The reason I don't like Think and Grow Rich...

[MJ DeMarco]

It's just proof that otherwise intelligent and decent people aren't always consistent.

Consistency demands that people stay static and not change.

When I look at my life I can say that every 5 years I'm a different person. That's because I'm evolving, processing information, and changing to the the dynamics of the world.

I see things I've said YEARS ago that I wouldn't say today. It's not that I lack consistency, it's that I've changed.

It's an important distinction.

 

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[Telamon25346]

I wrote a lot of this already in this thread: Why does everyone love Think and Grow Rich

!Disclaimer: I am by no means a conspiracy theorist, and I'm not trying to discourage anyone from reading think and grow rich. it's an honest and good book, but I thought I might as well make this post as I believe this is important to anyone reading These types of books. And I'm also very passionate about this information. I'd also like to let this post serve as a reminder that you take everything with a grain of salt, no one knows exactly what will help you get to what you define as success, that's for you to figure out. What you should be looking for in books and on the internet is knowledge, tips, and pointers on how you can reach your goals. now, onto what I discussed:

My problem with TAGR(think and grow rich) is the "cult" surrounding the author, napoleon hill, People think he unlocked the ONE SECRET to getting rich and he's sharing it with everyone. in summary, his book tells people: think about something you want often enough, in this case being rich, and eventually, it'll happen.

but here's something really funny:

Napoleon Hill didn't get rich by believing he would, he was a fraud, a scam artist, and a salesman that wrote some bullshit in a book and sold it to millions of people.

Don't believe me? here's a rundown:

• In his first job as an author for the news, He would make up stories whenever something interesting wasn't happening.
• He then made a lumber business where he would buy lumber on credit, Never pay the suppliers, and then sell it to others.
• After his fraudulent lumber plan fell apart, he moved to Washington and opened an automotive school, where people would pay him to learn how to work on cars. But really he would use them as free labor to build vehicles he could sell. And after he found out they couldn't build cars well, he turns it into an MLM, where the students could refer other people to the school and earn more money for each person they brought in.
• He lent out money to students so they could pay him for the school, with a 5% interest.
• After his school got busted, he moved, got married, and then opened up a "self-help" school which taught people the secrets to success
• In reality, the school was a scheme to sell stock to investors, the company it was under was worth $1000 or so, but he would sell shares to business owners evaluated at $100,000 or more.
• He then KEPT the money people invested in the school, and never paid them back.
• After this, he started a charity that was supposed to help inmates recover and become good members of society. In reality, he started it so he could get one of his mail fraud buddies out of jail. and he also took donations for the charity, but pocketed 100% of them and never gave them to the prison.
• he then wrote his book "the law of success" which lied about him meeting Andrew Carnegie, being an advisor for Woodrow Wilson, and being an advisor for Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
• He goes bankrupt after spending all the money he earned writing "the law of success", and so he writes another book about success called "think and grow rich" and that starts selling like crazy.
• he and his wife spend all the money from think and grow rich, and they go bankrupt for the second time in Napoleon hills life.
• After this, He and His wife continue Doing more scams, In one, he lied to the news about adopting 15 children, and "raising them to be upstanding citizens, free from the corrupting influence of bad parenting that was plaguing the nation." he never adopted any children.

Essentially, napoleon hill's whole life was full of scams. He continued creating new schemes up until he died in 1821. Napoleon Hill isn't even his real name. his name was Oliver, and he used Napoleon because he was scared for his life of police and government authorities catching him for all his fraudulent activities.

If you want to read more about it (trust me there's A LOT more), Here's an article over the research of napoleon hills life: https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-untold-story-of-napoleon-hill-the-greatest-self-he-1789385645

What I'm trying to say here isn't that Think and grow rich is a terrible book, it teaches you about self-confidence and the mindset of setting goals for yourself. but after learning about the author, It's hard for me to believe that the book actually helps you, but instead makes you feel good, and motivates you about entrepreneurship.

Bottom line: people love what they want to hear. The reason people love TAGR is that it plays to their wet dream of getting rich doing nothing. they think: "there are secrets to success, and this book tells me that I can get there by simply willing it to happen... I've found the jackpot!"
which is probably why everyone shares it around so much. Even though, the author of the book didn't sit there and will for success to come his way. In truth, the author built a Fastlane business selling people lies about becoming rich.

In my opinion, I think Napoleon hill has created (or at least influenced) a large problem today, and that's the problem of the "self-help" industry and the gurus enforcing it.
what napoleon hill did with his many books and schools is essentially invent the "self-help" industry, because of this, people hold him on a pedestal. And now, his influence is everywhere, his influence is in "the law of attraction" and tony robbins, His influence is on people that buy lottery tickets, it's everywhere. Most Gurus today are all their own little napoleon hills, they're all great at feeding to people's hopes to get rich and selling them what they want to hear.

This whole scenario is one of the many reasons I'm glad I've read Unscripted and TMF . I cannot thank @MJ DeMarco Enough for both of the books (can't wait for the third one this year). This forum and the books have helped me figure out what my purpose in life is, Helped me understand the entrepreneurial world a lot better, and helped me to avoid all the useless SCRIPTED dogma everyone around me enforces.

tell me what you guys think? Does this make you see think and grow rich in a different light now

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

I didn’t know he died 116 years before he published the book. That’s impressive.

Please post more often.

