Tough Decision : Get a Job vs Get a Loan & Keep working on biz

[Stephen G]

Here's my predicament :

I've got an online venture that I'm working day & night on that has SERIOUS POTENTIAL, but will take more time & effort building my audience. However I'm running out of savings....down to my last $5k.

I just got a job offer for a "decent" wage.....though I'd have to show up to a friggin' office 8am-5pm, M-F. My plan was to suck it up for 2 mos and put enough money in my pocket to keep going for another 6-9mos. There's no way I'd last more than 2 mos in a cubicle.

OR -

I can get a loan up to $35k from a peer to peer site. I have good credit & no debt...though taking the loan would create new debt, which sucks, as I finally fixed my credit after years of effort.

So should I suck it up and do the cubicle for 2mos, or take a $25k-$35k loan that will allow me to keep working 24/7 on my biz from ANY location that would last at least 1.5yrs and push the crap out of me to work even harder, as I'd have a loan to worry about, constantly nipping at my heals.

I'm currently MISERABLE where I am. I'm in San Francisco...tired of COLD FOGGY SUMMERS, and all the pretenscious hippy, Prius driving aholes who live & breath political correctness. I just want to get out of here, work from SoCal where it's sunny, hopefully by the beach.

If I took the job, I would continue to be stuck here. If I took the loan, I'd have automatic freedom of location. The only drawback is I'd be putting myself in debt, AND banking on my business to start making headway. As a backup, I used to buy & sell cars from the auto trader in college back in the early 90's. I paid my college tuition that way. I'm thinking I could do a few deals on the side while I continue working on my biz to help payback the loan.

Any thoughts would be really appreciated! I'm supposed to start in 2 weeks and I'm friggin' dreading it! Also, it took me forever to finally get a job...so that's also making me a little nervous, passing it up in favor of a loan so I can leap full forward into trying to make my company work. The "safe" me says "don't go into debt, suck it up and take the job" - the "risky" me says take the loan, buy & sell a few Benz's to help pay back the loan ( at least I'd stay in style ), get out of SF, and try like a mofo to "make it" online with my ventures.

What would you do?

 

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[biggeemac]

lol....funny, you sound like me eight months ago when i was working at uc berkeley. definately understand your frustration with the political correctness. moved to dallas tx.....absolutely love it. good luck.

 

[Trevor Kuntz]

I personally would probably go with the job, but like MJ said (paraphrasing), the only person who can make the decision is you.

 

[Amail]

I vote take the job and avoid debt at all costs.

 

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[mayana]

I would probably go for the job, too, as much as I hate to say it. Keep working on your business in the evenings and on the weekends... it will work out.

 

[TK1]

loan = laziness

 

[Steve W]

In your situation I would find a way to move without taking on the loan. For example why not get a part time job to pay the bills wherever you would like to move to and work on your business in your spare time? You'll be in the environment you want so will be motivated & happy & the money pressure will be off + you won't have sold your soul to some loan shark.

If you stay where you are you will end up hating the job (and yourself for taking it) but will probably still be there in five years time wondering 'what if'.

Move while you are motivated to do so.

 

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[MakeItHappen]

Hey Stephen!
What about making the money hustling?
Well this is what i would do in your sport. Here is a great thread from MJ which might be interesting for you:
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/bu...at-bootstrapping-thread-how-create-money.html

If getting a 9-5 job is fine for your there is obv also nothing wrong with that but if it come to me i just hate to work for others! So i will do anything to avoid that! I have some skills that allow me to source money if i need it which are playing p0ker for a living (doing it for 6 years already ) and building niche sites which he will ether flip or monetize via adsense/amazon and other affiliates (through niche sites will take some time before making you money). So if i would need money i still could do things i like! I wouldn't have to take a job and i really love this kind of feeling! Also doing this kind of stuff you can often make a lot more money than with a9 to 5 job if you are willing to work really hard! Like i said take a look at MJ's thread! 10k a month should be doable if you work hard.

all the best

 

[EastWind]

Get a job, don't touch a loan. If your idea is great, find people to invest their own money for a small slice of the pie.

