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Dopamine. The missing piece of the success puzzle. (Improve Locus of Control, Motivation, Self-control)

Rabby

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oooo I'm adventurous.. looking for a business partner? :p
Haha, not at the moment. :rofl: But you would definitely be fun to work with, Chris.
 

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I'm adventurous too! :hilarious: And your comment about "not pushing the same button again&again until you die" really resonates with me. If I have to do a manual process more than once, I'll write a script (program) to do it for me. Hate repetitive mindless tasks.
 
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ChrisV

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For anyone more interested in Impulse Control issues check this out.

The first thing I have to say is, the consensus is that an ADHD disgnosis exists on the far end of a spectrum of traits. The point here is not ADHD. The point is that by understanding ADHD research, it can help you understand human impulsivity. It's not yes or no, it's a matter of 'how much.'

Everyone has some degree impulse control issues.

As you can see here, Attention is the least of an ADDer's worries:

Screen Shot 2019-08-22 at 2.58.53 PM.png

Lower IQ. Lower Educational attainment. Higher Neuroticism. Higher Depression. Higher Obesity. Higher rates of Drug Abuse. This is a serious disorder and I think just focusing on the "Attention" aspects is a slap in the face of anyone dealing with it.

Now Dr. Russell Barkley is the world's leading ADHD expert. I highly recommend anyone more interested in anything I said in this thread to check out this talk which gives 30 essential ideas about ADHD. Note that this talk was from 5 years ago, before we could really test genetics and assess from there. He even mentions it in the talk "in about 5 years we'll be able to test genetics and figure out what to do from there."

Again, I want to stress that everyone has some amount of Impulse control Issues / ADHD, and it's just a matter of the severity of those issues. Check out his talk here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo
 
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Thanks I think I skimmed over that post. And forgot the most important part ( getting a genetic test done and speaking to pros and specialists.)

What I was getting at was more a product that can assist with maintaining healthy dopamine levels which would be non-medicinal, nor anything to do with human biological systems.

Basically - a tech product that sort of keeps your dopamine levels at a healthy level and rewards structured habits and tasks which lead to certain results, sort of a process gamification reward system. But anyway that's nothing new really, but in combination with specific knowledge, research and testing ( as demonstrated in the post) you could come up with a new system.
This is the most disempowering solution in the whole thread. I was worried this would happen @ChrisV, to ignore the effective approaches in favor of woo, product developing a pill to ingest or app or a guru solution, promoting the attitude of just going out and BUYING something, like a DNA test which is nowhere shown to make the real change, @ChrisV.
Yaysus.

The brain in your skull is not driven by neurochemistry. Rather, thoughts drive your effin neurochemistry.

Guess what, fellow human mammals, we can and do change our temperament (resilience, susceptibility to maladaptive behaviors) just by UNDERSTANDING.

The wrong understanding causes rebound behavior and sharpens cravings.

The wrong understanding designs the addictive mindset.

The brain is designed to respond to new knowledge. Thoughts reconfigure temperament.

Read "Indistractible". Learn about the kind of thinking that primes addictive and self-sabotaging behavior.

@Fox 75 Hard, is impossible to complete as long as you have the wrong concept about will power, or can which be fantastically life-changing if you understand what you're doing another way.

Drop the no-brainer pill-popping mindset and dreaming of a crutch, a temporary fix.

The perpetual addictive mindset wants to believe that chemicals are the (temporary) answer and that personal agency can simply disappear because ... chemistry happens.

All due respect, it's a self-imposed delusion. We who have struggled with addiction know of this. We can default to delusional powerless behavior. Depending on your mind, on what you think.

Human mammals do rely on consciousness. Rats don't. You have more going on, more power to change, than lab rats genetically altered to extremes for neurobiological experimentation.

You are free, rat is not, to change your neurochemistry,

Nothing works better to permanently change behavior than what you understand and feel about what you are doing in a particular moment.

Everyone please get out of this clown car.
 
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ChrisV

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I invite everyone to watch this short video by Dr Russell Barkley, the world most respected ADHD researcher. I even started it it at the correct timestamp to save you time. He discusses genetic testing here.

View: https://youtu.be/SHVbx293eCs?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&t=121

Consensus estimates from more than 30 twin studies indicate that the heritability of ADHD is 70–80% throughout the lifespan and that environmental risks are those not shared by siblings. Twin studies also suggest that diagnosed ADHD represents the extreme tail of one or more heritable quantitative traits.


From the latest paper in Nature. You can read the full paper here.

Using genetic tests in treatment is called "Precision Medicine." By understanding the underlying genetics you can figure out what to do from there.



And optionally, this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tpB-B8BXk0


Ask for evidence. Don't take everything you read off the internet to heart. Including even my posts.
 
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Bertram

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I invite everyone to watch this short video by Dr Russell Barkley, the world most respected ADHD researcher. I even started it it at the correct timestamp to save you time. He discusses genetic testing here.

View: https://youtu.be/SHVbx293eCs?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&t=121

Using genetic tests in treatment is called "Precision Medicine." By understanding the underlying genetics you can figure out what to do from there.



And optionally, this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tpB-B8BXk0


Ask for evidence. Don't take everything you read off the internet to heart. Including even my posts.
A Youtube video is not scientific evidence.
And Barkley is a clinical psychologist, not a neuroscientist, therefore not the "world's most respected" anything with regard to genetics, medicine, human physiology, or neuroscience.
That's just the way it is. He might speak to these topics on YouTube, but no, he's just the involuntary strawman on this thread.
 
