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GOLD! Let's Talk About Entrepreneurial Depression

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Walter Hay

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I still see some very sad posts by people who can't find a way out. On reading a number of them it is my strong opinion that they are suffering from either Bipolar Disorder, or Clinical Depression.

Having for over 10 years collaborated with a top notch psychiatrist, much in demand on the speaking circuit, I learned a lot about various mental illnesses as a result of doing a lot of research for him.

Rather than go over what I posted nearly a year ago, I suggest that some could find help from what I wrote in Post #59.

One important point that I did not mention is that Bipolar Disorder is widespread, but very seriously under-diagnosed.

A major reason for the failure to diagnose the illness is that most people who have no idea what is causing their erratic behavior and depression, only present when they are depressed, and many psychiatrists are too lazy to ask a few vital questions. The result is they prescribe something to treat depression and that makes manic behavior worse.

This is not just my opinion. Professors of Psychiatry have in a number of journals over the years castigated psychiatrists who won't make that little extra effort.

All they have to do is ask this one question and the answer will tell them whether or not they should ask the remaining questions that will confirm or reject a diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder: "Have you ever had the opposite of depression, when you’ve been extremely happy, over the top, doing things out of character or talking too fast? "

Surely they could at least make that tiny effort.

Walter
 

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srodrigo

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Not depression (I think...), but it's true that I felt happier before I got into this unscripted mindset. All I wanted was to progress in my career and become the best software developer I could. I was happy.

Now I don't care that much about my career and look at the clock thinking that I'm not achieving my (new) goals, and makes me feel unhappy.

I'm still glad that I read the books though haha.
 

El Dorito

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Look, it's 2020 already as mind programming works on the encephalon to kick depression to the curb.

There are chemical imbalances to the brain that can cause depression.
 
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WJK

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Look, it's 2020 already as mind programming works on the encephalon to kick depression to the curb.

There are chemical imbalances to the brain that can cause depression.
I know from personal experience that depression is real. It's like being stuck in place... frozen... unable to move forward. BUT, I also know that you can make yourself get up and move. That action is as powerful, or more so, than the meds that most people end up taking.

I understand it this way: Depression is one way of reacting to feeling in danger. People and animals freeze in place, turn to fight, or they run away. Depression put simply -- is when a person feels afraid all the time. It puts them into a 24/7 freeze mode. They cannot function. Conversely, others become perpetually angry (fight reaction) or unable to settle into one location (always running away). Our knee-jerk reaction was learned early in life and it's deeply embedded. Once that pattern is recognized, change is possible. Choosing a reaction to danger is a decision, not a given.
 
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AppMan

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I know from personal experience that depression is real. It's like being stuck in place... frozen... unable to move forward. BUT, I also know that you can make yourself get up and move. That action is as powerful, or more so, than the meds that most people end up taking.

I understand it this way: Depression is one way of reacting to feeling in danger. People and animals freeze in place, turn to fight, or they run away. Depression put simply -- is when a person feels afraid all the time. It puts them into a 24/7 freeze mode. They cannot function. Conversely, others become perpetually angry (fight reaction) or unable to settle into one location (always running away). Our knee-jerk reaction was learned early in life and it's deeply embedded. Once that pattern is recognized, change is possible. Choosing a reaction to danger is a decision, not a given.
From what I know depression is more loosing desire in life in general and see no value or happeniess there, which make you loose desire to do things because you see them meaningless
 

Primeperiwinkle

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I know from personal experience that depression is real. It's like being stuck in place... frozen... unable to move forward. BUT, I also know that you can make yourself get up and move. That action is as powerful, or more so, than the meds that most people end up taking.

I understand it this way: Depression is one way of reacting to feeling in danger. People and animals freeze in place, turn to fight, or they run away. Depression put simply -- is when a person feels afraid all the time. It puts them into a 24/7 freeze mode. They cannot function. Conversely, others become perpetually angry (fight reaction) or unable to settle into one location (always running away). Our knee-jerk reaction was learned early in life and it's deeply embedded. Once that pattern is recognized, change is possible. Choosing a reaction to danger is a decision, not a given.

