Lex DeVille's: Guru Cults Exposed: The Tactics "Experts" Use To Pull You In & Suck You Dry

[jcvlds]

manipulation is very large so people have to choose. they can't know it all unless they spend 10 years doing it.

Derren Brown chose to learn mentalism and the exploitation of human cognitive biases

this is a good choice for would be con artirst

the weapon used is the perception deception








the guy is smart. his wrestling champion background shows that he is not afraid to fight for what he wants and lead the field.

same thing that Ryan Deiss and all these gurus of SEO and so on

they are the yang side of internet marketing

But are they delivering the value? Or are their offerings scammy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MetalGear]

@Lex DeVille , I appreciate your thread on marketing gurus. I don't have a background in marketing but I know I need to learn it.

I read Ca$hvertising and am reading Dotcom Secrets by Russel Brunson.

Russel is all about funnels and although the info looks great, your thread on marketing gurus is making me second guess this approach.

Which courses/books do you think ARE useful?

Thanks,
MG

 

[SoftStone]

@Lex DeVille Thanks for the great thread!

How do you judge the value of an information product? Well, besides the fact that it of course has to solve your problem. For example, the stuff I teach (for free), like most other information, can also be found elsewhere. But isn't a unique perspective and a USP (for example, in my case, teaching it as fast as possible to save you time and effort) also value?

I find it hard to evaluate the value of an information product by the uniqueness of its information. Taking the example of CRM systems, there are so many out there, all aiming to achieve the same thing with (mostly) minor differences. After all, it would be weird if there was only one CRM option to choose from, and, in the case of teaching. different people like to learn from different instructors.

Would love to hear your thoughts. Again, thanks for the thread.

 

[Guest12120]

Here is a link to the book about selling via webinars. I have not read it but I saw Ezra Firestone recommend it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D935862/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

 

[guy93777]

gurus are just boring beginners at the game of conning people. only a small percentage of the population will be conned.

if you want to study the real game (it is worth billions of dollars), you should study the psychology of crowd control at the next level.


at least, 90 % of the population will be conned . ( us included )





quick pyramid as usual :

 

[guy93777]

the guru level can bee seen as the first level of military strategy

this is " for dummies " level . it is employed for marketing , business ..

it is considered a joke by the masterminds. child play


for example :

Amazon.com: The 36 Stratagems for Business : Achieve Your Objectives Through Hidden and Unconventional Strategies and Tactics: 9781904879466: von Senger, Harro: Books

Amazon.com: The 36 Stratagems for Business : Achieve Your Objectives Through Hidden and Unconventional Strategies and Tactics: 9781904879466: von Senger, Harro: Books

www.amazon.com

another stuff at this level :






advanced level :

it is employed for conning nations,

superior military strategy level . 99 % of the population don't have a clue what's going on

 

[Datingafter35]

You're browsing Facebook when you see a post with a title like this:

The Biggest Mistake That Held Me Back From Hitting My First $1,000,000...
When I first started my business..........

View attachment 20263

It looks like a blog post. But you see a "read more" icon. So you click it and down pops a story.

​

No harm in reading a story, you think. So you read the first line. But...

...you don't know this harmless sentence ends in a way that opens a loop in the mind that compels you to read more. Before you know it, you've read the third, fourth, and even twenty fifth lines.

By now you know you're reading an ad or maybe not. You may even wonder why you're still reading. But how could you not finish? That's like leaving a murder mystery before the killer is revealed.

When you start a story, you want to finish it.
(unless it sucks like new Star Wars)

When there's a question in your mind, you want to answer it.
(to close the loop)

So you keep reading...

Because the story is good. And it's good because it's about you.

Technically it's the author's story, but strangely, it parallels your own. The struggles, challenges, and failures...it's like you guys live the same lives.

The only part that deviates is where they made 7 figures and you have not.
(yet)

But if you're willing to sit through a Free Master Class, they'll reveal the 5 shifts that changed everything for them and when you get it, your life will change too.

This is how it begins...

Soon you've spent an hour alone watching a guru webinar designed to open your eyes to the error of your ways and show you how simple making millions can be.
(the real purpose is to make you feel good and give you hope)

If only you make those shifts...you'll be rich...and if you want help, the guru (or their team) has set aside time to speak with you to see if you're a fit to work with them to change your life.

