Learning Copywriting for Marketing

[harlansjobs]

I am interested in learning Copywriting for the purpose of learning how to create great sales pages and emails. Can anyone recommend a good copywriting book for beginners? I have seen recommendations for 1. Magnetic Advertising, 2. anything by Claude Hopkins, 3. the classic Lazy Man's Way to Riches by Joe Karbo, 4. Russel Brunson Dotcom Secrets and Expert Secrets and finally 5. the Boron Letters by Gary Halbert.

or is there something better?
Thank you for your time.

 

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[BizyDad]

I am interested in learning Copywriting for the purpose of learning how to create great sales pages and emails. Can anyone recommend a good copywriting book for beginners? I have seen recommendations for 1. Magnetic Advertising, 2. anything by Claude Hopkins, 3. the classic Lazy Man's Way to Riches by Joe Karbo, 4. Russel Brunson Dotcom Secrets and Expert Secrets and finally 5. the Boron Letters by Gary Halbert.

or is there something better?
Thank you for your time.

Better? No. Different writers speak to different people, so it's tough to say what the best book actually is. It's the one that works best for you I suppose.

Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter (this one was my first read, great book for beginners), Cashvertising, and Words that Sell also are quality reads.

 

[Lex DeVille]

My #1 recommendation for beginners is Ca$hvertising.

The Ultimate Sales Letter is also good as @BizyDad recommended. In my opinion, it should come after Ca$hvertising because it's more narrow in direction (and more of a boot in the a$$ to get started).

Most of the other books listed are better once you get started and gain traction.

Gary Halbert can be skipped completely unless you want to get sucked down a time-wasting rabbit hole where would-be copywriters go to die.

Best place to learn marketing is by working with clients. What works today isn't taught in old books. Clients will tell you all about what is and is not working for them. For instance, none of the books above will tell you that sales emails have higher open rates with an emoji in the headline.

 

[Raoul Duke]

 

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[Andy Black]

I am interested in learning Copywriting for the purpose of learning how to create great sales pages and emails.

Can I just pick up on the word you used twice in your stated goal?

If your goal is “learning” then you’ll likely end up going down rabbit-holes, and likely not make money.

We make money helping people, and getting paid. We don’t get paid to learn.

Remember this gem:

“We can’t invoice for input.”
(Blaise Brosnan)


Can you reframe your goal so it’s about helping people to do XYZ or ABC (and not be so you focused)?


Listen to the first radio interview in my signature (the “How to quickly get started in business” link).

I mention that my goal wasn’t to “learn how to build websites”. I made it my goal to help someone, then looked at everyone I knew for someone to help. I ended up “falling” into Google Ads because that was what I personally could help people get more sales with.

Because my goal was to help my friend I wasn’t married to learning anything in particular, or even married to any particular way of helping him.

 

[Andy Black]

Gary Halbert can be skipped completely unless you want to get sucked down a time-wasting rabbit hole where would-be copywriters go to die.

Spat my tea. Lol.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

I am interested in learning Copywriting for the purpose of learning how to create great sales pages and emails. Can anyone recommend a good copywriting book for beginners? I have seen recommendations for 1. Magnetic Advertising, 2. anything by Claude Hopkins, 3. the classic Lazy Man's Way to Riches by Joe Karbo, 4. Russel Brunson Dotcom Secrets and Expert Secrets and finally 5. the Boron Letters by Gary Halbert.

or is there something better?
Thank you for your time.

My favorite copywriting book of all time is Kick-a$$ Copywriting Secrets of a Marketing Rebel by John Carlton.

https://marketingrebel.com/kick-a$$-copywriting-secrets-of-a-marketing-rebel/

However, if your goal is to be a pro, you need to read as much as you can, and don't stop just there. Also analyze and copy sales letters and ads, break them down, figure out what works, and gain an instinct for copy that sells.

It's what I've done to print money for my clients.

After Kick a$$, Breakthrough Advertising is my number 2.

