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BOOK The reason I don't like Think and Grow Rich...

Discussion in 'Education, Learning, Books' started by Telamon25346, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Telamon25346
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    Telamon25346 Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    I wrote a lot of this already in this thread: Why does everyone love Think and Grow Rich

    !Disclaimer: I am by no means a conspiracy theorist, and I'm not trying to discourage anyone from reading think and grow rich. it's an honest and good book, but I thought I might as well make this post as I believe this is important to anyone reading These types of books. And I'm also very passionate about this information. I'd also like to let this post serve as a reminder that you take everything with a grain of salt, no one knows exactly what will help you get to what you define as success, that's for you to figure out. What you should be looking for in books and on the internet is knowledge, tips, and pointers on how you can reach your goals. now, onto what I discussed:

    My problem with TAGR(think and grow rich) is the "cult" surrounding the author, napoleon hill, People think he unlocked the ONE SECRET to getting rich and he's sharing it with everyone. in summary, his book tells people: think about something you want often enough, in this case being rich, and eventually, it'll happen.

    but here's something really funny:

    Napoleon Hill didn't get rich by believing he would, he was a fraud, a scam artist, and a salesman that wrote some bullshit in a book and sold it to millions of people.

    Don't believe me? here's a rundown:
    • In his first job as an author for the news, He would make up stories whenever something interesting wasn't happening.
    • He then made a lumber business where he would buy lumber on credit, Never pay the suppliers, and then sell it to others.
    • After his fraudulent lumber plan fell apart, he moved to Washington and opened an automotive school, where people would pay him to learn how to work on cars. But really he would use them as free labor to build vehicles he could sell. And after he found out they couldn't build cars well, he turns it into an MLM, where the students could refer other people to the school and earn more money for each person they brought in.
    • He lent out money to students so they could pay him for the school, with a 5% interest.
    • After his school got busted, he moved, got married, and then opened up a "self-help" school which taught people the secrets to success
    • In reality, the school was a scheme to sell stock to investors, the company it was under was worth $1000 or so, but he would sell shares to business owners evaluated at $100,000 or more.
    • He then KEPT the money people invested in the school, and never paid them back.
    • After this, he started a charity that was supposed to help inmates recover and become good members of society. In reality, he started it so he could get one of his mail fraud buddies out of jail. and he also took donations for the charity, but pocketed 100% of them and never gave them to the prison.
    • he then wrote his book "the law of success" which lied about him meeting Andrew Carnegie, being an advisor for Woodrow Wilson, and being an advisor for Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    • He goes bankrupt after spending all the money he earned writing "the law of success", and so he writes another book about success called "think and grow rich" and that starts selling like crazy.
    • he and his wife spend all the money from think and grow rich, and they go bankrupt for the second time in Napoleon hills life.
    • After this, He and His wife continue Doing more scams, In one, he lied to the news about adopting 15 children, and "raising them to be upstanding citizens, free from the corrupting influence of bad parenting that was plaguing the nation." he never adopted any children.
    Essentially, napoleon hill's whole life was full of scams. He continued creating new schemes up until he died in 1821. Napoleon Hill isn't even his real name. his name was Oliver, and he used Napoleon because he was scared for his life of police and government authorities catching him for all his fraudulent activities.

    If you want to read more about it (trust me there's A LOT more), Here's an article over the research of napoleon hills life: https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-untold-story-of-napoleon-hill-the-greatest-self-he-1789385645

    What I'm trying to say here isn't that Think and grow rich is a terrible book, it teaches you about self-confidence and the mindset of setting goals for yourself. but after learning about the author, It's hard for me to believe that the book actually helps you, but instead makes you feel good, and motivates you about entrepreneurship.

    Bottom line: people love what they want to hear. The reason people love TAGR is that it plays to their wet dream of getting rich doing nothing. they think: "there are secrets to success, and this book tells me that I can get there by simply willing it to happen... I've found the jackpot!"
    which is probably why everyone shares it around so much. Even though, the author of the book didn't sit there and will for success to come his way. In truth, the author built a Fastlane business selling people lies about becoming rich.

