How deep does this "FAKE GURU" market actually go?

[Andy Black]

A hundred percent.

As an entrepreneur, I'm tired of articles (probably written by freelance writers) emphasizing how important your personal brand is. What happened to good old brands that you buy simply because they offer great services or products? Do you want your costumers to read about you or your product and the results it can generate for them?

Moreover, if you have a personal brand business, good luck selling it (I know this painfully well). If you can't sell it because it won't run properly without you, it's more of a career than a proper business.

As a client, I'm tired of it, too. I don't care who's the CEO of Logitech. I don't care one iota about his "personal brand." I don't want to subscribe to a blog about their products or read about their employees. All I care about is that I bought their mouse and it's the best mouse I've ever used.

Building a personal brand can make entrepreneurs focus on the wrong thing. It's not about you - it's about what you can do for the client. You don't have to share what you had for breakfast and plaster your face all over your website because they say that people buy from people. It's what you offer that counts, not who you are.

First and foremost, people care about themselves. I'd rather buy a great product from a "faceless" company than an average product from a "personal brand."

Amen.

Now where’s that “What’s the current gold rush?” thread so we can add “personal branding” to it?

 

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[MTEE1985]

Follow people who are DOING, heading in the direction you want to go, and who (intentionally or unintentionally) leave breadcrumbs behind.

100% agree. Another way to look it at it is to study and follow wisdom. Not intelligence. There are many highly intelligent “gurus” in the world but very few who are wise.

 

[Dunkafelics]

We all are susceptible to fancy and shiny things when they are put in front of us, I've been guilty of it in the past and I am sure you have been too.

I've got a ton of programs and courses that I've purchased over the last 6 years and guess what?...

It's a learning experience and one that I have grown from.

Yup, there have been a few that didn't pan out as much as I would have liked... oh well, moving forward.

So take control and put barriers in place that will ensure a product is right for you. Hal Elrod gave a group of us an awesome sequence to go by when determining to buy a product:

1. Start with Google - do a search on google for your selected topic (or outsource the research if you can)
2. Check the Fastlane Forum - my personal touch to this, you can probably find some excellent information and/or an individual who can help you along the path.
3. Read a book or listen to an audiobook on the topic - There is no excuse these days for not picking up a book and reading it 15 minutes a day or listening to an audiobook. You can literally get almost any book at a click of a button for less than $30 bucks.
4. Buy a course on the topic - VET THE PROGRAM in that you need to check reviews and ensure that there is a guarantee in place that you can get your money back, no questions asked if it is not for you. Ask yourself what are your expectations for taking the course and what would be considered a win?
5. Choose Your Own Adventure - if you've done a program and you got a high amount of value out of it, take another one. If you believe that this person can help you get to the next level of this specific topic then seek out further training. By this point, you should be taking a ton of action and looking to apply what you have learned so far.

Be selective and calculated about how you approach these things.

Ultimately, it is 100% our responsibility in making these decisions

 

[Dunkafelics]

I still wish I could wrangle Tony Robbins to get the ten bucks back I paid for his shitty book. He's arguably the king of the gurus, to the point where he has very intelligent people fooled that he knows what he's talking about. I guess physical stature and acting lessons can get you pretty far in the world of canned bullshit.
.

Book sucks... got it.

The rest of your argument... meh.

Tony Robbins has a ton of great content and his live events are something to experience.

I challenge you to read Awaken the Giant Within and if you don't get anything out of that book, I'll give you $20 bucks for it.

That Dan Lok guy, who I was actually introduced to by someone here (thanks whoever it was), is a clear cut case of a self made man. And he lays out the entire deal:

• Was poor when young.
• Kept borrowing money from family & friends to start businesses and failing them.
• Then deliberately sought out a highly successful older mentor in the space he was targeting, either outright paying them for internship/mentorship, or by giving gifts.
• Stopped screwing around with random businesses and targeted a core skill: copywriting. Did that until he got north of $10k/month (active income).
• Worked like a dog, didn't chase after chicks (just picked one girl and stuck with her), didn't drink and waste time with friends.
• Then moved into marketing generally & digital products.
• Then diversified out into business & consulting generally.
• Then the guru stuff.

Dan Lok does have some great material and his flagship book is decent.

The one frustration I've had with him is that his High Ticket Sales program is being sold for $2500 dollars. Basically, if you don't buy into his program on the webinar he believes that you will never be successful because you don't have the gusto to take risks in your life.

