How to Build and Grow a Newsletter as a Business Model

[MTF]

Use Google Trends to provide alerts to internet entrepreneurs about rising trends before their mainstream and hijacked by the make money online gurus and Youtube.

...which is demonstrated ironically in the last few pages about new and upcoming newsletter platforms.

There's a lot of tools like that already. They're far more sophisticated than just a newsletter, though.

 

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[Andy Black]

Interesting. And would you use Sparkloop specifically for getting traffic and subs?

I wouldn't use Sparkloop to build a newsletter for Newcastle United fans. First off I'd look at Google search ads, then Google Display ads, then YouTube ads. Maybe Facebook Ads too, but I don't have any experience with those so I'd start with what I'm more familiar with.

 

[pickeringmt]

Great thread, thank you all for sharing so much - especially the open discussion.

 

[Andy Black]

Great thread, thank you all for sharing so much - especially the open discussion.

Yeah, I like progress threads, and I like discussion threads.

 

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[MartinG]

I wouldn't use Sparkloop to build a newsletter for Newcastle United fans. First off I'd look at Google search ads, then Google Display ads, then YouTube ads. Maybe Facebook Ads too, but I don't have any experience with those so I'd start with what I'm more familiar with.

I've often toyed with the idea of starting a newsletter, mainly with the view of improving my copy. When I scroll my twitter feed it seems that everyone is pushing their newsletter which can somewhat deter me from starting. Then again I've learned over the years to weed through the muck of what a large part of the 'make money online' niche has become, and get back to the basics of market demand and need.

Good luck Andy.

 

[Andy Black]

I've often toyed with the idea of starting a newsletter, mainly with the view of improving my copy. When I scroll my twitter feed it seems that everyone is pushing their newsletter which can somewhat deter me from starting. Then again I've learned over the years to weed through the muck of what a large part of the 'make money online' niche has become, and get back to the basics of market demand and need.

Good luck Andy.

I say kudos to those using Twitter and other platforms as marketing channels to grow email lists they own. That's how we address the issue of control.

I wouldn't worry about other people having newsletters. Like most things, it's crowded on the ground floor and less so at the top.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

My newsletter email inbox, 10 days of newsletters.

It will take me to 2027 to read every one of them, of which, I'm guessing 50% of them are trying to sell me something.

This is why if you're not in front of the trend and selling courses on the trend, you're fighting a natural unsustainability and a saturation point.

This trend is nearly identical to that of blogs from 2010. Back then, everyone was on the hype train for blogs. Back, then, the blogs that sold for $X millions made news and headlines. Just like blogs, your blog should NOT be the product. Your newsletter should not be the product. Podcasting? Same natural life cycle with a similar gold rush, hype train. THESE ARE SUPPLEMENTAL TOOLS to a bigger value proposition.

Trying to make "newsletters" YOUR BUSINESS might work out in the short term, but it won't in the long term.

 

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[conti]

10% easily trading with options???

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I literally sent these guys over 1,000 subscribers.

You know how many they paid me for?

88.

Do you think when they are selling advertisements they are basing their ad rates on the 88 subscribers I was compensated for, or the 1000?

Nope, the 1000+ that I've sent them will be included in their "We have over 200K subscribers!"

What a F*cking grift.

You get to advertise 50,000 subscribers, yet, you only paid for 500 of them.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

12,500 referrals, unpaid.

At $2 per subscriber which is about average for the compensation, that's $25,000.

I'm done.

I should have trusted my gut when the first experience was sketchy as F*ck.

The very first newsletter I promoted, within minutes of receiving referrals they changed their compensation.

Can you imagine advertising a newsletter and thinking you're getting paid $5 per subscriber, and 20 minutes after you press "Send" the advertiser changes it to $2 or $3? Or changes their "terms" from 0 opens, to 5? Great, you just got free advertising in a newsletter with 100K subscribers.

Yes, this happened.

Sparkloop is great if you want an unlimited stream of subscribers and not pay a damn cent for any of them.

 

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[MTF]

12,500 referrals, unpaid.
View attachment 52624
At $2 per subscriber which is about average for the compensation, that's $25,000.

I'm done.

I should have trusted my gut when the first experience was sketchy as F*ck.

The very first newsletter I promoted, within minutes of receiving referrals they changed their compensation.

