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Are IQ (Smarts) and Success Correlated?

monnffffiiiiiii

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About MJ's "lies to yourself list" all of them are correct, except the IQ one.

Not all smart people are rich, but all self-made rich people are definitely smart.

The correlation between net worth and IQ is a real thing.

And social-economics inequalities are "IQ" inequalities more than anything else.

It's immensely controversial...but it's true.
 
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Kevin88660

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About MJ's "lies to yourself list" all of them are correct, except the IQ one.

Not all smart people are rich, but all self-made rich people are definitely smart.

The correlation between net worth and IQ is a real thing.

And social-economics inequalities are "IQ" inequalities more than anything else.

It's immensely controversial...but it's true.
IQ matters but most people have not worked hard enough till a stage where IQ difference counts.
 

heavy_industry

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About MJ's "lies to yourself list" all of them are correct, except the IQ one.

Not all smart people are rich, but all self-made rich people are definitely smart.
IQ is strongly correlated to success, and it's one of the most consistent findings in statistical psychology.

However in today's world, where you have an abundance of technology, infrastructure, and free access to unlimited knowledge, you don't have to be a genius to become a millionaire. Anyone of average intelligence and decent work ethic can reach this milestone.

If you have high IQ, it means that your car has a powerful engine.
You can take that car and win the race, or you can use it to wrap the nearest tree and die.

So the power of the engine matters, but how you drive it will determine the outcome of your life.
Wisdom beats the hell out of intelligence.
 
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Kevin88660

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IQ is strongly correlated to success, and it's one of the most consistent findings in statistical psychology.

However in today's world, where you have an abundance of technology, infrastructure, and free access to unlimited knowledge, you don't have to be a genius to become a millionaire. Anyone of average intelligence and decent work ethic can reach this milestone.

If you have high IQ, it means that your car has a powerful engine.
You can take that car and win the race, or you can use it to wrap the nearest tree and die.

So the power of the engine matters, but how you drive it will determine the outcome of your life.
Wisdom beats the hell out of intelligence.
IQ is also much a product of discipline and hard work. Very few percentage of the people who score high in standardized test are “naturals”.
 

monnffffiiiiiii

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IQ is strongly correlated to success, and it's one of the most consistent findings in statistical psychology.

However in today's world, where you have an abundance of technology, infrastructure, and free access to unlimited knowledge, you don't have to be a genius to become a millionaire. Anyone of average intelligence and decent work ethic can reach this milestone.

If you have high IQ, it means that your car has a powerful engine.
You can take that car and win the race, or you can use it to wrap the nearest tree and die.

So the power of the engine matters, but how you drive it will determine the outcome of your life.
Wisdom beats the hell out of intelligence.
I disagree.

To take the car analogy, IQ is the steering wheel taking you on the right road. Your strength and "hustle" is the engine.

Smart people take the shortest road because they can. Dumb people (on the long road) can reach the same destination by compensating with effort, but it's highly unlikely.

You also need IQ to beat up your competitors. You have no chance faced with someone smarter than you are.
 

Kevin88660

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I disagree.

To take the car analogy, IQ is the steering wheel taking you on the right road. Your strength and "hustle" is the engine.

Smart people take the shortest road because they can. Dumb people (on the long road) can reach the same destination by compensating with effort, but it's highly unlikely.

You also need IQ to beat up your competitors. You have no chance faced with someone smarter than you are.
The problem is IQ is that IQ measurement comes from IQ test, which is a performance test.

You can put a fat person on a weighing scale, it will show that he is fat, you cannot measure “genes that cause him to be fat”.

Are there genetic reasons for performance disparity. Sure there are. To what extend are performance disparity caused by genetics? Probably very little.
 
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PureA

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The problem is IQ is that IQ measurement comes from IQ test, which is a performance test.

You can put a fat person on a weighing scale, it will show that he is fat, you cannot measure “genes that cause him to be fat”.

Are there genetic reasons for performance disparity. Sure there are. To what extend are performance disparity caused by genetics? Probably very little.

I grew up on self dev, blank slate, "anyone can do anything if they try hard enough" thinking.

It's a nice belief that probably serves us even if it isn't true (playing victim isn't going to help anyone).

Once you get deeper into the data its astonishing that genetics control everything way more than we'd like to think.

A simple example to illustrate the point...

You take twins and separate them at birth, one goes to a poor family in a rural area, one goes to a rich family in a thriving city.