But you'd better do it fast because spaces are limited.

So you click a link, fill out an application, and book a call.

Fast forward 3 months and you've spent $10,000 on credit for 8 weeks of training designed to teach you how to do all the things we just talked about. Doesn't matter what you teach in your "business" as long as you follow their "process."
(Also you get access to a Facebook group usually.)

THIS IS HOW GURU CULTS OPERATE...

It's not all that different from a NOT guru cult, which makes it hard to tell the difference. The key difference is one teaches a marketing system as a successful business (but calls it something else). The other teaches processes that open the doors to building a successful business.

Sometimes the funnels they use operate almost exactly the same. The problem with guru cults is they tell you that you can do what you love and be successful while secretly selling you the very system they used to get you to buy from them (rather than selling you their personal processes about how to do what they love and how that made them millions...because it didn't).

It's kind of like an MLM...Juice Plus, Amway, Mary Kay...except people actually do make a lot of money sometimes. As long as you sell the same system you bought to some other poor sap, you'll make back your investment and then some pretty fast (after all it only takes 2 schmoozers at $5,000 each to pay off that $10,000 loan).

At the top levels this works well. The marketing gurus at the top have a lot of money to spend figuring out how to get people to spend money. It works well at the second level too, because the people buying from the top gurus have plenty of money to spend. They get their water from the well. It's when you get to the 3rd level and beyond that things start to go to shit.

At the 3rd level you've got marketing training mixed with "business" and "branding" and "spiritual awakenings." Now things start to get muddy. These people still sell the dream, but they don't have as much money to spend on training, or marketing, so they turn to their personal network and start there.

At first they make a few sales from friends or family (this is what the top-tier gurus suggest they do to gain traction fast). But soon they run out of people to sell to and they stop making money.

So they turn back to the marketing systems. They try Facebook ads but don't have much to spend, so it doesn't work very well. They try promoting themselves all over Facebook and social media but that doesn't work well either. Also, by this time it's been so long since they first started this path, that they forgot half the shit they learned in their training...

The only logical solution therefore is to return to their guru because they've "tried everything" but something still holds them back (you'll find that line in their customer emails). Lucky for them, the guru is hosting a 2 day seminar in the Himalayas and it's just $30,000 to attend................

Anyone notice a pattern?

Anyway...

There are plenty of legit coaches, courses and trainings out there. There's also a F*ck ton of bullshit gurus and wannabes selling crackpot systems they don't understand to people they can't help.

In the posts that follow (and when I have time) I'm going to break down each part of the guru funnels, and the tactics and techniques they use to indoctrinate you into their cults and keep you there while practically stealing your cash.

Hopefully this thread will save some of you a lot of wasted time and cash, and help you make good judgments and buying decisions anytime you consider a training moving forward.

WHERE DID I GET THESE SECRET INSIGHTS?

I've worked directly with gurus at all levels. Built their funnels. Wrote their copy. Trained their students, and even launched courses and coaching programs of my own using some of their methods.

Also, I've bought courses from gurus, and through a rigorous process of due diligence have managed to only purchase useful shit up to this point. So hopefully some of those insights will help you.

Anyway, if you have any questions about gurus, or about a program you're considering taking, feel free to post them here. It's been a while since I spent time giving value to this forum, and this seems like a fair way to give back.

Even if you don't have questions right now, maybe you'll learn something from the posts that follow.

In the next post we'll look at some guru ads and break down different psychological tactics of influence and persuasion used to pull you in and suck you dry.

If that interests you, stay tuned...

P.S.

Look again at the ad above. Is it a BS guru, or does she sell a legit training program that might be useful for you? Consider it carefully. I'll tell you the answer in the next post.

@Andy Black @MJ DeMarco

Could you move this to the outside. Sorry about that. Thought I double checked and had it in the right forum.

Because it works. But what would be the right way? Frank Kerns approach?

 

[Anit999]

How a prospect might describe a problem in a Facebook Group post:
"I've tried to get coaching clients for a year, but I feel like I'm stuck in mud spinning my wheels."

How the guru capitalizes on that information in their marketing materials:
"Are you struggling to get coaching clients? Have you tried to get clients for a year or more? Does it feel like you're stuck in mud spinning your wheels? If any of this sounds like you, then read this..."