My #1 recommendation for beginners is Ca$hvertising.

This is a good primer & summary for many other books, it's what I used to get back into copywriting after a break. Great book, and if you don't want to be a pro copywriter, imo, this is all you need.

Gary Halbert can be skipped completely unless you want to get sucked down a time-wasting rabbit hole where would-be copywriters go to die.

Respectfully, I 100% disagree. Here are two of Gary Halbert's best pieces, which CANNOT be skipped:

The Gary Halbert Letter

(You won't find the process above in ANY other copywriting book, I still use it to this day)

The Gary Halbert Letter

(how to write bullets, and how important bullets are for copy)

+ ofc the Boron Letters, and imo there are some other great newsletters to check out too.

Best place to learn marketing is by working with clients. What works today isn't taught in old books. Clients will tell you all about what is and is not working for them. For instance, none of the books above will tell you that sales emails have higher open rates with an emoji in the headline.

^^ Very useful for a beginner.

You will not learn to use emojis in email subject lines, HOWEVER, you learn the principles. No client ever taught me to use emojis in subject lines, but I thought... nobody uses emojis, what's a better way to draw attention? Because I knew that one of the purposes of the headline (or subject line) is to grab attention.

I also came up with a novel email sequence that delivers fantastic results, after having re-read Halbert's advice in the Boron Letters about personalizing, so that the emails do NOT look like they're automated, and they actually look organic.

So you can't come up with these new things if you don't understand the principles. Stuff like personalization increases response, or standing out makes sure you get read, etc.

Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter (this one was my first read, great book for beginners)

That's one of those that I just about finished but haven't completely haha. I loved it though, but went over many of the points I had already read in other books.

Another good, thick, overall intro for copywriters which I've been reading recently after ignoring it for years is Bob Bly's Copywriter Handbook. Imo, that's probably the most thorough place to start.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

“We can invoice for input.”
(Blaise Brosnan)

Wait, we CAN invoice for input? I love that!!

 

[harlansjobs]

Can I just pick up on the word you used twice in your stated goal?

If your goal is “learning” then you’ll likely end up going down rabbit-holes, and likely not make money.

We make money helping people, and getting paid. We don’t get paid to learn.

Remember this gem:

“We can invoice for input.”
(Blaise Brosnan)


Can you reframe your goal so it’s about helping people to do XYZ or ABC (and not be so you focused)?


Listen to the first radio interview in my signature (the “How to quickly get started in business” link).

I mention that my goal wasn’t to “learn how to build websites”. I made it my goal to help someone, then looked at everyone I knew for someone to help. I ended up “falling” into Google Ads because that was what I personally could help people get more sales with.

Because my goal was to help my friend I wasn’t married to learning anything in particular, or even married to any particular way of helping him.

______________________________________
Some of this is what Russell Brunson is talking about in DotCom Secrets. He talks about sales letters with an Attractive Character - himself- put into a series of Soap Opera Style letters to attract them, and once they sign up send them Seinfeld-like emails just storytelling where "nothing" happens, like in Seinfeld.

It isn't until the second book Expert Secrets the Underground playbook that he gets into finding their needs, polls, questions, and other things to find their needs.

His books are heavily focused on funnels of course and sometimes I feel he is a little too advanced and best left for people who have a better background in copywriting and marketing.

 

[ZF Lee]

Get market research right.

Daniel Throssell’s Market Detective course helped give me a steady process to research markets and ‘pain words’…from client questionnaires, to forum mining…to even some surveys.

 

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[Andy Black]

Wait, we CAN invoice for input? I love that!!

Damn phone. Corrected.

 

[Simon Angel]

If you wanna be a copywriter, just start.

I'm a copywriter that has branched into managing email marketing for 7-8 figure businesses. I had my start exactly one year ago working for an Indian dropshipping store owner who paid me $5/h to write product descriptions.

Today, one year later, I've made tens of millions for my clients and written copy for every advertising medium you can think of.

