How to Build and Grow a Newsletter as a Business Model

[nicheevolution]

Would you guys say based on the time and effort, that paid newsletters is a viable option? I'm hesitant to trust articles written by convertkit and substack. They like to quote 10% conversion rates from free to paid but based on what I researched, its more like around 2-4%, with a few hitting 5%. Also convertkit says the average price of a newsletter is $11 which I think might be a bit high.

 

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[Amin Purshottam]

It's free up to 1k subs but you don't get the automations. That's what I'm planning on using if I decide to launch my paid newsletter. Try to up to a certain amount of paid subs before I pay for their monthly fee.

I realize there is more to this now, I have 4 issues written so far and started a fifth but realized there is a whole sequence of emails to set up when you are welcoming new subscribers and how often do you send those over a certain period of time. You can automate that as well so working on that currently.

 

[nicheevolution]

I realize there is more to this now, I have 4 issues written so far and started a fifth but realized there is a whole sequence of emails to set up when you are welcoming new subscribers and how often do you send those over a certain period of time. You can automate that as well so working on that currently.

How are you getting leads and what is your conversion percentage? I'm considering using my yt channel to pitch a lead magnet to get them to signup for my free newsletter where I then pitch the paid one.

 

[MTF]

There's been a lot of noise recently again about newsletters. The current model is a daily newsletter sending traffic to a website which is monetized with ads. The subscribers come from Facebook Ads. Scott DeLong's new course is about this (not linking deliberately to respect the forum rules).

Is this yet another trendy idea that will get saturated within a few months? A viable business idea? A denial of the fact that content-based businesses are going to fail over the next few years due to AI?

@MJ DeMarco are you still bearish on newsletters? Less bearish or even more bearish? Does the above sound like yet another make money scheme that's doomed to fail soon?

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

There's been a lot of noise recently again about newsletters. The current model is a daily newsletter sending traffic to a website which is monetized with ads. The subscribers come from Facebook Ads. Scott DeLong's new course is about this (not linking deliberately to respect the forum rules).

Is this yet another trendy idea that will get saturated within a few months? A viable business idea? A denial of the fact that content-based businesses are going to fail over the next few years due to AI?

@MJ DeMarco are you still bearish on newsletters? Less bearish or even more bearish? Does the above sound like yet another make money scheme that's doomed to fail soon?

Bearish and more bearish. It's just a hot trend like podcasting X years ago, blogging X years ago, and self-publishing X years ago.

I subscribe to about 40 newsletters and 99% of them are always selling shit very overtly. Why? Because that's what every guru has told them to do. 1%-10% is worth reading if you can divest from the monetization BS.

The space has become "gurufied" and what becomes "gurufied" becomes crap.

Remember you complaining how the self-publishing space became crap due to all the low quality BS infiltrating the top sellers? Gurufied.

Case in point...



Minimum 5 opens?

In other words, send us all your traffic and get paid nothing for it.

If you offered people FREE MONEY to open 5 newsletters in 1 week, you wouldn't meet this criteria.

That said, my bearishness is not me saying don't have a newsletter.

A newsletter is a list, and a list has value. And will ALWAYS have value.

 

[MTF]

I subscribe to about 40 newsletters and 99% of them are always selling shit very overtly. Why? Because that's what every guru has told them to do. 1%-10% is worth reading if you can divest from the monetization BS.

What if their only monetization was sending you to their articles and you potentially watching/clicking on some ads? Do you also consider that "selling shit very overtly"?

What about newsletters that have a free version that is a cut from a full, premium version?

Minimum 5 opens?

In other words, send us all your traffic and get paid nothing for it.

WTF that's ridiculous.

A newsletter is a list, and a list has value. And will ALWAYS have value.

Based on my experience with having various lists, I'd say that far too many people focus on subscribers and far too few on buyers. There's no point in having a list of 20k freeloaders. In fact, it's just a cost.

Yet, all the gurus focus on quantity with stuff like "get your first 1,000 subscribers in 30 days" (and nobody realizes they would never buy anything from them until it's too late).

 

[Andy Black]

The current model is a daily newsletter sending traffic to a website which is monetized with ads.

That seems a strange strategy to me. How many people click links in newsletters? Why not just have the ads in the newsletter?

I can understand sending people to a social media post to get initial traction on that post. I'm testing that at the moment.

A denial of the fact that content-based businesses are going to fail over the next few years due to AI?

Is this a fact though? The world will be awash with samey content, but I think the cream will always find a way to rise to the top. I suspect people will crave content that couldn't have been created by AI.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

What if their only monetization was sending you to their articles and you potentially watching/clicking on some ads? Do you also consider that "selling shit very overtly"?

