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GOLD! Let's Talk About Entrepreneurial Depression

biophase

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I always seem to struggle with my mood the most during the summer as it is the time in my business where sales are down, inventory costs go up (ordering for Christmas), and money gets tight. This year I haven’t been near as “down” as previous years and I think it’s because I have another goal I’m working on too (weight loss). Even if my profit numbers aren’t immediately affected by the effort I’m putting into the business my weight loss shows results of how much work I’m putting in on that front.That direct results vs effort has seemed to help my mood and the “summer slump” I go through most every year.
If I remember correctly, you live in AZ right? The summer heat can definitely drop your mood. I remember that every August I would want to move out of AZ. Always seems like a lull during June-August in both ecommerce and productivity.
 

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Ecom man

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If I remember correctly, you live in AZ right? The summer heat can definitely drop your mood. I remember that every August I would want to move out of AZ. Always seems like a lull during June-August in both ecommerce and productivity.
Yeah I live near Phoenix so 105-115 most all summer long.
 

Sadik

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you will say this until you get clinically depressed yourself. And then you'll say it no longer. You'll know better.
There really is no need to pull down @Johnny boy . He's young and has a very positive outlook of life. We were all there too. I too once felt that there really is nothing I could not do. I still believe it, but also understand that there is a price to everything. You learn as you mature. Self belief, even if sometimes bordering on narcissism is any time better than self doubt.
 

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Wait...it happened in Malaysia....? I'm shocked!

Good grief.

No escrow, partial payment terms, or sitting in their offices ( at least that's what everyone does here in Malaysia when the cash collection gets late)?


For entrepreneurs, I guess maybe civil court or if there's contract breach, go for business courts, if you'd call one?

Or if you join the related industry association, you could make some noise there?
Guess that is where networking plays a role.

But if it really happened in Malaysia, for OP's case, I haven't heard of clear legal provisions specially for expats until I met one expat entrepreneur at a recent Quora meetup. Somehow there's just a 'hidden world' of business around here.

I can understand though that newcomers to Malaysia can sometimes can miss out a few things regarding the legal due diligence.


I have an aunt in New Zealand.
The country is beautiful, but somehow, the doctors give the anti depressants too freely to the patients.

Goes something like this, according to my aunt:

Patient: I got depression.
Doctor: Mmmm here's the pills.


I mean...there's got to be a redline between full-blown depression and just a mild moodiness from a rainy day, right?
But it seems the folks just take the pills whenever they feel the slightest tingle, or so I hear from my aunt.

And apparently the government sponsors much of the meds, so the folks end up hooked on the anti-depressants. Doesn't actually kill them, but if they don't take it regularly, they fall to pieces.

Even worse, the poor folks, especially younger employees in my aunt's workplace (she works part-time as a packer for a grocery store), have began to forgot how to control their minds to handle the sadness properly.
Unless a person has at least some knowledge of the biochemistry of the brain, they will possibly not understand the reality of depression; or of mania for that matter.
It is important for people suffering from either of those problems to understand:
  • They are not to blame.
  • They are not lazy.
  • They are not faking it.
  • Their parents are not to blame.
  • They are not fools, or intellectually impaired.
  • They are not a failure.
Here's a very simplified description of the brain function:

The human brain is rather like a complex electrical circuitry, or some might prefer to describe it as a computer. It has countless little components called neurons, with protrusions that are in effect electrical contacts. These are protected by a substance called myelin which to all intents and purposes acts as an insulation.

In some severe illnesses, the myelin breaks down, causing what amount to short circuits. No fault in the person in such cases, but their behavior can change markedly.

A breakdown in the brain's electrical system can be a result of a multitude of factors. Stress, whether physical or mental is a major factor. There are other significant causes, including something as simple as exposure to an allergen, or even a genetic inheritance that weakens the system, just as some inherit genes that weaken their heart, lungs, etc.

Intake of mind altering substances is a well known cause of the breaking down of the brain's normal functions.

The most extreme form of stress causing the circuits to break down is deliberate brainwashing. Constant torture, or even repeated threats, or persistent repetitive sounds, or lights flashing, can all induce a breakdown of the system. When the brain becomes overloaded by these stresses, it actually switches off like a circuit breaker in a power board.

That effect is known as "protective inhibition", and is the brain state required for brainwashing to be effective. At that time a person is almost totally suggestible. They will believe that black is white. They will hate their former friends, associates, or loved ones if told that they do. Their former beliefs can be discarded and the opposite adopted.

I write all of this to highlight the fact that there are biochemical factors in severe cases of depression or mania, and to a large extent they are outside of the person's control. That is not to say that there are not good preventative measures possible. Some have been mentioned by others; including exercise, healthy diet, etc.

It is important to differentiate between the two main types of depression: Circumstantial, and clinical. The former is a result of unpleasant or sad events. We all feel that to some degree, although sometimes it is only fleeting. The latter is invariably a result of factors such as I mentioned above.

