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RANT How deep does this "FAKE GURU" market actually go?

Discussion in 'Chat Scripted Dogma/Indoctrination' started by TreyAllDay, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:26 PM.

  1. SteveO
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    SteveO Legendary Contributor FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    I spend time examining belief systems almost every day. I don't spend any time evaluating gurus. Keep keeping us on track...
     
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  2. MTF
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    MTF Never give up Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    Fake gurus are one problem, and the general low-quality of online content is another.

    You look for information how to start a business, you get an article written by a freelance writer who "researched" the topic and wrote an article based on somebody else's article based on somebody else's article. You surely know a lot about business just because you wrote fifty listicles for business websites (this applies to big publications like Forbes, too).

    You look for nutritional advice, you get regurgitated advice from freelance writers who did their "research" by googling other similar articles. I feel like throwing up when reading another BS article with the same fitness myths that were debunked three decades ago.

    You look for advice on how to invest, you get advice from a guy who's a finance freelance writer - not an investor. Yeah, tell me how to invest money in the stock market while you don't even have a brokerage account.

    Quora is a perfect example of this, too. People posting there aren't freelance writers, but their articles are written in the same way - based on something they learned by googling it. But I guess that people feel good reading something they already know about - it makes them feel smart and is comfortable (like listening to a song you've already heard hundreds of times before).

    I find it harder and harder to find solid how-to content written by an expert. More and more often, articles are outsourced to freelance writers who don't grasp even the basic fundamentals. But they're good at copying and pasting (while making sure that they use different words) and their rates are affordable, so it's all good, right?

    I'm curious: when was the last time you read a truly original piece of content? I feel like at least 80-90% of stuff I'm reading nowadays is something I've already read before.
     
  3. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    This is true - I follow Entrepreneur.com and YoungEntrepreneur.com and I swear 90% of the advice is written by people who have no clue what they are talking about.
     
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  4. rogue synthetic
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    rogue synthetic * Not actually Rutger Hauer Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    It's almost always when I read a book that was published more than 30 years ago.

    Which is where I try to spend most of my reading time these days.
     
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  5. MJ DeMarco
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    MJ DeMarco Raving Lunatic Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    Same thing goes for financial dogma...

    Not sure how many more times I need to read about how saving $10 a week for 50 years is going to make you rich. Every. Damn. Week.
     
  6. MTEE1985
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    MTEE1985 Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Dammit MJ, I couldn’t help myself and googled “Save $10 a week” now I have a headache...and also a solid plan to retire with thousands of dollars to my name by the time I’m 65!
     
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  7. MTF
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    MTF Never give up Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    And it's a shame, because people who are new to entrepreneurship don't know yet how to discern between legitimate and BS advice. I guess that's why it's so lucrative to be a fake business guru. Easy to sell the dream to people who don't know any better.

    Yes, I've found it to be the case, too. I need to change my reading habits. It's easier to find new books to read, but you can find more value in the minds of people who lived before the era of Internet and didn't have access to thousands of articles all saying the same thing. They had to be creative themselves and come up with original ideas.
     
  8. Andy Black
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    Andy Black Any colour, as long as it's red. Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    We hear this line a lot. I have to disagree.

    For many people, teaching is a calling.

    Teaching is also a separate skill from the subject matter you’re teaching, and it’s bloody hard work teaching people so they “get” it.

    The biggest satisfaction is getting people to the point where they can go it alone. This isn’t just about helping them gain technical skills, but also the confidence and mindset to get started, and keep going.


    Me personally, I like doing, and I also like helping other people learn too.

    Not just Google Ads, but helping local teenagers pass their Maths exams, helping forum members with whatever they’re stuck on, helping friends and family out with whatever they’re stuck on.

    You might know me as “The AdWords Guy” in TFLF.

    I’m “The CV Guy” and “The Maths Guy” to nieces and nephews.

