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Who do you follow for marketing advice?

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Andy Black

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Andy Black

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I just signed up to her group. Can't go wrong with $7 a month.
I find the content in the membership very long. I stopped going through it months ago, but still pay the $7/mth because it’s interesting being a fly on the wall.

Isn’t it interesting how some price points are a no-brainer?
 

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I find the content in the membership very long. I stopped going through it months ago, but it’s interesting being a fly on the wall.

Isn’t it interesting how some price points are a no-brainer?

Yes it's a nice little income stream. A price of an expensive coffee a month, you won't even feel that coming out of your bank account every month.

She has about 1500 members in her group. 1500 x 7 = $10500. A nice little 6 figure income every year plus the extra services she offers to those members.

Were you thinking of doing anything like that with your $15 Google Ads group?
 

Andy Black

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Yes it's a nice little income stream. A price of an expensive coffee a month, you won't even feel that coming out of your bank account every month.

She has about 1500 members in her group. 1500 x 7 = $10500. A nice little 6 figure income every year plus the extra services she offers to those members.

Were you thinking of doing anything like that with your $15 Google Ads group?
Her model is:

1) Agency clients. I think paying $1k/mth plus a % of revenue.

2) Group coaching where they pay about $200/mth for weekly Zooms where she explains what’s working for her clients, and helps them with their accounts.

3) The $7/mth group where you can ask her questions twice a week that she answers with a video, and where you can access some of the recordings of her group coaching sessions.

Most of her revenue is from agency clients.


Yes, I was implementing something similar when I found her, and I followed to see how she was doing it.

My main difference in implementation is that I like my courses to consist of super short videos.

I picked $15/mth as that’s about the price of Netflix or Masterclass, and I felt $7/mth looked a bit too low.
 

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And if the advanced folks have stopped looking and learning
I don't think this is the case at all.

Look at the people who responded here who we would consider to be advanced. I don't believe any of them have stopped learning.

As an example, Andy has said he's stopped actively learning marketing, but he'll be the first one to say he's "making a nuisance of himself on Twitter". He's still learning. It's a newish marketing medium for him. So is podcasting, so is YouTube. I can't keep up with how much this guy is learning. :rofl: Lex is learning game marketing, Seoguy has to keep learning the latest SEO updates.

I think a big difference between a beginner and advanced marketer / entrepreneur is that the advanced person knows how to seek out the answers they want and that is often through practical means as opposed to following a guru's advice. All those guys are doing instead of reading.

I got to a point in my knowledge journey, where it just seemed like nobody had anything new to say. The marketers today are repackaging stuff that the guys in the late '90s were selling, and those guys were repackaging guys from the early '80s, who were repackaging guys that were at their height in the '60s, and on and on.

There's perhaps some new bells and whistles with every decade, but once you realize that a fax machine or social media is just another marketing medium for delivering messages, you start applying direct mail principles to it. Or maybe mass market principles to it, depending on your experience and belief structure.

Marketing is constantly evolving, but the base DNA of it remains unchanged. When a beginner begins to see that, that's when they've advanced to a new level. Everything old is new again. Armed with the fundamentals, the advanced marketer doesn't need to seek out gurus, they just roll up their sleeves and learn the new tool.
 

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I got to a point in my knowledge journey, where it just seemed like nobody had anything new to say. The marketers today are repackaging stuff that the guys in the late '90s were selling, and those guys were repackaging guys from the early '80s, who were repackaging guys that were at their height in the '60s, and on and on.

There's perhaps some new bells and whistles with every decade, but once you realize that a fax machine or social media is just another marketing medium for delivering messages, you start applying direct mail principles to it. Or maybe mass market principles to it, depending on your experience and belief structure.

Marketing is constantly evolving, but the base DNA of it remains unchanged. When a beginner begins to see that, that's when they've advanced to a new level. Everything old is new again.

