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GOLD! If You're Doing This, You're Fooling Yourself That You're an Independent Thinker

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mclaren

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So true. Because of this I've wasted years. Literally wasted. I tried replicating other people's success in various fields but the thing is I never even got past the first step in those endeavors because I could never focus. Always reading differing opinions; some saying now is the best time to get into this market while others say the complete opposite. Then I would fall into the trap and start saying to myself things like, "maybe this isn't for you--there's too much competition here" or "before I can start I need to have ABCD...XYZ" and I'd drop it and look for the next hot thing.

Well, fck that. I've found something that interests me and more importantly requires some of my strongest skills. So I'm going to pursue that. There are a few verticals in this field and I'm already reading conflicting views on them. For a second I almost fell into the trap. But after reading this, fck that. I'm just going to pursue the one I think makes the most sense for me and disregard the noise that I read. Maybe I just need to get off internet forums. Lol. Also, maybe this belongs in my diary...
 

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Andy Black

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(Posted in my progress thread here.)


You don't need to be on any lists brother.

I find consuming content (reading, podcasts, courses, etc) a very slippery slope.

I'll do research to solve a problem right in front of me, and end up getting sucked down rabbit-holes.

There's so many people out there who's goal is to turn us into their consumer. (If I hear another word about funnels, webinars, and marketing automation I'll go spare! The world seems to have gone mad for sales funnels and Facebook bots - or so my Facebook feed would have me believe).

Someone recently told me something when I said I was performing "the great unsubscribe":

"You don't need to be on any lists brother."

"All you need is within now."

"Be a leader not a follower."

(and previously)

"You are enough."

Powerful words that help me to forge my own path and avoid the rabbit-holes.
 

jlwilliams

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Excellent thread.

Man, you hit on a piece of poison that I choked on for some time over the years. The whole doomsday, end of the world is coming, apocalyptic trip is a killer. It's fine for cheesy movie scripts but if you let it into your head it will piss on your mindset. I'm not saying that everything is sunshine and lollipops, but keeping ones head in Rick Grimes mode is just counter productive.
 
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MTF

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There are a few verticals in this field and I'm already reading conflicting views on them. For a second I almost fell into the trap.
Yeah, the worst thing about it is that even if you're aware of it you can still fall into the trap again and again. Granted, research is important, but if you encounter conflicting views, go with what you think is best, not this or that expert.

Man, you hit on a piece of poison that I choked on for some time over the years. The whole doomsday, end of the world is coming, apocalyptic trip is a killer. It's fine for cheesy movie scripts but if you let it into your head it will piss on your mindset. I'm not saying that everything is sunshine and lollipops, but keeping ones head in Rick Grimes mode is just counter productive.
It's super easy to fall victim to this if you're even slightly interested in investing (people predicting the biggest financial collapse ever) or survival (the end is near brother, stock up on ammo and canned food while you can).
 

Walter Hay

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Sorry if this momentarily derails this thread, but being somewhat cynical I ask:
Q:
How do you identify an independent thinker, also known in some circles as a non-conformist?
A: They all wear non-conformist labels like Diesel.

Walter
 
Last edited:

jlwilliams

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So true. Because of this I've wasted years. Literally wasted. I tried replicating other people's success in various fields but the thing is I never even got past the first step in those endeavors because I could never focus. Always reading differing opinions; some saying now is the best time to get into this market while others say the complete opposite. Then I would fall into the trap and start saying to myself things like, "maybe this isn't for you--there's too much competition here" or "before I can start I need to have ABCD...XYZ" and I'd drop it and look for the next hot thing.

Well, fck that. I've found something that interests me and more importantly requires some of my strongest skills. So I'm going to pursue that. There are a few verticals in this field and I'm already reading conflicting views on them. For a second I almost fell into the trap. But after reading this, fck that. I'm just going to pursue the one I think makes the most sense for me and disregard the noise that I read. Maybe I just need to get off internet forums. Lol. Also, maybe this belongs in my diary...

Are you inside my head? Am I splitting into multiple personalities and posting under different identities? It could be, or it could be that you and I have had eerily similar struggles. Good news seems to be we are both on a track that feels right and both shutting out the noise to bite it like a pit bull.

Then again, if you are me.... get back to work.
 

