Billionaire Ray Dalio: Meditation is ‘the single most important reason' for my success

[ChrisV]

I haven't finished reading the book and while part of me wants to say it changed my life, it's still a bit early to make such a declaration. But the guy surely know what he's talking about. At almost every paragraph I read, I get an epiphany. Ok I might be exaggerating a bit, but that's really the feeling.

Update us once it sinks in. I usually give a book a week or two after i read it before i determine how much value it had.

Now, about taking advice from a billionaire, I believe him when he says that, and meditation is without any doubt a good practice. But of course it's not a silver bullet. I'm sure he doesn't even thinks it is. Remember? There's no silver bullet. At all.

No silver bullets, better there are some pretty nifty hollow-points out there

Woah, when I read the first post of this thread I got excited like a little girl waiting to try her new princess costume she just received for her 5th birthday.

Why? Because (seemingly) out of nowhere, last week my kindle made me a recommendation to read "Principles" from Ray Dalio. I never heard of this guy one week ago and now there's a post on the fastlane forum about it. Talk about Baader Meinhoff

If you haven't read it, add it to your reading list.

I haven't finished reading the book and while part of me wants to say it changed my life, it's still a bit early to make such a declaration. But the guy surely know what he's talking about. At almost every paragraph I read, I get an epiphany. Ok I might be exaggerating a bit, but that's really the feeling.

Last time I lived this was with... The Millionaire Fastlane (I swear I'm not a sycophant).

Now, about taking advice from a billionaire, I believe him when he says that, and meditation is without any doubt a good practice. But of course it's not a silver bullet. I'm sure he doesn't even thinks it is. Remember? There's no silver bullet. At all.

The more I learn, discover and hear about successful people, the more I believe that no one actually knows what the f*c they are talking about, except for THEIR CONTEXT.
That means that every advice out there is given by someone that has their own character, upbringing, way of seeing and dealing with things, environment... Which is almost always different than yours or mine.

Now I'm not rejecting every advice that's given. But I think the way you take the information and adapt it to your own context is a LOT more important than the advice in itself.

Yes, they are millionaires who never wake up before 10am. But there are a ton that do.
Wealthy people who don't work hard. Many of them work like mad though.
Successful entrepreneurs who made it on their first attempt. But countless of others who made it after 5, 10 or 100 attempts.

And probably billionaires who don't meditate.
But it's not important. Context is. What is important to me is that when I come across a strategy/advice/opinion, I try it, and see for myself in MY context if it produces results. That's really the only way you will ever know what works or not.

Yes, I like to look for patterns. But even then the patterns may not be the cause. For now, from looking through tons of data I’d say the biggest personality traits are: hard work, intelligence, assertiveness. Top skills? Sales, cognitive enhancement, educating yourself (learning). And the best actions is what MJ outlined in his books.

 

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[Big Z]

This is an interesting thread and I would like to contribute here on my experience and thoughts on this subject. Just my opinion here.
To me meditation is like exercising your mind just as you exercise your body at the gym. Sitting for a period of time and focusing on one thing takes practice and is not easy. What is happening when you do that? What are the benefits? How does it help you in life? How does it help you make money? So many questions.
First I see it as two parts. The benefits you get while actually meditating and the benefits you get off the cushion (or whatever you sit on)
While meditating, the body can go into a relaxed state. Does not always happen in the beginning but as you practice you can get there. Once you are in a relaxed state your body will benefit in many different ways , which many studies have shown. But forget about the studies, lets talk about common sense. When you are put into a stressful situation your body may experience some negative emotions and your body does produce stress hormones that can take a toll. So, common sense shows that in a relaxed state your body goes into repair mode. The opposite effect of stress. We do not choose the stress most of the time it just happens because of the things that life throws at us. We must choose however the relaxed state by doing things which get us there. People go on vacation, they watch tv, or play games that make them feel good. However it is important to get that rest to help our mind and body stay strong and fit.
Now why choose meditation instead of the other things that might relax or repair our bodies and mind? I say because of the effects and benefits you receive off the cushion.