I’ve never read this about fear being connected to depression but it makes perfect sense. Thank you for sharing it.
 

WJK

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From what I know depression is more loosing desire in life in general and see no value or happeniess there, which make you loose desire to do things because you see them meaningless
Yes, it can appear that everything has lost meaning. But, by digging down under that lack of interest, I usually find that there is an overwhelming fear or huge knot of pain that has overshadowed everything else. Usually, my inner self is telling me that I need to solve something -- or pay attention to an issue that I've been ignoring. It's time for changes -- to rethink things -- a shift in my life.
Depression is different from being sad. Sad is dealing with a loss or a traumatic event. Feeling depressed is harder to define since it is not usually visibly directly related to something specific. The problem must, many times, be discovered and explored.
You say that "you lose (the) desire to do things because you see them (as) meaningless". This will happen to you time and time again over your life. Things that used to be very important to me no longer even move me. I just don't care anymore. It's not depression. It's just the process of living through different life experiences.
Maybe you have another experience from me and the people around me. What is yours?
 

sparechange

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I've been feeling kinda crappy lately, tons of rejections..... people not wanting my product, getting told no etc.

Grind more I guess, still need to hit my goal of Mj's recommendation for 10k/1k impressions... Then I can do some deep evaluation.

Doing runs and fitness stuff helps a bit.. slowly driving myself insane

34693
 

WJK

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I've been feeling kinda crappy lately, tons of rejections..... people not wanting my product, getting told no etc.

Grind more I guess, still need to hit my goal of Mj's recommendation for 10k/1k impressions... Then I can do some deep evaluation.

Doing runs and fitness stuff helps a bit.. slowly driving myself insane

View attachment 34693
Have you figured out how many no answers you must get in order to get a yes? When I was selling, I knew my odds. I was always afraid I would quit one or two more no answers before I got that yes. What if it takes 99 no answers to get your one yes? What if you stopped asking at #97 or #99????? I also used a deck of cards. You shuffle them. Sometimes the face cards are scattered throughout the deck. Sometimes they are all together -- or a couple of them are together. I know that there are yes answers out there IF I ask the right way and don't quit.
 

sparechange

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Have you figured out how many no answers you must get in order to get a yes? When I was selling, I knew my odds. I was always afraid I would quit one or two more no answers before I got that yes. What if it takes 99 no answers to get your one yes? What if you stopped asking at #97 or #99????? I also used a deck of cards. You shuffle them. Sometimes the face cards are scattered throughout the deck. Sometimes they are all together -- or a couple of them are together. I know that there are yes answers out there IF I ask the right way and don't quit.

Interesting way to look at it, haven't figured that number out as I'm only getting no's now, but lets see...
 

WJK

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Interesting way to look at it, haven't figured that number out as I'm only getting no's now, but lets see...
It a matter of figuring out your averages over a lot of encounters. I use to use a baggie of dried peas that I would transfer to another baggie as I made my contacts. That way I could keep count. It also made it harder for me to quit and go home before I make the number of contacts I had planned.
 

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Seniorpreneur

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It's a tough topic, but one that should not be taboo to talk about.

If you choose the life of an entrepreneur, there's one thing you need to accept that's not in almost any business book: Your probability of being depressed, stressed, and anxious skyrockets.



You're 4x more likely to be depressed at some point if you choose the "fastlane" path. To get through the dark times, you have to be mentally strong and prepared. You also have to acknowledge that this is something that can happen, and be ready to get help when you need it.

The life of an entrepreneur is not easy. Socially, you're considered an outcast by family members and friends that all have slowlane jobs. Financially, you're continuously on the brink of ruin until you get something going. Ego-wise, you're bouncing between feeling like a god and felling like a bum. I've been there, I know. I'm still there every once in awhile.

It's hard, and something you need to prepare for.

In my life, I'm currently struggling with a best friend that's become an alcoholic - and on the inside it's tearing me apart. He couldn't handle the stress and turned to drinking. As his numbers didn't meet with his time expectations, that led to more drinking and more depression, and more drinking again. He's on a downward spiral and we're doing our best to make help him, making sure he doesn't do anything stupid, but bit by bit he's losing a part of himself each day.