Ain't that the truth
 

Andy Black

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As an example, Andy has said he's stopped actively learning marketing, but he'll be the first one to say he's "making a nuisance of himself on Twitter". He's still learning. It's a newish marketing medium for him. So is podcasting, so is YouTube. I can't keep up with how much this guy is learning. :rofl: Lex is learning game marketing, Seoguy has to keep learning the latest SEO updates.
You’re right, I’m still learning but by doing rather than following people or reading/listening/watching courses/books/etc. That’s what I meant but didn’t phrase it correctly. Thanks for picking up on that @BizyDad.

Learning from a book is nowhere near the same as doing it and getting real life results.

I’ve a load of “Figuring out XYZ” threads in the forum. I’m not necessarily trying to turn YouTube, LinkedIn, Twitter, Podcasting, etc into a new marketing channel for me or my clients.

I like figuring out each marketing channel by getting stuck in rather than taking a course. I also find I get clarity quicker by documenting what I’m doing… often in a progress thread.

(Notice how I try not to use the word “learn”. My goal isn’t to “learn” per se, more to figure it out.)

Once I feel I’ve broke the back of something I often stop and turn my attention to another channel. It’s like I do a 90 day immersion in something then come up for air and pick something new.

For one, I’m insationably curious.

Another benefit is I can legitimately chat to someone and be able to advise them on lots of different channels - because I’ve been at the coal-face for a little while, even if I’ve not got massive results.
 

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Black_Dragon43

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^^^ This.

I follow and subscribe to Laurel Portié’s membership at www.adcoachingfor7.com because:

1) Her business model is already similar to mine, but she’s further along the path I’d like to travel.

2) So I can watch how she does things in her membership. (I learn way more watching what she does than consuming her content.)

3) Because her content is good (if too lengthy in her membership compared to her free content on her podcast / YouTube channel).

I ranked the above in order of importance to me.

First and foremost is that I like her values, business model, ethics, and goals.

Another reason I stopped following Gary V is that he’s building a business I have no desire to run.

I prefer to follow people slightly further along the path I’d like to travel, and who move in the manner and speed I’d like to travel.
Looks interesting Andy, solid content from the 2 vids I watched, how do you stumble upon these lesser known marketers?
 

Andy Black

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Looks interesting Andy, solid content from the 2 vids I watched, how do you stumble upon these lesser known marketers?
I was chatting with a guy who does Facebook marketing and mentioned how I was turning my course into a very low priced membership. I remember shaking my head at everyone telling me to increase prices.

The guy I was talking to then told me about Laurel who was doing exactly what I planned.

I prefer the lesser known marketers who are still up to their elbows in the trenches. Hence preferring videos to be less polished and raw.
 

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@Kung Fu Steve -

I think it depends on why you want to know which marketers we follow when it comes to beginners and advanced marketers.

I went through a period of time where I was constantly seeking out marketing info, even when making millions a year from FB ads, Google Ads, etc.

We're talking terabytes of data ( courses ) and dedicated email boxes for newsletters I was sub'd to.

Then, I personally started writing/podcasting/coaching advanced marketing tactics myself to others because all of those courses and newsletters ( no matter who it was) weren't advanced stuff. I thought there was a gap in the market.

Out of all of that, here is what I found:

1. Everyone caters to noobs because that is where the money is at. People at the beginning of the journey. It's the easiest content to produce, the kind of content everyone can understand, and there will always be plenty of noobs willing to dish out money.

2. Almost no one is showing advanced-level marketing. Meaning, shit that only a 10 year+ vet would know. The topics can be hard to understand, hard to write/talk about, you put it out there on blogs and podcasts and none of the noobs get it so they don't clap or upvote or share... etc.

So are you looking to learn marketing? If that is your why, you will find a ton of beginner stuff and hardly any advanced stuff.

Are you looking to emulate what advanced marketers are doing to make money? If so, follow the ones teaching the noobs.

It comes down to your why. If you want to learn the marketing tactics, you wont learn any advanced stuff unless you are doing.

If you are wanting to emulate what they do so you can cash out like them, then I could name a few.. but the end game is they are squeezing all they can from the noobs.

As far as myself, I stopped seeking out people/courses/newsletters and my marketing has improved. You learn no one is helping the advanced marketers for multiple reasons. Some of which I learned when I did advanced content.

Most of the truly advanced marketers, have no popularity or following. I could name several I know personally and none of them want to be on youtube or have an email list. They are just straight crushing it instead.

