BRO-MARKETING! (Great Copy Selling Crap Products)

[Vigilante]

To me this was one of the best points of the book, as I know you have been working on how to communicate this simple shift for a long time. You summed up (and indicted in a few paragraphs) a pariah that has not only affected eCommerce marketing en total, but we have also seen our share of BRO-marketers come and (mostly) go from the forum.

Some times, I look at the "success" of others and speculate on how much easier it would be to compromise integrity. We earned every single review we have the old fashioned way. We only market products I would use myself, and have literally written off thousands of dollars of products that I could not recommend to a friend. There are people on the forum TODAY who have compromised in many ways to get to where they are at, or where you perceive they are at. It's not sustainable, and when you spend all day looking over your shoulder it's not really all that fun. Business is hard. Integrity is harder. Business with integrity is the hardest, but at the end of it all it may be one of the few things that matters.

However, it has also been interesting when you get a glimpse past the facade of the bro-marketers to their true financials. Some spend $55,000 to make $50,000 gross. All you ever hear about is their run rate, not their bleed rate. (Make it up in volume?)

I had a friend that was one of the original bro-marketers. Ultimately, they are gamblers. They're betting they can escape with the money before anyone discovers the fraud. Or, some hope the fraud turns legitimate in time to morph from a slimebag into a success story before anyone is the wiser.

My friend, that was one of the original bro marketers? He'll spend the rest of his life in the "hot house" which is a name given for the maximum security Leavenworth prison because the air conditioning is not enough to keep up with the gruling summertime temperatures inside of the prison when the bricks heat up during the summers.

I want to be honest. I want to make decisions that benefit people. I know that I have taken a slower path than many of my friends have recommended, but at the end of the day I have something to be proud of.

When you are first starting out, you want to win one customer by giving them value in exchange for money. Somehow, as the multiples get larger, people lose sight of that pure focus. It becomes easy to justify cutting corners, gambling on ROI, and compromising integrity. Chasing money.

MJ's bro-marketers concept came from his observations of marketing trends that were focused on chasing money at all costs. He's really the only one I have ever heard that has a national spotlight that was willing to take on this dark undercurrent, that even involves some within his own readership. How refreshing to see someone that would take a principled stand for the sake of the principle, with the effects be damned.

Truth is there was a day when I was dancing around the perimeter of the dark side. Now it repulses me. Rather than see how close my marketing can get to the danger zone, I want the line drawn so far beyond trouble that I am beyond reproach.

And I can sleep at night.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

In the day of stock brokers, we had BOILER ROOM OPERATIONS (BRO) which sold worthless stocks...

Today, we have the same thing...

(From UNSCRIPTED, by DeMarco)



If your company stops advertising and marketing, how long would you survive? If you need advertising to survive, you could be a bro-marketer....

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Walter Hay]

Once in my sales career I did a terrible thing.

I deliberately made a sale to someone who didn't want to buy from me. It wasn't Bro marketing it was pride and "good" salesmanship.

He actually did need the type of product I was selling. He was paying a lot more for a less effective product, but his brusque refusal riled me. I knew I would never get a repeat order but I soothed my hurt pride by making that sale.

Fast Forward: I took my own folly to heart and determined to never do such a thing again. The result was that with my new attitude I was an even better salesman. Sales were far less important than giving value. Sales skyrocketed.

Bro marketers seem to never learn. They have a formula that works for the simple reason that there's a sucker born every day.

MJ's great advice can help newbies avoid becoming suckers. If only it could help Bro marketers change their outlook and discover that providing value and making every customer a happy customer is not only spiritually rewarding, but is more often than not financially rewarding too.

Walter

 

[Denim Chicken]

Reminds me of..

 

[MJ DeMarco]

My other favorite? Teaching material that worked... 2-3 years ago. Oh man. "See EXACTLY what I did in 2014 when CPCs were half of what they are today and when I was the only one in the market... just pay $1997 for the course! You get my audience and targeting, too! Don't ask why I killed the campaign if it was doing so well

OMG, I think you described a meaty slice of the IM racket...

When a great strategy milks the crowd for millions, you keep it a secret.
When it no longer is effective, you then package it into a "This strategy made me millions!" seminar, PDF, or webinar. (Of course, for $1997).

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

"Pay me to find out how I did that to you."

"Give me $5,000 and in one weekend, I'll teach you what I just did to you."

It's the advanced envelope stuffing scam.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

I have honest valuable services and products that I have to offer

I think I have good products/services

Bro-marketing is not about the marketing, it's about the PRODUCT.

Let's not confuse great marketing with bro-marketing.

You can kick a$$ at marketing and still have a great product.

The problem is, we have a lot of great marketers who are pushing shit products.

Their business IS the marketing of perceived value.

Which is why anytime I hear, "I am an Internet Marketer" what I'm really hearing is "I have a shit product and I use great marketing to sell it."

