Companies are entities, and hide behind human resources. They have no soul.

[eliquid]

Not sure who wrote this on this forum ( I tried searching, couldn't match anything ), but it's not mine and I am not claiming to have came up with it.

However, when I seen it I had to print it out and look at it every few weeks to remind myself of the struggle.


Companies are entities, and hide behind human resources. They have no soul.

They don't care that :

• • you sacrifice for them
  • you did what you were supposed to
  • you did what you were told to do

They don't care that :

• • it's Christmas time
  • You have a wife and kids to feed
  • you need the income

They don't care :

• • how long you have worked there
  • what you did 6 months ago to help the company
  • what ideas you have to improve the company
  • about your degree

Does your wife think that employment equals job security? Does your husband think that your income is stable? Do YOU think that if you work hard, that will somehow make you un-fireable?

My hope is this is the start of a great new chapter for you.


Just posting it here again, it's a great reminder for some of us.

.
.

 

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[B V Marlon]

it's a great reminder for some of us.

Ain't it just. I'm doing a spot of contracting for the company I used to work for and I'm seeing all that kind of stuff every day. It strengthens my resolve even further to make something of my own, to make a successful company that actually gives a shit about its people.

 

[Envision]

Depends on the company considering most of us run them and wouldnt characterize ourselves within that.

Hell, the company I work for is awesome. Seriously, sometimes I wonder if I would leave because the owners are super chill, i get paid really well, and they treat me like family.

I think what this is referring to is big corporations that only care about the bottom line which while there are some I would say thats not everyone. Careful which box you put yourself in.

 

[eliquid]

I think what this is referring to is big corporations that only care about the bottom line which while there are some I would say thats not everyone. Careful which box you put yourself in.

While I get what you're saying overall, this isn't referring to big corporations.

As someone that had worked for startups with less than 10 people, small companies with less than 50 employees, medium sized agencies and large corporate companies... this extends the WHOLE branch. Not just the big corps.

This statement for sure applies in my life almost every company I've been involved in.

 

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[OldFaithful]

Companies are entities, and hide behind human resources.

I appreciate this thread, and I understand the sentiment.

I wonder sometimes...do companies really exist at all. Or do they exist only on paper? I've seen buildings, products, people, people performing services and people making decisions. Are companies actually non-entities and people are hiding their bad behavior behind a paper company?

 

[SquatchMan]

Hell, the company I work for is awesome. Seriously, sometimes I wonder if I would leave because the owners are super chill, i get paid really well, and they treat me like family.

Good businesses treat you well when the business is making money. None treat you well when they are losing money.

Employers don't owe you a damn thing besides a paycheck for the work you perform for them. They only hire you so they can make money... not so you can make money.

 

[Envision]

Good businesses treat you well when the business is making money. None treat you well when they are losing money.

Employers don't owe you a damn thing besides a paycheck for the work you perform for them. They only hire you so they can make money... not so you can make money.

You dont own a business very long if you're not making money. Most people call that a hobby or a bankruptcy.

 

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[G-Man]

Good businesses treat you well when the business is making money. None treat you well when they are losing money.

You still get a paycheck if the company you work for had an unprofitable quarter, which is better "treatment" than you'll ever get out in the wild.

Employers don't owe you a damn thing besides a paycheck for the work you perform for them. They only hire you so they can make money... not so you can make money.

Your employer is a customer. They pay you because they believe the marginal value added for them is greater than the marginal cost... like every customer ever, since the beginning of time.

The underlying economics are the same, but.....

Does your wife think that employment equals job security? Does your husband think that your income is stable? Do YOU think that if you work hard, that will somehow make you un-fireable?

On a long enough timeline, you take better control of the downside and create more potential for explosive upside by not having a "job". This is the secret sauce of the whole thing IMHO.

 

[eliquid]

You dont own a business very long if you're not making money. Most people call that a hobby or a bankruptcy.

Making money or not, most will not treat you well for some reason or another.