Personally, some of the stuff I am doing is truly groundbreaking and searching online provides no results of anyone else doing the same methods/tactics.. and no one evens knows who I am. You'd have a hard time ever knowing though unless I told you directly as my name doesn't really come up for anything but I could guarantee you I'm doing things Gary V or others who have a million followers wouldn't even know about.

Again, it comes back to your why.

Are you wanting to learn advanced marketing tactics, or just learn what successfull marketing gurus do to earn more from their list?

If it's to actually learn marketing tactics that are advanced, all the "well known" people aren't going to have that info.
 
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Andy Black

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@Kung Fu Steve -

I think it depends on why you want to know which marketers we follow when it comes to beginners and advanced marketers.

I went through a period of time where I was constantly seeking out marketing info, even when making millions a year from FB ads, Google Ads, etc.

We're talking terabytes of data ( courses ) and dedicated email boxes for newsletters I was sub'd to.

Then, I personally started writing/podcasting/coaching advanced marketing tactics myself to others because all of those courses and newsletters ( no matter who it was) weren't advanced stuff. I thought there was a gap in the market.

Out of all of that, here is what I found:

1. Everyone caters to noobs because that is where the money is at. People at the beginning of the journey. It's the easiest content to produce, the kind of content everyone can understand, and there will always be plenty of noobs willing to dish out money.

2. Almost no one is showing advanced-level marketing. Meaning, shit that only a 10 year+ vet would know. The topics can be hard to understand, hard to write/talk about, you put it out there on blogs and podcasts and none of the noobs get it so they don't clap or upvote or share... etc.

So are you looking to learn marketing? If that is your why, you will find a ton of beginner stuff and hardly any advanced stuff.

Are you looking to emulate what advanced marketers are doing to make money? If so, follow the ones teaching the noobs.

It comes down to your why. If you want to learn the marketing tactics, you wont learn any advanced stuff unless you are doing.

If you are wanting to emulate what they do so you can cash out like them, then I could name a few.. but the end game is they are squeezing all they can from the noobs.

As far as myself, I stopped seeking out people/courses/newsletters and my marketing has improved. You learn no one is helping the advanced marketers for multiple reasons. Some of which I learned when I did advanced content.

Most of the truly advanced marketers, have no popularity or following. I could name several I know personally and none of them want to be on youtube or have an email list. They are just straight crushing it instead.

Personally, some of the stuff I am doing is truly groundbreaking and searching online provides no results of anyone else doing the same methods/tactics.. and no one evens knows who I am. You'd have a hard time ever knowing though unless I told you directly as my name doesn't really come up for anything but I could guarantee you I'm doing things Gary V or others who have a million followers wouldn't even know about.

Again, it comes back to your why.

Are you wanting to learn advanced marketing tactics, or just learn what successfull marketing gurus do to earn more from their list?

If it's to actually learn marketing tactics that are advanced, all the "well known" people aren't going to have that info.
I’d rep you if I could. So much of this resonates.
 

Kung Fu Steve

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@Kung Fu Steve -

I think it depends on why you want to know which marketers we follow when it comes to beginners and advanced marketers.

I went through a period of time where I was constantly seeking out marketing info, even when making millions a year from FB ads, Google Ads, etc.

We're talking terabytes of data ( courses ) and dedicated email boxes for newsletters I was sub'd to.

Then, I personally started writing/podcasting/coaching advanced marketing tactics myself to others because all of those courses and newsletters ( no matter who it was) weren't advanced stuff. I thought there was a gap in the market.

Out of all of that, here is what I found:

1. Everyone caters to noobs because that is where the money is at. People at the beginning of the journey. It's the easiest content to produce, the kind of content everyone can understand, and there will always be plenty of noobs willing to dish out money.

2. Almost no one is showing advanced-level marketing. Meaning, shit that only a 10 year+ vet would know. The topics can be hard to understand, hard to write/talk about, you put it out there on blogs and podcasts and none of the noobs get it so they don't clap or upvote or share... etc.

So are you looking to learn marketing? If that is your why, you will find a ton of beginner stuff and hardly any advanced stuff.

