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RANT How deep does this "FAKE GURU" market actually go?

Discussion in 'Chat Scripted Dogma/Indoctrination' started by TreyAllDay, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:26 PM.

  1. DVU
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    I "got" my hands on a lot of this thousand dollar plus courses and tbh its nothing special. There is no secret.

    Suprise surprise.

    And as a lot of people here said, its just rehashed content over and over. But hey, if you can repackage the same sh*t into 10 different packs, its 10 different shits with good sales copy.

    After a while, you will realize that the only thing standing between you and "success" is doing it.

    No book, course or coach is going to get you there.
     
  2. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    This is what I think I'm realizing. Aside from what they SAY they've done, I've NEVER heard of these guys for anything but these courses. Tai Lopez said he made millions in various businesses, this Gary Vee guy I can't stop hearing about owns a huge "National Marketing Consulting" firm with global clients, I've never heard of these guys except for their courses they are selling.

    Has anyone heard of Sam Ovens? I'm seeing his crap non-stop, never heard of the guy and apparently he's some Forbes-ranked (makes me wonder if this Forbes list can be bought) multi millionaire.

    And they want to teach people how to be better social media consultants and trade their time for money? What about barriers to entry, time separation, automation? Such a joke lol.
     
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  3. eliquid
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    eliquid ( Jason Brown ) Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    At the end of the day,

    There is a lot of things going on for a lot of different reasons.

    We won't be able to pin it down.

    1. Some products priced at $3997 are worth it, some aren't ( speaking about value here )

    2. You can't judge your middle by someone else's beginning ( or end )

    3. What you happen to know as common, someone else doesn't know at all

    4. $3997 is either too much for you, just within reach, or easy for you to fork over

    5. Everyone is willing to pay to save time, money, or reduce/exclude pain

    6. People buy stories. Logical people buy action/direct tips/help ( us ) but there more normal people than logical people, so stories ( rehashed content ) is easier to "sell" because there are more of those people.

    7. You can fight all day for a unique advantage and "moat", but someone is going to come along and rip off your UVP and moat. Once that happens, more copy cats see it and copy it. After a while your UVP and moat no longer matter. It's just a matter of when, not if. Did you make enough "hay while the sun shined" or not? This turns into a constant battle of coming up with more and more UVP and moat to stay ahead. It's a "keep creating new blue oceans" almost when it happens. Everything has a season.

    8. There is no intrinsic value on information. What you teach me is only worth what I am willing to pay. You can say this is worth $10,000 because you normally charge that to others, but it is only worth what I willing to pay since there is no intrinsic value on it. Only once I pay, can I determine really if it was worth it or not based on what I paid you. This skews what value is as a whole.

    9. Because of how our minds work, we shortcut a lot of our decisions making skills in life every day. One of the shortcuts is that a higher price dictates higher quality. But also see #8 above.

    10. Almost no one knows me in the real world compared to say Tai Lopez. However, I bet I know more about PPC than most PPC consultants in the world and I know more than Tai. However, should that prevent me from charging $3997 for a course in PPC? A lot of people would say yes because they havent seen what I have done before and they don't know me. However, my course would prob teach you more about the business of PPC than others and be worth $3997.. but again see #8.
     
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  4. MTEE1985
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    MTEE1985 Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Check out his books, he took his parents liquor store to a $60,000,000 business before he starting his marketing firm.

    I’m not saying dive headfirst into anything he’s selling, but he knows his sh*t and outworks 99.99% of people.
     
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  5. dzackb3l
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    dzackb3l New Contributor I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    Oh yeah! Sam Ovens, almost fell for that one about 2 years ago when he first started popping up all over my YouTube videos and FB feed. But I have some sort of built-in social filter, if someone doesn't make it through, there is always something shady about him. Just like when MJ doubts somebody and then that somebody gets uncovered.

    Gary Vee at least has some books and free podcasts. But again, does it really add value?! I don't know - After reading MJ's books, I just don't know if I can find somebody who would appeal to me anymore.

    But one that we haven't mentioned yet and is REALLY REALLY REALLY killing me, is Dan Lok :rofl: specially in a video where he's in the back seat of a Bentley with an amateur Green Screen, to make it look like the car is moving... Oh Gosh! So much noise in this GURUs world.

    MJ is right, they make money by faking that they have money then they start investing to generate more income - It probably is DEEPER than we can never imagine. My current solution is to MUTE all that crap and stick to the CENTS to make CENTS!
     
  6. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    This is what I stick to or try to. I often have to step out of my own head and realize a lot of the time I am looking at these guys for inspiration when things get hectic, but you don't need it to be successful - just stick to the basics.

    Dan Lok??? never heard of him but you have piqued my curiosity lol.
     
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  7. dzackb3l
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    dzackb3l New Contributor I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    Oh crap! I shouldn't have... LOL! But if you would like a break and laugh a little bit, you can watch one of his promotional videos!
     
  8. Xeon
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    Xeon Nessuna macchina per me se non una Pagani Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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  9. dzackb3l
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  10. MTEE1985
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    MTEE1985 Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I’m relistening to some of Kung fu Steve’s stuff and he hits it on the head. Most coaches or “gurus” sell themselves on their way being the best way and only way.

