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Black_Dragon43

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I don't see any evidence of that. What is my box, then? Something like a false awakening and I never really had that growth mindset? I'd argue taking the leap many times and constantly landing on your a$$ is a different situation than sticking to a fixed mindset which is discussed here.
Attacking a box for 2 decades without any progress ... I don't see that covered here.
I’d say that you’re doing something wrong then, and you’ve got to figure out what…

It’s quite straightforward… you’ve got a financial goal I suppose, and then you try all sorts of systems to get you there. The failure must be in not noticing what’s working (and doing more of it) and what’s not working (and doing less of it). I imagine that some things have had some positive results, it wasn’t all doom and gloom for the past 20 years.

I do agree to a certain extent that the mental game is BS in the sense that it’s all systems. If you’re always asking yourself what’s going right, what’s going wrong, what can you learn from it and how can you change things, and doing that continuously, you’ll naturally get better abd see better results… and the progression will be exponential. Slow at first, but faster over time.

One other thing: programming doesnt make money. Skills don’t make money. At least not serious money. What makes serious money is selling things. That’s what you need to do more of.
 
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Jerma

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Holy sh*t ... a big congrats to you! You have no idea, this excites me probably more than it does you. :blush:
Haha, thank you! :smile2:


Almost nobody consciously changes their values. It's old conditioning. (Which you COULD change anytime you wanted to) But when people have conflicting values they often end up in a really screwed up place internally. It causes the most internal pain.

Imagine someone whose most important thing is success but the most important thing for them to avoid is rejection. You can already guess what their life looks like and the challenges they might have.
That makes senses. I'll do the exercise. Thanks. I can see that leaving this to the subconscious could lead to a lot of "stuckness,", procrastination, self-sabotage. and guilt. I like your model, it's helpful.

It's a huge conversation but so many people (especially on this forum) tell someone "you just don't want it bad enough" if they don't follow through but the truth is they have conflicts internally. "I want to make the sale but I never want to get rejected" or "I want success but I never want to be judged" or "I want love but I never want to feel loss."
Yes, I agree. There's a lot of moving parts here. I suffer a lot from those inner conflicts myself. IMO that's actually the hard part of entrepreneurship. At the same time, those are chances for me to grow, so that's good (I guess).
 
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The Graceland

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Clarity, focus and balance are three themes I use to dance in, out and around these lovely boxes. Great thread btw, I’m enjoying glimpses into all the different perspectives ya’ll bring to this topic.
I love a challenge. I also love to sit on my a$$ and enjoy savoring the moment, for as long as I feel like, and oftentimes I enjoy savoring some pretty $hitty memories, feelings, and then binging on some random anime series in Amazon prime. I even used to binge on food, but thankfully I have been able to let that box fade to black.
That all said, currently I’m working on healing from sickness, and getting a place set up so I can work on projects that I would like to make me some money. Because I got bills to pay. Reality. Check!
When I was younger I decided to be an artist with a focus in photography. For a long time since I have struggled with a reticence to put my images out in public because of the rampant flood of images that already inhabit the public space. But I’ve come to realize that I have a unique view from my eyes and I’d like to share that view with others. I also have skills in painting and drawing and writing, all three I want to explore. At the moment I’m not working a job, and my credit card reflects both my lack of income and my exuberant spending habits. So. If I want to have a different outcome, some stuff has got to change.
To me the word mindset has a self explanatory aspect. The mind is set. End of discussion. In mythology there is a character that lives on the boundary of society, that character is called the trickster. When your mind is set, sometimes you got to trick it to do something different to get the result you want. There are many stories about all sorts of tricksters and their tricks, and sometimes the trickster gets tricked!
Hard work and plans can often carry you through most days, but occasionally tricking yourself can edge you into the Fastlane. My two cents
 

Andreas Thiel

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I’d say that you’re doing something wrong then, and you’ve got to figure out what…
I think to a huge degree there is a just-world hypothesis in play.

Probably the "anybody could change their beliefs and things would get better for them" is true for enough people that there is some value in it.
If your life has not gotten out of whack bad enough that it has become a twisted mess, then those small adjustments can remove road blocks.

In my reality once I start fixing things in one place everything comes apart in other areas of my life.

All the claims that it "is obvious what needs to be done, people just don't do it and it must be because of their beliefs" ... I think that is a leap. My observations say it is more likely that 20% of people are in a healthy place and 80% of the lives out there are critically out of whack.

When they start listing things that permit them from reaching some kind of normalcy the average person cries "listen to those baseless excuses". I think that is another bias ... where other peoples' problems are have less substance than your own.

It’s quite straightforward… you’ve got a financial goal I suppose, and then you try all sorts of systems to get you there. The failure must be in not noticing what’s working (and doing more of it) and what’s not working (and doing less of it). I imagine that some things have had some positive results, it wasn’t all doom and gloom for the past 20 years.
Besides financial goals a sense of urgency comes up in many other areas of my life. Within the financial / business goals there are conflicting observations and I can't make sense of anything anymore.
For me the "we know what we need to do but we don't do it" is a clear - I can't relate to that in the slightest. I can say yes to two things and have to say no to 10 others. Some of those 10 other things lead to the next crisis that destroys whatever I might have built at that point.

I am pretty sure once your life is a tangled mess like that the "fix your mindset" approach loses its power.
Other mental models ... maybe based around the debt you have amassed and coming up with a health metric in different areas of your life is the way to go then? I am not sure.

Thinking about that part of you post it became even clearer ... I can't explain where my problem lies.
I can say with confidence that I was not lazy. I have health issues, I have talent issues, the way my mind is wired makes it a painful fight to go from braindump to simplicity. And yes, I feel like the bottom line for all my private projects is: "doom and gloom". All the investments I have made just cost me and returned nothing. There were some brief moments of triumph, but they were all short lived and what I had achieved just melted away fast.

