Are IQ (Smarts) and Success Correlated?

[BizyDad]

Does anyone else read the replies with both pleasure and a slight queasiness? Or it is my heartburn?

Nevertheless, I'm entertained by the numerous plotlines emerging in this thread:

@Antifragile vs @monnffffiiiiiii

@Black_Dragon43 vs @BizyDad

IQ vs The Fastlane Forum

EDIT: And even some tag-team action by @Antifragile and @BizyDad

You left out Biophase et al vs Droopynips.

At least Black Dragon is worth the time to debate. He's no Kak though.

You should go find the thread where I accused BD of being on the forum for the wrong reasons. Wooo boy. That was a doozy. He "won" by calling himself the next Walter Hay of the forum.

I'm still keeping track to see how true that prophecy was, but I'll admit I was wrongish about his intentions back then. I'm glad he's on the forum.

 

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[Antifragile]

Does anyone else read the replies with both pleasure and a slight queasiness? Or it is my heartburn?

Nevertheless, I'm entertained by the numerous plotlines emerging in this thread:

@Antifragile vs @monnffffiiiiiii

@Black_Dragon43 vs @BizyDad

IQ vs The Fastlane Forum

EDIT: And even some tag-team action by @Antifragile and @BizyDad

Well… I don’t play video games, what else should I be doing for fun?

 

[jamesgatz]

What amazes me the most is that no one is discussing the issue at hand, which was:

Intelligence, defined as the ability to solve complex problems, is necessary to experience entrepreneurial success, defined as a problem-solving discipline.

If you disagree, I suggest you buy a pair of glasses and stop reading the news.

Yes but entrepreneuring isn‘t only problem solving. Just as football (or as the americanos call it „soccer“) isn‘t only about scoring. Yes it is the aim and wins you games but there is so much more to it. Entrepreneuring requires different skillsets which also depend on the field u specify in. So being intelligent may help you to find a solution to your problem, and get a good idea this way but everything from this point on is much more. You need to have a rocksolid mindset cause also geniuses will eventually land in the dessert of desertion, I think thats why a lot of geniuses go crazy. They just aren‘t used to get to a point where they have to bite trough. Like a superhero fighting in a place his powers have no effect.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

A target shooter claims that he can always hit the bull’s-eye. He aims at the side of a barn, shoots a hole in the wood, then goes up and draws a target around the hole he just made, giving himself a bull’s-eye.

Schopenhauer perspicaciously observed that talent hits a target no one else can hit, but genius hits a target no one else can see.

I tend to agree.

 

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[NeoDialectic]

There seems to be alot of misinformation being peddled about IQ on this thread that I'm surprised hasn't been called out. I've never taken a "real" IQ test, so I don't have any skin in the game to try and pump up IQ's rep. But alot of the claims on here have been wildly ignorant.

1. IQ is NOT trainable. This is commonly misunderstood. Taking a few practice tests can help raise your initial test score as it helps you get into the groove and become familiar with the testing style. You can also learn a few broad tricks (dont spend all your time on one question). Past that, the insane part about IQ is actually how difficult (read: no known way) it is to improve and how rock solid it is throughout someones life... higher educational attainment and endless practice doesn't improve it.

It's actually similar to alot of other genetic performance tests. E.G Your explosive power. Unlike strength..once you get down the basics, every tiny improvement in explosive power is hard fought for.

(This is all in the context of normal cases..... Raising low iq can be a different animal when its stunted by some external factor. For example, providing nourishment to malnourished kids allows them to score higher as they grow up.)

2. IQ vs success isn't exactly the right question to ask. IQ is highly correlated to success at <100. Then the correlation starts to drop off drastically until it fades. Lesson: making money isn't that complicated of a puzzle. A minimum amount helps grease the wheels but endless other factors start to become more important.

Obviously, certain jobs and businesses would require higher levels of intelligence. However, general success does not.

3. IQ is one of the most repeatable and studied phenomenon in psychology. If it turns out IQ is hogwash, then everything else in the field is just astrology. I know the field hasn't exactly made a name for itself in repeatability.... but there are A LOT of studies over a lot of time periods.

EQ, SQ, etc on the other hand is not in the same ballpark. I haven't looked at it in a while but working off memory, EQ and others, when seperate from IQ testing is basically just astrology. Or to be more charitable, its like the personality tests you can take with your friends on FB. You are testing things that CAN be learned and CAN be changed. For example, some people are naturally more persuasive and suave. But you can learn that.

4. Another thing..... there is no "you're just good at taking this type of test if you have a high IQ". IQ is estimating g, which is by definition the overlap of intelligences.

It's obviosly possible to naturally excel in one particular thing. But IQ/g is measuring the common ground.

People with high IQ can generally get very good at almost anything that is dependant on brain performance.

5. As mentioned, I've never taken an actual IQ test. Only the online norway/Denmark mensa tests. From my understanding those are ok for ballpark estimates but not actually serious or reliable. Everything else is even worse. The only "real" IQ test are in-person tests. That would explain some of the posts mentioning "I've taken it many times getting wildly different numbers". Taking the real thing repeatedly will get you different results each time, but they will all cluster around the "right" one. That's my understand of it but maybe @Black_Dragon43 knows more about this.