0 books, 0 courses, 0 plagiarism. Just a do-or-die mentality, an ability to analyze data, and a solid understanding of human psychology that allows me to really connect with each client's audience.

I'm not saying this to spite you or the others in this thread but rather to point out that you don't necessarily need books or courses to become a copywriter.

Also, I never wanted to become a copywriter. It just happened. I was in debt and on the lookout for opportunities, and people acknowledged that I have a good wield of the English language + an entertaining writing style, and I got "in".

After that, I quickly climbed to where I am at now - which is helping out the big boys.

So yeah, just start. You'll either get it right the first time or you'll get it wrong. You win in both cases because you'll see what works or what doesn't work and optimize for next time.

 

[valuepoint1]

Like others have said easiest way to read a few books, then get started immediately. That "pressure" you feel when you work with clients is the best way to learn. Until you get tested and have to write for $$$, you won't know what you know and what you're missing.

 

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[Jpeveryday]

John carlton. Made fran kern who he is today.

 

[harlansjobs]

My favorite copywriting book of all time is Kick-a$$ Copywriting Secrets of a Marketing Rebel by John Carlton.

https://marketingrebel.com/kick-a$$-copywriting-secrets-of-a-marketing-rebel/

However, if your goal is to be a pro, you need to read as much as you can, and don't stop just there. Also analyze and copy sales letters and ads, break them down, figure out what works, and gain an instinct for copy that sells.

It's what I've done to print money for my clients.

After Kick a$$, Breakthrough Advertising is my number 2.


This is a good primer & summary for many other books, it's what I used to get back into copywriting after a break. Great book, and if you don't want to be a pro copywriter, imo, this is all you need.


Respectfully, I 100% disagree. Here are two of Gary Halbert's best pieces, which CANNOT be skipped:

The Gary Halbert Letter

(You won't find the process above in ANY other copywriting book, I still use it to this day)

The Gary Halbert Letter

(how to write bullets, and how important bullets are for copy)

+ ofc the Boron Letters, and imo there are some other great newsletters to check out too.


^^ Very useful for a beginner.

You will not learn to use emojis in email subject lines, HOWEVER, you learn the principles. No client ever taught me to use emojis in subject lines, but I thought... nobody uses emojis, what's a better way to draw attention? Because I knew that one of the purposes of the headline (or subject line) is to grab attention.

I also came up with a novel email sequence that delivers fantastic results, after having re-read Halbert's advice in the Boron Letters about personalizing, so that the emails do NOT look like they're automated, and they actually look organic.

So you can't come up with these new things if you don't understand the principles. Stuff like personalization increases response, or standing out makes sure you get read, etc.


That's one of those that I just about finished but haven't completely haha. I loved it though, but went over many of the points I had already read in other books.

Another good, thick, overall intro for copywriters which I've been reading recently after ignoring it for years is Bob Bly's Copywriter Handbook. Imo, that's probably the most thorough place to start.

I have been going through the Boron letters. I am at chapter 8. I was about to stop reading it as it seems so dated. I will find the personalization chapter and see what I can do with it.

Thank you for that.

 

[RobH]

Maybe this has been addressed already, but how do you get clients when just starting? Do you create fake ads and sales letters? Do you point out weaknesses in existing marketing material?

 

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[harlansjobs]

Maybe this has been addressed already, but how do you get clients when just starting? Do you create fake ads and sales letters? Do you point out weaknesses in existing marketing material?

you are posting in the middle of a thread about copywriting, so you need to start your own thread.

 

[RobH]

you are posting in the middle of a thread about copywriting, so you need to start your own thread.

Sorry, I thought getting clients was a part of copywriting.

 

[BizyDad]

Maybe this has been addressed already, but how do you get clients when just starting? Do you create fake ads and sales letters? Do you point out weaknesses in existing marketing material?

you are posting in the middle of a thread about copywriting, so you need to start your own thread.

Please don't start your own thread for this.

