Can we talk about PhDs?

[REV5028]

Most people will always assume that you're smart because you have a PhD, even if your field of study was irrelevant to the particular undertaking. It will open doors for you that you wouldn't expect.

Thank you for your comments! I'm realizing more and more that I've been living in the tiny bubble of PhD land - I haven't realized what a PhD means to those on the outside.

 

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[Amerstain]

Thank you for sharing your story! My undergraduate experience has some similarities to yours. I did my Bachelor's in physics. I had a really rough first semester; I failed the entry physics class. My next semester wasn't much better. I started to reconsider my choice of subject. I was doing well in chemistry, but I hated it (I have a better appreciation for it these days though!). I decided that I loved physics and I was going to tackle my test anxiety, study better, etc., whatever I needed to, to earn the degree. I also didn't know any other route, so I think that played a huge role in me sticking with it.

So, I really admire you for changing course without knowing what exactly your new course would be. I know it doesn't do much good to dwell on past "what ifs," but for just a moment I wonder what I actually would have done if I had decided college wasn't for me. Thanks for reminding me that great lessons come from failing and that there's always a way forward. I wish you good luck and good fortune on your journey!

Thanks man, you too, good luck. It will be hard, but something tells me it will be worth it, as if overcoming the doubts is a barrier to succes in itself.

 

[BizyDad]

At the moment I just feel like the cons outweigh the pros.

Ok, I'll say it.

Get. A. Job.

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that that degree can land you a $150k job. Maybe more. You might have to move, but how many geophysicists are there? Much less ones with a PhD?

You won't be making $150,000 in the next two years in some "fastlane" venture. Maybe you could, but realistically, sorry you won't.

I know you probably think the smart thing to do is start a business. But you don't know what business to start, and you don't have the business skills necessary to truly grow it.

You also don't have money. And that's usually a pretty helpful thing when starting/growing a business.

If I were you, I'd get a lucrative job, & I'd plan on being there 4 or 5 years. I would live frugally. I'd pay the minimum on my student loans. I would sock away cash. I would take my nights and weekends to start something on the side. I would do my best to mingle with business owners. I would ask as many questions as I can of any business owners I meet, especially how they got started in business.

And just on a side note... The companies who hire geophysicist PhDs for good six figure salaries probably make a lot of money. So maybe you stay in that industry long enough to get a name for yourself, and then start your own venture...

 

[REV5028]

Ok, I'll say it.

Get. A. Job.

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that that degree can land you a $150k job. Maybe more. You might have to move, but how many geophysicists are there? Much less ones with a PhD?

You won't be making $150,000 in the next two years in some "fastlane" venture. Maybe you could, but realistically, sorry you won't.

I know you probably think the smart thing to do is start a business. But you don't know what business to start, and you don't have the business skills necessary to truly grow it.

You also don't have money. And that's usually a pretty helpful thing when starting/growing a business.

If I were you, I'd get a lucrative job, & I'd plan on being there 4 or 5 years. I would live frugally. I'd pay the minimum on my student loans. I would sock away cash. I would take my nights and weekends to start something on the side. I would do my best to mingle with business owners. I would ask as many questions as I can of any business owners I meet, especially how they got started in business.

And just on a side note... The companies who hire geophysicist PhDs for good six figure salaries probably make a lot of money. So maybe you stay in that industry long enough to get a name for yourself, and then start your own venture...

Thanks for your perspective!

I am currently employed somewhere with decent growth potential, though I'm currently earning much less than your estimate. I started this position before I even walked at graduation. The job came from one of two internships I held concurrently. I think it's reasonable that I feel burnt out. But sure, I probably could find another job that would pay more, or I could stick it out for a few more years to earn something in the ballpark of $150k.

I agree that not having business experience/skills or much money are big challenges for me at the moment.

Besides a lower-than-ideal starting salary and still earning a -60% return on my time, my job is great. I'm just tired. I've been in school for literally 25 years. I want freedom. Badly. But, I hear you. I see how it might work out better to kick it in the slowlane for a little while longer with a side project or two before venturing into something bigger.

