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GOLD! Guru Cults Exposed: The Tactics "Experts" Use To Pull You In & Suck You Dry

Discussion in 'Advertising, Marketing, Social Media' started by SinisterLex, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. SinisterLex
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    SinisterLex The moments that define you have already happened. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    You're browsing Facebook when you see a post with a title like this:

    The Biggest Mistake That Held Me Back From Hitting My First $1,000,000...
    When I first started my business..........

    It looks like a blog post. But you see a "read more" icon. So you click it and down pops a story.

    [​IMG]
    No harm in reading a story, you think. So you read the first line. But...

    ...you don't know this harmless sentence ends in a way that opens a loop in the mind that compels you to read more. Before you know it, you've read the third, fourth, and even twenty fifth lines.

    By now you know you're reading an ad or maybe not. You may even wonder why you're still reading. But how could you not finish? That's like leaving a murder mystery before the killer is revealed.

    When you start a story, you want to finish it.
    (unless it sucks like new Star Wars)

    When there's a question in your mind, you want to answer it.
    (to close the loop)

    So you keep reading...

    Because the story is good. And it's good because it's about you.

    Technically it's the author's story, but strangely, it parallels your own. The struggles, challenges, and failures...it's like you guys live the same lives.

    The only part that deviates is where they made 7 figures and you have not.
    (yet)

    But if you're willing to sit through a Free Master Class, they'll reveal the 5 shifts that changed everything for them and when you get it, your life will change too.

    This is how it begins...

    Soon you've spent an hour alone watching a guru webinar designed to open your eyes to the error of your ways and show you how simple making millions can be.
    (the real purpose is to make you feel good and give you hope)


    If only you make those shifts...you'll be rich...and if you want help, the guru (or their team) has set aside time to speak with you to see if you're a fit to work with them to change your life.

    But you'd better do it fast because spaces are limited.

    So you click a link, fill out an application, and book a call.

    Fast forward 3 months and you've spent $10,000 on credit for 8 weeks of training designed to teach you how to do all the things we just talked about. Doesn't matter what you teach in your "business" as long as you follow their "process."
    (Also you get access to a Facebook group usually.)

    THIS IS HOW GURU CULTS OPERATE...

    It's not all that different from a NOT guru cult, which makes it hard to tell the difference. The key difference is one teaches a marketing system as a successful business (but calls it something else). The other teaches processes that open the doors to building a successful business.

    Sometimes the funnels they use operate almost exactly the same. The problem with guru cults is they tell you that you can do what you love and be successful while secretly selling you the very system they used to get you to buy from them (rather than selling you their personal processes about how to do what they love and how that made them millions...because it didn't).

    It's kind of like an MLM...Juice Plus, Amway, Mary Kay...except people actually do make a lot of money sometimes. As long as you sell the same system you bought to some other poor sap, you'll make back your investment and then some pretty fast (after all it only takes 2 schmoozers at $5,000 each to pay off that $10,000 loan).

    At the top levels this works well. The marketing gurus at the top have a lot of money to spend figuring out how to get people to spend money. It works well at the second level too, because the people buying from the top gurus have plenty of money to spend. They get their water from the well. It's when you get to the 3rd level and beyond that things start to go to sh*t.

    At the 3rd level you've got marketing training mixed with "business" and "branding" and "spiritual awakenings." Now things start to get muddy. These people still sell the dream, but they don't have as much money to spend on training, or marketing, so they turn to their personal network and start there.

    At first they make a few sales from friends or family (this is what the top-tier gurus suggest they do to gain traction fast). But soon they run out of people to sell to and they stop making money.

    So they turn back to the marketing systems. They try Facebook ads but don't have much to spend, so it doesn't work very well. They try promoting themselves all over Facebook and social media but that doesn't work well either. Also, by this time it's been so long since they first started this path, that they forgot half the sh*t they learned in their training...

