New "User Power" Metric Live (thanks ChatGPT)

[Get Right]

I think this is a great idea to limit noise on the forum. I don't post very often due to wading through large volumes of low value posts. Thank you MJ and thanks to our moderators for keeping this front and center.

 

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[Fox]

Two suggestions:

#1 )If a member has over 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k posts etc they should get a different multiple.

So like 5k = 1.2x normal like ratio, 10k = 1.3x and so on.

This means that you get rewarded for also being willing to make a lot of posts also.
It offsets things for guys who are willing to help on 1,000 different theads. Like @Andy Black or @MJ DeMarco

#2) If after a certain amount of posts a member still has a terrible % percentage, then their posts get a smaller font size.

They have to post like this and not get as much space lol.

Would be kinda funny - but also deserved since they are probably posting absolute nonsense.

(edit - maybe the small font thing would be annoying for others using the forum?
Maybe a time limit where they can't post as often, so they slow down and think more about their posts.
Im talking about a really bad % also, so it pretty clear they aren't adding much value.)

 

[heavy_industry]

Reminder, there's a poll attached here, please vote.



I like it but it is too intricate. The icon needs to render nicely in a 32 x 32 size. That would appear as a blobish color mishmash.

Alright, I'll see what I can create and post some versions in the 32 x 32 format.

In the meantime, here are the @Johnny boy and @Andy Black reactions, which could be used for abusive or helpful posts, respectively.

 

[Antifragile]

The metrics and reaction points have changed again.

After much consideration, I've determined that having a negative reaction (-1, the UGH) is a detriment to the forum creating discord, strife, and contentiousness. The negative UGH has been replaced with the POO icon, which is just neutral. Anyone can use this to show disagreement and it is more of a "fun loving" reaction.

A laugh, HaHa, reverts back +1.

If you think any THREAD or POST is worth GOLD, hit that GOLD button.

View attachment 47877
This is a +3 point.

Here is the new scale.

View attachment 47878

Really like the changes!

Only one comment left: love should be a +2!
I mean it’s LOVE! Haha

 

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[BizyDad]

I think it would lower my ratio.

About 25% of my forum engagement is in PM. When I'm chatting 1-2-1 with someone the max is a 1-2-1 message-to-like ratio.

I suspect I spend too long in the forum, saying the same thing over and over to newbies and boring the longterm members. I'll have to bring out an AndyBot or something. Or just post less.

Andybot would have nowhere near the impact that Andy has.

It's not just that you're saying the same thing to newbies. It's all the newbie lurkers that are reading you say these things that exponentially expands the impact that you have on people's lives.

Don't sell it short.

Post less if you must, but this place will be worse for it.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

@MidwestLandlord - 750% - unfortunately this was a few days before his last post.

I follow him on LinkedIn + Twitter and asked him some years ago what ever happened to him, and he said he'd stop by some time and tell us, but never did.

 

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[Antifragile]

Having some score is more fun than no score at all.

Scoring isn’t everything. It’s just a small indicator of a direction.

Don’t overthink it. But if you post something, you should hope to get some likes. Just like real life, validation or acknowledgement that what you did was somehow valuable to the reader. A reply can do the same thing.

Otherwise it’s like playing tennis with a curtain.

Does it have to be a “perfect” system? Nope. Just change it up every so often to liven up folks on the forum. Look at this thread! Blowing up.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I'd like to get an emoji that represents a VALUE BOMB (+2) but haven't found anything.


The "mind blown" emoji doesn't look very positive. The bomb thing is hard to discern.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Maybe everyone over 500% should get free Insiders membership

Nawwwww how about over 510%?

 

[Andy Black]

Can mods get a facepalm emoji?

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

Quick question MJ — what about changing the formula for User Power to something like:

Likes / sqrt(Posts)

Here’s the idea… we want a rating that takes into account both the QUALITY of contributions (that’s the ratio of likes to posts), AND the QUANTITY, in a single number.

If we have two users as follows:
U1: 100 likes, 2 posts

U2: 10000, 200 posts

Then the current formula says their User Power is equal, ie 50.