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ChrisV

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A Youtube video is not scientific evidence.
Barkley is a clinical psychologist, not a neuroscientist, therefore not the "world's most respected" anything with regard to genetics, medicine, human physiology, or neuroscience.
That's just the way it is. He might speak to these topics on YouTube, but no, he's just the involuntary strawman on this thread.
Okay so provide evidence for your argument. You know how this works. Show me the data!

The evidence. The support. Go ahead.. shoot.

You show me one molecules of evidence, I'll shut up right now.

Because we've been trying behavioral interventions for decades with almost no success.

PS Barkley is a researcher as well. He's authored almost 200 papers on ADHD. He has an h-index of 130, which is almost double that of the average for Nobel Laureates.

 

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I invite everyone to watch this short video by Dr Russell Barkley, the world most respected ADHD researcher. I even started it it at the correct timestamp to save you time. He discusses genetic testing here.

View: https://youtu.be/SHVbx293eCs?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&t=121

Consensus estimates from more than 30 twin studies indicate that the heritability of ADHD is 70–80% throughout the lifespan and that environmental risks are those not shared by siblings. Twin studies also suggest that diagnosed ADHD represents the extreme tail of one or more heritable quantitative traits.


From the latest paper in Nature. You can read the full paper here.

Using genetic tests in treatment is called "Precision Medicine." By understanding the underlying genetics you can figure out what to do from there.



And optionally, this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tpB-B8BXk0


Ask for evidence. Don't take everything you read off the internet to heart. Including even my posts.
Your guy in this video - from 2012 - is a paid speaking consultant for major pharmaceutical companies and has been accused of conflict of interest.
 
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ChrisV

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Your guy in this video from 2012 is a paid speaking consultant for an ADHD pharmaceutical company.
Lol, you're lucky I like you.
 

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Okay so provide evidence for your argument. You know how this works. Show me the data!

The evidence. The support. Go ahead.. shoot.

You show me one molecules of evidence, I'll shut up right now.

Because we've been trying behavioral interventions for decades with almost no success.

PS Barkley is a researcher as well. He's authored almost 200 papers on ADHD. He has an h-index of 130, which is almost double that of the average for Nobel Laureates.

OMG.
"Show me data to prove the Easter Bunny doesn't exist."
You're not even reading my comments.
Here's my message: your guy Barkley is not a scientist in the fields where you claim that he is an international authority.
You prescribe a very unhealthy approach.
You even invite people to call you up for therapeutic insight.
This is not cool at all.
Also, what's this about "we" trying behavioral interventions?
You stepped over the line from life coaching to neuropsychological counseling. In what state are you licensed to practice?
DNA counseling as a helpful approach for addictions or ADHD treatment make sense, but only to dignify the narrative of disease.
I don't think anyone needs a degree or license to inform, investigate or analyze. But you're in no position to be prescribing r-t sh-t.

Okay so provide evidence for your argument. You know how this works. Show me the data!

The evidence. The support. Go ahead.. shoot.

You show me one molecules of evidence, I'll shut up right now.

Because we've been trying behavioral interventions for decades with almost no success.

PS Barkley is a researcher as well. He's authored almost 200 papers on ADHD. He has an h-index of 130, which is almost double that of the average for Nobel Laureates.

Evidence? Support?

Respectfully, open a college textbook.
Introduction to Psychology. Introduction to Human Biology. Introduction to Neurobiology, Sophomore edition. Better not to skim.

This is not condescending advice. The fundamentals are missing here and that includes research methodology.

You've actually misread the paragraph from Nature you quoted, big time, probably due to intense theoretical bias ... the Easter Bunny lives!

That's not how science should proceed. I mentioned this at the start of this thread. A "good-enough for me" methodology violates quality assurances. It's more like marketing, hegemonizing, than science. Storytelling.

You misread the paragraph you quoted, choosing to interpret the meaning that a 70-80% heritability of a gene - even latent inheritance! - can (and therefore it always will!) show up in behavioral traits accounting for (of course every single time!) 70-80% of each and every individual's experience. This is sheer misunderstanding, based on your biased wishful thinking and on a few gaps in knowledge.

Serious about the college textbooks.

You mostly assumed token authority as a neuropsychologist on this thread, among other things posting what you call a personality test, more like one trait test but go ahead, after all you don't have a clinical license.

Sophomore psychology textbook will explain the exact problem with this approach. There is no shortcut.

The trait test you posted has been seriously, seriously knocked down as unreliable and unprofessional for several years. Look it up for yourself, you have fingers and a keyboard. Even the authors Costa and McCrae say use with caution, judiciously, never use it as a lone diagnostic test in actual clinical practice, and, hey, actually it only covers 57 percent of personality traits anyway. You want me to look all this up for you instead of just pointing you to it maybe because you only want to read research supporting your bias. Just the Easter Bunny papers please, ma'ám. Nothing more. I get that feeling.

RESIST!

You even misapply Barkley's message to suit your purposes. Read what he has to said about intentional deficit disorder."

And as for the other 43 percent of your readers' personality traits that is completely left out of the Big 5? Do some of them that have more relevance to ADHD than the 57 percent in the test? Notice the Big 5 isn't designed to give a full analysis?