Not in my day job, though. I feel like this area of my life is where I invest 95% of my time and energy (I see no other way to stay afloat) ... and there I see one key change starting to pay dividends: going from two 5 year and 1 one year stints at small companies that sucked life out of me with nothing to show for it to an employer where I have been for roughly 2 years now where I feel like I get something out of it rather than just burning through my resources.

I do agree to a certain extent that the mental game is BS in the sense that it’s all systems. If you’re always asking yourself what’s going right, what’s going wrong, what can you learn from it and how can you change things, and doing that continuously, you’ll naturally get better abd see better results… and the progression will be exponential. Slow at first, but faster over time.
I see no evidence of that and yeah ... I know what people will say: I overanalyze and don't ever execute.
Yes, that is what it has to look like for an outsider. Like the usual action faking and excuses. Guess this is where this thread becomes difficult. I was hoping to provide a different perspecitve ... one from somebody who has really put in the work, reassessed all the moving parts in his life and failed to come up with actionable gameplans and still fails to see opportunities.
Exponential progress? If there ever is a snowball mechanic in play and things seem to be going okay then the sure thing is that the snowball melts away at the slightest hiccup. As long as you don't reach escape velocity gravity pulls you back to earth.

One other thing: programming doesnt make money. Skills don’t make money. At least not serious money. What makes serious money is selling things. That’s what you need to do more of.
I get that. And I have been at the point where I had believed that and decided to produce something to poke the market with many times now. I pay for 5 virtual servers. I have 40ish domains for what I though were reasonable projects at the time. Loved what I saw at Ramit Sethi's "I will teach you to be rich" and did an expensive course about information products (Zero To Launch). Same with Mark Rober's "Creative Engineering". Tried many things and ended up in dead ends.

Without fail at some point in the execution phase I realize what I have at that point belongs in the garbage or has become so complex that I will need 5 more years to finish the MVP.

Again, in that situation it is a) not clear to me what my ONE THING should be given the goal that I want to poke the market and b) other areas of my life where I have amassed other kinds of debt bomb anything that might be going right to shreds.
 
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Andy Black

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Ocean Man

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The Graceland

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Sometimes fate deals you a crap hand, but those are the cards you have to play. Not all of us on this forum will have the pleasure of being millionaires. I still think it’s better to make the effort than give up. But I also realize that making the effort is a risk and it’s up to each person to make up their own minds when to risk and when to walk away. Business is a gamble. The rewards can be amazing, and the risks can be daunting. My father told me today that he retired from being a lawyer because his memory was failing him and he realized that he could easily get sued all because his memory didn’t do what he needed it to do.
 
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Black_Dragon43

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I think to a huge degree there is a just-world hypothesis in play.
Far from me to think this, I know the world can be unjust and often is. All that I want to claim is that the world isn’t random. It’s a series of causes and their effects which create what we see around.
Probably the "anybody could change their beliefs and things would get better for them" is true for enough people that there is some value in it.
If your life has not gotten out of whack bad enough that it has become a twisted mess, then those small adjustments can remove road blocks.

In my reality once I start fixing things in one place everything comes apart in other areas of my life.
So it sounds like when you focus on one thing, then you no longer pay so much attention to the others, and they begin falling apart? Or do I have you wrong?
All the claims that it "is obvious what needs to be done, people just don't do it and it must be because of their beliefs" ... I think that is a leap. My observations say it is more likely that 20% of people are in a healthy place and 80% of the lives out there are critically out of whack.

When they start listing things that permit them from reaching some kind of normalcy the average person cries "listen to those baseless excuses". I think that is another bias ... where other peoples' problems are have less substance than your own.


Besides financial goals a sense of urgency comes up in many other areas of my life. Within the financial / business goals there are conflicting observations and I can't make sense of anything anymore.
For me the "we know what we need to do but we don't do it" is a clear - I can't relate to that in the slightest. I can say yes to two things and have to say no to 10 others. Some of those 10 other things lead to the next crisis that destroys whatever I might have built at that point.
So is there a way to perhaps progress on the business related stuff at a slower pace, while making sure the rest of your life doesn’t fall apart?
I am pretty sure once your life is a tangled mess like that the "fix your mindset" approach loses its power.
Other mental models ... maybe based around the debt you have amassed and coming up with a health metric in different areas of your life is the way to go then? I am not sure.

Thinking about that part of you post it became even clearer ... I can't explain where my problem lies.
I can say with confidence that I was not lazy. I have health issues, I have talent issues, the way my mind is wired makes it a painful fight to go from braindump to simplicity. And yes, I feel like the bottom line for all my private projects is: "doom and gloom". All the investments I have made just cost me and returned nothing. There were some brief moments of triumph, but they were all short lived and what I had achieved just melted away fast.

Not in my day job, though. I feel like this area of my life is where I invest 95% of my time and energy (I see no other way to stay afloat) ... and there I see one key change starting to pay dividends: going from two 5 year and 1 one year stints at small companies that sucked life out of me with nothing to show for it to an employer where I have been for roughly 2 years now where I feel like I get something out of it rather than just burning through my resources.


I see no evidence of that and yeah ... I know what people will say: I overanalyze and don't ever execute.
Yes, that is what it has to look like for an outsider. Like the usual action faking and excuses. Guess this is where this thread becomes difficult. I was hoping to provide a different perspecitve ... one from somebody who has really put in the work, reassessed all the moving parts in his life and failed to come up with actionable gameplans and still fails to see opportunities.
Exponential progress? If there ever is a snowball mechanic in play and things seem to be going okay then the sure thing is that the snowball melts away at the slightest hiccup. As long as you don't reach escape velocity gravity pulls you back to earth.