Are you looking to emulate what advanced marketers are doing to make money? If so, follow the ones teaching the noobs.

It comes down to your why. If you want to learn the marketing tactics, you wont learn any advanced stuff unless you are doing.

If you are wanting to emulate what they do so you can cash out like them, then I could name a few.. but the end game is they are squeezing all they can from the noobs.

As far as myself, I stopped seeking out people/courses/newsletters and my marketing has improved. You learn no one is helping the advanced marketers for multiple reasons. Some of which I learned when I did advanced content.

Most of the truly advanced marketers, have no popularity or following. I could name several I know personally and none of them want to be on youtube or have an email list. They are just straight crushing it instead.

Personally, some of the stuff I am doing is truly groundbreaking and searching online provides no results of anyone else doing the same methods/tactics.. and no one evens knows who I am. You'd have a hard time ever knowing though unless I told you directly as my name doesn't really come up for anything but I could guarantee you I'm doing things Gary V or others who have a million followers wouldn't even know about.

Again, it comes back to your why.

Are you wanting to learn advanced marketing tactics, or just learn what successfull marketing gurus do to earn more from their list?

If it's to actually learn marketing tactics that are advanced, all the "well known" people aren't going to have that info.

I personally happen to know a thing or two about marketing.

MY why is a little bit of research. I have some theories that seem to be getting confirmed. I was trying to be vague so it didn't skew things but I posted this question several places. Rarely are any names repeated. Which leads me to believe that most people who are looking for marketing advice are either A.) not doing it at all, or B.) follow a specific person for best practices in their industry.

Still inconclusive.

But, again, if I asked everyone "who do you follow for motivation" -- I'm willing to bet the same 5 names pop up for just about everyone.

I'll be teaching the basics, of course. There has to be an entry point. But the advanced stuff is what I'm looking to really teach -- and you're right -- very few people would grasp the concepts... which is why my role is figuring out how to take advanced concepts and make them simple... OR just do it for them :smile2:

I've been writing out some classes that covers the basics and teases at the advanced. Was looking for comparisons as to what's out there in the market currently but man... it's all over the place!
 

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Who do you follow for marketing advice these days?
I would say I am intermediate in marketing, I don't follow anyone , unless i am facing a specific issue in marketing. I used to listen to marketing school & russel bruson podcasts, but found that it was my way of avoiding doing the hard stuff like actually building a biz
 

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I personally happen to know a thing or two about marketing.

MY why is a little bit of research. I have some theories that seem to be getting confirmed. I was trying to be vague so it didn't skew things but I posted this question several places. Rarely are any names repeated. Which leads me to believe that most people who are looking for marketing advice are either A.) not doing it at all, or B.) follow a specific person for best practices in their industry.

Still inconclusive.

But, again, if I asked everyone "who do you follow for motivation" -- I'm willing to bet the same 5 names pop up for just about everyone.

I'll be teaching the basics, of course. There has to be an entry point. But the advanced stuff is what I'm looking to really teach -- and you're right -- very few people would grasp the concepts... which is why my role is figuring out how to take advanced concepts and make them simple... OR just do it for them :smile2:

I've been writing out some classes that covers the basics and teases at the advanced. Was looking for comparisons as to what's out there in the market currently but man... it's all over the place!
I ll try to be more specific.

It is usually revolves about an old concept that is getting more popular, or someone who came out with the new strategy.

But the exact implementation of the tactics and knowhow we have to refer to other people/influenzer/interviewee who have experience operating much smaller projects. Thought leaders usually developed ideas from managing much larger enterprise that you have to look elsewhere for much smaller application.

Loss Leader Pricing (Very old strategy)
-Amazon, loses money on retail but make it back on subscription
-Local Food Business outlet, loses money on fries promotion but make it back on higher margin beverage.
-Content creator: provide free content but have paid subscription

Insights: Success decides on precision. How relevant and effective are the two offers in leading conversion? Some sort of market insights and data is need.


Private Traffic Reservoir
The idea is a book in Chinese language written by CMO from Luckin Coffee in 2016. The idea is on the long run paid advertising already has and will continue decline in cost effectiveness. More money is competing for a fixed pool of attention and not growing.