    I like to leave breadcrumbs where I can (the latest example is the “Paid email newsletters” progress thread). This gives me more clarity, and helps other people. Tbh, it doesn’t matter if no-one read it or followed. I’d do it anyway.


    People have bought my course and got value from it.

    It bothers me a bit that I haven’t pushed the course more and helped more people.

    Part of the reason why I haven’t is because I don’t want to do any personal branding outside of TFLF, but the main reason is I haven’t figured out how to do it and not need a shower afterwards.

    Not yet anyway.



    Here’s a few lines I bear in mind when figuring out who’s full of BS and who’s not:

    “Tell me what you’ve done and I’ll tell you who you are.”

    “People listen to experts, they follow leaders.”

    Follow people who are DOING, heading in the direction you want to go, and who (intentionally or unintentionally) leave breadcrumbs behind.
     
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  9. Andy Black
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    I find this really interesting (and thanks for the shoutout).

    We all start with and have a personal brand. “Diesel and coffee” is what gets the ball rolling. Once the ball is rolling then I think we should build brands that aren’t related to our personal brand.

    I believe that if you’re still operating off just your personal named website then you’re a freelancer or consultant rather than a business owner.

    I’m nuking andyblack.net and will make it a short bio site, like my Linkedin profile (which no longer says I’m a “Freelance AdWords Consultant” either).

    I want to build brands that aren’t personal ones.
     
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  10. MTF
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    MTF Never give up Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    A hundred percent.

    As an entrepreneur, I'm tired of articles (probably written by freelance writers) emphasizing how important your personal brand is. What happened to good old brands that you buy simply because they offer great services or products? Do you want your costumers to read about you or your product and the results it can generate for them?

    Moreover, if you have a personal brand business, good luck selling it (I know this painfully well). If you can't sell it because it won't run properly without you, it's more of a career than a proper business.

    As a client, I'm tired of it, too. I don't care who's the CEO of Logitech. I don't care one iota about his "personal brand." I don't want to subscribe to a blog about their products or read about their employees. All I care about is that I bought their mouse and it's the best mouse I've ever used.

    Building a personal brand can make entrepreneurs focus on the wrong thing. It's not about you - it's about what you can do for the client. You don't have to share what you had for breakfast and plaster your face all over your website because they say that people buy from people. It's what you offer that counts, not who you are.

    First and foremost, people care about themselves. I'd rather buy a great product from a "faceless" company than an average product from a "personal brand."
     
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  11. Andy Black
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    Amen.

    Now where’s that “What’s the current gold rush?” thread so we can add “personal branding” to it?
     
  12. MTEE1985
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    MTEE1985 Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    100% agree. Another way to look it at it is to study and follow wisdom. Not intelligence. There are many highly intelligent “gurus” in the world but very few who are wise.
     
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  13. Dunkafelics
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    Dunkafelics Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    We all are susceptible to fancy and shiny things when they are put in front of us, I've been guilty of it in the past and I am sure you have been too.

    I've got a ton of programs and courses that I've purchased over the last 6 years and guess what?...

    It's a learning experience and one that I have grown from.

    Yup, there have been a few that didn't pan out as much as I would have liked... oh well, moving forward.

    So take control and put barriers in place that will ensure a product is right for you. Hal Elrod gave a group of us an awesome sequence to go by when determining to buy a product:

    1. Start with Google - do a search on google for your selected topic (or outsource the research if you can)
    2. Check the Fastlane Forum - my personal touch to this, you can probably find some excellent information and/or an individual who can help you along the path.
    3. Read a book or listen to an audiobook on the topic - There is no excuse these days for not picking up a book and reading it 15 minutes a day or listening to an audiobook. You can literally get almost any book at a click of a button for less than $30 bucks.
    4. Buy a course on the topic - VET THE PROGRAM in that you need to check reviews and ensure that there is a guarantee in place that you can get your money back, no questions asked if it is not for you. Ask yourself what are your expectations for taking the course and what would be considered a win?
    5. Choose Your Own Adventure - if you've done a program and you got a high amount of value out of it, take another one. If you believe that this person can help you get to the next level of this specific topic then seek out further training. By this point, you should be taking a ton of action and looking to apply what you have learned so far.

