs. The reviewer states he is a business consultant - a technician - he's managed to create a job for himself which is fair enough but it's not a business. " No scientific (or otherwise) survey has ever pinpointed Gerber's diagnosis as a root cause for business failure." Most people have dealt with small businesses or know small businesses owners. The service level can vary greatly and many owners work very long hours - which many surveys attest to. If you look at large companies their whole infrastructure is based on having excellent systems without which they would be lost.

E-myth has helped over 50,000 small businesses directly and many thousands of others through the books written by Michael Gerber. Its your choice - a man who has created an excellent consultancy service that has served tens of thousands of businesses or a consultant who's created a job for himself.

DR. TOAD'S RESPONSE:

I do admire your trust in testimonials and your solidarity with thousands who also believe in Michael Gerber. But do you really think that a few minutes of his messianic "inspirations" during a Dreaming Room session are worth $3,000 to $5,000? You can buy a fine used car for that money and deliver a lot of "green and growing" products to customers. When you go to the sugary website inthedreamingroom.com, you'll read about the objective of the dreaming room experience: "to reach for the impossible - to separate from history - to break free, rethink, retool, reengineer, reinvent, reenergize, to discover how to create 'More Life' with every participant." It may just work for you. Dreams are unpredictable. Be aware, though, that during most of the 2 ½ days that'll cost you thousands he won't be speaking - he will just appear at chosen moments.

But his success? He has consulted with 60000 (says so in the book) businesses over 30 years!! That's 2000 a year, or 40 a week, or 8 every day. That must have been really thorough and hands-on. But no, his "business coaches" do this for him, like Santa's little helpers. Yes, by reading from a script over the telephone. Please give them a call (number on their website), they'll tell you. It's hamburger consulting, but without even the pleasure of biting into a fat-dripping bun prepared by a worker making $8.33 an hour.

For me and some of my clients, his overall demeanor of superiority, new-age babble, not really listening but preaching, his mix of prissy white-suited Tom Wolfe elegance and Austin Power's Dr. Evil is just goofy.

But that's a matter of taste and preference. And it's naughty to talk about a 72-year old gentleman that way (although he's asking for it). More detrimental for small businesses are the promises claiming that all the secrets and systems (E-Myth "systems" are ludicrous paper check lists and the like), the magic formulas and methods work almost automatically for you, requiring no effort from you, as long as you believe, close your eyes, and pay. For businesses it is true what Einstein said about his creative work: It's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Instead of such sage advise, many (not all!) of our gurus try to convince you that you can have everything for practically nothing, "Nothing down;" success through dreaming and awakening - for $5,000 it's yours; it's not difficult to become rich, but "simpleology" itself; there is "A New Earth" out there (Eckhart Tolle's mish-mash of Buddhism and Oprah); you can be a (rather callous, admittedly) "one-minute manager" who will reward and punish like an old-Testament God and as He sees fit (Ken Blanchard); there's the laudable "Rich Dad" laughing about the stupid "Poor Dad" (Kiyosaki); there's the philosophical parable about "moving my cheese" (actually entertaining for a second), and perhaps worse, you can become part of the "Newly Rich" set with a "4-Hour Workweek" by outsourcing your work to the poor suckers in the Third World and "dance tango in Buenos Aires" instead (Timothy Ferriss).

But it works sometimes, doesn't it? The testimonials and all ...? Yes, the lottery works sometimes too. And the winners (plus the lottery officials) write the testimonials.
 
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Russ H

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Herman-

I met the guy (Michael Gerber) a few years ago.

He was a jerk. Called us all idiots and stupid _____'s.

Not a very sophisticated guy.

Because of that, I didn't read his book (hard to believe the message, once you've met the messenger).

That was a mistake.

We read E-Myth a few years ago, and use it every day-- first, to streamline our business, and now, every time some problem comes up, we ask: "What kind of system can we put in place to prevent this from happening again?"

The book gives excellent advice.

I can't speak for the tutorials, etc, since we implemented his ideas into our business infrastructure without them.

Same thing happened w/Robert Kiyosaki, ironically.

I *loved* reading RK's Rich Dad books (he taught us how to be milliionaires). but after meeting the guy (not a pleasent experience), I've had a hard time picking up one of his new books and making it all the way through.

Just too much dissonance between the friendly voice I hear in the books, and the guy I met in real life.