Unless there is an underlying cause that makes us unhappy for a prolonged period, we get can over circumstantial depression.

Clinical depression is quite another matter. The worst thing that you can do to a person suffering from that is to tell them to just get over it. Or as one poster has done, to deny its existence. What is needed is professional assistance, which might take the form of correcting the deficiencies in a person's lifestyle, but more commonly through appropriate medication that will remedy the malfunctioning synapses and neurons.

Walter
 

LPPC

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Amazing input from a lot of the previous posts.

I think a lot of the "worldly" techniques have been mentioned above and have to be taken with great importance and action. Because your body affects the mind and soul and vice versa.

However, what about from a spiritual prospective? I think a lot of the forum members here believe in a God of some sort. Doesn't matter which religion in this context.

This belief of God exists since man existed. It was and still used to cope with life and its struggles.

Detachment is the key to all spiritual struggles. The moment you attach yourself to ANYTHING but God, which has a high probability of failing you, you will be disappointed. Because whether it fails or succeeds, one day it will disappoint you. Unlike God.

Isn't entrepreneurship a method we use to reach financial freedom? Then why should we allow it to be a financial prison?

Talking like this makes me sound like I'm the one that fixed his entrepreneurship depression and is now living in happiness. I'm far from it. But if it wasn't for it, I would of been in a hell of a depression.

I just wanted to share with anyone of you that might find this helpful and maybe make him in a better shape to hande the entrepreneurship rollercoaster.

It works for me and it worked for a lot of other people for thousands of years.
I'm not talking about belief in God alone, but in actively believing that whether you succeed or fail, you just acted upon the worldly reasons that you need to take in order to reach your goal, but whether you reach it or not, that's not your in hands eventually.

If you lost everything you own in the next one hour (God forbid), monetarily speaking, what will your next hours look like? Will you commit suicide? Or will you feel sad like any other human and then get back working to feed yourself and your family?
The Baghavad Gita for example teaches us beautifully to be fully engaged in this world, but also be detached from its outcomes. So do your utmost best while detaching and surrendering fully to the outcome.

I have been into spirituality for quite some time now and what I am about to say might sound ridiculous and the ego might hate it (don't underestimate this) but I found it to be true by investigating it and experiencing it myself... People have the feeling that there is some kind of entity inside their head/body that basically operates the human body. Meaning, that this entity chooses the actions to take. But if you really investigate, you find that this entity does not exist. You can't locate it. This would mean that every action you take is determined by the universe/God/nature etc.

Why is this important to realize? Because in my experience if you are convinced that ''you'' decide on what actions to take, you will not be able to totally surrender to the outcomes of your actions (and thus to God and its will) and will always blame yourself (unconsciously) for the actions you took that did not bear fruit. This means that you will not find the peace you are looking for.

An experiment to get a taste of this is the following. Be in a quite environment preferably and shut your eyes. There are thoughts coming in. Be aware of those thoughts. Do you choose those thoughts, or do they appear automatically out of nothing? Aren't decisions based off of emotions and thoughts that appear without any choosing? How can there be free will then?

Please note that word's can't really explain this. It is something that you have to experience yourself. You have to be willing to put effort into investigating it and the most tricky thing is that the ego might brainwash you into believing that it has control. The day the ego finds out that it has no control is the day that the ego will be destroyed. The ego absolutely does not want to be destroyed ;) This takes serious dedication to realise and investigate for yourself, but if you want investigate this and experience it yourself (very scientifically), then you can start with this video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsyplaii9p4&t


Unless a person has at least some knowledge of the biochemistry of the brain, they will possibly not understand the reality of depression; or of mania for that matter.
It is important for people suffering from either of those problems to understand:
  • They are not to blame.
  • They are not lazy.
  • They are not faking it.
  • Their parents are not to blame.
  • They are not fools, or intellectually impaired.
  • They are not a failure.
Here's a very simplified description of the brain function:

The human brain is rather like a complex electrical circuitry, or some might prefer to describe it as a computer. It has countless little components called neurons, with protrusions that are in effect electrical contacts. These are protected by a substance called myelin which to all intents and purposes acts as an insulation.

In some severe illnesses, the myelin breaks down, causing what amount to short circuits. No fault in the person in such cases, but their behavior can change markedly.

A breakdown in the brain's electrical system can be a result of a multitude of factors. Stress, whether physical or mental is a major factor. There are other significant causes, including something as simple as exposure to an allergen, or even a genetic inheritance that weakens the system, just as some inherit genes that weaken their heart, lungs, etc.

Intake of mind altering substances is a well known cause of the breaking down of the brain's normal functions.

The most extreme form of stress causing the circuits to break down is deliberate brainwashing. Constant torture, or even repeated threats, or persistent repetitive sounds, or lights flashing, can all induce a breakdown of the system. When the brain becomes overloaded by these stresses, it actually switches off like a circuit breaker in a power board.