Solution: Develop and engage existing customers/ leads to have continual needs discovery, referral and repurchase opportunity. Develop long term perspective on lead nurturing and conversion. Invest in your existing customers. If paid leads are like water flowing to you from major rivers then it is important to have your reservoir.

Areas of implementation for SmAll business and project owner: develop whatsapp/wechat group management skills.
 
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MattL

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Marketing is constantly evolving, but the base DNA of it remains unchanged. When a beginner begins to see that, that's when they've advanced to a new level. Everything old is new again. Armed with the fundamentals, the advanced marketer doesn't need to seek out gurus, they just roll up their sleeves and learn the new tool.

1. Everyone caters to noobs because that is where the money is at. People at the beginning of the journey. It's the easiest content to produce, the kind of content everyone can understand, and there will always be plenty of noobs willing to dish out money.

There's a great gilded thread on this forum that talks about this. Can't find it right now.
Everyone can help in the beginning but as you keep progressing fewer people will be able to relate (and help).
 

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I ll try to be more specific.

It is usually revolves about an old concept that is getting more popular, or someone who came out with the new strategy.

But the exact implementation of the tactics and knowhow we have to refer to other people/influenzer/interviewee who have experience operating much smaller projects. Thought leaders usually developed ideas from managing much larger enterprise that you have to look elsewhere for much smaller application.

Loss Leader Pricing (Very old strategy)
-Amazon, loses money on retail but make it back on subscription
-Local Food Business outlet, loses money on fries promotion but make it back on higher margin beverage.
-Content creator: provide free content but have paid subscription

Insights: Success decides on precision. How relevant and effective are the two offers in leading conversion? Some sort of market insights and data is need.


Private Traffic Reservoir
The idea is a book in Chinese language written by CMO from Luckin Coffee in 2016. The idea is on the long run paid advertising already has and will continue decline in cost effectiveness. More money is competing for a fixed pool of attention and not growing.

Solution: Develop and engage existing customers/ leads to have continual needs discovery, referral and repurchase opportunity. Develop long term perspective on lead nurturing and conversion. Invest in your existing customers. If paid leads are like water flowing to you from major rivers then it is important to have your reservoir.

Areas of implementation for SmAll business and project owner: develop whatsapp/wechat group management skills.
Most successful business marketing actually used either or both of the strategy.

Even if you look at MJ’s publishing business, and it works with this forum. It is a combination of the two strategy (not exact but similar).

There is no clear loss leader but products (books) and service (insider subscription) are competitively priced with seeming not high gross margin. But this is compensated with low customer acquisition cost and hence higher net margin. Books like MFL brings traffic to forum, forum brings writing ideas (problems to solve) for MJ to write next books, forums traffic bring leads to books also and also insider subscription. Forums brings volunteer contributors who also want to promote themselves and hence they will create valuable content, which brings more traffic to the forum, so that MJ does not have to do the heavy lifting like a Youtuber, but more like a governor decides dos and donts.
 

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Happy to hop on a Zoom if you want to pick my brains on who I do and don’t follow and why. Maybe I’ve blind-spots, hangups, excuses, etc that you see in other people at my stage and it can help with your marketing (I don’t know if I’m your market or not).
Count me in too :)
 

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I'm just curious: Anyone tried successfully or maybe not successfully a "Launch", the concept of Jeff Walker? This is his book, maybe someone of you read that, too? Launch: An Internet Millionaire's Secret Formula To Sell Almost Anything Online, Build A Business You Love, And Live The Life Of Your Dreams: Walker, Jeff: 0001630470171: Amazon.com: Books

In a nutshell it's a concept of e-mail-marketing for mostly educational products, but can get - according to him - applied to any form of business. I read it and also attended a free course and I need to say, that lots of his explanations, ideas and concepts are resonating with TMF:
- he focuses on real value and perceived value;
- repeats again and again, that it's not a get-rich-quick process is and that it takes lots of effort to set his concept in place;
- emphasizes to start rather than waiting and dying in perfection;
- getting out of the building and TALKING to people to receive feedback/create value
- and I could go on.