I've been with companies that have treated me like crap that I've helped:

• Take from $400k annual revenues to $38m in 2 years and get rated the #1 network in their industry and hit Inc 500.
  
• Grow from 30 days into bankruptcy, to profitable and able to make their payroll in less than 60 days and triple their business in 1 year
• Take on the job that 10 people now do for only one of those job's salary while also directly helping them go from $6m annual to over $25m in 3 years
• Scale their agency from 1 client spending $10k a year in advertising, to over 30 clients spending over $5m a year in advertising all by myself in less than 2 years

I could go on, but I'm gonna stop there.

Just because someone is chill and pays you well ( I've been there, done that multiple times ) and treats you like family ( most of the companies I've worked for have less than 30 employees and would be considered tight knit at the time ) doesn't mean shit.

Wait until new owners or investors come in, the company goes through a downward turn for a year, growth stagnates, you have a disagreement with one of the bosses on the wrong subject, one of the owners thinks it's time to head into a new direction, or one of another million variables like you all hiring too many people or the wrong HR and sales people...

I'm positive you will come back to this thread if any of the above happens. I hope it doesn't though.

Make sure you are putting back into savings.

 

[Envision]

Damn dont wanna grow bitter like you man. To each his own!

 

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[eliquid]

Damn dont wanna grow bitter like you man. To each his own!

Not bitter. I'm just realistic and I am glad for the first hand experience. It's a huge difference...

I think we see things differently, which is cool. I like that.

I'm 38, you're 22. Our experiences will be different based on not only that, but that I am not working for a company where I am making someone else rich and content with what they provide me right now in this time/place/moment.

I'm not sure where you are in your walk of life, or what life has thrown at you but many people go full time self employment and owning their own business for the reasons I stated above. It's not always about someone wanting to be rich or some other fake dream though like traveling full time.

Some good advice I got when I was younger was, to talk to people 10 years older than you. Make sure they are also 10 years ahead of where you want to be. I'm pretty sure you will hear some of the same things I am typing right now out of those people mouths if those people are business owners or self employed.

But it's not about being bitter. It's about reality

.

 

[Johnson504]

Seriously thank you for sharing this! my husband's company is restructuring and we are going to lose a significant amount of his pay. That's why I joined here. I want to start my own business so that I can help him get out of that job because it's miserable. He's up before the sun every day and work 12+ hours 5 days a week, sometimes 6. He's away from his daughter and the company doesn't care. Again, thanks for sharing this as I needed this. This is why I am starting my journey!

 

[c_morris]

Seriously thank you for sharing this! my husband's company is restructuring and we are going to lose a significant amount of his pay. That's why I joined here. I want to start my own business so that I can help him get out of that job because it's miserable. He's up before the sun every day and work 12+ hours 5 days a week, sometimes 6. He's away from his daughter and the company doesn't care. Again, thanks for sharing this as I needed this. This is why I am starting my journey!

I can sympathize with your husband. I'm basically in the same boat. My pay hasn't been cut but the company I work for restructures every 3 or 4 years and we are due for a big one. I've seen a lot of good people get dismissed.

On the bright side, your head is in the right place and it looks like you've found your WHY?

Sent from my Galaxy S7 using Tapatalk

 

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[lifeNchoices]

I"m in my 30's and I'll add to this

One company that I worked for considered us owners and we had stock in the company vs matching 401K(I know this violates TMF , but it was years ago). Pretty much everything from the OP was spot on. When the money was coming in everything was great. When the money got tight, it was layoff's, furlough's and other chaos. Come to find out the owner was sleep at the wheel spending up profit while not watching out for the company. He let some internal employees steal business, and he even undermined other leadership at the company to loose further business. One day his dad(YES HIS DAD) called a meeting to let us know the company was shutting down. All the hard work put in over the years and stock value right out the door. I haven't worked for anyone since then and dont' plan on it. But hey its why most of us are here.