I get that. And I have been at the point where I had believed that and decided to produce something to poke the market with many times now. I pay for 5 virtual servers. I have 40ish domains for what I though were reasonable projects at the time. Loved what I saw at Ramit Sethi's "I will teach you to be rich" and did an expensive course about information products (Zero To Launch). Same with Mark Rober's "Creative Engineering". Tried many things and ended up in dead ends.

Without fail at some point in the execution phase I realize what I have at that point belongs in the garbage or has become so complex that I will need 5 more years to finish the MVP.

Again, in that situation it is a) not clear to me what my ONE THING should be given the goal that I want to poke the market and b) other areas of my life where I have amassed other kinds of debt bomb anything that might be going right to shreds.
So it sounds to me like you’ve tried this whole business of “poking the market” several times and it’s not working. What makes you think that this is the right approach and you should keep trying it?

Because things are not random, it’s clear that somewhere down the line you are putting into motion causes which don’t create any meaningful effects for you. So you’ve got to do something different.

If you’ve tried programming with little success for a long time, why not try something different? Same for any other field. Programming isn’t easy to get it to work. But if you insist on that, have you looked into Dane Maxwell and his book Start from Zero?
 

FinnVenture

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Threads pop up occasionally where members ask what’s the best skill to pick up if they want to build a profitable business.

Common answers are sales, leadership, web design, copywriting, digital marketing, etc.

I keep answering “the skill of building profitable businesses”.

It falls on deaf ears as it seems I’m being cheeky.

I’m not.

If you want to be good at XYX then get good at doing XYZ.

Elon Musk is good at building businesses.

Richard Branson is good at building businesses.

Gary V is good at building businesses.

What do you want to get good at? Get good at that.
That's a great way of looking at it, thanks for sharing! Thought provoking.
 

Andreas Thiel

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So it sounds like when you focus on one thing, then you no longer pay so much attention to the others, and they begin falling apart? Or do I have you wrong?
Focus is only a small aspect of it. When I talk about life having become a tangled mess this also includes that there are many issues that I need to tackle at some point. I have made the decidion to postpone everything to focus on breaking free of the day job because it destroys me. My eyes hurt. My energy is completely depleted after a workday. Back when my employers were horrible I was frustrated all the time.

So imbalance was the plan from the beginning, but imagine two decades without any successes ... at some point the fact that you still have no social life and the realization that the odds of ever having one keep getting worse because the challenge get harder - if it is not already impossible - that feeling drags you down and you question your decision to go all-in in this way.

Health is another area where I often feel like I have to make it my priority. The energy to not pretty much just pass out after work in bad phases would change things. But I also don't know what I could do. Doctors don't take energy issues seriously. When I talk about cyclical issues (sometimes headaches, often digestion, being aggitated, not being able to concentrate) they assume I am obsessed about something I read on the internet. Not much can be done about the light depressions that I routinely slide in and out of - at least that is my experience in my case with medication not making a difference. The times I have looked into the obvious thing to tweak - diet / nutrition - I could not sustain it for long and there were no strong signals that anything works better than something else. When things get bad, then shopping becomes too big of a deal and I just have lunch at work and nothing else.

So is there a way to perhaps progress on the business related stuff at a slower pace, while making sure the rest of your life doesn’t fall apart?
There is no way to progress even slower in the business related stuff. Progress is non-existent. But I know what you mean. The main problem is again, that I don't see the options how I could attack the issues in my life. I don't get how people function.
The best I could do was a phase of 1 year plus a few months, just before Corona when I woke up, started the day with piano practice and a home workout, went to work and when I got home I realized I didn't have the mental energy to work on a business but could do the groceries and eat enough to gain weight.
Wrote about issues I had with my legs after gaining 13kg (28 lbs) ... which was a 20% increase. But it is up to chance if I am that lucky - in a health related way. I had to be lucky for such a situation to arise where I can sustain a routine for that long. Usually such phases last weeks at best. I only know downward spiral mechanics. Successes leading to other successes ... that might be a fairy tale for all I know.

So it sounds to me like you’ve tried this whole business of “poking the market” several times and it’s not working. What makes you think that this is the right approach and you should keep trying it?
What else is there? The "So Good They Can't Ignore You" approach where you focus a skill and get to the cutting edge in some area so that nobody will be able to compete with you there? Yeah, though about that, too. But I can't sustain that and am - and I doubt this is a limiting belief - not smart enough to innovate in most of the fields that I had in my crosshairs. Tried to get into computational geometry and do something there. Read many books (I pay for a O'Reilly learning platform subscription so I can read most IT books out there legally and still buy many physical copies of Manning books) ... got obsessed with VR and looked for angles to create value there etc.

Also, I wouldn't say I tried. I feel like I can't try. Like when people talk about the batting average - I can't relate because I can't get into a situation where I have a bat and a person throws a ball (I think that is how that works ... right? :happy: ).

Because things are not random, it’s clear that somewhere down the line you are putting into motion causes which don’t create any meaningful effects for you. So you’ve got to do something different.
I get that, but again I feel that there is some just-world hypothesis thinking in there. Things are connected and intertwined ... and nothing guarantees that you just need to tweak something and get better results.

If you’ve tried programming with little success for a long time, why not try something different? Same for any other field. Programming isn’t easy to get it to work. But if you insist on that, have you looked into Dane Maxwell and his book Start from Zero?
Have not read Start from Zero ... opening a tab to look into it.

Earlier I wrote that programming comes as easy as breathing to me ... but I still fail to see opportunities and project ideas anywhere close to the sweet spot (doesn't take years but still provides value). High level services around Server Side Rendering might be the one. Thanks to my new employer I might be at a point where I know enough technologies to create something launchable through the full stack. With everything else that I have looked at, talent is a limiting factor.