That effect is known as "protective inhibition", and is the brain state required for brainwashing to be effective. At that time a person is almost totally suggestible. They will believe that black is white. They will hate their former friends, associates, or loved ones if told that they do. Their former beliefs can be discarded and the opposite adopted.

I write all of this to highlight the fact that there are biochemical factors in severe cases of depression or mania, and to a large extent they are outside of the person's control. That is not to say that there are not good preventative measures possible. Some have been mentioned by others; including exercise, healthy diet, etc.

It is important to differentiate between the two main types of depression: Circumstantial, and clinical. The former is a result of unpleasant or sad events. We all feel that to some degree, although sometimes it is only fleeting. The latter is invariably a result of factors such as I mentioned above.

Unless there is an underlying cause that makes us unhappy for a prolonged period, we get can over circumstantial depression.

Clinical depression is quite another matter. The worst thing that you can do to a person suffering from that is to tell them to just get over it. Or as one poster has done, to deny its existence. What is needed is professional assistance, which might take the form of correcting the deficiencies in a person's lifestyle, but more commonly through appropriate medication that will remedy the malfunctioning synapses and neurons.

Walter
I agree. Although depression is in some cases self created and other cases genetics, it still remains true that either way the experience that depressed people have is completely real. The horrible emotions and thoughts they experience are no joke.

So, I've never had any entrepreneurial depression during my 12 years in business so far. But the interesting about this part of the post is that I spend alot of time in the trees. I mountain bike almost daily but I'm now seeing the trees through the forest more.

When I did an ayahuasca ceremony last year, the shaman (who didn't know anything about me) said that I had a very strong Aspen tree aura around me. He said that they were my protector trees.

I happen to spend my summers around the largest aspen grove in the state of Colorado. In fact, just a few days ago, I actually walked up and hugged an aspen tree for like a minute. I don't just cruise right through the forest now, but I stop and pay attention, look at leaves, roots and dirt.

I don't know if it's all woo woo stuff, but it's seeming to all come together or be a massive coincidence in the past few years.
Touching story about the Aspen tree being your protector! I have experienced some ''magic'' in my life and totally believe in these kinds of paranormal activities/abilities of Shamans and the magical nature of reality. Ayahuasca is definitely something on my soon to-do list!
 
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linny75

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I've been depressed for a long time. Ever since I left college for the entrepreneur life.

I'm finally getting out of my depressive state.

I have isolated my self from friends and family. I couldn't cope with their outlook in life. Once I dropped out of college they started treating me differently. They thought I was just been lazy and throwing away everything.

It's hard to explain to most people that I'm looking for a way to escape the financial hamster wheel. I don't want to run on a wheel I want to run on a field.

But looking for that freedom is the depressive and lonely part. Working for someone else is very secured. You have HR backing you up if your boss is trying to get rid of you. You have unions, OSHA and even lawyers to lean on if your job is on the line and you're doing everything right. But as an entrepreneur there's no one to lean on.

Just like the company that stole OPs money. Who does he go to for justice? An employee has many institutions to get justice for unpaid or an abusive workplace. Entrepreneurs have none of that.

And people who have nice comfy jobs see entrepreneurs as lazy. Why? Because for the most part there is nothing to show. First you have to change your mindset, than researching all the aspects of a business etc. There's a lot of learning for those that don't come from business minded families. To outsiders it seems like wasted time.

If anyone reads this and needs a friend or someone to message PM me and I'll set up a discord for entrepreneur's emotional support. That way we always have a place to go to when we're feeling down.
I completely understand your feelings, in order to reach your goals you need to change inside and unfortunately that separates you from most of the population, I too had and still have this issue. I have achieved my financial goals so i no longer need to work if I don't want to, but then what do you do? And how do you connect with likeminded people in the real world when 95% of people are on the hamster wheel. I am working on this as a priority now,community of likeminded people is important to feel understood and less isolated.
 

Bertram

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Unless a person has at least some knowledge of the biochemistry of the brain, they will possibly not understand the reality of depression; or of mania for that matter.
It is important for people suffering from either of those problems to understand:
  • They are not to blame.
  • They are not lazy.
  • They are not faking it.
  • Their parents are not to blame.
  • They are not fools, or intellectually impaired.
  • They are not a failure.
Here's a very simplified description of the brain function:

The human brain is rather like a complex electrical circuitry, or some might prefer to describe it as a computer. It has countless little components called neurons, with protrusions that are in effect electrical contacts. These are protected by a substance called myelin which to all intents and purposes acts as an insulation.

In some severe illnesses, the myelin breaks down, causing what amount to short circuits. No fault in the person in such cases, but their behavior can change markedly.

A breakdown in the brain's electrical system can be a result of a multitude of factors. Stress, whether physical or mental is a major factor. There are other significant causes, including something as simple as exposure to an allergen, or even a genetic inheritance that weakens the system, just as some inherit genes that weaken their heart, lungs, etc.

