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How did MJ pay rent while building his business?

Sav0310

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I get that you’re supposed to value your time over money, but realistically, how did he pay rent while building his business? I definitely feel like I missed something in the book. It’s the “quit your job” part that gets me, I will literally die if I do that.
 
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I get that you’re supposed to value your time over money, but realistically, how did he pay rent while building his business? I definitely feel like I missed something in the book. It’s the “quit your job” part that gets me, I will literally die if I do that.

A held a plethora of shitty jobs. I always had a job.
 

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I get that you’re supposed to value your time over money, but realistically, how did he pay rent while building his business? I definitely feel like I missed something in the book. It’s the “quit your job” part that gets me, I will literally die if I do that.
It feels weird to know details about someone's life that I've never met, but oh well.

After moving to AZ, he was also doing web design stuff, even expressing in The Great Rat-Race Escape (IIRC) how he was surprised by the fact people were still killing it via web design, even decades later.
 
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It's easier now than ever to do what @MJ DeMarco did because there are so many gigs and jobs with flexible hours. If your current job isn't allowing you to pursue your business, there are plenty of other gigs and jobs out there that you can do.

A full time job shouldn't take up all of your waking hours every day of the week. There should always be some time to work on your business. The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss can help you if you're looking for a book that can explain time management in more detail.
 

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It's easier now than ever to do what @MJ DeMarco did because there are so many gigs and jobs with flexible hours. If your current job isn't allowing you to pursue your business, there are plenty of other gigs and jobs out there that you can do.

A full time job shouldn't take up all of your waking hours every day of the week. There should always be some time to work on your business. The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss can help you if you're looking for a book that can explain time management in more detail.

+1.

Here's a guy who got started like I did, in web design. With today's tools, resources, and automation, instead of making $1,300 a week like I did, he makes $1.3M a year. Technology is freaking amazing, and even more amazing, is a lot of his "tools" are free.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXKzST0FE-A
 
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+1.

Here's a guy who got started like I did, in web design. With today's tools, resources, and automation, instead of making $1,300 a week like I did, he makes $1.3M a year. Technology is freaking amazing, and even more amazing, is a lot of his "tools" are free.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXKzST0FE-A

This guy runs things at like 99% profit margins also.

No staff, no overheads.

The internet has given so much leverage to what is possible with just a few online skills.
 

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My business is fairly new to producing income (first 12-month contract started in January), but much of last year I was preparing and setting things up to get rolling and then finding that first client. Next up is growth. I still have my day job, and most of last year I had a day job plus 1-2 p/t jobs, but still touched the business every day.

The "Power List" is what I heard about, implemented, and what I attribute my current status to. Basically, having 3-5 things a day (a "touch") for my highest priorities, and improving my finances and starting the business was at the top of that list. Some days I'd spend a few hours on things, other days it was just 5 minutes, but every day, I "touched" the business.

I'm still doing my power list every day, in addition to taking care of my client, and I still have my day job. Use the list to help keep me focused and my mind on building and growing the business. It keeps my big goals at the front of my mind which helps align my subconcious thoughts and actions with those bigger goals and what I envision my life looking like 10 years from now (and that is nothing what it looks like right now).

I think you'll find many - MANY - successful people had a job for a while when they started their businesses...
 
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I get that you’re supposed to value your time over money, but realistically, how did he pay rent while building his business? I definitely feel like I missed something in the book. It’s the “quit your job” part that gets me, I will literally die if I do that.
why quit before you can?

sounds like you are trying to make an excuse for not starting. start. now.
 

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+1.

Here's a guy who got started like I did, in web design. With today's tools, resources, and automation, instead of making $1,300 a week like I did, he makes $1.3M a year. Technology is freaking amazing, and even more amazing, is a lot of his "tools" are free.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXKzST0FE-A
Personally I’m not buying this guy’s story. Like almost all stories it’s controlled by the storyteller. Do we know the truth about Putin? No, we just know what he wants us to know. Same about Trump, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and so on.

