How to Build and Grow a Newsletter as a Business Model

[MTF]

For F*ck's sake, Beehiiv is a piece of TRASH. Don't use it. And for anyone googling, let me put it this way:

"beehiiv not worth it"
"beehiiv doesn't work"
"beehiiv scam"
"beehiiv alternatives"

Problems I've had in the last few days:

• Segmenting by clicks is only possible by any link clicked in the message. So you can't segment people based on a specific link they click. This is a basic feature of any email marketing software.
• I couldn't import my subscribers from a csv because it was supposedly empty. So I had to turn the csv into a comma separated list and paste it manually.
• People can't update their email addresses themselves. I can't even do it in the admin panel. Their shitty support has to do it on their end. This is like the most basic feature ever.
• My subscribers are now receiving my automated welcome sequence twice due to some bug. I only learned about it now. Even though I sent an urgent support ticket, I probably won't get this fixed until Monday so 21,000 people on my list will now get duplicate emails for the next 3 days.

I regret ever moving to this stupid platform. If their marketing tools work as spectacularly as their shitty software then I'll move to another email marketing provider and demand a refund for selling a half-finished product. It's just ridiculous how every day I discover another bug or missing basic feature.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

People can't update their email addresses themselves.

I found this unbelievable. I consolidate all my newsletters so they go to one email address. Those using behiiv make it impossible to update/change the email. Even unsubscribing, and then resubscribing (as a workaround) was a pain Ultimately, I just unsubscribe.

Sounds like Behiiv is trash.
But their marketing program is spectacular because people keep using it.

 

[MTF]

Those using behiiv make it impossible to update/change the email. Even unsubscribing, and then resubscribing (as a workaround) was a pain Ultimately, I just unsubscribe.

Yep, exactly that. I had to remove a subscriber and add him manually again. But now another subscriber asked to do the same. I can't remove them after a while because it resets the entire automation sequence and all their behavior which I would like to use for segmenting. So I need to keep sending support tickets. I've been sending a ticket a day for the past few days.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

For F*ck's sake, Beehiiv is a piece of TRASH. Don't use it. And for anyone googling, let me put it this way:

"beehiiv not worth it"
"beehiiv doesn't work"
"beehiiv scam"
"beehiiv alternatives"

Problems I've had in the last few days:

• Segmenting by clicks is only possible by any link clicked in the message. So you can't segment people based on a specific link they click. This is a basic feature of any email marketing software.
• I couldn't import my subscribers from a csv because it was supposedly empty. So I had to turn the csv into a comma separated list and paste it manually.
• People can't update their email addresses themselves. I can't even do it in the admin panel. Their shitty support has to do it on their end. This is like the most basic feature ever.
• My subscribers are now receiving my automated welcome sequence twice due to some bug. I only learned about it now. Even though I sent an urgent support ticket, I probably won't get this fixed until Monday so 21,000 people on my list will now get duplicate emails for the next 3 days.

I regret ever moving to this stupid platform. If their marketing tools work as spectacularly as their shitty software then I'll move to another email marketing provider and demand a refund for selling a half-finished product. It's just ridiculous how every day I discover another bug or missing basic feature.

What are you shifting to?

It seems MailerLite or ActiveCampaign tend to be the best for starters, and Infusionsoft the best for advanced users. ActiveCampaign has more advanced automation/segmentation features, but... MailerLite seems quite comprehensive and easier to use. I think @MJ DeMarco also uses MailerLite.

Since you've introduced my to that "This is Personal" book a few days ago, I've already devoured it, AND created a welcome series + LBPS as he recommends, AND switched to MailerLite from Aweber (which will be completed today – I may actually regret not shifting to ActiveCampaign later, but oh well, ACTION!).

As I told you, you say something, I don't even think about it – just take action. A coach would love me to be their student – I can bet they almost never came across such a specimen LOL! It's like they get mid-sentence, and I'm already up and running to take action (as a coach myself, I never came across such a student personally).

 

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[Andy Black]

What are you shifting to?

It seems MailerLite or ActiveCampaign tend to be the best for starters, and Infusionsoft the best for advanced users. ActiveCampaign has more advanced automation/segmentation features, but... MailerLite seems quite comprehensive and easier to use. I think @MJ DeMarco also uses MailerLite.