    A good coach will challenge you to find the best way yourself. At the end of the day the “guru” who prompts YOU to take action and motivates YOU is the best one.
     
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  11. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Man... that is painful.
     
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  12. Kung Fu Steve
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    Kung Fu Steve Platinum Contributor Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    Sure are a lot of belief systems in this thread :smile2:
     
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  13. Fox
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    If people aren't going to go to Uni and they aren't willing to take any courses then you are going to spend 5-10 years just figuring out the basics on a lot of stuff.

    People are mixing together obviously BS gurus with highly valueable educational courses.

    Imagine you are a smaller business owner during the bootstrap stage:
    Fix your marketing and advertising > photoshop course
    Take better product and service images > photography course
    Tell a better company and back story > writing / persuasion course

    You could find all of these (and lots are really well done) on sites like skillshare or udemy for around $20.

    Same goes for SEO, Adwords, Video Marketing, Youtube Ranking, Copywriting, Product Creation, Color Theory, Packaging, Customer Service, and so on.

    "And all courses are bad" mentality is like saying most food is bad you will stop eating. Yes you have shady gurus that 90% of people will buy off but you also have tons of reasonability priced authentic courses that will show you how to get a huge edge on your competition.

    People are always going to want to learn from experts. As universities become even more of an overpriced joke the market is going to explode. Learn to figure out what courses are worth it and use those (if you need to) to move ahead.
     
  14. miraman
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    My 2 cents. This gurus get wealthy from all the newbies who are hoping to be rich but haven't been scammed yet, and they don't do any investigating before they buy a program. They are sucked in by eloquent speakers who make them envious with their flashy cars or whatever.

    I would buy a program that I think could help me but every freakin "webinar" has the same systematic approach and the same $497 or $997 price tag that just comes off as same old, same old, to those who have been around. And you can never just buy the program for that price, there's always an upsell that makes you feel like; well, what the hell am I getting for a thousand bucks then if I gotta spend more?? Ya know. It's so unethical I hate it all.
     
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  15. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I guess it also depends the type of learner you are. I took 2 years of acounting + online after university courses in accounting and still didnt grasp it until I dove into it myself for my business.


    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
     
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  16. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Seems like the feel I am getting from this thread, and my experience, is courses are fine - uprading skills you need on udemy for example. But these hyper-reality gurus with extra big persoanlities seems to be the red flag.

    Come to think of it - I've taken some incredible online (even free) courses from people I've never even heard of nor can I remember.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
     
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    The other day I was feeling risky so I acted on a Tai lopez ad for a new program he was offering. knowledge society or something. For a low price point he will give access to inside information and education on several niches sort of like a netflix for niche learning. Just pick a topic you want to learn about and boom you have access. I thought i'll bite, maybe I can learn something or find a niche that I can get excited about.

    After declining about 15 upsells before I finally got to my product that I purchased. I click on a subject I wanted to learn about. So what was it? Instead of learning or teaching it was just another advertisement to get me to buy the full course on that topic. So I tried a different subject. Same thing. So basically I am paying a monthly fee to let him advertise programs to me. Unbelievable. Of course I cancelled, which was surprisingly easy.
     
  18. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Hmmm. A peek on the inside of these programs. Thanks for sharing.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
     
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  19. focusedlife
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    I think he's nailed it.

    It's been reinforced for me by other folk's observation and my own experience.

    One of the models that folks espouse is teach'em what to do, maybe not HOW to do it, but even if the how is taught, you can still sell them the EASIER way to do it on the back end (this includes DONE FOR YOU or some sorta SAAS tool, perhaps).

    It's an old take on moving the freeline.

    Do what you must, but realize, MOST of the stuff out there is repositioned, repolished, rehashed stuff that isn't new, per se, but is new to you, maybe.
     
  20. Martin Boeddeker
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    This nailed it absolutely!

    This post explained it really well:

    From Personality Cults to Collective Intelligence: The Democratization of Education Online

    There’s a major shift occurring in the world of small business education, coaching, and training.
    One group of bloggers, content marketers, and educators have gone on to start self-funded software companies. Another group has moved toward building agencies and practices that deliver precise execution and hands-on support.

    A third group is saying, “It’s just not working anymore.”

    Those that say “it’s not working” are largely those who have relied on personality-driven brands and the development of the online course market. This market developed out of a desire for education to be accessible to the masses. Unfortunately, what was envisioned and sold as a democratization of business education has become anything but. The premium personality brands peddle their wares with the help of mobs of fawning affiliates while aspiring personalities aim to get a small piece of the pie.

    This third group has employed the “gatekeeper model” — which thrives by sequestering “the good stuff” behind a paywall. The reason they’re experiencing diminishing returns is simple…

    The rest of the market has already moved away from gatekeepers and towards the Access Economy.
     