BigDaddyKane

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Jan 19, 2011
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you should make investments that are compatible with you, not with the other guy.
I'm going to think for myself and invest my resources in what I personally believe in, not what other investors believe to be the right choice.
This. This has been where I've been lately with my e-commerce product. It's a simple product but the message behind the brand and the strategy I'm taking to it is compatible to the context of what I know and my resources.

I remember 50 cent in a video once (I cant find it at the moment) saying something to the effect of "Nobody can beat me at being me." Oftentimes, that unique personal perspective on a business model, product, social construct, or any other piece of info is what can make the difference in the opportunity before you.
 
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@BigDaddyKane, 100%. Far too many people today would rather listen to someone else than to their gut (and by extension, they don't value themselves and their unique abilities enough). I'm still learning how to go with my instincts over seeking external validation.
 

MJ DeMarco

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Thread marked GOLD.

I further discovered that my main filter for the best investment opportunity was motivated by the belief that the world was about to end. I'm optimistic about the future, but somehow this belief still anchored itself in my head. This made me believe that the only worthy investment is real estate because it exists in the physical world. And you know, the world is about to collapse and soon there won't be Internet, electricity, banks, and the stock market. Stock up on real estate before they pull the plug.

The objective truth is that the world today is increasingly more digital, and if it were ever to revert, it would be the contents of your pantry that would be valuable, not the pieces of paper proving you own a certain building (which, by the way, would be as worthless as your stocks or bonds). I should have learned how to invest in canned food, not real estate.
I believe a home you own, free and clear, stocked with food, water, guns, and ammo is the best investment you can make, based on your "end of world" theory. Not only that, your home/residence will always be your biggest expense in your lifetime. Wouldn't say that's personal advice, but facts.

If you want a personal glimpse on what the best assets are during a global apocalypse event, read this book...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0765317583/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

They are home, food, water, guns, ammo, chemicals/gas (propane, kerosene, gas) medical supplies...
 
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Wow, thanks @MJ DeMarco for marking this thread gold.

I've read this book and some other survival fiction novels, too (I highly recommend The Survivalist series by Arthur T. Bradley though the post-apocalyptic scenario is far-fetched). All these assets are definitely useful, though I'd say that by far the most important assets are health/fitness and real-world skills.

Fortunately I no longer believe in doomsday scenarios and prefer to spend my energy thinking how to fix what's broken. Seems like a better use of time than worrying.
 

Hijena1

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This is incredible. Yesterday, I was thinking about the same subject and now this pops up.

Their success in their businesss is the by product of an entire lifetime of experiences that some random forum dweller on the internet can't replicate.
Very well said, thank you Lowtek.
 

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guy93777

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She basically lays out what concepts are, how they relate to reality, and how to ensure that your thinking is based on what you know rather than what other people say.

Ayn Rand was an INTJ model : " my way " against the world

this is the right way of thinking because smart people are not on earth to endorse the stupidity of the masse

28151






quotation : " most people are sheep "


28152



---> i am sad to say that most people here are sheep too because they are part of a system called society that think for them

the media think for them

the government think for them

propaganda think for them Public opinion - Wikipedia


etc. the list is endless


while the right thing to do would be to say :

" wait a minute, i am an individual, not the pet of society

so what's the best use of my mind ?

what 's the right goal / way of living according to my original mind ?

what's the next belief i need to get, the next action i need to do ?

why are we on earth anyway ? to be slaves of the media ? to watch TV ?"


since people are happy slaves of the system and don't think at all , then we can conclude that we can use them

because intelligence has the right to use stupidity for his goals

this is what the elites have been doing since the beginning of the world

anytime anywhere






.
 

Kevin88660

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Investing is an area where I am totally strategically aligned with MJ.

Rule number one of investing: stick to what you know and comfortable with.

And assuming that the lack of knowledge and experience is not a problem, I believe that people should invest most of their money in diversified liquid assets that carry a decent yield.

Because this is “ backed by data”. Value+Yield (no matter how you define it) outperform broad index market with minimum effort and attention required. And given the depth and width of the tools being offered in the liquid and tradable market, there is very little incentive to have your money in the illiquid market.
 