Since you've introduced my to that "This is Personal" book a few days ago, I've already devoured it, AND created a welcome series + LBPS as he recommends, AND switched to MailerLite from Aweber (which will be completed today).

As I told you, you say something, I don't even think about it – just take action.

I think @Cameraman replied recently with his simple solution.

I'm still using New Zenler to send emails to my subscribers. It's easy and I'm already paying for it.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I think @Cameraman replied recently with his simple solution.

I'm still using New Zenler to send emails to my subscribers. It's easy and I'm already paying for it.

At the moment, I have it split between buyer and non-buyer.

For active buyers, New Zenler sends emails.

For non-buyers Aweber (and soon MailerLite).

There's fancy stuff you can't do in New Zenler.

For example... atm I'm asking people after they optin to my newsletter or get a lead magnet to tell me about their specific situation so I can personalize the advice. Then they answer 3 multiple choice questions, and based on the answers, they see different content inside every email they get.

This sort of functionality cannot be achieved easily with a direct plugin or New Zenler – so that's why I'm using something else. Both ActiveCampaign and MailerLite can do this, but I prefer MailerLite because it's so easy to use atm.

A sequence for accountability + referrals + testimonials + upsells + education + new content opening up needs to be created in New Zenler for my buyers. I will need the help of a copywriting genius to do this, since I don't have any time, and I'm too much "in the weeds" to be able to see from a client's perspective who is new to my system. If you know anyone, tell them to contact me please.

 

[Andy Black]

At the moment, I have it split between buyer and non-buyer.

For active buyers, New Zenler sends emails.

For non-buyers Aweber (and soon MailerLite).

There's fancy stuff you can't do in New Zenler.

For example... atm I'm asking people after they optin to my newsletter or get a lead magnet to tell me about their specific situation so I can personalize the advice. Then they answer 3 multiple choice questions, and based on the answers, they see different content inside every email they get.

This sort of functionality cannot be achieved easily with a direct plugin or New Zenler – so that's why I'm using something else. Both ActiveCampaign and MailerLite can do this, but I prefer MailerLite because it's so easy to use atm.

A sequence for accountability + referrals + testimonials + upsells + education + new content opening up needs to be created in New Zenler for my buyers. I will need the help of a copywriting genius to do this, since I don't have any time, and I'm too much "in the weeds" to be able to see from a client's perspective who is new to my system. If you know anyone, tell them to contact me please.

Ah yes, I don't do anything fancy. I just send a welcome email and then newsletters. New Zenler is easy for that.

I don't think I tried MailerLite. I tried ActiveCampaign in the past but found it confusing.

 

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[MTF]

What are you shifting to?

At the moment I'm staying there as another move will piss off my subscribers and probably ruin my domain reputation. I used MailerLite before (it also had some annoying aspects) and AWeber (old school but probably the best). I also briefly used ConvertKit but didn't like it for some reason.

As I told you, you say something, I don't even think about it – just take action. A coach would love me to be their student – I can bet they almost never came across such a specimen LOL! It's like they get mid-sentence, and I'm already up and running to take action (as a coach myself, I never came across such a student personally).

Damn man I'm impressed. That's awesome. I'm really curious how it will work for you.

 

[Timmy C]

+ 1 for mailerlite, I am using them and it's completely free up to the first 1000 subscribers.

You can also create automations on that free plan, and unlike other providers that offer a free plan it doesn't really have many limitations at all.

The only downside to mailerlite I have found is it doesn't integrate with other tools well.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

+1 on MailerLite.

And I've been through half-dozen different options, including the stalwarts like ConvertKit that everyone loves to recommend. I couldn't deal with it, and don't get me started on MailCheat(Chimp).

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

At the moment I'm staying there as another move will piss off my subscribers and probably ruin my domain reputation. I used MailerLite before (it also had some annoying aspects) and AWeber (old school but probably the best). I also briefly used ConvertKit but didn't like it for some reason.



Damn man I'm impressed. That's awesome. I'm really curious how it will work for you.

Thank you, I'm always really fast with things like this. One evening, I was chatting with @Andy Black and he referred me to this agency guru whom he liked who recommended a demand fulfilment type of ad and simple process for getting customers and pointed me to this 2-hour masterclass. I watched it that evening, and the next day, I was already testing it, and spent like $500 testing it, with no results, before stopping in the next 10 days.