 

[S197]

The peer to peer loan may not even be an option. Sites like Prosper and Lending Club will require income verification. If you have no job and aren't able to produce some evidence of income, it's likely your loan will be denied or not fund.

 

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[wildambitions]

WOW... I am completely surprised by this thread. These are not your only options. Re-read MJ's book about how to really evaluate your position and "Wipe Your Wind Sheild Clean"!

 

[mayana]

WOW... I am completely surprised by this thread. These are not your only options. Re-read MJ's book about how to really evaluate your position and "Wipe Your Wind Sheild Clean"!

Lol.... yes, I find myself surprised even at myself!

 

[M K G]

The decision is clear...read these replies, NOW do the opposite!

A. Loan ( DOES NOT ) = Laziness to our german friend. If you pay it back and everyone makes their interest, everybody wins, and you just helped the economy. ANY entrepreneur looking for any way to keep their biz alive with any form of cash flow is anything but lazy. For many, having the nudging responsibility of a loan will light a fire under their pants to get things done. Like having Venture Capitalists breathing down your back for results.

B. Notice 97% of the replies are to "PLAY IT SAFE" and take the job. That should tell you right there : do the OPPOSITE of what MOST PEOPLE would do. NEVER follow the heard my friend. If you want to be in the 1-3%, you need to take the RISK that the 97% would not...just read these replies. If you fail, you fail. Go down in flames. That's how you learn. Then you get up and try again, until you get it right. We're humans. We don't learn from pleasure, we learn from pain. We don't grow from playing it safe, we grow from taking risk.

C. You're not going to live 400years, 1000, years, or even 200years. Why even waste 8 weeks being miserable? In 8 weeks, you'll probably make what...$5k? 10k? When you start making $50k-100k per month or per day online, I guarantee you'll pay $20k-$40k to get those 8wks of your life back. Time is the most valuable resource you have. Don't waste a second of it. Take the loan and make it work. If you can't get it, close the door on that option and think creatively. Entrepreneurs think on their feet. Get cards...amex has high limits. Or ask for an increase on your current cards. Do whatever it takes to make it happen. When you're 80yrs old and can no longer move around, you'll be glad you took the risk that you did.

Take that job and you'll get nice & comfy like EVERYONE ELSE, and you'll lose your drive....your hunger that's pushing you to work like a mad man right now. Sylvester Stallone talked about how he made Rocky with Tony Robbins. He had a choice when he was a no-name. If he had taken a job, he would've lost his hunger. Here's the link to the video below. This is for you, as well as everyone on this thread who thinks "playing it safe" and avoiding risk will somehow magically result in a fastlane. NOPE.

Tony Robbins tells Rocky story - YouTube

 

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[andviv]

I am completely surprised by this thread. These are not your only options. Re-read MJ's book about how to really evaluate your position and "Wipe Your Wind Sheild Clean"!

I'd love to hear other options... this is a recurrent problem for people, so providing them with more ideas would be valuable...

other options anybody?

 

[danoodle]

I am also surprised by some of the responses in this thread. Basically there are only two outcomes. Your company will be successful or it won't. How confident are you that it will succeed? If it does succeed, the loan won't matter. If it doesn't then what? Get a regular job? Do you have a backup plan?

There are not only two options!! Also why did you pick that amount for the loan? Could you not take out 10k and move to a third world country and live for a year? Could you live with your parents/relatives/friends crashing on couches for 6 months to a year? How much longer do you need to make this company successful? There are so many unanswered questions but just know it is not get a loan or get a job you hate. You could even work part-time and "get by" for the time being but move to a cheaper locale. Sounds as if you hate SF though, so moving is probably gonna have to happen unless you take the job. Keep in mind there is cheap living in the US as well as we are currently renting a 3 bed 1 bath house for $275 a month. No it is not a crap house. It is Kansas though..