That didn't sit well with me, but he still has some decent information.

 

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[GoGetter24]

The one frustration I've had with him is that his High Ticket Sales program is being sold for $2500 dollars. Basically, if you don't buy into his program on the webinar he believes that you will never be successful because you don't have the gusto to take risks in your life.

Not only that, he implies you'll end up working as one of his "high ticket closers", but almost no-one does (so I've heard).

The thing I respect about it though it that it's inherently honest. He's showing you his no-holds barred, effective sales tactics in his selling to you. So even if you don't buy anything (which I haven't), you can observe what he's doing.

And again, I don't see the high price points like $2500 as being wrong: they're actually inspirational. If he's commanding those rates, he should be paid attention to. Primarily I think it's insightful regarding marketing. He said he's been slow grinding his YouTube output for years now, with this kind of end in mind (the broader the reach the wider the funnel and the higher you can push the price point). Grinding for years to reach the next income level? And doing it? The guy even started posting videos recently where he buys random really expensive stuff with his wife for the sake of unboxing it and showing how rich he is. The guy started from nothing and is now rolling in cash. It's worth paying attention to: but always at a "zoomed out" level, not taking everything at face value.

 

[SquatchMan]

How do you all gauge business courses, business gurus/personalities online, advice, etc? Who do you like, and what do you like about them? Or do you avoid the whole online business guru/advice/courses market all together?

I know MJ had a section on this but I've noticed how difficult it is to tell if people are legit. IE: I looked up to guys like Daymond John and watched all his interviews, but then I noticed he's licensing out his name to do online webinars on "making money" in my city. I was just watching Shark Tank and he was blatant doing product placement for a phone. Why would someone so successful bother? Same with Grant Cardone - seemed legit at first but why are these guys charging $4000 for seminars on sales? You don't seem to ever see guys like Mark Cuban or Elon Musk selling courses or doing product placement for an extra buck.

Is the internet an unreliable place to find these podcasts,courses,advice, etc? All one big upsell?

I hate that stuff and tune it out. The whole paid mentoring, money making courses, and business courses thing just doesn't resonate with me. Maybe it works for some people. I don't know.

It also doesn't seem entrepreneurial to take a course on how to start a business. I doubt Mark Cuban, Elon Musk, Wayne Huzienga, John Rockefeller, Mitt Romney, Richard Branson, [insert: any successful entrepreneur] took a seminar on making money before starting business #1.

 

[DustinH]

There was nothing new about what he wrote about. Tony made his name (and money) by changing peoples lives. I found this book very unlikely to do that for anybody. It was 700 pages boiling down to: dollar cost average in a low cost index fund.

Again, I’m a Tony Robbins fan, just not this book.

I didn't think the book was that great either. I've heard MJ use it as a good example of a) the get started early in investing and wait 30 years to be wealthy slowlane crap, and b) the author talking about wealth building tools that he doesn't use himself.

Although, I think Tony gave a lot of, if not all, his profits from that book to his charity Feeding America. He's big on raising money for that. I give to Feeding America every year. It's one of the highest ranked charities in the US.

 

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[MTF]

It also doesn't seem entrepreneurial to take a course on how to start a business. I doubt Mark Cuban, Elon Musk, Wayne Huzienga, John Rockefeller, Mitt Romney, Richard Branson, [insert: any successful entrepreneur] took a seminar on making money before starting business #1.

Interesting observation. I'm pretty sure that some successful entrepreneurs took courses and read books, but it's probably true to some extent that the most successful ones listen more to their intuition than to other people.

If you limit yourself to advice given by others, you don't come up with your own ideas. You're just repeating what everybody else is doing, and that's how goldrush business models are created.

A guru can tell you "nah, this won't work" but it won't work according to them and their limited experience (a direct response marketing guru will tell you that it's the best business model ever, a SaaS business guru will tell you that software is the way to go, and a blogger guru will tell you to produce more content).

Because so much information is so easily available today, we stop looking for answers within us. Businessmen in the past couldn't sign up for a new course on how to launch a factory. They had to listen to their gut and learn through experience.

Many modern entrepreneurs don't want risks. They don't want to start anything without first learning everything there is about it (and wasting time learning something that currently doesn't apply to you anyway). They want to "validate" their business ideas, even if there's already an existing market paying for a similar solution.

