Are IQ (Smarts) and Success Correlated?

[BizyDad]

I am secretly enjoying reading this thread, a bit too much if I’m being honest.

@Black_Dragon43 already knew that, but I'm glad you let the rest of us in on the secret.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Shono]

I’ve spent a lot of time having my intelligence tested and being around really intelligent people. By paying attention, I’ve grown quite good at estimating someone’s IQ. I’d put you @BizyDad at around 125-140.

What do you think my iq is, comparing me to those similarly really intelligent people you’ve been around?

 

[Kak]

What do you think my iq is, comparing me to those similarly really intelligent people you’ve been around?

Dunning-Kruger.



I’d say, coming from the beyond exceptionally gifted red zone on this chart, so you know I’m always right, you are likely between 27 and 39.

 

[heavy_industry]

Summary of this thread:

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[biophase]

What do you think my iq is, comparing me to those similarly really intelligent people you’ve been around?

Is this you on the video?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH0hikcwjIA

 

[Isaac Odongo]

Social media has destroyed a generation.

What astounds me with young people today is their confidence in their ignorance.

The statement is very simple. A pound of feathers weighs the same as a pound of iron. But people who've had their brains microwaved into mush by social media can no longer look at things simplistically because their brains have already moved onto the next swipe, the next scroll, and the next dopamine push.

I love this. The only time I coming across such confusion of a kilo of iron is heavier than a kilo of feathers is as a kid in primary. And listening to some other illiterates.

 

[Simon Angel]

I took the official Mensa test when I was 14 and got either 142 or 152. After receiving an invitation by email and having a quick look at their forum and seeing how it was just a huge circle jerk (much like any forum, including this one at times) with threads like "Things sub 120 IQ people don't understand?", I left and never really cared about any of that again.

Despite that, I definitely noticed that I was abnormal and different as a kid. So much so that eventually, in high school, I intentionally dumbed myself down/behaved recklessly just so I could get along with others and attract girls. It worked — I had a lot of friends and girlfriends, and now I'm an amalgamation of my "true" self (which now only really comes out in periods of extreme stress) and the "inauthentic" image I created in high school and my early 20s.

I used to be ADHD-like (and still am, in fact, that's why I work about an hour or less per day when I average it out over a long period of time), have anxiety, a history of severe depression, and a lot of hypochondria. If that's thanks to my IQ, well, I'm not convinced the trade-off is worth it.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Isaac Odongo]

Iron vs feathers
IQ vs success
The masses here are getting dumber the more this thread progresses.

 

[monnffffiiiiiii]

I am secretly enjoying reading this thread, a bit too much if I’m being honest.

What amazes me the most is that no one is discussing the issue at hand, which was:

Intelligence, defined as the ability to solve complex problems, is necessary to experience entrepreneurial success, defined as a problem-solving discipline.

If you disagree, I suggest you buy a pair of glasses and stop reading the news.

 

[kommen]

No. Success is correlated to humility.

Drops mic

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[kommen]

Whatever is "smart" or "stupid" is ridiculously subjective. An IQ test doesn't measure your intelligence, it measures... How good you are at an IQ test.

Also I thought this video by my favourite YouTuber is somewhat related to the thread.

View: https://youtu.be/2xl56IJGKwY

 

[Antifragile]

What amazes me the most is that no one is discussing the issue at hand, which was:

Intelligence, defined as the ability to solve complex problems, is necessary to experience entrepreneurial success, defined as a problem-solving discipline.

If you disagree, I suggest you buy a pair of glasses and stop reading the news.

imagine you took an iq test and learned you were dumber than most.

do you now quit the forum? Get a low paying job stocking shelves? can u live with that kind of rejection? Oh oh…

 

[kommen]

No, God makes sure you're poor by getting you to be born into poverty. Grow up in an Indian slum with the I.Q. of Einstein and you could still end up sweeping streets for a living. That same IQ in Europe or the United States will get you very different things. Nothing to do with capitalism my friend.

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/AtUfkeRffJw?feature=share

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[kommen]

Uh I don't really agree with this.

"For the Lord, a humble sinner is more pleasing than a righteous man who is proud"
- Elder Barsanuphios of Optina

 

[monnffffiiiiiii]

imagine you took an iq test and learned you were dumber than most.

do you now quit the forum? Get a low paying job stocking shelves? can u live with that kind of rejection? Oh oh…

Nobody is speaking about IQ, which calls on the message I have said above: no one is discussing the issue at hand.

So I repeat myself: entrepreneurship, as a problem-solving discipline, demands that those who practice it be intelligent, defined as the ability to solve complex problems.

There is no "but", "I know somebody who", or "IQ". It is a logical relation between two concepts, using the mathematical "if" -> "then".

Which is likely the reason why most people don't understand it.

 

[Antifragile]

Nobody is speaking about IQ, which calls on the message I have said above: no one is discussing the issue at hand.