You just blew my mind @Lex DeVille . Thanks for the info you are providing

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Anit999]

ENTER THE CULT - THE NEARLY UNSTOPPABLE POWER OF WEBINARS ​

Tier 1 gurus teach most of their techniques to students. They'll show you how to use Authority and Future Pacing and Framing. But there's one thing they won't tell you. No Tier 1 guru ever mentions how they studied cult indoctrination. They also don't mention how those techniques are applied in their webinars (as well as every webinar their students create).

Lucky for you, I'm the guy who trained their students how to structure, write, and build their webinars for maximum impact. And fair warning...I've studied cult indoctrination.

So today's lesson is on webinars. I'll show you both sides of the technique patterns. From influence and persuasion, to NLP, and finally cult indoctrination. We may have to break this one into multiple parts.

WEBINARS HAPPEN IN PHASES

Any Guru who's been trained doesn't just make a webinar. There's a structure and format they follow. It's been tried and tested over many years even before the internet. Digital marketing has simply optimized it. A couple things you need to know:

1) Most webinars are NOT designed to give you answers (they create questions).
2) Most webinars are NOT meant to give value (they're meant to sell to you).
3) Most webinars are structured to shift you from curious onlooker to card ready buyer.

Breaking down a full webinar slide by slide would take forever. So we'll look at the sections you'll find in most webinars instead. This will give you a high-level overview that you can carry forward if ever you find yourself in a webinar funnel. The phases of a webinar are:

Phase 0 - Pre Webinar
Phase 1 - Introduction, Targeting, & Promises
Phase 2 - Reframing, Future Pacing, & Authority
Phase 3 - The Magical Life-Altering Shifts
Phase 4 - Recap, The Choice, Close



PHASE 0 - PRE WEBINAR

Pre-webinar happens when you first enter the room. You open the screen and you either get a live person or not. Either way, the speaker begins establishing authority instantly before the webinar starts. They do this by saying, "Hi John, Hi Mark, Hi Cindy...we'll get started in a moment."

Usually you won't have access to the other participants. You might not have any way to know if this webinar is pre-recorded or live. But the speaker mentions people by name so everyone watching knows (believes) there are other people watching even if no one else is there (including the speaker lol!).

This technique helps put you at ease. You feel like you're not the only fool in the room. Plus, if others are watching, this person must be someone others thought was worth listening to. So maybe it's worth a few more minutes of your time, because who knows...this might be the webinar that changes everything for you.

This tactic is especially useful for unknown gurus, but even well-knowns use it.

One other thing that happens in this phase is the guru says something like:

"To get the most out of this webinar, be sure to silence your phone and close out other screens. Make sure you have time to watch in a quiet place away from other distractions. Give me your undivided attention so you can come away with profound insights."

Yes, they want your attention, but there's more to it than that. By closing out other distractions, you don't just give your attention. You give your focused attention to the ideas they want you to consume (mainly that following their words and their system will pave the way to riches). This is another Cialdini approved presuasion method.



PHASE 1 - TARGETING & PROMISES

When the webinar begins, the speaker either gives a very brief introduction, or skips it for now. Then they go straight into targeting so they can grab their ideal client's attention. This happens in one to two slides usually titled "Who This Is For."

Who This Is For:

This is for anyone who wants to make millions selling books about topics they aren't qualified to sell. Coaches, consultants, NLP practitioners, middle age dude with the beer gut watching from your couch in your underwear. If you use insights you don't have to create unique breakthroughs for other people, then this is for you...​

If you fit the description, then they have your attention, even if only for a moment. After that the webinar continues straight into promises. First a series of slides with small promises and then a big promise at the end.

My Promise To You:

Today I'll show you how to turn your ability to use vague language and minimal research to build a 6-figure business selling kindle books even if that seems impossible right now. I'll show you how to become a best-selling author practically overnight without spending years learning the trade. I'll also show you how to put yourself on a path to your first $1,000 $2,000 or $10,000 months as quickly as possible.

My promise to you is to show you a step-by-step strategy to 6 figures per month.

​

The promises are always something they know their ideal target wants. They know this because they've researched it (as you've already seen). They've spent time figuring out exactly what this person wants to hear and conveniently, that's exactly what they say.