    In my opinion, I think Napoleon hill has created (or at least influenced) a large problem today, and that's the problem of the "self-help" industry and the gurus enforcing it.
    what napoleon hill did with his many books and schools is essentially invent the "self-help" industry, because of this, people hold him on a pedestal. And now, his influence is everywhere, his influence is in "the law of attraction" and tony robbins, His influence is on people that buy lottery tickets, it's everywhere. Most Gurus today are all their own little napoleon hills, they're all great at feeding to people's hopes to get rich and selling them what they want to hear.

    This whole scenario is one of the many reasons I'm glad I've read Unscripted and TMF. I cannot thank @MJ DeMarco Enough for both of the books (can't wait for the third one this year). This forum and the books have helped me figure out what my purpose in life is, Helped me understand the entrepreneurial world a lot better, and helped me to avoid all the useless SCRIPTED dogma everyone around me enforces.

    tell me what you guys think? Does this make you see think and grow rich in a different light now
     
  2. lowtek
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    lowtek Platinum Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    Forget it.

    Many of the folks here are quite content with double standards.

    Napolean Hill and Robert Kiyosaki are generally regarded as OK, despite being liars or frauds.

    Their modern equivalent, Tai Lopez, has an entire thread dedicated to hating on him.

    It's just proof that otherwise intelligent and decent people aren't always consistent. It's a quirk of humanity, and one that I've come to accept. Very few people value logical consistency as much as I do. Oh well.
     
  3. MJ DeMarco
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    MJ DeMarco Raving Lunatic Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    Yes, and the blockbuster hit "The Secret" essentially copied the book hundreds of years later and used the same formula to repeat the process.

    I only read a few chapters of TAGR, stopped after a few. I couldn't stand it.
     
  4. MJ DeMarco
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    Consistency demands that people stay static and not change.

    When I look at my life I can say that every 5 years I'm a different person. That's because I'm evolving, processing information, and changing to the the dynamics of the world.

    I see things I've said YEARS ago that I wouldn't say today. It's not that I lack consistency, it's that I've changed.

    It's an important distinction.
     
  5. rogue synthetic
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    rogue synthetic * Not actually Rutger Hauer Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Let's assume everything you wrote here is true (I have no reason to doubt it!)

    Should people stop setting goals and taking action to achieve them?

    The question isn't rhetorical, and I don't mean it as silly snark.

    Can you (any generic you) separate ideas and their positive value from the vehicle for them?

    Me, I'm no Hill fanboy. I read TGR once and thought it was okay. You get some of the best and worst sides of the American therapeutic culture in it. I go back to some parts of it from time to time.

    I'm curious as to why (if?) attraction to an idea commits someone to endorsing each and every character trait of its author.

    Human beings are complex and multi-faceted characters. If you demand complete consistency and mathematical precision...well, you're going to spend a lot of hours being disappointed (all of them).
     
  6. lowtek
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    lowtek Platinum Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    Yes, I agree. The people that frequent these parts are not static, and are free to change their minds over time. That doesn't violate consistency, at least not in the sense that I mean. I mean holding two people to different standards, at the same time.

    Also, I wasn't thinking of you in particular. I've never seen you sing the praises of NH, or even Robert Kiyosaki. I wasn't actually thinking of anyone in particular.

    I was referencing the impression I got from the earlier thread by @ChrisV on the same topic. I walked away from the thread somewhat surprised that people don't react the same way to the fraudulent Napolean Hill, as they do to the similar behavior by Tai Lopez.

    Not really intent on starting a flame war here, as again, I just think it's a quirk of human behavior and not something to get my panties in a twist about. Merely an observation about human behavior.
     
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  7. ZCP
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    What are the positives we can take from the book and use in our companies / projects?
     
  8. NMdad
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    NMdad Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    I've consistently found TAGR unreadable. :)
     
  9. NMdad
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    NMdad Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Agree. One thing that I did get from reading Kiyosaki many years ago was the glimmer that there was something possible besides a day job. Kiyosaki, Tai Lopez, etc. are more about selling people products where most of those people end up action faking. TMF, Jay Abraham, Chet Holmes, etc. were way more useful.
     
  10. PizzaOnTheRoof
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    I agree. Ideas should be taken at face value and judged different from the messenger.

    You might hate Tai Lopez the person but agree with the information.
     
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  11. Smuggo
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    I've read that book and even though it wasn't something that affected me much, it still showed me that my thoughts are really imporant.