I'm writing this to myself, too, as I definitely spend too much time researching things instead of coming up with my own ideas.

 

[Ray Goslin]

Fake Gurus selling to Fake people. You can get rich quick, but you can't get rich easy. It takes work. If it were easy to get rich easy, everyone would be rich. The Guru's are selling people what they want, not what they need. It's buyer beware. Don't shift blame to the guru's, take responsibility for your own actions. Most of what they teach (common sense) works, however almost everyone who buys how to products don't IMPLEMENT it. It's been around for ever and will always sell. Like Dan Kennedy says "Become the Wizard, and beware of the Wizard".

 

[Andy Black]

Interesting observation. I'm pretty sure that some successful entrepreneurs took courses and read books, but it's probably true to some extent that the most successful ones listen more to their intuition than to other people.

If you limit yourself to advice given by others, you don't come up with your own ideas. You're just repeating what everybody else is doing, and that's how goldrush business models are created.

A guru can tell you "nah, this won't work" but it won't work according to them and their limited experience (a direct response marketing guru will tell you that it's the best business model ever, a SaaS business guru will tell you that software is the way to go, and a blogger guru will tell you to produce more content).

Because so much information is so easily available today, we stop looking for answers within us. Businessmen in the past couldn't sign up for a new course on how to launch a factory. They had to listen to their gut and learn through experience.

Many modern entrepreneurs don't want risks. They don't want to start anything without first learning everything there is about it (and wasting time learning something that currently doesn't apply to you anyway). They want to "validate" their business ideas, even if there's already an existing market paying for a similar solution.

I'm writing this to myself, too, as I definitely spend too much time researching things instead of coming up with my own ideas.

The unseen danger of consuming other people’s content and opinions is you no longer hear your own thoughts.

I had a paid chat with a business coach a couple of years ago.

My biggest takeaway was when he told me:

“You don’t need to be on any lists brother. All you need is within you now.”

Sometimes you already know what to do, and just need to do it.


When you get stuck, maybe ask yourself “What would Richard Branson do?”

 

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[JasonEP]

The guru rabbit hole goes deep. Anyone willing to lend their name out in order to sell something helps contribute. As was said in here earlier, Mark Cuban isn't creating guru courses. That being said, he is willing to sit down and use Tai Lopez's platform to sell products "build his brand". This helps gurus.

As a general rule I don't ever buy anything from anyone who had made a great deal of their wealth selling seminars. This to me is the biggest indicator of a guru. I don't care how good they are at everything else, if they have made their money through seminars I will not purchase anything from them. An example is Grant Cardone. I actually like Grant for what it's worth. He did an interview with London Real recently where it was the first time I felt like I was hearing from the real Cardone and not the cheesy caricature of himself he always puts on. That being said, he always tells people that to get rich they need to be in sales, and when pressured to reveal what he was selling, it wasn't cars like he alludes to; it was seminars. His mentor was a seminar salesman. It's guru junk. Hell, his main business is a sales training program......that he doesn't even put his own employees through. Its guru crap.

I do not believe "Those that can't do, teach". I don't think this is correct. Plenty of people love teaching. But if you are teaching because you love it, it's because you have actual knowledge to teach and are charging prices that make sense. There are plenty of people that teach local courses or "seminars" (actual seminars) and give actual information to paying customers. In these cases, the customer is charged a fair price and walks away from the seminar with more knowledge than they came in with. Another version of actual teachers is true mentorship. Someone that is doing something everyday and letting you come along and help them while teaching you why and how to do what they are doing.
On the other hand, if you are Sam Ovens, you're not knowledgeable in the field you are "teaching". So you aren't actually helping anyone, and you are charging them out of this world prices for literally nothing. This is an example of the "those that can't do, teach" guru.

To find people that aren't gurus you need to find people that are actively working in the field you are working in. They need to be recently retired and teaching what they know to fill their time, or currently doing what they are teaching and only teaching as a side hobby. If teaching it via seminar is their full time job/business just assume they are a guru. It may not always be true, but in general this is a good way to weed out the crap.

Tony Robbins has 6+ versions of his seminars. All of them are in different fields with different focuses. Nobody can be an expert in 6 different fields. If you want to really "invest in yourself" do not spend $6500 (yes literally) on a ticket to Tony Robbins' Date with Destiny. Whether or not you think college is a scam, the type of people that will spend this much to learn their life's purpose at this seminar would be way better off spending this same money and getting an associates or even bachelors degree (if they get aid) with this same amount of money. Then they have at least learned something applicable and truly invested in themselves.