  21. GoGetter24
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    GoGetter24 Silver Contributor Speedway Pass

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    That's the crazy thing though. I've probably read more money-negative sentiments on this forum (from low ranking members of course) than any other content outlet or discussion space. I wonder what dynamic is at play there. Like, people wanting to go where the message is "you can get rich" just to sh*t on it for ego-massaging everything-is-futile self-indulgence purposes.

    That Dan Lok guy, who I was actually introduced to by someone here (thanks whoever it was), is a clear cut case of a self made man. And he lays out the entire deal:
    • Was poor when young.
    • Kept borrowing money from family & friends to start businesses and failing them.
    • Then deliberately sought out a highly successful older mentor in the space he was targeting, either outright paying them for internship/mentorship, or by giving gifts.
    • Stopped screwing around with random businesses and targeted a core skill: copywriting. Did that until he got north of $10k/month (active income).
    • Worked like a dog, didn't chase after chicks (just picked one girl and stuck with her), didn't drink and waste time with friends.
    • Then moved into marketing generally & digital products.
    • Then diversified out into business & consulting generally.
    • Then the guru stuff.
    None of that trajectory looks off what can be achieved by someone doing the same thing he did: identifying (or being shown due to his much older & wiser mentor's) a trending growing demand for a skill(today it might be something like machine learning or data science), marketing it & contracting/freelancing it, getting his rate high, then hiring others and building passive income products/services to raise time-decoupled recurring revenue, then using the money to continue expanding marketing efforts, products, businesses, etc.

    None of that is rocket science or fake. That's how most people have succeeded.
    Apprentice. Journeyman. Master.
    Qualified guidance. Build skill. Market. Raise rates. Start productizing. Retain earnings. Use revenues & freed up time to leverage. Spiral it upwards.
    Many working for one. Few working for one. One working for one. One working for few. One working for many.
     
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  22. Kung Fu Steve
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    Kung Fu Steve Platinum Contributor Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    I think it's just a misinterpretation.

    This forum started (not to put words in mouths) because people were sick and tired of the bullshit.

    Someone we all know wrote an incredible book on business... with none of his own ideas... because they were stolen from a-now-friend-of-mine... and he claimed he was rich when he started giving advice...

    Then our good friend MJ came out with a brilliant question "What came first, your book or your black card?"

    It got people to start asking a REALLY good question: "Should I dedicate all of my time and energy on advice that this person isn't even following? Are they really walking their talk?"

    Probably one of the most powerful and influential questions someone could ask -- and we have MJ to thank for putting together a place where we can question things.

    The only problem is in the fanatics... they've been so cynical for such a long time that NOTHING works and NOTHING will ever work.

    They see an ad for someone who teaches business owners how to run facebook ads and they start screaming with pitchforks.

    Jesus, man... it's facebook ads -- not a guy on a yacht with bikini clad women. Calm down.

    On the other hand, I will say there has been a BOOM in people popping up on the scene again telling us how successful they are and if only they purchased their thing, they would be successful, too.

    I'm just as annoyed but I don't stay there... the very fact that we are sitting here discussing this stuff seems a little silly to me but at the end of the day my question is who cares?

    You've bought into a guru here. I think it's a good choice. MJ has made me a lot of money over the years. Millions of people buy into my organization year in and year out. I think that's a great choice.

    Bottom line: find teachers who have your best interests in mind and once you are sure that thing is for you -- devote your time, money, and energy into reading their books, learning how they think, and most importantly APPLYING what you learned.
     
  23. GoGetter24
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    I don't considered DeMarco or Lok gurus. I consider them winners. So I pay attention. I add them to the "pieces of the puzzle".

    This is definitely the key rule. Unless someone has made notable achievements outside of coaching, and you see proof, they shouldn't get a moment of your attention in matters of advice.
     
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  24. TreyAllDay
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    TreyAllDay Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I don't know man - something about it just seems so off to me. I can't mass-label the whole industry but they always seem to be peddling these super convoluted markets that everyone and their dog is dying to get a piece of: Social media marketing, business/marketing consulting, life coaching, copy-writing.
     
  25. GoGetter24
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    I think the cause and effect is the other way around though.

    There's a large demand for all that stuff. So many directionless people. So many crowd-followers. It's a ripe market. These guys are a creation, not a cause.

    It's an age old case of selling shovels.
    First you get on the bandwagon early enough that you can make good money with it.
    Then people start to hear about the bandwagon and pile on.
    At that point it's not worth being on the bandwagon. But you now know the bandwagon trade inside out. So you sell to the pilers-on instead of being one of them.

    The best reason to avoid copywriting (and social media marketing etc) is that you decided to do it because people on the internet said it's a good way to make money. By the time that happens, you're just catching a ripple -- the pebble dropped 10 years ago.

    But no one teaches this rule. Which is why for instance people will get aggressive when you call crypto a pure bandwagon, or still be dreaming up "killer apps" in 2018 despite current average app store downloads of zero, or be starting an affiliate marketing blog. They want to run on faith and the comfortable certainty of doing what other people claim works. And so they buy shovels, which the rich guys sell to them.

    Instead: better to pay attention to the process behind how they got rich. How they got the front-line trend information. The fundamental differences in how they behaved. That's their real value.
     

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