But intuitively we know this isn’t quite right, since the quantity of contributions isn’t taken into account.

The new formula takes it into account — it gives 70 U1 and 707 U2, which imo is much more accurate and reflective of both the QUALITY of their contribution AND the QUANTITY.

The way I came up with the formula is by reintroducing the quantity of likes by multiplying L/P * L. Then took the root of it to normalize it, leading to:

L/sqrt(P)

So here’s a few examples:

Kak — 8,992P 41,094L — 4.57 Current
MJ — 35,918P 150,591L — 4.19 Current
Andy — 16,252P 59,588L — 3.67 Current
Myself — 1,497P 4,063L — 2.71 current
Fox — 3,550P 23,945L — 6.74 current
BizyDad — 1,986P 6,689L — 3.37 current

If we order those from high to low, we get Fox, Kak, MJ, Andy, Bizy, Myself.

Here’s with the new formula:
Kak — 433
MJ — 795
Andy — 467
Myself — 105
Fox — 401
Bizy — 150

So the order becomes: MJ (the KING haha!), Andy, Kak, Fox, Bizy, Myself.

I feel this last order is a MUCH better reflection of contributions.

What do you think?

@MJ DeMarco

 

[Fox]

I agree with @BizyDad
The current system is very simple and easy to understand by the users.

• When they post gold, number goes up.
• When they post shit, number goes down.

That's because the system literarily punishes you each and every time you post something. Which means that if you have to post a comment, it better be worth it.

It's the perfect way to discourage spam and have less posts but of higher quality.

Trying to find out the perfect formula is a waste of time. There are too many variables to be accounted for (including how active is the forum at any given time - how many users are there to interact with your posts).

---

But above all else, the whole point of the system is to encourage users to post high quality contributions.

Not to turn this into an elitist community of arrogant keyboard warriors.

The reputation system is just a proxy for estimating value. It's a great addon to the forum experience.

I don't give a shit about likes.

The only thing that matters at the end of the day:

• who have you helped?
• what have you learned from the fastlane forum?

100%.

Any system is going to be open to being gamed. But at the end of the day it’s just a number and only a rough guide.

Anyone going around chasing a few extra points is already massively off track. It’s just lame and defeats the whole point of a forum.

And all the top posters know this already. Guys like Andy and Kak aren’t chasing the likes - they are just doing what they do best.

 

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[biophase]

To be fair my first ever post on this forum was in September of 2022, but I will try and get my post to like ratio up and read more as you said, thank you for your advice, i hope from this point forward we can share a new change of pace in my participation in this forum i never meant to post low value and i have lots to learn, thank you.

PS:

shouldnt this count as a very low value post??

You act like people judge you on a single post. No judgment comes from a series of posts that have no value.

I could post a gif right now and yes, it might not bring anything to this thread but I don’t think anybody would consider it a no value post, but if I post 10 of these in a row over the course of a day, then people would start to get annoyed. I don’t understand how you do not understand this.

 

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[BizyDad]

There's a metric at the forum we're going to start looking at again, sort of as a forum currency.

It's your post to like ratio.

For newbies, the ratio is going to be very low. You'll have more posts than likes until you start dropping posts that are interesting.

If you've been here a year, you should see that ratio inverse. You should have more likes than posts. Minimum would be 1:1.

For example, Mr. Nips here has been around for 18 months+, with a negative ratio of likes to posts. Almost double the post count to like count. You're adding noise to the forum.

MJ is at a 4:1 ratio (4 likes for every 1 post). KAK is right there with you. MJs would be higher if he wasn't the one having to deal with the dipshits all the time. @Andy Black is in this grouping. @AllenCrawley is in this group.

Antifragile 3:1. Bizy is right there with you. @Kung Fu Steve is here.

If you're here a year and you can't hit a 1:1 ratio something's wrong with your posts.

F*cking @Lex DeVille is killing it at 5.5:1. PAY ATTENTION TO HIS POSTS.
@Fox is right there with Lex. You should be following him. @biophase is in this group. @SteveO is chasing this group.