I read through the book twice and on subsequent tries I kept stalling after a few chapters. I now realize why and Steve hits it on the head, this book doesn’t lay out the answers on a silver platter which is what everybody is searching for these days.

It's dry. It's written almost 100 years ago. The language was different. How people communicate was massively different.

There's a whole chapter on using sexual desire to achieve your goals. I've read that 50 some times and I *still* have no clue what he was trying to say.

There's a book -- and I forget the name exactly -- but it's like "explaining think and grow rich" and they went through an old analyzed every chapter. It's 4 times as long as the book! They struggle to explain that part, too.

Anyways.

It's becoming more and more clear I'm in the minority on the forum these days.

I've been here for 10 years. It's changed dramatically both positively and negatively.

I posted that thread about significance specifically because there are so many people on this forum that are tearing down ideas, people, and books -- without ever even reading it!

... and then person after person jumps in and says "yeah! F*ck the secret!"

Napolean hill, think and grow rich, andrew Carnegie had nothing to do with this bullshit of manifesting success by thinking about it.

I have no problem with someone talking shit... I do plenty of it myself... but post after post on here is "yeah I didn't read it but it sucks"

Maybe no one else sees it as a problem but here's the way I see it:

I owe a lot to this forum. My best friends I met here. Business partners. I became fairly wealthy due to the advice I have been given over the years.

And if you're going to be a leader here, a contributor, a moderator -- it's my belief that your standards should be higher than everyone else.

Meaning you attack ideas not people.

Meaning you thoroughly understand the ideas you're attacking.

Meaning you research in order to respond properly.

And I mean ZERO disrespect to anyone but what I see is over the years those standards have dropped dramatically.

We used to talk about ideas and how to implement them. We used to quote specific phrases in books and discuss what they mean. We used to ask for opinions on what we were doing. We used to do book club (cool that MJ brought that back). We used to have people who would go research, read 20 books on a subject and come back and write up a report about what they learned.

The best days of this group are not behind us but ahead of us... but it starts with taking a stand against bullshit.

And at the risk of offending everyone on this thread: there's a lot of bullshit.

Yes Robert is a dick. Rich Dad, Poor Dad is one of the best business books ever written.

Yes Napolean Hill wasn't a business owner and arguably an utter failure. Think and Grow Rich is literally the beginning of personal development and has impacted GENERATIONS.
Yes MJ refuses to read new books, yet his book is arguably one of the most brilliant business books (even moreso than RDPD in my eyes) ever written.

Yes Ayn Rand was completely inept in her own life and didn't follow her own philosophy... yet one of the greatest philosophers of our time (whether you agree with her or not).

You probably think I'm a dick. You probably think I have no right to tell you anything -- and I don't. Yet I've read all of these books multiple times.

I'm not a dabbler. I refuse to dabble. I master the subjects I want to learn. That means constant and never ending improvement and that means not accepting the idea that something or someone sucks "just because".

Tell me why. You don't like think and grow rich because of napolean hill? Fine.

But you don't like think and grow rich because of a completely unrelated bunch of snake oil salesmen who created "the secret"?

I read the book. Twice. I watched the movie
I hated it. But I know what they teach so I can debate it.

Anyways, enough of my rambling. Kick me out, tell me to go F*ck myself, but if the health of this forum is important to you (and it sure as hell is to me) we, as leaders, need to step up and raise the standard of what's acceptable and valuable to the community.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Bottom line: people love what they want to hear. The reason people love TAGR is that it plays to their wet dream of getting rich doing nothing. they think: "there are secrets to success, and this book tells me that I can get there by simply willing it to happen... I've found the jackpot!"

Yes, and the blockbuster hit "The Secret" essentially copied the book hundreds of years later and used the same formula to repeat the process.

I only read a few chapters of TAGR, stopped after a few. I couldn't stand it.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

I'll sneak in here and give you guys a better book than think and grow rich.

Are you ready?

Here we go:

================================================================================

Untitled Book

================================================================================
​

This book will attempt to answer the question: what makes someone wealthy?

And to answer this question I've scoured the world. I've tracked down every successful person I could find with one thought in mind: do wealthy people have similar characteristics?

And after years and years of studies and interviews, I've come to 2 unique discoveries:

1.) YES, they do have certain things in common.​

In fact, they have 16 characteristics in common.

Isn't that interesting?

You want to be wealthy? Then you'd better be born with those 16 characteristics.

But the second discovery I made was even more phenomenal...

2.) No one was born with those elements of success. ​

What's so astounding about this entire study was that all successful people share these same 16 characteristics... and none of them were born with those characteristics.

Every successful person developed them.

5 of those characteristics are so important that I'd like to cover them today:

================================================================================
Chapter 1: Burning Desire
================================================================================
​

The first characteristic is that they all have a burning desire.

When we talk about financial freedom. When we talk about having all of the things money can do for us... the question is do you really want that?

... or are you saying "yeah, I guess I'd take that" ... is that a burning desire? "I'll take that" ?

Absolutely not.

Do you think there might be obstacles to between where you are now and where you'd like to be financially? Absolutely!

Now what do you think carries some people over obstacles, through them, around them... what is it? It's that burning desire!

An athlete that says: "I will be the best!"

And they practice and they practice and they work at it and work at it -- BURNING desire is the thing that carries them through where other people give up.

Do you REALLY want to be wealthy?