The second part. Off the cushion. This comes from my experience and not from studies. I believe that meditation allows us choices. Choices in the way we think and act about things in general. You become more aware of your thoughts through out the day. You become more aware of your feelings and actions as well. Why is this important. Our beliefs and mindset have everything to do with what we achieve and create in our life. Our beliefs and feelings drive our actions and our actions drive our results. Many times we allow our minds to get "caught up" in a situation or thought which can bring negative emotions and feelings that cause us to unconsciously act in a way that does not benefit or support our goals and desires. People find themselves in a cycle of repeating the same behavior or actions that cause them to undermine whatever it is that they are trying to achieve. It could be over spending, smoking, skipping work outs, eating unhealthy, deviating form there business plan. Many bad habits happen this way. How can meditation change this?
By becoming more aware of our thoughts and feelings we can prevent ourselves from getting "caught up" in whatever it is that is arising inside of us. There exists a small space in time that allows you to notice how you are feeling and allows you to "choose" your response. There is a lot of power in controlling your response to certain situations and feelings. You can now choose the proper response that most benefits your desired goal or outcome.
A small example can be one of just driving to work and getting cut off by another driver. You can instantly feel an emotion of anger or rage, but if you have space in thought and awareness you can choose to go about your day and be grateful that you didn't not get into an accident. As opposed to flipping the other driver off and getting more worked up and possibly creating a worse situation for yourself. There are many examples of these types of things that happen all the time.
In business you may not get that gold gumball after so many tries. Instead of getting caught up in the frustration and anger you can "choose" to analyze your process and improve to get closer to your goal.

I don't know if this makes sense, but It is my experience on how meditation has improved my life and added to my success.

Z

 

[MetalGear]

• I hope this helps someone out there
• Wishing you all an improved quality of life and fulfilled dreams
• 

 

[Sanj Modha]

Dalio is a big fan of Transcendental Meditation which is what I do, twice a day.

FYI - It's a great book too.

 

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[Jackmar]

This is a very interesting subject to me, I've spent years getting pretty deep into this stuff and I want to share a very clear and no nonsense technique I've learned that gets noticeable results in just a few sessions (assuming your consistent).

This is very simple method and it works great for me. Meditation is close and personal and one size most certainly doesn't fit all. However, I'm pretty confident that if you try this you will find a good amount of benefit from it. If you do this in the morning regularly, there will be a profoundly positive effect on the rest of your day.

These instructions are based on Samahdi / Shamatha Meditation (AKA Concentration Meditation), which in my opinion is very well suited to increasing overall willpower and day-to-day 'personal effectiveness'. Vipassana Meditation (Insight Meditation) is more geared towards seeing through mind patterns and getting to the bottom of how you think and perceive the world (which certainly has benefits as well).

Generally 10-15 minutes a day is enough once you have been practicing but it may require some more time the first few sessions.

1. Sit with your back straight so you don't get sleepy. It's surprising how much your posture effects your mind. It's not meant to be comfortable and relaxing. It's best to approach this exercise as a sort of 'weight lifting'.
2. Pay attention to the feeling of your breath going in and out at the tip of your nose, the area of attention should be smallish, maybe the size of a marble.
3. Every time you exhale, count up in your mind if you were able to stay 100% focused on your breath
4. When you get to count 10, start over again at 1. (This can act as a check in on your progress, and is a useful tool early on. If you find yourself counting past 10, you know your mind was wandering and needs to brought back to focus.)
5. If you find your mind straying at all, and you lose focus on the breath and your mind wanders, start counting back at 1 again. Force your mind back to your breath. This takes effort. Meditation is not 'relaxing' in this sense.
6. See if you can hit to 3 or 4 consecutive sets of 10 breaths without losing 100% focus (not easy, it will take some effort). If you are able to hit 3 or 4 sets (30-40 breaths total) without losing focus, you have probably done it, you win. You will probably be in a state of mind called 'Access Concentration' in some Buddhist traditions. (I should say, having a goal like this can actually be counter productive to the goal itself. As you get closer to the goal, your mind gets excited and distracted by the idea that you are about to hit the goal. It's still good to have the goal for motivational purposes, just try to be detached from it while you're actually meditating.)
8. This state of mind feels pretty fantastic. Your body will be buzzing, and likely your body and mind will be so still you can’t even notice yourself breathing anymore. (The breath gets very very subtle in this state, and at this point, to go deeper, meditators will find a new object to concentrate on. Google 'nimitta' for an example of what to switch to once you breath is too subtle to notice)
9. I have found that reaching this state of 'Access Concentration' once every day and staying in it as long as I can manage is enough to see some crazy benefits to your overall mindset and ability to take action despite your mind.