Fuggedbowdit.

We'll just pretend it's an all-purpose and complete test. So what if it is not.

For some, sometimes, there might be a temptation to light a buzz, even at risk of seriously misleading and harming people who are actually psychologically frail and in serious danger. As long as We the Researcher says "check with your doctor" and implies the warning ""read at your own risk this woo is strong," you can propose anything, risks be damned.

This approach is belittling and irresponsible to a medical population. Posting psych tests and interpretations then leaving it up to unknown, and unknown numbers of, individual forum visitors to be able to know how and when to hit the brakes on all your wishful thinking here is very unsettling, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this worry.

That's my problem with this. That, and your Easter Bunny does not exist.
 

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Here's my message: your guy Barkley is not a scientist in the fields where you claim that he is an international authority.
Lmfao, what the hell are you talking about? Russell Barkley is the #1 most cited ADHD researcher in the world. Here's the list:


"your guy Barkley is not a scientist in the fields where you claim that he is an international authority"

Oh. Okay. Gotcha.

You stepped over the line from life coaching to neuropsychological counseling. In what state are you licensed to practice?
What the actual F*ck. Have you inhaled too many mushroom spores? I tell people "if you have anything more serious than minor issues, talk to a doctor."

You tell people "if you have these serious life issues read this book on distraction"

My advice is: get a genetic test so you know what you're working with, then discuss those results with a doctor. It's awareness spreading. Nowhere Nowhere Nowhere have I recommended any other advice other that Exercise, Meditation, getting a Genetic Test and talking to a doctor.

@garyfritz - have I recommended anything other than these things?

Probably will help:

Exercise
- Not only does it boost DA, but in addition exercise increases the number of receptors in the brain which actually has very very pronounced effects.. it essentially raises DA neurotransmission in two separate ways [1] [2] [3]
Meditation [1] (This study found a SIXTY-FIVE PERCENT increase in dopamine release after meditation, although that high of a number may not be typical) [2][3]
Getting 8 hours sleep is just good for everything
Reduce sugar (sugar causes a dopamine spike, but down regulates receptors.. causing really bad long-term effects, switch to fruits which don't cause spikes) [1]
Plenty of sunlight! [1] [2] Sunlight
Setting Small Goals (breaking your big goals into chunks) [1]
Setting S.M.A.R.T. Goals - Specific, Measurable, Assignable, Realistic, Time-related – specify when the result(s) can be achieved.
Eating Protein (foods high in phenylalanine/tyrosine) [1]

Might help:

Listen to music
[1] [2] [3]
Reducing Saturated Fat [1] (saturated fat is NOT as evil as the media made it out to be so wouldn’t go crazy,) but one study found that rats that consumed 50% of their calories from saturated fat had reduced dopamine signaling in the reward areas of their brain, compared to animals receiving the same amount of calories from unsaturated fat
Probiotics [1] [2] [3]
Supplements: L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalinine, L-theanine, Phosphatidylserine, Curcumin, Ginkgo Biloba, Mucuna Pruriens
This is all stuff to speak with your doctor or specialist about.
But if problems still persist despite that, you should get a genetic test and talk to an ADHD doctor.
This is going to be solved in the future, but for now people can PM me for referrals of doctors that use this method.
But this is not DIY territory. It's really sophisticated
I'm hesitant to comment on solutions in detail because it's epically dumb to tinker with the DA system without a doctors care
So if telling people to exercise, meditate, eat enough protein and talk to a doctor. You certainly don't need a license for telling people to exercise and see a doctor. If you did, every mom in the united states would be guilty of it.

But whatever thank you for continuing to bump my thread.
 
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Bertram

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What are you talking about lol. I tell people "if you have anything more serious than minor issues, talk to a doctor."

You tell people "if you have these serious life issues read this book on distraction"

My advice is: get a genetic test so you know what you're working with, then discuss those results with a doctor. It's awareness spreading. Nowhere Nowhere Nowhere have I recommended any other advice other that Exercise, Meditation, getting a Genetic Test and talking to a doctor.

@garyfritz - have I recommended anything other than these things?




So if telling people to exercise, meditate, eat enough protein and talk to a doctor. You certainly don't need a license for telling people to exercise and see a doctor. If you did, every mom in the united states would be guilty of it. If that's crossing a line, I apologize, but I don't think it's out of line.



Lmfao, what? Russell Barkley is the #1 most cited ADHD researcher in the world. Here's the list:


But whatever thank you for continuing to bump my thread.
You'll get better. I think.
 

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What are you talking about lol. I tell people "if you have anything more serious than minor issues, talk to a doctor."

You tell people "if you have these serious life issues read this book on distraction"

My advice is: get a genetic test so you know what you're working with, then discuss those results with a doctor. It's awareness spreading. Nowhere Nowhere Nowhere have I recommended any other advice other that Exercise, Meditation, getting a Genetic Test and talking to a doctor.

@garyfritz - have I recommended anything other than these things?




So if telling people to exercise, meditate, eat enough protein and talk to a doctor. You certainly don't need a license for telling people to exercise and see a doctor. If you did, every mom in the united states would be guilty of it. If that's crossing a line, I apologize, but I don't think it's out of line.