    The only logical solution therefore is to return to their guru because they've "tried everything" but something still holds them back (you'll find that line in their customer emails). Lucky for them, the guru is hosting a 2 day seminar in the Himalayas and it's just $30,000 to attend................

    [​IMG]

    Anyone notice a pattern?

    Anyway...

    There are plenty of legit coaches, courses and trainings out there. There's also a f*ck ton of bullshit gurus and wannabes selling crackpot systems they don't understand to people they can't help.

    In the posts that follow (and when I have time) I'm going to break down each part of the guru funnels, and the tactics and techniques they use to indoctrinate you into their cults and keep you there while practically stealing your cash.

    Hopefully this thread will save some of you a lot of wasted time and cash, and help you make good judgments and buying decisions anytime you consider a training moving forward.

    WHERE DID I GET THESE SECRET INSIGHTS?


    I've worked directly with gurus at all levels. Built their funnels. Wrote their copy. Trained their students, and even launched courses and coaching programs of my own using some of their methods.

    Also, I've bought courses from gurus, and through a rigorous process of due diligence have managed to only purchase useful sh*t up to this point. So hopefully some of those insights will help you.

    Anyway, if you have any questions about gurus, or about a program you're considering taking, feel free to post them here. It's been a while since I spent time giving value to this forum, and this seems like a fair way to give back.

    Even if you don't have questions right now, maybe you'll learn something from the posts that follow.

    In the next post we'll look at some guru ads and break down different psychological tactics of influence and persuasion used to pull you in and suck you dry.

    If that interests you, stay tuned...

    P.S.

    Look again at the ad above. Is it a BS guru, or does she sell a legit training program that might be useful for you? Consider it carefully. I'll tell you the answer in the next post.

    @Andy Black @MJ DeMarco

    Could you move this to the outside. Sorry about that. Thought I double checked and had it in the right forum.
     

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  2. eliquid
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    eliquid ( Jason Brown ) Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    jasoncuellar123 Wow! Wow! Wow! Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    This is why I don't use LinkedIn, it's full of guru spam.
     
  4. MJ DeMarco
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    MJ DeMarco Raving Lunatic Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    (MOVED OUTSIDE PER YOUR REQUEST)

    Great stuff Lex, the "closed loop" of story telling alone is worth a NOTABLE tag.

    The guru scam (lotta bro-marketing and gurus teaching you how to be a guru) is a complicated version of the envelope stuffing scam from the 70's and 80's, widely advertised in classified ads and newspapers.

    Send me $1 to this post office box and I'll show you how to make $1 for every envelope you stuff!

    After you send the $1 to the mailbox, you get a return envelope that says, "Ha sucker, just repeat what I did."
     
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    Fox Legendary Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    Excellent post Lex.

    When you get time can you break down what you think are legit ways for a good course to advertise and market themselves.

    Repped and following.

    Edit - did you give away all your rep points?
     
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  6. SinisterLex
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    SinisterLex The moments that define you have already happened. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    When we get into the intricacies of the cult elements (there's a reason I used that word in the title) some of the more underhanded tactics will come to light. But in general the big picture system works and is legit for most marketers.

    The funnel system, whether it starts with a FB ad, YouTube video or something else is not the problem. The problem is what happens in the funnel. What's said, implied, triggered, etc.

    I don't think you're using FB funnels right now, but the legit way to market is pretty much how you already do it. Value first (real value, not perceived or implied value). Connecting with your audience and engaging them. Answering questions. Being available when possible, and letting your people give you permission to share more with them.

    It's not wrong to have a group, or use retargeting ads, or speak to your target's pain points. What's wrong is not having a product that legitimately solves or attempts to solve those pain points once that person goes all-in with you.

    Ya, it was a sort of reset with the forum. Don't want all my rep based on posts I made like 3 or 4 years ago. Want to bring relevant value now.
     
  7. Argue
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    Argue Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    @SinisterLex great stuff man! Someone had to say this in an articulate way. Too much bull crap out there.

