GO TO COLLEGE... A little Rant.

[Skys]

Fastlane is the road to wealth. To retire early, as they say. Fastlane can make you rich quick, not easy. A college degree will cost you money, + it will take you 4 years of your life. So, with those facts, you could easily spend between 40k and 80k on a college degree, pass at the age of 25, and have the 80k (max) paid back in full before the age of 35! (depending how quick your fastlane business will grow)

Personally. I would rather be a waiter on the weekends to hold my head up and work on a business during the week than ever working a 9-5 slowlane salaried job that my degree can get me.

Yeah, what works for you works for you. Me, personally, I see no harm in working hard in a job, maybe even longer then 5.. Make good money that I can then invest in my own business and provide my family. My nephew earns 7k a month. That really isn't bad at all. If somebody can't life comfortable with that kind of money, well, you have very high standards.

Maybe the one thing that is most important for me that the fastlane book learned me, is that you should not spend 120 when you have 100. Also, the fastlane is not a get rich tomorrow plan. If college is part of your plan, go for it.

And maybe, just maybe, somebody is just not build to be an entrepreneur, but can be one hell of a high paid slowlaner. If you then really love what you do, but it's not passive income, I would say screw the passive income and go for it. I am pretty sure Anthony Robbins loves what he does, he is F*cking rich but still works hard at seminars, coaching etc (obv. he also makes lots of passive income with his books etc, but i am just pointing out you can be very high paid as a 'slowlaner'.) As a slowlaner though, you better LOVE what you do, since you might be spending the rest of your life doing just that.

 

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[The-J]

To tell a target audience of 18-22 that college is a waste of time, in a phase of their life so easily influenced, is pretty dangerous.

Most kids don't care about the money they save by not attending. Most kids just do not like school and will get out of it if they ever have the chance. They don't have any drive or anything: they just don't want to go to school anymore.

Take a high school kid with a job: he goes to school 7 hours a day, then works at the local Shit Burger (or wherever). He saves up money for a few months then buys a car. With his job money, he's able to pay for gas, insurance, food, and road trips/partying/whatever with friends. He's on top of the world, except one thing: he still has to go to school 7 hours a day. If he didn't have to waste time at school, he could work and party, and live his life that way.

That's the mentality of today's kids... that is, the ones that could get a job.

 

[Kuz]

My degree wasn't a challenge at all. I skipped most of my lectures, never turned up to class, did my coursework last minute and still scored the second highest grade (with honours) you can get for UK degree.

I was sickened by the academic process, and, to be honest, most of my contemporaries were too.

That's if you do a stupid "arts" degrees.. . people who do proper degrees like medicine, or engineering or architecture etc.. yeah, that's hard work and worth while

But F*cking "philosophy" "english literature" "politics" "soccial studies", "history" bla bla bla. Absolute F*cking joke.

 

[octoberskyy]

I have to agree with this piece of advice.

There is nothing wrong with doing your business part time while in school. If the business doesn't do well, and you decide that you do not want to go the entrepreneur route, you have your degree to fall back on to find a job.

It is true you don't need a degree to get a job, but many white collar jobs receive hundreds of applications and one way they tend to filter out candidates is degree vs. non degree. Having a degree can only help you, while not having one can count against you.

College does not have to be expensive. Do your research -- there are many top tier schools that won't break the bank. Tuition at Georgia Tech (the school I went to) is 8K/year. Average salary is around 55-65K, and many students are offered multiple job offers by the time they graduate. Assuming you do some part time work or internship work while at school, your amount of debt is a fraction of what you would owe compared to schools with 40K/year tuitions.

So why school?

There are so many benefits, besides the partying and the degree you're handed when you finish.

The level of education is much higher than high school (much more difficult). So you learn how to tackle difficult projects, homeworks, etc. It not only tests your endurance, but also forces you to work smarter as well. Which is always a good skill to have in the entrepreneurship world.

Depending on the college you go to, and what you make of it, it's a wealth of resources. Do you take the easiest classes just to boost your GPA? Or do you take classes that are harder, but can potentially help you with your future venture? You can take a coding class to figure out how to build that app you are working on. You can take marketing classes to learn ways on how to market the business, and discuss these ideas with your professor. There's nothing better than learning something in class and being able to apply it to your business to see how things work first hand. You can enroll in co-op programs where you go to school one semester, and work for one semester (paid), to get a feel for different industries and jobs without having to commit as a full time employee. Or you can do a one semester internship just to get your feet wet in the working world without committing several semesters to the working world. You can study abroad one semester in a country overseas -- somewhere in Europe or Asia, while still earning credit for your degree. There are several clubs you can join to learn more about investing, or creating start ups, etc, etc and talk with like minded students on their own ventures.