Lmfao, what? Russell Barkley is the #1 most cited ADHD researcher in the world. Here's the list:


But whatever thank you for continuing to bump my thread.
And I quote:

"Re: Adderall - I said a few times in this thread i do not recommend Adderall, whether or not you have ADHD ... It's not a good long term solution, or even a good short term one ... By getting your DA levels in check in healthier ways, you can have the effects of Adderall without the major side effects of Adderall..."
 
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Just the Easter Bunny papers please, ma'ám. Nothing more. I get that feeling.
Yea, we ask for sources so that people don't just pull bullshit out of thin air like you're doing

That's the purpose of citations. To keep people honest and make sure they're not making shit up. Again, like you're doing.

And stop going back and editing your posts.

And I quote:

"Re: Adderall - I said a few times in this thread i do not recommend Adderall, whether or not you have ADHD ... It's not a good long term solution, or even a good short term one ... By getting your DA levels in check in healthier ways, you can have the effects of Adderall without the major side effects of Adderall..."
Dude do you know what Adderall is? Adderall is literal Amphetamine.

Literal amphetamine. Adderall (Amphetamine, Dextroamphetamine Mixed Salts): Side Effects, Interactions, Warning, Dosage & Uses

So no, I'm not going to recommend amphetamine on an Entrepreneurship forum. And I think warning people about it before they start going to their doctors like "can I have some amphetamine" is a good thing.

Sure if someone doctor says that's the best solution they should go for it. But I am not recommending literal speed here. Sorry.

You misread the paragraph you quoted, choosing to interpret the meaning that a 70-80% heritability of a gene - even latent inheritance! - can (and therefore it always will!) show up in behavioral traits accounting for (of course every single time!) 70-80% of each and every individual's experience. This is sheer misunderstanding, based on your biased wishful thinking and on a few gaps in knowledge.
What the actual F*ck are you talking about?

That is not heritability of the GENE. It's heritability of the TRAIT. There is no ONE ADHD GENE. It's a polygenetic disorder.

I absolutely, positively, did not misread any paragraph from Nature. I'm subscribed to the journal. I read almost everything they publish.

Consensus estimates from more than 30 twin studies indicate that the heritability of ADHD is 70–80% throughout the lifespan and that environmental risks are those not shared by siblings. Twin studies also suggest that diagnosed ADHD represents the extreme tail of one or more heritable quantitative traits.

It does not say the "Heritability or rs90210," which is what it would have said if they were talking about chromosomes like you seem to think they're talking about.

70-80% is the consensus.

Twin studies indicate that the disorder is often inherited from one's parents with genetics determining about 75% of cases. Siblings of children with ADHD are three to four times more likely to develop the disorder than siblings of children without the disorder. Genetic factors are also believed to be involved in determining whether ADHD persists into adulthood.

You can literally find that on Wikipedia - Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - Wikipedia

Pooled data from 20 twin studies estimated the mean heritability of ADHD to be 76% (study data from the United States, the European Union, Scandinavia

https://adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adhd/aetiology/heritability/

Decades of research show that genes play an vital role in the etiology of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and its comorbidity with other disorders. Family, twin, and adoption studies show that ADHD runs in families. ADHD’s high heritability of 74% motivated the search for ADHD susceptibility genes. Genetic linkage studies show that the effects of DNA risk variants on ADHD must, individually, be very small. Genome-wide association studies (GWAS) have implicated several genetic loci at the genome-wide level of statistical significance.


You are seriously scaring me.

Do you know the difference between a Genotype and a Phenotype? I'm being serious here



Genotype heritability is totally different than phenotype heritability. Genotype are the actual genes. Phenotypes are the actual traits. If you're gonna say dumb shit like "pick up a text book" you should probably know that.

The genotype is the part of the genetic makeup of a cell, and therefore of any individual, which determines one of its characteristics (phenotype)

Keep going. Because with every easily disprovable thing you write your credibility plummets further and people are less likely to read your favorite book.

ADHD is 70-80% heritable.

Let's listen to the worlds most cited ADHD researcher rather than listening to Bertrand:

View: https://youtu.be/Bs9-uAvPSrw?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&t=259


(note, 65% is an old figure before we had serious advancements in Genome Wide Association Studies. The newer number is 75.)

The rest of the stuff I'm not even responding to because it's so insane.
 
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The trait test you posted has been seriously, seriously knocked down as unreliable and unprofessional for several years. Look it up for yourself, you have fingers and a keyboard. Even the authors Costa and McCrae say use with caution, judiciously, never use it as a lone diagnostic test in actual clinical practice, and, hey, actually it only covers 57 percent of personality traits anyway. You want me to look all this up for you instead of just pointing you to it maybe because you only want to read research supporting your bias. Just the Easter Bunny papers please, ma'ám. Nothing more. I get that feeling.
Nobody is saying to use a freakin Big 5 as a diagnostic test. What the shit?

And the Big Five is the most scientifically validated personality measure there is in 2019.


If you have a better one, I'd love to see it.

No, actually I don't care. I've wasted enough time on this.
 
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For the rest of the people here, if I had to stress one thing, it would be this:


It's short. I started it at the correct Timestamp.

The solutions I listed allows you to sidestep that.
 

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Amazing. Wow i haven't workout for months. It's a bit technical so i might have to read it again several times but this is amazing. I must try it.
 