After reading "The First 20 Hours" I wanted to go through my own skill aquisition journey that I could write about (to create information products).
Piano, Brawlhalla, yo-yo, Blender, drawing / painting, engineering etc. ...

Only with yo-yo and piano I saw reasonable progress. Piano really got to me because thanks to "Fundamentals Of Piano Practice" I made progress that I could only dream of when I had a teacher. Even managed to keep practising one piece for min. 30 minutes each day over more than half a year (maybe almost a year). I could play the piece at some point with only 2 to 3 mistakes average ... but the performance itself was slightly too robotic.
Attempting to fix that was going to be tricky because my sound "visualization" skills suck. I walk to my computer, listen to a performance and when I was back at the piano I couldn't replay the part in my mind. Was going to attack that as another skill by having a tablet directly at the piano ... but then something killed my routine momentum again and when I tried to get back into pracising, most of what I had memorized was severely fragile - even the robotic playing skills.
If that is what learning a piece is like for me, then the price tag to commit to it is just too much.
And writing about skill acquisition stops being an option as well, because all I could write is that it is hard and I can't figure things out.

With engineering: Bought a 3D printer and I could get a few prints mileage but then the extruder put a stop to my progress by coating the nozzle with filament on the outside. Not sure yet how that even works. Ordered upgrade parts yesterday ... but what I have seen is that getting into 3D printing is tricky as hell. Settings that work one time don't work the next time and without reproducability you are left with hundreds of hours of experimentation to even get to the point where you can work on something meaningful.
3D printing would only be a step towards other projects. In many cases I want to fill a shopping cart with things I need for the project I have in mind and the parts just don't seem to exist. Might be a business opportunity ...
 
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Black_Dragon43

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Focus is only a small aspect of it. When I talk about life having become a tangled mess this also includes that there are many issues that I need to tackle at some point. I have made the decidion to postpone everything to focus on breaking free of the day job because it destroys me. My eyes hurt. My energy is completely depleted after a workday. Back when my employers were horrible I was frustrated all the time.

So imbalance was the plan from the beginning, but imagine two decades without any successes ... at some point the fact that you still have no social life and the realization that the odds of ever having one keep getting worse because the challenge get harder - if it is not already impossible - that feeling drags you down and you question your decision to go all-in in this way.

Health is another area where I often feel like I have to make it my priority. The energy to not pretty much just pass out after work in bad phases would change things. But I also don't know what I could do. Doctors don't take energy issues seriously. When I talk about cyclical issues (sometimes headaches, often digestion, being aggitated, not being able to concentrate) they assume I am obsessed about something I read on the internet. Not much can be done about the light depressions that I routinely slide in and out of - at least that is my experience in my case with medication not making a difference. The times I have looked into the obvious thing to tweak - diet / nutrition - I could not sustain it for long and there were no strong signals that anything works better than something else. When things get bad, then shopping becomes too big of a deal and I just have lunch at work and nothing else.


There is no way to progress even slower in the business related stuff. Progress is non-existent. But I know what you mean. The main problem is again, that I don't see the options how I could attack the issues in my life. I don't get how people function.
The best I could do was a phase of 1 year plus a few months, just before Corona when I woke up, started the day with piano practice and a home workout, went to work and when I got home I realized I didn't have the mental energy to work on a business but could do the groceries and eat enough to gain weight.
Wrote about issues I had with my legs after gaining 13kg (28 lbs) ... which was 20% increase. But it is up to chance if I am that lucky - in a health related way. I had to be lucky for such a situation to arise where I can sustain a routine for that long. Usually such phases last weeks at best.


What else is there? The "So Good They Can't Ignore You" approach where you focus a skill and get to the cutting edge in some area so that nobody will be able to compete with you there? Yeah, though about that, too. But I can't sustain that and am - and I doubt this is a limiting belief - not smart enough to innovate in most of the fields that I had in my crosshairs. Tried to get into computational geometry and do something there. Read many books (I pay for a O'Reilly learning platform subscription so I can read most IT books out there legally and still buy many physical copies of Manning books) ... got obsessed with VR and looked for angles to create value there etc.

Also, I wouldn't say I tried. I feel like I can't try. Like when people talk about the batting average I can't get into a situation where I have a bat and a person throws a ball.


I get that, but again I feel that there is some just-world hypothesis thinking in there. Things are connected and intertwined ... and nothing guarantees that you just need to tweak something and get better results.


Have not read Start from Zero ... opening a tab to look into it.

Earlier I wrote that programming comes as easy as breathing to me ... but I still fail to see opportunities and project ideas anywhere close to the sweet spot (doesn't take years but still provides value). High level services around Server Side Rendering might be the one. Thanks to my new employer I might be at a point where I know enough technologies to create something launchable through the full stack. With everything else that I have looked at, talent is a limiting factor.

After reading "The First 20 Hours" I wanted to go through my own skill aquisition journey that I could write about (to create information products).
Piano, Brawlhalla, yo-yo, Blender, drawing / painting, engineering etc. ...

Only with yo-yo and piano I saw reasonable progress. Piano really got to me because thanks to "Fundamentals Of Piano Practice" I made progress that I could only dream of when I had a teacher. Even managed to keep practising one piece for min. 30 minutes each day over more than half a year (maybe almost a year). I could play the piece at some point with only 2 to 3 mistakes average ... but the performance itself was slightly too robotic.
Attempting to fix that was going to be tricky because my sound "visualization" skills suck. I walk to my computer, listen to a performance and when I was back at the piano I couldn't replay the part in my mind. Was going to attack that as another skill by having a tablet directly at the piano ... but then something killed my routine momentum again and when I tried to get back into pracising, most of what I had memorized was severely fragile - even the robotic playing skills.
If that is what learning a piece is like for me, then the price tag to commit to it is just too much.
And writing about skill acquisition stops being an option as well, because all I could write is that it is hard and I can't figure things out.