I appreciate your perspective and I'll take your advice into serious consideration.

 

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[Niptuck MD]

What do I mean by that? No one can live parallel lives, it's impossible

This is the point of the thread. Salute

 

[BizyDad]

I'm just tired.

I'm sorry to hear that. It'll pass. There's many ways to help it pass. Some examples

• Get more sleep
• Rededicate yourself to the life you chose
• Develop new hobbies
• Surround yourself with new more uplifting people
• Find a bigger purpose for your life
• Get healthier

But sure, I probably could find another job that would pay more

Have you started looking yet?

I could stick it out for a few more years to earn something in the ballpark of $150k.

That's slowlane for sure. You'll increase your salary faster by switching companies. If you aren't willing to switch, then you have to mentally dedicate yourself to where you're at. You chose this. Everyday you choose to show up to work. The least you can do is enjoy it and own it.

I agree that not having business experience/skills or much money are big challenges for me at the moment.

That'll come in time. Be patient with yourself.

I want freedom. Badly.

What does that mean? What does it look like to have freedom for you? What would you do with freedom?

 

[Bekit]

My PhD is in Geophysics (MS Geophysics, BS Physics), so definitely not business-related. I think a large part of why I feel so behind is because I haven't yet learned which skills I've gained in my science career carry over to the business world.

The one thing that no one has mentioned yet is - What is the biggest NEED or unsolved problem in the area of Geophysics that your background and training equips you to solve?

Start asking yourself this question.

As you do your job, start spotting gaps and frustrations and pain points that people in your industry have to put up with.

You've very well poised to identify something worth creating. And once you do start creating it, with your PhD, you've crossed a barrier to ENTRY that will put you nicely ahead of others who only have a Bachelor's degree.

By the way, you mentioned negative emotions.

Do you think it could be that you're going through the stages of grief?

You've just navigated a massive transition (long-time student to workforce) and that has got to have taken a toll on you, especially after the long, grueling effort it took to earn your degree.

I would suspect that emerging from being a full-time student (where you knew the ropes and everything was at least somewhat familiar and predictable) and entering the workforce may leave you feeling disoriented and unsettled and out of place. Transitioning from studies to employment can be downright jarring.

So maybe at some level, you're grieving the loss of your studenthood? Or maybe you achieved the pinnacle of education that you had been pursuing, and it didn't hold the fulfillment that you were expecting? Or maybe you had a certain status and prestige as a PhD student, but now you're just a "new employee" and that esteem is way less?

Whether it's that or something totally different, please be kind to yourself and patient with yourself. It's ok to acknowledge that it's hard. It's ok to grieve the loss of something that was part of your life for so long, even if that grief is complicated and you don't even want that season back.

You really haven't done anything stupid, even though it may feel like it, so don't fall for that notion.

"Go as far as you can, and when you get there, you'll always be able to see farther."

You've got this.

 

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[REV5028]

I'm sorry to hear that. It'll pass. There's many ways to help it pass. Some examples

• Get more sleep
• Rededicate yourself to the life you chose
• Develop new hobbies
• Surround yourself with new more uplifting people
• Find a bigger purpose for your life
• Get healthier

I definitely need to get back into exercising and eating better. A lot of other big things happened this year that have interrupted my usually healthy lifestyle. I've improved my sleep and am starting to look forward, because I've honestly been stuck for a little while. But now it's time to get back in the driver's seat.

Have you started looking yet?

That's slowlane for sure. You'll increase your salary faster by switching companies. If you aren't willing to switch, then you have to mentally dedicate yourself to where you're at. You chose this. Everyday you choose to show up to work. The least you can do is enjoy it and own it.

I've looked briefly. I haven't been with my current company in my current position for a year yet (April/May timeframe), so I think I've settled on finishing out a year before reassessing. I'm continuing to learn a lot, the people are great, I get to work remotely for the most part, and it seems reasonably possible to get converted to a higher salaried position sometime next year (doubtful $150k, but I really don't know). Honestly, your comments have helped me to slow my mind down, chill out a bit, and reframe my attitude. I've been a bit more optimistic, productive, and focused at work this week. Thank you.