Intake of mind altering substances is a well known cause of the breaking down of the brain's normal functions.

The most extreme form of stress causing the circuits to break down is deliberate brainwashing. Constant torture, or even repeated threats, or persistent repetitive sounds, or lights flashing, can all induce a breakdown of the system. When the brain becomes overloaded by these stresses, it actually switches off like a circuit breaker in a power board.

That effect is known as "protective inhibition", and is the brain state required for brainwashing to be effective. At that time a person is almost totally suggestible. They will believe that black is white. They will hate their former friends, associates, or loved ones if told that they do. Their former beliefs can be discarded and the opposite adopted.

I write all of this to highlight the fact that there are biochemical factors in severe cases of depression or mania, and to a large extent they are outside of the person's control. That is not to say that there are not good preventative measures possible. Some have been mentioned by others; including exercise, healthy diet, etc.

It is important to differentiate between the two main types of depression: Circumstantial, and clinical. The former is a result of unpleasant or sad events. We all feel that to some degree, although sometimes it is only fleeting. The latter is invariably a result of factors such as I mentioned above.

Unless there is an underlying cause that makes us unhappy for a prolonged period, we get can over circumstantial depression.

Clinical depression is quite another matter. The worst thing that you can do to a person suffering from that is to tell them to just get over it. Or as one poster has done, to deny its existence. What is needed is professional assistance, which might take the form of correcting the deficiencies in a person's lifestyle, but more commonly through appropriate medication that will remedy the malfunctioning synapses and neurons.

Walter
Walter your heart's truly in the right place.
Neuroscience currently has numerous competing and overlapping models of the brain and mind of the human mammal.
Your portrait comes straight out of military neuropsychiatry, a model which has been unchanged since the 1940s. Psychological and mental traumas can have much the same impact on function as a blow to the head.
Otto Warmbier's brain damage was attributed solely to anguish and terror, despite the protective features of Asperger's Syndrome.
 

biophase

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In my opinion (and I don't know anything about depression) one must master their ego. Again, this is all my opinion. I feel that the ego constantly makes you compare yourself to others and when you don't like the answer, depression or a sense of low self esteem creeps up. I highly recommend The Ego is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday.

Society says you are supposed to be this and that in life. But what if you're not? What if you're ok, with you. Nobody can take that from you.

For you guys going through this entrepreneurial journey, yeah it's hard and rough. But that's what it is. Your friends working at corporate jobs may have boring lives doing the same stuff everyday. You are living this dynamic and unwritten life where you may hit it big in 3 months, while the 40hr week friends will be in the same place. Everyone views life and their space and worth in different ways. You just need to be comfortable with yours.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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I am working on this as a priority now,community of likeminded people is important to feel understood and less isolated.
How are you building a community? Would you like to start a discord ? You know get the ball rolling.
 

JunkBoxJoey_JBJ

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@AgainstAllOdds thank you for writing this and putting it out there on the forum. I touched on it briefly in my thread The Desert of Desertion is real... and I'm in it.

But the Desert of Desertion can quickly turn into straight depression. And honestly, I'm there.

We all know that finances are usually the biggest trigger for this sort of thing, in our world. We're always flirting with the edge of financial collapse. And it gets compounded when it affects "the real world", i.e. your family.

Having a newborn, it really weighs on me.
"If the business collapses, will all of these credit cards come after me personally?"
"Are we going to have to move out of a house into an apartment?"
"Is it fair to her that I'm always thinking about the business, even when I'm home?"

I'd love to say I've found some way to cope and handle the stress and depression, but I haven't. Having a supportive wife, who picks up on my cues helps though. Having friends in the game like @Greg R and the other guys in my mastermind help.

But its something I really need to focus on finding an outlet for. Because the depression leads to lethargy, and lethargy means I don't accomplish things that need to be done.. which only hurts the business and leads to more stress and depression.
Every time...

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-sUKoKQlEC4
 

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Soder

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We often hear that falling makes you stronger and in my case it has been that way.

For many books that I have read and many close experiences that I have studied, only when you have those sensations in which you have no place to hold on, that you see that the ground moves, when you lose everything, is when your head changes.

I wish there was another way, I wish there was a training or some book, but I haven't found it and I doubt it exists. I read several hours a day and several books a month, I try to learn the lessons of the great teachers, ... but there is nothing that comes close to falling, falling to the bottom.

My experience is not more special than any of those around here, it won't even be the worst, but it is my downfall to the bottom, to anxiety, to losing any stability.

A few years ago, in my comfortable slowlane planning my fastlane, a stranger proposed to create a business with me, he wanted to be my partner. For my desire to leave the rat race I accepted and the business was not what he had promised. I don't blame my partner, it's more fanciful than a bad person.

And I don't blame myself either, in life there are no mistakes, only lessons and these are repeated until we learn them. The more confident we are in our beliefs, the harder the lesson.