 

[MidwestLandlord]

A view from the employer's side:

I spent yesterday reducing operating hours at a location. Had to terminate half my employee's, the rest got reduced hours that worked out to a 1/3rd pay cut. (second location in 2 weeks that I've had to do this)

Not a decision I took lightly. I haven't hired in this location for almost 5 years, because I had really good people working for me. And that's in retail with it's 60% annual turnover.

But that's how the relationship works, no? They expect a paycheck, I expect to make money. I am losing large amounts of money there, so...something had to give. Their paycheck's are my biggest expense.

One guy is 76 years old, I just gave him a huge pay cut, and he has no savings (he let me know exactly how badly I was hurting his finances)

Don't be that guy.

So to be realistic here, they could count on me for a paycheck for only as long as I could afford to pay them.

That's just the way the world works.

 

[eliquid]

A view from the employer's side:

I spent yesterday reducing operating hours at a location. Had to terminate half my employee's, the rest got reduced hours that worked out to a 1/3rd pay cut. (second location in 2 weeks that I've had to do this)

Not a decision I took lightly. I haven't hired in this location for almost 5 years, because I had really good people working for me. And that's in retail with it's 60% annual turnover.

But that's how the relationship works, no? They expect a paycheck, I expect to make money. I am losing large amounts of money there, so...something had to give. Their paycheck's are my biggest expense.

One guy is 76 years old, I just gave him a huge pay cut, and he has no savings (he let me know exactly how badly I was hurting his finances)

Don't be that guy.

So to be realistic here, they could count on me for a paycheck for only as long as I could afford to pay them.

That's just the way the world works.

Im glad you shared this.

I've been somewhat in the same boat before, but with VA's and remote staff who were technically not an employee. However, they depended on me for a chunk of their living.

It's horrible to do, at least for me it was.

I just can't bring myself to hire someone unless I know I can pay them for 12+ months safely. I know that's a distorted view/plan, but I can't bring myself to hire someone full time knowing it might only last 3.5 months.

Im sure at 5 years, you never planned this. No one could.

But it does show that if you are working a job, you are counting on someone else to direct your future in a way.

.

 

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[Austin Ogre]

You dont own a business very long if you're not making money. Most people call that a hobby or a bankruptcy.

True, but I have had employers at non-profitable businesses treat me well. No business has ever treated me poorly for very long (profitable or otherwise). @eliquid is not wrong, when ownership changes all your hard work will likely count for nothing. The Slow Lane is a tool to learn from (some of us learn and do well in it), but if you want to be Fast Lane you'll eventually need to take the leap and apply those lessons (or uh... perhaps I'll have an entirely different opinion next week after I actually RTFB).

And @MidwestLandlord I feel your pain. It sucks to be there as an employer. <insert meaningless platitude here> I hope in the future you or someone else can provide opportunities for those who were good employees; in the long term you were there for them and that means something.

 

[Andy Black]

Just saw the front of the local papers yesterday. The local HP plant is shedding 500 jobs.

FIVE. HUNDRED.

Many of them will get other jobs. Some will take the leap and go it alone. Some are going to really struggle.

There's way more than 500 people affected. Think of their immediate families, their extended families (worrying), and the local economy.

All of them are in for a stressful few months or years.

 

[David Young]

Companies aren't inherently bad. The problem as I see it, certainly superficially, is that the risk reward balance is often out of kilter. In good times the rewards go to the owner and the senior management and in the bad times the lower grade staff are cut. However, as I am writing this it is is difficult to begrudge a business owner for acting this. The employee has to take some responsibility for there value to ensure they don't get cut, or if they do, they can move on to something else more quickly. The bigger problem as it see it many companies still have a old fashioned approach to productivity and value which dehumanises the work experience: longer hours, reduced pay, limit costs.... with little focus on working smarter and more creatively.

 

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[ZF Lee]

This is why I am rather troubled with the human resources issue.
@MidwestLandlord is right about paychecks being a big cash eater, especially when they start doing politics and greed-wars.