That'll come in time. Be patient with yourself.

Thank you. I've started talking with a friend who I knew was her own boss, but it hadn't clicked in my brain that she's operating a business. She has given me so much useful information and things to think about in just a short 2-hour hang out. She also knows other business owners whom she'd be willing to introduce me to. And I'm starting to learn from this forum. I know I'll have to start learning by doing eventually, so I'll probably try to do something very small scale (like bake bread to sell locally or something) on the side.

What does that mean? What does it look like to have freedom for you? What would you do with freedom?

Freedom for me is to be able to experience as much as I can in life and contribute to society without being constrained by time traded for money or money itself. I would travel, participate in Big Brothers Big Sisters, learn another language, visit my family more (they're 1700 miles away), do something to help the stray dog/cat issue in my area, probably rescue and train a few dogs personally, tutor local high school students, get in the best running and climbing shape of my life, look for and solve other problems/provide value to others, etc.

 

[REV5028]

The one thing that no one has mentioned yet is - What is the biggest NEED or unsolved problem in the area of Geophysics that your background and training equips you to solve?

Start asking yourself this question.

I've asked myself this question so much over the last few years and my mind is perpetually drawing blanks. I think it makes me so anxious that my brain just shuts down - similar to test anxiety or fear of failing on something that feels so big or not feeling like I'm cut out for it. I think the next step in my current job is going to force me to really attack this question. I'll have some guidance, especially in the brainstorming stage, so I'm hoping the process will show me that I'm more capable than I feel and that it's not as scary as I'm thinking it is.

Do you think it could be that you're going through the stages of grief?

Or maybe you achieved the pinnacle of education that you had been pursuing, and it didn't hold the fulfillment that you were expecting?

I would definitely describe myself as grieving. I think the grief comes mostly from what you said about achieving the pinnacle of education that I had been pursuing, and it not being as fulfilling as I had expected. I think this is partly due to my own attitude (seeing the completion of the PhD as the end goal, then feeling empty once I completed that goal with no new goal to take its place), but also I was not well prepared by my mentors for what comes after a PhD. My academic advisor also made my last semester way more difficult than necessary, so I've been working through those feelings as well.

Or maybe you had a certain status and prestige as a PhD student, but now you're just a "new employee" and that esteem is way less?

I could see this being the case for some, but for me I think the opposite is true. I'm still surrounded by PhD holders. I think I'm suffering from imposter syndrome - I look at my mentors who have been in this field longer, but I expect myself to know as much as them and I feel stupid when I don't. It's not logical, but it's a really difficult thing to get over. Even when still a student I never really felt I had prestige. It's much easier to look at newer students and remember being new myself and know how far I've come and know that they'll also grow a ton by the end than to look at mentors and think I'll be there one day.

Whether it's that or something totally different, please be kind to yourself and patient with yourself. It's ok to acknowledge that it's hard. It's ok to grieve the loss of something that was part of your life for so long, even if that grief is complicated and you don't even want that season back.

You really haven't done anything stupid, even though it may feel like it, so don't fall for that notion.

"Go as far as you can, and when you get there, you'll always be able to see farther."

You've got this.

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words! I really appreciate your message, it helps a lot.

 

[Bekit]

I've asked myself this question so much over the last few years and my mind is perpetually drawing blanks. I think it makes me so anxious that my brain just shuts down - similar to test anxiety or fear of failing on something that feels so big or not feeling like I'm cut out for it.

Just to reassure you - you don't need to know right now.

Just relax and let your subconscious work on it.

Also just start a practice of writing down a list of needs and problems that you've identified, whether or not you think you can or want to try to solve them. Just the habit of identifying need will help open your eyes to the opportunity that's all around you.

You can also break down the question by narrowing the focus to a "niche" within Geophysics.