Can you imagine advertising a newsletter and thinking you're getting paid $5 per subscriber, and 20 minutes after you press "Send" the advertiser changes it to $2 or $3? Or changes their "terms" from 0 opens, to 5? Great, you just got free advertising in a newsletter with 100K subscribers.

Yes, this happened.

Sparkloop is great if you want an unlimited stream of subscribers and not pay a damn cent for any of them.

They were acquired by Beehiiv and I imagine they will soon become a part of their ecosystem and the scamming will hopefully stop.

Terrible business practice anyway. Not paying for subscribers from Europe because they're from a restricted country is ridiculous. I can understand poor African or Asian countries but not the Netherlands.

 

[MTF]

I'm almost done setting up my newsletter on Beehiiv and I have to say it's buggy as hell. I must have sent at least 10 support tickets now because things are often breaking (I myself spotted two bugs which, to my understanding, they weren't even aware of). They also seem short-staffed as they don't provide support on the weekends and it usually takes 1-2 days to get a response (not hours as it should be).

Still, the new features they're rolling out and the ecosystem they're building are probably worth it as it's the first huge innovation in this space for a long time.

 

[CrimsonNight]

I only skimmed through this thread but have you monetized your newsletter yet?

Here's how i kinda do mine (not newsletter tho):

Started buying some email traffic for one offer and building an email list around that niche. The flow is pretty simple:

Buy e-mail traffic -> LP with opt-in -> Offer page

Can def see getting breakeven on frontend and profit on the backend.

1 Sales email for every 4-5 value email

Someone I know who scales hard with this method recommend info product with 40-50+ aov

 

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[MTF]

I'll provide a different perspective...

My newsletter email inbox, 10 days of newsletters.

But how many newsletters does an average person subscribe to? According to this article (not sure how valid this is):

• 90% of Americans admit to being subscribed to at least one newsletter.
• A vast majority (74%) receive newsletters from between 1 and 10 entities.
• Only 16% of Americans let 11 or more brands send their automated communications.

So you're in the minority here as an average person probably receives no more than 10 newsletters per 10 days (most newsletters are weekly, not daily).

Do people ignore some newsletters? Of course they do. But if you have a good newsletter in your inbox that you look forward to each week, you don't leave it unread.

It will take me to 2027 to read every one of them, of which, I'm guessing 50% of them are trying to sell me something.

Most newsletters to which I'm subscribed aren't trying to sell anything other than the sponsorships they have and/or their own products which are an extension of their free offering. The emails in themselves are still full of value. The ones that send pure sales emails weekly don't have a bright future, that's for sure.

This is why if you're not in front of the trend and selling courses on the trend, you're fighting a natural unsustainability and a saturation point.

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IMO there are still very few really EXCELLENT newsletters. Most creators are drawn to sexier formats like video where there are thousands of excellent creators. The ones that produce newsletters that are excellent simply have no competition. For example, Alts.co is an EXCELLENT newsletter and for me they have zero competition in this space.

Granted, there's probably no space for yet another generic global/business/marketing/investing news newsletter as that has zero value skew.

And I DO agree that offering services and/or products would probably be a great idea for the right person. I prefer creating my own newsletter.

This trend is nearly identical to that of blogs from 2010. Back then, everyone was on the hype train for blogs. Back, then, the blogs that sold for $X millions made news and headlines. Just like blogs, your blog should NOT be the product. Your newsletter should not be the product. Podcasting? Same natural life cycle with a similar gold rush, hype train. THESE ARE SUPPLEMENTAL TOOLS to a bigger value proposition.

Well a newsletter is nothing else but a vehicle to build a customer list. If you use it to sell stuff and convert people into paying customers, you have a business like any other. Of course, with time it may make sense to expand into other channels but newsletters are IMO much safer than relying on SEO or YouTube.

There are a lot of newsletter-centric businesses that have been doing extremely well for many years and started well before the newsletter hype. For example, Sovereign Man: Financial Independence & Offshore Living is mostly a newsletter-based business.

Trying to make "newsletters" YOUR BUSINESS might work out in the short term, but it won't in the long term.

What do you mean by making newsletters your business?

Perhaps I automatically look at it in a different way than an average person but like I said above, a newsletter is a tool to build an audience. It'll work in the long term, too, because Lindy's Law dictates that email is here to stay for a long time.