At this point your interest is peaked, but you're still skeptical and cautious. You know at some point they'll probably try to sell you something. Gurus know you know this. Which is why the next slide is this...

There Is Nothing For Sell
But if you stay to the end, you will get a free gift.
​

This isn't a lie. There's nothing for sell...on this webinar. But by the end they will pitch for your cash. This slide is to help you drop your guard for now. It also uses future pacing to incentivize you to stay to the end.

Before they can sell to you, they have to get you to be open to the idea of being sold to. That starts by changing your beliefs about what this webinar is. Once you believe there's nothing for sale you have no reason not to believe this webinar might actually offer real value.



PHASE 2 - REFRAME, FUTURE PACING, SUMMARY, AUTHORITY

Knowing there's nothing for sale, and there's a gift at the end, you become more interested. A key moment opens up, and now the webinar hits you in the gut with pain points. So the next couple of slides cover your pains as you describe them.

Does This Sound Like You?

Do you write long direct-response stories on popular forums about your expertise, but still people won't buy? Do you post direct response paid ads, and sometimes people buy, but you don't make millions? Do you have some months where cash pours in, but you can't maintain it? Are you struggling to bring in a consistent flow of clients no matter how hard you try?

DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE 100% ON THE RIGHT PATH BUT NOBODY CARES?

​

So they've brought you face to face with your pain. They've said all the things you say to yourself when you're laying in bed at night. They replace your "whys?" with their "do you?"

And then they blow your mind...

THE REAL PROBLEM?
You haven't made the "shifts" yet...
​

OH SNAP!

This simple reframe is a real eye-opener. It says everything you thought was the problem, isn't the real problem. Since you were wrong about the problem, it suddenly makes sense why your solutions didn't work. But now you have a question...what are the shifts??? dun dun dun...

Right after that slide you'll move into future pacing slides. They won't tell you what the shifts are just yet. Instead, they tell you what you'll get once you make those shifts. This allows you to imagine that future and how much better it will be.

There's another NLP technique used here too. It's called a presupposition. Presuppositions are assumptions about events that will occur. In this case it is presupposed that you will be making these shifts at some point. Sales gurus would call it assuming the sale.

ONCE YOU MAKE IT...

You'll be able to package your overnight insights into 2,000 word ebooks that break the payment system from so many buyers. You'll have as many clients as you want every single month on autopilot without you doing anything. You'll hit 6 or 7 or 12-figures whenever you're ready for it. Your bank account will skyrocket and you'll be able to afford a biosphere home on the moon. AND you'll do all of this while remembering the beautiful joy of what it means to be a true entrepreneur.

​

By now the webinar is about a 3rd of the way complete. At this point you might start to wonder if you're getting anywhere. Gurus know this.

So they move into the final part of Phase 2, authority. This is where they finally introduce themselves. They throw whatever credibility markers at you that they've got. The purpose is to prove that they are someone worth listening to, and that they can therefore help you out.

Who I Am:

I'm an NLP Master Practitioner with years of study. I've had 100,000 app downloads. I've played poker with @MJ DeMarco. I've talked to 100's of women all over the world. I've completely eliminated phobias in at least 5 people who wouldn't publicly disagree.


​

Credibility establishes authority. People listen to authorities. Credibility markers are things like big numbers, name dropping, places they've worked or been featured (Forbes, Entrepreneur) important titles, testimonials, downloads, likes, shares, etc.......

Tier 1 and Tier 2 gurus are more likely to use actually sales numbers to establish authority. Tier 3 and 4 use more vague concepts like app downloads, or number of likes and shares, so they don't have to straight up lie about sales achievements.

One other thing I've seen Tier 1 and 2 gurus add recently is some pictures of their family. They'll have a slide covering some awesome vacation they took. This helps you feel like they're a real person just like you who's just trying to give their family a good life. It also implies what the viewer will have once they make the shifts.

​

PHASE 3 - THE MAGICAL LIFE-ALTERING SHIFTS

And so...we finally reach the shifts.

The 5 (or 7 or 10 or 3) Shifts (or changes, or steps, or leaps) consume a major portion of the rest of the webinar. This is the supposed "meat and potatoes" you signed up for. Really this is just the part where they change how you think about the purchase you'll later make.