They get brought up on different foods, different politics, different class of people around them, different belief and life lessons instilled.

They don't know of each other for 35 years... and then they meet.

They are both lawyers, like the same foods, have the same political beliefs, same hobbies.

Crazy. How? Why? Genetics.

That being said, the mistake here is to use this as an excuse and self limit your potential.

You can outwork any deficits. Volume cures all. Action cures all.

Everyone gets dealt a unique hand that is full of pros and cons.

Play yours the best you can, what option do you have?
 

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IQ is strongly correlated to success, and it's one of the most consistent findings in statistical psychology.

However in today's world, where you have an abundance of technology, infrastructure, and free access to unlimited knowledge, you don't have to be a genius to become a millionaire. Anyone of average intelligence and decent work ethic can reach this milestone.

If you have high IQ, it means that your car has a powerful engine.
You can take that car and win the race, or you can use it to wrap the nearest tree and die.

So the power of the engine matters, but how you drive it will determine the outcome of your life.
Wisdom beats the hell out of intelligence.

I disagree.

To take the car analogy, IQ is the steering wheel taking you on the right road. Your strength and "hustle" is the engine.

Smart people take the shortest road because they can. Dumb people (on the long road) can reach the same destination by compensating with effort, but it's highly unlikely.

You also need IQ to beat up your competitors. You have no chance faced with someone smarter than you are.
Too many people will go take an IQ test and then use the results to assign themselves a lot in life. Some will get an average result and use that as an excuse not to strive for more. “I’m doing better than average already, I’m ahead of my curve.” Or, on the flip side, “I have a super high genius IQ, I should be doing better.” One mindset produces better results than the other.

Do you guys even know what your IQ is?

I have actually never taken an IQ test. All the abstract patterns are obnoxious. I’m happy with my ability to learn and acquire new knowledge. It’s like opening yourself up for mindset cancer when you’re feeling fine. No thanks.

Of course, foundational intelligence matters, but the vast majority of people don’t even come close to meeting their true potential.
 
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Andy Black

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Too many people will go take an IQ test and then use the results to assign themselves a lot in life. Some will get an average result and use that as an excuse not to strive for more. “I’m doing better than average already, I’m ahead of my curve.” Or, on the flip side, “I have a super high genius IQ, I should be doing better.” One mindset produces better results than the other.

Do you guys even know what your IQ is?

I have actually never taken an IQ test. All the abstract patterns are obnoxious. I’m happy with my ability to learn and acquire new knowledge.

Of course, foundational intelligence matters, but the vast majority of people don’t even come close to meeting their true potential.
I don't know my IQ. I've never taken a test. Can I invoice anyone if I take the test?
 
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monnffffiiiiiii

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Too many people will go take an IQ test and then use the results to assign themselves a lot in life. Some will get an average result and use that as an excuse not to strive for more. “I’m doing better than average already, I’m ahead of my curve.” Or, on the flip side, “I have a super high genius IQ, I should be doing better.” One mindset produces better results than the other.

Do you guys even know what your IQ is?

I have actually never taken an IQ test. All the abstract patterns are obnoxious. I’m happy with my ability to learn and acquire new knowledge. It’s like testing yourself for mindset cancer when you’re feeling fine. No thanks.

Of course, foundational intelligence matters, but the vast majority of people don’t even come close to meeting their true potential.
I dont know what my IQ is but I have a vague idea.

I also know that most successful people that I know became successful simply because their intelligence gave them a monstrous edge over anyone else.

I actually have come to believe that very few people succeed just because they work hard - they always have another edge.

And IQ, like physical attributes (height, voice, being hot or ugly) are things that play in your chances of success and no one speaks about them.

The whole "YoU caN acHieVe aNythIng You WanT" is kinda toxic as it gives people false hope.

You can probably do a whole lot more than you think, yes.

But no, sorry, unless you're smart, tall, and have a high pain tolerance, you can't achieve anything you want.
 

Xeon

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The IQ tests I've seen tend to be math-based or use math as their foundation, and also sequences that sort of thing. Couldn't answer a single one. IQ is not directly co-related to abstract/critical thinking. The latter is very important.
 

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The IQ test are math oriented so quite hard.

What is heavier?
One pound of iron or one pound of feather?

I have no idea as we have everything in kilograms here in Poland haha
They’re the same weight. A pound is a unit of weight not size.

It the same question when you ask it in kilograms.
 