Do you REALLY want to help other people? Would you be a better human being, a stronger human being if you helped others? Do you really WANT that position of financial independence? That's called a burning desire.

Does that mean you just flip a switch and say "I've got that down"?

No, you must DEVELOP a burning desire towards what you want.

================================================================================
Chapter 2: Specialized Knowledge
================================================================================​

People that make a lot of money and become really successful took one area and said "why don't I just concentrate on one area and get REALLY good at that?"

Bill Gates is a wealthy man, yes? He specialized in software for a personal computer. Is that specialized knowledge?

I'm just going to specialize in real estate.

I'm just going to specialize in eCommerce.

I'm just going to specialize in copy writing.

Specialized knowledge.

================================================================================
Chapter 3: Discipline
================================================================================​

The third element of success is Discipline.

When you tell people about your goals, your dreams, are they often supportive? Are they often saying you should be commended for trying to build something?

If the people around you are trying to tear you down do you think discipline might be an important characteristic in your career?

If you told someone "there's a process to becoming wealthy and I'm going to learn that process" and they say "no you shouldn't do that" ... are you going to have to have discipline to stick to your decision?

================================================================================
Chapter 4: Decisiveness
================================================================================​

The fourth element that's so important and I want to cover it today: you must become decisive in nature.

Wealthy people have developed the characteristic of gathering information, analyzing information, and making a decision right there... and STICKING with that decision.

You must become decisive.

================================================================================
Chapter 5: A Mastermind
================================================================================​

You must surround yourself with other driven, decisive, intelligent people who have certain specialized knowledge that you do not.

All successful people have built teams of people who care, people who share, people who would help you through your problems.

================================================================================
Conclusion
================================================================================
​

These elements are so crucial, so critical to your success that you must develop them consistently.

What do you guys think?

Pretty good right?

 

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[Kung Fu Steve]

I'll sneak in here and give you guys a better book than think and grow rich.

Are you ready?

Here we go:

================================================================================

Untitled Book

================================================================================
​

This book will attempt to answer the question: what makes someone wealthy?

And to answer this question I've scoured the world. I've tracked down every successful person I could find with one thought in mind: do wealthy people have similar characteristics?

And after years and years of studies and interviews, I've come to 2 unique discoveries:

1.) YES, they do have certain things in common.​

In fact, they have 16 characteristics in common.

Isn't that interesting?

You want to be wealthy? Then you'd better be born with those 16 characteristics.

But the second discovery I made was even more phenomenal...

2.) No one was born with those elements of success. ​

What's so astounding about this entire study was that all successful people share these same 16 characteristics... and none of them were born with those characteristics.

Every successful person developed them.

5 of those characteristics are so important that I'd like to cover them today:

================================================================================
Chapter 1: Burning Desire
================================================================================
​

The first characteristic is that they all have a burning desire.

When we talk about financial freedom. When we talk about having all of the things money can do for us... the question is do you really want that?

... or are you saying "yeah, I guess I'd take that" ... is that a burning desire? "I'll take that" ?

Absolutely not.

Do you think there might be obstacles to between where you are now and where you'd like to be financially? Absolutely!

Now what do you think carries some people over obstacles, through them, around them... what is it? It's that burning desire!

An athlete that says: "I will be the best!"

And they practice and they practice and they work at it and work at it -- BURNING desire is the thing that carries them through where other people give up.

Do you REALLY want to be wealthy?

Do you REALLY want to help other people? Would you be a better human being, a stronger human being if you helped others? Do you really WANT that position of financial independence? That's called a burning desire.

Does that mean you just flip a switch and say "I've got that down"?

No, you must DEVELOP a burning desire towards what you want.

================================================================================
Chapter 2: Specialized Knowledge
================================================================================​

People that make a lot of money and become really successful took one area and said "why don't I just concentrate on one area and get REALLY good at that?"

Bill Gates is a wealthy man, yes? He specialized in software for a personal computer. Is that specialized knowledge?

I'm just going to specialize in real estate.

I'm just going to specialize in eCommerce.

I'm just going to specialize in copy writing.

Specialized knowledge.

================================================================================
Chapter 3: Discipline
================================================================================​

The third element of success is Discipline.

When you tell people about your goals, your dreams, are they often supportive? Are they often saying you should be commended for trying to build something?

If the people around you are trying to tear you down do you think discipline might be an important characteristic in your career?

If you told someone "there's a process to becoming wealthy and I'm going to learn that process" and they say "no you shouldn't do that" ... are you going to have to have discipline to stick to your decision?

================================================================================
Chapter 4: Decisiveness
================================================================================​

The fourth element that's so important and I want to cover it today: you must become decisive in nature.

Wealthy people have developed the characteristic of gathering information, analyzing information, and making a decision right there... and STICKING with that decision.

You must become decisive.

================================================================================
Chapter 5: A Mastermind
================================================================================​

You must surround yourself with other driven, decisive, intelligent people who have certain specialized knowledge that you do not.

All successful people have built teams of people who care, people who share, people who would help you through your problems.

================================================================================
Conclusion
================================================================================
​

These elements are so crucial, so critical to your success that you must develop them consistently.

What do you guys think?

Pretty good right?

Oh wait... sorry that was Think and Grow Rich.

Man I'm feeling like a total a**hole lately...

Here's where I agree with you:

• The secret is bullshit.
• Kiyosaki is a dick.
• Napolean Hill WASN'T a successful guy.