Yes, you can work dead end jobs to pay the bills until your business takes off, but why not just work a white collar job with the same # of hours but double/triple the pay?

BTW -- this is more reference to engineering/management degrees as GT is known for engineering. I can't say the same regarding other liberal arts degrees...

Bottom line: NO -- you do not HAVE to go to college. But if you are accepted and do not have anything else lined up and are working on a business or thinking about creating your own business, it is not a bad route to take until your business takes off.

 

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[Vigilante]

To tell a target audience of 18-22 that college is a waste of time, in a phase of their life so easily influenced, is pretty dangerous.

I am sure a lot of entrepreneurs finished their college, worked hard and made money slowlane and then went fastlane. The same as a lot of entrepreneurs did it without going to college. It's not a key element to be succesful, going to college. Making money is a key element to be able to have a comfortable life.

50% of US High School students never go to college.

and

50% of college students that incur tuition and fees never graduate.

To me, making the assumption that kids should go to college is MORE dangerous, and potentially more damaging to them than giving them the truth and the facts.

The facts are that college is NOT the place for 75% of the population.

 

[Vigilante]

By the way, this week I will drop 2 of my kids off at their respective colleges.

My oldest will be a clinical psychologist. Impossible to do without an education.

My son will be an automotive engineer. Also requires an engineering degree.

So... there are some paths that require a formalized education. If that is your destiny, than you have to do what you have to do to make it happen.

But...

college is not for everyone.

 

[Vigilante]

Bottom line: NO -- you do not HAVE to go to college. But if you are accepted and do not have anything else lined up and are working on a business or thinking about creating your own business, it is not a bad route to take until your business takes off.

I disagree completely. Going to college for the sake of going to college because you can't think of anything better to do is a waste of money. This is where a LOT of the college dropout statistic comes from. Go to college because you want something that ONLY college can provide. College is too expensive with too many long term consequences (pro and con) to just go because you need or want to burn some time. The average college student exits with in excess of $60k in debts, and half exit with no degree. We're doing a significant disservice to these kids by not telling them the truth about the probability of their success in college, and what a $60k loan at 6% annual interest means to them when they end up flipping burgers with loans due when they graduate.

 

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[danoodle]

I will add one thing to this thread. IF you do decide to go to college you absolutely must study abroad (or, in my case, many broads...)! Like Jack said, most people are not destined for greatness and it honestly may be your only chance to go overseas and experience another culture and meet amazing people and have an experience you can treasure for the rest of your life.

I personally went to college and graduated with a degree that is "worthless" to me, music. It is worthless since I don't plan on teaching or performing. I ended up with around 26k in debt. That said, it was an amazing experience overall for me. I met my wife there. I got to see a lot of Europe. I partied...a LOT. So many wonderful memories...college was definitely worth it to me despite my "worthless" degree and getting into debt. Going back there just to grab a drink with friends always feels like home. College is what you make of it, just like any experience.

I would also add, going to college is very situational and should be looked at on a case by case basis. There is no "yes, you should go" or "no, you should not go" universal answer. The only thing I know for sure is I feel damn old now since instead of looking forward to moving in in the fall, I now look forward to the college kids moving in to one of my rentals so I can get paid!

 

[lookingahead]

Finally somebody got fed up with all those posts. I'm in college and I'm not in debt, I love it. I have made many friends, experienced things I never thought I would. Witnessed things I never thought I'd see, I love it. All while doing this I'm working on a business. I wouldn't drop out of school for my business or quit my job as of yet. But if the time came where I could and be successful, then I would do it. I'm in school for everything it comes with and yes for the fall back plan if I don't make it to the fastlane.

 

[octoberskyy]

I disagree completely. Going to college for the sake of going to college because you can't think of anything better to do is a waste of money. This is where a LOT of the college dropout statistic comes from. Go to college because you want something that ONLY college can provide. College is too expensive with too many long term consequences (pro and con) to just go because you need or want to burn some time. The average college student exits with in excess of $60k in debts, and half exit with no degree. We're doing a significant disservice to these kids by not telling them the truth about the probability of their success in college, and what a $60k loan at 6% annual interest means to them when they end up flipping burgers with loans due when they graduate.