Here’s some evidence:
• In 2020 by his own admission the business was bringing in $6,000-$8,000/mo (I run an unlimited design service...by myself.). His prices at that time were between $467 and $849/mo (DesignJoy - Unlimited Design & Revisions)
• Here’s what recent customers say: View: https://twitter.com/adamdotdev/status/1518352151352860678?lang=en

• He rebranded from hue.co to designjoy.co in 2020, ask yourself why?
• Now his prices are 5-10x higher. For literarily the same work as 3 years ago.
• And it looks like a ”storefront” to sell his course: Productize Yourself

Overall it’s a simple matter. Nobody but the storyteller controls what goes into the story.

I can tell you that I was the smartest kid in my school and had the highest overall grades (which btw, is true).

How do you know that? Likelihood you’ll just believe me. Even if you start digging, it’s unlikely you’ll find any evidence to the contrary. Most people who had been involved would not remember the details even if you somehow got ahold of them AND got them to agree to talk.

In fact, even if I were to share report cards and such, does the school even have old records to prove them right or wrong? Big question. And even if they do, will anyone actually bother to search for them?

Point is the storyteller controls the story. Therefore you only hear what they want you to hear. And the interest of those opposing the storyteller in his story is miniuscule compared with the storyteller’s own interest in his own story. Therefore it’s mathematically a rigged game that doesn’t favor the truth.
 

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+1.

Here's a guy who got started like I did, in web design. With today's tools, resources, and automation, instead of making $1,300 a week like I did, he makes $1.3M a year. Technology is freaking amazing, and even more amazing, is a lot of his "tools" are free.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXKzST0FE-A
*Opens Windows, stands on the balcony, and just free falls* Just kidding, just a joke. That's insane! His business model is simple, efficient, no contracts, not-time bound, little to no client facing. Good work can then produce other clients via by word of mouth. That's amazing, I would actually believe his story.

You could even create SOP's for repeated processes to help lower the amount of time to fulfill requests. You can also knowledge transfer what you know to another person to fulfill the service, also removing you completely from fulfillment.
 
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+1.

Here's a guy who got started like I did, in web design. With today's tools, resources, and automation, instead of making $1,300 a week like I did, he makes $1.3M a year. Technology is freaking amazing, and even more amazing, is a lot of his "tools" are free.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXKzST0FE-A



That's what I love about entrepreneurship - there are so many ways to make it. Believe this guy or not (@Black_Dragon43 who knows). But the tools exist to make a great living.

A little drifting off-topic for this thread... I believe is the key value this forum provides. No matter who you are, if you are already here - you have an unfair advantage over 99% of the general population. You can and should do better.

I hesitated responding to this because @Kak and I were vocal that freelance is not the only way to success, there are other equally good, better and worse alternatives.

Yet there is something far bigger at play here. I watched the video of this guy and noticed a parallel - his schedule. I know for a fact that @Kak spends a lot of time with his family. I do too! My mornings are with family and I go to my office for a few hours or a full day, it all depends - then it's time with family at home again. If I want to go ride my bike, I sometimes do it in the morning, other times I leave office and do it early afternoon. Today I spent 3 hours on "lunch meeting". We just enjoyed the most amazing meal for hours and talked about stuff (from business to the 992 911 Porsches that two of my guests just bought).

Money (as highlighted in the video) is important, but that time freedom is something far more valuable (after you've covered your life needs). That is why I love entrepreneurship - it is a rich way to live life.

As a bonus, seeing your own business function (or not) without you is a test. Business that works well without you is easier to sell and has a better multiple.
 

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+1.

Here's a guy who got started like I did, in web design. With today's tools, resources, and automation, instead of making $1,300 a week like I did, he makes $1.3M a year. Technology is freaking amazing, and even more amazing, is a lot of his "tools" are free.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXKzST0FE-A
I don't think that's a productised service. It seemed more like consulting for a flat monthly fee rather than an hourly fee. It does show how quickly people can launch though, and how much a solo skilled person can earn doing effectively what others do in a job.

EDIT: Maybe I don't understand what a productised service is? I thought it would be services that are copy and paste / off the shelf, and therefore easier to optimise, automate, or delegate?
 

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Personally I’m not buying this guy’s story. Like almost all stories it’s controlled by the storyteller. Do we know the truth about Putin? No, we just know what he wants us to know. Same about Trump, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and so on.