I'm always really fast to try new ideas.

+ 1 for mailerlite, I am using them and it's completely free up to the first 1000 subscribers.

You can also create automations on that free plan, and unlike other providers that offer a free plan it doesn't really have many limitations at all.

The only downside to mailerlite I have found is it doesn't integrate with other tools well.

Their API though is really easy to use. I wrote custom code in my case to integrate it fully, so it does exactly what I want it to. It's so much easier than aWeber, LOL!

 

[MTF]

So far Beehiiv's open rate is just 37% while it was 45-50% for AWeber. So this is yet another way they f*cked up my newsletter.

Then I'm also getting emails from people that they haven't seen previous emails in the welcome sequence meaning they probably bounced, went to spam, or promotions. I myself (I used one of my email addresses to get the newsletter as well) didn't receive the first email as it soft bounced. Then I got it twice the next day.

So yeah, thanks Beehiiv for completely ruining my list and my product launch. At this point, even if I move back to AWeber, the damage will be done already plus I don't expect Beehiiv to refund my annual payment and the funds I deposited into their advertising program.

My only hope is that somehow their growth tools will make up for it but at this point I doubt it. It's the worst software I've ever used. They successfully discouraged me from building newsletters.

Lesson for the future: don't use new platforms that everyone talks about.

 

[Timmy C]

So far Beehiiv's open rate is just 37% while it was 45-50% for AWeber. So this is yet another way they f*cked up my newsletter.

Then I'm also getting emails from people that they haven't seen previous emails in the welcome sequence meaning they probably bounced, went to spam, or promotions. I myself (I used one of my email addresses to get the newsletter as well) didn't receive the first email as it soft bounced. Then I got it twice the next day.

So yeah, thanks Beehiiv for completely ruining my list and my product launch. At this point, even if I move back to AWeber, the damage will be done already plus I don't expect Beehiiv to refund my annual payment and the funds I deposited into their advertising program.

My only hope is that somehow their growth tools will make up for it but at this point I doubt it. It's the worst software I've ever used. They successfully discouraged me from building newsletters.

Lesson for the future: don't use new platforms that everyone talks about.

This is the worst thing about newsletters as a business model.

I have used so many pieces of email marketing software and they all seem to suck.

They are either insanely expensive or have dodgy operating procedures.

Rarely are any of them user friendly.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

So far Beehiiv's open rate is just 37% while it was 45-50% for AWeber. So this is yet another way they f*cked up my newsletter.

Then I'm also getting emails from people that they haven't seen previous emails in the welcome sequence meaning they probably bounced, went to spam, or promotions. I myself (I used one of my email addresses to get the newsletter as well) didn't receive the first email as it soft bounced. Then I got it twice the next day.

So yeah, thanks Beehiiv for completely ruining my list and my product launch. At this point, even if I move back to AWeber, the damage will be done already plus I don't expect Beehiiv to refund my annual payment and the funds I deposited into their advertising program.

My only hope is that somehow their growth tools will make up for it but at this point I doubt it. It's the worst software I've ever used. They successfully discouraged me from building newsletters.

Lesson for the future: don't use new platforms that everyone talks about.

I wouldn't necessarily trust AWeber stats for that. My open rates are very very high on AWeber, but I manually tested with some gmail accounts, and the emails were landing in spam (yes, spam, not promotional). Now with MailerLite they land in Inbox.

So I'm not sure what to say.

Aweber is a very old infrastructure. I've been on it too, and just switched to MailerLite now. Old infrastructure makes it hard to do many things that are easily possible with newer infrastructure. I've also noticed Aweber counts my email as viewed even if I just scroll past it on my iPhone.

If you were to move, I'd recommend moving to something else. Most of the newsletters you shared as examples, they're on Infusionsoft – that's technically the best, but it's quite expensive relative to the other options.

As far as I see things, the top contenders nowadays are MailerLite & ActiveCampaign.

AWeber vs MailerLite: Which is Better? | ClickyDrip

See the full breakdown of what differentiates AWeber from MailerLite in terms features, pricing, and ease of use, and more...

clickydrip.com

After doing all the hard work of getting a subscriber, it’s a waste if your emails are going to their spam box or just not arriving at all.