    Be selective and calculated about how you approach these things.

    Ultimately, it is 100% our responsibility in making these decisions
     
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  14. Dunkafelics
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    Dunkafelics Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Book sucks... got it.

    The rest of your argument... meh.

    Tony Robbins has a ton of great content and his live events are something to experience.

    I challenge you to read Awaken the Giant Within and if you don't get anything out of that book, I'll give you $20 bucks for it.

    Dan Lok does have some great material and his flagship book is decent.

    The one frustration I've had with him is that his High Ticket Sales program is being sold for $2500 dollars. Basically, if you don't buy into his program on the webinar he believes that you will never be successful because you don't have the gusto to take risks in your life.

    That didn't sit well with me, but he still has some decent information.
     
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  15. GoGetter24
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    Not only that, he implies you'll end up working as one of his "high ticket closers", but almost no-one does (so I've heard).

    The thing I respect about it though it that it's inherently honest. He's showing you his no-holds barred, effective sales tactics in his selling to you. So even if you don't buy anything (which I haven't), you can observe what he's doing.

    And again, I don't see the high price points like $2500 as being wrong: they're actually inspirational. If he's commanding those rates, he should be paid attention to. Primarily I think it's insightful regarding marketing. He said he's been slow grinding his YouTube output for years now, with this kind of end in mind (the broader the reach the wider the funnel and the higher you can push the price point). Grinding for years to reach the next income level? And doing it? The guy even started posting videos recently where he buys random really expensive stuff with his wife for the sake of unboxing it and showing how rich he is. The guy started from nothing and is now rolling in cash. It's worth paying attention to: but always at a "zoomed out" level, not taking everything at face value.
     
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    SquatchMan Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I hate that stuff and tune it out. The whole paid mentoring, money making courses, and business courses thing just doesn't resonate with me. Maybe it works for some people. I don't know.

    It also doesn't seem entrepreneurial to take a course on how to start a business. I doubt Mark Cuban, Elon Musk, Wayne Huzienga, John Rockefeller, Mitt Romney, Richard Branson, [insert: any successful entrepreneur] took a seminar on making money before starting business #1.
     
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    I didn't think the book was that great either. I've heard MJ use it as a good example of a) the get started early in investing and wait 30 years to be wealthy slowlane crap, and b) the author talking about wealth building tools that he doesn't use himself.

    Although, I think Tony gave a lot of, if not all, his profits from that book to his charity Feeding America. He's big on raising money for that. I give to Feeding America every year. It's one of the highest ranked charities in the US.
     
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  18. MTF
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    Interesting observation. I'm pretty sure that some successful entrepreneurs took courses and read books, but it's probably true to some extent that the most successful ones listen more to their intuition than to other people.

    If you limit yourself to advice given by others, you don't come up with your own ideas. You're just repeating what everybody else is doing, and that's how goldrush business models are created.

    A guru can tell you "nah, this won't work" but it won't work according to them and their limited experience (a direct response marketing guru will tell you that it's the best business model ever, a SaaS business guru will tell you that software is the way to go, and a blogger guru will tell you to produce more content).

    Because so much information is so easily available today, we stop looking for answers within us. Businessmen in the past couldn't sign up for a new course on how to launch a factory. They had to listen to their gut and learn through experience.

    Many modern entrepreneurs don't want risks. They don't want to start anything without first learning everything there is about it (and wasting time learning something that currently doesn't apply to you anyway). They want to "validate" their business ideas, even if there's already an existing market paying for a similar solution.

    I'm writing this to myself, too, as I definitely spend too much time researching things instead of coming up with my own ideas.
     