I'm talking about the $2K coaching courses and the 4 emails telling me I have X hours to signup before it disappears!!! This is always the core concept behind every guru pitch: "See how Ashley makes $90K a month with her newsletter!" Well, Ashley sells a $2K coaching course through her newsletter.

I actually enjoy looking at the interspersed ads and have found some cool new things that way... so the various ads and sponsor notices I don't mind one bit.

 

[MTF]

That seems a strange strategy to me. How many people click links in newsletters? Why not just have the ads in the newsletter?

If you have a newsletter in this style (say, 3 links to your articles on the website and 1-2 newsletter only pieces), you can expect up to 40% people clicking on the links. Then on the website with proper ad setup your RPM will be $30-50 vs $1-2 in a newsletter.

Is this a fact though? The world will be awash with samey content, but I think the cream will always find a way to rise to the top. I suspect people will crave content that couldn't have been created by AI.

I guess so, though the majority will be fine with generic content as is the case now with most social media posts. Unique content rarely gets to the top, it's the generic controversial one following a specific template (great for AI) that wins.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

If you have a newsletter in this style (say, 3 links to your articles on the website and 1-2 newsletter only pieces), you can expect up to 40% people clicking on the links. Then on the website with proper ad setup your RPM will be $30-50 vs $1-2 in a newsletter.

This whole idea gives me a world of anxiety... what a F*cking grind.

I'd much rather just focus on creating a better product with better marketing which is a direct approach that reflects relative value. I feel all your actions are always indirectly "round-about" and beating around bushes -- why not focus on creating a quality product and selling it to the right audience instead of these ridiculous arbitrage number games?

My approach is X to Y.

Your approach always feels like X to Z to Q to Y -- and you dabble within Z and Q before you ever get to Y.

 

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[MTF]

This whole idea gives me a world of anxiety... what a F*cking grind.

It gives me this a little, too, which is why I'm hesitant about it. Still, the guy who uses this strategy is legit and has sold websites for $10 million following a similar template.

I'd much rather just focus on creating a better product with better marketing which is a direct approach that reflects relative value. I feel all your actions are always indirectly "round-about" and beating around bushes -- why not focus on creating a quality product and selling it to the right audience instead of these ridiculous arbitrage number games?

Because I like math and simple, repeatable "do X of this to get Y of that." Creating a better product is very nebulous and so is better marketing. There are so many variables. The product may not be needed. It may not be sold for the right price. It may not be the right targeting. It may not be the right timing. It may not be the right copy. And so on and so on.

I find it extremely hard to sell products because I don't need or buy much besides stuff I couldn't sell myself (like groceries and education from specialists). I don't have anything of value to offer besides being able to create content (which is getting less and less valuable).

This is why I prefer somehow delegating the marketing and sales to someone else, either through ads or a platform.

 

[Andy Black]

It gives me this a little, too, which is why I'm hesitant about it. Still, the guy who uses this strategy is legit and has sold websites for $10 million following a similar template.



Because I like math and simple, repeatable "do X of this to get Y of that." Creating a better product is very nebulous and so is better marketing. There are so many variables. The product may not be needed. It may not be sold for the right price. It may not be the right targeting. It may not be the right timing. It may not be the right copy. And so on and so on.

I find it extremely hard to sell products because I don't need or buy much besides stuff I couldn't sell myself (like groceries and education from specialists). I don't have anything of value to offer besides being able to create content (which is getting less and less valuable).

This is why I prefer somehow delegating the marketing and sales to someone else, either through ads or a platform.

I know you're not into podcasts, but I think the flywheel Sahil Bloom has setup is interesting.

It's discussed in the two podcasts here:

CHAT - Figuring Out Flywheels

Thought I'd create a thread where we can discuss flywheels and how we're applying them to our businesses. I'll keep this opening post updated with a summary and insights. A simple flywheel to get more clients: One of my friends has a simple flywheel to grow the small carpet cleaning business...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

 

[Andy Black]

This was good as well:

Google Podcasts

With Google Podcasts, you can find and listen to the world's podcasts for free.

podcasts.google.com

 

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[MTF]

I know you're not into podcasts, but I think the flywheel Sahil Bloom has setup is interesting.

They're discussed in the two podcasts here:

CHAT - Figuring Out Flywheels

Thought I'd create a thread where we can discuss flywheels and how we're applying them to our businesses. I'll keep this opening post updated with a summary and insights. A simple flywheel to get more clients: One of my friends has a simple flywheel to grow the small carpet cleaning business...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

I saw this but I don't understand how this is any different from gurus guruing as always with the same crap of "post on social media, magically get traffic from it as a nobody with zero followers, then monetize it."