Buddhists have mapped out quite a few states of concentration that are deeper than 'Access Concentration' called 'Absorptions' ('Jhanas'). Google 'Access concentration and the jhanas' if you want to go deeper.

 

[superb]

This is a very interesting subject to me, I've spent years getting pretty deep into this stuff and I want to share a very clear and no nonsense technique I've learned that gets noticeable results in just a few sessions (assuming your consistent).

This is very simple method and it works great for me. Meditation is close and personal and one size most certainly doesn't fit all. However, I'm pretty confident that if you try this you will find a good amount of benefit from it. If you do this in the morning regularly, there will be a profoundly positive effect on the rest of your day.

These instructions are based on Samahdi / Shamatha Meditation (AKA Concentration Meditation), which in my opinion is very well suited to increasing overall willpower and day-to-day 'personal effectiveness'. Vipassana Meditation (Insight Meditation) is more geared towards seeing through mind patterns and getting to the bottom of how you think and perceive the world (which certainly has benefits as well).

Generally 10-15 minutes a day is enough once you have been practicing but it may require some more time the first few sessions.

1. Sit with your back straight so you don't get sleepy. It's surprising how much your posture effects your mind. It's not meant to be comfortable and relaxing. It's best to approach this exercise as a sort of 'weight lifting'.
2. Pay attention to the feeling of your breath going in and out at the tip of your nose, the area of attention should be smallish, maybe the size of a marble
3. Every time you exhale, count up in your mind if you were able to stay 100% focused on your breath
4. When you get to count 10, start over again at 1 (this can act as a check in on your progress. and is a useful tool early on. If you find yourself counting past 10, you know your mind was wandering and needs to brought back to focus)
5. If you find your mind straying at all, and you lose focus on the breath and your mind wanders, start counting back at 1 again. Force your mind back to your breath. This takes effort. Meditation is not 'relaxing' in this sense.
6. See if you can hit to 3 or 4 consecutive sets of 10 breaths without losing 100% focus (not easy, it will take some effort) If you are able to hit 3 or 4 sets (30-40 breaths total) without losing focus. You have probably done it, you win. You will probably be in a state of mind called 'Access Concentration' in some Buddhist traditions.
8. This state of mind feels pretty fantastic, your body will be buzzing, and likely your body and mind will be so still you can’t even notice yourself breathing anymore. (the breath gets very very subtle in this state)
9. I have found that reaching this state of 'Access Concentration' once every day and staying in it as long as I can manage is enough to see some crazy benefits to your overall mindset and ability to take action despite your mind.

Buddhists have mapped out quite a few states of concentration that are deeper than 'Access Concentration' called 'Absorptions' ('Jhanas'). Google 'Access concentration and the jhanas' if you want to go deeper

I'm going to give this a try tomorrow, thanks!

 

[vishalvnexus]

Hi

I was going to ask what type of meditation but that’s what the whole article is about.

Have you done any research on different types and which is best Chris?

I have the calm app on my phone which I love, I had a look at all the other apps but I preferred calm. Still need to make it a more regular habit, this thread is a good reminder of how important it is.

Hi, I am using Headspace on my android. Which app are you using?

 

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[vishalvnexus]

Okay so... meditation helps with a mental facet called Executive Function.

Executive Function is “higher order thinking.” It’s planning, response inhibition, goal directed behavior, Self Control. Read through the answers and you’ll notice a lot of the difference between the wealthy responders and non wealthy responders had to do with many of those things, most notably Self Control.