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Amazing. Wow i haven't workout for months. It's a bit technical so i might have to read it again several times but this is amazing. I must try it.
Apologies. This stuff is very hard to communicate in a simple way while still maintaining accuracy.

I wrote a post a few years ago about how exercise has been shown to enhance motivation and cognitive ability

 

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Apologies. This stuff is very hard to communicate in a simple way while still maintaining accuracy.

I wrote a post a few years ago about how exercise has been shown to enhance motivation and cognitive ability

I will definitely check it out, nevermind it, i love science stuff so it can't stop me :D
 

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Nobody is saying to use a freakin Big 5 as a diagnostic test. What the shit?

And the Big Five is the most scientifically validated personality measure there is in 2019.


If you have a better one, I'd love to see it.

No, actually I don't care. I've wasted enough time on this.
Wow, this just goes to show how you skipped the foundations COMPLETELY. Your "Personality Test" posted above for readers to use ... what is it based on? How was it constructed? It's a composite of tests based on ... you guessed it. [Edit"" answer is the Big 5. BTW this text only cover 53 percent of peronsal traits]
Second, you are using the Big 5 or rather a useful knockoff paradigm ... FOR DIAGNOSING KINDS OF ADD AND ADHD.

It's a clown car.
 

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Wow, this just goes to show how you skipped the foundations COMPLETELY.

How was it constructed?
Factor Analysis.

Researchers pick out (roughly) every descriptive adjective in the english language, have people describe themselves, then see how they cluster together.

I'm completely aware of the history of the Big 5. I've discussed it here, here and here. The only better model is the HEXACO model, but it's not commonly used, so the amount of research that uses the model is very limited. IPIP is roughly a copyright-free version of the Big 5.

I didn't miss shit.

It's not an ADHD diagnosis. Only a doctor can Diagnose ADHD. You can't want into a doctors office and say "i have ADHD!" They test for it. It's a hint that maybe you should go get tested for it.

I literally said that right here:

If you feel like you have serious attention issues, get tested for ADHD because Inattentive Type ADD and Low-Conscientiousness correlate at the .8 level and if you remember, a .8 correlation is astronomical. They’re essentially synonyms. Your doctor can help you with this. And get tested of all the subtypes of ADHD (ADHD-Combined, ADHD-Primarily Inattentive and a related new disorder called SCT)
I'm sorry you misread.
 

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Yea, we ask for sources so that people don't just pull bullshit out of thin air like you're doing

That's the purpose of citations. To keep people honest and make sure they're not making shit up. Again, like you're doing.

And stop going back and editing your posts.


Dude do you know what Adderall is? Adderall is literal Amphetamine.

Literal amphetamine. Adderall (Amphetamine, Dextroamphetamine Mixed Salts): Side Effects, Interactions, Warning, Dosage & Uses

So no, I'm not going to recommend amphetamine on an Entrepreneurship forum. And I think warning people about it before they start going to their doctors like "can I have some amphetamine" is a good thing.

Sure if someone doctor says that's the best solution they should go for it. But I am not recommending literal speed here. Sorry.



What the actual F*ck are you talking about?

That is not heritability of the GENE. It's heritability of the TRAIT. There is no ONE ADHD GENE. It's a polygenetic disorder.

I absolutely, positively, did not misread any paragraph from Nature. I'm subscribed to the journal. I read almost everything they publish.

Consensus estimates from more than 30 twin studies indicate that the heritability of ADHD is 70–80% throughout the lifespan and that environmental risks are those not shared by siblings. Twin studies also suggest that diagnosed ADHD represents the extreme tail of one or more heritable quantitative traits.

It does not say the "Heritability or rs90210," which is what it would have said if they were talking about chromosomes like you seem to think they're talking about.

70-80% is the consensus.

Twin studies indicate that the disorder is often inherited from one's parents with genetics determining about 75% of cases. Siblings of children with ADHD are three to four times more likely to develop the disorder than siblings of children without the disorder. Genetic factors are also believed to be involved in determining whether ADHD persists into adulthood.

You can literally find that on Wikipedia - Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder - Wikipedia

Pooled data from 20 twin studies estimated the mean heritability of ADHD to be 76% (study data from the United States, the European Union, Scandinavia

ADHD heritability, molecular genetics and biomarkers

Decades of research show that genes play an vital role in the etiology of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and its comorbidity with other disorders. Family, twin, and adoption studies show that ADHD runs in families. ADHD’s high heritability of 74% motivated the search for ADHD susceptibility genes. Genetic linkage studies show that the effects of DNA risk variants on ADHD must, individually, be very small. Genome-wide association studies (GWAS) have implicated several genetic loci at the genome-wide level of statistical significance.


You are seriously scaring me.

Do you know the difference between a Genotype and a Phenotype? I'm being serious here



Genotype heritability is totally different than phenotype heritability. Genotype are the actual genes. Phenotypes are the actual traits. If you're gonna say dumb shit like "pick up a text book" you should probably know that.

The genotype is the part of the genetic makeup of a cell, and therefore of any individual, which determines one of its characteristics (phenotype)

Keep going. Because with every easily disprovable thing you write your credibility plummets further and people are less likely to read your favorite book.

ADHD is 70-80% heritable.