With engineering: Bought a 3D printer and I could get a few prints mileage but then the extruder put a stop to my progress by coating the nozzle with filament on the outside. Not sure yet how that even works. Ordered upgrade parts yesterday ... but what I have seen is that getting into 3D printing is tricky as hell. Settings that work one time don't work the next time and without reproducability you are left with hundreds of hours of experimentation to even get to the point where you can work on something meaningful.
3D printing would only be a step towards other projects. In many cases I want to fill a shopping cart with things I need for the project I have in mind and the parts just don't seem to exist. Might be a business opportunity ...
What I’m seeing from everything you wrote is that you’re quite a smart guy, but you feel very frustrated. You’ve tried a lot of things, but don’t see why things aren’t working out and there is no progress. That seems to be killing you inside.

I suggest to start by noticing this negative thinking. Try to be more conscious and catch yourself in the act of thinkin those thoughts. Because the truth is, whether they’re true or not, these thoughts aren’t helping you. You need to try to think constructively to figure out what is going on.

I do encourage you to look into Dane Maxwell. He bootstraps SaaS businesses with little to no money and scales them to millions. You’re clearly a solid programmer, even if not a genius. Your job is proof of that, plus, of course, the wide variety of interests that you have.

What you’re missing really is sales skills.

And by that I don’t just mean convincing people to buy. I mean being able to figure out what people want and hence would be willing to pay for.

You are approching this whole entrepreneurship thing a bit a$$ backwards if you ask me. Basically you’re approaching it like an engineer. I understand that approach, being an engineer myself. You first try to find something to build, and then sell it.

I suggest the opposite… sell first, then build. This is also Dane’s approach. You’ve probably been avoiding your social life in the promise of making it big. I’ve done the same for some years. There is an advantage to that… but also a disadvantage. Because human relationships are very very important in business. And try as you might, it’s not really possible to build strong business relationships that don’t involve some level of friendship. Now, having said that, it needs to be balanced. Avoid friendship with bums and timewasters, and cultivate controlled friendships in business - meaning they don’t take you all your time.

You need to start going after a target market and speaking to them before you code anything. Before you try to implement ANY idea that you have. Not only will this help you refine the idea, but you can presell people on it, and even get paid to develop it.

It doesn’t have to be complicated. Solve a small problem. This is one of Dane’s startups: Real Estate Transaction Management & Coordinator Software - Paperless Pipeline

After 10 years or so, they do $2m in revenue, and Dane hasn’t been working in it for years, he has a CEO running it.

You’re thinking way too big from the get-go, trying to go after big problems. You don’t have the capital to solve such problems. Identify small problems, nuisances that people are happy to pay to get rid of, and then solve that. Do it at scale.
 

tomzestatlu

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This is interesting discussion. I can understand both sides opposing each other. There were moments, where I didn´t see any bright side around my life and I was too exhaused to try to break the box. And I still struggle. And I think, that everybody on this forum or every stranger on the street, also sometimes struggles.
All the books and "proven manuals" can give you a hint which way to go, but that doesn´t mean people, who wrote them are perfect and live perfect life - nobody does.

I would say Andreas´s current problem isn´t that he´s putting himself into box, but rather some kind of imbalance in brain (that might be even chemical). There´s no easy explanation and no easy solution, as everything is too complex.

But I have noticed you mentioned your social life and relationships, which seem to be your big pain. And social life is one of the main pillars of life. There are more of them (let´s say for example finance or work generally). And if one person is failling in more areas, he get´s into dangerous downward spiral, which is difficult to escape. It´s different, when person A is unhappy at professional life, but has supportive environment of his family and friends; and when person B is unahappy at work and is also thirsty for deep connections, which he lacks.

I can imagine this is huge problem for the whole IT community. Usually you can say someone works in IT on first sight. This lifestyle impacts both mental and physical part of person. On PUA forums I noticed, that IT people tend to be kind of autistic and handle social situations like working with a machine. And that´s not the way to go, when interacting with people.

Luckily physical and psychical sides impact each other. Ultimate solution for the most of the problems in men´s life is having good levels of testosterone. Without it, your brain will be forever stuck at that weird place you are writing about. All the good coming begings with having enough of T in your blood. At the beginning, it would be good to get your T levels checked, because your occupation and age most likely lowered it.

At this moment, the best you can do for yourself is to hit the gym. No excuses. No time-frames, this is life-long commitment. The best investment in your life. It will help you to get small wins, be more confident and it will hype your brain. You will be more attractive for both men (not in sexual meaning) and women. And remember, not the muscles, but that magic T impacting your brain is the main prize.
Other things you can change in one day and can have good impact on your life is to fix your posture, get decent clothes and have some fun in your life.

I would suggest reading Jordan Peterson. His first premise is, that the life actually really is deep suffering. But even such suffering can have meaning and you can make it better, so it´s actually bearable.

Both bad and good things happening in life are exponential. It´s important to get small wins.

EDIT: I´ve just realized that in Germany, one of the days around current date is actually the shortest in a year. Don´t fotget to supplement enough of Vitamin D! The psychical struggle without sunlight is real.
________________________________________________________

I love this thread, I am the perfect example of someone, who puts himself into boxes. If there was someone, who tried to show me the box and possibility of breaking it, I would argue and fight him/her to prove, that I will be forever stuck there, because that´s just how it is. What a stupid attitude.
There are few I am really struggling with right now, I will give myself a time and write them down next time.
 