Executive functions (EFs) make possible mentally playing with ideas; taking the time to think before acting; meeting novel, unanticipated challenges; resisting temptations; and staying focused. Core EFs are inhibition [response inhibition (self-control--resisting temptations and resisting acting impulsively) and interference control (selective attention and cognitive inhibition)], working memory, and cognitive flexibility (including creatively thinking "outside the box," seeing anything from different perspectives, and quickly and flexibly adapting to changed circumstances).​

If you look at my thread about the differences between Millionaires and non-millionaires, the differences become obvious.

FEATURED! - Author spent 5 years interviewing 177 selfmade millionaires to find their secrets. Findings inside.


Meditation helps Excutive Function, Self Control and boosts willpower. It makes it easier to do the things you know you need to do, but don’t feel like doing.

We all know what we need to do to succeed, just like people generally know what they need to do to lose weight. It’s usually just a disconnect between knowing and doing. It's not usually"i don't know what to do" it's usually more like "i don't feel like doing that."

Here are a couple of other things that help executive function.

"Various activities appear to improve children’s EFs. The best evidence exists for computer-based training, traditional martial arts, and two school curricula. Weaker evidence, though strong enough to pass peer review, exists for aerobics, yoga, mindfulness, and other school curricula."

"Children devote time and effort to activities they love; therefore, EF interventions might use children’s motivation to advantage. Focusing narrowly on EFs or aerobic activity alone appears not to be as efficacious in improving EFs as also addressing children’s emotional, social, and character development (as do martial arts, yoga, and curricula shown to improve EFs). Children with poorer EFs benefit more from training; hence, training might provide them an opportunity to “catch up” with their peers and not be left behind. Remaining questions include how long benefits of EF training last and who benefits most from which activities."​

Activities and Programs That Improve Children’s Executive Functions

Also:

"The importance of social, emotional, and physical health for cognitive health is discussed because stress, lack of sleep, loneliness, or lack of exercise each impair EFs [exec functions]. That EFs are trainable and can be improved with practice is addressed, including diverse methods tried thus far."​

Executive functions. - PubMed - NCBI

Adele Diamond is one of the leading researchers when it comes to Executive fuction.

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

 

[MitchC]

Hi

Hi, I am using Headspace on my android. Which app are you using?

I tried headspace but I prefer “Calm”, it’s on iPhone not sure if it’s on android but I’d say so

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Lot of meditation threads on the forum, more than I would have guessed...

150 Benefits of Meditation [2019 Edition] - Synctuition

Thread tag

meditation | The Fastlane Entrepreneur Forum

 

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[ChrisV]

Lot of meditation threads on the forum, more than I would have guessed...

150 Benefits of Meditation [2019 Edition] - Synctuition

Thread tag

meditation | The Fastlane Entrepreneur Forum

These are also amazing for meditation as well:



Home

I found his Theta Meditation System to be invaluable. I want to try the Default Mode Network one. But there are pros and cons to using tools. The biggest pro is that it's super easy and you don't have to worry about anything. You just plug and play and it immediately puts you into a meditative state. The con is that part of the benefit of meditation is the ability to train yourself to do it, so you can calm yourself during the day... and with tools you dont get that training as much. There way be a workaround for that, but I juat haven't found it yet

 

[Ninjakid]

I don't do sitting meditation as much as I used to. I think it's good for Zen monks who are trying to detach themselves from the world. But if you're trying to engage in the world, doing it for too long is a waste of time.

Meditation doesn't have to be sitting down and trying to clear your head. Exercising while focusing on nothing but the task at hand can be meditation. Shaolin monks use their kung fu forms as meditation. Bruce Lee used morning runs as meditation.

Also, do you really want to try and clear your head completely? Again, maybe this is good if you're trying to reach a kind of spiritual enlightenment where you spend most of the time clear headed, but this doesn't seem constructive for my goals.

A better alternative is to practice visualization and affirmations. These also clear your mind, the difference is, they keep you focused on a vision and let everything else fade into nothingness. Becoming in harmony with one purpose sounds like enlightenment to me.

 

[Nigel B]

Agree that there are many forms of meditation and 'getting in the zone' training is certainly one of them.