If there is any sort of motivation and finding purpose attached to something you are looking to buy, it is also a guru course.

I'm torn on how I feel about the gurus though. I feel that it is wrong that they are taking advantage of people desperate to turn their lives around and willing to pay money for the information to get them on the right path. On the other hand, I don't know if I should feel bad because the types of people that fall for these guru scams are usually the people looking to get rich quick and without any hard work. They are trying to shortcut. They don't deserve to get ripped off, but most of them would be willing to adopt the guru tactics and rip others off. So I don't know.

The people that fall for gurus are also prevalent in the real estate investing community. When I first found bigger pockets I was thinking of all the competition there would be in real estate investing, but the more time you spend on there you realize that hardly anyone there looking to learn would be competition. They don't care about real estate, they just think it is an easy way to get out of working. Their very reasoning for wanting to get into real estate (not working/passive income) is exactly what is going to keep them from ever buying a rental property.

While business/entrepreneurship is a huge guru factory, things like personal finance and fitness are also ripe with guru garbage. There are 1000 personal finance books with more coming out everyday written by random people with no savings. Like MJ said, its all about compound interest bs. All the personal finance bloggers out there run out of content quickly, because there isn't much at all to teach. Save a portion of your paycheck every pay period, invest a portion of your paycheck every pay period, have an emergency fund, and cut down on needless spending. That is literally all 90% of people need to know about personal finance, but they can't sell you anything on that. So they become motivation gurus as well and to keep their blogs up they need to sell more stuff, so you get motivation and speculation tips.

Fitness industry is the same exact thing. Want to lose weight? Eat less calories than you burn. That is all 90% of people need to know, but they can't sell you on it. So they add motivation, diet plans, workout routines, supplements etc. Advice that isn't even correct (like tips about spot reduction) Just like weight loss, weightlifting is the same, want to bulk up? Let me give you all the supplements, routines, diet plans, motivation, and tips that aren't even correct. Its all guru garbage.

So yes, guru rabbit hole goes deep and across many industries. My concern is whether or not people buying guru courses are actually getting ripped off. They are trying to take shortcuts, and are usually willing to rip off others. Maybe they just get off on the motivation they receive by purchasing the guru courses. Maybe the gurus and customers deserve each other.

 

[miraman]

Any rants about the real estate wholesaling guru webinars?

 

[JasonEP]

Any rants about the real estate wholesaling guru webinars?

Hahaha how about every one of them?

Wholesaling real estate might be the biggest guru scam of them all. Wholesaling is something that can very well make people a lot of money. But those people are people with DEEP industry knowledge and YEARS of experience in a very specific market. They must also have a Rolodex stuffed with so many contacts that it is the size of a car tire.

That is one thing I also write off immediately. I don't know of anyone online claiming to be a wholesaler that ever actually made any money, and when they claim to be a wholesaler you can assume they aren't. Everyone on bigger pockets claims to be one. It is like the entrepreneur guru scam, where now everyone you meet is a "social media marketer/affiliate marker".

The only wholesaler I ever met that made money was someone I met through a family member of mine, this family member actually is a successful real estate entrepreneur. The wholesaler he used had worked for decades in the commercial real estate market in southern GA/northern FL markets. He worked at a REPE firm and after he quit he had more contacts than he knew what to do with. It was very little work for him to have deals come across his inbox that he could easily get and sell to others. He wasn't do it to raise money, he was doing it because it was very easy work in retirement because of his experience and network.

The whole mini-industry around wholesaling courses is an oxymoron. It is all about "investing in real estate with no money down!" That is how it is pitched. Investing with no money is an oxymoron. "Investing by wholesaling" is an oxymoron. Investing is putting your money into an asset that you now own that makes money so your money works for you. If you aren't investing any money, and don't own anything, and are constantly hustling to find deals to sell, you haven't invested at all.

Wholesaling is like Real Estate Investing as a career. It can't be your first career, you must have built up knowledge and a network for wholesaling. And REI requires money, so you can't start your career in investing with no money to invest.

 

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[TreyAllDay]

If you limit yourself to advice given by others, you don't come up with your own ideas. You're just repeating what everybody else is doing, and that's how goldrush business models are created.