AWeber claims that its internal deliverability metrics exceed 99%. MailerLite hasn’t publicly stated its deliverability rates.

On the other hand, EmailToolTester’s deliverability tests shows that AWeber typically ranges from 75 to 85% delivered to inboxes, while MailerLite achieves a bit greater than 90%.

Is AWeber lying? Likely not on purpose, but AWeber’s “99%” seemingly only measures whether an email was sent or not, not if it ends up in spam

See @MTF, when I told you that you shouldn't trust the experts... I really mean it It's very easy to embellish facts, and many companies do so copiously.

 

[MTF]

This is the worst thing about newsletters as a business model.

I have used so many pieces of email marketing software and they all seem to suck.

They are either insanely expensive or have dodgy operating procedures.

Rarely are any of them user friendly.

The most user-friendly solution that I've used was Ghost. But it only works for a very narrow audience (mostly magazine style newsletters) and it didn't work for me because it lacked customization.

I wouldn't necessarily trust AWeber stats for that. My open rates are very very high on AWeber, but I manually tested with some gmail accounts, and the emails were landing in spam (yes, spam, not promotional). Now with MailerLite they land in Inbox.

Could be true but with AWeber I wasn't getting emails that people haven't received an email or received it twice.

Most of the newsletters you shared as examples, they're on Infusionsoft – that's technically the best, but it's quite expensive relative to the other options.

I find this surprising. Infusionsoft is widely known as Confusionsoft because it's so complicated and hard to set up. I thought it's no longer even used except for some old school companies.

 

[dru-man]

Ben Settle recently released an email marketing platform.

Probably not cheap, given that Ben is behind it, but he'd certainly know what marketers need out of an email software.

I believe there may be some entry-level rates you can grandfather in though if you support them now. Not sure though.

 

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[StrikingViper69]

Is this an opportunity? Sell shovels instead of digging?

 

[Andy Black]

Is this an opportunity? Sell shovels instead of digging?

Yeah, it does look like an opportunity.

I'd start out building a newsletter with one of the simple tools, then if it proves profitable and I'm annoyed with lack of features etc then I'd look to creating my own simple solution. Mind you, @Cameraman already mentioned his simple solution.

(As an aside note, when I've got a shovel and am sat on a gold-mine then I prefer to dig rather than sell shovels.)

 

[StrikingViper69]

It looks like it's an opportunity.

I'd start out building a newsletter with one of the simple tools, then if it proves profitable and I'm annoyed with lack of features etc then I'd look to creating my own simple solution. Mind you, @Cameraman already mentioned his simple solution.

(As an aside note, I prefer digging when I've got a shovel and am sat on a gold-mine.)

His solution sounds pretty good, but for those who don't want to source plugins, setup hosting etc, it's going to be a bit tricky - setting up wordpress, plugins and AWS is going to be a challenge unless someone is an expert in tech. And some might just not want to bother.

Given how much complaining there has been about various tools and programs to promote newsletters... sounds like an opportunity.

 

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[Cameraman]

His solution sounds pretty good, but for those who don't want to source plugins, setup hosting etc, it's going to be a bit tricky - setting up wordpress, plugins and AWS is going to be a challenge unless someone is an expert in tech. And some might just not want to bother.

Given how much complaining there has been about various tools and programs to promote newsletters... sounds like an opportunity.

My solution isn't as easy as signing up with a mailing company but it's a lot cheaper and is very flexible. I can easily change my SMTP email service if AWS becomes unworkable for some reason. But I don't recomend this for someone who just wants a boiler plate solution to building an email list.

 

[Cameraman]

How are you using your newsletter at the moment?

I've always taken the approach of giving away my monthly newsletter rather than charging. I decided to do this after watching the magazines in my sector (print and digital magazines) struggling. People don't seem to want to pay for content so the magazines have switched to being free, building as large a mailing list as possible and using big numbers to sell advertising.

My approach has been to build trust with subscribers through regular, free-quality content. I then use that to launch new books and courses. In the past, it's been very effective, but it's becoming a lot more competitive. I also do the same with my YouTube channel, using it to promote my books and generate new subscribers for the newsletter.