MitchC

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You just have to be smart enough

Maybe your iq will only allow you a certain level of potential

But I doubt anyone of us have reached that potential

The amount of people I know who are richer than me and also I think dumber than me tells me my iq is not the problem

This meme is also very relevant
66C4E662-0DA5-4A59-8AC3-121CB2D96998.jpeg

Lol I meant to find business ones where the middle guy is overthinking it and the other 2 are just saying provide value or sell things or whatever but I found this one instead
8517D90B-ACDC-4B79-80A7-B867A704A2FE.jpeg
 

Kak

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Does anyone remember that study conducted on “honors students?”

If I recall correctly, they just randomly selected half of a class of kids and told them and their teachers that they were honors. Then they told the other half they were “average.”

The “honors” students gained confidence, the teachers gained confidence in them, and consequently expected better performance out of them.

The performance differences were very large. Mindset and self confidence are a tremendous factor when it comes to intelligence measured in academic performance.

I wonder how many people take an IQ test after filtering themselves and their capability through their own learned helplessness. It really wouldn’t surprise me if an IQ test, to a large extent, just confirms the limitations they already set for themselves.

There’s no question that some people are just smarter and more mentally capable. I just think an IQ test is an imperfect experiment.
 
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G

Guest-5ty5s4

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Does anyone remember that study conducted on “honors students?”

If I recall correctly, they just randomly selected half of a class of kids and told them and their teachers that they were honors. Then they told the other half they were “average.”

The “honors” students gained confidence, the teachers gained confidence in them, and consequently expected better performance out of them.

The performance differences were very large. Mindset and self confidence are a tremendous factor when it comes to intelligence measured in academic performance.

I wonder how many people take an IQ test after filtering themselves and their capability through their own learned helplessness. It really wouldn’t surprise me if an IQ test, to a large extent, just confirms the limitations they already set for themselves.

There’s no question that some people are just smarter and more mentally capable. I just think an IQ test is an imperfect experiment.
The self-fulfilling prophecy thing is huge for one's psychology. It's like the placebo effect. You are right.
Both are true.
 

Kevin88660

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I dont know what my IQ is but I have a vague idea.

I also know that most successful people that I know became successful simply because their intelligence gave them a monstrous edge over anyone else.

I actually have come to believe that very few people succeed just because they work hard - they always have another edge.

And IQ, like physical attributes (height, voice, being hot or ugly) are things that play in your chances of success and no one speaks about them.

The whole "YoU caN acHieVe aNythIng You WanT" is kinda toxic as it gives people false hope.

You can probably do a whole lot more than you think, yes.

But no, sorry, unless you're smart, tall, and have a high pain tolerance, you can't achieve anything you want.
IQ test measures performance. A test measures performance.

If you want to increase your IQ just do more practice questions like those in an IQ test.

If you want to have better chess performance just do more chess puzzles.

If you want to do well in math test just do more math practice questions.

If you want to run faster you should start running everyday.

If you truly believe that having high IQ (which literally means scoring highly in an IQ test) is important in life you should be literally practicing IQ test questions.

IQ test result is not a physical attribute. It is very much like your current speed for long distance running. Most people who are not gifted will never reach a level to be able to represent their country, even if they train hard. But that is not stopping them for running faster through repeated practice.
 
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heavy_industry

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Do you guys even know what your IQ is?
I don't think I want to know the result.

Say you get a bad score.
What are you going to do? Give up on life because "statistics"?

Or you get a good score.
Now what? @Andy Black where do I send that invoice?


There are plenty of geniuses that are homeless drug addicts, and plenty of people of average intelligence that live well above the mediocrity line.

The IQ is the power of the engine. Big engine = car goes faster.

But you have to pick a destination and start F*cking driving.

So focus on the driving, because that's the only thing you can control.


PS: If you have kids, never praise them for being smart. Praise them for their hard work and effort.
 
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Kevin88660

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The whole obsession with IQ and personality imo are snake oils sold by the psychology industry to HR departments and the business communities to invest in millions of dollar designing psychometric test and personality test for the specific job roles.
 

monnffffiiiiiii

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IQ test measures performance. A test measures performance.

If you want to increase your IQ just do more practice questions like those in an IQ test.

If you want to have better chess performance just do more chess puzzles.

If you want to do well in math test just do more math practice questions.

If you want to run faster you should start running everyday.

If you truly believe that having high IQ (which literally means scoring highly in an IQ test) is important in life you should be literally practicing IQ test questions.