I think this is important - one of my mentors told me once to take pieces of things that work for you, I think most people don't see it this way unfortunately. I was a big Grant Cardone fan and then he started talking about how network marketing is a good start and I just couldn't listen to him again. But when you put it in perspective - on the "guru" side I think you really do just have to take pieces of what works for you.

 

[KeithWallace]

An important thing to mention is that none of these angles were my own idea. I browsed a ton of Yelp reviews from competitors and compiled a list of all the 1-star reviews until I started seeing what many of them had in common. Then I addressed all of the most common complaints in my advertising.

Wow. This one paragraph has made it worth reading through this entire thread. Brilliant.

 

[LiveEntrepreneur]

I noticed something very interesting lately. Alot of books that I have read in business and in sales by popular authors they ALL say something in the book like "Make sure you keep learning, read books, go to seminars, listen to audiobooks", then 2 pages later they mention their course/seminar! Which is over $1000 they will teach you shit that you could learn for free. They are trying to take advantage over ignorant people in my opinion. I think a good idea is to read what they teach then just Google it, there is no need to pay $5000 for a course.

 

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[Ray Goslin]

The gurus aren't in the business of doing what they're selling. They're in the marketing business, and damn good at it. And BTW the guru's don't give a f#@k what any of us think. They're probably not on forums slagging off others, they're too busy creating the next product for the market place. Tony Robbins is not qualified at anything, he just says "I have a PhD in success. Of the people who go to a Tony Robbins event, only 4% follow through on what he teaches. So, whose fault is that? Also 4% success in any area of life is typical, because everyone wants the result without the effort. Those who go to a Tony Robbins event are usually considered quite successful in their own business, so everyone's gullible to something. Besides, people don't go to learn, (they think they do), they go for the bragging rights to tell everyone the went to a Tony Robbins event, and maybe some networking.

Shiny object syndrome will never change. Like the head of EST said, "Everyone's walking around with their umbilical cord in their hand, looking for somewhere to plug it in.
If people want to blame someone for spending money with these guys, look in the mirror. That's the person who decided to buy. The biggest reason people don't get results, is not the product, it's their lack of implementation. Don't forget, there is usually a money back guarantee with what they sell. So; you've got 3 choices, 1. Implement what they sell you. 2. Ask for your money back. 3. Shut the f@#k up and learn the lesson.

The gurus, work their asses off to put together what they're selling (common sense), like a well oiled machine. Take a lesson from them, copy the process, rinse and repeat.
Be accountable for your own choices.

"BECOME the Wizard, and BEWARE of the Wizards".

 

[JasonEP]

They are obviously in the marketing business. But marketing nothing in particular and being good at it is called selling snake oil.

Who cares if they are good at marketing if they are only using it to sell snake oil? I don't think anyone here is under the impression that the gurus are on these forums giving a damn what any of us thinks. That isn't the point. The point is they are scummy and selling snake oil. They aren't "too busy creating the next product" because they don't actually make any products. They are marketing nothing. There is no "lack of implementation" because the guru isn't teaching anything actionable.

This isn't something to aspire to. If someone came on this forum and proved that they became a millionaire by getting a loan, using it to rent out a mansion and Lambo, and filmed bunch of videos in them telling people to use their BS secrets and positive mindset to get rich, they wouldn't get any respect from me.

I don't care how hard a guru works to put together what they are selling. Its still a scam. Should Victor Lustig be admired because he worked hard and got rich scamming people with his money printing machine? All a guru does is make and sell a bs "product" like Lustig and use good salesmanship (that could have been put to good use in a legitimate business) to sell it.

I'm sure someone will mention that the gurus don't care about what I think of them. Obviously. That is fine. But people that admire these people need to look in the mirror and think for a minute. Sure, you could follow the guru path and make a BS course teaching people nothing at all and somehow get 5k for it. But could you look yourself in the mirror knowing you were a scam artist? Have some dignity. Make an actual product or service, and actually go out and help some people and add ACTUAL value.

If you aren't a total sociopath you'll feel much better providing true value and not snake oil to make a quick buck. And there is no use in copying the internet bro-marketing guru business plan. There are thousands of legitimate businesses offering real services that have great marketing that you can copy. Pick one of them instead.