Andreas Thiel

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It doesn’t have to be complicated. Solve a small problem. This is one of Dane’s startups: Real Estate Transaction Management & Coordinator Software - Paperless Pipeline

After 10 years or so, they do $2m in revenue, and Dane hasn’t been working in it for years, he has a CEO running it.
Progress is slow ... another aspirin day. I think I have reached a point in the book where the mindset aspect become interesting.
His take on how beliefs and identity relate to each other might be where one of my main problems lies.

Sounds weird at first, but I think my current identity would be "I am a drowing person and need to see improvements soon or i'll die". And my beliefs, which I think are okayish, don't fix that hidden sense of identity.

What he suggests to shift your sense of identity is
Cultivate the muscle of taking action through resistance.
This might just be spot on is something where my feelings agree 100% but I am not sure if that is misleading.
I can't seem to find a way to get that going in my life. My day job serves as hypnosis that creates "be a robot in your comfort area" momentum and after work I get anxious trying to find a way to snap out of it and there is a strong sense that there is too little time for that.
Even spookier is the following sentence when he tries to elaborate:
It'll feel like you are drowning above water, but eventually you'll be swimming.
Getting kinda meta here :inpain:

Still reading, will probably write more about my conclusions in my new progress thread.

At this moment, the best you can do for yourself is to hit the gym. No excuses. No time-frames, this is life-long commitment. The best investment in your life. It will help you to get small wins, be more confident and it will hype your brain. You will be more attractive for both men (not in sexual meaning) and women. And remember, not the muscles, but that magic T impacting your brain is the main prize.
Other things you can change in one day and can have good impact on your life is to fix your posture, get decent clothes and have some fun in your life.
Thanks. I am glad to see that some people can see where I am coming from and see that I am not just trying to rock the boat and rain on the parade.

I get that this is an investment with insane returns.

But day job plus to routine to sustain that ... I'd bury the hope of ever making substantial progress in my social life or businesses. The (productive) hours in the day are just too limited. Even sustaining the routine required for just the diet aspect of going to the gym would only work in good phases.
I hate the overall schedule that this decision would result in.
Home training ... yes that worked for a while but I am running out of space in my apartment. My toes hit the equipment (bench press) a few times too hard and too often that I moved it into a corner behind something else and since then the hurdle of preparing for a workout has increased so much that it doesn't fit into my morning routine anymore.
Maybe with some creative thinking I could get that going again.
 
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The Graceland

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I’ve been dealing with depression and low energy most of my life, and two books I’ve found to be helpful are “You are your own gym” by Mark Lauren and “The Miracle Morning” by Hal Elrod. Funnily enough Hal Elrod’s book is where I first heard about MJ and the Fastlane. Small world.
The you are your own gym takes the approach that any space has the potential to be a gym. He has a bunch of old school exercises that he gives really detailed descriptions on how to approach doing these exercises. In the gym these exercises become mechanical, but with some creativity in approach you can get a lot more out of your exercise experience. Also you can set up your own program and do it at your own pace. So there is a lot of flexibility with a small time and money commitment. He also has recommendations on diet and a supplemental book for recipes if you want to go there.
The other book “miracle morning” is a way to get your head on for the day. It’s a bit cheesy, but the premise is something that I think anyone can play with to mold to their own needs. Also there is a huge community so you could get some different ideas and approaches to play around with. The whole idea with the miracle morning is to start your morning focused on you, your needs, and your desires for what you want to do with your life. You can spend as little as 12 minutes doing the “miracle morning”. Not a lot of time commitment there either.
Both of these books have been published a while ago so you can pick them up for pretty cheap, might even find them online.
 

tomzestatlu

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Nov 29, 2021
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Thanks. I am glad to see that some people can see where I am coming from and see that I am not just trying to rock the boat and rain on the parade.

I get that this is an investment with insane returns.

But day job plus to routine to sustain that ... I'd bury the hope of ever making substantial progress in my social life or businesses. The (productive) hours in the day are just too limited. Even sustaining the routine required for just the diet aspect of going to the gym would only work in good phases.
I hate the overall schedule that this decision would result in.
Home training ... yes that worked for a while but I am running out of space in my apartment. My toes hit the equipment (bench press) a few times too hard and too often that I moved it into a corner behind something else and since then the hurdle of preparing for a workout has increased so much that it doesn't fit into my morning routine anymore.
Maybe with some creative thinking I could get that going again.
I don´t like some cheap hype motivation, but I like to say "it´s either you want something or you don´t want it enough". Definitely there are ways to find time to do it... somehow. I am not a bussines owner, but I can imagine, that it can take a lot of time, especially while working 9-5.
Today I´ve been busy all day and I didn´t set up my priorities straight. It will be 11 pm in a while and I have just finished short 5k run with with pull ups on outdoor workout facility in freezing cold. It wasn´t anything of high intensity and it won´t push me somehow forward physically, but it has big benefit for me. I kept my word and I can trust myself more, since I didn´t break my promise to myself.

I would say, that if you have got bench press equipment in your apartment, it´s big enough. And I am curious what in your apartment has higher priority than bench press ?!
Actually that´s awesome and big advantage, that you have got bench press equipment at home. That means you don´t have to commute to gym and you will save plenty of time. One reason more to exercise.
On days, when you are really busy, you can entertain yourself with 10 minutes killing workout easily. 10 minutes of intenstive training is better than nothing. Don´t have 10 minutes? Just do as much push-ups as possible in 5 minutes.

As speaking about socializing, gym can actually be good place to socialize. I think it´s pretty easy to find there new friends if you are regular visitor.
BJJ could be good answer for getting into some social circle, it has amazing community and it´s really good sport for men.