Mine were: be extremely conservative (worst case scenario always), do not do business with a stranger (it seems ridiculous but I did), value what you have, if you do not consider CENTS at the beginning of your planning, you will remember all your life , etc. This ended in a certain depression and anxiety that separated me from my friends, another lesson, never do this.

Gradually I accept, assuming that this is life and that the lessons are not worth 1h in a class, $10 in a book, not even the $100k of any good university, no,... Best university is life, but the most expensive, it charges you in anxiety, depressions, hundreds of thousands of dollars, relationships, ... charges everything you have until you learn the lesson, and you learn it and never be the same again. And everything is worth it, because without learning the lesson you cannot go to the next level.
 
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guy93777

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depression comes from too much expectation while the odds of winning are against us.


if you accept a life of mediocrity, you can't be depressed since you have nothing to lose and nothing to gain.

you are just happy with what you have and what you are : the stoicism philosophy

same ideas in the eastern philosophies : once we have accepted the fact that life is absurd and cruel

then we don't suffer anymore



you should look at this thread :





.
 
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guy93777

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the depressed american has more wealth,success and so on than 99 % of people who lived
on earth since 50,000 years

there is a problem with the american mindset.

.
 

MattR82

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Say what you want, I know this is a highly unpopular belief and I fully expect other people to get pissed I’m saying this. So just know if anyone gets mad, feel free to not tell me because I don’t care.

Depression is made up bullshit by people who enjoy being victims and anyone who “has” it is just being lazy in blaming their problems on something they call “depression”. It’s a nice scapegoat.

Make more friends, date cute girls, get in shape, make more money, kick more a$$, live a better life, be better than most people, you’ll wonder where your silly depression went.

Believe what you want. I’ll keep believing what I see with my own two eyes and I’ll keep enjoying life.
I like a lot of your posts generally, but let's just say that sometimes it is fitting that you have the word "boy" in your profile.
 

MattR82

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Great read @AgainstAllOdds
Thanks for sharing those highs and lows. No doubt you have helped people that are or may have a similar experience.

Whats helped me in my mindset lately is to focus on the knowledge being king.

My fathers cousin went from millionaire (won lottery as a 20 year old), to broke, to millionaire again, to broke and in jail for tax evasion, and then millionaire again where he has stayed the last 20 years.
 

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Idk, I'm enjoying friends and girls plenty. I'm very glad I decided to start throwing parties and getting back into dating pretty hard.
Say what you want, I know this is a highly unpopular belief and I fully expect other people to get pissed I’m saying this. So just know if anyone gets mad, feel free to not tell me because I don’t care.

Depression is made up bullshit by people who enjoy being victims and anyone who “has” it is just being lazy in blaming their problems on something they call “depression”. It’s a nice scapegoat.

Make more friends, date cute girls, get in shape, make more money, kick more a$$, live a better life, be better than most people, you’ll wonder where your silly depression went.

Believe what you want. I’ll keep believing what I see with my own two eyes and I’ll keep enjoying life.
I have extreme highs and lows and they are my fault and it’s my personality. I remember telling my mom when I was a young kid that I thought I was either going to be a millionaire or homeless and that describes me very well.

I’m saying responsibility is always the answer. You gain nothing by pointing at a boogeyman and crying about it.

I remember being a broke ugly loser who got dumped by his girlfriend at 18 and then I just set out to change my circumstances, not pointing fingers at a “disease of the mind”.

Few people listen to me but as my life continues to change more and more people will. I’ve got time.
Your logic is flawed.

Until you have experience to separate out what's your perspective and what's actually true, your view will be flawed.

Here is what I mean, if I were to pretend to be you.

I use to weigh 300 lbs.

I decided that all I was going to eat was cookies, but I work so much I can only eat them 1 time a day, around 4pm. Just cookies only, and only 1 time a day.

I lost 120 lbs in less than a year doing this. No exercise at all either.


Therefor, since it worked for me and I seen it with my own eyes and I have time to convince everyone that I am right, sugary buttery choc. chip cookies ( a whole batch ) daily with no exercise will make you skinny and is the new diet fad. Only eat these and only eat 1 time a day. Nothing else.

Everyone else is wrong and I am right, because I did this myself. Anyone that says otherwise is just a loser that wants to blame being big boned as the issue instead of eating the damn cookies.

Make more cookies, sprinkle red sugar on top, do 2 batches if you can afford it, try gingersnaps, crank the oven to 350, splash some milk down with it, make better cookies than most people, you’ll wonder where your silly weight went.


^^^^^
I am sure you can punch holes all in this, right?

Hint, it had nothing to do with the cookies themselves.

It isn't always what you think and what worked for you, sometimes there is an underlying issue you can't see or know about.

.
 
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NMdad

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Thanks for voicing this rollercoaster. During the valleys, it's easy to feel alone/hopeless/depairing/etc.