Let's listen to the worlds most cited ADHD researcher rather than listening to Bertrand:

View: https://youtu.be/Bs9-uAvPSrw?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&t=259


(note, 65% is an old figure before we had serious advancements in Genome Wide Association Studies. The newer number is 75.)

The rest of the stuff I'm not even responding to because it's so insane.
Some of your medical expertise on this thread directly advises against taking Adderall.

But Dr. (NOT) ChrisV, some people need treatment with Adderall for a host of disorders, some distinct from ADD/ADHD, like depression and TBI. You should not prescribe usage here either way. Some readers know little English and have come to think you're an addiction researcher speaking as "we" on behalf of "behavioral research for decades," and you go on to proclaim "nothing happening" in successful treatment as of decades, to paraphrase one especially imperious claim of yours. You know what, by the way, you're dead wrong about this, too.

You claimed nothing has been accomplished for decades in ADD/ADHD research. Wrong. Millions are treated and coping. One leader in the field is Ted Hallowell.

Your guy calls himself the world's most famous ADD expert on his own website. That's it. That's all it is. You seem to be the only raving fan who seconds this. His work got out there based on his claim to be the world's most famous clinical psychologist because he is funded by drug companies.

Popular fame and scientific merit have no connection whatsover. Take Nobel prize winners for example. Oh, but you did.

Whether Barkley is or not is not of concern to me. Barkely gave hopeful presentations back in his day, so I applaud him for that, and I have no judgments to make about him, even though he's essentially a spokesman for drug companies. He has the right to be a high-entry salesman. Good for him.

The problem here is that you use him to support your groundless (grandiose) endeavors to downplay
1. behavioral therapy
2. Adderall and other excellent treatments.
for who knows what reason, @ChrisV.

You're trying to direct people about what to say to their medical providers and telling them what medication they need to stay away from and that they can diagnose themselves with the Big 5. You're really doing this here.

Your platform relies on promoting Barkley as the world's biggest expert in
BEHAVIORAL GENETICS.
He is no geneticist.
He does not have the platform that you pretend he has either.

You pretend in order to kinda play shrink here. Maybe you're not aware.

Barkley peaked as as a famous expert in 2010, all due respect to his age and career arc, etc, etc. We all peak and fade into the sunset. Wonder how you found him.

Oh. YouTube
You've provided no primary research here. YouTube videos are not it. Online articles are not it.

No worries, bro.

We all get inspired and energized kicking around all kinds of info on wellbeing and health on this forum, much of it very helpful. (I'm even trying to go vegan.)

We coach, we counsel, we intervene. That's different.

But this thread, it's your circus show, not mine. I mean it is truly up to you to find the citations from primary research to prove the existence of your Easter Bunny, and not up to me to clean up after wild claims.

Also some of your posts on Adderall are unsettling and shaming to those who need it, but that's free speech, go for it. The drug is a life saver.

Just don't prescribe stopping or starting medication in a thread discussion.

That's what you're doing.

Some guys with basic, newish English on here think you're qualified to diagnose. You invite them to call and discuss ... their particular treatment needs. Not good.

The only post I edited was one with too strongly worded negative comments.
 
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Bertram

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Factor Analysis.

Researchers pick out (roughly) every descriptive adjective in the english language, have people describe themselves, then see how they cluster together.

I'm completely aware of the history of the Big 5. I've discussed it here, here and here. The only better model is the HEXACO model, but it's not commonly used, so the amount of research that uses the model is very limited. IPIP is roughly a copyright-free version of the Big 5.

I didn't miss shit.

It's not an ADHD diagnosis. Only a doctor can Diagnose ADHD. You can't want into a doctors office and say "i have ADHD!" They test for it. It's a hint that maybe you should go get tested for it.

I literally said that right here:



I'm sorry you misread.
As you say about the personality test you posted above,
"IPIP is roughly a copyright-free version of the Big 5.

And you're using the Big 5 to address ADD/ADHD by correlational studies (barf) as if the correlations can be used by individuals like complete diagnostic and prescriptive tools. That's self-diagnosis and treatment. Just look at the comments. It's a free country.

You offer the DIY tools in the context of offering a test and various forms of treatment known as insight therapy and DIY behavioral genetics counseling, as well as redirecting towards a wellness focus.

The problem is that some people will do all this and miss getting a real diagnosis that is THE diagnosis and the one that would make all the difference. That needs to be challenged.
 
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ChrisV

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Also some of your posts on Adderall are unsettling and shaming to those who need it, but that's free speech, go for it. The drug is a life saver.
I think you're misunderstanding my take on Adderall.

I've been on Adderall. It turned my entire life around in 8th grade.

Your criticism about the Adderall quote you pasted is fair enough. I think this if anything, it was a poor choice of wording.

See, the problem with this is when I say “In X study it was shown to increase motivation” people will read this and see me talking about adderall and want to get their hands on it. People see shit on an Entrepreneurship forum and say "this can make me successful... wait my buddy sells his Adderall.. let me go ask him to buy some." We're talking about a medication that has an extremely high risk of diversion. If someone's physician recommends it, then they should go for it.

But doctors don't even like prescribing Adderall anymore. If anything Vyvanse. Vyvanse is Amphetamine with a Lysine molecule attached to it, so it gets digested differently, therefore giving it a significantly lower potential for abuse.

So perhaps my wording was less than ideal? I don't know.