    As for that ad, I’m considering it BS.
    • Selena has/had imposter syndrome. However, for $XX.XX, she can teach YOU how to remove imposter syndrome.
    • Selena is smart. She’s selling a desperate need entrepreneurs are looking for online. So she created a video series to funnel.
    • Paradox of practice. It’s like a marketer who’s a virgin attempts to sell you a course on how to pick up girls (e.g. Andrew).
    That’s my opinion. Am I too skeptical? Is my reasoning flawed? What can I do to improve my BS meter?
     
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  8. WJS
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    WJS Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Thanks for creating this thread @SinisterLex. What do you think of Darren Hardy? His Darren Daily video does have high production value and can sometimes be inspiring. I do feel that he is a very competent story teller and marketer. Only thing is his contents felt kind of "fluffy" and they don't leave very lasting impact. When he starts to promote his courses he can be very aggressive and persuasive. However when you see enough marketing tactics you kind of have a hunch that something's not quite right (just not able to tell what it is).

    Based solely on that post above I'd say it's BS guru. Or maybe her course is highly "entry level". The phrase "still figuring out the details of my business myself" suggests that she is still trying to position herself, while fine-tuning her work and "winging it to see where it goes"
     
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  9. SinisterLex
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    SinisterLex The moments that define you have already happened. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    Most guru funnels follow the copywriting AIDA model - Attention Interest Desire Action - with an end goal of getting you to take action in the shortest time possible. Improving your BS meter starts with awareness, knowing what to look for. Some of those things:

    1) When you read a Facebook ad and actually agree with it (that should be a red flag lol!)
    2) When a Facebook ad or Master Class or free whatever specifically targets a problem(s) you have.

    Those two things are signs to beware of. At this point it's time to slow down and step back. Google the webinar host to see what the world says.

    • Ask "who is this guy/girl"?
    • What is their experience?
    • What results have they generated through the specific thing they teach?
    • What are they actually teaching?
    • What results have others generated by applying those skills?
    • Do I get any weird gut feelings about this person?
    • Do they speak in specifics or do they speak in mostly vague language?
    • How long have they been teaching this thing?
    • How long did they use this thing before teaching it?

    That 3rd from last one is also the secret to becoming POTUS if you didn't know. ;)

    One other thing to pay attention to is how they apply credibility markers. Is what makes them sound like a great person to follow based on useless credibility markers?

    A HUGE part of guru cult marketing is built on useless credibility. For instance:

    Who is John Smith?

    I built a 6-figure coaching business using these exact techniques - USELESS BIG NUMBER
    (the system works for coaches, but what about your industry?)


    I have over 10,000 instagram followers - USELESS BIG NUMBER
    (so what...do you have over 10,000 sales?)

    I've taught these methods to over 500 people - USELESS BIG NUMBER

    (great, but did those people find it helpful?)

    I trained with Tony Robbins - USELESS NAME DROPPING
    (great, but will Tony Robbins be part of this in some way?)


    A USEFUL version of that last one would be:
    I worked with Tony Robbins to create this program.

    Here's the credibility I usually look for:

    I have a doctorates degree in [psychology, journalism] something relevant.
    I used this system (preferably recently) to sell X amount of the thing you sell or something relevant.
    I still use this system to sell X and not just [coaching, courses etc.]
    Here's people you can meet and talk to before moving forward.
    Here's places where you can learn more about me for free and directly experience my value.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  10. SinisterLex
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    SinisterLex The moments that define you have already happened. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    I'm not familiar with Darren Hardy, but he has the look of a Tier 2 Guru. Some things I notice at a quick glance:

    • His programs look like they cover abstract concepts (things that can't really be measured)
    • A lot of testimonials that don't mention SPECIFIC results (the training had a big impact on my life is incredibly vague)
    • He's probably a good speaker and strong communicator and is good with storytelling
    • Looks like he has good funnels in place that are pretty well fleshed out
    • Targets a variety of industries which is a bit of a red flag for me

    Based on all of this, I wouldn't buy from him. Others might find value in his NLP-based motivational speeches, but I wonder how much they take away at the end of the day.