All the guys you mention are Twitter gurus from the right country club. Their advice is useless for a nobody since they can get off the ground whatever they want through their fame and connections alone. Sort of like Leonardo DiCaprio giving pick-up advice.

 

[Andy Black]

I saw this but I don't understand how this is any different from gurus guruing as always with the same crap of "post on social media, magically get traffic from it as a nobody with zero followers, then monetize it."

All the guys you mention are Twitter gurus from the right country club. Their advice is useless for a nobody since they can get off the ground whatever they want through their fame and connections alone. Sort of like Leonardo DiCaprio giving pick-up advice.

Did you listen to it?

What I took from the first two podcasts was to create a flywheel that turns easier and produces more each revolution.

Sahil has ads in his newsletter. The more subscribers he has the more ad revenue he's paid. He reinvests the ad revenue into buying more subscribers, which grows his ad revenue so he can buy even more subscribers. And around he goes again. He's only just stopped reinvesting 100% of the ad revenue back into acquiring subscribers.

Sure, it didn't explain how he got his initial traction. I suspect it was a healthy dose of act, assess, adjust.

That interview with him two posts above shows how he's "thinking bigger" than just being a creator. I got ideas and inspiration from it.

I started putting a CTA at the end of LinkedIn posts to get people to signup to my newsletter and I know at least one person signed up because of it (because I email every new subscriber and ask). I'm also sending email newsletters that send people to LinkedIn posts. I'm testing whether those email subscribers can help me get more visibility on my LinkedIn posts. That's me figuring out a flywheel for my own content.

And for something non-personal brand I'm testing getting subscribers via Google Ads. I'll try to recoup that revenue as soon as possible and have it bring in subscribers on auto-pilot. I haven't figured out yet how that might become a flywheel where it produces more and more over time.

 

[Andy Black]

Just watched this presentation by Matt McGarry:

View: https://youtu.be/SVgI22bblK0?si=iNLcbmIM3VptJ3Bd


Matt has this newsletter:

Newsletter Operator

Learn how to grow and monetize your newsletter. Trusted by 16,000+ media founders, CEOs, creators.

www.newsletteroperator.com

And this is him on LinkedIn:

Matt McGarry - GrowLetter | LinkedIn

I run a marketing agency for media companies.<br><br>Clients include: The Hustle, 1440,… | Learn more about Matt McGarry's work experience, education, connections & more by visiting their profile on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

 

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[MTF]

Various resources on newsletters are available here:

Certified Newsletter Expert Directory

Discover the top 100 newsletter experts and service providers to take your newsletter to the next level

sparkloop.app

 

[Andy Black]

This was good too:

View: https://youtu.be/KcgHadHgs2Y?si=VAsxJo5ezEFpKd2T

How This Sneaker Newsletter Was Acquired in Less than a Year

Leqwane Lynch’s Story: Zero to 35,000 Subs & Selling the Newsletter

creator-spotlight.beehiiv.com

 

[Andy Black]

Not sure what's happening with Substack.

Saw this on LinkedIn just now:

Why creators need to understand Substack's tech | Jay Acunzo posted on the topic | LinkedIn

What’s happening with Substack right now is why creators need to understand the business models and incentives (largely driven by the amount of VC) of their… | 94 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

 

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[Andy Black]

This is why I prefer somehow delegating the marketing and sales to someone else, either through ads or a platform.

Have you tried Sparkloop as a way to buy subscribers?

 

[MTF]

Not sure what's happening with Substack.

Saw this on LinkedIn just now:

Why creators need to understand Substack's tech | Jay Acunzo posted on the topic | LinkedIn

What’s happening with Substack right now is why creators need to understand the business models and incentives (largely driven by the amount of VC) of their… | 94 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

I'm not surprised at all. The only sensible way to build a real newsletter is on your own platform, not someone else's. A platform may help with reach but eventually it'll limit it and force you to pay (I'm pretty sure they'll launch their self-serve ad system within 1-2 years). It's the same old story over and over again.

Have you tried Sparkloop as a way to buy subscribers?

No. Their recommendation system (get paid for recommending newsletters) is a scam (just ask MJ) and I believe their system for buyers is probably the same.

 

[Hassassin]

I have a love-hate relationship with newsletters. Think there are too many with weak value props.

With my brandkenstein newsletter, I decide to mainly document my ecommerce journey and only talk about things I've personally done or researched (to actually take action on something) in that month. I've gotten good feedback so far, and it helps keep me accountable because I "report" my numbers and biz growth to email subscribers every month.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Their recommendation system (get paid for recommending newsletters) is a scam (just ask MJ) and I believe their system for buyers is probably the same.