It's incredibly hard to see, but I get it.

I've personally had suicidal thoughts, and know a good number of entrepreneurs that were in a similar boat. Start of 2017 I had a paper net worth over a million at 25. End of 2017, I had my money stolen by a factory, and went broke. When I found out I lost it all, I spent the night drinking a fifth by myself in a Malaysian nightclub wondering if I should end it. The next day I woke up, realized I loved myself, and started questioning why I'd ever think that. So I bought a ticket to a village in Thailand and did Muay Thai every day until I got my mind right. I caught my depression before it could catch me.

This is something that you need to prepare for. For a lot of you ambitious folks, it's something that comes with the territory. Don't believe me?

Here are quotes from a few top entrepreneurs:











This is something that a lot of ambitious people go through.

And it's not something you should be ashamed of, if it hits you too. However, it is something that you need to acknowledge exists as a risk, and determine if you have the mental fortitude to jump into entrepreneurship and the fastlane.

You also need a plan to deal with the stress, sadness, and darkness if it comes.

For me, things that really help are:
  • Working out. It's a great stress relief that releases endorphins and helps you feel better little by little.
  • Having friends that are going through or have gone through the same struggle. This forum is amazing with the wealth of entrepreneurial experiences. It's nice to know that you're not alone and not feel as isolated. Meet these people in real life to make it more real.
  • Staying away from substances when I'm sad or stressed. If I'm feeling down, I stay away from anything that can be a crutch. There's very little in life that three nights of sleep can't fix. Stay away from alcohol, drugs, and other substances when you're feeling down. They won't help you, just make matters worse.
  • Things that I'm proud of and can point at. Some of my proudest accomplishments are people that I've helped. When you're feeling good, consider going out and helping others. Consider this your mental insurance policy when you're feeling down. When you're down, just think of the people you've helped, and use that as motivation to go forward.
For yourself, make sure you have your own plan if things go bad. And remember: your mental health is more important than any dollar you make. Your identity isn't money, or how your business is doing. Those are just things that you happen to do.

Any thoughts?
At 75 I'm very happy to be a Seniorpreneur. The main difference that I found in my own life is that today I am mostly giving back to society as a transcendent instead of blindly trying to rip people off including friends and relatives. It is possible to find bliss in an entrepreneurship career. However, in most cases your values are very important especially in the 10th chapter of your life and beyond.
 

WJK

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At 75 I'm very happy to be a Seniorpreneur. The main difference that I found in my own life is that today I am mostly giving back to society as a transcendent instead of blindly trying to rip people off including friends and relatives. It is possible to find bliss in an entrepreneurship career. However, in most cases your values are very important especially in the 10th chapter of your life and beyond.
I have been self-employed for almost all of my adult life -- an entrepreneur -- for about the last 45 years. Some days have been difficult and others have been wonderful. It has given me a lot of moments where I have paid forward or given back. Character and personal values are everything.
 

PirriRichFast

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At the moment i have a Burnout..
Also feel depressed allot of times i guess.
But also have this burning desire!! To get a better job and i will get a better job!
Also i will get my own company!
Always feed your mind and body with the right things
Always learn new ways to make yourself stronger.. because this world is a hard cold f up place sometimes.

I commit myself to everyday doing the Wim Hof breathing in the morning then after that taking a cold shower.
and stay under the cold shower for atleast 3 minutes.
Eating healthy foods, taking vitamines.
Exercise and i already feeling damn good doing all these! Fo burn outs and depression! lets fight for or lives and family!!

Victory for all of us!!

View: https://youtu.be/0BNejY1e9ik

View: https://youtu.be/vPktBJzi88g

View: https://youtu.be/iiByqenA9tE
 

cm-devpreneur

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Thank you for starting this conversation.

When it comes to starting up my own business sometimes I feel I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. I say I wouldn't have it any other way. The truth is I live in constant fear that I am not good enough to run a business but what's the alternative?

I've had a few jobs and it's always the same story. I am very excited at the start, the reality sinks in, the longing to be on my path, doing things my way, and before I know it I'm sinking into a depression. Feeling trapped.