I'm not going to find a business partner. I am more likely to find a greedy money chaser than a value-giver warrior. However, an employee might be considered a low-level partner, and in a liquidation event of a business, they might have a claim to the spoils. It's troublesome to have an asset or leverage that bitches or complains and throws your business into a mess.

Making money or not, most will not treat you well for some reason or another.

I've been with companies that have treated me like crap that I've helped:

• Take from $400k annual revenues to $38m in 2 years and get rated the #1 network in their industry and hit Inc 500.
  
• Grow from 30 days into bankruptcy, to profitable and able to make their payroll in less than 60 days and triple their business in 1 year
• Take on the job that 10 people now do for only one of those job's salary while also directly helping them go from $6m annual to over $25m in 3 years
• Scale their agency from 1 client spending $10k a year in advertising, to over 30 clients spending over $5m a year in advertising all by myself in less than 2 years

I could go on, but I'm gonna stop there.

Just because someone is chill and pays you well ( I've been there, done that multiple times ) and treats you like family ( most of the companies I've worked for have less than 30 employees and would be considered tight knit at the time ) doesn't mean shit.

Wait until new owners or investors come in, the company goes through a downward turn for a year, growth stagnates, you have a disagreement with one of the bosses on the wrong subject, one of the owners thinks it's time to head into a new direction, or one of another million variables like you all hiring too many people or the wrong HR and sales people...

I'm positive you will come back to this thread if any of the above happens. I hope it doesn't though.

Make sure you are putting back into savings.

These are real dangerous shit going on in the business world. I wonder if there are ways to avoid such things which pop up when I need human resources.

I really want to give my workers good treatment, and even reward them for their hard work when I scale up. But alas, if such virtues even mean nothing in the face of adversity...

This is why it is hard for business people to produce jobs. We want to, we can, but no one thinks of helping out and giving value as much as they can....

I hope MJ does address the human resources issue much more detailed in unscripted . It's difficult to choose to treat workers as either variables in an equation, when they are just people like you and me, or as fellow humans who need help, when they can destroy you like monsters.

 

[Vigilante]

Not sure who wrote this on this forum ( I tried searching, couldn't match anything ), but it's not mine and I am not claiming to have came up with it.

However, when I seen it I had to print it out and look at it every few weeks to remind myself of the struggle.


Companies are entities, and hide behind human resources. They have no soul.

They don't care that :

• • you sacrifice for them
  • you did what you were supposed to
  • you did what you were told to do

They don't care that :

• • it's Christmas time
  • You have a wife and kids to feed
  • you need the income

They don't care :

• • how long you have worked there
  • what you did 6 months ago to help the company
  • what ideas you have to improve the company
  • about your degree

Does your wife think that employment equals job security? Does your husband think that your income is stable? Do YOU think that if you work hard, that will somehow make you un-fireable?

My hope is this is the start of a great new chapter for you.


Just posting it here again, it's a great reminder for some of us.

.
.

The reason you couldn't find it in a search is because it is INSIDERS CONTENT, not indexed. LOL

If you are ever looking for something that you can't find, jump into the INSIDERS section and then search, as the INSIDERS content is searchable by INSIDERS but only from within inside.

That's OK. It is a good teaser for the higher level content that exists on the inside.

For those of you with INSIDERS access, here's the thread it came from:

Introduction - My new boss just extended my probationary period!

 

[Vigilante]

Depends on the company considering most of us run them and wouldnt characterize ourselves within that.

Hell, the company I work for is awesome. Seriously, sometimes I wonder if I would leave because the owners are super chill, i get paid really well, and they treat me like family.

I think what this is referring to is big corporations that only care about the bottom line which while there are some I would say thats not everyone. Careful which box you put yourself in.

You are dispensable

 

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[Vigilante]

Damn dont wanna grow bitter like you man. To each his own!

It's not bitterness. It's reality.