What would you actually be doing to improve your company that would take a year? The actual programming of an app or program on a website? Sounds as if you are doing a lot of it yourself as you are obviously not paying anyone if you only have 5k to your name. Could you use your online skills to make enough money to at least live on? There are people on here doing freelance work and only working 1-2 hours a day to live on so they can pursue their own entrepreneurial endeavors.

Did you know there are people on here that bought clothes at thrift stores and sold them on ebay to get by? Did you know homeless bums even find cans and sell them to recycling centers? Surely you have some skills that could make you enough money to get by...

If you believe in your dream go for it! A guy I went to college with took out his life savings, maxed his credit cards over 50k, and got friends and family to loan him money to open a bar. It's been several years later, and he now owns 4 bars in the town and is purchasing another. Did he regret taking out all that money?

I agree with WildAmbitions, do a review of chapter 24. Do a WCCA or use the WADM tool. Don't feel trapped into only 2 options.

I am also assuming you are single and without kids, but if not, that is another factor as other people's well-being depend on you.

 

[Determined2012]

I was shocked that every one told you to take the route that Millionaire Fastlane repeatedly says should be AVOIDED! Taking the job means taking the Slow Lane! All of the posts I have read in the Fastlane success threads detailed so many different stories of pursuits of Fastlane wealth, and I have not read ONE yet that mentioned ANYTHING about working a 9 to 5...(Granted I didn't read them all)

I was IMMEDIATELY thinking- Believe in yourself, take the big risk, take the big chance, go for your dreams, and your passions.

I was SHOCKED that everyone advised you to play it safe.

I am like the person mentioned above- if you succeed the loan won't matter.

If you work the 9 to 5 your initial plans and ideas may arbitrarily start to fade away due to you working the job and being tied down to that and committed to that.

Not only, if you have worked so hard, and come so far already- you can't throw in the towel now! You have invested and risked so much already. Now is the time to just go balls to the wall.

You have had debt before and paid it off before...It wasn't the end of the world.

I whole heartedly recommend you to take the loan, pursue your goal and work hard as hell to make it happen.

If, by some chance it does not work at least you will know without fail or doubt that you gave it all you got...And THEN if you have nothing left inside of you to give to your dreams, ONLY then should you try to get a 9 to 5 because you have to live and survive at minimum...

As long as you don't hurt or harm others, I say pull out every stop you can, and every trick you have to keep pushing for your dreams.

Life is what you make it, and having (temporary) DEBT is NOT the worst thing that can happen.

But being miserable and losing zest, hope, faith, and focus to pursue the life you dream of and work hard for can feel like the worst thing to happen.

Take the loan, and make us all proud!

This big risk is what can (will) separate you from the ordinary to the EXTRAordinary.

Please go for it, and live with no regrets!!!!!

28 year old, FUTURE FASTERLANER!!!!

 

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[BeingChewsie]

I'd love to hear other options... this is a recurrent problem for people, so providing them with more ideas would be valuable...

other options anybody?

I would move to Phoenix instead of Southern CA at the beach. I lived on the beach in southern CA it is a huge capital eater. Phoenix right now is a renter's market, tons and tons and tons of cheap rentals and rents are falling in many of the suburbs. The only serious expense out here is electricity and that can be handled. He could move here and rent a decent place in a safe neighborhood for $400-$500 a month or so. Maybe even less with a roommate. You can't touch that anywhere in southern CA. Done right his total expenses could be a $1000 a month or less. I don't know what his business is so it is hard to comment on that, but he could likely start some type of small gig here on the side that could make him able to cover his monthly nut. Seriously come here and shop the thrift stores for old cowboy boots to sell on ebay, you'd likely make enough to cover your bills, no joke. When you need to see the ocean, you are a 6 hour drive away. This place can't be beat in terms of cost of living and the weather is damn near perfect.