 

[pgonzalez]

Just a bit of a rant/curious what peoples opinions are. How do you all gauge business courses, business gurus/personalities online, advice, etc? Who do you like, and what do you like about them? Or do you avoid the whole online business guru/advice/courses market all together?

Most of the comments on this thread thus far have been about bashing pet peeves - that is who not to follow, who is BS, etc.

But let's get back to the original questions: How do you filter, and who has passed your filter?

How I filter:

They should have a lot of stuff online (e.g. blogs) or offline (e.g. books), read the reviews for them, or better yet, read them yourself. Find out who they are where they come from, and whether they have any substance - have they publicly articulated their methods and their story.
Key question: Have they got any successes under their belt, and if so did they achieve those through their own effort? (this disqualifies inheritance, windfalls, ect)
Red flags: They don't have any independently verifiable info about themselves out there.

Who makes the cut:

Some here might feel it is too rash or even too quick to judge, but when there's so much out there, do what you can to ramp up your signal to noise ratio. A few of those who have made the cut for me are:

- Steve Pavlina
- Pat Flynn
- Ramit Sethi

All of them have traits in common: They have a success story worthy of emulating and learning from, they write about their methods publicly, and they teach other people.

P.S. I've included Ramit here on the list to exemplify a more subtle point - because he has (what some might consider) - sleazy/ scammy sales pages and copy on his sites, and has courses priced at (also what some might consider) outrageous prices; a lot of us here on this thread would disregard him from the get go, and overlook the fact he provides genuine value. Point being that a nuanced review is necessary sometimes.

 

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[MTF]

Some here might feel it is too rash or even too quick to judge, but when there's so much out there, do what you can to ramp up your signal to noise ratio. A few of those who have made the cut for me are:

- Steve Pavlina
- Pat Flynn
- Ramit Sethi

I'm surprised that Pat Flynn made the cut for you. The guy who, according to his latest available income report, makes 97.69% of his income teaching people how to make money online.

As likable as he is, he's a great example of fake guruship. He never made more than a few thousand dollars from a non-make-money niche, with his site Foodtruckr being a great example (launched in 2013, makes $1600 a month).

I understand that make money online is a lucrative niche, but I'm tired of gurus teaching people how to make money online while the only product they ever sold was in the make money online niche (even if it's legitimate like selling hosting as an affiliate).

 

[The Abundant Man]

I'm not a tin foil hat conspiracist but I'm giving you guys some Classified Top Secret Information guys. Fake Gurus are secretly extraterrestrials in disguise. My sources go far down the rabbitt hole.

 

[OutofPoverty]

I noticed something very interesting lately. Alot of books that I have read in business and in sales by popular authors they ALL say something in the book like "Make sure you keep learning, read books, go to seminars, listen to audiobooks", then 2 pages later they mention their course/seminar! Which is over $1000 they will teach you sh*t that you could learn for free. They are trying to take advantage over ignorant people in my opinion. I think a good idea is to read what they teach then just Google it, there is no need to pay $5000 for a course.

I saw this in "The Millionaire Booklet by Grant Cardone" and Dotcom Secrets by Russell Brunson. @LiveEntrepreneur

 

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[Ray Goslin]

 

[LiveEntrepreneur]

I saw this in "The Millionaire Booklet by Grant Cardone" and Dotcom Secrets by Russell Brunson. @LiveEntrepreneur

View attachment 20869

View attachment 20870

Interesting.

 

[Ray Goslin]

 

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[maverick]

The mindset seems to be contagious too and the forum isn't immune to it either.

Numerous posts of people that don't know what they're doing with their life but still decide to "setup their own coaching program"...

 

[pgonzalez]

I'm surprised that Pat Flynn made the cut for you. The guy who, according to his latest available income report, makes 97.69% of his income teaching people how to make money online.

Interesting - I thought that Ramit would have been the controversial one in the list!

Just to be clear, I am not of the same opinion as many in the thread - which is that people who make money by teaching other people to make money are by default fake gurus. My take is a bit more nuanced. Recap:

They should have a lot of stuff online (e.g. blogs) or offline (e.g. books), read the reviews for them, or better yet, read them yourself. Find out who they are where they come from, and whether they have any substance - have they publicly articulated their methods and their story.
Key question: Have they got any successes under their belt, and if so did they achieve those through their own effort? (this disqualifies inheritance, windfalls, ect)
Red flags: They don't have any independently verifiable info about themselves out there.