    (Note: this is kind of what Tony Robbins does also. I don't usually buy from him, but I'm not just starting out. I have some of his books, but not his training. The amount of value I might get from Tony would probably be different from what a brand new entrepreneur would get.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
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  11. NFT
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    NFT Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    Amazing content, thanks a lot :)
     
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    Thanks for posting this! So happy you're able to articulate something here on the forum that has been woefully needed. The parallels here and the recent Andrew fiasco are painfully obvious but I'm sure there are some that will continue defending him.

    Folks, it is vitally important to hone your BS meter. What Lex is laying out here is gold.

    Rep+
     
  13. Argue
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    This is gold Lex. This post alone shows how much experience you have. Glad you're sharing this with us, for FREE.

    Also, I searched Selena Soo. She looks legit. I feel like an a**hole for my previous post. I don't know though, looking forward to your next post about the topic!
     
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  14. Andy Black
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    I worked with an affiliate marketer last year doing some AdWords tests for him. He had a look at my marketplace ad and said "I can do some damage with that."

    Me: "What do you mean?"

    Him: "I could make that really hum for you. Hmmm... the title should be something like "Discover the one secret that blah blah" "

    Me: "Err, no thanks. When someone says they have a "secret" I instantly dismiss it as spam."



    I hate all the cr@p out there. Go off TFLF and it's just a spam fest. Some Facebook groups are awful. LinkedIn news is full of really poor examples of "content marketing". Feck that.





    My litmus test is whether I think Richard Branson, Elon Musk, MJ, Vigilante, etc would continue reading it.

    They're business owners. If it's not going to appeal to them, then it's not a B2B play, and is therefore a B2C play.

    (I'm not just starting out so this litmus test maybe isn't for people trying to get started?)

    I wrote about it a bit here:



    The example in the opening post?

    I wouldn't read past the third line normally. I read it all since you've put it up there as an example.

    I think it's extremely well done - not a word out of place, and designed to separate their target from the crowd, and their cash from their wallets.

    Am I throwing out the baby with the bathwater? Am I judging her course/programme based solely on her ad? Yeah... my alarm bells are going off. She's following a formula, and I don't trust it.



    I’m subscribed and following this thread @SinisterLex.

    I have a course that could probably do very well outside TFLF, but I can't bring myself to compete with the shysters out there. It makes my skin crawl.

    I'll stick to building a DFY business thanks.


    EDIT: I'm tempted to relook at my own marketplace ad, but won't.

    EDIT2: I couldn't help myself. I re-looked at my marketplace ad. I'm happy with it. Some slight leanings towards "copywriting", but not too much.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
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    Yup, just upgraded it from NOTABLE to GOLD.
     
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    I am definitely looking forward to this thread.

    I have fallen victim to the guru trap in my younger years... and do believe that I am much more vigilant in my B.S. meter.

    I am sure that you are going to take us for an excellent experience with this thread @SinisterLex
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
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  17. SinisterLex
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    SinisterLex The moments that define you have already happened. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    Let's Talk Guru Funnels Stage 1 - The Ad
    Common Guru Funnel Variations

    V1.
    Ad > Landing Page > Email Series > Webinar > Application > Call > Sale
    V2. Ad > Landing Page > Webinar > Application > Call > Sale
    V3. Ad > Landing Page > Webinar > Sales Page > Sale

    There are versions that don't start with an ad, but you won't see those as often. The Tier 1 (marketing) Gurus, such as Russ Ruffino, teach their students to get to the sale as fast as possible. That starts with ads. More specifically, almost always Facebook ads.

    The Facebook Ad sits in the Attention stage of the AIDA model.

    It's placed directly in your line of site as you scroll. Sometimes it's short, like this Tony Robbins ad.

    [​IMG]

    Or long like our Selena Soo ad from yesterday.

    Gurus use whatever their guru says works. So you'll end up seeing a lot of variations since Tier 1 gurus trickle down their marketing results from the top. Whether the ad is short or long isn't important. What's important are the words you read as you're scrolling by.