Emotionally I have always been a mess, being self-employed helps. Because at least I don't have to drag myself to work even when I feel like curling up in a ball and crying. I can take a couple of hours to get my head straight and I can structure my day in a way that works better for me.

I am learning to overcome all the things that scare me and make me depressed because I am on this journey. I am becoming a person of value and that makes me feel like my life has purpose.

I am no longer seduced by the safety net of a job even though I could use it to be fair. But the slowlane promises you some security but there is more to life. When I die I don't want to say I played it safe, I never used my credit card. I never went hungry, I saved 10% of my pay cheque every month, I paid my mortgage off before I turned 50.

Those things are all great but if you are called to do something else I think life is simply not worth it if you don't answer that call. So here I am, having one of those days when I feel like a total fraud. But if I go back I will always feel like this and never become the best version of me. Instead I will slowly die inside, haunted by regrets of what could have been.

Play it safe, or take the insane choice that feels way out of my league and beyond my emotional strengh. f*ck it! You only live once. Truth I'll be depressed either way but I bet it'll feel a bit better knowing at least I did things my way.
 

cm-devpreneur

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Thank you for starting this conversation.

When it comes to starting up my own business sometimes I feel I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. I say I wouldn't have it any other way. The truth is I live in constant fear that I am not good enough to run a business but what's the alternative?

I've had a few jobs and it's always the same story. I am very excited at the start, the reality sinks in, the longing to be on my path, doing things my way, and before I know it I'm sinking into a depression. Feeling trapped.

Emotionally I have always been a mess, being self-employed helps. Because at least I don't have to drag myself to work even when I feel like curling up in a ball and crying. I can take a couple of hours to get my head straight and I can structure my day in a way that works better for me.

I am learning to overcome all the things that scare me and make me depressed because I am on this journey. I am becoming a person of value and that makes me feel like my life has purpose.

I am no longer seduced by the safety net of a job even though I could use it to be fair. But the slowlane promises you some security but there is more to life. When I die I don't want to say I played it safe, I never used my credit card. I never went hungry, I saved 10% of my pay cheque every month, I paid my mortgage off before I turned 50.

Those things are all great but if you are called to do something else I think life is simply not worth it if you don't answer that call. So here I am, having one of those days when I feel like a total fraud. But if I go back I will always feel like this and never become the best version of me. Instead I will slowly die inside, haunted by regrets of what could have been.

Play it safe, or take the insane choice that feels way out of my league and beyond my emotional strengh. f*ck it! You only live once. Truth I'll be depressed either way but I bet it'll feel a bit better knowing at least I did things my way.


I realised perhaps this was too negative so I will add something a bit more positive:

I used to be a lot more unstable when I was younger and have really bad depression. At my lowest point I was crying for no reason, barely able to keep my head up.

What worked for me personally:
- Therapy and support from my family. They were just there and didn't judge me.
- Exercise everyday. Even if it was just for one minute.
- Listen to inspirational podcasts - personally I listened to Knowledge for Men, Tony Robbins and some Mel Robbins YouTube videos
- Patience. It's a process and it takes time
- Have a reason for your life. Most pressure comes from other people's expectations. When you let go of all that and decide for yourself what's most important to you. You can pursue it at your own pace. It takes time to shake off people's expectations, it's something I'm still working on personally
- Remember you will die one day. Never forget that moment. You don't want to have any regrets on that day. And the small stuff is not going to matter. Did your businesses never make a penny? Did you build an empire? Is that what's going to matter to you in that moment or is there something else that will be more important in that moment? That's the thing you neeed to find out for yourself and make that your life mission
- I've come a long way with my depression, for me, depression has always been something I can spot a mile away. I can tell when I'm starting to head in that direction. If you ignore the signs, you get closer and closer until you fall in. But if you don't take action you'll need help. Having your life's mission helps you spot the signs early on IMO
- What could be more important than enjoying your life. If you need help, just go for it. Find a therapist who gets you and speak with them as often or as little as you want

Also here is a free course on happiness and well-being you might find helpful - The Science of Well-Being
 

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