- has stuff online ... check
- has good reviews ... check
- has substance ... check
- has publicly articulate methods and story ... check
- has achieved success through own effort ... check
- can independently verify claims made ... check

Checks all the boxes for me.

Anyhow my point is not to state that my criteria are definitive - rather that I have a clear list of criteria defined, and I apply the same set to anyone I'm looking to filter out as a potential "fake guru". The criteria that you apply to filter the same people are different, so you'll filter out different people.

 

[SEBASTlAN]

This is what I think I'm realizing. Aside from what they SAY they've done, I've NEVER heard of these guys for anything but these courses. Tai Lopez said he made millions in various businesses, this Gary Vee guy I can't stop hearing about owns a huge "National Marketing Consulting" firm with global clients, I've never heard of these guys except for their courses they are selling.

Has anyone heard of Sam Ovens? I'm seeing his crap non-stop, never heard of the guy and apparently he's some Forbes-ranked (makes me wonder if this Forbes list can be bought) multi millionaire.

And they want to teach people how to be better social media consultants and trade their time for money? What about barriers to entry, time separation, automation? Such a joke lol.

Gary V is legit but he doesn't sell a course. He started a media agency which is now like ~900 people

Sam ovens was a graduate of the Foundation which is like a class for selling SaaS products. It appears he's moved on to being a guru now.

 

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[MTEE1985]

Isn’t it impossible (or damn difficult) to filter out a “fake” guru ahead of time? Everything related to this is subjective. If I paid $6,000 for a (insert any “guru” name here) seminar and I could directly link that to me making millions of dollars then he or she are my hero. If I spend the money and get no ROI then I call him/her a scam artist.

Same can go for anybody that teaches because the opinion is that of the student. Our dear friend MJ who WE know from experience is legit, has his detractors who read MFL thinking it was the secret to millions within the year.

Having said all that, I love the conversation and opinions here. Do I think some people here are singing the praises of a “fake” guru? Yes, I do. Do I happen to like the content put out by some of the gurus being bashed here? Absolutely. To each his own.

 

[Actual Wizard]

Is the internet an unreliable place to find these podcasts,courses,advice, etc? All one big upsell?

You have to learn the difference between an expert and a guru.

Note: I'm not posting this as some kind of self-promotion, I'm talking from my perspective. I'm not fishing for PMs here...

As an example, I'm an expert SEO. I believe that if you took the top 100 SEOs on the planet and put them in a room to have an "SEO death match" to see who is the very best, I'm not suggesting that I would win, but I am suggesting that I would be in that room.

The reality of that is, you've likely never heard of me, you've probably wouldn't know many people in that room, and I highly doubt you would have any idea who would win.

If you're thinking "hey I know about this one blogger," whose name I won't mention, but he's "Kind Of A Big Slogan." Yeah uh, that person bought a domain for thousands of dollars that was penalized (idiotic mistake) for a project that went so poorly that he ended up selling fish oil pills on Amazon (not kidding) and made up BS excuses about basically everything... Any time this person's name is brought up amongst experts, there's usually a fair amount of eye-rolling since most people don't understand that this person claims to have a team over 40+ people working on "their blog" and yet can't seem to keep male enhancement and fake doctor spam off their old blog.

With that said, I do know the people who are truly experts, and I have a pretty good idea who would win, (tip: most of these people don't typically talk or blog about SEO on the internet as they have better things to do with their time like build companies or work with clients...)

Trust me, when I say this, you don't want to learn SEO from an SEO expert, you want to learn SEO from an expert SEO.

There is a big difference.

Why would an expert SEO need to sell on a course on SEO? An expert SEO would just tell you how to do it on their blog and if that's too much work for you, they'll either do it for you (obviously not for free) or have somebody at their agency do it. Since it requires experience and things change from time to time, obviously you're kind of scamming yourself if you think that it's a good idea for you do to attempt it with no specialized knowledge or experience...

It's the same BS with the sales guru courses...

Tip: The richest people on the planet make small amounts of money thousands or millions of times a day, not by selling high ticket products that most people would consider to be a scam. This should be kind of obvious...

Since Grant Cardone's name was brought up: He's an expert at separating people from their money not teaching entrepreneurs how to navigate the start up process and be successful. For your business to be successful, you must seek and find the specialized knowledge required for YOUR BUSINESS to be successful. Grant Cordone has absolutely none of that information...