Each shift, like every other part of the webinar, follows a specific structure and contains specific information in a series of slides. With many of my past clients we used the following tactics in these slides:

1) Shock
2) Support
3) Stakes
4) Stuff
5) Story
6) Summary

Shock - They say something shocking or unexpected to get attention.
Support - They back up what they say with some kind of evidence.
Stakes - They let you know what's at stake if you do this or if you don't do this.
Stuff - This is the tiny little part of the webinar where they might teach you something of value.
Story - They reinforce what they just taught you with a story or testimonial.
Summary - They summarize the whole thing.

The structure of the 5 shifts is done in a way that lowers your guard, and prepares you to take the correct actions later on in the funnel. For that reason, you'll find the shifts usually go something like this:

SHIFT 1 - ALWAYS TRY TO HELP PEOPLE
This isn't about you helping people. It's about you believing they help people.

SHIFT 2 - CHARGE A PREMIUM
This isn't about you charging a premium. It's about you beginning to understand and accept that they charge a premium.

SHIFT 3 - USE THE SECRET TOOL
The secret tool...is webinars, and you have to agree that it works because you're still watching it!

SHIFT 4 - LEVERAGE YOUR TIME
This shift describes separating your time from your pay. But it's really about them subtly overcoming your objection to spending X amount for something that doesn't take that much time for them to deliver.

SHIFT 5 - INVEST IN MENTORING
The final shift is ALWAYS to invest in mentoring. Mentoring gives you accountability and insights and blah blah blah. If you really want to hit 12-figures, you'll need a mentor.

As you can see, these shifts are NOT designed to HELP you. They're designed to SELL you. More specifically, they prep you to be open and accepting of the upcoming sales pitch.



PHASE 4 - RECAP, A CHOICE, THE CLOSE

When you get past the 5 shifts, you're feeling good. You feel confident. You feel excited. You've just discovered some crazy insights (or so you believe). Good luck implementing them without a mentor though...

You feel a sort of high at this point. Part has to do with the webinar information. Another part has to do with the speaker him or herself. Tier 1 & 2 gurus know how to change the speed, pitch, and tone of their voice to hype you up (even though they'll say they don't do that anymore because it wasn't an ethical way to sell).

FYI...they still do it.

So now there's a couple of slides that recap the entire 5 shifts to remind you of everything you just learned, and also to explain how the guru delivered what they promised (so you don't feel cheated). Then you get a slide that says you have a choice.

Now You Have A Choice:

You can keep reverse engineering funnel after funnel, going nowhere in life, making shit pay, and having no clients and no food on the table OR....
​

AND FINALLY...

The truth comes out. Once they remind you of how shitty life is right now, they drop this bomb on you...

Here's How I Can Help:

My team and I have set aside some time to talk with you about how you can apply these ideas in your business today! And the best part? It's totally FREE!
​

After that you're almost done. You've only got a couple more slides. The final slides get more specific with targeting. You'll usually have the following:

Who This Is For
Says things about you that you would agree are true.

Who This Is Not For
Describes the kind of person you don't want to think of yourself as.

Why We're Doing This
This slide is where they first mention selling to you. They say on the call they'll talk with you about your strategy (And they will, but they won't help you refine it. We'll cover that later) and if you both think you're a fit, they may invite you to become one of the new clients they accept this month (the words "this month" add a scarcity element).

If We Work Together
This is a future pacing slide that also lets you know there will be expectations of you if you get accepted (you will be expected to conform to their standards). Again they play on scarcity and ego too. The very fact you could be denied compels you to be among the first to get your free call.

Call To Action
The final slide of the webinar is a call to action. For Tier 3 & 4 gurus, this often goes to a sales page. Tier 1 and 2 gurus know it's better to send people straight to a booking page for a call (because $10,000+ sales happen on calls).


AND THAT'S THE WAY THE COOKIE CRUMBLES BABY...

By the end of the webinar, you've gone from skeptic who's never heard of the speaker, to extremely interested, motivated, informed prospect who needs to take action RIGHT NOW before you miss your chance to get your FREE strategy session where you'll learn how you can start to apply the 5 shifts to your business (remember one of those includes getting mentoring!).

Whew...

That was quite a read.

A little bit later we'll talk more on some of the cult indoctrination that's taking place here. I'll probably just do an entire lesson that brings all of those pieces together after we finish the main funnel topics.