For example:
- What are some problems that geophysics PhD students face?
- What are some problems that first-year geophysics employees face as they get into their careers?
- What are some problems that the government faces related to geophysics?
- What are some problems that internet service providers face related to geophysics?
- What are some problems that construction companies face related to geophysics?
- What is the worst geophysics software that you're forced to use because there's nothing better?
- What area of geophysics is still done "old school" simply because no one has brought it into the modern age?
- Where are there areas where boring, monotonous, repetitive work affects people in your field?
etc.

Glad my message was encouraging to you.

 

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[Ismail941]

First of All, congrats on your Ph.D. Do not be disheartened.

If I were in your shoes, I would do these: (Feel Free to copy as you like because it's pretty much universal - Any human can do this)

I have 2 Options for you, you can use both as combo and or you can start with 1 option or 2 option - or do whatever works for you!

Option 1: Looking for people who have PhD and made the transition into the Business/Venture World
They have to be age in 40+, 50+ and 60+

Requirement of this doing this: You need googling and research skills as mandatory

Step 1: I would go to google and youtube

Step 2: I will type these similar sentences/keywords:
"Women who have Ph.D. and have been to entrepreneurship path/route"
"Women who have Ph.D. and have been to business venture path/route"
Something like that - you can modify the words based on your interest whatever you have in your mind

Step 3: By doing it. You take some white paper (If you are old school fashioned person)/google doc (If you are tech savvy) and start writing notes, insights, and knowledge what they have done and how they made the transition to a new career or business venture! If they have written any books or have programs or have some community or something - Get on it. This is how you invest in yourself.

Step 4: You can model/reverse engineer it by doing it.

Step 5: Once you did step 4, see what you have feasibility in your situation and favors - ONLY you can answer this since I do not know you!

Step 6: Once you do it, start weighing the pros and cons of what would work in your situation.

Step 7: Once you find that feasibility, start small immediately and snowball later as after some years

TIPS: This is just a rough and imperfect idea and research stage/phase.
Do not quit your current job. You can do this during your off hours.
Do not take this for granted because you are in the initial experiment/research phase. It's like you are trying new jeans in a Walmart before you purchase it you know what I mean!


Option 2: Make a youtube channel about my entire Ph.D. experience.
Your Target Audience: Young People who want to do Ph.D. in near future so that they can learn from you and your content.

Requirement of this doing this: Adding Value thru Making Contents for them. Making Video Contents, Comfortable on Camera etc

You can share your PhD work, dos and dont's, sharing not to make mistakes, and avoid pitfalls for your target audience. Start Gather all your experience of your PhD work, package it, and deliver the content for your target audience. By doing it, you can have subscribers' numbers, likes, and views - you can do it incrementally over time.

In Short, you can make money on youtube by sharing your Ph.D. expertise what you have done and been thru so that your target audience can feel you.

 

[BizyDad]

Option 2: Make a youtube channel about my entire Ph.D. experience.
Your Target Audience: Young People who want to do Ph.D. in near future so that they can learn from you and your content.

Requirement of this doing this: Adding Value thru Making Contents for them. Making Video Contents, Comfortable on Camera etc

You can share your PhD work, dos and dont's, sharing not to make mistakes, and avoid pitfalls for your target audience. Start Gather all your experience of your PhD work, package it, and deliver the content for your target audience. By doing it, you can have subscribers' numbers, likes, and views - you can do it incrementally over time.

In Short, you can make money on youtube by sharing your Ph.D. expertise what you have done and been thru so that your target audience can feel you.

Please don't do this. There are only 283 geophysics degrees handed out annually and most of those are not people who will be advancing to PhD status. You'll be doing all this work for an audience of 15 and asking yourself, why isn't this working?

But I suppose it isn't any better or worse than

so I'll probably try to do something very small scale (like bake bread to sell locally or something) on the side

Everybody starts somewhere. And while this isn't likely to become a full fledged path to wealth, who am I to say it won't? Worst case, whether it is educating via Youtube or selling bread for dough, you will develop some skills and that's worth something. Something is better than nothing.