ExaltedLife

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Ayn Rand was an INTJ model : " my way " against the world

this is the right way of thinking because smart people are not on earth to endorse the stupidity of the masse

View attachment 28151






quotation : " most people are sheep "


View attachment 28152



---> i am sad to say that most people here are sheep too because they are part of a system called society that think for them

the media think for them

the government think for them

propaganda think for them Public opinion - Wikipedia


etc. the list is endless


while the right thing to do would be to say :

" wait a minute, i am an individual, not the pet of society

so what's the best use of my mind ?

what 's the right goal / way of living according to my original mind ?

what's the next belief i need to get, the next action i need to do ?

why are we on earth anyway ? to be slaves of the media ? to watch TV ?"


since people are happy slaves of the system and don't think at all , then we can conclude that we can use them

because intelligence has the right to use stupidity for his goals

this is what the elites have been doing since the beginning of the world

anytime anywhere






.
I don't want to speak for them, but I'd bet that both Tesla and Ayn Rand would reject the whole 4 letter psychology thing
 

GoodluckChuck

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I've been getting into social media for professional reasons, namely LinkedIn, and it blows me away the content people are sharing regularly.

It seems to be mostly a bunch of value vomitting quotes and "insights" on how everyone should live their lives.

Nobody is discussing anything. They just tell everyone else how to live and try to get likes. It's gross.

It's really made me realize how much influence the information entering my eyes and ears from my devices has on me. It doesn't matter if I don't agree with some things I see. There's so much info that enters my subconscious that I don't have time to filter it all.

It's got me convinced that the only way to truly think for myself is to throttle the info stream, a lot.

Even this forum with all it's great information can act as a deterrent to me thinking for myself.

I miss you all when I take breaks but as time goes on the breaks are getting longer and longer.

When was the last time we spent a whole week with our own thoughts without the influx of other peoples'? I can't remember, can you?
 

Uday Saroj

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Oct 7, 2016
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I love to define myself as a free thinker. I follow my own path, make my own conclusions and trust myself.

The truth is, I've been fooling myself the entire time.

And if you believe you're not following the herd, chances are you're fooling yourself, too. I'll explain this with a recent example from my life.

Over the past couple of months I've been learning as much as I can about investing. I've been spending several hours a day reading about this stuff from a wide variety of sources to discover all the pros and cons of different investment vehicles.

When I woke up today, it dawned on me that during all this time looking for an investment opportunity for myself, I didn't think for myself. I let the other guy think for me.

Most people who enter the investing world decide to invest in ETFs, bonds, or maybe in a rental property just because these are all common choices. However, behind their decision there's usually a successful investor who they respect and want to imitate. Warren Buffet said invest in ETFs, so they invest in ETFs. They respect Robert Kiyosaki, so they go into real estate. Or MJ shares his money system in Unscripted, and suddenly their investment world constricts to the few choices made by MJ.

It's understandable. You don't know much about something, so you listen to somebody who does. But the truth is, nobody's perfect and your chosen expert's choice might not be a good choice for you. They might be wrong, too.

There are real estate billionaires and there are stock market billionaires. Some people will tell you that the stock market is overvalued, yet there are still guys making a killing there. Some will tell you there's a real estate bubble, yet there's always somebody making money this way. Then there will be people saying that both the stock market and real estate are useless and they invest in something entirely else.

Granted, some investment approaches are indeed dumb and there are certain rules that you need to heed no matter what, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Switching One Dogma for Another

Now, back to my story. I didn't think for myself because all I did was switch the mainstream financial dogmas for the dogmas of several investors I respected.

@GlobalWealth said that the stock market is overvalued so I shouldn't invest there. Instead, I should follow his strategy of acquiring apartments for short-term rental apartments all over the world even though I'll probably never travel even half as often as he does (please note that none of these people specifically told me to do so; it's just a figure of speech). @SteveO prefers direct real estate ownership, so REITs are out. @MJ DeMarco says that you should be as liquid as possible, so I should avoid real estate and stick to income-producing vehicles only. Simon Black prefers investing in private companies and agriculture all over the world so I should buy farmland in Chile. Peter Schiff likes Australia, so I should buy Australian stocks and hold the Australian currency.

All of these guys are smart investors and know what they're talking about, but suddenly I'm out of options because all the advice is contradictory. And worse, I stop asking myself what I personally think and instead I seek what another guy thinks about it and do what he says to do. If, say, Peter Schiff recommends investing in CHF, I don't ask myself why - after all, Schiff says so, and he can't be wrong, right?