Is that good? bad?

I dunno.

It just is.

-Russ H.
 
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Ubermensch

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Interesting, Russ. Thanks for the reply.

It is certainly true that the friendliness of the advisor has nothing to do with the soundness of his advice.

The book reviewer in question likened the successful followers of the popular wealth advisors as lottery winners. Do you think your success is repeatable by the common man, or did you just get lucky?
 

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Herman, I went looking for who Dr. Toad is and couldn't find a reference to somebody I'd like to get information, opinions or reviews from. Who is this Dr.?

If s/he has accomplished something that I can admire or respect then I will pay attention to his message. Otherwise, why bother?
It is very easy to criticize and to not propose anything constructive. In my opinion, that is what he has done here.

His comments sounds a lot like that RE "Guru" whose name I shall not name, that criticizes all the others, but he himself admits has not been a successful RE investor. Again, easy go out there and destroy others while not providing anything instead. If all of those authors and their messages are that bad then propose something else. And yes, I did notice he propose to accomplish things by 99% perspiration, but that used to work in a different economy. Today more people accomplish success by thinking how to improve things, not by simply sweating.

So, again, hopefully you or somebody else can find some relevant information about Mr. Toad (sorry, it is not Mr or Mrs, it is Dr.) so I can give some credibility to his negativity.
 
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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

" In my experience there's no such thing as luck." - Obi Wan Kenobi

And I would have to agree.
 

AroundTheWorld

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

I wonder if *a lot* of people in the public eye like that... Published "teachers".... turn out to be jerks.

If so, I wonder why.
 

KyJoe

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

" In my experience there's no such thing as luck." - Obi Wan Kenobi

And I would have to agree.
Ah come on, no such thing as luck or karma? Your getting your advice from a make believe midgit :)? What about the harder I work, the luckier I get? The one in a million shot? Sometimes it really is luck of the draw. Some things happen (good or bad) and it's out of your control, how you react to it is however up to you.
 
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WheelsRCool

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Luck is very real; you are lucky just to be born into America; we only constitute 5% of the world population. Just being born here is a blessing unto itself. Most of the world population lives in horrible squalid poverty.

Even if you count the other Westernized nations out there (Asian tigers, Japan, Europe, Australia, a few other nations of South America, etc...) combined, they still only make up a smaller portion of the world population. Most people are born into horrible conditions in Africa, Central America, South America, or Asia somewhere.

Success, IMO, is a combination of hard work meeting luck.
 

Russ H

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Herman said:
It is certainly true that the friendliness of the advisor has nothing to do with the soundness of his advice.

The book reviewer in question likened the successful followers of the popular wealth advisors as lottery winners. Do you think your success is repeatable by the common man, or did you just get lucky?

Friendliness had little to do with it; I was more surprised at their lack of professionalism and decorum.

They both came across as guys that were trying too hard-- something they really didn't need to do, as they both had mega-best sellers on their hands, and were speaking to a roomfull of respectful admirers.

To answer your question:

Yes, our success is repeatable.

But I would not chalk it up to "luck"--rather, learning, preparation, and proper implementation.

And perseverance-- when things did not go as planned! :)

-Russ H.
 

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

" In my experience there's no such thing as luck." - Obi Wan Kenobi

And I would have to agree.

Don't let PEERless hear ya say that :smxB:
 
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PEERless

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Don't let PEERless hear ya say that :smxB:

I KNOW!!! Jumping in right now to say it's all in how you look at things. If luck is just the meeting of preparation and opportunity, focus on increasing those two things. For 10 easy steps toward better luck, call now!

Anyway, I was going to add a famous quote about how you should never meet your heroes, but I can't find the original quote. It's something like:

"One should never meet his heroes," for upon personally meeting them, you will find that they are not who you thought they were. And they will be rude and bored and otherwise not as you had hoped.
 

fanocks2003

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Some people naturally resonate with each other, others don't.
Some people get it, some don't.
Some people think certain things is hogwash, some don't.
Some people think everything is better as is, other's don't.

I can go on infinitum.

The point is: There will never be a situation where everyone agrees on anything. See it as a universal truth if you want.

Say that a tree is green and there will be someone cursing you and telling you how utterly wrong you are. Even if you prove the exisitence of green trees there will always be someone telling you are blind or that you have very vivid imagination. Always.