Here’s some evidence:
• In 2020 by his own admission the business was bringing in $6,000-$8,000/mo (I run an unlimited design service...by myself.). His prices at that time were between $467 and $849/mo (DesignJoy - Unlimited Design & Revisions)
• Here’s what recent customers say: View: https://twitter.com/adamdotdev/status/1518352151352860678?lang=en

• He rebranded from hue.co to designjoy.co in 2020, ask yourself why?
• Now his prices are 5-10x higher. For literarily the same work as 3 years ago.
• And it looks like a ”storefront” to sell his course: Productize Yourself

Overall it’s a simple matter. Nobody but the storyteller controls what goes into the story.

I can tell you that I was the smartest kid in my school and had the highest overall grades (which btw, is true).

How do you know that? Likelihood you’ll just believe me. Even if you start digging, it’s unlikely you’ll find any evidence to the contrary. Most people who had been involved would not remember the details even if you somehow got ahold of them AND got them to agree to talk.

In fact, even if I were to share report cards and such, does the school even have old records to prove them right or wrong? Big question. And even if they do, will anyone actually bother to search for them?

Point is the storyteller controls the story. Therefore you only hear what they want you to hear. And the interest of those opposing the storyteller in his story is miniuscule compared with the storyteller’s own interest in his own story. Therefore it’s mathematically a rigged game that doesn’t favor the truth.
What, you've never had an unhappy customer?

1685071372441.png
 
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Money (as highlighted in the video) is important, but that time freedom is something far more valuable (after you've covered your life needs). That is why I love entrepreneurship - it is a rich way to live life.

Ya, this guy gets a lot of heat on Twitter about this. And fair enough, he probably has zero time off.
It actually use to be way worse, he had double the clients paying him half the money.

I definitely wouldn't use him as an example as a smart approach for most people.
He is more like the David Goggins of running a design business ha.

But... if he did just a few changes here, it would be nicely Fastlane.
- Hire a few designers
- He moves towards sales / management
- Keep building up his personal brand

A much better example of this type of business set up is someone like @BigRomeDawg who is working on the client side of things and then had his team do the editing and fulfilment.
 

Andy Black

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A much better example of this type of business set up is someone like @BigRomeDawg who is working on the client side of things and then had his team do the editing and fulfilment.
There's a school of thinking that it's better to sell a service you don't have the skills to fulfil. Then you're working on the business not in the business.
 

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There's a school of thinking that it's better to sell a service you don't have the skills to fulfil. Then you're working on the business not in the business.

Maybe you can add more details on this, I don't 100% follow.

Brett has done great (the guy in the video) - and it would be really easy to now pivot and have a 2-5m a year design business. But he has said several times on Twitter he doesn't care and loves running it solo.

So, I think he did super well starting out this way. And to get to 1.3m (nearly al profita) solo is amazing.
But... probably not the way most of us here would ever do this.

(Not saying you aren't saying the same thing Andy, just curious your take on it)
 
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Maybe you can add more details on this, I don't 100% follow.

Brett has done great (the guy in the video) - and it would be really easy to now pivot and have a 2-5m a year design business. But he has said several times on Twitter he doesn't care and loves running it solo.

So, I think he did super well starting out this way. And to get to 1.3m (nearly al profita) solo is amazing.
But... probably not the way most of us here would ever do this.

(Not saying you aren't saying the same thing Andy, just curious your take on it)
I agree. The guy in the video has done amazing. If I understand correctly, he's up to 20 clients paying $5k/mth that he's able to fulfil on his own in less than the average 9-5 working day. That's $100k/mth for just his time and skill. All the better if he loves running it solo.

I heard a guest on a podcast say it's sometimes better providing a service you personally don't have the skills to fulfil. That way you start out of the gate by getting clients and getting people to delegate the work to. I nodded at that because it can be hard to extract yourself from the coal-face if you're world-class at the technical skill.

But that's NOT what I've done, and not what I personally recommend to friends. I think it's better for people getting started in business to get skills and experience at the coal-face, then figure out how to sell themselves, THEN figure out how to scale. For someone who's figured out how to scale then I think they could sell and scale services they've never done the work for.


The guy in the video is doing a high-end version of Design Pickle, where people signup to a monthly subscription to a service. Instead of charging hourly businesses signup to a flat monthly fee. They get unlimited revisions but they're delivered a few days apart.

Some months a business may not avail of the service, but they've got the designer there as an option so they don't have to go looking for someone if the need comes up. Some months they may have a constant stream of work.