Visualization is cool, if you focus on the process not just the outcome - too many people wishing for stuff out there

Of course Ray Dalio spoke about TM, not just meditation in general. TM offers physical recovery benefits not associated with other forms of meditations but is very much a stationary activity

 

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[luniac]

I don't do sitting meditation as much as I used to. I think it's good for Zen monks who are trying to detach themselves from the world. But if you're trying to engage in the world, doing it for too long is a waste of time.

Meditation doesn't have to be sitting down and trying to clear your head. Exercising while focusing on nothing but the task at hand can be meditation. Shaolin monks use their kung fu forms as meditation. Bruce Lee used morning runs as meditation.

Also, do you really want to try and clear your head completely? Again, maybe this is good if you're trying to reach a kind of spiritual enlightenment where you spend most of the time clear headed, but this doesn't seem constructive for my goals.

A better alternative is to practice visualization and affirmations. These also clear your mind, the difference is, they keep you focused on a vision and let everything else fade into nothingness. Becoming in harmony with one purpose sounds like enlightenment to me.

Clearing your head completely is akin to fasting of the mind.
We know fasting for the body is a healthy habit, it won't cause ur body to waste away, but quite the opposite, it gets rid of the garbage accumulating in the cells, and helps ur body to run well.

Same thing in ur head, that short session where you let go of everything and can be in total mental silence is a type of rejuvenation.
Easier said than done though, it takes some time to actually succeed in allowing ur mind to empty.

I've even read research relating the "empty mind" to being "in the zone". It's possible that one is a prerequisite for the other, and we've all experienced "the zone" at some point in our lives, its the best.

If you ruminate about "engaging" with the world a bit, u realize most people "engage" all day and get nowhere right?
The whole day to day zombie slowlane autopilot lifestyle is not really "engaging".
When you achieve silence, you naturally become more aware of everything. That is real engagement.

There's been brain scan studies done to compare experienced Mindfulness meditators vs Empty Mind meditators, and their brain structures were different.
Mindfulness meditators had stronger signal in a certain part of their brain, while empty mind meditators had an even excitation over their entire brain.

All roads don’t lead to Rome | Beyond The Mind

Here's an excerpt:
For example, a 2004 study of eleven Tibetan Buddhist monks in meditation showed intense gamma wave activity in certain parts of the brain REF. Yet a study of people using a mindfulness form of meditation, also a Buddhist activity, showed alpha activity — at the opposite end of the spectrum to gamma — which was more prominent in the left frontal side of the brain compared to the right REF. In short: two kinds of meditation, both claiming to be Buddhist in nature, yield electrical activity at opposite ends of the spectrum and in similar parts of the brain. A study by Fenwick of a different form of meditation seemed to show electrical changes that resemble sleep REF. Does that mean that meditation is a form of sleep? Yet another study revealed episodic electrical activity that mirrored epilepsy-like patterns REF.


I REALLY recommend the book Beyond The Mind. It's completely scientific based, and convinced me that Empty Mind meditation is probably what "meditation" actually is.

The way i meditate is i do Zhan Zhuang. So i stand up and assume a posture and just hold it for an hour. I set it and forget it and don't actively concentrate on anything. I let my body adjust by itself, and thoughts come and go but i don't grab on to them. Every session feels easier to just let go.
After im done i feel energized like a battery at least for little while.

 

[rogue synthetic]

I don't do sitting meditation as much as I used to. I think it's good for Zen monks who are trying to detach themselves from the world. But if you're trying to engage in the world, doing it for too long is a waste of time.

I found this article helpful with this issue.

I don’t generally write about quieting the mind because it’s one of those things that I find hinders rather than helps. It sets up a goal to reach and a comparison to make. You imagine what a quiet mind might be like and make that your goal. You compare your mind as it is to what you imagine it ought to be like and beat yourself up for not achieving your goal. At least that’s what I always did.

Dōgen's essays on Zen practice (you can find them in Moon in a Dewdrop) have some surprisingly accessible advice on this, too. If I've understood him, sitting zazen isn't about withdrawing completely. It's about finding that paradoxical spot which accepts both involvement and withdrawal.