Meaning: For me he seems legit and I'm currently implementing his concept and will give it a try. Anyways I'll learn from it and in worst case it's an additional check on my "doesn't work list" and in best case I make some revenue and go one step further in my journey.

So ... experiences with Jeff Walker? Anyone?
 

robertwills

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Hmmm I guess I need to be more specific somehow.

"When it comes to marketing and advertising your business specifically... Whose advice do you take regularly?"

The data, sure. But who taught you to read that data? Google? YouTube?

Which friends in your industry? Where did they pick up their tricks? Experience? Or did they learn it from somewhere?
That's easy. Following the one that works - David Ogilvy, the father of advertising.
 

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Joe Polish is a good marketer too, especially if you're a carpet cleaner. That's how he started out. He has a podcast I Love Marketing.
For those in Phoenix, he also started a I love marketing meetup. He doesn't attend regularly, but it's still a good meetup. (To be fair, last time I attended was pre-C0VlD). Good content, and I usually meet at least one other interesting business owner.

I'm just curious: Anyone tried successfully or maybe not successfully a "Launch", the concept of Jeff Walker? This is his book, maybe someone of you read that, too? Launch: An Internet Millionaire's Secret Formula To Sell Almost Anything Online, Build A Business You Love, And Live The Life Of Your Dreams: Walker, Jeff: 0001630470171: Amazon.com: Books

In a nutshell it's a concept of e-mail-marketing for mostly educational products, but can get - according to him - applied to any form of business. I read it and also attended a free course and I need to say, that lots of his explanations, ideas and concepts are resonating with TMF:
- he focuses on real value and perceived value;
- repeats again and again, that it's not a get-rich-quick process is and that it takes lots of effort to set his concept in place;
- emphasizes to start rather than waiting and dying in perfection;
- getting out of the building and TALKING to people to receive feedback/create value
- and I could go on.

Meaning: For me he seems legit and I'm currently implementing his concept and will give it a try. Anyways I'll learn from it and in worst case it's an additional check on my "doesn't work list" and in best case I make some revenue and go one step further in my journey.

So ... experiences with Jeff Walker? Anyone?
Jeff Walker is legit. I don't know about this book in particular. It sounds like an update / rehash of his whole product launch formula.

Like any other guru type, take the good and apply it, ignore the bad or the irrelevant.

missed you bro
laughing-laugh.gif
 

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Most successful business marketing actually used either or both of the strategy.

Even if you look at MJ’s publishing business, and it works with this forum. It is a combination of the two strategy (not exact but similar).

There is no clear loss leader but products (books) and service (insider subscription) are competitively priced with seeming not high gross margin. But this is compensated with low customer acquisition cost and hence higher net margin. Books like MFL brings traffic to forum, forum brings writing ideas (problems to solve) for MJ to write next books, forums traffic bring leads to books also and also insider subscription. Forums brings volunteer contributors who also want to promote themselves and hence they will create valuable content, which brings more traffic to the forum, so that MJ does not have to do the heavy lifting like a Youtuber, but more like a governor decides dos and donts.

Kevin, let me ask you this: you've got some very specific marketing strategies (and they're great ones) -- who did you learn them from originally?

They're common these days, and I'm sure you've heard them from multiple people... but if you had to say "this is the one person I learned it from" ... who would that be?
 

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Kevin, let me ask you this: you've got some very specific marketing strategies (and they're great ones) -- who did you learn them from originally?

They're common these days, and I'm sure you've heard them from multiple people... but if you had to say "this is the one person I learned it from" ... who would that be?
When I just started working in sales (selling financial products) there was this common common advice being taught to rookies (by the more senior sales people) to acquire customers. Pitch low commitment products to secure a customer first, which will be good in the long run. It is just one of the advice that is given out of many that I have heard.

It is just something that is intuitive to the sales community. I didn’t even know it is called loss leader strategy until very much later.

Over the years I just become more and more aware of how powerful it actually is.

Private Traffic Reservoir is a popular buzzword in the Chinese business community online a few years back then. It traces to the book written by CMO of Luckin Coffee.
 

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