What won't work in the long term if you're providing valuable content via email? The only risk I see is Google/Apple/Yahoo making it harder to get emails delivered to your subscribers.

You build a newsletter to create a customer list, then you monetize it. I see no hype here. It's only a stupid idea if you're building a newsletter but don't have any idea how to monetize it because you're writing about something with little commercial appeal.

I'm bullish on newsletters because I feel like they may be an online equivalent of a boring but stable offline business.

 

[MTF]

I only skimmed through this thread but have you monetized your newsletter yet?

Until now for my author newsletter I had a $47 product discounted to $27, sold in the welcome sequence and some other random products almost nobody bought after their launch. Still, on a good month it provides a few hundred dollars despite me doing a terrible job marketing it.

Just from (very badly) selling my own products directly to my list I've made $35k since 2016 which further shows how bad of a job I've been doing with this. Just $5k a year, lol.

I'm currently completely redesigning everything and the new monetization will be way different:

• A free course leading to a $197 product sold for $97 as a limited deal for new subscribers (and it will be a real limited deal, not a fake one, courtesy of Deadline Funnel: Authentic Evergreen Marketing). I'd rather sell something more expensive now to be able to provide a better experience.
• The $197 regular offer will be mentioned in weekly emails in the signature in case someone wants to buy it later.
• I'll use Beehiiv boosts to promote other newsletters and make money from referring my subscribers to other newsletters.
• I'll hopefully get some sponsorships for another income stream.
• I may do some affiliate deals assuming they pass my requirements.
• I may create more products and/or launch a more expensive product only for the customers of the $97 product (assuming it sells any copies LOL).

But this newsletter is just a way for me to learn the processes because it's an easy starting point with an already existing list. I'd like to launch another newsletter in a different, more exciting space.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

What won't work in the long term if you're providing valuable content via email?

Do you feel your books are valuable?

You stopped writing books because you put your heart and soul into them and thought them to be valuable -- but the saturation of the Amazon ecosystem wore you down. Value became inconsequential. Remember when self-publishing was the hot, du-jour opportunity? Sure you did, you climbed aboard and rode the wave, quite successfully I might add.

I see the same pattern here.

8 months from today: "Hey guys I'm stopped writing my NEWSLETTER as I put so much time and thought into them, but the click and open rates are so bad, that it just isn't worth my time any longer."

How is that any different than your statements from 3,4 years ago?

"Hey guys I'm stopped writing BOOKS as I put so much time and thought into them, but the competition on Amazon is so bad, that it just isn't worth my time any longer."

Unless something is different "this time," I only see history repeating.

My only hope is that you in fact do catch part of the wave, and build something that outlasts your motivation like you did with your books.

 

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[MTF]

Do you feel your books are valuable?

You stopped writing books because you put your heart and soul into them and thought them to be valuable -- but the saturation of the Amazon ecosystem wore you down. Value became inconsequential.

I guess so. But the truth is that I could no longer compete with other authors who were more famous, more qualified, and more willing to build personal brands.

Looking back now, the quality of my books is way worse than the quality of today's top authors. I'm not as good of a writer as I thought I was and I will never be. I'm too much of a generalist to ever be that excellent.

But most importantly, the algorithm has changed and Audible made catastrophic changes to their earning structure and that killed my motivation the most. Hard not to when your earnings drop 5x because of something outside of your control.

And also, when you see bestseller lists spammed with romance/erotica in every genre, you know the system rewards scammers and there's no point fighting against it.

Unless something is different "this time," I only see history repeating.

I may be mistaken here. The way I see it, email is the only vehicle where you aren't subject to wild fluctuations. Amazon changes their algorithms all the time. So does Google, YouTube, Facebook, and other social media.

With email, you don't have 50% open rates one day and 10% open rates the next day because of an algorithm change.

Can this happen? I don't know, I don't understand the technical side of email enough to be 100% convinced. I know that Gmail/Apple/Yahoo can and does enforce stricter standards for newsletters. But your newsletter can't die overnight like it so easily can with a YouTube channel or a niche site.

But I have to admit that overall, I'm VERY tired of online businesses. My lifestyle doesn't really lend itself to offline businesses but I really like how they aren't as subject to the dominance of Amazon, Google, and Meta.