This way, I don't think for myself. I follow the herd, albeit a different one that the mainstream one.

How I Got Fooled That the World Is About to End

I further discovered that my main filter for the best investment opportunity was motivated by the belief that the world was about to end. I'm optimistic about the future, but somehow this belief still anchored itself in my head. This made me believe that the only worthy investment is real estate because it exists in the physical world. And you know, the world is about to collapse and soon there won't be Internet, electricity, banks, and the stock market. Stock up on real estate before they pull the plug.

The objective truth is that the world today is increasingly more digital, and if it were ever to revert, it would be the contents of your pantry that would be valuable, not the pieces of paper proving you own a certain building (which, by the way, would be as worthless as your stocks or bonds). I should have learned how to invest in canned food, not real estate.

And brainwashed by all this, I not only stressed myself out preparing for the incoming collapse, but I also forgot one important rule: you should make investments that are compatible with you, not with the other guy. Upon this realization, I understood that my thinking process wasn't my own. I would invest in the real estate industry because some guys like it and believe the world is about to end, and not because it would be the most productive investment for me.

I'm still not sure which investment vehicle to choose, but I know one thing: I'm going to think for myself and invest my resources in what I personally believe in, not what other investors believe to be the right choice.

Don't Outsource Your Thinking

If you often find yourself looking for specific advice on what to do, chances are you aren't a true free thinker, either. There's a difference between looking for information to educate yourself about something (like, say, how to prepare a proper lease contract) and outsourcing your thinking process by seeking what an expert has said and blindly following his or her advice without running it through your own filters.

It isn't limited to investing only.

You might follow a specific diet just because a blogger you respect writes about it - even if you don't really like certain aspects of the diet (and I mean the subjective aspects, not the objective science-based nutrition principles).

You might follow a specific workout because of some fitness guys proclaiming it the only effective approach - even if you hate it (I did it for a long time and refused the thought that an entirely different approach could be as effective, if not more, than the one I was following).

Or you might ask here on the forum if your business idea is viable and stop working on it simply because one or two random guys said they don't like it.

Or pursue e-commerce just because @biophase is doing well with it.

Or get into self-publishing because @ChickenHawk quit her job thanks to it.

Or avoid a B&M business because @Vigilante doesn't enjoy managing employees.

They are all smart guys, but their preferences, strengths, and backgrounds are completely different than yours. I'm not saying don't listen to them - learning from them as much as you can is obviously a pretty smart move. I just want you to be aware that blindly following their advice might not always work for you, particularly if you never ask yourself what you personally think about it. This can lead to dangerous lazy thinking habits like "if X said so, then it must be true."

If you want to be a free thinker, accept that freedom comes with risk. Not all your decisions will be right, but so won't be the decisions made by the people you follow. Beware the dangers of dogmatic thinking, regardless of whether you blindly trust the mainstream experts or those who swim against the current.
Just at the right time. Thanks!
 
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LuckyPup

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Aug 2, 2012
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To add some extra value to this thread...

Actually I had an argument last week with someone.

I said, what if everything we know about our history isn't our true history? We just take it for what it is.

What if there was no WWII WWI? Of course that was not the real question. The real question was, what if the things that has been told to you are not true (the fundamentals about life)?

It shows that you can only truly believe what is true when you see it 100% with your own eyes.

The rest might be 99,78%
Even when we see things with our own eyes, we can't necessarily trust them to be true. Eyewitness testimony in court cases is often flawed, deep fake technology will soon be perfected so that AI generated faces and voices will be indistinguishable from the real thing, and if some scientists (and Elon Musk) are to be believed, we may even be living in a Matrix-like simulation.

But it's early and I haven't had enough coffee.
28302
 

LuckyPup

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Aug 2, 2012
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I've been getting into social media for professional reasons, namely LinkedIn, and it blows me away the content people are sharing regularly.

It seems to be mostly a bunch of value vomitting quotes and "insights" on how everyone should live their lives.

Nobody is discussing anything. They just tell everyone else how to live and try to get likes. It's gross.