  19. Ray Goslin
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    Fake Gurus selling to Fake people. You can get rich quick, but you can't get rich easy. It takes work. If it were easy to get rich easy, everyone would be rich. The Guru's are selling people what they want, not what they need. It's buyer beware. Don't shift blame to the guru's, take responsibility for your own actions. Most of what they teach (common sense) works, however almost everyone who buys how to products don't IMPLEMENT it. It's been around for ever and will always sell. Like Dan Kennedy says "Become the Wizard, and beware of the Wizard".
     
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  20. Andy Black
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    The unseen danger of consuming other people’s content and opinions is you no longer hear your own thoughts.

    I had a paid chat with a business coach a couple of years ago.

    My biggest takeaway was when he told me:

    “You don’t need to be on any lists brother. All you need is within you now.”

    Sometimes you already know what to do, and just need to do it.


    When you get stuck, maybe ask yourself “What would Richard Branson do?”
     
  21. JasonEP
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    The guru rabbit hole goes deep. Anyone willing to lend their name out in order to sell something helps contribute. As was said in here earlier, Mark Cuban isn't creating guru courses. That being said, he is willing to sit down and use Tai Lopez's platform to sell products "build his brand". This helps gurus.

    As a general rule I don't ever buy anything from anyone who had made a great deal of their wealth selling seminars. This to me is the biggest indicator of a guru. I don't care how good they are at everything else, if they have made their money through seminars I will not purchase anything from them. An example is Grant Cardone. I actually like Grant for what it's worth. He did an interview with London Real recently where it was the first time I felt like I was hearing from the real Cardone and not the cheesy caricature of himself he always puts on. That being said, he always tells people that to get rich they need to be in sales, and when pressured to reveal what he was selling, it wasn't cars like he alludes to; it was seminars. His mentor was a seminar salesman. It's guru junk. Hell, his main business is a sales training program......that he doesn't even put his own employees through. Its guru crap.

    I do not believe "Those that can't do, teach". I don't think this is correct. Plenty of people love teaching. But if you are teaching because you love it, it's because you have actual knowledge to teach and are charging prices that make sense. There are plenty of people that teach local courses or "seminars" (actual seminars) and give actual information to paying customers. In these cases, the customer is charged a fair price and walks away from the seminar with more knowledge than they came in with. Another version of actual teachers is true mentorship. Someone that is doing something everyday and letting you come along and help them while teaching you why and how to do what they are doing.
    On the other hand, if you are Sam Ovens, you're not knowledgeable in the field you are "teaching". So you aren't actually helping anyone, and you are charging them out of this world prices for literally nothing. This is an example of the "those that can't do, teach" guru.

    To find people that aren't gurus you need to find people that are actively working in the field you are working in. They need to be recently retired and teaching what they know to fill their time, or currently doing what they are teaching and only teaching as a side hobby. If teaching it via seminar is their full time job/business just assume they are a guru. It may not always be true, but in general this is a good way to weed out the crap.

    Tony Robbins has 6+ versions of his seminars. All of them are in different fields with different focuses. Nobody can be an expert in 6 different fields. If you want to really "invest in yourself" do not spend $6500 (yes literally) on a ticket to Tony Robbins' Date with Destiny. Whether or not you think college is a scam, the type of people that will spend this much to learn their life's purpose at this seminar would be way better off spending this same money and getting an associates or even bachelors degree (if they get aid) with this same amount of money. Then they have at least learned something applicable and truly invested in themselves.

    If there is any sort of motivation and finding purpose attached to something you are looking to buy, it is also a guru course.

    I'm torn on how I feel about the gurus though. I feel that it is wrong that they are taking advantage of people desperate to turn their lives around and willing to pay money for the information to get them on the right path. On the other hand, I don't know if I should feel bad because the types of people that fall for these guru scams are usually the people looking to get rich quick and without any hard work. They are trying to shortcut. They don't deserve to get ripped off, but most of them would be willing to adopt the guru tactics and rip others off. So I don't know.