The entire premise of the book was that Andrew Carnegie HIRED him to interview other successful people. He was an employee.

Here's where most of the posts here are just dead wrong:

• Think and Grow Rich is not the secret.
  
  In the beginning of the book he writes about a secret that's in this book. Once you get it, you'll become successful. You were supposed to catch on that the secret is OBSESSION. Every successful person they found was absolutely obsessed.... and obsession is far different than sitting on the couch hoping it happens. Literally the entire book is just the "16 traits of successful people"

Did anyone even READ the book?

This is yet another case of people taking the opinion or word of someone else and adopting it without doing any research. C'mon guys... we're better than this.

 

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[NMdad]

Consistency demands that people stay static and not change.

I've consistently found TAGR unreadable.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Yes MJ refuses to read new books

Please allow me to correct you.

Not sure where or how you came to this conclusion.

I read books that help me solve the problem I'm encountering.

When I'm not in the middle of the problem, I then read books that interest me.

When I read books that aren't enlightening me, or teaching me anything new, I drop them. I don't waste my time and I don't allow the sunk cost carry me onward into continuing the mistake.

Just because I don't read books that the mainstream deems "must read!" doesn't mean I don't read new books. I never liked the 4HWW which is another "holier than thou" book you must not cross. And here just recently, the Goggins book is a prime example on why I tend to steer clear from books that are widely hyped by media and culture. I don't consider myself a part of culture, I'm a reluctant bystander. I'm sure in some of the alternate realities of the universe, I'm living in a log cabin in some far off forest.

 

[lowtek]

Forget it.

Many of the folks here are quite content with double standards.

Napolean Hill and Robert Kiyosaki are generally regarded as OK, despite being liars or frauds.

Their modern equivalent, Tai Lopez, has an entire thread dedicated to hating on him.

It's just proof that otherwise intelligent and decent people aren't always consistent. It's a quirk of humanity, and one that I've come to accept. Very few people value logical consistency as much as I do. Oh well.

 

[ZCP]

What are the positives we can take from the book and use in our companies / projects?

 

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[Smuggo]

I've read that book and even though it wasn't something that affected me much, it still showed me that my thoughts are really imporant.

The same goes with "The power of your subconscious mind". There is a lot of "magic stuff" like "Think about that bag really often... and maybe somebody will buy it for you or sth." but you can find some flavours that will change the way you think about yourself or world.

Of course there must be an action. If you are just thinking, nothing will change. But if you combine those two things, you may see some good results.

 

[NuclearPuma]

59 seconds shares research that showed students who visualized studying, did better than students who visualized getting an A. So the first step is to focus on the behavior that is required. The leading measure. If you want to be strong you have to visualize yourself lifting the weights in the gym. If you repeatedly live it out in you're head, eventually your going to be motivated to act it out.

Mini-habits are just acting it out, you slowly build confidence, it snowballs into massive action.

Vision -> Action.

Napoleon Hill states plainly that you must be specific as to what you will do in exchange for the money.

That is exactly what the visualization research findings support! Students who were specific as to what they would do in exchange for the A performed better. You must see yourself in your mind doing that thing.

TAGR is correct about human behavior and lots of research now supports it.

People also focus on this one aspect of the book and dismiss the parts about focusing on a definite plan, specialized knowledge, and the mastermind, that are a really important parts of the equation.

 

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[rogue synthetic]

tell me what you guys think? Does this make you see think and grow rich in a different light now

Let's assume everything you wrote here is true (I have no reason to doubt it!)

Should people stop setting goals and taking action to achieve them?

The question isn't rhetorical, and I don't mean it as silly snark.

Can you (any generic you) separate ideas and their positive value from the vehicle for them?

Me, I'm no Hill fanboy. I read TGR once and thought it was okay. You get some of the best and worst sides of the American therapeutic culture in it. I go back to some parts of it from time to time.

I'm curious as to why (if?) attraction to an idea commits someone to endorsing each and every character trait of its author.

Human beings are complex and multi-faceted characters. If you demand complete consistency and mathematical precision...well, you're going to spend a lot of hours being disappointed (all of them).

 

[NMdad]

Napolean Hill and Robert Kiyosaki are generally regarded as OK, despite being liars or frauds.

Their modern equivalent, Tai Lopez, has an entire thread dedicated to hating on him.

Agree. One thing that I did get from reading Kiyosaki many years ago was the glimmer that there was something possible besides a day job. Kiyosaki, Tai Lopez, etc. are more about selling people products where most of those people end up action faking. TMF , Jay Abraham, Chet Holmes, etc. were way more useful.

 

[MTEE1985]

He continued creating new schemes up until he died in 1821.

I didn’t know he died 116 years before he published the book. That’s impressive.

Man I'm feeling like a total a**hole lately...

Please post more often.

I read through the book twice and on subsequent tries I kept stalling after a few chapters. I now realize why and Steve hits it on the head, this book doesn’t lay out the answers on a silver platter which is what everybody is searching for these days.

 

[Real Deal Denver]

It's dry. It's written almost 100 years ago. The language was different. How people communicate was massively different.

There's a whole chapter on using sexual desire to achieve your goals. I've read that 50 some times and I *still* have no clue what he was trying to say.

There's a book -- and I forget the name exactly -- but it's like "explaining think and grow rich" and they went through an old analyzed every chapter. It's 4 times as long as the book! They struggle to explain that part, too.