It's really made me realize how much influence the information entering my eyes and ears from my devices has on me. It doesn't matter if I don't agree with some things I see. There's so much info that enters my subconscious that I don't have time to filter it all.

It's got me convinced that the only way to truly think for myself is to throttle the info stream, a lot.

Even this forum with all it's great information can act as a deterrent to me thinking for myself.

I miss you all when I take breaks but as time goes on the breaks are getting longer and longer.

When was the last time we spent a whole week with our own thoughts without the influx of other peoples'? I can't remember, can you?
Great insights. It seems ironic that on platforms like LinkedIn, most of our "connections" are anything but. They're "digital acquaintances," if even that. Discourse is nearly nonexistent, and what remains has been greatly degraded. :(
 

LuckyPup

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Read Millionaire Fastlane
I've Read UNSCRIPTED
Speedway Pass
Aug 2, 2012
511
797
316
Midwest USA
I love to define myself as a free thinker. I follow my own path, make my own conclusions and trust myself.

The truth is, I've been fooling myself the entire time.

And if you believe you're not following the herd, chances are you're fooling yourself, too. I'll explain this with a recent example from my life.

Over the past couple of months I've been learning as much as I can about investing. I've been spending several hours a day reading about this stuff from a wide variety of sources to discover all the pros and cons of different investment vehicles.

When I woke up today, it dawned on me that during all this time looking for an investment opportunity for myself, I didn't think for myself. I let the other guy think for me.

Most people who enter the investing world decide to invest in ETFs, bonds, or maybe in a rental property just because these are all common choices. However, behind their decision there's usually a successful investor who they respect and want to imitate. Warren Buffet said invest in ETFs, so they invest in ETFs. They respect Robert Kiyosaki, so they go into real estate. Or MJ shares his money system in Unscripted, and suddenly their investment world constricts to the few choices made by MJ.

It's understandable. You don't know much about something, so you listen to somebody who does. But the truth is, nobody's perfect and your chosen expert's choice might not be a good choice for you. They might be wrong, too.

There are real estate billionaires and there are stock market billionaires. Some people will tell you that the stock market is overvalued, yet there are still guys making a killing there. Some will tell you there's a real estate bubble, yet there's always somebody making money this way. Then there will be people saying that both the stock market and real estate are useless and they invest in something entirely else.

Granted, some investment approaches are indeed dumb and there are certain rules that you need to heed no matter what, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Switching One Dogma for Another

Now, back to my story. I didn't think for myself because all I did was switch the mainstream financial dogmas for the dogmas of several investors I respected.

@GlobalWealth said that the stock market is overvalued so I shouldn't invest there. Instead, I should follow his strategy of acquiring apartments for short-term rental apartments all over the world even though I'll probably never travel even half as often as he does (please note that none of these people specifically told me to do so; it's just a figure of speech). @SteveO prefers direct real estate ownership, so REITs are out. @MJ DeMarco says that you should be as liquid as possible, so I should avoid real estate and stick to income-producing vehicles only. Simon Black prefers investing in private companies and agriculture all over the world so I should buy farmland in Chile. Peter Schiff likes Australia, so I should buy Australian stocks and hold the Australian currency.

All of these guys are smart investors and know what they're talking about, but suddenly I'm out of options because all the advice is contradictory. And worse, I stop asking myself what I personally think and instead I seek what another guy thinks about it and do what he says to do. If, say, Peter Schiff recommends investing in CHF, I don't ask myself why - after all, Schiff says so, and he can't be wrong, right?

This way, I don't think for myself. I follow the herd, albeit a different one that the mainstream one.

How I Got Fooled That the World Is About to End

I further discovered that my main filter for the best investment opportunity was motivated by the belief that the world was about to end. I'm optimistic about the future, but somehow this belief still anchored itself in my head. This made me believe that the only worthy investment is real estate because it exists in the physical world. And you know, the world is about to collapse and soon there won't be Internet, electricity, banks, and the stock market. Stock up on real estate before they pull the plug.

The objective truth is that the world today is increasingly more digital, and if it were ever to revert, it would be the contents of your pantry that would be valuable, not the pieces of paper proving you own a certain building (which, by the way, would be as worthless as your stocks or bonds). I should have learned how to invest in canned food, not real estate.