If Mr. Gerber is someone to follow or not: Ask yourself if you belive him or not. Ask yourself if you believe he is a phony or not. That is the truth. I may like the guy (I have never read his stuff, but hey, I might like it when I read it. Just hedging, cause I usually find at least one great thing in everything I read), but that is my truth. Not yours. So don't trust me or my words:). Only interpret what it is I like in this guys message.

I like everything that furthers my cause, and so do everyone else reading this forum. Everyone in this world has their own agenda. If this Mr. Gerber furthers your cause, then I guess you see him as a trustworthy and cool guy. Simple as that. Do Mr. Gerber further your cause or is he not?

And finally: Wouldn't you be bored to tears if you had to meet people every damn day that questions your message? I know I would be. I know how it is. All these people asking, mostly, stupid questions. Even though you have answered the same question like a thousand times before.

And yes, there really is utterly stupid questions out there. The one who said "There is no stupid questions", clearly hadn't experienced stupid questions enough. Never encourage people to ask their questions. Limit their choices to extremely relevant ones or throw them out if they can't comply.
 

Russ H

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

fanocks2003 said:
Never encourage people to ask their questions.
Limit their choices to extremely relevant ones or throw them out if they can't comply.
These forums would be pretty quiet if we did that.

Although prohibiting posts on religion, politics, self-victimization, MLM, and self-promotion/SPAM is certainly "limiting some choices".

*******

Still, I come from a family of teachers.

I really do believe there is no such thing as a stupid question.

Questions typically indicate that the person asking wants to learn, and grow.

(sometimes the mere act of asking the question is the key for further learning).

But I respect your POV, fanocks. Not everyone is happy to answer the same questions, over and over.

-Russ H.
 
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Russ H

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

fanocks2003 said:
I like everything that furthers my cause, and so do everyone else reading this forum. Everyone in this world has their own agenda. If this Mr. Gerber furthers your cause, then I guess you see him as a trustworthy and cool guy. Simple as that. Do Mr. Gerber further your cause or is he not?

Thing is, fanocks, you make judgements about who is telling you these things.

We all do this.

You want to buy a business.

Who will give you advice you trust?

-A successful venture capitalist who has purchased and grown dozens of similar ventures?
-A guy who never bought a single biz, but just wrote a best selling book on the topic?
-An 18 year old guy who says he's an expert-- but has never bought a biz-- he just has strong opinions?

Personally, I'd choose the venture capitalist (and have-- several of my past clients are big time VCs).

I may listen to the 18 year old guy, or read the book.

But I'm more likely to trust the person with experience.

*******

When I met Michael Gerber for the very first time, I was very open to his message (I was at a mgt conference).

I sat and listened to a guy in an ill-fitting suit (the buttons were about to pop it was so tight).

He ranted for over an hour about how "f*cking stupid" and what G*d*mn idiots" we all were.

(the room was full of nothing but successful entrepreneurs-- every single one of them pulling down 6 figures/year).

He had a young woman dressed very sleazily selling his materials at the back of the room. She wore tight-fitting, very revealing clothes. And they were not well made-- they were obviously cheap.

When I later found out this was his daughter, I was even more surprised.

I saw that he lived in Santa Rosa, CA.

This was also amusing.

Santa Rosa is a nice place, but it's typically chosen b/c it's a cheap place to live in the Bay Area. It's a long drive to any major airport, and is a lower-tier community when compared to much of the Bay Area. And its standard of living/earning per capita is MUCH lower than most of the other Bay Area communities.

Just 30 min south of Santa Rosa is Marin County, which has a LOT of successful entrepreneurs. I'm guessing he lived where he did to be close to this audience, so he could drive to consultations.

You would think that a man selling success as his message would:

1. Have used these techniques to grow successful businesses (he had not).
2. Wear clothes that fit, and shave the 3-day stubble off his face.
3. Have associates that also look professional and businesslike.
4. Be able to communicate his message without demeaning or cussing at his audience.
5. Choose an office location that befits/benefits the writer of a best selling book (easy access to airports for him going out on speaking engagements, or for others flying in to meet him).

I could go on. But you see why I had a hard time with his message. Why trust someone who has no experience and cannot present himself as a professional businessman? And who does not run a professional business?

As I said, this was a mistake.

E-Myth really is an excellent book.

I'd venture that if you met this person, you might have done the same thing as I. Gerber's lack of experience and professionalism seriously tainted his message.