If you are messaging or chatting with people that have been here longer than a year and have a negative post ratio (more posts than likes) you know what you got.

Look at the post ratios as sort of a currency of value added to the forum. Post numbers don't matter nearly as much as percentages. And seriously, if you've been here for years and you can't hit a 1:1 you need to speak less and read more.

This is a metric I pay attention to also. It's how I decide who I follow.

I've noticed that if you have a lot of private messages, that can also bring down the average. Which makes someone like Andy, who I know thanks everybody who follows him, even more impressive, because the most likely he can get on that is 1 per post.

I once heard Lex say something that I have since been referring to as the @Lex DeVille rule. He said before he posts anything, he asks himself if it will that add value to the thread.

I don't always follow the rule myself, but it's a good rule to live by. And his like to post ratio shows it.

@BizyDad We're on the same level

Yeah boy! I've been remiss in not following you sooner.

 

[heavy_industry]

Made it really clear who adds value to the forum.

This is a metric I pay attention to also.

I think I might be able to add that to everyone's postbit ...

YES!

Thank you for adding this! I always used to look at the numbers and do the math to figure out the ratio. It really tells you a lot about the quality of the post you are about to read.

This is one of the most powerful forum metrics. It discourages spam and makes users focus on the signal-to-noise ratio. Quality over quantity. Less text, less scrolling, more quality information.

Now the goal is to become a 5:1 legend like @Johnny boy

I've noticed that if you have a lot of private messages, that can also bring down the average.

Do private messages increase your post count?



As far as I know, private message reactions don't get recorded into statistics. Not sure about the post count from private messages.

But if that's the case, I'm sure removing this would put @Andy Black at a solid 7:1.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Anyways, I don't want to start a big conversation the merits of how MJ created his own scoring system on his own forum. I just thought this is an interesting tidbit of the scoring to share.

Incorrect. However I will probably tweak these to be more accurate. A "Ha Ha" can be both positive, neutral, or negative.

 

[Andy Black]

It will be fascinating to see how these changes affect member behavior.

I remember we even had leaderboards back in the Rep days.

 

[Kak]

I might tweak all of this again, not sure of the software will allow for decimal points. Having a laugh might be worth 1/2.

Laugh is worth at least 1 for camaraderie that keeps people coming back and building friendships. I know you might think that I’m saying that to up my numbers, and I am … But I still think it’s true.

 

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[heavy_industry]

Can mods get a facepalm emoji?

They already have this emoji in their panel, but it's called the "BAN USER" button and doesn't have an icon unfortunately.

 

[heavy_industry]

I agree with @BizyDad
The current system is very simple and easy to understand by the users.

• When they post gold, number goes up.
• When they post shit, number goes down.

That's because the system literarily punishes you each and every time you post something. Which means that if you have to post a comment, it better be worth it.

It's the perfect way to discourage spam and have less posts but of higher quality.

Trying to find out the perfect formula is a waste of time. There are too many variables to be accounted for (including how active is the forum at any given time - how many users are there to interact with your posts).

---

But above all else, the whole point of the system is to encourage users to post high quality contributions.

Not to turn this into an elitist community of arrogant keyboard warriors.

The reputation system is just a proxy for estimating value. It's a great addon to the forum experience.

I don't give a shit about likes.

The only thing that matters at the end of the day:

• who have you helped?
• what have you learned from the fastlane forum?

 

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[heavy_industry]

I believe private message reactions do get recorded. And I believe post count does too.

I ran a few experiments to see what happens:

• private message: does not increase post count
• private message reaction: does not affect reputation

• public message deletion: decreases post count
• public message deletion with reactions: decreases post count and decreases reputation

I had to sacrifice 1 reputation point to run the last experiment.

 

[BizyDad]

1. Does the metric reward people who ask the humble almost inconsequential questions which somehow inevitably spur the older more experienced members of the forum to reply with generous wisdom?