    If you're seeing guru ads on Facebook, it's because:

    A) You fit the guru's target demographic for an ideal client
    (you're a juicy antelope being stalked by Simba)

    B) You visited a guru site, clicked a link, or liked a guru post etc.
    (now you're a juicy antelope with a broken leg)

    In either case you're being targeted and that puts you at a major disadvantage. It's the same thing that makes an assassin lethal. The victim isn't looking for a hitman. Meanwhile, there's a man on a building a mile away with sights on your head. He watches your behavior and gets to know you better than you know yourself. That way he can strike when you've dropped your guard.

    When you fit a guru's ideal client profile, it's not hard for them to say what you want to read. All they have to do is find people just like you and get to know them well. They spend time getting to know their problems. They learn how those people describe the problem in their own words. Then they use those exact same words in all of their communications with you.

    Let's revisit the Tony Robbins ad from above...

    [​IMG]

    "Failing to plan means planning to fail" - This is an agreement statement. You won't disagree with this. Remember, you're being targeted. This is likely something you've said to yourself in your head. Maybe you even said it out loud or online to someone else. Since you agree, it probably grabs your attention which is enough to get you to continue the first line.

    "Do you really have a business - or just a job you're calling a business" - Here is where the loop opens in your mind. This is another statement you say to yourself, especially if you're someone struggling in business. I see a similar question like this about freelancing all the time:

    "Is freelancing really a business or is it just a job I'm calling a business?"

    There's a good chance that's why Tony's ads target me. I'm a freelancer and I ask freelancer questions. So all Tony's ads have to do is say what I'm already thinking. Suddenly it's like he knows me and that hits home.

    The thing is, I don't have an answer for the question. If I did, I wouldn't ask it. Since I don't have an answer, and since Tony posed the question, I automatically assume Tony might have the answer and therefore I keep reading.

    That's why the very next sentence goes straight into a possible solution.

    "Discover the essential strategies..." - This is a command that continues to hint at a solution, but doesn't close the loop. The loop can only be closed when you have the actual answer. Otherwise it remains open, plaguing your thoughts. But now you not only have the open loop of your own troubling question, but also the open loop of a possible solution that hasn't been revealed but easily could be...if only you sign up for that free webinar.

    Isn't it crazy how all that psychology goes into a simple 5 line Facebook ad?

    By the way, some ads use videos. Some don't. Tony's usually do. The videos are similar to the copywriting in what they say. They just say more of the key words and phrases you want to read. Then they hint at a solution inside. Make sense?

    Now let's go deeper with a longer ad.

    [​IMG]

    It's back to the Selena Soo ad. This ad looks more like a Tier 2 or 3 guru ad. The first line opens with something her target audience is already thinking about.

    "When I first started my business" - This isn't about her business. It's targeting YOU by letting YOU know that this is a story about the starting phase of a business which happens to be where YOU are if you're seeing this ad.

    "I was afraid of coming across as" - 1 loop opens here. It happens REALLY FAST. It opens at the cliffhanger "as" and you don't think twice about dropping to the next line to find out what she was afraid of coming across as. You just read it.

    "arrogant" - The loop closes here, but another one opens because now you have to know why she felt that way. This word specifically targets how her audience feels. It could've been any other word.

    - "An asshole"
    - "A fake"
    - "A fraud"
    - "Intrusive"


    Whatever word fits the audience. Whatever word the target uses to describe themselves. Those exact words and phrases identify the target's limiting beliefs. These are stuck points that we want to solve but don't know how. When someone mentions them, they get our attention.

    Okay...

    That's pretty f*cking deep...

    But now I'll show you something that will blow your mind...

    The rest of Selena's ad is a story.

    Harmless.

    Right?

    No.

    This isn't just any story.

    This story applies a therapeutic metaphor technique
    to bypass any reservations you currently have.