 

[luniac]

To paraphrase Alan Watts "the buddha said you must let go of desire, so now you desire to let go of desire lol..."

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

There’s a book called The Sedona Method that was helpful for me, especially the part about whatever you fear is what you want to happen because that’s the identity (victim of ___) you’re most comfortable with.

I wanna see Ayanle’s update but I can’t tag him.

 

[Ninjakid]

Let me remind everyone, I've been using meditation since I was 17, and I'm 25 now. So safe to say I know A LITTLE about this topic and what works for me.

Clearing your head completely is akin to fasting of the mind.
We know fasting for the body is a healthy habit, it won't cause ur body to waste away, but quite the opposite, it gets rid of the garbage accumulating in the cells, and helps ur body to run well.

Same thing in ur head, that short session where you let go of everything and can be in total mental silence is a type of rejuvenation.
Easier said than done though, it takes some time to actually succeed in allowing ur mind to empty.

I agree with this. That's why I do this type of meditation for about 10-15 minutes a day, not much more than that.

If you ruminate about "engaging" with the world a bit, u realize most people "engage" all day and get nowhere right?
The whole day to day zombie slowlane autopilot lifestyle is not really "engaging".
When you achieve silence, you naturally become more aware of everything. That is real engagement.

I disagree with this. Most people are not actively engaged in their life. If people were present, and their mind was focused on their actions, there wouldn't be an epidemic of mental illness.

There's been brain scan studies done to compare experienced Mindfulness meditators vs Empty Mind meditators, and their brain structures were different.
Mindfulness meditators had stronger signal in a certain part of their brain, while empty mind meditators had an even excitation over their entire brain.

This is very interesting. I didn't know that, but in a way it's not surprising. You brain and body responds to repetition.

Here's an excerpt:
For example, a 2004 study of eleven Tibetan Buddhist monks in meditation showed intense gamma wave activity in certain parts of the brain REF. Yet a study of people using a mindfulness form of meditation, also a Buddhist activity, showed alpha activity — at the opposite end of the spectrum to gamma — which was more prominent in the left frontal side of the brain compared to the right REF. In short: two kinds of meditation, both claiming to be Buddhist in nature, yield electrical activity at opposite ends of the spectrum and in similar parts of the brain. A study by Fenwick of a different form of meditation seemed to show electrical changes that resemble sleep REF. Does that mean that meditation is a form of sleep? Yet another study revealed episodic electrical activity that mirrored epilepsy-like patterns REF.

This is interesting because Tibetan Buddhists actually use mindfulness meditation, rather than the empty-mind meditation used in Zen.

The whole philosophy around Tibetan Buddhism is to visualize yourself as the Buddha, rather than the Zen approach which is clear your mind and you will feel the Buddha nature.

My theory is that most people are doing mindfulness wrong.

I REALLY recommend the book Beyond The Mind. It's completely scientific based, and convinced me that Empty Mind meditation is probably what "meditation" actually is.

Sorry, I literally have no time or interest in reading anymore books these days.

The way i meditate is i do Zhan Zhuang. So i stand up and assume a posture and just hold it for an hour. I set it and forget it and don't actively concentrate on anything. I let my body adjust by itself, and thoughts come and go but i don't grab on to them. Every session feels easier to just let go.
After im done i feel energized like a battery at least for little while.

THat's interesting, I haven't heard of this practice before. I think everyone has something that works for them.

d them in Moon in a Dewdrop) have some surprisingly accessible advice on this, too. If I've understood him, sitting zazen isn't about withdrawing completely. It's about finding that paradoxical spot which accepts both involvement and withdrawal.

I understand this. I've studied Zen quite thoroughly, trying the meditation practices and reading scripts and such. But the thing is, you have to spend A LOT of time in zazen meditation to get to this point. Zen monks do sitting meditation for many hours a day, and even they believe enlightenment is unlikely in one lifetime.

Some people have remarkable results for themselves doing this, but I just find for me it's not very constructive. I use it when I need to practice emptying my mind, but I can't do it for hours on end.