    The same goes with "The power of your subconscious mind". There is a lot of "magic stuff" like "Think about that bag really often... and maybe somebody will buy it for you or sth." but you can find some flavours that will change the way you think about yourself or world.

    Of course there must be an action. If you are just thinking, nothing will change. But if you combine those two things, you may see some good results.
     
  12. ilidek
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    Does it? Doesn't he says that you have to feel those feelings that goes with it, doesn't he says you have to be willing to risk your life to get rich and put your whole existance on it? Doesn't he says that you have to be extremelly persistent, work for free if necessary to go where you want?


    Secret is more about drawing a pictures or putting photos on the wall. Hill is way more demanding. To feel the emotions while afirmating is way harder than to do wishful thinking. And yes it's damn hard to read.


    My views on Hill book:
    I love persistence part of the book. I totally aggree with it. It's possible that I aggree with it because the only things I ever achieved it's because of persistent. I rarely succed at anything before many strickes (eg. I am trying Wim Hof Method for like 5th time and keep getting some negattive body feedback)

    I did two years of affirmations. First year was my best financial year. I gave up doing affirmations to learn that I've meet 92% of my goal which was becoming milionaire. I've realized it so for last year I did it twice a day every single day (Before I did skipped a day than I was afirmating it 4times next day) this year was perfect and it was worst financial year money wise (great year overall). I am aware that I failed at feeling emotions while afirmating, what was courious I had a feeling that it somehow sabbotaged me. Like saying that I have 2kk made me feel I don't need to go there. So after two years of affirmating I am not huge believer in it. If I could have my worst and best year while affirmating it's simply not important factor. Also it's annoying like hell to afirmate when you are flying, when you are ill, when you are visiting someone. People react weird when they see you talk with the mirror.

    I am very intrigue with sex transformation part. It goes over and over in many different sources, like tantra books, and many spiritual books. Giving up porn, doing it only with your loved ones doesn't seems like huge sacrefices in life quality and it seems to work for me in a possitive way when I am succeding at it. Saying that I way more energetic because of it so it's worth to look at.

    Overall:
    Did I love his book?
    Hell No. I hated reading it. It was hard to concetrate on old english.

    Is this book worth reading?
    Hell yeah. Read it 3-4 times. It gives you a lot to think about. Have his 2nd book. Probably won't read it and probably won't read his 1st book either. I think I got most out of it that I could becuase I want to be more effective in what I do. Putting money as only goal won't help me go where I want to be. Saying that money are supper important.

    Would I recomend it to someone to read at least once?
    Yes.
     
  13. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I wrote a thread similar to this a bit back you might appreciate:

    Napoleon Hill was a notorious Scam artist before writing Think And Grow Rich, arrested many times.

    Napoleon Hill gets special treatment. If they got Tai Lopez’s rap sheet and found as much as a J-Walking ticket on it, people would be all over him like white on a skunk.

    But ThinkGR was an okay book. I mean the stuff about “success not ever being a result of hard work” HA... I’ve busted my a$$ to get where I’m al, and I know that’s true of everyone else on this forum who’s accomplished things they’re proud of. I think a better message is “Heard work is fun and extremely rewarding,” rather than “you can sit back and be positive and let the universe deliver your chromed out Ferrari."

    MJ’s book and what they teach in business school is leagues ahead of TGR.
     
  14. ilidek
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    It never stops to amaze me, how our experience shifts how we see stuff. I never saw this book as: think about something and you will be given.

    Napoleon wrote about a guy who worked for free to get to work for Edision and bring more and more value. He wrote about Ford who was working on something new and was pushing engeniers to parahrase: "Sir, we are working on it for half a year and it's not possible as we said, we didn't find any way to do it", "Good, keep working". He was writing about Lincoln probably who failed multiple times but end up as president. I am sure there were more examples but I've read it more than year ago so... ;)


    For me each of those means keep working on your goals and you gonna get them. I do not understood any of them as think and you will be given mentality.
     
  15. Andy Black
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    Andy Black Any colour, as long as it's red. Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    I liked RDPD when I read it many years ago. It was the first book i read that had anything to do with money, and it was an eye-opener.

    I think I skimmed TAGR and put it down.
     
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  16. LiveEntrepreneur
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    TRAGr Was the worst pile of shit that I've read, besides the book that I recently read which is called "The secret". Which was just as bad, for someone who hates to not finish books. These were bad enough to make me stop.