My only hope is that you in fact do catch part of the wave, and build something that outlasts your motivation like you did with your books.

Well I don't approach any business these days with the same hunger I had back then. If I catch the wave, cool. If not, it's fine. I don't have much of a long-term outlook these days as I prefer to explore what currently interests me.

I have alternative paths to follow if/when I proclaim this isn't worth my time.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Do you feel your books are valuable?

You stopped writing books because you put your heart and soul into them and thought them to be valuable -- but the saturation of the Amazon ecosystem wore you down. Value became inconsequential. Remember when self-publishing was the hot, du-jour opportunity? Sure you did, you climbed aboard and rode the wave, quite successfully I might add.

I see the same pattern here.

8 months from today: "Hey guys I'm stopped writing my NEWSLETTER as I put so much time and thought into them, but the click and open rates are so bad, that it just isn't worth my time any longer."

How is that any different than your statements from 3,4 years ago?

"Hey guys I'm stopped writing BOOKS as I put so much time and thought into them, but the competition on Amazon is so bad, that it just isn't worth my time any longer."

Unless something is different "this time," I only see history repeating.

My only hope is that you in fact do catch part of the wave, and build something that outlasts your motivation like you did with your books.

I need to clarify as I sound like a terrible friend -- I'm not trying to dissuade or de-motivate you, but try to help you see the patterns you continually repeat.

But I have to admit that overall, I'm VERY tired of online businesses. My lifestyle doesn't really lend itself to offline businesses but I really like how they aren't as subject to the dominance of Amazon, Google, and Meta.

Your MO seems to find a hot trend that everyone is talking about, and then try to pigeon hole value into that trend. 2 years ago Goggins and his discomforting philosophy was hot and now it's this newsletter stuff, which is now hot. This statement kind fits that pigeon hole narrative. What can I do that isn't subject to big social media platforms?

Whereas IMO, you should just focus on creating relative, sustainable value regardless of trend or platform or any other preconceived biases (other than you travel a lot, so it must fit there).

Value first, not pigeon holing.

Had you kept up with book publishing (and your email list back then) wouldn't this newsletter trend be great for that business?

I've built my email list over 10 years. I didn't start building it because this trend suddenly appeared, I only started sending out more because the practice has become more normalized.

I guess so. But the truth is that I could no longer compete with other authors who were more famous, more qualified, and more willing to build personal brands.

Why do you think this won't repeat?

The same narrative can be applied to this industry you just decided to hop into.

But the truth is that I could no longer compete with other LARGER newsletters who were more famous, more qualified, and more willing to build personal brands.

You want to sell advertising in your newsletter?

Well the big audiences, big brands, and famous personal brands will attract eyeballs and ad dollars... perhaps leading to an identical conclusion from yourself, and hence, the cycle repeats.

Looking back now, the quality of my books is way worse than the quality of today's top authors.

I've always found your writing here @ the forum top tier, so I'm sure your books have the same quality. Who's to say that your avatar "three feet from gold" is exactly the scenario you backed out on?

 

[MTF]

I need to clarify as I sound like a terrible friend -- I'm not trying to dissuade or de-motivate you, but try to help you see the patterns you continually repeat.

And I appreciate it as I definitely have blind spots.

Had you kept up with book publishing (and your email list back then) wouldn't this newsletter trend be great for that business?

But that's the thing. The newsletter I'm now building is for my existing email list of readers. It's still the same thing. It's not starting from scratch but reinventing it. I'm taking my (recently cleaned) subscriber base with me.

I stopped publishing books but I didn't stop emailing my readers. My newsletter has been growing consistently since 2014 so our lists are of almost the same age.

So what I'm doing now is applying the new possibilities to the same business.

If it works well and if I find a cool opportunity, I'd like to have a newsletter in a travel/international living niche. But we'll see how it goes. I may just as well do what you said and focus on value first and see where I could best help in this niche.

You want to sell advertising in your newsletter?

Well the big audiences, big brands, and famous personal brands will attract eyeballs and ad dollars... perhaps leading to an identical conclusion from yourself, and hence, the cycle repeats.

Yeah that's why I don't want to rely on sponsorships but treat it as a supplement. For my author newsletter I'd rather rely on my own products (which is why I built a new product in the last several weeks before re-launching my newsletter).