If that's the definition of a productised service then I may have misunderstood it for the last few years. I thought it meant us business owners had productised the service so it was paint-by-numbers and specialised tools and templates had been created to deliver the service as fast as possible.

I was expecting the video to be about how he'd created a graphic design marketplace or something, where people purchased ready made graphics, or where they input some requirements and someone pulled a few levers, added some paint, and out popped a design.

I was hoping there'd be some passive recurring revenue from the sales, like he'd licensed some of the output somehow and was getting paid for work he'd done previously.

I'd have loved it if he'd started as a freelancer (a gun-for-hire) and gradually grew his *passive* MRR each month till it hit 6 figures per month. (Note: a freelancer was a mercenary knight who's lance was for hire. They were people employed for their skill at doing the work. IMO this can be solo plumbers and window washers as well as online copywriters.)

Rather than 1x $5k/mth hands-on "consulting" client where we get paid to work each month, I'd rather have 10x $500/mth hands-off clients where we've done the work in the first month and it's just maintenance thereafter.



What I thought funny about the video is how they've made it the smoothest transition from where an employee might be to where they aspire to be.

"You don't need to do any marketing, and you don't need to spend a lot of time on a fancy website. You don't need any fancy routines or habits... in fact, this guy's only habit is playing video games with his brother and uncle. Play with your kids early in the day, go into your bat-cave and do that techie stuff you love and are currently employed to do, then spend time with your family again and go drive your Porsche around."

It certainly seems the video is selling his lifestyle to folks who currently have a technical skill and hate being employed.



What most of us in the forum probably wonder is:

Does he really enjoy being on call for all 20 clients all of the time, or would he prefer to cherry pick the most interesting work for the top 3 most interesting clients?

Could he then have other clients served by other senior designers and spend a bit of time building a business that runs without him?

This seems a logical next step for him and maybe one he'll get to if he tires of doing the coal-face work so many hours a day, or if he wants a new challenge, or if he contemplates exiting the business for a nice sum.


Personally, I prefer to scale first by choosing a different/better business model (one where you keep getting paid for work done months and years earlier). THEN scale via people, processes, and/or technology.
 

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How did you find time for working on your side business while you had a full time jobs? Were you able to work on it every day?
There are 168 hours in a week. Assume you get 8 hours of sleep per night and you’re left with 112 hours that week. Also I’ll assume you work 40 hours a week, and have a commute of an hour total, so you have 65 hours now. Minus 2 hours a day for cooking, cleaning, and taking care of your self, 51 hours left in the week. Even if you wanted to F*ck off and watch Netflix, or scroll social media for 2 hours per day, that would still leave you with 37 free hours, basically and entire workweek, left over.

The problem isn’t time for most people, it’s wasting it on things that don’t move you forward, like social media, binge drinking and other distractions. I used to complain about not having enough time, until I realized I only worked 30 hours a week with no kids and a 15 min commute. I had an extra 50-60 hour “hidden” work week in my schedule, yet I complained to my self about not having time. Breaking down my schedule helped me realize how much time I actually have.
 

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I agree. The guy in the video has done amazing. If I understand correctly, he's up to 20 clients paying $5k/mth that he's able to fulfil on his own in less than the average 9-5 working day. That's $100k/mth for just his time and skill. All the better if he loves running it solo.
@Black_Dragon43 Not to be overly skeptical, but the math here is hard to accept.

The premise is twenty clients willing to spend $5,000 flat rate to get five hours of design work delivered in a 48 hour window. That's based on "I work most days from 12 - 5pm". Conveniently, that works out to $1,000 / hour for design work without any live interaction with clients.

Since he mentions lead generation, it sounds like the clients are ever changing with different design requirements, personality quirks, all of that i.e. "client management". I'd expect that most new clients with a spanking new $5K unlimited use package would arrive with a pile of design work that FAR exceeds five hours of deliverable time.

Is this story believable in the world of 99Designs, Fiverr, Upwork and about a million other places to hire designers?
 
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Personally I’m not buying this guy’s story. Like almost all stories it’s controlled by the storyteller. Do we know the truth about Putin? No, we just know what he wants us to know. Same about Trump, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and so on.