-Russ H.
 

fanocks2003

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Thing is, fanocks, you make judgements about who is telling you these things.

We all do this.

You want to buy a business.

Who will give you advice you trust?

-A successful venture capitalist who has purchased and grown dozens of similar ventures?
-A guy who never bought a single biz, but just wrote a best selling book on the topic?
-An 18 year old guy who says he's an expert-- but has never bought a biz-- he just has strong opinions?

Personally, I'd choose the venture capitalist (and have-- several of my past clients are big time VCs).

I may listen to the 18 year old guy, or read the book.

But I'm more likely to trust the person with experience.

*******

When I met Michael Gerber for the very first time, I was very open to his message (I was at a mgt conference).

I sat and listened to a guy in an ill-fitting suit (the buttons were about to pop it was so tight).

He ranted for over an hour about how "f*cking stupid" and what G*d*mn idiots" we all were.

(the room was full of nothing but successful entrepreneurs-- every single one of them pulling down 6 figures/year).

He had a young woman dressed very sleazily selling his materials at the back of the room. She wore tight-fitting, very revealing clothes. And they were not well made-- they were obviously cheap.

When I later found out this was his daughter, I was even more surprised.

I saw that he lived in Santa Rosa, CA.

This was also amusing.

Santa Rosa is a nice place, but it's typically chosen b/c it's a cheap place to live in the Bay Area. It's a long drive to any major airport, and is a lower-tier community when compared to much of the Bay Area. And its standard of living/earning per capita is MUCH lower than most of the other Bay Area communities.

Just 30 min south of Santa Rosa is Marin County, which has a LOT of successful entrepreneurs. I'm guessing he lived where he did to be close to this audience, so he could drive to consultations.

You would think that a man selling success as his message would:

1. Have used these techniques to grow successful businesses (he had not).
2. Wear clothes that fit, and shave the 3-day stubble off his face.
3. Have associates that also look professional and businesslike.
4. Be able to communicate his message without demeaning or cussing at his audience.
5. Choose an office location that befits/benefits the writer of a best selling book (easy access to airports for him going out on speaking engagements, or for others flying in to meet him).

I could go on. But you see why I had a hard time with his message. Why trust someone who has no experience and cannot present himself as a professional businessman? And who does not run a professional business?

As I said, this was a mistake.

E-Myth really is an excellent book.

I'd venture that if you met this person, you might have done the same thing as I. Gerber's lack of experience and professionalism seriously tainted his message.

-Russ H.

Agree with you. Nothing worse than people being disrespectful. I usually tell them to f*ck off. I had such a discussion with a guy the other day who treated me very badly. And the fun stuff was, I tried to help him and he treated me like the worst scumbag who have ever existed. That is just to much to tolerate.
 

unicon

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Rudness goes up with the shortage of time

However there is no excuse for incivility

The substance of the message may be there irregardless of idiosincrasys (integrity)

Their communication must be more organized to maintain civility

Organized communication is the only thing that will conquer this time and allow free flowing civility

Working hard on a book is different than working hard on verbal communication of those concepts

Finally there may be reverse psychology at work here totally underestimating the author
 
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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

After reading Keith Cameron Smith's book, I really would love to meet him(even though I kept mistaking him for the guy who played "Boner" in Growing Pains before I read his book :smilielol:), but then I remembered the RK thread and specifically the quote below from this thread:

"One should never meet his heroes," for upon personally meeting them, you will find that they are not who you thought they were. And they will be rude and bored and otherwise not as you had hoped.

All that aside, has anyone met some of the other inspirational authors that I'd love to meet: Guy Kawasaki, Ryan Allis and Bob DeMatteis?

And on top of that, who is the most famous person you've met? For me it was when I was 9 and met Barry Bonds(pre-roids back in '93), I got his autograph after a Cubs-Giants game and even though he signed the back of the card(one of the few things he did to "de-value" his autograph), he was very nice, more so than some of the other baseball players I came across :smxB:

It's funny how now my "celebrities" are financial gurus/authors(including meeting some of you guys at B&P next month :)), although the one celebrity I really wanted to meet and have a sit-down with was George Carlin and unfortunately will never have that opportunity, on the plus side though, I did see him live from the front row back in Jan '07!
 

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Herman,

Is it all just BS?

Maybe.