But I like what Bekit was saying. Solve real problems in your area of expertise. Don't feel like an expert yet? That's ok, you'll get there. There's only 283 people a year entering this field, so there is going to be plenty of problems going unsolved for a while.

Plus if you tackle those level problems, I suspect you'll find it easier to get positive feedback on your ideas, and that positive feedback will be s important to propel you on your journey. There's only so many times you'll hear "no thank you" at a farmer's market or stare at your 15 youtube subscribers before you pivot away from that to something with a better sense of traction. Just hang on to the lessons and skills you develop to help you take the next steps on your journey.

Lasltly I want to say this. I remember at 29-30 feeling like all my peers were so far ahead of me professionally and in life experience. By 33 I had felt I had "caught up" to many of them. I'm 47 now, and "they" feel like they want to catch up to me. Meanwhile I long ago stopped feeling like I am competing with anyone but myself.

My point is, we all have our own life path's to walk. And someday you'll look back and see how one thing led to another and you have this awesome life and dreams are coming true and you wouldn't change a thing. And it'll probably happen faster than you know it. Your journey is really just beginning.

Good luck and hope this helps.

 

[REV5028]

Also just start a practice of writing down a list of needs and problems that you've identified, whether or not you think you can or want to try to solve them. Just the habit of identifying need will help open your eyes to the opportunity that's all around you.

You can also break down the question by narrowing the focus to a "niche" within Geophysics.

I absolutely need to write things down more. Those are great example questions, some of which touch on areas I haven't really thought about or explored before. Thanks again for your input and reassurance!

 

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[Johnny boy]

Is it scary to think that you're hitting the wall and you just know a lot about rocks?

 

[REV5028]

First of All, congrats on your Ph.D. Do not be disheartened.

Thank you! And thank you for your suggestions. I think there's value in connecting with more people who have earned their doctorates and are 10+ years ahead of me, especially those who started their own businesses. As for a YouTube channel.. I'm pretty shy. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable on camera. Perhaps it's something I could get used to with practice. Anyway, thanks again for your suggestions!

 

[REV5028]

Lasltly I want to say this. I remember at 29-30 feeling like all my peers were so far ahead of me professionally and in life experience. By 33 I had felt I had "caught up" to many of them. I'm 47 now, and "they" feel like they want to catch up to me. Meanwhile I long ago stopped feeling like I am competing with anyone but myself.

My point is, we all have our own life path's to walk. And someday you'll look back and see how one thing led to another and you have this awesome life and dreams are coming true and you wouldn't change a thing. And it'll probably happen faster than you know it. Your journey is really just beginning.

Good luck and hope this helps.

Thank you for this. I think a large part of my panic is that I'm 31 and I'm just starting, while a lot of others have been on their professional and life paths for much longer. It's reassuring to know that it is possible to feel more "caught up" in just a few years, and "ahead" not too much longer after that.

I just have to know what I want, focus, and do what I need to do to get there, regardless of where everyone else is or what they're doing. One foot in front of the other, one step at a time.

 

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[REV5028]

Is it scary to think that you're hitting the wall and you just know a lot about rocks?

Not at all. I don't feel like I'm hitting the wall and I know a lot more than "just about rocks."

 

[BizyDad]

I just have to know what I want, focus, and do what I need to do to get there, regardless of where everyone else is or what they're doing. One foot in front of the other, one step at a time.

I wish more people understood this. And don't you forget it! Lol.

 

[REV5028]

I wish more people understood this. And don't you forget it! Lol.

lol I won't forget!

 

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[Practic]

Thank you for this. I think a large part of my panic is that I'm 31 and I'm just starting, while a lot of others have been on their professional and life paths for much longer. It's reassuring to know that it is possible to feel more "caught up" in just a few years, and "ahead" not too much longer after that.

I just have to know what I want, focus, and do what I need to do to get there, regardless of where everyone else is or what they're doing. One foot in front of the other, one step at a time.

May be this link will be helpful to you

Women on the Go: An interview with 5 women in the industry | Feb. 2003 | CSEG RECORDER

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