Anyways.

It's becoming more and more clear I'm in the minority on the forum these days.

I've been here for 10 years. It's changed dramatically both positively and negatively.

I posted that thread about significance specifically because there are so many people on this forum that are tearing down ideas, people, and books -- without ever even reading it!

... and then person after person jumps in and says "yeah! f*ck the secret!"

Napolean hill, think and grow rich, andrew Carnegie had nothing to do with this bullshit of manifesting success by thinking about it.

I have no problem with someone talking sh*t... I do plenty of it myself... but post after post on here is "yeah I didn't read it but it sucks"

Maybe no one else sees it as a problem but here's the way I see it:

I owe a lot to this forum. My best friends I met here. Business partners. I became fairly wealthy due to the advice I have been given over the years.

And if you're going to be a leader here, a contributor, a moderator -- it's my belief that your standards should be higher than everyone else.

Meaning you attack ideas not people.

Meaning you thoroughly understand the ideas you're attacking.

Meaning you research in order to respond properly.

And I mean ZERO disrespect to anyone but what I see is over the years those standards have dropped dramatically.

We used to talk about ideas and how to implement them. We used to quote specific phrases in books and discuss what they mean. We used to ask for opinions on what we were doing. We used to do book club (cool that MJ brought that back). We used to have people who would go research, read 20 books on a subject and come back and write up a report about what they learned.

The best days of this group are not behind us but ahead of us... but it starts with taking a stand against bullshit.

And at the risk of offending everyone on this thread: there's a lot of bullshit.

Yes Robert is a dick. Rich Dad, Poor Dad is one of the best business books ever written.

Yes Napolean Hill wasn't a business owner and arguably an utter failure. Think and Grow Rich is literally the beginning of personal development and has impacted GENERATIONS.
Yes MJ refuses to read new books, yet his book is arguably one of the most brilliant business books (even moreso than RDPD in my eyes) ever written.

Yes Ayn Rand was completely inept in her own life and didn't follow her own philosophy... yet one of the greatest philosophers of our time (whether you agree with her or not).

You probably think I'm a dick. You probably think I have no right to tell you anything -- and I don't. Yet I've read all of these books multiple times.

I'm not a dabbler. I refuse to dabble. I master the subjects I want to learn. That means constant and never ending improvement and that means not accepting the idea that something or someone sucks "just because".

Tell me why. You don't like think and grow rich because of napolean hill? Fine.

But you don't like think and grow rich because of a completely unrelated bunch of snake oil salesmen who created "the secret"?

I read the book. Twice. I watched the movie
I hated it. But I know what they teach so I can debate it.

Anyways, enough of my rambling. Kick me out, tell me to go f*ck myself, but if the health of this forum is important to you (and it sure as hell is to me) we, as leaders, need to step up and raise the standard of what's acceptable and valuable to the community.

You owe no apologies, even though you're a dick. LOL. Seriously - I'd much rather have an honest friend that respects me and wants me to succeed, so he tells me the way things really are - no matter how bad it may come across.

Who needs phony friends? I have no need, nor desire, to hear comforting words just to feel good. I have my own internal standards that tell me how well I am measuring up. I do need to hear, very badly, the truth. Yes, I know I'm old, fat, and ugly. Good - that's out of the way - now let's get down to business! Some of my best friends are fellow dicks. I do the same for them, as I want them to do for me. And we're both grateful for that too!

First round of drinks is on me Steve when we meet someday. You're much more valuable than you'll ever know.

 

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[TreyAllDay]

I was BIG BIG BIG on affirmations and posted about them here a few times.

Here's the SECRET about them.

They HELP, but they're not the key. This is what made a difference for me:

IDENTITY -> HABITS -> and then AFFIRMATIONS.

I would recommend reading Atomic Habbits or The Habit Loop instead of a book like think and grow rich. The problem about most "Mindset" books is they fail to address identity issues first.

1) Identity: I used to do affirmations, envisioned my ideal life. But unfortunately, I didn't address my IDENTITY first. I was still envisioning my $1,000,000 goal - but I still identified as a failure, so I would never change my habits to match my goal. Now I focus on my identity:

An entrepreneur, a philanthropist, an innovator, a good christian, a great partner/boyfriend and I do things that match those identities, while eliminated behaviors that don't match.

2) Habits: A huge driving factor in our behavior. I struggle with my diet and exercise constantly, but after 3 or 4 days of sticking with it I can go for 20 days. There's LOTS of great literature about how your brain creates tension and FORCES you to want to stick to habits once you start them. It's even BETTER if your habits align with your identity.

3) Last comes affirmations. Supporting statements and envisioning of your goals.

 

[ilidek]

Bottom line: people love what they want to hear. The reason people love TAGR is that it plays to their wet dream of getting rich doing nothing. they think: "there are secrets to success, and this book tells me that I can get there by simply willing it to happen... I've found the jackpot!"
which is probably why everyone shares it around so much. Even though, the author of the book didn't sit there and will for success to come his way. In truth, the author built a Fastlane business selling people lies about becoming rich.

Does it? Doesn't he says that you have to feel those feelings that goes with it, doesn't he says you have to be willing to risk your life to get rich and put your whole existance on it? Doesn't he says that you have to be extremelly persistent, work for free if necessary to go where you want?