 

[James Klymus]

I hate this topic because it just gives people another excuse.

“Well the reason I’m not successful is because I’m not smart enough”

Bull shit. If you’re in a 1st world nation you have it EASY. You can do literally anything you want to. There are people in other countries living on dirt floors with a leaky tin roof that go through garbage to find something to sell. They’re lucky if they make a dollar or 2 a day to feed their FAMILY. A mattress costs them 6 months “salary”

Meanwhile we’re arguing if we need to be “smart” in order to be successful.

These people in shitty situations would laugh at this. You have all the opportunity in the world, and you’re really stopping to wonder if you’re smart enough?

F*ck that, realize you have 1000x the number of opportunities of most of the world, and get back to work.

DON’T let some stupid dorks with charts and graphs try to convince you that you can’t be successful because you’re not high IQ

 

[heavy_industry]

Excellent post @NeoDialectic

The only thing that I want to add is this:

the insane part about IQ is actually how difficult (read: no known way) it is to improve and how rock solid it is throughout someones life

IQ peaks in our early 20s, a few years before the brain finishes its development (~25).

Once it reaches this point, there is no known way to increase it. Whoever manages to do this is up for a Nobel prize. The reason is quite simple: the kind of intelligence measured by IQ is a biochemical reaction that happens in the brain. It's a function of our neurology. Bad brain health = bad IQ.

Once it peaks, just like the rest of our bodies, it starts to deteriorate as the years pass by. The brain starts to shrink and gray matter is lost.

Here is how to slow down ageing and prevent this physical and mental decline:

• no brain damaging substances
• no high blood pressure
• no chronically high insulin levels
• no diabetes or insulin resistance (can starve the brain)
• no sleep apnea (can kill neurons due to lack of oxygen)
• no trauma or depression - massive brain damage
• as much physical exercise as possible - both strength and cardio

Exercising releases a miracle protein called BDNF (brain derived neurotropic factor), which has neuroprotective effects and encourages neurogenesis (the birth of new neurons). High levels of BDNF have been shown to shied the brain from neurodegenerative diseases.

(@MJ DeMarco I know you're interested in this subject as well)

I would like to do more research on hyperbaric chamber therapy, and its effects on brain health. Looking forward to recovering my lost smell-receptor neuros from covid.

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

This was a lovely way to spend my afternoon break today. We need more threads like this, that can be turned into a drinking game or a philosophical argument at any point! Love it.

No one brought up the correlation between family meals and success. Apparently that’s a metric superior to location, wealth, and iq. If your family cares enough about you to have dinner together, more often than not, chances are you will be a stable, successful person in life.

So intelligent people should prioritize interpersonal relationships but often they don’t. In fact, more often than not they’re horrible at relationships and walk around feeling alienated. Sad.

Time to go read some Watchman Nee. Ok bye!

 

[Andy Black]

No one brought up the correlation between family meals and success. Apparently that’s a metric superior to location, wealth, and iq. If your family cares enough about you to have dinner together, more often than not, chances are you will be a stable, successful person in life.

I try hard to have us sat round the table for a family meal every day.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

I try hard to have us sat round the table for a family meal every day.

That’s because you’re a really good dad. You act that way on the forum too… how you do one thing is how you do everything right?

 

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[Kak]

I try hard to have us sat round the table for a family meal every day.

Same! I think this is very important. Although I take us out to eat quite a bit too.

 

[Kevin88660]

The problem about IQ is about the way it is being conceptualized, as largely some sort of “innate born ability”.

“Potential and innate” are abstractions. Only performance can be measured.

Take it to the extremely absurd scenario to articulate a point, if someone is fat, he has fat genes, he is doomed.

If someone is lazy, he has lazy genes, he is doomed.

You become a prisoner of an abstract idea.

There is always an outsider view versus an INSIDERS view on a subject matter.

IQ is mostly “socially relevant” to academic performance or competitive mind sports.

The idea of IQ as some sort of “smart genes nonsense” is mainly an outsider view, by people with average/mediocre performance who do not understand how it works.

I used to compete at top level (non-preofessional) for some form of Asian Chess Variants games.

People who don’t understand the games assume we are genius who see ten moves ahead.

In fact we see mostly 1-2 moves ahead, occasionally 3-5 moves in a game.

Most work are done before the games. You know who your competitor is. His games records are publicly available online. Understand his opening habits and run a software analysis to discover loopholes or lay some opening traps. Memorize it. If he fell for it go for the win. If he does not fell for it, simplify to go for a draw. Conserve energy for next game. Avoid draining grind and unpredictable “on the spot performance”. Watch for opponent blunder to get easy wins. Follow the above strategy to maximize the aggregate scores of a tournament.

It has very little resemblance of being a genius but more like behaving like a “machine”.

For every ten top players, one is a genius, nine are machines.