So I repeat myself: entrepreneurship, as a problem-solving discipline, demands that those who practice it be intelligent, defined as the ability to solve complex problems.

There is no "but", "I know somebody who", or "IQ". It is a logical relation between two concepts, using the mathematical "if" -> "then".

Which is likely the reason why most people don't understand it.

So we are not talking about IQ then, as confirmed by the thread starter! Excellent…

About MJ's "lies to yourself list" all of them are correct, except the IQ one.

Not all smart people are rich, but all self-made rich people are definitely smart.

The correlation between net worth and IQ is a real thing.

And social-economics inequalities are "IQ" inequalities more than anything else.

It's immensely controversial...but it's true.

Yea, nobody is speaking about IQ.

imagine you took an iq test and learned you were dumber than most.

do you now quit the forum? Get a low paying job stocking shelves? can u live with that kind of rejection? Oh oh…

Hmm…

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[heavy_industry]

There is no "but", "I know somebody who", or "IQ". It is a logical relation between two concepts, using the mathematical "if" -> "then".

"if -> then"
Establishes a cause-and-effect relationship between two events. Causality can only be proven experimentally, which is impossible to do for IQ. You can't lock people inside labs for 50 years and see if they become rich based on their IQ.

The second best thing we have are observational studies, which indeed have found a very strong correlation between IQ and long term success. This is one of the most consistent findings in statistical psychology.

Correlation does not establish a cause-and-effect relationship between events. It shows that they are occurring at the same time.

Just like ice-cream sales are heavily correlated with the number of shark attacks during the summer. It doesn't mean that one causes the other.

---

But the real question is why are we still talking about this stupid thing 2 weeks later?

You are not a number on a chart. Statistics have no predictive power over you as an individual.

If you are using your low/average/high IQ score as an excuse for not making progress and not living the life that you want, you are a loser.

Do you know what is demonstrably causative (A->B) of success? Making good choices and taking action.

 

[BizyDad]

What is it then?

I would say you are close

Not that any of this actually matters

I am a very smart boy (official IQ of 158) and intelligence is certainly helpful, but beyond a certain point it is DETRIMENTAL to success.

Oh, yeah, I see what you mean.

Intelligent people often do have trouble reading between the lines or grasping context relating to people's feeling on a subject.

Out of respect, I didn't want to leave your question unresponded to. I feel I have already addressed the issue of my own IQ.

@BizyDad is the greatest politician of this forum.

Ha! Maybe someday. Maybe not. I have entertained the thought but it is not like I am ready to announce a campaign yet. Not sure I have the proper temperment for near constant lying.

Has FLF had a politician on here? Who am I competing with for the title of greatest?

Wait! Gosh, maybe you canread minds

Anyways, now our little tete a tete has devolved into the personal and that isn't helpful to anyone. I tried to quickly correct some erroneous commentary, but I've now made three too many comments in this thread and that's time I won't get back. I'm out.

Feel free to get in the last word or continue to pontificate gloriously if you feel it is necessary.

 

[BizyDad]

Just like ice-cream sales are heavily correlated with the number of shark attacks during the summer. It doesn't mean that one causes the other.

Wait. It is also true that the more ice cream shops a place has, the more murders occur there.

And now ice cream sales and shark attacks?

Oh man, how far down this rabbit hole do we want to go?!?!

It doesn't mean that one causes the other.

Or is that just what they want the sheep to believe?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

 

[Shono]

Iron vs feathers
The masses here are getting dumber the more this thread progresses.

Tell me about it

 

[Antifragile]

our little tete a tete has devolved into the personal and that isn't helpful to anyone

A clash of IQ titans is very helpful to the entertainment value of this thread.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Johnny boy]

Uh I don't really agree with this.

"For the Lord, a humble sinner is more pleasing than a righteous man who is proud"
- Elder Barsanuphios of Optina

thats okay.

 

[monnffffiiiiiii]

So we are not talking about IQ then, as confirmed by the thread starter! Excellent…


Yea, nobody is speaking about IQ.


Hmm…

I normally answer this type of message with a sentence I assume, based on your username, you are familiar with:

"The problem with nitpickers is that if you engage them to argue about nitpicking, they nitpick even that."

IQ in that case is clearly used as a synonym of intelligence, which is much easier to use when discussing general rules with general concepts.

I am happy to discuss anything else business related, but I said everything I had to on this topic.

"if -> then"
Establishes a cause-and-effect relationship between two events. Causality can only be proven experimentally, which is impossible to do for IQ. You can't lock people inside labs for 50 years and see if they become rich based on their IQ.

The second best thing we have are observational studies, which indeed have found a very strong correlation between IQ and long term success. This is one of the most consistent findings in statistical psychology.

Correlation does not establish a cause-and-effect relationship between events. It shows that they are occurring at the same time.

Just like ice-cream sales are heavily correlated with the number of shark attacks during the summer. It doesn't mean that one causes the other.

---

But the real question is why are we still talking about this stupid thing 2 weeks later?