    The people that fall for gurus are also prevalent in the real estate investing community. When I first found bigger pockets I was thinking of all the competition there would be in real estate investing, but the more time you spend on there you realize that hardly anyone there looking to learn would be competition. They don't care about real estate, they just think it is an easy way to get out of working. Their very reasoning for wanting to get into real estate (not working/passive income) is exactly what is going to keep them from ever buying a rental property.

    While business/entrepreneurship is a huge guru factory, things like personal finance and fitness are also ripe with guru garbage. There are 1000 personal finance books with more coming out everyday written by random people with no savings. Like MJ said, its all about compound interest bs. All the personal finance bloggers out there run out of content quickly, because there isn't much at all to teach. Save a portion of your paycheck every pay period, invest a portion of your paycheck every pay period, have an emergency fund, and cut down on needless spending. That is literally all 90% of people need to know about personal finance, but they can't sell you anything on that. So they become motivation gurus as well and to keep their blogs up they need to sell more stuff, so you get motivation and speculation tips.

    Fitness industry is the same exact thing. Want to lose weight? Eat less calories than you burn. That is all 90% of people need to know, but they can't sell you on it. So they add motivation, diet plans, workout routines, supplements etc. Advice that isn't even correct (like tips about spot reduction) Just like weight loss, weightlifting is the same, want to bulk up? Let me give you all the supplements, routines, diet plans, motivation, and tips that aren't even correct. Its all guru garbage.

    So yes, guru rabbit hole goes deep and across many industries. My concern is whether or not people buying guru courses are actually getting ripped off. They are trying to take shortcuts, and are usually willing to rip off others. Maybe they just get off on the motivation they receive by purchasing the guru courses. Maybe the gurus and customers deserve each other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018 at 5:07 PM
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  22. miraman
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    Any rants about the real estate wholesaling guru webinars?
     
  23. JasonEP
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    Hahaha how about every one of them?

    Wholesaling real estate might be the biggest guru scam of them all. Wholesaling is something that can very well make people a lot of money. But those people are people with DEEP industry knowledge and YEARS of experience in a very specific market. They must also have a Rolodex stuffed with so many contacts that it is the size of a car tire.

    That is one thing I also write off immediately. I don't know of anyone online claiming to be a wholesaler that ever actually made any money, and when they claim to be a wholesaler you can assume they aren't. Everyone on bigger pockets claims to be one. It is like the entrepreneur guru scam, where now everyone you meet is a "social media marketer/affiliate marker".

    The only wholesaler I ever met that made money was someone I met through a family member of mine, this family member actually is a successful real estate entrepreneur. The wholesaler he used had worked for decades in the commercial real estate market in southern GA/northern FL markets. He worked at a REPE firm and after he quit he had more contacts than he knew what to do with. It was very little work for him to have deals come across his inbox that he could easily get and sell to others. He wasn't do it to raise money, he was doing it because it was very easy work in retirement because of his experience and network.

    The whole mini-industry around wholesaling courses is an oxymoron. It is all about "investing in real estate with no money down!" That is how it is pitched. Investing with no money is an oxymoron. "Investing by wholesaling" is an oxymoron. Investing is putting your money into an asset that you now own that makes money so your money works for you. If you aren't investing any money, and don't own anything, and are constantly hustling to find deals to sell, you haven't invested at all.

    Wholesaling is like Real Estate Investing as a career. It can't be your first career, you must have built up knowledge and a network for wholesaling. And REI requires money, so you can't start your career in investing with no money to invest.
     
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  24. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I think this is important - one of my mentors told me once to take pieces of things that work for you, I think most people don't see it this way unfortunately. I was a big Grant Cardone fan and then he started talking about how network marketing is a good start and I just couldn't listen to him again. But when you put it in perspective - on the "guru" side I think you really do just have to take pieces of what works for you.
     
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  25. KeithWallace
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    KeithWallace Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    Wow. This one paragraph has made it worth reading through this entire thread. Brilliant.
     
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