Sue

 

[JasonR]

I would move to Phoenix instead of Southern CA at the beach. I lived on the beach in southern CA it is a huge capital eater. Phoenix right now is a renter's market, tons and tons and tons of cheap rentals and rents are falling in many of the suburbs. The only serious expense out here is electricity and that can be handled. He could move here and rent a decent place in a safe neighborhood for $400-$500 a month or so. Maybe even less with a roommate. You can't touch that anywhere in southern CA. Done right his total expenses could be a $1000 a month or less. I don't know what his business is so it is hard to comment on that, but he could likely start some type of small gig here on the side that could make him able to cover his monthly nut. Seriously come here and shop the thrift stores for old cowboy boots to sell on ebay, you'd likely make enough to cover your bills, no joke. When you need to see the ocean, you are a 6 hour drive away. This place can't be beat in terms of cost of living and the weather is damn near perfect.

Sue

I wonder if the Phoenix trend here started with MJ's book. I, too, have looked at Phoenix as a possible destination. I'm not knocking it in any way, but maybe it's not for the OP. Either a lot of people recommend or live in Phoenix due to MJ's recommendation, or it's just a coincidence.

That being said, I'm sure there are other cities with the same type of rental market out there. My issues with Phoenix is that's its extremely hot, which I'm not a fan of. I'm currently in Northern California, and it's hot here but not quite as hot as Phoenix and I'm not a fan of the extreme heat. The one thing I really miss is living near the ocean as I did in College at Cal Poly SLO.

However, California is a shitty environment for business. Sure, thousands of business thrive in California, but you do pay more for it. I, for one, and am torn on where I should "settle down" at.

Good luck in your decision!

 

[Stephen G]

Thanks for the replies! Decision made.

Thanks for the replies everyone. It was a tough decision, and here's what I've decided :

I'm not taking the job. The way I see it, I've got $5k in savings. I just called Amex today ( great advice ), and they gave me a $7500 card, so technically I just got $7500 in venture backing from amex ( wink ). I also applied for another card with 0% apr for 18mos. I'm estimating I should get approved for another $5k. All together, I'll have enough to continue for at least another 6 mos. And won't have to pay ANY interest for at least another 6mos-18mos.

I decided not to go with the peer to peer loan b/c the interest was 15%. Believe it or not, credit card companies are offering a better deal...0% interest! I guess they're fighting so hard for your business, if you have excellent credit, you can get approved for 0%....at least for the first year. That's good enough to give my business traction. And give me more time to further develop my "skill set" online.

If all looks bleak in 6 mos, which should be more than enough time to at least give my business a running start as I'm working 24/7 on it, I can ALWAYS go back and find another corporate gig to pay the bills. I've actually gotten quite skilled at job hunting the last few months and selling myself above other candidates, thanks to my entrepreneurial skills. I've gone thru losing a successful business during the dot com bust, ruined my credit ( though I've got excellent credit now ) and I took a corporate job that saved me financially as I was able to pull $120K per year. Unfortunately, this was both a blessing & a curse. Because I was making 6 figures, I fooled myself into believing I was rich. When really, I was merely comfortable. I've found the times where I've been most successful in life is when I've held on and pushed forward. Now is one of those times. 6 figures per year I've realized "looks, sounds, even feels" fastlane. However, 7 figures per year, or per month "IS" fastlane.

Some of my friends can't believe I want to leave SF. Everyone thinks it's beautiful out here, and in many ways it is. However, I like sunshine. It's summer here and it's friggin' cold, foggy, and depressing. I actually drove out to Livermore last week ( 50 miles south of sf where it's 80 degrees! ) slept in my Jeep for 3 days, enjoyed the warm air, mountain views, worked on my biz 24/7, used the free wifi at McDonald's, and got more done in those 3 days, and felt better than ever. My mind was clear and I was coming up with some of the best ideas I've had all year. It also helps that I haven't dated anyone in the last 1.5yrs as I've been determined to make it work online. And I'm someone who use to date 2-3 women at the same time. I look back and laugh at how much time I wasted. Not to mention I stopped watching television a couple of years ago, and my productivity has jumped bigtime.