The more I got into him, the more I found Dr. Peterson to be ultimately a pessimist. His philosophy ends up being “let’s survive” rather than “let’s thrive”.

When you’re drowning, it is kind of a raft that you can hold onto to get some stability. And you can live your whole life like that, just survivng. But that’s not really living in my opinion. It’s a copout, an escape from life, motivated by fear rather than love.

And Dr. Peterson himself lived his philosophy - he tried to escape suffering through benzos, and look where that got him.
I´ve never though about him like that. But I definitely understand, that he´s too pesimistic for somebody. But there are many men, who need to hear what he says. Otherwise he wouldn´t be so popular.
On my good days, I don´t have suffering on my mind, but sometimes, for some people, it life is really suffering. And that´s when he comes not with solution, but with hope, that life can still be meaningful.
I personally like this mind-roaming around the ideas of meaning and I found some of his ideas working for me.

It´s just a piece of a puzzle to understand human brain a little bit more. I don´t have to agree with everything he says and I don´t follow him as a prophet. And if I did, I would put myself into very bad position in life. But the same goes for any other author.

But as I said, I understand, that he´s "too much" for someone. Each brain consumes different type of information.

I don´t think that benzos addiction is necessarily his fault.
In previous post I wrote:
""All the books and "proven manuals" can give you a hint which way to go, but that doesn´t mean people, who wrote them are perfect and live perfect life - nobody does.""
 

Black_Dragon43

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Actually that´s awesome and big advantage, that you have got bench press equipment at home. That means you don´t have to commute to gym and you will save plenty of time. One reason more to exercise.
On days, when you are really busy, you can entertain yourself with 10 minutes killing workout easily. 10 minutes of intenstive training is better than nothing. Don´t have 10 minutes? Just do as much push-ups as possible in 5 minutes.
Actually I wanted to share this workout: Dumbbell Only Home Or Gym Full Body Workout

I also have my own home-made gym, and this workout only requires dumb-bells, a pull-up bar and a workout bench (and maybe some weight balls for abs… it helps to do abs with weights). I’ve been doing it for 12 weeks, and made serious muscle gains, with no workout supplements… just working hard 3 days per week. It takes me approx. 20min to finish a workout, so I’m fully done in 1hr/week. In 1 year of doing this from 0, I’m quite sure you’ll have the body of a Greek god, or close to it. Just need to keep growing the weights!
 
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Andreas Thiel

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I’ve been dealing with depression and low energy most of my life, and two books I’ve found to be helpful are “You are your own gym” by Mark Lauren and “The Miracle Morning” by Hal Elrod. Funnily enough Hal Elrod’s book is where I first heard about MJ and the Fastlane. Small world.
I have read both. Did body-weight exercises for a while and maybe I started into the day with more ... drive ... most days, but there were no effects strong enough to make a difference in how productive I could be after work. I tried working up towards one arm push ups and ignored a small nuisance in one arm that turned into an injury that lasted for more than 6 weeks. Currently I think I'd prefer to try the hardware approach with the big ones if I ever start doing a home workout: bench press, barbell rows, squats, pull-ups, military press, deadlifts.

"The Miracle Morning" came pretty close to actually killing me. I kept going to a darker and darker place without really realizing it and way a mess for quite a while. Had zero control over my thoughts or emotions at that point and was just lucky I had healthy habits in place. Won't poke anything resembling a 4am alarm with a ten foot pole. Found my sweetspot lies at going to bed around 10pm and waking up around 6am, which gives me two slots (45min and 1h) in the morning that I can use for planning. My body wants to wake up later, but that seems to be the sound compromise.
Shutting down and relaxing after work to collect energy for a strong finish for the day (ideally working on a business) seemed viable for a while, but I had a harder time falling asleep and paid a price the next day and if I kept it up it kept getting worse.
 
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Andreas Thiel

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Actually I wanted to share this workout: Dumbbell Only Home Or Gym Full Body Workout

I also have my own home-made gym, and this workout only requires dumb-bells, a pull-up bar and a workout bench (and maybe some weight balls for abs… it helps to do abs with weights). I’ve been doing it for 12 weeks, and made serious muscle gains, with no workout supplements… just working hard 3 days per week. It takes me approx. 20min to finish a workout, so I’m fully done in 1hr/week. In 1 year of doing this from 0, I’m quite sure you’ll have the body of a Greek god, or close to it. Just need to keep growing the weights!
Finished the book. I will probably go through the exercises and might post the results in my progress thread, but I fear I will have that strong deja vu feeling that kills much the belief that "it can be different this time".

Yes, I'd have to train that muscle of taking action through resistance, but I think I wrote that I will do that in probably around 5 posts in my time here.
I am starting to see one approach that might have some potential. I could take unpaid vacations ... either 1 week every 3 months or take one month off completely. I have spread out my regular vacations like that hoping that I could perform there, but I needed the time to recover. Could take four 2 week vacations if I add unpaid vacations.
Still, I feel like reserving that time it would be "events" and I would not really establish a process that feels like a process.

I think I wanted to have fun with it before and experiment without the pressure. Be goofy with it. The book reminded me of that as well. Not sure what happened to that plan. I think I just went into robot mode again.
 
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Andreas Thiel

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I would suggest reading Jordan Peterson. His first premise is, that the life actually really is deep suffering. But even such suffering can have meaning and you can make it better, so it´s actually bearable.
Have read 12 rules... but not maps of meaning (may have bought it at some point, though). Yeah, huge fan and infinite props that he has the guts to speak up at the first signs of compelled speech becoming legislation - because of his familiarity of how fascism develops - even though he knows the cost. True hero and of course his message resonated deeply.
I think different kinds of guides are required to get through bad times vs. enjoying good times. Kinda like the main message of "The hard thing about hard things".