But regardless, for the reasons discussed above I am very hesitant to even talk about it because of it's availability to buy off the streets.

I have to be very careful when I’m citing adderall research becasue I’m using it as a proxy for dopamine release, not saying “go get some adderall!”

I’m not sure where you get 'people should come off their meds' from that.

I think you're taking the objective words and implanting what you think I mean by them.

I'm an advocate for Adderall use in those who need it.

Your guy calls himself to be the world's most famous ADD expert on his own website. That's it. That's all it is. You seem to be the only raving fan who seconds this.
Dude give it a break. The way "we" assess a scientists contributions is by how many other researchers have cited their work. You know this. Barkley is the most cited ADHD researcher in the world.

For anybody else:

The "h-index" was introduced in 2005 as a metric for estimating "the importance, significance and broad impact of a scientist's cumulative contributions." It takes into account both the number of an individual's publications and their impact on peers, as indicated by citation counts.

Its creator, Jorge Hirsch (UC-San Diego) asserts that a "successful scientist" will have an h-index of 20 after 20 years; an "outstanding scientist" will have an index of 40 after 20 years; and a "truly unique individual" will have an index of 60 after 20 years or 90 after 30 years.


- CARNEGIE INSTITUTE OF WASHINGTON

According to studies, 62 is the average of Nobel Prize winning researchers.

1566757817565.png

Barkley is double that. So no, I am not the only one who ‘seconds this.’ It’s the 87,000 other pieces of research that have cited him. Do you have any idea how many 87,000 papers are?

This is neither here nor there. It’s completely Ad Hominem. If you have an issue with what he said, address the claim, and no the person. Provide evidence where you think the 70-80% consensus is wrong.

You yourself provided no primary research here. YouTube videos are not it. Online articles are not it.
Again, I have no idea what the shit you are talking about. My posts are positively littered with 'primary sources' from the world more reputable journals. They’re either Primary, or extremely reputable. Nature, PLOS One, etc. Or researchers where you can easily look up their primary research. You do realize that this is a explanation for a lay audience, and not a scientific paper, right? There is no necessity for ‘primary’… just reputable.

But even when I do post primary research like Nature or whatever, each one you have some logically fallacious way of bobbing and weaving like you’re Mohammad Ali.

Online articles? You do realize that Journals post their articles online, right?

If there’s a popular article, go look at the citations.

1. behavioral therapy
Whoa! I was waiting for you to cite Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Good work!

Finally, a solid, empirically-validated, reputable, non-fallacious argument. I'm proud.

CBT is actually one of the treatments that 'we' know works.

But note that CBT is very different from the 'behavioral interventions'

And I hope you realize that citing CBT research is very different from "go read Indistractible"

26830 26827 26829

That being said, I'm happy you actually provided valid support for your argument.

as if the correlations can be used by individuals like a complete diagnostic and prescriptive tool
Please see:

If you feel like you have serious attention issues, get tested for ADHD
Some guys with basic, newish English on here
Yea, I agree. His username is @Bertram. Okay okay, kidding.
 

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@Bertram

Dude literally every rebuttal you’ve had has been obliterated by Chris. Give it up.

Chris:
  1. Here’s some common ways to help treat the issue
  2. Ask your doctor
  3. Adderall may help but be cautious when taking any medication
  4. The how and why these chemicals affect our actions and brains. Along with mountains of evidence
  5. Cites primary work and well respected individuals cited over 80k times
You:
  1. Read this book
  2. Change your mindset

There is a clown car here, but you’re the driver.
 
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ChrisV

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@Bertram

Dude literally every rebuttal you’ve had has been obliterated by Chris. Give it up.

Chris:
  1. Here’s some common ways to help treat the issue
  2. Ask your doctor
  3. Adderall may help but be cautious when taking any medication
  4. The how and why these chemicals affect our actions and brains. Along with mountains of evidence
  5. Cites primary work and well respected individuals cited over 80k times
Yea, I'm trying not to be a dick because I like the guy, but I probably should have said "Adderall may help but be cautious when taking any medication" (like you said.) It was an oversight in wording on my part.
 

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Yea, I'm trying not to be a dick because I like the guy, but I probably should have said "Adderall may help but be cautious when taking any medication" (like you said.) It was an oversight in wording on my part.
Eh, it happens when you’re producing multi thousand word posts. Thanks for the write up!

Going to do some of my own research on diet and environment design regarding dopamine production.
 

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I think you're misunderstanding my take on Adderall.

I've been on Adderall. It turned my entire life around in 8th grade.

Your criticism about the Adderall quote you pasted is fair enough. I think this if anything, it was a poor choice of wording.

See, the problem with this is when I say “In X study it was shown to increase motivation” people will read this and see me talking about adderall and want to get their hands on it. People see shit on an Entrepreneurship forum and say "this can make me successful... wait my buddy sells his Adderall.. let me go ask him to buy some." We're talking about a medication that has an extremely high risk of diversion. If someone's physician recommends it, then they should go for it.

But doctors don't even like prescribing Adderall anymore. If anything Vyvanse. Vyvanse is Amphetamine with a Lysine molecule attached to it, so it gets digested differently, therefore giving it a significantly lower potential for abuse.

So perhaps my wording was less than ideal? I don't know.

But regardless, for the reasons discussed above I am very hesitant to even talk about it because of it's availability to buy off the streets.