I don't think a lot of high school kids know what they want to do when they graduate. Just because you don't know what you want to do doesn't necessarily mean college is a bad thing. I still don't know what I want to do, but I'm thankful that I graduated with a good paying job so that I can explore starting my own thing with the $$ I was able to save up with my current job. If you're thinking about going to school for 40k/year in tuition, then yeah, you definitely don't want to go to that school if you don't know what you're doing there. But for the case of any Georgia residents (where college tuition is free as long as you have a 3.0 GPA or higher), I don't think it's necessarily a thing you should put off until you're certain what it is you want to do.

 

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[Skys]

50% of US High School students never go to college.

and

50% of college students that incur tuition and fees never graduate.

To me, making the assumption that kids should go to college is MORE dangerous, and potentially more damaging to them than giving them the truth and the facts.

The facts are that college is NOT the place for 75% of the population.

Yep. I don't know the facts of the US. Obviously I am talking as a European.

 

[jilla82]

This.

If you don't wanna put the work in to complete a degree, what makes you think that you'll put in the work to build a business?

Apples and Oranges...to some, work is a lot more fun than school (I'm one of them).

If I ever have kids im going to suggest they not go straight to college. At that age you have no idea what you want to do in life, what kind of person you are, etc... Most just do it because they are told whats right, but it leads to a boring life a lot of folks regret.
With that said, its probably right for most people because its somewhat safe.

But like someone else said...I would rather work weekends in a restaurant while working on your business, than working a square job.
Would rather go out guns blazing than hiding in a corner (if you know what I mean).

 

[Skys]

Apples and Oranges...to some, work is a lot more fun than school (I'm one of them).

To some.


I don't think it's apples and oranges. When you go to college, and then quit because some things are hard and/or boring, what makes you think that anything different becomes not hard/boring? Will you quit then again, just because it got boring?

 

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[Skys]

The facts are that college is NOT the place for 75% of the population.

And how many are not made for entrepreneurship?

I think we can agree that some part of the population are just screwed, F*ck ups no matter what they do.

 

[jilla82]

To some.


I don't think it's apples and oranges. When you go to college, and then quit because some things are hard and/or boring, what makes you think that anything different becomes not hard/boring? Will you quit then again, just because it got boring?

The motivation is different.

 

[Skys]

The motivation is different.

How so?

 

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[Rawr]

Let me tell you something. For all your wanting to be great, for all your needing to be great, for all the lies you tell yourself about how great you are.

You ever wonder who told us those lies first? You did. Your generation, pops.




Vig, the parents can't tell the kid not to go. They have no other way to help "steer" while their own life is not even on course.

 

[jilla82]

How so?

School is school...I can see if you want to be a Doctor or Lawyer...but most people are going to school to get a regular a$$ job.
They finish school just so someone can hire them.

When you are trying to build something yourself there is a sense of urgency...there is an internal drive, its something you chose, you suffer from the mistakes, you learn because you want to learn, not because its on a syllabus.

I know what you are saying...but everyone is different.

 

[Skys]

You ever wonder who told us those lies first? You did. Your generation, pops.




Vig, the parents can't tell the kid not to go. They have no other way to help "steer" while their own life is not even on course.

We are social creatures, so we just copy what we see. If everybody in your inviroment goes to college, you probably will too.
In my inviroment, the people that got a job at a young age have a very hard time living, their jobs can barely pay the rent and they don't have any particular skills to do something on their own. It's also far outside of their reality, that you can get rich without a degree.

I hear them say: "You will get rich, you have a degree". When I get rich, it will probably have little to do with my degree.

One other thing, how the slowlane is described in the book made me almost wanted to quit studying. Even in my final year. Words like 'mediocre', '9 till 5' .. etcetera.. Really, it's not appealing at all. But, then I look around, and see people with degrees having a starting salery of 3k euro. Some of my good friends make around 10k a month. For me, that's a lot of money. Having between 5k - 10k will be more then enough for me to live a comfortable life

I only enjoy vacations, going out to dinner, going to the movies.. reading a book...... I kind of like a simple life.

My point is. It's really relative. It's relative to your framing of the world.

 

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[Skys]

School is school...I can see if you want to be a Doctor or Lawyer...but most people are going to school to get a regular a$$ job.
They finish school just so someone can hire them.