EDIT: @luniac I didn't mean to shoot down your book recommendation by the way, thanks for it. I just meant I don't read much anymore, and I have a few books I'm trying to get through right now, so I likely won't end up reading it anytime soon lol. But if I wanna share excerpts from the book with me, feel free to message me anytime!

 

[luniac]

Let me remind everyone, I've been using meditation since I was 17, and I'm 25 now. So safe to say I know A LITTLE about this topic and what works for me.


I agree with this. That's why I do this type of meditation for about 10-15 minutes a day, not much more than that.



I disagree with this. Most people are not actively engaged in their life. If people were present, and their mind was focused on their actions, there wouldn't be an epidemic of mental illness.



This is very interesting. I didn't know that, but in a way it's not surprising. You brain and body responds to repetition.



This is interesting because Tibetan Buddhists actually use mindfulness meditation, rather than the empty-mind meditation used in Zen.

The whole philosophy around Tibetan Buddhism is to visualize yourself as the Buddha, rather than the Zen approach which is clear your mind and you will feel the Buddha nature.

My theory is that most people are doing mindfulness wrong.



Sorry, I literally have no time or interest in reading anymore books these days.



THat's interesting, I haven't heard of this practice before. I think everyone has something that works for them.



I understand this. I've studied Zen quite thoroughly, trying the meditation practices and reading scripts and such. But the thing is, you have to spend A LOT of time in zazen meditation to get to this point. Zen monks do sitting meditation for many hours a day, and even they believe enlightenment is unlikely in one lifetime.

Some people have remarkable results for themselves doing this, but I just find for me it's not very constructive. I use it when I need to practice emptying my mind, but I can't do it for hours on end.

EDIT: @luniac I didn't mean to shoot down your book recommendation by the way, thanks for it. I just meant I don't read much anymore, and I have a few books I'm trying to get through right now, so I likely won't end up reading it anytime soon lol. But if I wanna share excerpts from the book with me, feel free to message me anytime!

I agree with u about the engagement, i meant sort of like most people think they're engaged but they're not really engaged.
If everyone is sick then noone is sick right.

The book actually theorizes that Mindfulness was originally invented as a pathway to the Empty Mind.
Basically mindfulness is not supposed to be the end goal, unlike the way its taught today.

The book mentions several ancient texts specifically mentioning an "Empty" mind, from the Hindu stuff to the Chinese Tao stuff.

It's all good bout not reading the book lol, the website actually summarizes it good enough in the articles.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Upgraded to NOTABLE, tons of discussion and links to different practices.

 

[adiakritos]

Yes but knowing the science shows people the benefits and can help them stay on track.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where can I find that quote from Ray? Also, does it say what type he practices? Just the name will suffice. Thanks.

 

[Ninjakid]

I agree with u about the engagement, i meant sort of like most people think they're engaged but they're not really engaged.
If everyone is sick then noone is sick right.

The book actually theorizes that Mindfulness was originally invented as a pathway to the Empty Mind.
Basically mindfulness is not supposed to be the end goal, unlike the way its taught today.

The book mentions several ancient texts specifically mentioning an "Empty" mind, from the Hindu stuff to the Chinese Tao stuff.

It's all good bout not reading the book lol, the website actually summarizes it good enough in the articles.

Yeah, that's what I got from mindfulness too. You're not really supposed to get attached to the thoughts, you're supposed to be aware of what's going on in your mind, and see yourself as the Witness Behind The Mind.

I think many people practice mindfulness as a form of overthinking and it ends up being opposite of the desired effect. The Tibetan monks probably understand the correct way to practice.

And I definitely agree that having a clear mind is a worthy goal. Every thought brings a person that much closer to anxiety. There's no point of attaining ay worldly success if your mind is constantly clouded in thought.

In fact, I think a person is self-actualized when they're free of worried thoughts, and are able to express their true selves and offer their innermost gifts to the world.

Zhan Zhuang meditation is probably really good because it activates your body as well as clearing your mind, giving you more physical energy to go about your life.

I might check out the book though because it sounds interesting, I'll probably check out the site too!