Yes, and the blockbuster hit "The Secret" essentially copied the book hundreds of years later and used the same formula to repeat the process.

Secret is more about drawing a pictures or putting photos on the wall. Hill is way more demanding. To feel the emotions while afirmating is way harder than to do wishful thinking. And yes it's damn hard to read.


My views on Hill book:
I love persistence part of the book. I totally aggree with it. It's possible that I aggree with it because the only things I ever achieved it's because of persistent. I rarely succed at anything before many strickes (eg. I am trying Wim Hof Method for like 5th time and keep getting some negattive body feedback)

I did two years of affirmations. First year was my best financial year. I gave up doing affirmations to learn that I've meet 92% of my goal which was becoming milionaire. I've realized it so for last year I did it twice a day every single day (Before I did skipped a day than I was afirmating it 4times next day) this year was perfect and it was worst financial year money wise (great year overall). I am aware that I failed at feeling emotions while afirmating, what was courious I had a feeling that it somehow sabbotaged me. Like saying that I have 2kk made me feel I don't need to go there. So after two years of affirmating I am not huge believer in it. If I could have my worst and best year while affirmating it's simply not important factor. Also it's annoying like hell to afirmate when you are flying, when you are ill, when you are visiting someone. People react weird when they see you talk with the mirror.

I am very intrigue with sex transformation part. It goes over and over in many different sources, like tantra books, and many spiritual books. Giving up porn, doing it only with your loved ones doesn't seems like huge sacrefices in life quality and it seems to work for me in a possitive way when I am succeding at it. Saying that I way more energetic because of it so it's worth to look at.

Overall:
Did I love his book?
Hell No. I hated reading it. It was hard to concetrate on old english.

Is this book worth reading?
Hell yeah. Read it 3-4 times. It gives you a lot to think about. Have his 2nd book. Probably won't read it and probably won't read his 1st book either. I think I got most out of it that I could becuase I want to be more effective in what I do. Putting money as only goal won't help me go where I want to be. Saying that money are supper important.

Would I recomend it to someone to read at least once?
Yes.

 

[ChrisV]

I wrote a lot of this already in this thread: Why does everyone love Think and Grow Rich

!Disclaimer: I am by no means a conspiracy theorist, and I'm not trying to discourage anyone from reading think and grow rich. it's an honest and good book, but I thought I might as well make this post as I believe this is important to anyone reading These types of books. And I'm also very passionate about this information. I'd also like to let this post serve as a reminder that you take everything with a grain of salt, no one knows exactly what will help you get to what you define as success, that's for you to figure out. What you should be looking for in books and on the internet is knowledge, tips, and pointers on how you can reach your goals. now, onto what I discussed:

My problem with TAGR(think and grow rich) is the "cult" surrounding the author, napoleon hill, People think he unlocked the ONE SECRET to getting rich and he's sharing it with everyone. in summary, his book tells people: think about something you want often enough, in this case being rich, and eventually, it'll happen.

but here's something really funny:

Napoleon Hill didn't get rich by believing he would, he was a fraud, a scam artist, and a salesman that wrote some bullshit in a book and sold it to millions of people.

Don't believe me? here's a rundown:

• In his first job as an author for the news, He would make up stories whenever something interesting wasn't happening.
• He then made a lumber business where he would buy lumber on credit, Never pay the suppliers, and then sell it to others.
• After his fraudulent lumber plan fell apart, he moved to Washington and opened an automotive school, where people would pay him to learn how to work on cars. But really he would use them as free labor to build vehicles he could sell. And after he found out they couldn't build cars well, he turns it into an MLM, where the students could refer other people to the school and earn more money for each person they brought in.
• He lent out money to students so they could pay him for the school, with a 5% interest.
• After his school got busted, he moved, got married, and then opened up a "self-help" school which taught people the secrets to success
• In reality, the school was a scheme to sell stock to investors, the company it was under was worth $1000 or so, but he would sell shares to business owners evaluated at $100,000 or more.
• He then KEPT the money people invested in the school, and never paid them back.
• After this, he started a charity that was supposed to help inmates recover and become good members of society. In reality, he started it so he could get one of his mail fraud buddies out of jail. and he also took donations for the charity, but pocketed 100% of them and never gave them to the prison.
• he then wrote his book "the law of success" which lied about him meeting Andrew Carnegie, being an advisor for Woodrow Wilson, and being an advisor for Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
• He goes bankrupt after spending all the money he earned writing "the law of success", and so he writes another book about success called "think and grow rich" and that starts selling like crazy.
• he and his wife spend all the money from think and grow rich, and they go bankrupt for the second time in Napoleon hills life.
• After this, He and His wife continue Doing more scams, In one, he lied to the news about adopting 15 children, and "raising them to be upstanding citizens, free from the corrupting influence of bad parenting that was plaguing the nation." he never adopted any children.

Essentially, napoleon hill's whole life was full of scams. He continued creating new schemes up until he died in 1821. Napoleon Hill isn't even his real name. his name was Oliver, and he used Napoleon because he was scared for his life of police and government authorities catching him for all his fraudulent activities.

If you want to read more about it (trust me there's A LOT more), Here's an article over the research of napoleon hills life: https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-untold-story-of-napoleon-hill-the-greatest-self-he-1789385645

What I'm trying to say here isn't that Think and grow rich is a terrible book, it teaches you about self-confidence and the mindset of setting goals for yourself. but after learning about the author, It's hard for me to believe that the book actually helps you, but instead makes you feel good, and motivates you about entrepreneurship.