I have to be very careful when I’m citing adderall research becasue I’m using it as a proxy for dopamine release, not saying “go get some adderall!”

I’m not sure where you get 'people should come off their meds' from that.

I think you're taking the objective words and implanting what you think I mean by them.

I'm an advocate for Adderall use in those who need it.


Dude give it a break. The way "we" assess a scientists contributions is by how many other researchers have cited their work. You know this. Barkley is the most cited ADHD researcher in the world.

For anybody else:

The "h-index" was introduced in 2005 as a metric for estimating "the importance, significance and broad impact of a scientist's cumulative contributions." It takes into account both the number of an individual's publications and their impact on peers, as indicated by citation counts.

Its creator, Jorge Hirsch (UC-San Diego) asserts that a "successful scientist" will have an h-index of 20 after 20 years; an "outstanding scientist" will have an index of 40 after 20 years; and a "truly unique individual" will have an index of 60 after 20 years or 90 after 30 years.


- CARNEGIE INSTITUTE OF WASHINGTON

According to studies, 62 is the average of Nobel Prize winning researchers.

View attachment 26825

Barkley is double that. So no, I am not the only one who ‘seconds this.’ It’s the 87,000 other pieces of research that have cited him. Do you have any idea how many 87,000 papers are?

This is neither here nor there. It’s completely Ad Hominem. If you have an issue with what he said, address the claim, and no the person. Provide evidence where you think the 70-80% consensus is wrong.



Again, I have no idea what the shit you are talking about. My posts are positively littered with 'primary sources' from the world more reputable journals. They’re either Primary, or extremely reputable. Nature, PLOS One, etc. Or researchers where you can easily look up their primary research. You do realize that this is a explanation for a lay audience, and not a scientific paper, right? There is no necessity for ‘primary’… just reputable.

But even when I do post primary research like Nature or whatever, each one you have some logically fallacious way of bobbing and weaving like you’re Mohammad Ali.

Online articles? You do realize that Journals post their articles online, right?

If there’s a popular article, go look at the citations.


Whoa! I was waiting for you to cite Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Good work!

Finally, a solid, empirically-validated, reputable, non-fallacious argument. I'm proud.

CBT is actually one of the treatments that 'we' know works.

But note that CBT is very different from the 'behavioral interventions'

And I hope you realize that citing CBT research is very different from "go read Indistractible"

View attachment 26830View attachment 26827View attachment 26829

That being said, I'm happy you actually provided valid support for your argument.


Please see:




Yea, I agree. His username is @Bertram. Okay okay, kidding.
We're getting somewhere.

"But even when I do post primary research like Nature or whatever ..."

Nature publishes reviews and news stories, not really much primary research and really no hard science. It feeds the soul. The website is really more of a browser for articles than a peer reviewed journal, So it's more or less a journal of ideas. An article synthesizing research is a news story in a peer-reviewed journal, not primary research. Play with caution.

Carnegie Foundation stats have nothing to do with weighing the merit of any study or theoretical claim or body of work, actually. Even when a scientists has passion and has been on the scene for decades and effectively developed their field does not mean they are expert in other fields. So Barkley is no geneticist. Geneticists generally don't assign more than 25-30% of behavior to genes even when heritability is 70-80 percent. Non-geneticists will sometimes think this way.

Something weird to support this: with high ovarian cancer heritability, the incidence of ovarian cancer in primary family members is actually lower than in the general population. Sick, huh? Something weirder: caregivers who treat ovarian cancer patients say anecdotally that they can tell when a patient has it without anyone knowing diagnosis by looking at the way the partner relates to the patient. So much for the DNA results, man.

The main criticism I have for your approach is related to this example.

Understanding changes temperament. Temperament governs physiology.

"Indistractible" gives fantastic examples of the way that misunderstanding your behavior or certain ways of thinking can imprison you in a frame of mind that undermines you.

The wrong understanding of distraction or addiction or depression actually sets up the kinds of temperament and the mindsets that will undermine you.

So you see, understanding a few things about dopamine, as you pursue this fantasy solution, is not going to get a person with ADD/ ADHD very far, certainly not with regard to "SUCCESS."

The reason is that distracting behaviors really support a pain management system, not simply a buzz-seeking rewards system. They are secondary, the outcome of pain avoidant behavior, like balls rolling across a billiard table after they have been struck by a cue ball. Think of pain management as the pool player hitting the white ball with his cue. Instead your explanation has been focused on the balls moving to the pocket, the little hits of relief.
 

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@Bertram

Dude literally every rebuttal you’ve had has been obliterated by Chris. Give it up.

Chris:
  1. Here’s some common ways to help treat the issue
  2. Ask your doctor
  3. Adderall may help but be cautious when taking any medication
  4. The how and why these chemicals affect our actions and brains. Along with mountains of evidence
  5. Cites primary work and well respected individuals cited over 80k times
You:
  1. Read this book
  2. Change your mindset

There is a clown car here, but you’re the driver.
Funny.
Wrong.
The articles he used were not primary sources. 'Sokay.
Excellent use of my clown car meme.
Read post #89.
Mindset or temperament is the billiard player. Situation is the cue stick. The "reward system" isn't even the cue ball, it's the balls rolling after being struck.
Stop thinking you only have to focus on the rolling billiard ball. You want to be less distracted, be a different billiard player.
 
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