2. Of course Lex has a high score. He’s the embodiment of Marquis de Sade John Wick on the forum.

3. Of course Johnny Boy has a high score. He’s Stifler. We can’t help ourselves, the dude is a giant flaming a**hole funny af.

4. It’s late here, somebody do me a favor and tell me my score. My iPhone is old and I’m sentimental. Landscape is wonky.

5. Competitive people can’t resist a scoring system. It’s practically full proof. I can only see one flaw in the Matrix.

6. Are all funny people equally helpful?

7. I miss y’all but my value is not connected with making money right now. My job is in supporting and respecting and loving the person who does. Still.. Lex’s thread is like a siren song luring me in.. “Try me. Try me. You can make tons of money by selling stuff.”

8. Tempted to discuss Ayn Rand again, but I won’t.

9. Keto and jiu jitsu are life changing. Try them. You won’t be disappointed unless you have a neck injury. Then you’ll be dead.

10. I know you know what I’m doing. I know that you know that I know you’re gonna smash that button anyway. Kisses!

Solid. You're one of the ballers.

 

[Kak]

Motion to ban, and publicly roast, all people that make it to 50 posts with less than 100% ratios.

 

[Panos Daras]

@MJ DeMarco I believe that this metric and its explanation are amazing! And the reason is that it provides a good guideline of what to do and what not to do on the forum. And this comes from someone whose metric is quite low! So in the future for myself, I will focus on the quality of posts instead of quantity to provide more value to the people on the forum.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I've added a POLL if anyone wants to vote, I'm indifferent between how to treat the HAHA metric. I recognize that laughter is important as is friendly banter.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Maybe the trophy emoji?

View attachment 47771

YES!!

 

[Raoul Duke]

How about something like this? "knowledge bomb"

View attachment 47776

"Knowledge Bomb" should be...

 

[Shono]

I once heard Lex say something that I have since been referring to as the @Lex DeVille rule. He said before he posts anything, he asks himself if it will that add value to the thread.

that is a good rule

 

[heavy_industry]

Lex, I think you should probably do a short independent thread talking about this. And maybe that thread should be sticked to that newbies thread every new user is forced to read.

The users that need to read that thread the most, are the least likely ones to actually read it.

No amount of rules, guidelines, or forum gamification will be able to compensate for some people's lack of common sense. There are some cases where forum moderation is the only solution.

If someone doesn't have self-awareness, they are blind to everything that is happening around them.

 

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[TimoS.]

There is a new metric called "User Power" here at the forum which is your ratio of LIKES to POSTS.

I high power rating (100%+) usually means you are a good contributor.

Super high (200%+) usually means great.

Less than 100%, well, you still might be new. AND THAT IS OK.

The point is, if you have 400 posts and have a Power Rating of 23%, something is wrong.

This new feature has been implemented due to suggestions.

This new feature might help you determine who to help, and who to ignore.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE NEW USERS as they initially have 0 scores.

However, if someone has 400 posts and a power score of 20%, you know, you're wasting your time. AND YOUR TIME IS PRECIOUS.

And ChatGPT was instrumental in making it happen, in helping me expose the code to get it done quickly.

Some of the posts below where MOVED from various threads when this was discussed.

SOME NOTES:

• Older users who haven't visited the forum in YEARS will have terrible scores due to forum platform changes.
• This metric is only available on full screen viewing, mobile users will not see it.

Low value posts like this just earned you moderation.

Going forward, any thing you post will need to be approved by a moderator. Based on your post history, this means likely nothing you post will make it to the live forum unless your post behavior changes.

You're welcome to stick around to read and learn, or better, learn to ask better questions.

If you are a teenager please understand this is a forum for adults who are dealing with some real problems, real goals, and real hardships. Time is important and sifting thru empty posts like the one quoted doesn’t help broader users.

Great new feature!

I am also new to this forum but I try my best to deliver value and help other members just like this forum helped me.

I am of the opinion that the new User Power will help a lot of new members to decide who they can trust here by seeing which members have a high like-post ratio.

Best regards!