 

[jon.a]

I liked the part after the highlight better. I knew that guy, he tried to borrow money from me.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

how am I going to join the 2 Comma Club?

Sign up for my next webinar and I'll tell you how. It's only $10,000, but act now, I'm only accepting 100 trainees.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[The-J]

When a great strategy milks the crowd for millions, you keep it a secret.

I wish more people would understand this.

If there was more money in using the system, they wouldn't sell the system: they'd use it and make sure nobody F*cking knows.

 

[HayesTech]

I swear a few times in Unscripted you are describing a KNAWLEDEGEable guy who loves his Lamborghini's.

 

[Imgal]

Came here to protest against the anti-feminist title of this post and state how I felt highly victimised and needed compensation. Darn it MJ.

 

[The-J]

Thanks for saying this, MJ.

The sale of BRO marketing works on the idea "It worked on me, it'll work on other people".

BRO marketers use legitimate and illegitimate tactics to sell products that are ultimately illegitimate.

My favorite is funnel hacking. It's an advanced term for 'swiping'. Sad thing is? I've done it. I've compromised myself in that way.

Yes, steal every element of another company's marketing strategy (not the general gist, but ALL of it: copy, design, the works!) and plop your product in. It's OK: everyone's doing it, and those guys already tested what works! You save thousands that another company ALREADY F*ckING SPENT just so you're shitty replacement product can overtake them... for a short time.

My other favorite? Teaching material that worked... 2-3 years ago. Oh man. "See EXACTLY what I did in 2014 when CPCs were half of what they are today and when I was the only one in the market... just pay $1997 for the course! You get my audience and targeting, too! Don't ask why I killed the campaign if it was doing so well "

This shit is endemic to IM and people fall for it left and right. The real secret is that you can only really trust your own data and your own offers.

 

[The-J]

Other than testing the various techniques (which is expensive.... I blew $5k last year for $1.5k in revenue)... how does one separate marketing tactics that work from the shit that's old and no longer effective?

Testing is CHEAP not expensive. For every several failed attempts, you'll get one that you can ride.

There's a lot to be learned from others' mistakes but there's infinitely more to be learned from your own. Every product, market, geo area, etc. is different. They're also all the same.

Stop thinking in terms of 'marketing tactics' and think in terms of communicating your offer to the people who would benefit.

Sales funnels work, FB/Google ads work, media buying works, email marketing works, solo ads work, you name it, it works.

What doesn't work is selling shit and calling it sugar.

What doesn't work is copying other people straight away.

What doesn't work is treating your customer base like a number on your income statement.

There is a truthful base to all of the shit marketing being sold. But if it seems like 'oh just plug it in and it works'... I can tell you it's horse, dog, bull, and chicken shit.

If your problem is reach, then your job is to get the reach and make it profitable. (AKA customer value optimization)

 

[eliquid]

I'll let you know if there is a "upsell". Since you are not on the 2018 Fastlane Summit (Confirmed Attendees) list.

@MJ DeMarco
@Chitown
@eliquid
@SteveO
@million$$$smile
@biophase
@Envision
@AllenCrawley
@DaveC
@csalvato
@Kung Fu Steve
@TheTruth
@Arrabista
@Get Right

I plan on having in my presentation:

• 1 bump offer
• 2 OTO's ( with several down sales per OTO if you say no )
• a 1x1 weekly coaching pre-sell message ( snuck in my presentation )
• at least 4 seats open for my $25,000 inner circle master mind
• 3 payment plans available during my urgent 45 min presentation ( plans are over at the end of my presentation
• an option to buy me drinks at the bar ( recurring payment every 60 days )
• the option to pay in all this in bitcoin
• A weekly email to persuade you why you should come to my master event across the street next year this same time
• an intro to my "friend" I've known since high school who is also a guru that Im an affiliate for and he will pitch you all kinds of stuff too if you don't buy from me. His name is Tai...
• A chance for you to fly to my yacht ( rented for the day ), eat dinner with me and 4 other guru's, and have me mentor you for $125,000

.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Do you guys agree there are "good" forms of bro marketing?

Yes, but then it wouldn't be called "bro-marketing" -- it just be marketing.

The problem is when bro-marketing pushes shit products.

BRO = Boiler Room Operation.

Excellent marketing, persuasion, but worthless stocks. (In this case, worthless products are sold.)

It becomes "BRO", when your marketing is your business, not your product.

 

[MTF]

BRO-marketing was one of the concepts that hit me the most. I fell victim to such schemes a few times and returned a lot of worthless products (what's the point of great marketing if your product is shit?).

I greatly dislike the whole "infoproduct" industry with their fake timers, "limited" offers, bullshit bonuses, and general scamminess. The sad part is that it works better than the honest approach. Fortunately, it only works better in the short term. If you're patient, in the long term you'll be the winner.