 

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[luniac]

Yeah, that's what I got from mindfulness too. You're not really supposed to get attached to the thoughts, you're supposed to be aware of what's going on in your mind, and see yourself as the Witness Behind The Mind.

I think many people practice mindfulness as a form of overthinking and it ends up being opposite of the desired effect. The Tibetan monks probably understand the correct way to practice.

And I definitely agree that having a clear mind is a worthy goal. Every thought brings a person that much closer to anxiety. There's no point of attaining ay worldly success if your mind is constantly clouded in thought.

In fact, I think a person is self-actualized when they're free of worried thoughts, and are able to express their true selves and offer their innermost gifts to the world.

Zhan Zhuang meditation is probably really good because it activates your body as well as clearing your mind, giving you more physical energy to go about your life.

I might check out the book though because it sounds interesting, I'll probably check out the site too!

yea man zhan zhuang is awesome, its like standing zen. The physical aspect made me a lot better at my sport cause i learned how to move my body more properly.
It's actually the first step in traditional internal martial arts.

 

[Ninjakid]

yea man zhan zhuang is awesome, its like standing zen. The physical aspect made me a lot better at my sport cause i learned how to move my body more properly.
It's actually the first step in traditional internal martial arts.

This is something I would have more interest in because I'd actually be using my body so like you said, it would improve coordination and make me better at sport.

 

[Ninjakid]

yea man zhan zhuang is awesome, its like standing zen. The physical aspect made me a lot better at my sport cause i learned how to move my body more properly.
It's actually the first step in traditional internal martial arts.

I'm actually forgetting to mention this:

I've had some really trippy moments while doing sitting meditation. I felt like I was accessing different dimensions and leaving my body at times. When I'd come out of it, the world would almost almost seem like it wasn't real, like a dream state.

If I did that everyday for several hours, I'm not sure I would even be the same person...

 

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[jesseissorude]

I started Unscripted this morning (I know, I know ) and in the early chapters, MJ says:

Your soul will resonate its desires or discontent when faced with quiet or minimal distraction.
...
How are you responding to your soul's voice?

That made me immediately think of this thread.
It really feels like people are afraid to be left alone with their thoughts.
I know I fall into that trap.

Action for me: 5 mins meditation every morning to build the habit.

 

[rogue synthetic]

I understand this. I've studied Zen quite thoroughly, trying the meditation practices and reading scripts and such. But the thing is, you have to spend A LOT of time in zazen meditation to get to this point. Zen monks do sitting meditation for many hours a day, and even they believe enlightenment is unlikely in one lifetime.

Some people have remarkable results for themselves doing this, but I just find for me it's not very constructive. I use it when I need to practice emptying my mind, but I can't do it for hours on end.

If you didn't find value in it, it wasn't for you. Forget it, have a nice day, and move on without the ego.

You know. Zen.

Right?

(Consistency in belief and action means more than words.)

 

[azt3k]

What an awesome thread so far!

I'd been vacillating between several articles, quotes, tips and tricks on an optimal mediation practice for some time and finally decided to pick up The Miracle of Mindfulness by Thich Nhat Hanh.

While I must admit I'm definitely a novice when it comes to the actual practice of meditation, a mere few pages into this book and I already have experienced the benefits of some of the simple exercises (like working to synchronize the length of your exhalation with that of your inhalation).

 

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[Matt Dassel]

There might be too much hype on mediation, I believe.

I've come to notice that, in the mind, having laser piercing, sociopathic focus is a very similar experience to meditation when you feel your own breath.

Which is the focus you want to crush it.

But also more likely, is that, Ray Dalio made his money charging fees in the industry rather than beating stock indexes each year.

 

[luniac]

I'm actually forgetting to mention this:

I've had some really trippy moments while doing sitting meditation. I felt like I was accessing different dimensions and leaving my body at times. When I'd come out of it, the world would almost almost seem like it wasn't real, like a dream state.

If I did that everyday for several hours, I'm not sure I would even be the same person...

A mild version of that happened to me when doing the wim hof breathing method, felt like i sort of left my body, but only briefly.

However I do lose track of time when standing, the 1 hour alarm tends to ring when i feel im at around 35-40 minutes.