Am I the anomaly, or are others doing the same?

 

[MTF]

My nightmare with Beehiiv is over. They refunded my annual payment and the funds I had in their wallet so at least I give them that one point for being ethical.

I moved to ConvertKit and I'm loving it so far. Zero issues, super intuitive, nice interface, every feature I need is available.

ConvertKit and Beehiiv are polar opposites. Beehiiv feels like a bunch of kids playing business compared to ConvertKit.

With ConvertKit, support is available via live chat all the time. They're solving your problems very quickly or handing it to someone else who replies promptly, too. With Beehiiv, you wait for (an often unhelpful) email response up to 3 days.

Beehiiv lacks some ridiculously basic features like:

• Subscribers being able to update their email addresses - currently you can't do it even from your admin panel, you need to write to support.
• Basic segmentation like tag a person who clicked X with X tag and a person who clicked Y with Y tag.
• Remember your login option - lol this is my favorite. You have to log in again each time. Because who would need this feature, right?

Then there were other bugs and constant issues with things breaking (one time I was even locked out of my account for 2 days). My subscribers received emails twice, they didn't get them at all, they went into spam, or responses from my own subscribers landed into my spam folder.

After my experience with Beehiiv, I won't be surprised at all if they go bust within 1-2 years. They're busy doing stupid stuff like selling their own merchandise (who the F*ck cares about buying merchandise from a freaking newsletter software company?) but their support is the slowest and the worst I've experienced in a long time.

Feels like they got too much money from the investors and are too busy pretending they're cool rather than building a good, functional product.

 

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[Andy Black]

Feels like they got too much money from the investors and are too busy pretending they're cool rather than building a good, functional product.

I've seen that in a startup. Foosball tables and free breakfasts, all while signups weren't getting any value.

Maybe they'll learn in time. Maybe they won't.

At least Nathan Barry seems to have a good moral compass and values. I understand what ConvertKit stands for, even if I found it frustrating to use.

 

[datagod]

Note: Activecampaign WAS good until they started price hikes. So now it's way overpriced for what it offers.

Mailerlite for now seems like best option.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Mailerlite for now seems like best option.

Whom also raised their prices. Now it's MailerHeavy.

 

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[whitelight]

Thanks!



Maybe I can unmuddy it for you.

Business is simple:

Help people. Get paid. Help more people.

Start. Sell. Scale.

And start by following Mother Theresa's quote:

"Never worry about numbers. Help one person at a time and always start with the person closest to you."


I don't like or understand LinkedIn. It's not my kind of platform, although I do interact with people on it.

Communities work best for me.

• Make friends, build relationships, and create win-wins

I actually like this word start with the 1 person closet to you,
I've a YouTube channel with 47 subscribers and there is one person who after watching my video..he always comment and I am really grateful for that one subscriber

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Another great example of SparkLoop allowing their "partners" to legally steal.

"Most" -- wow, I wonder what those terms are.

 

[Andy Black]

Another great example of SparkLoop allowing their "partners" to legally steal.

"Most" -- wow, I wonder what those terms are.

View attachment 53173

And how many emails have to be sent in those 15 days?

 

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[jkl]

Hey guys! I'm new to the forum but having read MJ's book Millionaire Fastlane (after my boss' recommendation which might sound odd) and now reading The Great Rat Escape I decided to join the forum and this thread stood out.

I'm writing here because my job is to manage and grow a newsletter (email list) of one of the biggest education creators (5M on YouTube, 700,000+ subscribers on the email list) but I now want to create my own newsletter-based business.

That being said, I read about all your frustrations around picking the right software. I personally (and for that mentioned 700k+ newsletter) use ConvertKit and if anyone has any questions about that particular tool, I'd be happy to help! (doesn't matter if it's something basic or more complex like liquid statements, etc.)

 

[MTF]

I'm writing here because my job is to manage and grow a newsletter (email list) of one of the biggest education creators (5M on YouTube, 700,000+ subscribers on the email list) but I now want to create my own newsletter-based business.

How do you drive growth? What would be your #1 strategy that everyone can use to grow a newsletter fast?

And how do you ensure you get high-quality subscribers that are buyers and not just freeloaders?