Many threads over the years discuss this. Read those first, and if you have any more questions, post there.

 

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[harlansjobs]

I went through the Boron letters.
They were basically a stream of consciousness about prison life. What was not about prison, was interesting. He talked about using Direct Mail and while everyone uses email today, would his system work for people who use direct mail and send you an offer from a purchased list? Possibly or possibly not.

I took notes of what he talked about in the copywriting and ad creation section and basically, while the method of sending your offer to people may change, copywriting does not. Of the section where I started taking notes-letters 10 to 25 I have about 3 pages of notes.

The best take-away I got from there?
AIDA.
Attention
Interest
Desire
Action.

This is something that I have seen before but not in the way he explains it.
That along with his recite ads out loud and then rewrite them exactly over and over to see why they work the way they do, is something I want to do in more depth, unfortunately so many ads today are internet only.
That makes it difficult as people can make the ads as long as they want, whereas when you paid for a magazine ad, it usually had to be short and sweet.
That applies today in an era of extra short attention spans.

There were a few other things that got my attention so I have also made notes of those.

Now to study these methods and see if any of them can help me land freelancing jobs to get started.

 

[Manu dee]

If you wanna be a copywriter, just start.

I'm a copywriter that has branched into managing email marketing for 7-8 figure businesses. I had my start exactly one year ago working for an Indian dropshipping store owner who paid me $5/h to write product descriptions.

Today, one year later, I've made tens of millions for my clients and written copy for every advertising medium you can think of.

0 books, 0 courses, 0 plagiarism. Just a do-or-die mentality, an ability to analyze data, and a solid understanding of human psychology that allows me to really connect with each client's audience.

I'm not saying this to spite you or the others in this thread but rather to point out that you don't necessarily need books or courses to become a copywriter.

Also, I never wanted to become a copywriter. It just happened. I was in debt and on the lookout for opportunities, and people acknowledged that I have a good wield of the English language + an entertaining writing style, and I got "in".

After that, I quickly climbed to where I am at now - which is helping out the big boys.

So yeah, just start. You'll either get it right the first time or you'll get it wrong. You win in both cases because you'll see what works or what doesn't work and optimize for next time.

If you wanna be a copywriter, just start.

I'm a copywriter that has branched into managing email marketing for 7-8 figure businesses. I had my start exactly one year ago working for an Indian dropshipping store owner who paid me $5/h to write product descriptions.

Today, one year later, I've made tens of millions for my clients and written copy for every advertising medium you can think of.

0 books, 0 courses, 0 plagiarism. Just a do-or-die mentality, an ability to analyze data, and a solid understanding of human psychology that allows me to really connect with each client's audience.

I'm not saying this to spite you or the others in this thread but rather to point out that you don't necessarily need books or courses to become a copywriter.

Also, I never wanted to become a copywriter. It just happened. I was in debt and on the lookout for opportunities, and people acknowledged that I have a good wield of the English language + an entertaining writing style, and I got "in".

After that, I quickly climbed to where I am at now - which is helping out the big boys.

So yeah, just start. You'll either get it right the first time or you'll get it wrong. You win in both cases because you'll see what works or what doesn't work and optimize for next time.

Simon angel..so you never read any books or took any courses on copywriting and yet you became a paid copywriter..thats inspiring!
I always thought you had to read a ton of books, do courses and be mentored by some copy guru to write decent copy..thank you for sharing your story.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Simon angel..so you never read any books or took any courses on copywriting and yet you became a paid copywriter..thats inspiring!
I always thought you had to read a ton of books, do courses and be mentored by some copy guru to write decent copy..thank you for sharing your story.

That's what every guru wants you to think.

If you believe that you have to read a lot of copywriting books to become a copywriter, then the idea of paying a guru a lot of money for their course to summarize those books (a shortcut) becomes much more appealing to you. Naturally, it makes sense that copywriting gurus would tell you that you have to read all of the copywriting books.