For buyers it might be great! Just set your settings to a very high per subscriber rate ($5) and then notate: "Must open 5 emails in a 2 week period", send out 5 newsletters and boom, instant FREE trafffic. Why? Because NO ONE is opening 100% of your emails in a 2 week period, not even your wife.

So you'll get legions of hungry people sending you subscribers; but none of them will qualify to get paid.

Scam complete.

 

[MTF]

For buyers it might be great! Just set your settings to a very high per subscriber rate ($5) and then notate: "Must open 5 emails in a 2 week period", send out 5 newsletters and boom, instant FREE trafffic. Why? Because NO ONE is opening 100% of your emails in a 2 week period, not even your wife.

So you'll get legions of hungry people sending you subscribers; but none of them will qualify to get paid.

Scam complete.

I've heard that Sparkloop charges advertisers even if the leads don't meet their requirements.

So the publishers can't meet the requirements and don't get paid and the advertisers get leads that don't meet their requirements but are still charged for them.

The only winner is Sparkloop.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

The only winner is Sparkloop.

Yes, shovel sellers make bank while everyone else digs up dirt. Same story, different year.

 

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[StrikingViper69]

There's been a lot of noise recently again about newsletters. The current model is a daily newsletter sending traffic to a website which is monetized with ads. The subscribers come from Facebook Ads. Scott DeLong's new course is about this (not linking deliberately to respect the forum rules).

Is this yet another trendy idea that will get saturated within a few months? A viable business idea? A denial of the fact that content-based businesses are going to fail over the next few years due to AI?

@MJ DeMarco are you still bearish on newsletters? Less bearish or even more bearish? Does the above sound like yet another make money scheme that's doomed to fail soon?

If someone’s promoting it, it’s probably about to stop working.

As with everything, a newsletter is a tool. This post is like saying “should I do e-commerce or copywriting to go fastlane?”

The daily newsletter with a pointless but engaging story model has been around for a while, but mainly used for selling your own products, courses etc. I can’t see the numbers for this working unless it’s in financial services or something like that. Even then it’s dependent on all sorts of things, basically boiling down to how many times can you show someone an ad before they get fed up and unsubscribe.

This also takes huge scale to make anything, like having an income from YouTube ad sense.

 

[Andy Black]

If someone’s promoting it, it’s probably about to stop working.

As with everything, a newsletter is a tool. This post is like saying “should I do e-commerce or copywriting to go fastlane?”

The daily newsletter with a pointless but engaging story model has been around for a while, but mainly used for selling your own products, courses etc. I can’t see the numbers for this working unless it’s in financial services or something like that. Even then it’s dependent on all sorts of things, basically boiling down to how many times can you show someone an ad before they get fed up and unsubscribe.

This also takes huge scale to make anything, like having an income from YouTube ad sense.

I just see it as an email list, rather than a newsletter. In which case it's just a way of owning our audience and then comes down to the usual business principles of whether we add any value, get paid for it, and how well we implement.

I think there's a "newsletter" bubble but good email marketing will still work.

 

[MTF]

If someone’s promoting it, it’s probably about to stop working.

As with everything, a newsletter is a tool. This post is like saying “should I do e-commerce or copywriting to go fastlane?”

The daily newsletter with a pointless but engaging story model has been around for a while, but mainly used for selling your own products, courses etc. I can’t see the numbers for this working unless it’s in financial services or something like that. Even then it’s dependent on all sorts of things, basically boiling down to how many times can you show someone an ad before they get fed up and unsubscribe.

This also takes huge scale to make anything, like having an income from YouTube ad sense.

Yeah fair point and I agree with most of it.

List building in general still makes sense as long as you have a plan how to monetize your subscribers or rather, your relationship with them. If they trust you, you can sell them stuff and they'll appreciate it since you're their trusted advisor. But this comes as the result of a process of consistently sending great content, not just sending them a freebie once.

I just see it as an email list, rather than a newsletter. In which case it's just a way of owning our audience and then comes down to the usual business principles of whether we add any value, get paid for it, and how well we implement.

I think there's a "newsletter" bubble but good email marketing will still work.

There's definitely a newsletter bubble for business, investing, tech, daily news, and self-help newsletters. Not sure about other niches but maybe other niches don't work well for newsletters.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Bad idea: Hey, how about I start a newsletter about AI?

Can you be in the top 1% of 1%? Go for it.

If you'd rather strive for top 10%, pick another industry.

 

[MTF]

Bad idea: Hey, how about I start a newsletter about AI?

Can you be in the top 1% of 1%? Go for it.

If you'd rather strive for top 10%, pick another industry.
View attachment 55101

I bet that 3,000 of these newsletters didn't even have a single issue out. But beehiiv will take whatever they have to brag about their numbers.