 

[eliquid]

The reason you couldn't find it in a search is because it is INSIDERS CONTENT, not indexed. LOL

If you are ever looking for something that you can't find, jump into the INSIDERS section and then search, as the INSIDERS content is searchable by INSIDERS but only from within inside.

That's OK. It is a good teaser for the higher level content that exists on the inside.

For those of you with INSIDERS access, here's the thread it came from:

Introduction - My new boss just extended my probationary period!

Crap I didnt even know.

Its been so long now when I look at that thread ( yeah a year + is long to me ). I printed it off back then and then over time just forgot where I even got it. I even questioned when I did a search if it was even FLF since I couldn't find it.

Sorry, I didn't try to on purpose expose INSIDERS content. Just forgot where it came from.

 

[G-Man]

It's not bitterness. It's reality.

Very true, and like @MidwestLandlord pointed out above, you can only pay people for as long as it makes economic sense to pay them.

In 2014, I had to lay off an entire distribution center. It was not their fault. The company was horribly mismanaged. To be fair, I spent the weekend before beering myself into oblivion, but I don't regret the decision. If a person has to choose between your livelihood and theirs, they will of course choose theirs. It just is what it is. It's no different than a customer moving to another vendor that gives them a better deal.

 

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[Andy Black]

Btw, just replying to the title of this thread...

In my limited experience, when a company grows big enough to get a HR department, things change quite a lot for the worse.

HR work for the business, and are there to protect the business and make the most out of their Human Resources. Don't forget who's side they're on.

 

[GMSI7D]

Not sure who wrote this on this forum ( I tried searching, couldn't match anything ), but it's not mine and I am not claiming to have came up with it.

However, when I seen it I had to print it out and look at it every few weeks to remind myself of the struggle.


Companies are entities, and hide behind human resources. They have no soul.

They don't care that :

• • you sacrifice for them
  • you did what you were supposed to
  • you did what you were told to do

They don't care that :

• • it's Christmas time
  • You have a wife and kids to feed
  • you need the income

They don't care :

• • how long you have worked there
  • what you did 6 months ago to help the company
  • what ideas you have to improve the company
  • about your degree

Does your wife think that employment equals job security? Does your husband think that your income is stable? Do YOU think that if you work hard, that will somehow make you un-fireable?

My hope is this is the start of a great new chapter for you.


Just posting it here again, it's a great reminder for some of us.

.
.

thanks

in fact, i can't keep a job more than 6 months because i can't agree with stupid policies and way of working.

ahah.. so every time either i slam the door or i am kicked out of the building by the boss

freedom is above stupidity

 

[Johnson504]

I can sympathize with your husband. I'm basically in the same boat. My pay hasn't been cut but the company I work for restructures every 3 or 4 years and we are due for a big one. I've seen a lot of good people get dismissed.

On the bright side, your head is in the right place and it looks like you've found your WHY?

Sent from my Galaxy S7 using Tapatalk

Thanks! I have found my WHY and and while it stinks to have his pay cut, I know I can help make up the difference with a great business.

 

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[c_morris]

HR work for the business, and are there to protect the business and make the most out of their Human Resources. Don't forget who's side they're on.

So true. They go by the book for the most part in order to protect the company against wrongful dismissal and harassment lawsuits, but at the end of the day, the big boss will make the call and HR will abide.

Sent from my Galaxy S7 using Tapatalk

 

[Envision]

You are dispensable

Im not naive to the fact that im dispensable. When the owner gave me the position I have he sat me down and told me to my face that I'm replaceable.

On that same note he's mentored me and helped me build my company to the point where I dont have to work for him, or anyone for that matter any more. But I want to, because the things I learn and observe from within the company I work for directly benefit and increase the performance of what I do in my company.

Yeah the company might not care about what I do and I may be completely dispensable and F*ck it I might get fired or laid off one day. But it doesnt deter from the fact that the people that make up that company can teach you things that you couldnt learn on your own that can directly benefit your fastlane ventures.