    It just keep repeating the same point "If you want to be rich you must desire it", the whole law of attraction bullshit. I can't believe how many people actually believe it. It's shocking.
     
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  17. Hijena1
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    Hijena1 Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    That is funny, bought the book few days ago and after 3 chapters I had the same thought.
    After Unscripted, like what am I reading,what is this?
     
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    These kind of books are best-sellers because they say what people want to read and besides that there is a strong promotion around them as " The Secret "

    You can get rich if you want it bad
    You can just attract
     
  19. rogue synthetic
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    This was my takeaway as well, which is why I'm surprised that so many people have taken the message as literally what's on the cover: just think really hard and you'll have a Scrooge McDuck sack of money fall into your lap.

    The reason I'm not down on the book is because its message is about acting to bring about a desired end. The point is that motion has to be directed by purpose if goal-achievement is going to happen. Since most people don't have a purpose, they either run around in circles, moving but never achieving; or they just don't move at all.

    Granted I'm a well-known Pollyanna about books, always looking for the upside, so maybe I'm being too optimistic.
     
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    I started the book last week. I stopped somewhere around Lincoln. I assume that at some point he gets down to something more resembling action.

    People get the secret stuff because the title is Think & Grow Rich. The first chapter is The Power of Thought, the second Desire, and the third Faith.

    When Edwin Barnes is introduced he says: TRULY, "thoughts are things," and powerful things at that, when they are mixed with definiteness of purpose, persistence, and a BURNING DESIRE for their translation into riches, or other material objects.

    I know persistence is in there but it seems like thought and desire are the keywords.

    As a side note, I don't recall reading anywhere that Edwin Barnes ever worked for Edison for free. I think he worked for Edison with the desire of being his partner some day and that did work out for him.

    As for the Ford story, I believe the misinformation is for dramatic effect or simplicity. People where casting monoblock V-8s for at least 10 years before Ford ever said "Do the impossible!" or "Make it so!". Even GM had released the Oakland and the Viking a few years earlier. Don't get me wrong there were several significant advancements made in the creation of the Ford V-8, casting a single 8 cylinder block just wasn't one of them. Maybe it is as simple as a misbelief the way that people believe George Washington Carver created peanut butter. What Ford really did was played to the strengths of Ford. They developed the engine and process in a way that it could be produced cheaply and at scale. Reference

    My major problem is the Kiyosaki problem. It just seems that the edicts and partial truths in the book are not what worked to make Mr. Hill grow rich but rather the book itself did.
     
  21. NuclearPuma
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    1. Your frame of mind drives your behavior, and
    2. Your frame of mind is heavily influenced by your environment and external forces you are exposed to (from which your thoughts are derived).

    Shifts in thoughts and/or environment are required for behavior change.

    Hill is giving you a way to proactively shift your own thoughts rather than relying on some external force like a coach or a FTE. Seems like there is no universal agreement on if affirmations work or not. I believe they have merit.

    The ultimate shift is in one's own self image.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  22. Kung Fu Steve
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    Kung Fu Steve Platinum Contributor Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    I'll sneak in here and give you guys a better book than think and grow rich.

    Are you ready?

    Here we go:

    ================================================================================

    Untitled Book

    ================================================================================
    This book will attempt to answer the question: what makes someone wealthy?

    And to answer this question I've scoured the world. I've tracked down every successful person I could find with one thought in mind: do wealthy people have similar characteristics?

    And after years and years of studies and interviews, I've come to 2 unique discoveries:

    1.) YES, they do have certain things in common.

    In fact, they have 16 characteristics in common.

    Isn't that interesting?

    You want to be wealthy? Then you'd better be born with those 16 characteristics.

    But the second discovery I made was even more phenomenal...

    2.) No one was born with those elements of success.

    What's so astounding about this entire study was that all successful people share these same 16 characteristics... and none of them were born with those characteristics.

    Every successful person developed them.

    5 of those characteristics are so important that I'd like to cover them today:

    ================================================================================
    Chapter 1: Burning Desire

    ================================================================================
    The first characteristic is that they all have a burning desire.

    When we talk about financial freedom. When we talk about having all of the things money can do for us... the question is do you really want that?

    ... or are you saying "yeah, I guess I'd take that" ... is that a burning desire? "I'll take that" ?