Up next...

The FREE Strategy Call

Stay tuned...

P.S.

Imagine you weren't a savvy Fastlane entrepreneur...you hate your job and your life. You don't know about process. You still search for events. Can you see how easy it would be to "fall" for a webinar after reading the post above? But it can happen just as easily to Fastlaners too, and that's why we're talking about it. Never think it can't happen to you. You'll be the first person it happens to.

Been in a situation like this. Can identify with that. Thanks for the info @Lex DeVille . Really mind opening

 

[Anit999]

This guy makes me sick

View: https://youtu.be/9MCTL3xOUeU

He kind of really pushed hard on clicking the button. haha!! Funny

 

[Anit999]

?

Ps: I got quite interested in the "people are not logical when buying" - where can I read more about it?

.You can read "Alchemy: The dark art and curious science of creating magic in brands, business and life" by rory sutherland

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[LuckyPup]

I've spent way too much money on useless shit in my lifetime.

I'll get all excited about learning a new skill or business model, but when the time comes to actually put myself out there, my self-identity is incongruent and the imposter syndrome kicks in to self-sabotage (usually by just procrastinating until the project grinds to a halt).

Here's my problem with the cop out excuse of "I just give you the tools, it's on YOU if you succeed or fail"

... That's not how the product was originally marketed. The guru made it seem like this level of success was achievable from where I currently am... right here right now. They marketed a complete system to take me from zero to hero.

And if I was just some anomaly, fundamentally broken and unable to make anything work, then fine... But when the majority (i.e. nearly ALL) of the 'students' fail to make any money, then the guru can't just wash his hands and say 'well you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink'.

At some point, the SYSTEM failed.

This kind of pointing the blame on the 'victim' is a textbook MLM tactic. "YOU need to work harder", "YOU need to be more positive". It's total gaslighting and invalidating the student's experience of the system being fundamentally flawed.

Maybe someone will eventually come up with the mindset magic bullet that 'fixes' people and has a real transformative effect. But as of now they don't. If a student is successful after taking a program, they would've been succesful without a program. There is no real transformation taking place, and the guru cannot wash their hands of that since that is what was promised.

I've been burned on self-help for over 10 years now, so maybe I'm just bitter. I actually started going to actual therapy, with a real qualified professional, and for the first time I am actually making some headway on all my inner self-esteem issues that need to be handled before anything else.

I agree with your thesis. You make an interesting point about your self-identity being incongruent with whatever it is you're attempting. Mind elaborating?

 

[JustMorpheus]

I almost fall victim over these famous "gurus." First, they (richdad) make you listen to their show every single day. It becomes very repetitive with little to no new content or specificity. Then, they tell you that the best way to invest is in you by buying books, going to seminars, etc. I called to receive more information about mentorship and the person I spoke with said "we will see because we need to find out if YOU are a match for out program." They hand you to another sales-person who will hook you in for four-five grand in mentorship which lasts three-four months. For the following weeks, they called me several times but I did not answer to sign up. Now I realized why the person I spoke with asked me about my financial situation and how much credit I had available.

I'm glad you realized your situation! I too also almost fell into the trap of buying books from gurus. After I had read RichDadPoorDad, I added a few other books to his book list. But I watched a video on YouTube by "alux" that completely opened my eyes. Like MJ DeMarco said: The gurus make money not form their own advice, but from SELLING their advice. We were tricked lmao.

 

[Charnell]

So as soon as people think someone has *secret knowledge,* they will flock to that person, hoping for a shortcut, ready to shell out cash for courses because... "I'll just repay the $20k credit card debt when I make my first billion with that NFETHWEB3 thingy or whatever you know?"

Back in the winter of 2017 when bitcoin went up to $17k or however much my mom got involved in a bitcoin MLM scheme...nothing legit at all, not even affiliate stuff, but sign up your friends type junk. Of course, after the 22nd of December, she lost interest in it.

 

[Andy Black]

His writing on twitter and sales page seem a bit more articulate than the way he speaks in the videos.

I’d say that’s normal. I mean, have you heard my rambling when I chat with folks?

 

[flyingguitarist]

What do you think about Dan Koe? I see him using all hypnotic language, vague works to buy his course

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[LuckyPup]

LOL I paid for this !

Can't stand that guy.