When you are trying to build something yourself there is a sense of urgency...there is an internal drive, its something you chose, you suffer from the mistakes, you learn because you want to learn, not because its on a syllabus.

I know what you are saying...but everyone is different.

Everybody is different. I agree.

The thing that worries me, for the young people, is that they most of the time have no clue what they want with their lives. I was one of those people. So, the best thing for me, probably, was to just go travel, have some jobs on the side, and decide later. Go to college, or something else.

But "I am going to become an entrepreneur" seems so... against what really makes an entrepreneur. Isn't an entrepreneur somebody that wants to give value to others? Filling a need?
If you hate college, and don't want to become a student and just want to get rich... Isn't that just filling your own need instead of others?

 

[jilla82]

Its a personality thing. Some people need that freedom.
You can defiantly get into business for selfish reasons, you just cant forget that you are there to serve the people. IMO I think people say you shouldnt go into business for selfish reasons because a lot of folks have in their head that they want to work for themselves...so they go head first into business, and dont even take into account whats going on around them (what people actually want).

I look at it like a game...A real life, high stakes video game.
Thats why im up at 2am, and will probably be up for a few more hours...and will have no problem waking up at 8am.

But like I said earlier...I agree w/ you for the most part. I just wish people thought more about their life when they entered college. The person you are at 18, is a lot different than the person you are at 30. That debt is a mfer, and can take the life out of you. Which is another reason I think community colleges are great, but thats another topic.

 

[Skys]

I am not disagreeing with you neither. I hope It does not come across as I do.
I think we both agree that one should really think deeply what he or she really wants.

The younger somebody realises that he or she is responsible for his or her own life, the better. Unfortunately, the most important lessons are not being taught in High school. They rather teach you about chemicals, or what sort of sand is in the ground.

 

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[theag]

Whats up with all the meta-level discussions here lately?

Of course college isnt for everyone. I agree with Jack though, some people overestimate themselves and think they can be successful without a formal education. I just dropped out of one of the most reputable universities in Europe. Maybe I'm on of those guys that overestimate themselves. I don't know, time will tell.

But what I know is, that all these problems that Jack mentioned ("took a shot, it failed, and all the memories you got out of 18-22 is your business failing, your parents yelling at you, you losing friends") are problems that started for me since I started university, not my business. I only went to university because I had the wish of a slowlane career in investment banking in mind (and was right on track to achieve that), but discovered during an internship that this is not what I want from live. The memories of the last 2 years of my life, since I started university, suck. I didn't have fun while in university and was depressed, for many reasons. When I dropped out I was happier than ever before because I felt free to do whatever I want with my life.

Somebody mentioned that you won't be successful if you are a quitter. You quit once, you will always quit. I personally think thats bullshit. Of course its better to finish what you started, but you can't let that be the only argument in your decision process. You can't finish something with the only reason being that you have to finish it or you are a loser who will also quit everything else. I debated with myself intensely over this and decided that I won't finish just for the sake of finishing.

I dropped out for a variety of reasons, but mainly because I was very unhappy with my life and needed a big change to get me back on track and I didn't see how a degree would benefit me in the real world (except for typical slowlane jobs a guy with a business degree will get). Somebody will say now that its better to build a business on the side while you are in college or are financially secured by a slowlane job. Maybe thats right. But I rather work some bullshit job on the weekend to keep myself afloat and be able to work on my business. For me its also about being fully immersed in your business, feeling to pressure to succeed. If I remember right MJ also felt this pressure when he moved to Phoenix with only a few hundred dollars, and I'm sure other successful entrepreneurs felt it. If you got your back against the wall you can only move forward and thats what I do now. Its hard and I'm struggling, but I'm way happier than I was when I was still in university.

Notice how I don't say "I know I will be successful"? Its because I don't know. I'm working hard on it, but I will never know if it works out. Maybe I will fail, maybe I should have finished my degree to have a better safety net, maybe I will have some success but hardly enough to have a lifestyle that I could have easily had with a standard slowlane job and maybe I will succeed fully. Whatever happens, I stand by my decision to drop out, and so should everyone, whether it is the decision to go to college, not go to college, drop out, or whatever.

 

[Skys]

Somebody mentioned that you won't be successful if you are a quitter. You quit once, you will always quit. I personally think thats bullshit.

The past does not equal the future. Forming a habit can be a dangerous one, especially when it's "I am going to quit because I am not happy right now".