    You may not know this, but people understand things through other things. If I just say you're being targeted by gurus, that doesn't describe the severity of the situation. But if I call a guru an assassin and you the victim, or them a lion and you the antelope...that paints a clearer picture in your mind. You understand the comparison.

    So here's how guru stories work.

    POWERFUL THERAPEUTIC METAPHORS

    A metaphor uses a story in which a character (in this case the guru) represents the situation you're currently in. They describe that situation very clearly. It seems the story isn't about you, it's about the character (but it's really about you).

    Once the story begins, you read how the character has all of the exact problems you have. This causes you to identify with the character. Now the two of you are one as you continue this journey. This also triggers the psychological rule of "liking" because the character is like you.

    But unlike you, the character's story ends differently, and this is where the magic happens. Up until this point, you had a bunch of open loops lingering in your mind. All the questions you don't have answers for. All the problems that have you stuck. The character has all those same problems, yet their outcome was different.

    Why?

    It was a simple realization they had...

    "If I wanted a business that would REALLY help people, I HAD to put myself out there."

    That's how therapeutic metaphors work. But what effect does it have on you? Remember, you've identified with the protagonist of the story. You have the same situation. Since everything was the same except that ONE REALIZATION, you assume the solution to your problem must therefore be the same.

    In this case...

    YOU MUST PUT YOURSELF OUT THERE if you want your business to succeed.

    Not only does this suggest what you must do, it also PRIMES you for what's to come. Because now, if at any point in this funnel you have doubts, you'll remember the story. You'll remember how the character had to put herself out there before she got results. Then you'll apply that same thought process to your present situation.

    Should I click this ad? = That would be putting myself out there, right? Yes.
    Should I enroll in this webinar? = That would be putting myself out there, right? Yes.
    Should I book a call? = That would be putting myself out there, right? Yes.
    Should I take out a $5k loan? = That would be putting myself out there, right? Yes.

    Should I go all-in with this $30,000 retreat = That would be putting myself out there, right? Yes.


    There's a reason they're called therapeutic metaphors. It's because they're used by actual medical practitioners in therapy to create change. Unfortunately, these same techniques are also used by marketers and gurus. The marketers often know what they're doing (though it doesn't make them well intentioned). Tier 2 and Tier 3 gurus usually don't have a clue.

    Anyway, all of this leads you to click their ad and that's step 1.

    In the next post we'll cover some different guru landing pages and see how they draw you into their funnels at the next level. If you have any questions about the stuff we talked about today, post 'em down below.

    :)

    .

    .

    P.S.

    Selena Soo's S3 program is pretty good. It taught me how to pitch media outlets like blogs, podcasts, magazines, and even local and national news outlets. But most who read her ad won't be able to tell the difference between her training and bullshit training based on theory instead of real-world results. That's why it's so important to Google the guru, and ask due diligence questions before moving forward in their funnels. Selena's ad could've been any of 1000 other gurus who would charge just as much for something worth a lot less.

    By the way, when I said I'd tell you the answer about Selena's ad in the next post...and you read all the way down here today...you directly experienced how open loops work. Now the loop is closed, but it kind of makes you wonder...how many loops were opened before you reached this point? How many loops are opened every day that you don't pay any attention to until it's too late?

    ;)

    Later
     
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  18. Andy Black
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    Andy Black Any colour, as long as it's red. Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    Interesting how a webinar appears in each of those three funnels @SinisterLex.

    A friend of mine has an email rule to delete any email that contains the word webinar.

    I personally wouldn’t sit through one of those evergreen automated webinars that just happen to be starting in 20 minutes and will have the pause and fast forward controls disabled and start by wasting my time by saying how they won’t waste my time and show they’re a guru by saying how they’re not a guru and ...

    Interested in why webinars appear in these so often.

    I think I know why these funnels often start with ads on Facebook.

    I’m sure you’ll gradually reveal this to us. :)
     
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  19. Busy Muse
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    Busy Muse Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    This thread is truly golden.
    I have to thank you @SinisterLex for all the effort you are putting into this and into showing the structure and processes behind the tactics, and with so much detail!
    I've bookmarked it because I am sure I will need to study it again and again in the future.
    Kudos for providing all this value, truly.
     