Bottom line: people love what they want to hear. The reason people love TAGR is that it plays to their wet dream of getting rich doing nothing. they think: "there are secrets to success, and this book tells me that I can get there by simply willing it to happen... I've found the jackpot!"
which is probably why everyone shares it around so much. Even though, the author of the book didn't sit there and will for success to come his way. In truth, the author built a Fastlane business selling people lies about becoming rich.

In my opinion, I think Napoleon hill has created (or at least influenced) a large problem today, and that's the problem of the "self-help" industry and the gurus enforcing it.
what napoleon hill did with his many books and schools is essentially invent the "self-help" industry, because of this, people hold him on a pedestal. And now, his influence is everywhere, his influence is in "the law of attraction" and tony robbins, His influence is on people that buy lottery tickets, it's everywhere. Most Gurus today are all their own little napoleon hills, they're all great at feeding to people's hopes to get rich and selling them what they want to hear.

This whole scenario is one of the many reasons I'm glad I've read Unscripted and TMF . I cannot thank @MJ DeMarco Enough for both of the books (can't wait for the third one this year). This forum and the books have helped me figure out what my purpose in life is, Helped me understand the entrepreneurial world a lot better, and helped me to avoid all the useless SCRIPTED dogma everyone around me enforces.

tell me what you guys think? Does this make you see think and grow rich in a different light now

I wrote a thread similar to this a bit back you might appreciate:

Napoleon Hill was a notorious Scam artist before writing Think And Grow Rich, arrested many times.

Napoleon Hill gets special treatment. If they got Tai Lopez’s rap sheet and found as much as a J-Walking ticket on it, people would be all over him like white on a skunk.

But ThinkGR was an okay book. I mean the stuff about “success not ever being a result of hard work” HA... I’ve busted my a$$ to get where I’m al, and I know that’s true of everyone else on this forum who’s accomplished things they’re proud of. I think a better message is “Heard work is fun and extremely rewarding,” rather than “you can sit back and be positive and let the universe deliver your chromed out Ferrari."

MJ’s book and what they teach in business school is leagues ahead of TGR.

 

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[ilidek]

It never stops to amaze me, how our experience shifts how we see stuff. I never saw this book as: think about something and you will be given.

Napoleon wrote about a guy who worked for free to get to work for Edision and bring more and more value. He wrote about Ford who was working on something new and was pushing engeniers to parahrase: "Sir, we are working on it for half a year and it's not possible as we said, we didn't find any way to do it", "Good, keep working". He was writing about Lincoln probably who failed multiple times but end up as president. I am sure there were more examples but I've read it more than year ago so...


For me each of those means keep working on your goals and you gonna get them. I do not understood any of them as think and you will be given mentality.

 

[loop101]

Napoleon Hill wrote a book on how to enrich yourself during the Great Depression (Need). He interviewed hundreds of millionaires with help from Andrew Carnegie (Entry). It was his book (Control), and was widely published (Scale). He wrote it in 1937, and it is still available today (Time). For many decades, numerous successful business people have personally thanked him for writing his book. He also had the best title for a business book, ever. If you don't like what he said, maybe just look at what he did.

 

[lowtek]

Consistency demands that people stay static and not change.

When I look at my life I can say that every 5 years I'm a different person. That's because I'm evolving, processing information, and changing to the the dynamics of the world.

I see things I've said YEARS ago that I wouldn't say today. It's not that I lack consistency, it's that I've changed.

It's an important distinction.

Yes, I agree. The people that frequent these parts are not static, and are free to change their minds over time. That doesn't violate consistency, at least not in the sense that I mean. I mean holding two people to different standards, at the same time.

Also, I wasn't thinking of you in particular. I've never seen you sing the praises of NH, or even Robert Kiyosaki. I wasn't actually thinking of anyone in particular.

I was referencing the impression I got from the earlier thread by @ChrisV on the same topic. I walked away from the thread somewhat surprised that people don't react the same way to the fraudulent Napolean Hill, as they do to the similar behavior by Tai Lopez.

Not really intent on starting a flame war here, as again, I just think it's a quirk of human behavior and not something to get my panties in a twist about. Merely an observation about human behavior.

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

Let's assume everything you wrote here is true (I have no reason to doubt it!)

Should people stop setting goals and taking action to achieve them?

The question isn't rhetorical, and I don't mean it as silly snark.

Can you (any generic you) separate ideas and their positive value from the vehicle for them?

Me, I'm no Hill fanboy. I read TGR once and thought it was okay. You get some of the best and worst sides of the American therapeutic culture in it. I go back to some parts of it from time to time.

I'm curious as to why (if?) attraction to an idea commits someone to endorsing each and every character trait of its author.

Human beings are complex and multi-faceted characters. If you demand complete consistency and mathematical precision...well, you're going to spend a lot of hours being disappointed (all of them).

I agree. Ideas should be taken at face value and judged different from the messenger.

You might hate Tai Lopez the person but agree with the information.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

All I'm saying is that before tossing these books to the side because they are too popular (or not popular enough) -- give them a chance before trashing all their work.