Here’s some evidence:
• In 2020 by his own admission the business was bringing in $6,000-$8,000/mo (I run an unlimited design service...by myself.). His prices at that time were between $467 and $849/mo (DesignJoy - Unlimited Design & Revisions)
• Here’s what recent customers say: View: https://twitter.com/adamdotdev/status/1518352151352860678?lang=en

• He rebranded from hue.co to designjoy.co in 2020, ask yourself why?
• Now his prices are 5-10x higher. For literarily the same work as 3 years ago.
• And it looks like a ”storefront” to sell his course: Productize Yourself

Overall it’s a simple matter. Nobody but the storyteller controls what goes into the story.

I can tell you that I was the smartest kid in my school and had the highest overall grades (which btw, is true).

How do you know that? Likelihood you’ll just believe me. Even if you start digging, it’s unlikely you’ll find any evidence to the contrary. Most people who had been involved would not remember the details even if you somehow got ahold of them AND got them to agree to talk.

In fact, even if I were to share report cards and such, does the school even have old records to prove them right or wrong? Big question. And even if they do, will anyone actually bother to search for them?

Point is the storyteller controls the story. Therefore you only hear what they want you to hear. And the interest of those opposing the storyteller in his story is miniuscule compared with the storyteller’s own interest in his own story. Therefore it’s mathematically a rigged game that doesn’t favor the truth.

You likely are more correct, than more wrong. I'm sure there's a lot we don't know.

However I didn't say he was running a productocracy and had customers raving.

My point was more about what was possible today with a simple skill, and how there are so many tools available to us that can help us get wherever we want to go. It wasn't like this when I was trying to get started.
 

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You likely are more correct, than more wrong. I'm sure there's a lot we don't know.

However I didn't say he was running a productocracy and had customers raving.

My point was more about what was possible today with a simple skill, and how there are so many tools available to us that can help us get wherever we want to go. It wasn't like this when I was trying to get started.
For sure, it wasn’t meant as criticism of you or your perspective regarding the opportunities available today (I actually agree — we have more opportunities than ever before. I wish I had the things I do today even 10 years ago). My apologies if it came off differently MJ. My intention was simply to comment on the guy himself.

From the looks of it, it seems that he realized that running a service as a one-man band isn’t that great, because you have to take care of both sales and fulfilment. Hence why he shifted over to selling a course — productize yourself. Now there is 0 fulfilment for that, and all his time can be spent marketing and selling.

I’m running into the same issue with my business atm. I’ve got too many sales calls, and I feel they are not necessary. People can learn and buy straight from the website, and I can cut the sales calls down to 1x 15min call rather than 2 calls, worth 1 hour combined. So I can either choose to add salespeople now and burn into my margin… OR eliminate sales calls/make them shorter, less common.

There’s always lessons to learn from different perspectives.
 

Andy Black

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Could he then have other clients served by other senior designers and spend a bit of time building a business that runs without him?

This seems a logical next step for him and maybe one he'll get to if he tires of doing the coal-face work so many hours a day, or if he wants a new challenge, or if he contemplates exiting the business for a nice sum.

seems that he realized that running a service as a one-man band isn’t that great, because you have to take care of both sales and fulfilment. Hence why he shifted over to selling a course
It's funny isn't it. You'd think the logical next step would have been to figure out how to serve the same clients better, faster, and/or more of them. But now he seems to be selling a course. There's nothing wrong with selling courses, but that's a completely different avatar and offer now.

Which is more logical way to scale?

Do it, then teach people how to do it.

Do it, then do more of it.
 
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biophase

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Personally I’m not buying this guy’s story. Like almost all stories it’s controlled by the storyteller. Do we know the truth about Putin? No, we just know what he wants us to know. Same about Trump, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and so on.

Here’s some evidence:
• In 2020 by his own admission the business was bringing in $6,000-$8,000/mo (I run an unlimited design service...by myself.). His prices at that time were between $467 and $849/mo (DesignJoy - Unlimited Design & Revisions)
• Here’s what recent customers say: View: https://twitter.com/adamdotdev/status/1518352151352860678?lang=en

• He rebranded from hue.co to designjoy.co in 2020, ask yourself why?
• Now his prices are 5-10x higher. For literarily the same work as 3 years ago.
• And it looks like a ”storefront” to sell his course: Productize Yourself

Overall it’s a simple matter. Nobody but the storyteller controls what goes into the story.