But I rather work some bullshit job on the weekend to keep myself afloat and be able to work on my business.

This is something I just don't get. I am not saying it's a wrong mentality, I really just don't understand it.

When I read this "college is a waste of time" type of threads, the people that are against it tell you their biggest concern: Wasting time.
So, how is having to work 40 hours+ at a bullshit job to 'stay afloat' not wasting your time?

Maybe the people that want to build a business and have a job on the side, still live at home? With no bills to pay? Not having to bring food on the table etcetera? No kids? I don't know.
Lots of people here are 18-22 year old, it would not suprise me some or most of them still live at home with not having a clear idea how much life really costs. Having a bullshit job, is being very low paid. Very low paid. Your money that comes in, will be gone at the end of the month. So, how are you going to invest in your own business?

The argument that MJ moved away to build a business in Phoenix, well.. in that same paragraph he mentioned he worked as a web developer and made more money with that slowlane job he ever did before.....

 

[mlcmartin]

Except when you're 18, the chicks don't wanna F*ck you anyway - so what's the point? Besides, you'll have far more success with chicks once you're learned the basics of succeeding in business (because getting customers are the same kind of skills that are required for getting chicks).. just my 2 cents

 

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[mlcmartin]

"Somebody mentioned that you won't be successful if you are a quitter. You quit once, you will always quit. I personally think thats bullshit." - you should always quit things that aren't working.

 

[theag]

The argument that MJ moved away to build a business in Phoenix, well.. in that same paragraph he mentioned he worked as a web developer and made more money with that slowlane job he ever did before.....

He started to make money as a webdeveloper (freelance, not a job) after his move.

The past does not equal the future. Forming a habit can be a dangerous one, especially when it's "I am going to quit because I am not happy right now".

Sure, if you want to continue doing something that doesn't make you happy you're free to do that. I won't.

 

[Skys]

He started to make money as a webdeveloper (freelance, not a job) after his move.

Yes. That is true. Freelance is still a job. But not a bullshit job. What do you see as a bullshit job?

Sure, if you want to continue doing something that doesn't make you happy you're free to do that. I won't.

Well, you are willing to do a bullshit job. You think a bullshit job will make you happy? Or even keep you happy? To me, a bullshit job doesn't sound like a happy place to be.

The point I was trying to make, which might be wrong, is that nobody ever is 100% happy, all the time. So when you make it a habit to quit whenever you get that feeling of being unhappy, you might make that into a habit even worse: Never sticking to anything at all.

I don't think you have that habit. Like you said, you thought it out before you quited college.

 

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[theag]

What do you see as a bullshit job?

Yes youre right, freelance webdeveloper is not a bullshit job. For me bullshit jobs are the jobs of last resort, e.g. working at McDonalds etc. Thats not what I'm working at, because gladly I have some valuable skills (that I didn't learn in university) that I can leverage to make better use of my time. I'm working as a IT supporter (12 hours a week right now, which is enough to "keep me afloat") and am currently looking for another job in Ecommerce to work in something more related to my fastlane plans (also pays more) and to build up some funds.

By the way, I think my decision to quit college would have been harder (maybe I would have even stayed) if I didn't have the skills I have (IT, webdevelopment, online marketing). But I knew that with this skills I can always find a job that is not a bullshit job or make enough money on my own to pay the bills with a low amount of actual work hours, which allows me to focus on building my fastlane business.

Well, you are willing to do a bullshit job. You think a bullshit job will make you happy? Or even keep you happy? To me, a bullshit job doesn't sound like a happy place to be.

The point I was trying to make, which might be wrong, is that nobody ever is 100% happy, all the time. So when you make it a habit to quit whenever you get that feeling of being unhappy, you might make that into a habit even worse: Never sticking to anything at all.

I agree with you here. You will never be perfectly happy, regardless of what you actually do right now. Sometimes you have to stick to something even if it doesn't make you happy. But sometimes you have to quit. Its a decision you have to think hard about and weigh the possible outcomes.

 

[Skys]

Sometimes you have to stick to something even if it doesn't make you happy. But sometimes you have to quit. Its a decision you have to think hard about and weigh the possible outcomes.

Yes, and what makes it even harder is knowing that if you continue something great might be just around the corner.
A bit like the guy decided not to invest in Zuckerbergs new plan, which was Facebook.

I have made it a rule that if I set a goal, I finish it.