    Absolutely not.

    Do you think there might be obstacles to between where you are now and where you'd like to be financially? Absolutely!

    Now what do you think carries some people over obstacles, through them, around them... what is it? It's that burning desire!

    An athlete that says: "I will be the best!"

    And they practice and they practice and they work at it and work at it -- BURNING desire is the thing that carries them through where other people give up.

    Do you REALLY want to be wealthy?

    Do you REALLY want to help other people? Would you be a better human being, a stronger human being if you helped others? Do you really WANT that position of financial independence? That's called a burning desire.

    Does that mean you just flip a switch and say "I've got that down"?

    No, you must DEVELOP a burning desire towards what you want.

    ================================================================================
    Chapter 2: Specialized Knowledge
    ================================================================================​

    People that make a lot of money and become really successful took one area and said "why don't I just concentrate on one area and get REALLY good at that?"

    Bill Gates is a wealthy man, yes? He specialized in software for a personal computer. Is that specialized knowledge?

    I'm just going to specialize in real estate.

    I'm just going to specialize in eCommerce.

    I'm just going to specialize in copy writing.

    Specialized knowledge.


    ================================================================================
    Chapter 3: Discipline
    ================================================================================​

    The third element of success is Discipline.

    When you tell people about your goals, your dreams, are they often supportive? Are they often saying you should be commended for trying to build something?

    If the people around you are trying to tear you down do you think discipline might be an important characteristic in your career?

    If you told someone "there's a process to becoming wealthy and I'm going to learn that process" and they say "no you shouldn't do that" ... are you going to have to have discipline to stick to your decision?


    ================================================================================
    Chapter 4: Decisiveness
    ================================================================================​

    The fourth element that's so important and I want to cover it today: you must become decisive in nature.

    Wealthy people have developed the characteristic of gathering information, analyzing information, and making a decision right there... and STICKING with that decision.

    You must become decisive.

    ================================================================================
    Chapter 5: A Mastermind
    ================================================================================​

    You must surround yourself with other driven, decisive, intelligent people who have certain specialized knowledge that you do not.

    All successful people have built teams of people who care, people who share, people who would help you through your problems.


    ================================================================================
    Conclusion
    ================================================================================
    These elements are so crucial, so critical to your success that you must develop them consistently.

    What do you guys think?

    Pretty good right?
     
    prasmy, harlansjobs, PureA and 8 others like this.
  23. emphasize.v1
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    emphasize.v1 Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane

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    Why bro? Just write what you wish for, read it every morning out loud and the riches will come for sure!

    Jokes aside, I know a few people believing in THE SECRET, one guy even carries fake banknotes in his wallet to attract real money. It's amazing how brainwashing that stuff can be.

    Only good thing that those books do is that they make you believe you can do stuff, make you optimistic, confident and motivated. I guess that can be useful if you do the work, the problem is that most people keep wishing while their a$$ is sunk so deep in the sofa.
     
    Suzanne Bazemore and MJ DeMarco like this.
  24. Sebastya
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    Sebastya Bronze Contributor

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    Normally I'd agree, however chapter 7 & 8 are gold ("Decision", "Persistence") which I found very helpful and still utilize in my day-to-day.
     
  25. Kung Fu Steve
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    Kung Fu Steve Platinum Contributor Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    Oh wait... sorry that was Think and Grow Rich.

    Man I'm feeling like a total a**hole lately...

    Here's where I agree with you:
    • The secret is bullshit.
    • Kiyosaki is a dick.
    • Napolean Hill WASN'T a successful guy.

    The entire premise of the book was that Andrew Carnegie HIRED him to interview other successful people. He was an employee.

    Here's where most of the posts here are just dead wrong:

    • Think and Grow Rich is not the secret.

      In the beginning of the book he writes about a secret that's in this book. Once you get it, you'll become successful. You were supposed to catch on that the secret is OBSESSION. Every successful person they found was absolutely obsessed.... and obsession is far different than sitting on the couch hoping it happens. Literally the entire book is just the "16 traits of successful people"
    Did anyone even READ the book?

    This is yet another case of people taking the opinion or word of someone else and adopting it without doing any research. C'mon guys... we're better than this.
     
    PureA, csalvato, Mshupp and 7 others like this.

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