There's very little in life that three nights of sleep can't fix.
Regarding suicidal thoughts: I'm continually amazed by the effect of even 1 night's sleep has on resetting the brain biochemical cocktail. Then, days afterward, looking back on those dark, poisonous thoughts, they seem ridiculous--like "Why the hell would I even consider that?!" It's like Scarlett O'Hara quote from Gone With The Wind: "tomorrow is another day."

And, just 120 minutes weekly in nature (doesn't have to be all at once) boosts feelings of wellbeing, across age groups, gender, occupation, & ethnicity: Two hours a week is key dose of nature for health and wellbeing
 

SaintQuinn

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In many cases Johnny Boy IS CORRECT...
Other people's comments here about clinical depression are correct as well....
Many times you will be in a loser's mindset and be "depressed" over circumstances that YOU directly caused.
I remember when I was a kid my deranged mother (a horrific, toxic blend of all the Cluster B personality disorders) was watching a talk show on TV with an author who wrote a book on depression...Guess what? After seeing that this moron was DEPRESSED.....



I have extreme highs and lows and they are my fault and it’s my personality. I remember telling my mom when I was a young kid that I thought I was either going to be a millionaire or homeless and that describes me very well.

I’m saying responsibility is always the answer. You gain nothing by pointing at a boogeyman and crying about it.

I remember being a broke ugly loser who got dumped by his girlfriend at 18 and then I just set out to change my circumstances, not pointing fingers at a “disease of the mind”.

Few people listen to me but as my life continues to change more and more people will. I’ve got time.
 
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QFP

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Such a great thread,well deserved gold status.
Subjects covered here i am well familiar with.
I wanted to post on here not sure how useful it would be, plus did not want to brain dump after
reading so many fab posts.
"the life of an entrepreneur Your probability of being depressed, stressed, and anxious skyrockets "
I have similar experiences with art.
I Like art so much that it is all I want to do in one form or another , spent my life scratching by no real
success, made ecomerce sites selling my stuff etc.
Does that make me an entrepreneur, I don't know.
The market for art covers everything from nik naks to high end some areas the barrier to entry is near impossible to scale, second guessing needs in other areas can make you crazy.
The sheer mood swings and long term effects of stress has been punishing.
Any artist whatever their chosen expressive media can put their Psyche on the line over and over.
ego and making art are inextricably linked this is a problem. [creatives have featured pretty high on the suicide lists over the years]
As others have mentioned the ability to detach your identity from the work is very important to mental
health.
The ability to observe the mind without attaching to thoughts, letting wash over you, standing in a noisy crowd hearing every voice but listening to no one.
No wants or desires just peace.
But over the years the downs of trying to make art pay have sort of trained my pain avoidance mechanism. [those who have trod the hard path of the entrepreneur no doubt get this]
Just the act of applying myself can create brain lock and anxiety. [currently a major struggle]
What i do enjoy is just the art pure creativity ,exploring to see where the journey take me,
in short play.
I do sell stuff often to people who give as presents to others and its lovely when i get emails back saying how happy the recipient is.
I especially enjoy giving away pieces, I have had my pleasure in making it .
So for me my ideal stress free = making art ,listening to rain and doing nothing in equal measure.
Simple.
Maybe i am a slacker at heart:smile2:

That's my 2,065 Sats to this wonderful thread.
 

TreyAllDay

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Posted a thread about this - didn't realize this gold thread existed.

Some things I may add is
  1. Realizing what your potential ACTUALLY is: I wasn't depressed in my early 20's because I had no clue what was possible. It wasn't even on my radar - I just wanted to survive. Once I dove into entrepreneurship and realized how much more I could be doing, I'm prone to depression not meeting those goals. When in fact, I have 10x more what I had in my early twenties.

  2. Disconnect from friends/family: I have a hard time relating to my friends and family, even my girlfriend sometimes (who I started dating when I was younger), and it causes friction.

I have difficulty with coping with stress - often food/alcohol/TV is my choice.

I think the most important thing we can do is remain present. It's so easy to put yourself on autopilot when you're busy and not pay attention to your health, goals, mental state, etc.
 

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WJK

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Good for you bringing this up @AgainstAllOdds.

I too have a friend who was (is?) suffering with alcoholism. He seems to have turned a corner and I hope your friend does too.

I’ve also been to a therapist/counselor recently as I was getting overwhelmed with what life’s thrown at me in the last few years. Overwhelm is not good.

Our mental and emotional health is probably more important than anything else. If we lose the will then everything else goes with it.

I was talking to a friend just yesterday who’s new to working for himself. I explained that it’s hard, that there’s ups and downs as you go along, and that you’ve got to take care of yourself.