IQ test result is not a physical attribute. It is very much like your current speed for long distance running. Most people who are not gifted will never reach a level to be able to represent their country, even if they train hard. But that is not stopping them for running faster through repeated practice.
IQ is the capacity to understand complex problems and the speed you take to do so.

Einstein got a higher IQ so he could understand complex physics problems.

Jeff Bezos got a higher IQ so he understood before anyone else how important the Internet would be (and btw, he was in a school for "gifted students" aka geniuses).

Musk got a higher IQ so he could code games at 11 years old, something 11 years-old dont normally do.

Etc.
That's what IQ is.

95% of rich and successful people in the west could not have become so without high IQ.

It's the only variable that correlates with self-made wealth.

Not saying these people didnt work hard. What I am saying is that high IQ was necessary, (but not sufficient).
 

heavy_industry

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It's the only variable that correlates with self-made wealth.
The other two are the personality trait "conscientiousness" (working hard and diligently), followed by emotional stability.
 
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Kevin88660

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IQ is the capacity to understand complex problems and the speed you take to do so.

Einstein got a higher IQ so he could understand complex physics problems.

Jeff Bezos got a higher IQ so he understood before anyone else how important the Internet would be (and btw, he was in a school for "gifted students" aka geniuses).

Musk got a higher IQ so he could code games at 11 years old, something 11 years-old dont normally do.

Etc.
That's what IQ is.

95% of rich and successful people in the west could not have become so without high IQ.

It's the only variable that correlates with self-made wealth.

Not saying these people didnt work hard. What I am saying is that high IQ was necessary, (but not sufficient).
The capacity is developed through education.

That’s why rich parents spend huge effort to buy into locations to send kids into good schools.

In good schools the kids are under pressure to only have time to sleep 4-5 hours per day. They are overwhelmed with curriculum workload, test and other projects.

In $hit schools your kids mix with smokers and gangsters.
 

Kak

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I understand the correlation, but in entrepreneurship specifically, having enough IQ to be a dynamic leader releases you from the limitation of the IQ. It’s no longer about YOU and YOUR abilities. And when considering scalability, it shouldn’t be. It’s about the abilities of your company.

@monnffffiiiiiii it’s not even close to “the only variable.” That’s nonsense. What about locus of control? I bet that’s an even stronger correlation.
 

monnffffiiiiiii

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I understand the correlation, but in entrepreneurship specifically, having enough IQ to be a dynamic leader releases you from the limitation of the IQ.
I hear you, you can outsource intelligence, we can agree on that.

The capacity is developed through education.

Yeah, and the earth is flat.

The other two are the personality trait "conscientiousness" (working hard and diligently), followed by emotional stability.

It helps, but it's in no way necessary.
 
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Kevin88660

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Yeah, and the earth is flat.
By education I mean going through a vigorous process of sleeping less than six hours per day for more than 10 years in childhood, full of lessons, homework, test and projects.

That is how you increase your mental capacity in understanding complex stuff. You build the foundation first through repeatedly deliberate overloading.
 
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monnffffiiiiiii

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Can someone point me to the first post about IQ? I can't find it, was it weeks ago?

I'd like to extract the posts to its own thread.
There it is: HOT! - CHAT - Random Chat, Thoughts, Posts, and/or Rants Thread
By education I mean going through a vigorous process of sleeping less than six hours per day for more than 10 years in childhood, full of lessons, homework, test and projects.

That is how you increase your mental capacity in understanding complex stuff. You build the foundation first through repeatedly deliberate overloading.

Yes, agreed 100%. And the more mental capacities you have, the more likely you are to be a successful entrepreneur.
 

Kevin88660

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There it is: HOT! - CHAT - Random Chat, Thoughts, Posts, and/or Rants Thread


Yes, agreed 100%. And the more mental capacities you have, the more likely you are to be a successful entrepreneur.
Its one factor. But entrepreneurship or business require all rounded skills. That’s why it is hard.

There are far less successful entrepreneurs than math and physics PHD.

The perfect fit for mental capacity is still academically related roles.
 
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Andy Black

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Some say EQ is more important than IQ...
 

Kevin88660

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Some say EQ is more important than IQ...
Probably AQ.

Adversity is guaranteed to happen in life.

The strongest entrepreneurs and business people tend to have quite high AQ.

I was reading the biography of a billionaire and he actually failed 50-60 projects in a span of 15 years. Of course in wikipedia you can only see 3-4 big projects he did earlier that failed.
 
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