Since early 2011, I've already gone thru nearly 10 ideas online, 1 succeeded, started making $5k per month, but wasn't sustainable and google shut me down. However my current biz is definitely fastlane, and futurelane ( if there's such a thing )....meaning it's scalable. When I first got online to start my own thing a couple of years ago, I didn't understand the "scalable" part. It is a HUGE FACTOR btw. If you're business isn't scalable, dump it. Find somthing that IS scalable. In any case, after going thru 9 failures, and 1 almost success, now I get it. So I'm going to keep pushing forward....

Having decided not to take the job has put me into even higher gear....I've become a machine. Working on the biz 14hrs, working out 2hrs, finding time to eat & sleep in between. It's another wknd I'm home working on the biz while my friends are out partying it up, but something inside of me tells me I'm on the right path. And yeah, I was totally miserable thinking about taking that job. And fearful of not taking it. However, I realized I can use this fear to propel me & push me to work even harder to make it online. I'm also planning another trip out to livermore, lol...to work out of my jeep for a few days, use McDonald's free wifi. I'm counting that as my summer vacation 2012.

Thanks all for your responses! I really appreciate it!!

 

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[mayana]

Despite what my advice was to you, I am glad that you didn't take the job. I think a lot of people hesitate to offer advice that goes against mainstream - they just don't want to feel responsible for something going wrong (just look at all of the "should I go to college?" threads).

Kudos and BEST of luck to you!

 

[wildambitions]

I think deep down inside that you already knew the answer. And that 5K can go a long way depending on the business you pursue as well as the choices that you make regarding where (and how) you live.

Sue mentioned Phoenix... My husband and I live in New Mexico (talk about a low cost of living). Out here is about as close to living on nothing as one can get AND you can own your home!

Some others mentioned that SoCal was not a good place for business... (you're thinking inside the box). Is it really? What kind of business? Better yet, what kind of business does well in CA or does not have state boundary lines?

@Andviv, I purposely did not offer ideas, that is not my responsibility (and off topic for this particular thread). I am not going to do someone else's due diligence. There are TONS of other articles within this forum alone to "get ideas". I understand that this is a contention for many but lets face it... isn't that part of business Entry?

If there is one thing that I have learned about business over the past few years it is that if it were easy, everyone would be doing it. It can be simple but as I tell my clients, simple is not always easy.

 

[Determined2012]

@StephenG, I'm so HAPPY and excited for you!

Endurance, Persistence, and Determination.

Something my Mom used to say, and my military squad leader: STAY THE COURSE!!!

Keep it up!!!!

Please keep us posted.

 

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[The-J]

You made the decision, and for that, we are all proud.

Now own that decision. Your job now is to make the absolute best out of your decision. Don't waste your time on regrets. Plan and execute, and since you have a loan and no job, time is literally money.

And don't forget: there's more than one way to make money if you need it. Good luck, man.

 

[EastWind]

I hope it works out for you. I personally won't touch a loan unless I knew for a fact there was no way that I could fail. None!
Running lean is cool. If I ever need money, I'm going to be asking for millions.

 

[TK1]

How To Get Rich « blog maverick

 

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[andviv]

I was shocked that every one told you to take the route that Millionaire Fastlane repeatedly says should be AVOIDED!

The reason is simple...

If he were confident and knew what he was doing (which is needed in order to succeed), he wouldn't be asking.

He would be all-in.

No hesitation.

So what do you do when people hesitate? Do you feel confident they can pull it off?

If I tell you, here are my car keys, drive to the airport and pickup grandma, and you hesitate a bit, I would hide the keys right away.

People are giving the "safe" advice cause we perceive the original poster was not ready for other routes at the time.