I also told him that it doesn’t get easier, but you get stronger. I’ll add the caveat that I don’t mean we have to be “strong” all the time. I urge anyone who’s having problems to speak to someone. Speak to professionals too ... they can help us see the wood for the trees.
Over time, those feelings run in cycles with the different life phases. Each plane of existence has its own challenges. The start-up is a neck-breaking sprint that feels like it lasts forever. The middle ground of day-to-day management grinds on and one. Then there's the moment when you realize you've finally made it. And you look around to notice that almost no one around you is still standing. You left them in the dust long ago and you are very alone. You have broken away from the crowd and they are all looking at you with green eyes. I have learned that the biggest challenge of being successful is to find the joy along the way.
 

Mike S

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I was at my wits end last weekend. Anxiety definitely had the upper hand. Finally, my wife and I jumped in the car with the dog and headed to a large state park with nice water falls and rivers. All of my anxiety seemed to melt away. Something about getting out into nature helped me. Needless to say.....I am shopping around for a little weekender RV. I think nature may just be the medicine I need.
I went through a total shit storm about 12 years ago, lost 2 businesses, my daughter imploded and we had to send her to a therapeutic boarding program, etc... I basically lost everything and started again at age 50. One of my motivators was to buy an RV and travel once things turned around. I did both! Have an '05 Airstream 25' and am totally location independent. It's to the point now that if we're home for over 6 weeks we start jonesin' for the road. The downtime allowed by camping (glamping in our case) is amazing. Make the RV your escape pod and you'll reap huge rewards both personally as well as professionally.
 

Mike S

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Entrepreneurship is definitely a schizophrenic lifestyle. One day you're on top of the world and can do no wrong and the next you're in the depths of despair due to something that you may not have control of. I can say that even when the successes come your way, I tend to be extremely cautious with budget, expenses, wages etc, knowing that the wolves are always at the door. We've been fortunate as cash flow increases by the month and expenses are pretty much fixed at this time. I do sleep a lot better at night and look forward to waking up each morning and seeing how much money has come in overnight. Needless to say, my wife is sleeping better and the stress levels in our house are at an all time low.
 

Successful Steve

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I have extreme highs and lows and they are my fault and it’s my personality. I remember telling my mom when I was a young kid that I thought I was either going to be a millionaire or homeless and that describes me very well.

I’m saying responsibility is always the answer. You gain nothing by pointing at a boogeyman and crying about it.

I remember being a broke ugly loser who got dumped by his girlfriend at 18 and then I just set out to change my circumstances, not pointing fingers at a “disease of the mind”.

Few people listen to me but as my life continues to change more and more people will. I’ve got time.
Taking responsibility is easier said then done on a group post.

If you go to war and get both legs blown off, or if your at work and someone breaks into your home and murders your wife and infant daughter and you come home and see that, I think you won’t be thinking about how easy it is to take responsibility for depression. I think you will regret saying it’s made up bs.

Now if you’re talking about depression bc your gf breaks up with you then yea you’re just using that as a scapegoat but until you’ve been told by doctors your never going to be able to walk again from a bad accident, or the above scenarios of having your family murder, losing your vision to cancer, etc I think that if that happens to you, you’ll have more sympathy.
 

The-J

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Humans are so resilient yet so fragile. It's one of many dichotomies of our existence.

It doesn't take much to irreparably damage someone's mental health. At the same time, there is nothing that you can survive that you can't deal with.

Taking responsibility for one's own mental health is one of the most powerful things one can do. Yet, you must be very careful not to blame yourself for what happens to you or your mental states. If responsibility = blame to you, then you have a really messed up view of the world and would likely benefit from seeking therapy. It's not a healthy worldview.

Taking responsibility for your mental health means working toward improving it, rather than relying on the improvements themselves. If you're depressed, then it means committing time to exercise, better diet, regulating your sleep, seeking therapy, and possibly seeking medication. It doesn't mean 'stop being sad and be awesome instead'. (For those who hate the idea of 'taking medication to feel normal', let me introduce you to my friend with Crohn's disease or my cousin with autoimmune arthritis. They're normal people but without their medication they'd be non-functional.)

Just like taking responsibility for your physical health means exercising, better diet, regulating your sleep (wait a minute, I'm seeing a trend here). If you lose weight, have more energy, or get stronger, it's a byproduct of your activities. I believe (albeit somewhat strangely) that taking responsibility and developing habits are their own reward, and whatever additional benefits you get from them are simply additional.
 

Kybalion

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The Baghavad Gita for example teaches us beautifully to be fully engaged in this world, but also be detached from its outcomes. So do your utmost best while detaching and surrendering fully to the outcome.

I have been into spirituality for quite some time now and what I am about to say might sound ridiculous and the ego might hate it (don't underestimate this) but I found it to be true by investigating it and experiencing it myself... People have the feeling that there is some kind of entity inside their head/body that basically operates the human body. Meaning, that this entity chooses the actions to take. But if you really investigate, you find that this entity does not exist. You can't locate it. This would mean that every action you take is determined by the universe/God/nature etc.

Why is this important to realize? Because in my experience if you are convinced that ''you'' decide on what actions to take, you will not be able to totally surrender to the outcomes of your actions (and thus to God and its will) and will always blame yourself (unconsciously) for the actions you took that did not bear fruit. This means that you will not find the peace you are looking for.