I can count on one hand the books about copywriting I've read, and none of them was the key to success with copywriting. The key to copywriting success isn't found in books. It's found within yourself.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

That's what every guru wants you to think.

If you believe that you have to read a lot of copywriting books to become a copywriter, then the idea of paying a guru a lot of money for their course to summarize those books (a shortcut) becomes much more appealing to you. Naturally, it makes sense that copywriting gurus would tell you that you have to read all of the copywriting books.

I can count on one hand the books about copywriting I've read, and none of them was the key to success with copywriting. The key to copywriting success isn't found in books. It's found within yourself.

I'm a big believer in books, but I also agree with this, and this is perhaps a very important point. The key to success in whatever you do, IMO, is high self-esteem. Meaning that you love yourself, trust yourself, and feel that you're enough, that you've got what it takes. If you don't have self-esteem, then you will sabotage yourself, regardless of how much knowledge you have.

If you look at literarily 99% of the self-development literature out there, it's aimed as a band-aid to people who lack self-esteem. For example: have a positive mental attitude, think big, think positively, etc., these are all side effects of high self-esteem. When you love yourself, trust yourself and feel that you're enough, then you naturally have a positive mental attitude, think big, think positively, and all the rest of it.

But when you teach these same factors as stand alone activities to people who lack self-esteem, they don't work, because they're not happening naturally. They have to be forced, and being forced requires willpower which can't be maintained indefinitely. And then there's the other HUGE factor to success which cannot be created except through high self-esteem, namely creativity.

 

[Andreas]

I also wanted to learn basic copywriting, not for freelancing, but for sending e-mails and other stuff like product descriptions, good video and post titles, etc. There is a sea of information and many copywriters have their own opinion on the subject.

I actually wanted to hire someone to just write a damn good template for cold e-mails, but it seems that the best coopywriters out there would charge an arm and a leg for their services, and would probably ignore me. Hence, I am also interested to know where I can start off with e-mail copywriting.

Someone mentioned John Carlton, but the URL doesn't work anymore.

 

[Manu dee]

I also wanted to learn basic copywriting, not for freelancing, but for sending e-mails and other stuff like product descriptions, good video and post titles, etc. There is a sea of information and many copywriters have their own opinion on the subject.

I actually wanted to hire someone to just write a damn good template for cold e-mails, but it seems that the best coopywriters out there would charge an arm and a leg for their services, and would probably ignore me. Hence, I am also interested to know where I can start off with e-mail copywriting.

Someone mentioned John Carlton, but the URL doesn't work anymore.

You should checkout Alex Cattoni on YouTube..been watching her channel and she seems legit.

 

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[ZF Lee]

Sorry, I thought getting clients was a part of copywriting.

Writing the sales pitches or proposals (like cold emails, Upwork proposals) is copywriting itself...you have to sell your services to clients and compete against other copywriters for the project.

I also wanted to learn basic copywriting, not for freelancing, but for sending e-mails and other stuff like product descriptions, good video and post titles, etc. There is a sea of information and many copywriters have their own opinion on the subject.

I actually wanted to hire someone to just write a damn good template for cold e-mails, but it seems that the best coopywriters out there would charge an arm and a leg for their services, and would probably ignore me. Hence, I am also interested to know where I can start off with e-mail copywriting.

Someone mentioned John Carlton, but the URL doesn't work anymore.

For cold emails, I only hear all about Jon Buchan so far.
He's more about entertaining folks to stand out, and even uses stuff like pictures of cute animals to strike a chord with prospects.

Unorthodox and daring sales & marketing

I was desperate for sales. I got blind drunk and wrote the most absurd cold email I could muster. To my amazement, it worked. I booked meetings with RedBull, Hewlett Packard, Symantec and countless other global brands.

www.charm-offensive.co.uk

 

[Andreas]

For cold emails, I only hear all about Jon Buchan so far.
He's more about entertaining folks to stand out, and even uses stuff like pictures of cute animals to strike a chord with prospects.