You are not a number on a chart. Statistics have no predictive power over you as an individual.

If you are using your low/average/high IQ score as an excuse for not making progress and not living the life that you want, you are a loser.

Do you know what is demonstrably causative (A->B) of success? Making good choices and taking action.

"If entrepreneurship is a discipline where success is measured as one's capacity to solve complex problems, then the ability to solve complex problems defined as "intelligence" is necessary to succeed in entrepreneurship." -> it's a logical relation, you don't debate logic.

I agree, this is a waste of time, like explaining people why journalism is narrative-driven, why women date tall guys, or why politicians leave loopholes in the tax code -> Those who need an explanation will never get it.

If you like these types of non-obvious observations, I recommend "The Bed of Procrustes".

 

[Ing]

And I love how @BizyDad has no idea how IQs are distributed but he comes here to tell us how if 180 was the standard for genius, then that would be exceedingly rare.

That’s not true. There have been many thousands in human history with such IQ levels, some that we’ve actually never heard of or who have left little traces behind. It’s not like every high IQ person joins MENSA - only those who get officially tested do. This doesn’t happen to every gifted child, in fact I’d say it’s the exception not the rule.


Einstein never had his IQ measured, he’d most likely be around 170, but 160-175 is a safe estimate. Meaning at least his IQ would be 160. Whereas for someone like Stephen Hawking, AT MOST his IQ is 160. There’s a big difference there.

I said in a prior post that 160+ is the zone of genius, which is true. Someone with 160 IQ is borderline genius. Proper geniuses - renaissance men — will display IQs of 180+.

I’ve spent a lot of time having my intelligence tested and being around really intelligent people. By paying attention, I’ve grown quite good at estimating someone’s IQ. I’d put you @BizyDad at around 125-140.

Also — to the untrained eye, the genius is hard to distinguish from the fool. For example, have a look at Christopher Langan whom I mentioned before. YOU @BizyDad would think he’s a RETARD or otherwise MAD, I’m convinced. And yet Langan has an IQ of 200 — surpassing most of the historically accepted geniuses, despite not exceeding any of them in achievements.

Your IQ is the proportion of your ability to solve problems to the average mans possibility at a special age.

1.
So if you do the tests several times or several tests, your imagined IQ will Allways rise, as you get used to the tests.
So if you test yourself 10 times, you can’t take the results seriously.

2. IQ is tested at children and youths and compares them to the abilities of average ppl other ages.
If the average of your age is tje same as yours, you are at 100.
so, if you test or let test yourself as an adult, you will never get an adequate result. It must be wrong per definition.

My dad did IQ tests about 40 years long and I had much contact to that. So I know, that your attempts to get other adult s IQ have no real meaning.
If you want to know, you need to get to know the IQ test results of the ppl as children!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Ing]

Your IQ is the proportion of your ability to solve problems to the average mans possibility at a special age.

1.
So if you do the tests several times or several tests, your imagined IQ will Allways rise, as you get used to the tests.
So if you test yourself 10 times, you can’t take the results seriously.

2. IQ is tested at children and youths and compares them to the abilities of average ppl other ages.
If the average of your age is tje same as yours, you are at 100.
so, if you test or let test yourself as an adult, you will never get an adequate result. It must be wrong per definition.

My dad did IQ tests about 40 years long and I had much contact to that. So I know, that your attempts to get other adult s IQ have no real meaning.
If you want to know, you need to get to know the IQ test results of the ppl as children!

And yes, intelligent people can be unsuccessful in business. That I can testify.

 

[Antifragile]

IQ in that case is clearly used as a synonym of intelligence, which is much easier to use when discussing general rules with general concepts.

I am happy to discuss anything else business related, but I said everything I had to on this topic.

Give me a break. You’ve been using tautology to create an argument out of thin air. And now you are trying to play some “high ground“?

Let me summarize your thread:

A target shooter claims that he can always hit the bull’s-eye. He aims at the side of a barn, shoots a hole in the wood, then goes up and draws a target around the hole he just made, giving himself a bull’s-eye.

 

[BizyDad]

A target shooter claims that he can always hit the bull’s-eye. He aims at the side of a barn, shoots a hole in the wood, then goes up and draws a target around the hole he just made, giving himself a bull’s-eye.

I love it. Now that shooter is the real genius. A true problem solver. Talk about making lemonade out of lemons. He's going to go real far...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Antifragile]

I love it. Now that shooter is the real genius. A true problem solver. Talk about making lemonade out of lemons. He's going to go real far...

Genius level IQ…

 

[Simon Angel]

Does anyone else read the replies with both pleasure and a slight queasiness? Or it is my heartburn?

Nevertheless, I'm entertained by the numerous plotlines emerging in this thread:

@Antifragile vs @monnffffiiiiiii

@Black_Dragon43 vs @BizyDad

IQ vs The Fastlane Forum

EDIT: And even some tag-team action by @Antifragile and @BizyDad