I've always found your writing here @ the forum top tier, so I'm sure your books have the same quality. Who's to say that your avatar "three feet from gold" is exactly the scenario you backed out on?

Thank you.

I almost backed out a few times while working on this business. But eventually I reached my goals so I don't think I backed out.

Unless of course there was a bigger pile of gold. But from my understanding back then, the only way forward was to become a personal brand, use social media, and become someone I despise.

For the same reason I stopped running the discomfort newsletter (plus I changed my philosophy). It wasn't because it wasn't hot anymore. If anything, it's even more popular now. But I'm a behind the scenes kind of a guy and now I know that I can't have any businesses that require me to show my face and be the brand.

 

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[Andy Black]

I'm just reading a few football articles in The Sun newspaper (I'd normally not touch that paper with a barge pole).

Thought these were nice simple ads, even though there's a glaring typo.

I ran a little Google Ads test and was getting signups when the landing page was even simpler (I didn't have an image).

Search term: xyz tips

Ad headine: Get XYZ Tips | Straight To Your Inbox

Landing page:
Get XYZ Tips
Straight To You Inbox
< Signup Now >

 

[Andy Black]

Thought this was very good:

078: Sahil Bloom – Using Flywheels to Build Longevity in the Creator Economy

In today’s episode, I sit down with investor, entrepreneur, and content creator, Sahil Bloom (in front of a live audience) to unpack the key strategies and lessons

nathanbarry.com

 

[MTF]

I'm almost done setting up my newsletter on Beehiiv and I have to say it's buggy as hell. I must have sent at least 10 support tickets now because things are often breaking (I myself spotted two bugs which, to my understanding, they weren't even aware of). They also seem short-staffed as they don't provide support on the weekends and it usually takes 1-2 days to get a response (not hours as it should be).

Still, the new features they're rolling out and the ecosystem they're building are probably worth it as it's the first huge innovation in this space for a long time.

My frustration is reaching new heights. Their software is F*cking terrible. If it weren't for their growth/monetization features, I'd have given up already. Even the simplest things seem impossible to set up and their support SUCKS a$$.

I'm starting to think that all the praise about Beehiiv is motivated by their partner program and not how good their platform is. It feels like maybe they're growing too fast and can't manage to offer a good service anymore.

I'm honestly considering not using it anymore and I haven't even moved my newsletter there yet (though already paid for an annual subscription which I now regret).

 

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[Andy Black]

My frustration is reaching new heights. Their software is F*cking terrible. If it weren't for their growth/monetization features, I'd have given up already. Even the simplest things seem impossible to set up and their support SUCKS a$$.

I'm starting to think that all the praise about Beehiiv is motivated by their partner program and not how good their platform is. It feels like maybe they're growing too fast and can't manage to offer a good service anymore.

I'm honestly considering not using it anymore and I haven't even moved my newsletter there yet (though already paid for an annual subscription which I now regret).

Thanks for letting us know.

I had reservations based on not being able to simply ask for new subscriber's names as well as their email address. To me that's a big red flag, given I really believe how you do anything is how you do everything. It's not a bug but it's a simple thing they should have done.

 

[Timmy C]

My frustration is reaching new heights. Their software is F*cking terrible. If it weren't for their growth/monetization features, I'd have given up already. Even the simplest things seem impossible to set up and their support SUCKS a$$.

I'm starting to think that all the praise about Beehiiv is motivated by their partner program and not how good their platform is. It feels like maybe they're growing too fast and can't manage to offer a good service anymore.

I'm honestly considering not using it anymore and I haven't even moved my newsletter there yet (though already paid for an annual subscription which I now regret).

It's the same with the ''ridge wallet'' people promote them everywhere due to their partner program.

Good wallet, but not $110 good.

 

[MTF]

Thanks for letting us know.

I had reservations based on not being able to simply ask for new subscriber's names as well as their email address. To me that's a big red flag, given I really believe how you do anything is how you do everything. It's not a bug but it's a simple thing they should have done.

If their marketing and monetization tools work as promised then it'll still be worth it. It's very hard to scale a newsletter and they're (supposedly) solving it so hopefully that will be the case.

I see they're constantly adding new features so hopefully it's just growing pains.