Ahh, OK. So not liking or finding value in someone's book (even after several hours and multiple chapters) is now equivalent to "trashing their work" and/or disrespecting that person's body of work. Interesting. I didn't know that by not enjoying 4HWW I was actually, in some defacto implicit kind of way, crucifying/trashing Tim's vast array of accomplishments including his central message which is quite similar to my own. Not sure how you connect those dots, but OK.

In other words Steve, it is possible for someone to love the neighborhood, but not the house.

That's why it boggles my mind you've not given that one a chance.

It boggles my mind that you don't understand that "giving it a chance" might be different for YOU than it is ME. I did give it a chance. A couple hours and several chapters. Just like T&GR.

Obviously we differ on what "giving it a chance" means.

PS: I should also mention that every 5-10 years I tend to re-open books that I never liked and read them with older, more seasoned eyes. I do the same for movies. Same thing applies, if it doesn't resonate early and often, I'm done. But sometimes they read different because I'm different. I'll make sure to peek at it again with older eyes. (Last time I opened it was probably about 8 years ago.)

 

[Mshupp]

Oh wait... sorry that was Think and Grow Rich.

Man I'm feeling like a total a**hole lately...

Here's where I agree with you:

• The secret is bullshit.
• Kiyosaki is a dick.
• Napolean Hill WASN'T a successful guy.

The entire premise of the book was that Andrew Carnegie HIRED him to interview other successful people. He was an employee.

Here's where most of the posts here are just dead wrong:

• Think and Grow Rich is not the secret.
  
  In the beginning of the book he writes about a secret that's in this book. Once you get it, you'll become successful. You were supposed to catch on that the secret is OBSESSION. Every successful person they found was absolutely obsessed.... and obsession is far different than sitting on the couch hoping it happens. Literally the entire book is just the "16 traits of successful people"

Did anyone even READ the book?

This is yet another case of people taking the opinion or word of someone else and adopting it without doing any research. C'mon guys... we're better than this.

Hill tried a lot of things and failed. No question. I heard in a Dan Kennedy interview that it was W. Clemet Stone that saved him in the later years of his life. But the bottom line is the 17 principals he defined and wrote about are timeless principals that the successful men he interviewed at the behest of Andrew Carnegie, practiced. They are the basis of the modern personal development movement.

I learned a long time ago that you can not attach yourself to the man but you can to his work.

In almost every case when you discover the true nature of the man you will be disappointed.

But if the work is something the inspires or gets you to look at things in your life differently then use it to your benefit. Don't get caught up in the Guru worship.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Funny, I re-read TMF before re-editing its 2018 update and didn't like it much. Some parts even embarrassed me. That's how I know I've changed (I believe one should change at least every 5 years, otherwise you aren't evolving) and why I push Unscripted mostly now.

I think we're all a little too hard on ourselves. You have some brilliant stuff in there. Stuff that no one has ever brought up before.

I'm working on my book right now and I'll admit the prospect of having immortalized words and wanting the message to be perfect has really slowed down progress.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think there's a difficult line simply because belief systems change. You say "I believe THIS" and then maybe tomorrow something happens and we're like "shit... maybe not"

 

[GoodluckChuck]

I think Think and Grow Rich is a great book for just about anyone to read. It's full of great points and outlines a method of finding personal success that is definitely good enough to get great results if followed.

It seems like most of the people relating this book to The Secret are a bit confused. Think and Grow Rich is a book about cultivating Desire and taking massive persistent action until goals are achieved, never accepting defeat, and getting what you want. It's not called Wish and Grow Rich... It's Think and Grow Rich. The idea that thought preceeds action is a fundamental truth of being human.

Just because the author wasn't a great guy doesn't make the material less true. It's not like he was talking about being a great person. He was talking about getting rich. Obviously he drank his own coolaid.

I've read hundreds of self help books and this is one of the best. Many have copied ideas from it and rightly so. Most of the material I've found to be very basic and principled knowledge which is imo the best for developing one's own success strategy.

 

[Andy Black]

Agree. One thing that I did get from reading Kiyosaki many years ago was the glimmer that there was something possible besides a day job. Kiyosaki, Tai Lopez, etc. are more about selling people products where most of those people end up action faking. TMF , Jay Abraham, Chet Holmes, etc. were way more useful.

I liked RDPD when I read it many years ago. It was the first book i read that had anything to do with money, and it was an eye-opener.

I think I skimmed TAGR and put it down.

 

[emphasize.v1]

Yes, and the blockbuster hit "The Secret" essentially copied the book hundreds of years later and used the same formula to repeat the process.

I only read a few chapters of TAGR, stopped after a few. I couldn't stand it.

Why bro? Just write what you wish for, read it every morning out loud and the riches will come for sure!

Jokes aside, I know a few people believing in THE SECRET, one guy even carries fake banknotes in his wallet to attract real money. It's amazing how brainwashing that stuff can be.

Only good thing that those books do is that they make you believe you can do stuff, make you optimistic, confident and motivated. I guess that can be useful if you do the work, the problem is that most people keep wishing while their a$$ is sunk so deep in the sofa.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I never even considered what might lie within the worst rated books...

Not worst rated books, just not rated in scale. You won't find them on NYT best-seller lists and you won't find them being hyped on Yahoo Finance or other mainstream outlets. A good example of this (well rated, but not media hyped) are my books. I've never received any mainstream press anywhere, and yet I've sold more than most NYT best-sellers who peek the list for 2 weeks and then disappear into oblivious months/years later.