And brainwashed by all this, I not only stressed myself out preparing for the incoming collapse, but I also forgot one important rule: you should make investments that are compatible with you, not with the other guy. Upon this realization, I understood that my thinking process wasn't my own. I would invest in the real estate industry because some guys like it and believe the world is about to end, and not because it would be the most productive investment for me.

I'm still not sure which investment vehicle to choose, but I know one thing: I'm going to think for myself and invest my resources in what I personally believe in, not what other investors believe to be the right choice.

Don't Outsource Your Thinking

If you often find yourself looking for specific advice on what to do, chances are you aren't a true free thinker, either. There's a difference between looking for information to educate yourself about something (like, say, how to prepare a proper lease contract) and outsourcing your thinking process by seeking what an expert has said and blindly following his or her advice without running it through your own filters.

It isn't limited to investing only.

You might follow a specific diet just because a blogger you respect writes about it - even if you don't really like certain aspects of the diet (and I mean the subjective aspects, not the objective science-based nutrition principles).

You might follow a specific workout because of some fitness guys proclaiming it the only effective approach - even if you hate it (I did it for a long time and refused the thought that an entirely different approach could be as effective, if not more, than the one I was following).

Or you might ask here on the forum if your business idea is viable and stop working on it simply because one or two random guys said they don't like it.

Or pursue e-commerce just because @biophase is doing well with it.

Or get into self-publishing because @ChickenHawk quit her job thanks to it.

Or avoid a B&M business because @Vigilante doesn't enjoy managing employees.

They are all smart guys, but their preferences, strengths, and backgrounds are completely different than yours. I'm not saying don't listen to them - learning from them as much as you can is obviously a pretty smart move. I just want you to be aware that blindly following their advice might not always work for you, particularly if you never ask yourself what you personally think about it. This can lead to dangerous lazy thinking habits like "if X said so, then it must be true."

If you want to be a free thinker, accept that freedom comes with risk. Not all your decisions will be right, but so won't be the decisions made by the people you follow. Beware the dangers of dogmatic thinking, regardless of whether you blindly trust the mainstream experts or those who swim against the current.
After reading through this thread, the concept of "locus of control" comes to mind. Locus of control can be loosely defined as the compass/belief that guides one's behavior. I would venture that every successful fastlaner has a strong internal locus of control, while those that seek to be in the fastlane, yet remain in the slow lane or the sidewalk have external loci of control. Fastlaners "know thyselves" and therefore seek business that align with their personalities, strengths, etc. Slowlaners and sidewalkers are the ones seeking the answer outside themselves, and end up chasing money.

"This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man." -- Polonius
 

Andy Daniels

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but I also forgot one important rule: you should make investments that are compatible with you, not with the other guy.
Dude, that's brilliant. I needed to hear that today!
 

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FierceRacoon

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Here is one experience of mine.

I used to do a lot of yoga and meditation and chanting mantras, you get the idea. It bothered me a lot that there was this conflict between the "science" and the idea that e.g. chanting a mantra would bring me health or abundance or how pranayama would allow me to float above the ground.

Then at some point I was diligently following a particularly powerful Chinese meditation based on Lao Tzu's poetry. It involved recitation in Chinese, sometimes as much as 4 times a day, 30 minutes each. Allegedly it had a track record of healing people from disease when all else fails; I easily believe this to be the case.

However, then I contracted a case of... laryngitis. While the meditation was supposed to be healing, and I had had experience of its healing properties, recitation for even half an hour didn't seem to make sense when I was supposed to rest my voice. My Chinese friend reassured me to trust the process, though.

Trust I did. As my voice was trying to recover, I would strike it over and over and over with rounds of this meditation. As you may imagine, it extended my recovery for another couple of weeks; but more importantly, I had to conclude from empirical evidence that, prima facie, it was not working. It was literally better to just rest than to keep this recitation, no matter how much I wanted to believe the Eastern wisdom and how much I wanted to disregard the status quo. That experience impressed me deeply that the truth can be tested for myself and — that lots of seemingly knowledgeable people walk around preaching a body of knowledge that can be partially or fully wrong.
 

Roz

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Bump to an excellent thread!

First Principle Thinking is a great tool to have in the box.
 
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Bump to an excellent thread!

First Principle Thinking is a great tool to have in the box.
Thanks for the bump!
 
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