I can tell you that I was the smartest kid in my school and had the highest overall grades (which btw, is true).

How do you know that? Likelihood you’ll just believe me. Even if you start digging, it’s unlikely you’ll find any evidence to the contrary. Most people who had been involved would not remember the details even if you somehow got ahold of them AND got them to agree to talk.

In fact, even if I were to share report cards and such, does the school even have old records to prove them right or wrong? Big question. And even if they do, will anyone actually bother to search for them?

Point is the storyteller controls the story. Therefore you only hear what they want you to hear. And the interest of those opposing the storyteller in his story is miniuscule compared with the storyteller’s own interest in his own story. Therefore it’s mathematically a rigged game that doesn’t favor the truth.
What set an alarm off for me was that he said that after he quit his job, his revenue doubled. But he also said he quit his job when he was making $80k a month. Soooo, he should be making $160k a month now, which is $1.9M, so why does it say he makes $1.3M?

I do find it hard to believe that he works 5 hours a day and can service that high end paying clients.
 

Two Dog

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For sure, it wasn’t meant as criticism of you or your perspective regarding the opportunities available today (I actually agree — we have more opportunities than ever before. I wish I had the things I do today even 10 years ago). My apologies if it came off differently MJ. My intention was simply to comment on the guy himself.
FWIW, it didn't come across that way to me. Social media isn't reality, but there's definitely a strong vibe of "If you don't agree with everything I just said wholeheartedly, you're a fill-in-the-blank and will hopefully rot in hell much sooner than later." Not too much room for judgment aka criticism aka feedback which is really the only way to improve.

One of the things I truly enjoy at TFF (thanks!!! @MJ DeMarco) is the simple fact that people ask and receive help - some of it pretty blunt at times - without having a meltdown after every post.

When you read through the full Twitter thread (how did you post it?!?), it's pretty clear what's going on. The author bought into the unlimited design service at $2,500 / month and basically ends up calling it fraudulent. Poor turnaround, half assed work, ghosted for weeks at a time, senior designer (who clearly isn't Brett) and so on. Shockingly, someone lied on the internet to promote their business. Someone else pimped the story in order to promote their own business. Not exactly news.

Mostly, I'm thinking about stories like this in the context of "How do I teach my kids what's believable?" It's easy to picture someone putting in countless hours to copy a business model that's complete fiction instead of doing something productive. The hard part here is that what he offers (although doesn't deliver) *is* a pretty killer offer from a marketing perspective. You just have to balance the deliverables vs. pricing.

WP Curve offered an unlimited WordPress maintenance package for $99 / month that got a phenomenal response.
 

<john>

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It's funny isn't it. You'd think the logical next step would have been to figure out how to serve the same clients better, faster, and/or more of them. But now he seems to be selling a course. There's nothing wrong with selling courses, but that's a completely different avatar and offer now.

Which is more logical way to scale?

Do it, then teach people how to do it.

Do it, then do more of it.
I agree, every time I see somebody pushing a course I automatically get skeptical of their business model.

I think the best business models are the ones you have never heard of; the ones people keep secret and keep milking. I'm not saying a course cannot be helpful. It's just that offering a course is all too often a signal of a business model that is too popular already and serving a saturated marketplace.
 
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Andy Black

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I agree, every time I see somebody pushing a course I automatically get skeptical of their business model.

I think the best business models are the ones you have never heard of; the ones people keep secret and keep milking. I'm not saying a course cannot be helpful. It's just that offering a course is all too often a signal of a business model that is too popular already and serving a saturated marketplace.
I don't think there being courses means it's oversaturated. It's just that providing the service for DFY clients is a different avatar from selling courses to DIY folks.
 

<john>

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I don't think there being courses means it's oversaturated. It's just that providing the service for DFY clients is a different avatar from selling courses to DIY folks.
I think a cool idea would be to implement some kind of a "guru index" or "course index"...kind of like that big mac index I used to read about a decade or two ago. The guru index could track the number of gurus and courses and their costs in a particular industry segment or for a business model (sorry just thinking out loud). If nothing more, this guru index could serve as a method for avoiding certain businesses and industries. Or in the least it would be entertaining to see how some areas of business stack up against others.

I'm still largely in the camp of avoiding any areas that have massive guru course selling (unless I'm profiting lol ;) ). I think it's a red flag of sorts.
 

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