I actually bought one of his courses and I think it's not going to be helpful to someone like me who is just starting out. I could be very wrong on this one, but in order to be funny or at least stand out like he does, you have to already be a good marketer in the first place.

He was working at an agency so he knows how to write more quirky e-mails without looking like a spammer.

If I try to emulate his style, I will get labeled as a Nigerian prince type of spammer.

 

[ZF Lee]

I actually bought one of his courses and I think it's not going to be helpful to someone like me who is just starting out. I could be very wrong on this one, but in order to be funny or at least stand out like he does, you have to already be a good marketer in the first place.

He was working at an agency so he knows how to write more quirky e-mails without looking like a spammer.

If I try to emulate his style, I will get labeled as a Nigerian prince type of spammer.

Yes, you have to understand what kind of humour your prospect appreciates.
And if that humour is in line with your products/brand identity.

For example, I definitely would not be cracking jokes if I was selling services for coffins. Or even pregnant mothers' supplements (actual product I wrote FB ads copy for before...hated the experience, but went OK)

And ultimately your product and message must be something that will help your prospect...has credibility (direct and indirect)...these are what Nigerian scammers mess up at especially the latter.

Get market research right.

Daniel Throssell’s Market Detective course helped give me a steady process to research markets and ‘pain words’…from client questionnaires, to forum mining…to even some surveys.

Which is why I recommend this. Market research.
It will tell you what you need to know-- provided you have the patience to sit down and mine.

There are others I have read like Finding the Right Message by Havice, but that course fit some missing puzzle pieces together.

I've heard the RMBC course by Stefan Georgi was a rockstar course for some time that included research elements and the unique mechanism...but here's the watered-down version of it:

Learn Better Copywriting To Make Money as a Freelancer

Stefan Georgi is the inventor of the RMBC method — Research, Mechanism, Brief, and Copy. Want to learn more about RMBC? Click here to read.

www.stefanpaulgeorgi.com

My concerns with this is that Stefan relies rather heavily on forums for research...but if your product is a tad too new to your marketplace, you will need to transition to some surveys or even use some competing products for hands-on feedback. But for a good number of saturated markets like health and education...that usually won't get that far.

 

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[Andreas]

Which is why I recommend this. Market research.
It will tell you what you need to know-- provided you have the patience to sit down and mine.

There are others I have read like Finding the Right Message by Havice, but that course fit some missing puzzle pieces together.

I've heard the RMBC course by Stefan Georgi was a rockstar course for some time that included research elements and the unique mechanism...but here's the watered-down version of it:

Learn Better Copywriting To Make Money as a Freelancer

Stefan Georgi is the inventor of the RMBC method — Research, Mechanism, Brief, and Copy. Want to learn more about RMBC? Click here to read.

www.stefanpaulgeorgi.com

My concerns with this is that Stefan relies rather heavily on forums for research...but if your product is a tad too new to your marketplace, you will need to transition to some surveys or even use some competing products for hands-on feedback. But for a good number of saturated markets like health and education...that usually won't get that far.

I have done this part. I know what groups of people want or would at least be curious about my product. Problem is, that they had to learn mostly though pharmaceuticals/nutraceuticals, doctors and other specialists. I want to be able to sell to distributors like the above, but I don't know how to make a proposition and catch the attention of these people without sounding too 'salesey'.

How do I get the attention of a busy executive who is scrolling through his e-mail list and persuade him to look into my product? Of course, the functions of the product will fulfil whatever needs or wants the other company's customers is catering to.

I find it so difficult to find a source that gives advice on the B2B side. Everyone is focused on B2C and even then it's not about acquisition, but more about increasing the value that you get from each customer. Great if you have a business that is doing well, but not good if you are a nobody, even when the product is rare, desirable and high quality.

This is why I want someone who is more focused on communicating with other businesses and learning from that person.

 

[Andy Black]

Nigerian scammers mess up

I heard the Nigerian Prince scam is deliberately implausible to get the gullible to raise their hand.