At least that is how I see it.

 

[The-J]

The reason is simple...

If he were confident and knew what he was doing (which is needed in order to succeed), he wouldn't be asking.

He would be all-in.

No hesitation.

So what do you do when people hesitate? Do you feel confident they can pull it off?

If I tell you, here are my car keys, drive to the airport and pickup grandma, and you hesitate a bit, I would hide the keys right away.

People are giving the "safe" advice cause we perceive the original poster was not ready for other routes at the time.

At least that is how I see it.

Pretty much.

If he had to ask us first, it's pretty evident that he wasn't ready to take the biggest risk.

Plus, TMF never said anything about avoiding jobs; in fact, MJ just posted an article (thanks to Vigilante's post) saying that getting a job is probably some of the best advice you can get.

Either way, I myself am glad that he made a decision on his own. I just hope he ran all the outcomes first.

 

[Stephen G]

Nope...wrong

Nope, you misinterpreted my post entirely...I was going to keep working on my biz regardless. I've been working on it 24/7...getting a job was to keep funding it. My dilemma was taking a job vs taking a loan to acquire additional funds. My inquiry was to find out if anyone else has been in the same situation, and hoping to learn from their success or failures from taking loans vs taking a job.

My companies have always been profitable from the start, so I've not had to worry about funding. However, what does learning from other people's experiences have to do with hesitation or confidence? That makes no sense. Some of the most successful entrepreneurs in the world still stop & ask questions....many have a team of advisors they question daily before making decisions. Are you saying they're not confident either?

Asking others for opinions in waters you've not yet tread is ALWAYS a wise thing to do. Sounds like you're saying you should just put the pedal to the metal, and if you stop and learn from other people's failures or successes, you're not confident. That's a really ignorant way of looking at things.

As for picking up grandma....there are many ways she can get home. It starts by asking the right questions first : when does her flight arrive? which family member is closest to the airport? is there a shuttle service that can get her home quicker? or do we have to bite the bullet, drive thru rush hour traffic both ways, in order to pick her up? Sounds like you don't even want to sit & strategize. You just want to get the keys and go, and if you don't, it means you're going to fail. That's a pretty bleak outlook. And maybe that's how "you" see things ( your quote )....however, that doesn't mean that's how other entrepreneurs see things. We may be a bit more optimistic than that. And asking questions or gather opinions doesn't make you any less confident or hesitant. That's like saying all of those multi-millionaire business owners who go to Tony Robbins seminars must not have a lot of confidence or they wouldn't be hesitating by going to Tony Robbins seminars.

You guys need to re-read my post. There's not a shred of doubt that I'm in biz for the long haul. I've had entrepreneurial ventures since 1990. The speed of the internet, online businesses, coupled with the instability of the economy....you'd be nuts not to stop & ask questions every now & then ~

 

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[futhey]

I can't imagine working a job and doing what I'm doing now. There is no way I could find the energy to create meaningful value in my own business if I were salaried to someone else.

Then again, don't lose your house and end up in the soup kitchen from stubbornness!

 

[andviv]

you misinterpreted my post entirely

Yep, probably. My bad.

what does learning from other people's experiences have to do with hesitation or confidence?

This is an excellent point.

Asking others for opinions in waters you've not yet tread is ALWAYS a wise thing to do. Sounds like you're saying you should just put the pedal to the metal, and if you stop and learn from other people's failures or successes, you're not confident.

I don't recall even thinking that. My point was simpler than that.

Like I said, the "tone" --if such thing can be gathered from writing/reading on a forum-- made it sounds like to me like you were not confident, thus my comment. Apologies for misreading it.

That's a really ignorant way of looking at things.

I guess so.

There's not a shred of doubt that I'm in biz for the long haul.

I wish you the best of luck. In your other post you talked about 9 other attempts/failures and 1 almost success. This sounds to me like you have a very clear understand of what to do next.

Best wishes!