Depends on what you expect from what you read. I believe alot of those books are great for creating a motivating mindset and read them expecting just that.

If you expect to read Four Hour Workweek and simply become rich then its BS.

You have to do the work. I feel the books help you define your direction. RDPD did that for me.

I'm reading Four Hour Workweek right now. I like alot of what he suggests but I dont know if its all my cup of tea.

I've thought for years that you need mini retirements throughout your life for the same reason he cites, but honestly the only thing I dont like about what I do (investing wise) is that its sooo hard to find funding.

Getting over that hurdle, I would really enjoy searching and finding the next RE deal.

I wouldnt want to outsource what I enjoy.

Finally, even Kiosaki says that "first you must know why you want to become rich then find a way to do so". He says no one can tell you precisely how to do it. Thats up to you. Is that part of his "line of BS" or is it "prudent advice"?

You have to decide.
 

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Re: Is it BS? E-myth, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Robert G. Allen, 4-Hour

Regardless of opinions of authors and books, I like the concepts.

- E-myth: Replace myself with systems and make the business automatic. Awesome.
- Kiyosaki: Cash flow pattern of the rich. Phenomenal.
- 4HWW: Mini-retirements, 80/20 your life. Sweet. Works with my life.

Even if the method is flawed, I would go about finding my own way of making these work. The goal is sooo worth it.

If the author's way doesn't work for you, find your own way. :)
 
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One of my friends from college read the E-Myth, and also signed up for the mentoring courses which cost a pretty penny. He knew nothing about business, as we both went to college for 3D Animation back in the 90s, and that was our career path for a while.

He created a startup that now generates over 1Mil per month.

I dont know about the guys personally, but maybe its one of those cases of "its the messenger thats bad not the message"?

RK's book definitely changed my life for the better, but I dont know him personally.
 

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Well my intro to the fastlane started with a meal with a guy with a million per month e business and a recommendation to read both RDPD and TAGR. Sure they positively impacted me but nothing was as good as MJs book. I wish it went on forever. I am looking for other books that are similar but none are as informative or as fun to read.

I have to agree with you though, it is a book worth reading even though apparently the guy is a swindling doushebag that made most of his money on his books and up selling a seminar after encouraging all of the attendees to increase their credit limit.
 

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One of my friends from college read the E-Myth, and also signed up for the mentoring courses which cost a pretty penny. He knew nothing about business, as we both went to college for 3D Animation back in the 90s, and that was our career path for a while.

He created a startup that now generates over 1Mil per month.

I dont know about the guys personally, but maybe its one of those cases of "its the messenger thats bad not the message"?

RK's book definitely changed my life for the better, but I dont know him personally.

What does your friends business do?

If it happens to be software, I know someone who licenses his software to big companies for $10k per month, and has atleast 30 clients. Thats $300k p/month!!!
 
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On Hard work

Success, IMO, is a combination of hard work meeting luck.

I believe it was Earl Nightingale who said that luck = preparedness + opportunity. And opportunity is there ALL the time.
 

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I majored in 3d animation. Been studying game art a lot lately since I love 3d modelling. Would still like to work in the industry but a fastlane approach would be cool. I just don't know much about business yet.
 

domular

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E-Myth I can't say I got much out of it. RDPD I enjoyed and I do think it has some useful points. First is the contrast of what we would call sidewalk and slow/fastlane. Let's face it, what makes the book work is the contrast so I think there's some value there. Also the point I think is more valuable is how sad America's education about fiances is. The is with RK is he spins it that the only answer to the fastlane is real estate and his courses and notoriety are what make him money not his amazing investing skills.

As far as mentoring goes I thinks it more what you do with the info than the source of the info but kudos to your friend for pushing himself onto the fastlane.
 
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40000

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I majored in 3d animation. Been studying game art a lot lately since I love 3d modelling. Would still like to work in the industry but a fastlane approach would be cool. I just don't know much about business yet.

Are you familiar with animationmentor.com ?
Basically is an online school for animators with pre-recorded lessons and some "live" lessons taught by other animators.
Whole curriculum is around 18 grand (ouch!)
Those guys did create a "fastlane" model out of 3d animation...
 

kbell

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Yeah I was considering going with them for awhile. But I did graduate from art college instead and understand the basics of animation. I wouldn't mind a refresher, but 18 months is ridiculous.
 

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