An experiment to get a taste of this is the following. Be in a quite environment preferably and shut your eyes. There are thoughts coming in. Be aware of those thoughts. Do you choose those thoughts, or do they appear automatically out of nothing? Aren't decisions based off of emotions and thoughts that appear without any choosing? How can there be free will then?

Please note that word's can't really explain this. It is something that you have to experience yourself. You have to be willing to put effort into investigating it and the most tricky thing is that the ego might brainwash you into believing that it has control. The day the ego finds out that it has no control is the day that the ego will be destroyed. The ego absolutely does not want to be destroyed ;) This takes serious dedication to realise and investigate for yourself, but if you want investigate this and experience it yourself (very scientifically), then you can start with this video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsyplaii9p4&t




I agree. Although depression is in some cases self created and other cases genetics, it still remains true that either way the experience that depressed people have is completely real. The horrible emotions and thoughts they experience are no joke.



Touching story about the Aspen tree being your protector! I have experienced some ''magic'' in my life and totally believe in these kinds of paranormal activities/abilities of Shamans and the magical nature of reality. Ayahuasca is definitely something on my soon to-do list!
How can depression be self-created if there is no ''self''? From what I gather Your position is that the ego has no control and all the decisions are predetermined by the universe/God/nature. Are You contradicting Yourself or have I misunderstood Your point?
 

Bhanu

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I agree with the OP cent percent . While we work hard towards realizing our dream its very important to be in great mental shape. Talk to your friends, do yoga, take care of your body, enjoy, at the end of the day we are all going to die so relax and take it easy ..its very very important.
Just yesterday one of tycoon from India committed suicide as he could not take pressure anymore .He was a billionaire and biggest name in India's coffee chain industry .
 

ChrisV

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If you feel suicidal for more than six hours, for G-d's sakes go and eat some protein, meat, especially turkey.
This can not be overstated. I had Major Depression for like 10 years despite everything in my life being fine. I couldn't figure out why for the longest time and didn't want to go on meds. After a bunch of digging I figured it out: I simply wasn't getting sufficient protein intake.

I suffered for ten years because of this shit. I was young and just figured 'food is food, and as long as I'm not hungry, i'll be fine." Yea, no.


Especially be careful of too much sugar:



I (generally) follow these diet guidelines:


Of course there are other things that can contribute to Depression, but if your diet isn't good, it's the low-hanging fruit.
 

Mr992

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Say what you want, I know this is a highly unpopular belief and I fully expect other people to get pissed I’m saying this. So just know if anyone gets mad, feel free to not tell me because I don’t care.

Depression is made up bullshit by people who enjoy being victims and anyone who “has” it is just being lazy in blaming their problems on something they call “depression”. It’s a nice scapegoat.

Make more friends, date cute girls, get in shape, make more money, kick more a$$, live a better life, be better than most people, you’ll wonder where your silly depression went.

Believe what you want. I’ll keep believing what I see with my own two eyes and I’ll keep enjoying life.
This is what I sounded like at 18-22 years old.

I thought I was invincible and would own the world. But then shit happens.., especially in business.

Give it a few years and you'll understand.

Here's a list of people that likely were better looking than you, made more money than you, kicked more a$$ than you, and were "better" than most people. Their "silly depression" sadly didn't go away: List of suicides in the 21st century - Wikipedia

The mind is fragile.

Depression isn't something that can always be solved by success. @MTF pointed out earlier how the worst kind of depression can come from individuals that lack fulfillment from success.

In the real world, anyone can suffer from depression. Even someone like Justin Bieber who's slept with more super models than girls you've talked to has had depression.

One of the better recent examples of someone that came out with depression is Kevin Love:


This guy crosses off all the criteria on your list in the 99th percentile.


  • He has access to more people that want to be friends with him than most of us ever will.
  • He dates Kate Bock.
  • Is in better shape than anyone else.
  • He makes more money than almost anyone ever will.
  • Has won an NBA Championship - there's not much more a$$ kicking than that.
  • Lives a life we can only dream of.
  • And is overall "better" at every single aspect of life compared to the average person.
Yet he still struggles with anxiety and depression.


@Johnny boy Your attitude might be the correct one for the immediate future, but it's the wrong one completely in life. You're 22. Give it another 5 years. If you have enough friends, you'll start to notice some turning to substance abuse. You'll notice guys that were previously going out every night not going out anymore. You'll notice childhood friends that you thought were invincible "settling" after getting knocked down time and time again.

Everyone has highs. Everyone has lows.

If you have ambition and high hopes, your probability of missing expectations and feeling sad are even higher.

The goal is to escape that sadness, but if it comes, it's not something to be ashamed of, and definitely not "made up victim mentality bullshit".
Exactly.

you will say this until you get clinically depressed yourself. And then you'll say it no longer. You'll know better.
True.
 

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