 

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[Cameraman]

If their marketing and monetization tools work as promised then it'll still be worth it. It's very hard to scale a newsletter and they're (supposedly) solving it so hopefully that will be the case.

I see they're constantly adding new features so hopefully it's just growing pains.

A lot of other things have had my attention recently but I still like to return to this thread beacuse it's a valuable discussion. What I'm stuggling to appreciate is why I would want to build a newsletter on someone elses platform.

I'm still sending my newsletter from my WordPress site using a newsletter plugin. I send it through AWS and achieve +99.9% delivery. I have popups and embedded forms to capture visitors as subscribers. I've also created a bunch of autoresponders to send a series of emails to new subscribers. Not the usually salesy stuff but things like checking they have been able to download the lead magnet and know how to use my site.

I can see what I'm missing by not using one of the various platforms. Any thoughts?

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I see they're constantly adding new features so hopefully it's just growing pains.

Good sign that they do care.

I can see what I'm missing by not using one of the various platforms. Any thoughts?

The network effects. Look at my posts in this thread which discuss how list building on these platforms has become scammy.

I promoted newsletters to my 100K+ subscribers and got paid for virtually none of them, and yet, those newsletter owners will fully monetize those unpaid subscribers.

As a newsletter owner trying to build a list, that's very powerful. Most people won't see through the BS, and IMO, its longevity ranks up there with peeled fruit.

 

[Cameraman]

Good sign that they do care.



The network effects. Look at my posts in this thread which discuss how list building on these platforms has become scammy.

I promoted newsletters to my 100K+ subscribers and got paid for virtually none of them, and yet, those newsletter owners will fully monetize those unpaid subscribers.

As a newsletter owner trying to build a list, that's very powerful. Most people won't see through the BS, and IMO, its longevity ranks up there will peeled fruit.

Thanks. I just realised my typo. I was trying to say that I can't understand what I'm missing by not using a network. I'm negative on a lot of the newsletter activity I see going on. My approach is trying to build a community where I'm a trusted voice.

I'm probably underselling myself and my products. I'm also limiting myself by trying to grow organically as I don't do much paid advertising (yet). I do have brands contacting me regularly to promote their products, but I cherry pick and limit myself to the ones that I would happily pay for.

I'm just trying to understand if I'm genuinely missing out on benefits by having built my own newsletter solution. At the moment I can't see that I am.

 

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[Andy Black]

Thanks. I just realised my typo. I was trying to say that I can't understand what I'm missing by not using a network. I'm negative on a lot of the newsletter activity I see going on. My approach is trying to build a community where I'm a trusted voice.

I'm probably underselling myself and my products. I'm also limiting myself by trying to grow organically as I don't do much paid advertising (yet). I do have brands contacting me regularly to promote their products, but I cherry pick and limit myself to the ones that I would happily pay for.

I'm just trying to understand if I'm genuinely missing out on benefits by having built my own newsletter solution. At the moment I can't see that I am.

The best advice I heard about monetising with Google Adsense was to not monetise with Google Adsense. Instead, observe who's ads show on your site then approach them direct.

What about finding genuine newsletters or partners who would want to send people your way and not because they earn money, but because it will benefit their audience?

I'm not focused on newsletters at the moment but if I was I'd be trying to build a system that brings a steady trickle of daily subscribers and gradually grow it or add more. If I found something that worked organically (like a YouTube video) then I'd consider putting ad spend behind it so it ran indefinitely.

 

[Cameraman]

I'm not focused on newsletters at the moment but if I was I'd be trying to build a system that brings a steady trickle of daily subscribers and gradually grow it or add more. If I found something that worked organically (like a YouTube video) then I'd consider putting ad spend behind it so it ran indefinitely.

I'm achieving between 6 and 10 subscribers most days on my website and 60% appear to remain subscribed after a year. I've stopped measuring the source of subscribers but take your point about YouTube. I think I've hit around 37,000 subs there but my mailing list is only around 11,000 (I remove inactive subscribers each month). I guess I'm feeling a little impatient because I read so many stories of people having huge success.

What about finding genuine newsletters or partners who would want to send people your way and not because they earn money, but because it will benefit their audience?

This is an excellent idea. Thank you. I have done a couple of collaborations the past but nothing for a few years. I think it's time to make contacts. Sometimes you can't see what's in front of you.