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  20. Raoul Duke
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    Raoul Duke Ingenting undgår mig. Ingen undgår mig. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Scot adams has a great book centering around this. It is a great read. Highly suggest this: Win Bigly
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
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  21. Busy Muse
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    Busy Muse Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    Webinars are easy to set up and allow for many viewers at the same time. Also they hook you in for enough time that I believe people start to invest in the sunk/cost fallacy at that point. Also a webinar makes you more relatable - people seem to love the whole "I get to see you in person" type of approach, which is why video has exploded as THE medium for information around the web in the past few years.
    To be honest I kinda hate webinars too. I don't have time to sit an hour watching people talk when I could read their three lines of actual info in 20 seconds.
     
  22. Andy Black
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    Andy Black Any colour, as long as it's red. Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    I think that’s why webinars are used - they separate people who don’t value their time from people who do value their time.

    As per that other thread I linked to previously, I think the funnel is designed to get their mark to separate themselves from those who are streetsmart enough to bail immediately.

    Get through their one hour webinar and you’re not only invested enough, but gullible enough.

    (But I’m not cynical or jaded...)
     
  23. Vigilante
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    Vigilante Legendary Contributor Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    This post to me feels like an exorcist has arrived to purge the demons. It's a much-needed breath of fresh air to purge the bad Guru Juju from our midst. Your timing on this post was impeccable and the content is excellent. What a wonderful restorative helpful thread. Excellent post. Speed+

    There is something deliciously restorative for the Forum right now about an anti Guru coming in here with actual first-hand experience. No wonder this thread was moved to gold within 24 hours of its posting.

    You might have to change your sn to ExorcistLex.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  24. SinisterLex
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    SinisterLex The moments that define you have already happened. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    This is pretty much how webinars go. I can't wait to get into that topic after the landing pages. The marketers tell the Tier 2 gurus to do the webinar live until they create one that resonates with their audience. Then automate it and make it look live.

    Most of the Tier 2 gurus follow this, but the Tier 3 gurus don't because they're afraid of being exposed if they go live. Instead, they just record a webinar and try to automate it without much testing. It ends up being a huge flop most of the time. But webinars that were tested and proven...those webinars work, and even when they're automated they get people to buy.

    The reason gurus use Facebook is because it works.

    I wouldn't say it's about the people who click not valuing their time, though. I also wouldn't say it's about separating the streetsmart from the gullible. Facebook simply gets you in front of people with really specific targeting. Google can work for this purpose too as long as the marketing communications are on point, but that's not what the Tier 1 gurus preach.

    When you look at how cults recruit, they don't look for the gullible. They don't go after the mentally challenged. They target streetsmart, educated individuals because those people believe they won't be duped into a cult.

    That actually makes them among the easiest to recruit and most likely to fall victim to a cult!


    Funny thing is, once indoctrinated, those same individuals become the most valuable, dedicated cult contributors, especially once they've identified with the cult membership and group think takes over.
     
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  25. SinisterLex
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    SinisterLex The moments that define you have already happened. Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    Would you still find it refreshing if you knew it was by design?

    There's a reason this thread happened now instead of several weeks ago, though I blocked a certain guru around 6 months ago.

    Robert Cialdini describes it as the privileged moment.

    It's an influence enhancer.
    (a "presuasion" tactic)


    While I couldn't possibly know for sure if the thread would go gold, I could be reasonably confident due to recent focused attention on negative gurus opening a privileged moment in which the forum would be receptive to my words.

    Another guru tactic.

    It demonstrates how it doesn't matter if someone is gullible or not. Streetsmart or not. The tactics and techniques can and do work when the marketer or guru (or cult leader!) knows what they're doing.

    Some gurus aren't very good at it. But that makes those who are, that much more devious and hard to spot.

    Ha! After the part above, you might think me the devil himself!
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
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