EDIT: I´ve just realized that in Germany, one of the days around current date is actually the shortest in a year. Don´t fotget to supplement enough of Vitamin D! The psychical struggle without sunlight is real.
Noted
I love this thread, I am the perfect example of someone, who puts himself into boxes. If there was someone, who tried to show me the box and possibility of breaking it, I would argue and fight him/her to prove, that I will be forever stuck there, because that´s just how it is. What a stupid attitude.
There are few I am really struggling with right now, I will give myself a time and write them down next time.
WIll follow your progress. You don't sound like a lazy thinker, so you'll probably figure it out.
 
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tomzestatlu

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I totally feel all the boxes I put myself into, but when it comes to writing them down, I find it somehow difficult. But to be said, over past few years, I have already started to notice and destroy those boxes and I could say I somehow mentally got out of them. But on the other hand, they are still part of my personality.

1. My background prevents me from reaching any higher form of success
It was taken care of me, when I was younger and I didn´t grow up in any violent slum. Actually it was very peacefull place on this planet. But thanks to the fact, that closest people around me were very under-average and simple minded (but still good hearted), I never saw a bigger picture. Instead of setting priorities and pursuing them, I didn´t set andy direction and got myself into downward spiral of stupid actions and looked up to bad people.
Mindset shift: Over last few years I have already done some accomplishments, that many people can´t ( the most of people actually). At this moment I feel like I can achieve whatever I want to, the only requirement is to figure how.

2. I am not entrepeneur type
I have never met any entrepreneur in my youthood. In my family, when somebody talked about entrepreneurs, they were described like somebody from another planet, like somebody who have money (without questioning how did they get it and what they had to do for it - unless it was stealing). It was us and it was them and between our two worlds there was a thick wall, that can´t be climbed over.
Mindset shift: I am not an entrepreneur yet, but at this moment I already see it as necessary part of my journey.

3. I don´t have any skills
This sounds a little bit stupid. If somebody feels like he doesn´t have any skills, nothing stops him from getting them, logically. Given the fact, that I didn´t pursue any specialized field of education, I am not specialized in anything. I have got military education and I think, that I am able to deal with different "stuff", but not any particular skill.
Actually my strong side is that I have very wide spread of knowledge (a little bit of anything). At the same time, it is my disadvantage, because I don´t have any sort of secret niche, that could make me money and at the same time, I lack passion for one single area, that I could dig in.
Mindset shift: I choose to see this as an advantage. It´s being said, it´s better to be top 20% in 5 areas, than being top 1% in 1 area. And most importantly, everybody can get to top 20% just by his will, while to make it to top 1%, it must be natural talent.
 

Bigguns50

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Great thread!!

I recently decided to blow apart some of my own boxes. As @MJ DeMarco and others have said, it's about comfort. I'm no different in that it's nice to be comfortable which is why from time to time, I put myself in very uncomfortable situations, which helps me grow and be better.

This is from one of my journal entries from 1-4-2022. It was a "thinking day" for me.

Be MORE aggressive in business.
Work harder.
Be disruptive.
Break records.
Crush the competition.
Do something no one else does.
Play angry....in business.

This is a list of things I'm making happen.

My natural personality is laid-back and easygoing. However, sometimes, this just doesn't cut it in business. Business can be very tough.

So how did I make the switch?
Well, I'm very aggressive in the gym and when training in self-defense. This comes naturally. So when I'm in a business situation where I know I need to be more aggressive, stand my ground, demand certain things, etc., I simply remember how I feel, my emotions, when I'm training and bring those feelings up in this situation. My posture changes, my voice, tone, and language change. Pretty sure my facial gestures change as well.

There's a fine line and it's a bit of an art, between being aggressive and being a disrespectful A-hole. I'm never that.
 
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CuttingTraffic

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I used to put myself in about every box there is.
Worse yet I wasnt aware of it AT ALL.
Growing up I was never good at anything from sports and socializing to making money or even keep a job.

Looking back now a few years later I realize that all the issues that I was going through in my life were 1. Self-induced 2. stemming from ridiculously low self-esteem.
Instead of dealing with those issues I basically just used to ignore them, mostly blaming it on external causes.
Most important ones, top of my head would be:

1. I'm unathletic / I'll never get big and strong
It's true that for some reason, growing up I had a harder time than most my peers to do good at sports and bulk up.
Seeing them progress that much faster with often way less effort sent me on a downward spiral of even weaker results.
Then I changed my approach, my work ethic and my nutrition and went to a near 1200 lbs combined lift in the big three as well as training martial arts regularly, while being in great shape.

So just like people stuck in the slow lane never progressing, despite their honest efforts and hard work I was continuously hitting a wall because of inefficient methods and limiting beliefs --> The change was exclusively intrinsic.

2. I'll never be good at socializing and putting myself "out there"
Same underlying issue, different manifestation. Bad experiences, laid a bad foundation, leading to bad results.
Only once I grasped the concept that I create my reality through first setting my mind right I understood that I can basically have whatever I want.
Nowadays I love making new friends, going up to people to talk to them or just making the before much dreaded small talk with random people as I go about my day.

3. I'll never rise above my financial circumstances
Again, I come from relative poverty, grew up poor and led a life of financial deprivation myself.
Coupled with an already low self-esteem it took me until my early twenties to understand I'm the only thing standing in my way of accomplishing what I want in terms of reaching financial freedom and building the life I want.
While I am definitely not there yet I am on the best way and no longer have any doubt that It'll work out in the long run.

So at least for me personally, it all boils down to changing the perception I have of myself and thereby the belief in what I am able to accomplish.
Of course becoming successful in one domain definitely helps in strengthening that belief about any other task one sets out to do as you now have "hard proof" that you can do it.
 

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