This shit is very prevalent in the self-publishing industry where "experts" making $5000 a month share with you their ultimate strategy to make six figures a month. I used to believe this stuff when I was starting out. Now when I read their "expert advice" or see the products they sell to newbies I just shake my head. More often than not, going against what they're preaching is a recipe for success, while following their advice is a recipe for failure (as in the Amazon course example MJ talks about in the book).

 

[AllenCrawley]

You might be a BRO-marketer if you justify your bad product and business model by saying, "I'm just doing this to build up the cash needed for my real fastlane business."

 

[MJ DeMarco]

The TLDR of Bro-Marketing...

 

[GuestUser450]

It's self-perpetuating too. BRO-marketers bring in green wantrepreneurs with screenshots, sell the sizzle and leave massive facebook groups of dejected cynics who still don't know how to cook a steak - but they do know how they were duped and it becomes their only skill.

 

[ZF Lee]

I swear a few times in Unscripted you are describing a KNAWLEDEGEable guy who loves his Lamborghini's.

Bingo! Although mine and your post might add on to the Tai SEO targetting...
Even worse, these kind of lack of value businesses may end up fighting price wars and customer battles.
No innovation. No problem solving.

Copywriting and advertising are good, but those BRO-folks thought that these aspects were the EVENTS instead of part of the PROCESS. The magic bullet. So they stuck onto them and forgot about others like customer service and product development. The actual value of products is also an integral part of free marketing i.e word of mouth.

Bingo, @MJ DeMarco . You linked it all the way back to TMF ! SUCS!

I'm glad that I only came here in 2016. It must have been mayhem back then, what with the mods enforcing forum martial law. I saw similar atrocities in Black Hat and Warrior Forum, and it was like mining for gold in the middle of the Battle of the Somme.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

Bump.

 

[Scot]

If the reason a program, training course, webinar, sales pitch exists is because...

"I've been having success at this for years. People kept asking me 'hey Johnny, do you do coaching?' I finally decided it's time to give back and teach you what I've learned so you can get a head start on [insert get rich fad here]"


...then it may be Bro-Marketing.


Not going to lie. I almost fell for this in the real estate game with a few of the podcasts out there on how to flip raw land.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Leveraging tools of influence, urgency and scarcity were a valuable lesson for me from the BRO-marketers.

Very valuable tools of the trade.

I have no problem with "bro marketing" techniques in general, it only becomes a problem when it's used to push junk products that don't work. IOW, it's the means to and end, and the end is a scam.

 

[animalstyle]

Thanks for bumping this MJ. I've been building websites since the gold rush SEO days and just never hopped on the churn and burn, zero value, moving whatever crap has an affiliate program bandwagon. I've actually been self conscious at times because I am hardwired to take the 'slow' route AKA the route that feels right to me morally and this gives me some context around that. Still have tons of work to do, but last night I mentally switched 'money' for 'value-vouchers' and things suddenly make a lot more sense!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[G-Man]

I wish more people would understand this.

If there was more money in using the system, they wouldn't sell the system: they'd use it and make sure nobody F*cking knows.

It's called altruism, bro.

One minor lesson learned dealing with these people: I had a bunch of these dbags contacting us trying to sell business financing. They tell you they're based in a high rise that looks over central park, even though you can hear the guy trying to brush Dorito crumbs off his track suit while he's talking to you. You can practically feel the hair product oozing out of his pores onto the headset over the phone. I let loose on this guy and told him to go F*ck himself. Ever since then he's been calling my assistant like 4 times a day being very terse and occasionally profane.

Lesson learned: Don't be unnecessarily confrontational with people you know have no sense of dignity.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AnAverageJoe]

Thinking back on the time I fell head first into a bro marketing scam both pisses me off and depresses me at the same time.

How could I be so blind and naive? How do they sleep with themselves at night? I spent $997 (that I didn't actually have) on a "business in a box" course. "I'll give you the exact business that makes me 10k/month!" Yeah, it didn't get me 10k/month. It just put me $997 in the hole. It almost drove me away from trying to be an entrepreneur altogether.

They prey on people who don't know any better or have reached a point of complete desperation that are just trying to better themselves. Most of them at least. Some of them are assholes just the same and fit right in with the bro-marketing fraternity.

Anyway, I eventually found MFL and you amazing people, and I'm chasing my dreams again. I'm not moving as fast as the bro-marketers, but I'm doing it right, learning, and solving problems every step of the way.

Thanks guys.

EDIT: Just found some in the wild...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[theag]

Oh the irony of Andrew posting here..

 

[MJ DeMarco]

useful and practical knowledge.

You answered your own question. Not all great marketers are BRO-marketers, but all BRO-marketers are great marketers.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Andy Black]

It's self-perpetuating too. BRO-marketers bring in green wantrepreneurs with screenshots, sell the sizzle and leave massive facebook groups of dejected cynics who still don't know how to cook a steak - but they do know how they were duped and it becomes their only skill.

What was it MJ said to sum it up one time?

"Pay me to find out how I did that to you."